Are Bullshots Illegal?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Why don't games ever look like their ads anymore? Because nothing looks like their ads anymore.
This video uses music from audiomicro.com
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Copyright: Wow, imagine if there was a single field of modern law that was more fucked-up, unintuitive, oft vague and ass-backwards than I am.
Advertising: Hold up I got you fam
Taxation: Let me get in on this.
PoliteTimesplitter
PoliteTimesplitter Copyright has been helpful in the past at times,
but it's flawed system needs reform, especially in the new age of technology,
an age law barely updated for in general.
KeinZantezuken He is talking about advertisement laws ya dimwit.
KeinZantezuken
The comment's implied context were *fields* of modern law.
You missed the point entirely. This is reading comprehension 101.
Makes me feel bad for the poor devs that can't afford to get their trailers touched-up to look unrealistically beautiful, or the poor devs that actually spent effort to make their game look incredible, but whose trailers aren't believed...
Has there been a case of that? Real trailers that weren't believed?
Shadow Warrior 2 looks extremely close to, if not the same as, it's trailers in game on max settings.
Not explicitly, but when you look at new trailers these days you're going to be more critical, even if later on it turns out the game lives up to the trailer
Actually it makes me really sad thinking back to Fallout 4 and how people were complaining about how bad the graphics looked when it was revealed at E3. And then the game came out and the reason that the game looked "bad" at E3 was because Bethesda didn't bullshot us. The game they released looked the same as the game they showed at E3. And most gamers shat on them for it.
Basically the lesson for game publishers and advertisers to take from that is "better to bullshot and be shat on _after_ we've already sold the product than to be honest and be shat on before we've sold anything". Thanks a *ton* for that, people who shat on Bethesda for providing honest footage of Fallout 4.
to be fair, Fallout 4 looks pretty bad even by non-bullshot standards
If war can have a set of moral and ethical guidelines,
business and marketing certainly should too.
that imply's that Country's actually follow war crime laws
^
hello mr communist
And we all know the U.S. is really really really good at not committing any war crimes.
Are you seriously justifying war crimes mate? With the argument that "shit happens" and "well he did it too". What the hell man.
4:09 for noodles shot.
Thank you
Are Noodle Shots Illegal?
(yes)
I like the mileage he's getting out of that footage.
As soon as I saw it I got super excited. I live for the noodle shot.
I hope it stays forever
Great, now I hate Gearbox again.
They are pieces of shit. They lied even about Borderlands 1. They said it would have four player split screen, but quickly backtracked on that.
If you ever stopped hating Gearbox, then you're doing something wrong.
i hate them all of the time
And not say 2013 when Colonial Marines came out? Randy's antics were already covered by Jim Sterling, who was 3-feet away from Randy when interviewing him about the game. Randy lied directly to Jim's face, which is why he has this extra-edge against Prickford.
Crew Glove most people pity them now
the morale of the story.....
STOP PRE-ORDERS. Wait for reviews.
No reanonable customer woule believe you
we're fucked.
What if the reviewers are lying as well?
Particularly when a game development team is new or does not have a good track record.
Wait for a dozen reviews or so, that should be enough to eliminate any outliers. If you think dozens of reviewers are all lying and all in the same way then the chance is much higher that you're the outlier.
Dis gon' be good.
*after watching* Nevermind. It was very depressing actually.
Welcome to the wonders of modern Capitalism! Enjoy your stay! (as long as you keep paying for it)
You can also just wait to buy it. I haven't bought a bad game in over 12 years, because I don't buy them on release. Patience.
On the plus side, I feel a little more justified in my continued hatred for SEGA, Gearbox, Randy Pitchford, and Aliens Colonial Marines. Which admittedly is a very very small plus amidst a sea of huge negatives that is indeed very depressing.
