This was a great conversation!! So thankful that doug stopped in and chatted with us!!! Looking forward to the next time!!!!! Make sure to watch the important info at the front and the back of the video!!!! Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!
As a marxist i feel like the thing we need is more non-marxists like you guys pushing the envelope. I'm much more interested in hearing people engage with reality and look to overcome it, than sectarians sit around in a branch meeting each week discussing why anarchists are the real problem and how to get students to pay more dues to the org. I literally remember one of these 'marxists' have a go at me for trying to recruit workers, telling me we need to 'get em while there young' and 'workers ask too many questions/the wrong questions'. Keep doing what your doing!
The working class as a politically organized body has disappeared. It was defeated. Obviously people still work, including everyone in my neighborhood.
@@sublationmedia it is no accident. They were in class as an organized entity has been defeated in the first world. What with all this right wing propaganda, I know I grew up with it right here in the Midwest.
Happy that you are having this conversation. It's late where I live now, so I am logging off but looking forward to watch it later. As for who you want to attract and who you don't cool that you make it clear but also idk if I am one of those people or not. I wish you well even if I disagree and will take what I consider valuable. Take care and keep it going
@@theory_underground Unfortunately no, they cancelled the pod last year to start “The Adam Friedland Show” talk show/podcast. Maybe see if you can get on there, would be hilarious 😂
Hey there, great convo. Have you guys done anything with Afro-pessimism lately? your intro, David, was very aligned with that material. I would love to see you engage with that... Jared Sexton, Fred Moten, Saidiya Hartman etc.
I tend to avoid anything race related because I get super triggered by anyone who wants to treat me "as" a white whatever. It pisses me off to no end. Same goes for feminism where I am "a man." Not to say there isn't important stuff going on "over there" but every time I've tried to engage with that stuff people "son" me or "white boy" me and I would prefer not to. (Which, of course, probably why universalists and class-related ppl are so over-represented on TU)
@@theory_underground ah, I wonder who you have been talking to... not my experience of my various interlocutors there... but I get it.... it's just that I don't think the left can ignore racial politics both in terms of critique and of insight .. nobody likes to be pigeon-hole though, to be sure.. Anyway maybe I can make some more substantive points here drawing on my readings and convos if I do a little work on this... I will ponder whether this is mine to do or not.... C
@@cleo8128Class is the root. I agree with that. But you can't ignore race. The invention of "whiteness" as currently experienced was largely invented in the 16th century. The form of class rule as we currently experience it, would not be possible without this "race" social construct.
... wow I've learned so much from you in this comment. After reading it again, I thought back to all the times I've seen you say stuff. Why do you so often come across like a Mean Girls character in the cafeteria? It's always some version of an eyeroll instead of something that engages at the level of reason, mind, you know, adult shit. I'm going to ask you to step up your level of engagement or you'll get banned in the near future. I couldn't give a shit less about this socialite leftism bullshit. Saying some shit like this would work if you were on a leftist's channel. But you're not. Learn to speak to people who don't share your incredibly niche and repellent beliefs, or kick rocks.
@@theory_underground you know reality is Marxist and we’re all learning every day, I appreciate your comments, even though you find me repellent, blah, blah, blah blah
@@theory_underground why do I come across as a mean girl hmmm, I am a communist with a real talent for getting to the point concisely, unlike yourself, but you still have time to prove yourselves as political theorists, I listen to you and your petty bourgeois effluvia quite closely
@@theory_underground of course you'd say caring about trans liberation is dumb, you're a transphobic grifter with a failed project. I can't wait til you're forced to go back to working at amazon where you belong.
