is it worth it?
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2024
- there are so many reasons to not want the Toyota Mirai or any other hydrogen car for that matter, but there is some upside. I go through a financial perspective that me make the Mirai a bit more attractive.
#hydrogenstation #mirai
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If nothing else I've learned from these vids to 100% avoid hydrogen powered automobiles.
Damn 81% depreciation on the Mirai is crazy
it's the fuel card. once that's out, the price sky rockets.
It's the same with tesla
@@car-naught-bj5vywhat do you mean
You can buy a Model Y RWD for $25,000 or lease it for much less. End of story. None of those options are remotely close to just getting the Tesla. Even if you can’t charge at home a Tesla Model Y LR lease is still a better option.
Teslas are built like crap and more common than Honda civics in California.
Hi, I live in Irvine and I see a couple stations near Costa Mesa. Have you had experience at those places? It's not far from my house.
Camry gets free maintenance for the first 2 years.
I was going to leave that out, but yes you are right.
It costs me less than 1,5 € to do 100 km with my model 3, and the charge takes 4 seconds ie just the time to plug since most of the time I charge at home. But the worse is probably all the energy wasted with the Mirai, with the electrolysis, for the compression, by the pump, by the fuel cell, etc. At least at this location the hydrogen is produced on site so no need to move the hydrogen on long distance with big diesel trucks. I really don't understand the point, maybe just some green washing to be able to continue to sell "self charging" ICE cars. Will Toyota be the next Kodak ?
What happens if you put the wrong hydrogen grade in your tank will it lower your mileage until you refuel again
Will you swap to the CR-V FCeV in 2025?
also, I looked into fuel costs more, but I've hit a road block.
long story short there are only 3 possible sources for the cost increase left.
-cost of the starter product (water or natural gas)
-cost of the permits
-cost of the franchise fees
now the cost of the starter product doesn't seem to have changed that rapidly. if anything the cost of natural gas has gone down after the initial shock that the invasion of Ukraine caused.
that leave franchise and permits. I can't get access to permit costs because as a non-California resident their utilities department won't take my calls. So if you want to figure out if it's them someone who lives in California will have to make that call/email.
it's possible this also tied to a restructuring of tax breaks (see inflation reduction act) but I find that unlikely.
So if that last possible option is eliminated it means the only reason for the price increase is because the c-suites think they can get away with it.
the only hang up to this theory is that their quarterly reports don't line up with a huge increase in profits. It's possible they made the profit margins go away to avoid paying taxes, but I don't see where on the balance sheet it could have gone.
11:10 I actually would push back on that opinion. if you were taking both of those cars (the Altima and the Camry) to 200k miles, yes reliability would come into play.
At 30k miles, both cars are still well under warranty and if you keep up with the scheduled maintenance you should have no issues. I would also state, you will pay full price for the Toyota, no real way around that. For the Nissan, unless it's a hot model Nissan loves to give buyers a deal on their cars. especially after they have been on the market a bit, like the Altima. That's why they deprecate so fast, because no one pays full price for the car anyways unless they really don't know what they are doing.
This is driven by Plug Power selling lhy at $4 per kg and buying from Linde at $18 per kg. Plug is selling to Walmart and Amazon, and must keep price at $4 per kg to stay economically competitive against li ion forklifts. They basically are eating up all supply until Plugs new plants come on stream. The two lhy producers, Linde and Air Products are aware of this, and even more so after the bids to NASA in 2022. In Nov 2022, Linde bid $30+ per kg and Air Products bid $10. The following month, Dec 2022, Air Products was sole winner taking product at $22 per kg (as they know they are last supplier with capacity to sell). This is just oligopoly....as NASA used to only pay around $5 per kg.
@@caymans3410 so it is corporate greed like I thought. thank you for the info.
The high cost of hydrogen here in California is due to several reasons. Increase cost of feedstock, added expense due to use of higher cost renewable feedstock (40-100%), loss of LCFS credits, increase maintenance costs (due to immature station equipment which was not anticipated), increase labor costs to maintain the immature equipment, R&D expenses for True Zero who is developing new equipment...
@@bruhabox none of that adds up to a 300% increase. even if the power had doubled, and my references are correct, that only accounts for a 2% increase.
Best advice to get your MGPe Up...slowly get up to speed, ive reset my data and getting 85 mpge
Just curious whether you did an analysis comparing the Mirai vs a comparable EV (e.g. BZ4x, ID4, Tesla M3, etc)? Thanks.
the problem with EVs is that doing an analysis gets tricky quickly.
first off, good luck accurately predicting the deprecation of of any Tesla product. thanks to the rapid price adjustments it's a fools errand on a good day.
but let's rule that out, and instead just focus on running costs. the efficiency of a vehicle is pretty easy to come by if you just use the EPA estimates. good luck for real world numbers that will vary wildly based on climate and road conditions.
but assuming the EPA numbers it's still complicated because the price of electricity varies based on where you get it from. if it's a free perk at work, the cost is zero. the cost of electricity for filling up at home will vary based on location.
It will still be cheaper than gas and way cheaper than hydrogen, but by how much is hard to say. especially if your increased energy costs cause your rate to increase, which can happen.
if you are recharging via solar, you need to include the increased size of the solar array for your house and how often it's replaced. will still be less than fuel costs, but hitting that metric is that much harder.
and of course if you are refilling at a public charger, and don't have free charging, you are paying just below the cost of a similar ICE car per mile because they know that's what they can get away with charging.