" It take skills to troll " -Māris Suipe
^
Never preorder. This is no longer a matter of personal choice. The preorder business model is ruining gaming, and by supporting it, you're affecting everyone. Thanks to it, games can break even before the first reviews come out. Companies know they can rely entirely on hype and false promises. Destiny, Watch_Dogs and No Man's Sky were financial successes, despite being widely considered disappointments, because of huge preorder and first week numbers. So please, just wait a few days and only give the devs your money once they prove they deserve it.
My work colleague said her bf had payed for some early release bullshit on BF1.
I found it hard find a polite way of telling her guys like him are the reason gaming is in the toilet right now.
I've only preordered an amiibo, though a plastic figure likely doesn't count.
But this is incredibly true. No matter how enticing the package is, don't preorder until a game has convinced your money with either hands on gameplay or the thoughts of others.
If the game has yet to, you know something is wrong.
I constantly regret having even bought Dragonball Xenoverse, let alone preordering it. Way more boring than I ever expected it to be, and practically nobody played it... >_>
Wasted my fucking $50 steam card that I got for christmas on it, too. xD
I'm right there with you. I fell for the No Man's Sky hype. I fell for it HARD. And that was after years of telling people that preordering games only lead to more and more half finished, bogus titles being released for full price.
I have learned my lesson, and shall never preorder again.
Is it the same when you're looking at a game like Battlefield? The more recent additions to those games usually have Alphas/Betas which don't really do a horrible job at all at showing what you'll be getting on release.
They're only shooting themselves in the foot. As George said, consumer confidence is at an all-time low. The general consensus with each new hype campaign seems to be a collective, "Yeah, right. Here we go again..." Then what will the do when nobody rushes out to buy their games, no matter how much they hype it? Those juicy pre-order dollars will vanish. Everybody will take the wait-and-see approach and only buy the game after they've seen their favourite reviewers try it out after launch. Game devs will be forced to be 100% honest!
Oh, wait. I forgot. People are stupid.
People will ALWAYS pre-order and hype stuff. That is the sad truth. But you are right, with each Arkham Knight and No Mans Sky the market will be less and less enthusiastic about game trailers and such
Cancerous hype culture will NEVER die. Look at all the madness going on right now over the new trailers for The Star Wars Spinoff movie. The world will always have an endless supply of retards.........
Its a little disingenuous to just blame it on "people are stupid". Yes there are some people who legitimately can't think for themselves. Who will buy whatever the trendiest flashiest thing at the time is. However, the real reason that this will never fail to earn money is because for every person who has been mislead too many times and has lost all confidence in advertisement; There is a kid waiting for his turn to be disappointed and ripped off. It's a never ending cycle where you just get more bitter and suspicious the older you get, but you are replaced by some naive kid somewhere who will rush out to buy the next scam being produced.
That's why I fucking hate when people go "You don't know how the game plays, just shut up and wait for the game to come out."
Because by then the companies have made their money and it's far too late to damage their wallets when they make most of their sales on Day 1. You have to warn people of potential bullshit before they're allowed to get their money, standing back and letting idiots buy games in droves is NEVER EVER EVER going to work as was clearly shown with NMS recently.
Agreed it's a self regulating system, its just a shame some people get duped in the transition periods.
solution: Stop preordering games. Nothing apart from limited editions sell out anymore. This goes double for people who preorder digital games.
Dont even get me started on people that preorder digital games.......
At least we can get a refund on Steam if the game sucks.
Law's in Germany are much tighter about that. Game Ads always come with the disclaimer "Not actual gameplay footage". That's especially mandatory over here.
Doesn't matter when they butcher the games anyway.
Germany also is a police state. They suppress free speech so hard it hurts Hitler in hell.
Adam Frisk lol
+Adam Frisk
Kann ich bestätigen.
I can actually confirm this lol - I'm german.
uezs You have my sympathies.
I did a video on bullshots from games from the '80s where they disguised drawings as screenshots. Also the publisher's responses.
So this thing has been going on literally since the beginning of advertised gaming.
darkrage6
Ha, gaming has always been shit. It's Just people with rose tinted specticles seem to assume it were better.