@@theory_undergroundI've been a fan of Doug's for a few years now. Only discovered TU last week. Both awesome channels! That said, some of Doug's takes make me cringe hard! Since he's done such great work, I'm trying hard to understand, for example, his "security state" narrative. But it just fails to rise above the bottom of my list of concerns. I can't easily dismiss it either. So I keep listening. BTW, one of the things that annoys me about Doug is his over-stressing the fact of "being on the left" - "my position is to the left of yours". And he gets snippy in the comments if you question his position. Other than that, great work being done at Sublation! That's why I still listen. (ngl, I feel motivated to troll him sometimes) 😆 (too easy to do!) 🤣
@@rb5519 I stress being on the left because I think the majority of what goes on in the name of the left is profoundly conservative. I get snippy because I face a lot of non-criticism that strikes me as authoritarian. For example, "Doug's takes make me cring so hard." What is somebody supposed to make that comment except that, for whatever reason, you find yourself in disagreement. On the question of the security state not rising above the level of the bottom of your concerns. I really need to know why you'd say that. I can try to guess. I'd guess that maybe higher wages might be a more pressing concern, but really I can't say why without you saying why. The reason the expansion of the power of the security state is a concern for me is because, as a socialist, I see the aim of politics to be the creation of freedom from tyranny and the creation of a society where everyone can achieve their potential and pursue their own happiness. The extent to which we are controled by men with guns and the right to use violence, is the extent to which we are limited in our politics.
This was a great conversation!! So thankful that doug stopped in and chatted with us!!! Looking forward to the next time!!!!! Make sure to watch the important info at the front and the back of the video!!!! Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!
As a marxist i feel like the thing we need is more non-marxists like you guys pushing the envelope. I'm much more interested in hearing people engage with reality and look to overcome it, than sectarians sit around in a branch meeting each week discussing why anarchists are the real problem and how to get students to pay more dues to the org.
I literally remember one of these 'marxists' have a go at me for trying to recruit workers, telling me we need to 'get em while there young' and 'workers ask too many questions/the wrong questions'. Keep doing what your doing!
the young are the worst!!!! hahaha
I’ve never seen such sophistry Are you kidding? The working class is not disappeared. It only disappeared in your comfortable neighborhood.
The working class as a politically organized body has disappeared. It was defeated. Obviously people still work, including everyone in my neighborhood.
@@sublationmedia But only in the first world has this happened?
@@sublationmedia it is no accident. They were in class as an organized entity has been defeated in the first world. What with all this right wing propaganda, I know I grew up with it right here in the Midwest.
@@rballen420No. Not at all.
@@sublationmedia I finally figured out what your game is. It is an anti-Marxism.
Doug Lain is a pleasant and a sharp person. Glad you all had him on!! ❤
Yes he is. I wouldn’t put too much importance on his politics, though I might like to read one of his books.
My friend and I were having a conversation really similar to this one yesterday. Great ep.
Great content that you wouldn't find anywhere else
Happy that you are having this conversation. It's late where I live now, so I am logging off but looking forward to watch it later.
As for who you want to attract and who you don't cool that you make it clear but also idk if I am one of those people or not. I wish you well even if I disagree and will take what I consider valuable.
Take care and keep it going
Doug is supercool 🎉🎉🎉
my gut feeling was right about this Channel, this is why i follow!
Me too! My gut feeling is their politics is reactionary
@@rballen420 you are reactionary af or just very young
This is almost as good of a crossover as the time Doug went on cumtown (LEGENDARY)
dude how do I get on there... are they still going!?
@@theory_underground Unfortunately no, they cancelled the pod last year to start “The Adam Friedland Show” talk show/podcast. Maybe see if you can get on there, would be hilarious 😂
Wow great intro!
Great convo
OMG what a great poster ;)!
YOU DID AMAZING 🔥🔥🔥
Thug Lain is the cats pajamas!
@16:06 what is the LEFT / definition
You’re getting confused because you are listening to sublation media
Lots of gems in here for folks to make into viral clips
You guys should have Aaron Rabinowitz on the show.
Hey there, great convo. Have you guys done anything with Afro-pessimism lately? your intro, David, was very aligned with that material. I would love to see you engage with that... Jared Sexton, Fred Moten, Saidiya Hartman etc.
