My favorite person outside of my family got a shout out on Stephen Colbert. Stay amazing Mr. Levin, Insha'Allah are going to get the noble prize, and your associates.
35:25 hold up someone needs to ask Michael about the "other ways", and what his facial expression implied. It's fine that it didn't get asked here because the rest of the conversation was also super interesting. That story/conversation among neurons Michael shared was so good. It was really cool to see these two combined together in this way.
What a beautiful interview. I feel like what Mike is helping a lot of us realize is that "there is no bottom" to Life: it's cognitive light cones all the way down.
Finally someone else talking about Boyd. The OODA loop comes from the context of survival (developed by a guy whose formal education was mostly in engineering, but also delved into physics and Chinese philosophy and military history) and that was abstracted into strategy theory, but it’s also a kind of theory of consciousness in its fullest conception. Most military teachers of maneuver warfare are unaware of this framing. I’ve been wanting to connect this language with TLC language for a long time. I think this is part of why I feel like I connect well to Jordan’s approach and way of speaking.
12:55 Jordan’s three embodiments: 1) Human indigenous group - the baseline (sports, limits of scale) Forking event 2) bureaucracies - institutional Forms (literacy? Propositional mediums?) scales more easily. Asymptotic limiting factors (technological Babel) 3) markets - scale arbitrarily (or in ways that are unable to be traced?) nothing is arbitrary, it’s just unnamed or inarticulable. He then says these arose in an evolution of conscious spiral of eras.
I was talking to the robot and ended up sharing OODA loop inadvertently while discussing the way to confront Chaos as a generalized integration of new information. The Observe step was moved to second (so it became Act Observe Orient Decide), and the act step was a homeostatic adversarial reaction to the introduction of chaos. Practically speaking, without action, a structure doesn't exist. I think it's the missing piece in the military version of the concept, and the reason they bias toward observe orient decide before action is an institutional bias. Likely, at different layers of analysis, the OODA loops is like singing in rounds. Act^1->Act^2Observe^1->Act^3Observe^2Orient^1->Act^4Observe^3Orient^2Decide^1. The observe step is the first-degree actions precipitated by whatever the initiator is, and decision is the cutoff point where the network freezes before conducting the next action--or at any rate, the inputs that decide the action are set and not alterable. The process I discussed (as summarized by the robot) was: 1. Adversarial Reaction Rooted in Self Purpose: This initial reaction is grounded in self-preservation, setting up the domain of chaos and framing it as either a threat or a non-threatening unknown. By immediately constraining inputs to maintain structure and homeostasis, your mind creates a defensive space where chaos can be evaluated from a secure standpoint. Constrained Focus: By limiting the inputs in the face of potential danger, you're ensuring that unnecessary or overwhelming information doesn’t interfere with the more essential task of survival or balance. This step is critical in triaging potential threats, allowing you to prioritize what matters most in the moment. 2. Effort and Activation Energy Purpose: After identifying the domain of the chaotic phenomenon, your brain measures the effort and energy required to engage with it. At this point, the emotional register-whether anger, fear, joy, or humility-signals the level of friction or resistance that the chaos poses to your existing structures. Energy Investment: The decision to integrate or dispense with chaos likely hinges on this measure. The emotional energy serves as both a guidepost and an indicator for how much focus and cognitive effort will be spent on making sense of the chaos. This process resembles triage, determining which stimuli deserve deeper attention and which can be dismissed or absorbed with minimal effort. 3. Mobility and Perspective Shift Purpose: Once the degree of activation energy is measured, you then explore mobility by comparing options and shifting perspectives. This is where the process of evaluative comparison takes place: weighing potential outcomes, assessing relative values, and figuring out what possibilities are available for engagement with the chaotic input. Flexible Adaptation: Your ability to shift perspectives at this stage gives you the flexibility to adapt to new information and potential paths. By evaluating different options, you are actively engaging in a fluid assessment that allows you to pivot depending on how chaos unfolds. 4. Temporary Freeze and Cascade of Actions Purpose: A temporary freeze follows, during which further evaluation pauses, and the chaotic input is converted into decisions and actions. This stage reflects a critical moment of synthesis, where the chaotic input has been understood well enough for you to take tangible steps-whether that’s through word choice, decisions, or physical actions. Action as Resolution: The cascade of decisions allows your various cognitive modules to coordinate and respond in a concerted effort, resulting in action. The "freeze" is like a momentary consolidation of insights before moving into the realm of action, where decisions are solidified into concrete behaviors. 5. Piecewise Adjustments and Fluid Reassessment Purpose: Finally, the process moves into a stage of piecewise adjustments, where actions and decisions are re-evaluated based on real-time feedback and evolving internal states. This allows for an ongoing calibration of your faculties and efforts, ensuring that the response to chaos remains effective as circumstances shift. Continual Reassessment: The moving target aspect of this stage is crucial-it reflects the recognition that situations are never static, and that flexibility is required to continuously adapt and readjust strategies. The ability to reassess, tweak, and modulate responses is what makes your process both robust and resilient in the face of chaotic influences. ---- 5 is a reflection of the fact that the locus of control is fluid, since cognition is multi-module and priority shifts underneath the narrating/communication agents (who are the ones that have the discussions).