Just looking at magazines of the time gives you proper context.
Back then internet and smartphones weren't compering for our attention span.
Ya that video you did on driver 3 was relatively eye opening. Just because I grew up in that age, and knew shady shit was happening, but had no concept of just how deep the deception went.
I mean when you start with fabio on the cover of deadly towers I suppose a crooked marketing system is ensured from the start.
Larry Bundy Jr I swear you are on every single UA-cam video.
YOU SHILL!!
jk I love you Larry.
I run by a simple preconception: All advertisement is false.
Mental Gear If only more people understood this.
I think dishonest advertising for fast food and dishonest advertising for games are very different things. Fast food places doll up their food to make it look appetizing, but there are so many factors to consider going into the making of the burger or food (are the buns squished? Who's making the burger? What shape is the lettuce?) that you can pretty much expect that your burger will look different than the one being showcased. Barring console limitations (or PC limitations because of shit ports), every person who buys a video game will receive the exact same game with the exact same content as everybody else, no matter what store you buy it from., and it will look exactly the same on your console as anybody else's console. Games that have gameplay that looks different from CG is totally obvious to anybody with half a brain, even most consumers, and shouldn't be illegal. Games where they show off "Real gameplay running on PS4 Hardware" that looks amazing and is slowly downgraded to shit without a press release or any other information should be cause for legal action.
the noodle bowl gets me EVERY TIME
But why noodle bowl?
God fucking damnit why does he even keep doing it
I don't blame advertisers. They've always been at war with consumers, trying to fool us into spending money. It's never-ending psychological warfare with few casualties.
I blame the platforms that legitimize this kind of advertising, namely E3 and IGN, that are more interested in selling games than showing us what they really are.
Ì'm still not over that Dark Souls 2 massive graphic downgrade that came out of nowhere.
Yeah it's true that a lot of the places were lighter than the ads said they were going to be, at the same time it's not nearly as bad as other developers
What dude? Just pay $60 again for the same game twice so you can get the graphics you were promised!
iroveashe SOTFS doesn't even come close to having the trailer graphics. That lightining and post processing were in another level, just look for some video comparisons in youtube...
Meh the only thing in the ads for DS2 that really got me was how utterly useless the torch system was.
Kleizar I like how the spiders avoid you if you have a torch lit, but that's the only good thing about that. There is no completely dark area like Tomb of Giants from DS1.
DS3 also doesn't have a pitch black area and that was a great dissapointment for me.
In fact, I have that your character fucking glows in the dark like in Demon's Souls (but at least here it had an explanation, the item you carry in your belt).
Friendly reminder: Watch_Dogs also broke the record for the biggest first day sales of a Ubisoft game, and became the biggest launch of a new IP ever in the United Kingdom at the time.
That's the power of marketing.
i hope you're joking
Simple solution that I recommend to everyone: "Fuck pre-orders for anything not a niche product." That new Call of Battlecraft? There will be a million copies out on launch day, and if you miss it at the store, fuck it, you can just download it.
HibHab69 this. also, I simply don't understand preordering digitally. i mean shit, it's not like their going to run out of data.
***** The only thing that you should remotely consider getting pre-ordered is something nigh-guaranteed hard to get later if you're interested in it. I'm talking about the niche weeaboo games like the Hatsune Mikus, Dagaropas, weird Vita sh*t etc. because you know they might not be shipping many of those. I mean who the F--K is lining up to buy Corpse Party on 3DS? Nobody! But CoD? Battlefield? Those will be shipped in high initial numbers AND likely will be restocked. Even then, you can still get them digital, this advice is just for people who want physical.
Never. Pre-Order Any. Game. Ever.
I'll only pre-order something if I know that I have to play it regardless of reviews. For example, I pre-ordered MGSV because I'm a huge MGS fan and I know that I had to experience the game for myself and form my own opinion regardless of the final product.