@@car-naught-bj5vy Thanks. Is there a way to model out the inconvenience of hydrogen fueling in terms of time lost or additional range used to fuel up?
Definitely not worth it! I saw a 2021 white Mirai for sale near Diamond Bar by the original owner with 30K plus miles. The asking price is $9999. The sticker is almost $55K. A $45K depreciation within 3 years IS an absolute financial blowout! You can buy 2 Altimas.
A lot of the oil companies own hydrogen stations and natural gas that they convert to hydrogen lol it cost 1-3 dollars 💸 to produce and they sell it for 30 priceless lol 😂. Gave the oil companies a new monopoly. Epic
Your going to have to produce your own fuel ⛽️ lol 😂
So getting a used 2021 Mirai, with the 15000 hydrogen card is good for 3 years til gas car runs out.
I bought my 2 year old Mirai, certified, for 16.5K and got the $15K fuel card. After three years, if hydrogen is still too expensive, I'll sell for $1500 or trade into Toyota. Everyone is ignoring the car performance. This is one sweet ride. So plush with all the electronic known to the car industry.
What a joke. Mirai will never compete with a ev car. Stay away from the mirai as it will be worthless in 1 year. Wait till shell closes all the hydrogen fill up stations in cali and u will have a worthless paper weight.
Shell's are already gone. They were only about 10% of the stations. Though I would only lease, not buy a Hydrogen car. So then you essentially get free fuel during the lease, and it's not your problem at the end of lease.
It's a neutral evaluation, this is hardly trying hard to sell people on a Mirai or argue they're the future. I don't even think hydrogen cars have a future, but it's hard to argue with the economics in this instance (although it obviously doesn't make sense economically for Toyota), as Toyota is almost giving them away and with free fuel, so for someone that lives in California, close to several stations, and either doesn't depend on it or has a second car then it can make sense. Also the Shell stations have been out of action for months, all Shell did recently was make it official.
@@JoshuaStringfellow1 and A hydrogen car is just a ev with extra steps you have a small battery and 3 massive tanks which makes the storage capacity terrible just to go 300 miles while you Can catch the same range with a ev with a bigger battery and infinitely more space the only thing hydrogen has over bevs is refueling time😂
@@mcsike7264 yeah not disputing any of that (I even said hydrogen cars don’t have a future), but most automakers aren’t selling BEVs with $20k off and $15k fuel. On the top spec they’re even offering a $40k rebate + $15k fuel, it’s bananas.
@@JoshuaStringfellow1 ya i much rather have a bev than a hydrogen car Toyota is wasting money I don't even think they are putting much money into hydrogen
On my mirai I get about 320 to 330 and i average around 63
I’d get one just to throw in a 2jz and drift it 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
hyper consumerism at its finest, only reason mirai is viable is because of the fuel card and 17k off it. If you run the car past 3 years its a money sink of untold proportions, so it is terrible for the environment in every aspect lmao. idk why you wouldn't just buy a BEV since its comparable to a lot of the other options price wise and you can actually run it for more then 3 years.
What we need are plug-in hybrid hydrogen vehicles. Those could be plugged in at home to charge for local city drives, removing the need to take it far to a hydrogen station, and be filled with hydrogen for longer drives. Best of both worlds (low refuel times + convenience of EVs).
A hydrogen car is just a ev with extra steps you have a small battery and 3 massive tanks which makes the storage capacity terrible just to go 300 miles while you Can catch the same range with a ev with a bigger battery and infinitely more space the only thing hydrogen has over bevs is refueling time😂
@@mcsike7264 The goal isn't about adding range, but rather convenience. Plug-in hybrid vehicles are just like normal hybrids, except the batteries are a few times larger and can be charged from an external source (e.g., a home charger).
If you notice in his videos, he has to take it to a hydrogen station just to be able to drive it at all, even if he's only using it for local city drives. On the other hand, the ability to plug it in and charge makes those local drives more convenient while still providing the low refuel time for longer drives.
@@gparyani you can just charge your every at home even if its just from a wall out let sure it would take ages but better than nothing also hydrogen cars have less space by nature BC you need those big tanks to store the hydrogen not like a event with the batteries on the floor
I have good news, honda just announced just that. 20+ miles of plug in battery range, and like 200ish miles of hydrogen range.
That said, I wonder how much that's valuable since evs are going to be better for road trips (since you can actually leave california) and while ev charging js still slower, only takes abt 15 mins to add 100+ miles, and the biggest appeal of hydrogen cars has mostly been moot since evs now sometimes get more range than hydrogen
@@sahitdodda5046 Yep, the advent of 800-volt architectures in EVs has made the refueling time moot.
#MikeCopeland 's V8 LS Engine Fuel injection with hydrogen. Same combustible engine with the power and rumble without using gas.
engineering explained did a great break down of this, but without a fuel cell hydrogen gets crazy impractical fast.
the minimum cast increase over the Mirai would be a minimum of three fold. it would also need an absolutely huge tank to go any distance even if the tank contains liquid hydrogen.
So you can get 20 miles per kg? What a stupid idea.
I can tell your very rich because your throwing away money to use a useless vehicle.
Not throwing shade. I respect it but I wouldn’t do it
Biz owners I know lease cars like theses for fun & tax reasons, because in 3 yrs or so they expect to get something else. Most non biz owners I know who have a pretty decent/good job buy cars like this (or Teslas) trying to figure out how to be rich.
Learn how to spell.