Re collaboration, you can collaborate with your higher/greater self (a hyperobject) and when you dance it takes zero effort... because the dance dances you.
I would like to hit on the concepts over. The "collective state" example, since the memory contains no metadata it probably works like functional programming or most likely non symmetric storage. I don't like terms like "anon"izing memory. If a state is stored then there should be clear ways to decode that state. So are the cells stateless, stateful, parralel etc? Anyhow. We have been using reductive thinking for so long that such an example of combining goals never crossed my mind. Aristotles syllogisms come to mind. Cool. As far as buddhism, if we define "identity" as a repetitive pattern then we humans are reborn. You can deduce identity from reductive thinking. Emergent thinking vs reductive thinking. A hyperobject is part of the One/God/Universe whatever you wanna call it and so is a normal object. How you solve such a system is using probabilistic mutual information. So in case of cell memory we should use hyperobject memory to predict object goals etc.
@@WhiteStoneName You are a young version of me. As a Watcher, I am fond of you and your content. Not all chat and comments and YT are watched by me, though there is One who does. Embodiment / Incarnation riffing is what attracted both our attentions. But as per Jacob, men and women aren't exactly the same. In dharmic terms we are. The incarnation of Jesus is one thing, that of his mother Mary quite another.
Yes. This section is exactly why I feel that free exchange based on each one’s enlightened self-interest protects us from greed. A longer conversation, for sure. Maybe we can talk about this when we get together.
12:53 one strikes me as right brain centric (tribal model), one strikes me as left brain centric (bureaucratic model) and the third is emergent- the objective collective subjective emergence of markets and prices
My favorite person outside of my family got a shout out on Stephen Colbert.
Stay amazing Mr. Levin, Insha'Allah are going to get the noble prize, and your associates.
Great way to start a Thursday
35:25 hold up someone needs to ask Michael about the "other ways", and what his facial expression implied. It's fine that it didn't get asked here because the rest of the conversation was also super interesting. That story/conversation among neurons Michael shared was so good. It was really cool to see these two combined together in this way.
What a beautiful interview. I feel like what Mike is helping a lot of us realize is that "there is no bottom" to Life: it's cognitive light cones all the way down.
Finally someone else talking about Boyd. The OODA loop comes from the context of survival (developed by a guy whose formal education was mostly in engineering, but also delved into physics and Chinese philosophy and military history) and that was abstracted into strategy theory, but it’s also a kind of theory of consciousness in its fullest conception. Most military teachers of maneuver warfare are unaware of this framing. I’ve been wanting to connect this language with TLC language for a long time. I think this is part of why I feel like I connect well to Jordan’s approach and way of speaking.
OODA loops, delightful, another fascinating conversation Karen 🎁 thank you
Karen this is so wonderful. Thank you for this relational pairing. I’m so glad I got to see you face to face last weekend.
Killing it as always Karen🙌🙌
Karen, hope you had a good time at Northwestuary.
@@williambranch4283 Absolutely amazing! Glory all around.
Having an accelerated (both mind and heart) feeling as the conversation revs up. Wonderful!
12:55 Jordan’s three embodiments:
1) Human indigenous group - the baseline (sports, limits of scale)
Forking event
2) bureaucracies - institutional
Forms (literacy? Propositional mediums?) scales more easily. Asymptotic limiting factors (technological Babel)
3) markets - scale arbitrarily (or in ways that are unable to be traced?) nothing is arbitrary, it’s just unnamed or inarticulable.
He then says these arose in an evolution of conscious spiral of eras.
I was talking to the robot and ended up sharing OODA loop inadvertently while discussing the way to confront Chaos as a generalized integration of new information. The Observe step was moved to second (so it became Act Observe Orient Decide), and the act step was a homeostatic adversarial reaction to the introduction of chaos. Practically speaking, without action, a structure doesn't exist. I think it's the missing piece in the military version of the concept, and the reason they bias toward observe orient decide before action is an institutional bias. Likely, at different layers of analysis, the OODA loops is like singing in rounds. Act^1->Act^2Observe^1->Act^3Observe^2Orient^1->Act^4Observe^3Orient^2Decide^1. The observe step is the first-degree actions precipitated by whatever the initiator is, and decision is the cutoff point where the network freezes before conducting the next action--or at any rate, the inputs that decide the action are set and not alterable.
The process I discussed (as summarized by the robot) was:
1. Adversarial Reaction Rooted in Self
Purpose: This initial reaction is grounded in self-preservation, setting up the domain of chaos and framing it as either a threat or a non-threatening unknown. By immediately constraining inputs to maintain structure and homeostasis, your mind creates a defensive space where chaos can be evaluated from a secure standpoint.
Constrained Focus: By limiting the inputs in the face of potential danger, you're ensuring that unnecessary or overwhelming information doesn’t interfere with the more essential task of survival or balance. This step is critical in triaging potential threats, allowing you to prioritize what matters most in the moment.