That was depressing AF
just remember the ramen clip and that gorge loves you.
I don't know, he didn't say it this time. Now I have (even more) trust issues.
No, it's ok. Don't preorder, wait for release. If somebody is REALLY trying to hype you - wait for sale. It's just videogames, don't get upset if things are not going your way. You owe nothing to the corporations.
Chris K. Yeah it was
I will never trust a trailer again. If anything, now knowing that false advertising is completely legal, I'm more inclined to trust prerendered trailers than gameplay trailers, because with the former, you KNOW for sure that the whole thing tells you nothing about the game, whereas gameplay trailers are allowed to deceive.
Much like Totalbiscuit, Jim Sterling, Super Bunny Hop, and pretty much any Serious Game Critic has said...
STOP PRE-ORDERING AND BUYING GAMES BASED ENTIRELY ON CLEVER MARKETING GIMMICKS!!
finally. a video title in the form of the question that's up front about the conclusion. not wasting my time in satisfying my curiosity, and still providing something great if I want to stick around.
I love how the noodle bowl is a running joke now
I want George to sneak the noodle bowl discreetly into every single video for the rest of his career. It'll be like Where's Wally in the internet age.
The freaking ramen clip is like the Stan Lee of George's videos!
George, I really hope your plan is to silently put the animatronic noodles into every video
Depressing... but informative! Thanks, George.
that is the george experience!
But I came to this channel to watch bunnies hopping. I feel duped!
Games are art, and since deception is a valid form of artistic expression it's protected. For instance look at MGS2. The entire ad campaign prior to release was a big lie. The implication was that you would play as Solid Snake. In fact the character only appeared to by Solid Snake for a tiny period and it turned out that even that was a simulation and for the rest of the game you played as Raiden.
There is no question that there was an intention to deceive (indeed Kojima admitted as much) but he believed that making people think they were going to play as one character when they actually played as another made the game better. A lot of fans were annoyed but they certainly had no legal recourse to do anything about it.
When MGS2 came out the preordering bullshit didn't exist like it does today. MGS2 used deception as a means to express an idea through expectations and through gameplay. That is different from using deception to cash in on hype and preorders.
Yup, but I think that the law has an ethical obligation to discern the intent of the deception. Was it to profit or was it for art's sake? Muddying the waters is the fact that the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Probably impractical to do, but I think that would be ideal.
Personally, I think anybody that thinks MGS2 is just as liable as NMS or Aliens would've gotten instantly laughed out of court. Other than Snake's roll becoming a cartwheel for Raiden, the gameplay is 100% identical across the two characters, it's only false advertisement as far as what people assumed the story was about.
*One playable character* is far less of an issue than something that screws over the appeal of the entire *game* portion of your game, like Xenomorphs that don't know they can use walls/ceilings or hyping up several features that don't actually exist in NMS.
Hell, as far as MGS2's direct advertisement: It never lied to you, it only showed what was definitely Snake-controlled.
It was a deception regarding the plot of the game, not its gameplay or graphics.
Except you did get to play as Solid Snake in MGS2.
And as Raiden also.
It may not be illegal, but Doesn't make it right.
like marrying your cousin
Great example
False advertising should be ILLEGAL. Remember: the keyword is "illegal".
This is why i love superbunnyhop
And the noodle shot continues lol it better be forever, it is your new mascot at this point
That's why i never buy a game on release day.
Utube Viewer agree, and no preorder
Oh and that too :)
Utube Viewer I don’t buy for at least a year. Since I play all games a year late, I get a steady stream of games that are detached from hype and have plenty of reviews and gameplay available.
@@bensosnowski1128 Same I even wait for sales, but you forgot that they are also patched and actually work or you know what issues they do have.
clmBerserker true. It’s saved me money many times, from not buying an overhyped game that doesn’t work
"Reasonable person" is a commonly used legal standard though.
Not to mention the word "reasonable" itself. Reasonable doubt, reasonable suspicion, reasonable reliance...