I tend to avoid anything race related because I get super triggered by anyone who wants to treat me "as" a white whatever. It pisses me off to no end. Same goes for feminism where I am "a man." Not to say there isn't important stuff going on "over there" but every time I've tried to engage with that stuff people "son" me or "white boy" me and I would prefer not to. (Which, of course, probably why universalists and class-related ppl are so over-represented on TU)
@@theory_underground ah, I wonder who you have been talking to... not my experience of my various interlocutors there... but I get it.... it's just that I don't think the left can ignore racial politics both in terms of critique and of insight .. nobody likes to be pigeon-hole though, to be sure.. Anyway maybe I can make some more substantive points here drawing on my readings and convos
if I do a little work on this... I will ponder whether this is mine to do or not.... C
@@cleo8128Class is the root. I agree with that. But you can't ignore race. The invention of "whiteness" as currently experienced was largely invented in the 16th century. The form of class rule as we currently experience it, would not be possible without this "race" social construct.
Oh my god Glen Greenwald?? lol!
... wow I've learned so much from you in this comment. After reading it again, I thought back to all the times I've seen you say stuff. Why do you so often come across like a Mean Girls character in the cafeteria? It's always some version of an eyeroll instead of something that engages at the level of reason, mind, you know, adult shit. I'm going to ask you to step up your level of engagement or you'll get banned in the near future. I couldn't give a shit less about this socialite leftism bullshit. Saying some shit like this would work if you were on a leftist's channel. But you're not. Learn to speak to people who don't share your incredibly niche and repellent beliefs, or kick rocks.
@@theory_underground wow you’re worse than Doug Lain! Almost….
@@theory_underground you know reality is Marxist and we’re all learning every day, I appreciate your comments, even though you find me repellent, blah, blah, blah blah
@@theory_underground why do I come across as a mean girl hmmm, I am a communist with a real talent for getting to the point concisely, unlike yourself, but you still have time to prove yourselves as political theorists, I listen to you and your petty bourgeois effluvia quite closely
@@theory_undergroundjudging by his videos, this dude is a mental case.
Russell Brand is a rappist
Duh- so late to this insight
Peep ‘your ideology is wrong’ by infrared on yt for why the political left/right is beta af
infrared is a tankie moron.
1:30 it means you’re a silly willy 😆
both lain and y'all are right wingers according to his definition of the left
Most people who spend too much time caring about whether they are left or not would call us something dumb.
@@theory_underground of course you'd say caring about trans liberation is dumb, you're a transphobic grifter with a failed project. I can't wait til you're forced to go back to working at amazon where you belong.
@@theory_underground Something a right winger would say.
@@theory_undergroundI've been a fan of Doug's for a few years now. Only discovered TU last week. Both awesome channels! That said, some of Doug's takes make me cringe hard! Since he's done such great work, I'm trying hard to understand, for example, his "security state" narrative. But it just fails to rise above the bottom of my list of concerns. I can't easily dismiss it either. So I keep listening. BTW, one of the things that annoys me about Doug is his over-stressing the fact of "being on the left" - "my position is to the left of yours". And he gets snippy in the comments if you question his position. Other than that, great work being done at Sublation! That's why I still listen. (ngl, I feel motivated to troll him sometimes) 😆 (too easy to do!) 🤣
@@rb5519 I stress being on the left because I think the majority of what goes on in the name of the left is profoundly conservative. I get snippy because I face a lot of non-criticism that strikes me as authoritarian. For example, "Doug's takes make me cring so hard." What is somebody supposed to make that comment except that, for whatever reason, you find yourself in disagreement.
On the question of the security state not rising above the level of the bottom of your concerns. I really need to know why you'd say that. I can try to guess. I'd guess that maybe higher wages might be a more pressing concern, but really I can't say why without you saying why.
The reason the expansion of the power of the security state is a concern for me is because, as a socialist, I see the aim of politics to be the creation of freedom from tyranny and the creation of a society where everyone can achieve their potential and pursue their own happiness. The extent to which we are controled by men with guns and the right to use violence, is the extent to which we are limited in our politics.