2. Effort and Activation Energy
Purpose: After identifying the domain of the chaotic phenomenon, your brain measures the effort and energy required to engage with it. At this point, the emotional register-whether anger, fear, joy, or humility-signals the level of friction or resistance that the chaos poses to your existing structures.
Energy Investment: The decision to integrate or dispense with chaos likely hinges on this measure. The emotional energy serves as both a guidepost and an indicator for how much focus and cognitive effort will be spent on making sense of the chaos. This process resembles triage, determining which stimuli deserve deeper attention and which can be dismissed or absorbed with minimal effort.
3. Mobility and Perspective Shift
Purpose: Once the degree of activation energy is measured, you then explore mobility by comparing options and shifting perspectives. This is where the process of evaluative comparison takes place: weighing potential outcomes, assessing relative values, and figuring out what possibilities are available for engagement with the chaotic input.
Flexible Adaptation: Your ability to shift perspectives at this stage gives you the flexibility to adapt to new information and potential paths. By evaluating different options, you are actively engaging in a fluid assessment that allows you to pivot depending on how chaos unfolds.
4. Temporary Freeze and Cascade of Actions
Purpose: A temporary freeze follows, during which further evaluation pauses, and the chaotic input is converted into decisions and actions. This stage reflects a critical moment of synthesis, where the chaotic input has been understood well enough for you to take tangible steps-whether that’s through word choice, decisions, or physical actions.
Action as Resolution: The cascade of decisions allows your various cognitive modules to coordinate and respond in a concerted effort, resulting in action. The "freeze" is like a momentary consolidation of insights before moving into the realm of action, where decisions are solidified into concrete behaviors.
5. Piecewise Adjustments and Fluid Reassessment
Purpose: Finally, the process moves into a stage of piecewise adjustments, where actions and decisions are re-evaluated based on real-time feedback and evolving internal states. This allows for an ongoing calibration of your faculties and efforts, ensuring that the response to chaos remains effective as circumstances shift.
Continual Reassessment: The moving target aspect of this stage is crucial-it reflects the recognition that situations are never static, and that flexibility is required to continuously adapt and readjust strategies. The ability to reassess, tweak, and modulate responses is what makes your process both robust and resilient in the face of chaotic influences.
----
5 is a reflection of the fact that the locus of control is fluid, since cognition is multi-module and priority shifts underneath the narrating/communication agents (who are the ones that have the discussions).
@@cosmicmuffet1053 How much of this text is your and how much the robot’s?
Hardly distorted, but slowing the speed to 75% helps me better assimilate Michael and Jordan’s presented ideas
LOL. I was gonna make that suggestion in the description.
I took it ✌🏼🙏🏼
Re collaboration, you can collaborate with your higher/greater self (a hyperobject) and when you dance it takes zero effort... because the dance dances you.
Wow nice pairing
Check Thailand du Chardin, with the NOOSFERA concept
22:50 Rupert Sheldrake morphic fields.
I would like to hit on the concepts over. The "collective state" example, since the memory contains no metadata it probably works like functional programming or most likely non symmetric storage. I don't like terms like "anon"izing memory. If a state is stored then there should be clear ways to decode that state. So are the cells stateless, stateful, parralel etc? Anyhow. We have been using reductive thinking for so long that such an example of combining goals never crossed my mind. Aristotles syllogisms come to mind. Cool. As far as buddhism, if we define "identity" as a repetitive pattern then we humans are reborn. You can deduce identity from reductive thinking.
Emergent thinking vs reductive thinking. A hyperobject is part of the One/God/Universe whatever you wanna call it and so is a normal object. How you solve such a system is using probabilistic mutual information. So in case of cell memory we should use hyperobject memory to predict object goals etc.
A caterpillar metamorphosis is a power transformation of z.
Fabulously im-personal and scary.
Theilar de Chardin
Unintelligible.
Slow it down to 75% and it will make more sense:-)
1:12 “what have you gotten so familiar with that you discovered there’s no bottom.”
Yes! Everything.
The radical implications of the Incarnation™️
@@WhiteStoneName Even one verse of Scripture.
Russian Matryoshka doll. Women are more embodied than men.
@@williambranch4283 ok. Firstly, you are everywhere present, filling all comment threads. Secondly, what? Expand.
@@WhiteStoneName You are a young version of me. As a Watcher, I am fond of you and your content. Not all chat and comments and YT are watched by me, though there is One who does. Embodiment / Incarnation riffing is what attracted both our attentions. But as per Jacob, men and women aren't exactly the same. In dharmic terms we are. The incarnation of Jesus is one thing, that of his mother Mary quite another.
25:30 this is so fascinating
Yes. This section is exactly why I feel that free exchange based on each one’s enlightened self-interest protects us from greed. A longer conversation, for sure. Maybe we can talk about this when we get together.
12:53 one strikes me as right brain centric (tribal model), one strikes me as left brain centric (bureaucratic model) and the third is emergent- the objective collective subjective emergence of markets and prices
Bureaucracies are inward out, markets are outward in. Emergent, and then affect our behavior/decisions