340Hz Yeah it's a staple term of art. I know it seems unnecessarily vague to the layperson, but that's kinda how law works. It's not a science, it relies on contextual interpretation. Saying that "reasonable" is a terrible standard just seems silly to me.
I guess it might have more to do with what defines the reasonable person. Admittedly you could argue that the people that bought into Aliens Colonial Marines were the extreme and unreasonable people but they sold 1.31 million which was enough to be one of Sega's best-selling games of that financial year.
And yeah, you are correct that reasonable is a commonly used term in law.
Does that mean that most people who play vidya games are unreasonable people? :(
I remember that in the 90s this was already a topic in gaming magazines, where screenshots got edited to look entirely different. Just that back then, you didn't have the Internet to get a second chance. You went by the stuff the marketing told you.
And this is why you shouldn't pre-order.
I love this kind of materials from you George. You tackle on issues that may not get a large amount of views, but are way more important than most game related videos out there. For that, you have my respect.
"The market is fair and does its job"
Battleborn agrees
*I blame the people themselves. If you aren't smart enough to realize that a brand new and unproven studio with like 10 employees cannot possibly make "the greatest open world game ever!" then you deserve to be duped. Have you seen the credit roll for a game like, i don't know, The Last of Us for example? How many 100's and 100's of people it takes to make a game like that? And people thought Hello Games was going to make some super deep, mind-blowing video game???*
That's a bold statement
FaceRip well tbh tLoU is pretty bad
FaceRip I was thinking the same thing when they first announced No Man Sky. It was being made by some indie studio with no prior releases, it was never going to have the polish or amount of content as a high quality AAA game like The Last of Us or GTA 5
+Krombopulos Michael Hello Games are the ones behind the decent Joe Danger games. But compare that with No Man's Sky in terms of scale and ambition and you'll quickly see the absolute massive disparity between them.
Cough Hellblade cough
Theres an easy solution to this. Don't buy games on launch.
People say "being able to play games on day one" Is a HUGE pro for consoles. Even though they still all launch broken, but on PC they don't start at all sometimes but IMO that's not that much better than being really shit.
I agree with that, but it's hard that the majority of people take care in that way. Mainly because the marketing is very focused in making people to pre order or to buy the most recent games.
The game journalists and even the independent reviewers are asked to talk always about the recent releases or the upcoming games, it's not surprise that most of the games are forgotten quickly and that's a motivation for the companies to focus all their marketing before the game launch.
It's like a vicious circle. Maybe with so many recent launch failures the circle starts to break, but just maybe.
Thanks a lot for the video George!
For me, fighting marketing has always been about avoiding it. We like to pretend that it does not influence us, that we are smarter than that, but we are just lying to ourselves. The only really effective way to avoid being manipulated by marketing is to stop exposing yourself to it. Even if bullshots were illegal they would find something else, marketing IS about misleading the consumer.
In the case of video games, I think we should avoid "information" about unreleased titles altogether, no trailers, no screenshots, no interviews, nothing. And I think games journalism should reflect on that too and just refuse to report on unreleased games. Really, why do we even need to know about games before their release date?
Treating the customers like trash has lead to a surge in PC popularity. Perhaps if you want a successful industry you might want to increase value instead of producing hot air and fluff.
It's not only that. AAA gaming is inherently a polished turd.
You can't take risks and do anything interesting or innovative; you can't have a weird difficulty curve; you can't afford to appeal only to people who know how to play games and have decent hand-eye coordination. It must be dumbed down to all hell and appeal to everyone.
On PC, there are no quality controls and no gate keeper. A majority of the best PC games come from modders, mappers and tinkerers. There are few obstacles for a tiny studios operating out of a bed room to make and sell a game; it only has to be good to sell.
The response from consoles has been to let themselves be dragged continuously, year after year, in the direction of being a small pre-built PC optimized for gaming; less and less distinct from an actual PC.
A game like Kerbal space programme or something will still start life on PC, but it is now possible with relatively little pain to port it over because the hardware and distribution mechanisms are getting more and more similar.
You realize that ALL console games have DRM right?
darkrage6 and you should express your dislike of that kind of practice by not supporting those developers that use those drms. Buying the same game on console gives the developer just as much money as buying it on pc, and most times more. So you solve nothing by avoiding pc releases. PC itself doesnt magically have drm on games, the developers put them there. Punish them instead of acting like it is the platforms fault.
to be honest, bullshot is more prevalent in early access PC games than anywhere else.
its a shame since it didn't always use to be like that.
i get a different type of excited feeling when a super bunnyhop vid is uploaded. keep up the good work
Fucking Gearbox man. Worst developer of the last ten years.
I betcha Gearbox is full of some wonderful, cheerful and genuinely great people. It's Randy Pitchford that's the asshole.
the only good game they ever made is brothers in arms
the rest is garbage
at least gearbox didt try and sew people for not liking there games
TheSharpmarksman I'd argue Battleborn, but neither of us played it, because that would imply the game sold more than 0 copies.
darkrage6 Calm down m8. i really really like Brothers in Arms, Duke Nukem and Alien games. You can see why they'd make me upset. Next to that, i also really, really hate Borederlands.
Oh are we done with George's wild Japan adventures already? sad times.
look up his podcast where he tells a cafe maid story.
I know. I was a bit uninterested for a bit.
What's the name of it?
Caio Braga TOVG Podcast
Now we really are in sad times :(
the only way to avoid any of this is to go on a complete shutdown from trailers and press conferences until the game is out.
Well, you can watch all of that... just don't believe any of it until the real game is out and has been tested by the crowd. And just don't buy Ubi Soft games, period, they always produce bullshit trailers for E3 and are a scummy company anyway. If i buy Ubi Soft games it is for two fiddy on a Steam sale ;P
I think Fallout 4 was a very good compromise considering they only showed it until after it was completed meaning that from perspective there was little to no advertising for the game that was actually misleading or dishonest.
ZeroB4NG I dont buy on day 1 anymore nether do i preorder. so im safe but still a lot of people dont do that. patiences gets you the best deals on games these days. i mean im still buying games that have been released last year that are dirt cheap now after only 1 year.
Rock Steel agreed. here is what weve got do you like it or not. that apporach is probably the most honest way you can get.
I'd go you one better: Assume that EVERY trailer and conference is a complete LIE, and that NOTHING that you see or hear will be present in the finished product. Believe absolutely nothing except for the opinion of a reviewer (or reviewers) you trust AFTER retail release. This, of course, requires that you DO NOT preorder.
I'm so glad that you took a vacation because every video you've made since you got back had been journalistic gold
I got my George socks in the mail today and they were a different shade of blue than what was advertised. I'm tremendously disappointed and I'm going to demand a refund, file a class action lawsuit, and made a video comparing the advertised socks to the pair I have set to the Jurassic park theme played on a kazoo.
Ryan Gates wut
I appreciate that your videos can always be watched with no visuals. I like to watch your content before I go to sleep so thank you for that :)
LOL that scene from Falling Down
She doesn't like the special sauce rick.
My god, thank you soooooooo much for this video George. I want this issue into more people's attention but I have no way of bringing it. Thanks.
Basically, the golden rule is not to trust a single fucking thing that's said or shown for any game pre release.
So many people in the comments acting like people "deserve to be duped" by false advertisements. Not a shred of compassion or understanding of the issue.
Nobody deserves to be lied to. Not everybody knows the development history that goes into games, and lest we forget, consoles sell in the tens of millions, not the thousands. 75% of all US households have a computer in them with broadband internet. This is mainstream consumer culture and thus will attract a large amount of the laymen -- people who don't watch E3, don't read game publications, don't know anything about how niche or mainstream a title is... etc, etc.
George stated it clearly -- Super Bunnyhop regulars aren't your average, everyday consumer. If every Super Bunnyhop subscriber owned a Wii U, it'd be 0.01% of the total market. Informed consumers are a drop in the bucket of this capitalist machine. So chances are you're more informed. But don't let that give you a big head.
Claiming that people deserve to be tricked by deliberately misleading advertisements is just heartless and helps nobody. Despite your cynicism, you're just letting the market continue in its status quo, while getting a laugh at people you've deemed stupid.
Succ Queen Amber the only thing that pisses me off more than today's lying games industry are the morons that have the attitude you just described.
A fool and his money are soon parted. And they DO deserve to be. Period. I have no sympathy for people that can't be bothered to inform themselves and expect others to do it for them. No, no I don't have a shred or compassion or understanding for such people. People should not be insulated by the government, or anyone else, from the consequences of their own bad decisions because they can't be bothered to inform themselves.
Troodon wow that's edgy.
@@troodon1096 I'm sure you feel very edgy and cool for being better than the stupid people, but the fact remains that the idiocy you're peddling directly rewards companies for being good liars and creates horrific markets for everyone.
i seriously hope that noodle clip is in every video from now on. people will be able to distinguish george's videos into two different eras: pre-noodle and post-noodle era
Everyone was looking at that criptic ramen shot, but my eyes were glued to the random Brazilian ham ad George chose to make his point.
I wonder what Mr. Pitchford thinks of "the market" when seeing Battleborn sales numbers...
This is why we should all stop pre-ordering video games.
So basically, fuck legal loopholes and Gearbox.
Thank you for your honest work in gaming journalism.
I know this is completely off topic and might annoy bunnyhop but I really want more critical close ups on the metal gear series. sorry mr. hop lol
Don't hold your breath. He really dislikes MGS4 and isn't a big fan of Peace Walker either. Pretty sure he has gone on record that he's not going to do anymore of those videos.
Nada Namae I absolutely understand why too. Mr Hop if you're reading this just know your close ups are my favorites! And I hope and can't wait for your Death Stranding videos!
I believe he has previously said he might just when he feels like it.
That last line was such a burn against the "AAA" game industry in general. Well done.
If there's one positive out of this, it might be that it's a trick you can only pull once. Pinocchio Pitchford might have smugly deflected all the criticism stemming from A:CM but he's got nowhere to hide from Battleborne's sales figures. Do you think anyone's going buy anything made by Hello Games again?
Depends I mean No man's sky does have its die hard fans and depending on how murray and team operate in the next few months as in if they go out of their way to patch the game to make it better I'm sure they could win back players the same way bungie won back player by improving destiny.
Rock Steel Do your really think that's going to happen, though? Bungie were - and still are - in constant contact with the player base. Hello Games hasn't said a fucking thing since August.
Besides that... Bungie didn't actually improve Destiny. They simply charged you another $150 to play the non-shit version of a game you already paid full price for.
darkrage6 Borderlands was an existing property with a proven track record. Battleborne was not. I don't think you can compare the Pre-Sequel side-by-side with Battleborne.
darkrage6 I'm sensing... you're a Battleborne fan. The spirits are telling me... that you think it's terribly unfair that an otherwise solid game had been undermined by its developer being doomed from the start by being a shit and subsequently doing everything wrong...
Impressed? I know you are.
Blizzard is known to be a bully, kudos to Square not revealing its new XIV online expansion until Legion was months out.
And this, my friends, is why you never, ever, pre-order or fund kickstarters - and always rent first, where the opportunity exists.
This is the best consumer protection entity: COMMON SENSE. Seriously, people get scammed because they're dumb enough to buy into the hype. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. In my opinion, they deserve to be disappointed when the actual games come out and turn out to be trash
Dude, people still send processing fees to fake lotteries. At some point you need to just protect idiots from predators.
+Ni Br No you don't. And I'm glad you called them idiots, you really exemplify the progressive mindset. You hold contempt for the unwashed masses and string them along like little poodles acting like they can't make decisions on their own. You treat them like children, they will act like children and throw a tantrum whenever something doesn't go their way. When you make a transaction in this country, in any free country, you get what you paid for. If anyone could get their money back at any time, companies wouldn't be able to keep up with the legal fees let alone pay back the "ripped off" consumers. Take a step back into reality.
Many games with false advertising > Only the largest game companies surviving but no false advertising
+dup I'm not acting like they can't make their on decisions. They clearly can't, and in many cases they shouldn't even be expected to. I mean only a little while ago tabacco companies were telling people that smoking was healthy. The only reason that these people are no longer allowed to advertise to children is because of regulation. The reality is, if you make it unprofitable for businesses to conduct themselves in certain ways then they will stop. Time and time again consumers havn't been able to effectively do this on their on. Scientific inquiry and regulating institutions have been required to stop companies doing whatever the fuck they want. Libertarianism is stupid.
It's primarily the biggest companies that lie the most? What the shit are you talking about?
Ni Br "They clearly can't... shouldn't be expected to"
Look, just because mother said you were smart when you were elementary school doesn't mean you are. Quit looking down on people. The masses can make their own decisions and if their decision is uninformed, it is still their decision. You have to respect that. You can't say that you are right and they are wrong. You can't say the government should impose laws to "protect the consumer" when all those bills are designed to do is create more lawsuits to further drag down businesses.
Take, for example, the recent debate over being allowed to sue gun manufacturers for their gun being used in a murder. It is a sideways attack to limit firearm ownership by attacking the suppliers. The lawsuits it will create are not designed to win, they're designed to bog down business.
As of right now, we have pretty much all we need in the way of regulating advertising. It is dishonest to dress up your sandwich to look nice in the pictures, but do we really need sad looking Big Macs on the side of McDonald's? Is it unreasonable to want your product to look the best it can? Are dressed up screenshots really life-threatening in the same way advertising cigarettes as health is? Are dressed-up gameplay segments really *that* bad of a thing?
Socialism is stupid, no, dangerous.
Not sure why people still bring up the Killzone thing. It's been proven the actual game looks better in many aspects except for maybe aliasing and I guess resolution.
AmatsuKona Agreed.
AmatsuKona i guess because its still not showing the product but a representation to mislead people into thinking that was the game they would get which is just one of the many examples
Bello G I guess but that trailer came out before the PS3 was even released. It was like proof of concept.
I don't think it was because of how it looked, more than it was about how it played. The game in the trailers looked to be much more involved and detailed in gameplay than the one people got.
AmatsuKona and watch dogs were ok, I personally didn't see downgrade
The ASA can refer cases to Trading Standards who are a different body with very sharp teeth, they can prosecute and the result can be seizure of assets, huge fines and even jail in some cases.
I have never once played a AAA game on Steam that had accurately representative screenshots. I play a game, check out the screenshots on Steam, and "My game didn't look anything like that..." That's unfortunately just a "reasonable" expectation now.
I fucking hate how most consumers don't wait when it comes to these sketchy releases. In my opinion, the average video game consumer is for the most part uninformed about this type of bullshot and only really gives a shit when someone tells them to, kind of falling into a cycle of doing what someone else tells em to (from ads or curators).
I was worried about the absence of our good friend, Weird Japanese Ramen Stand. But my worries were all for naught, for here is my good friend once again, Weird Japanese Ramen Stand.
Caralho, Presunto Seara. Good one George. hehehe
Bullshotting seems to reach a "golden age" every time a new console generation comes along because your average normal customer isn't going to have a thorough knowledge of what the technology is capable of. It happened in 2005-6 and then again around 2013-14 (Watchdogs being an infamous example). I'm sure if we went back the way we'd find a similar pattern.
So... Is the ramen flying bowl a thing now ? Nice; great video.
Excellent, and thorough analysis. Nice work. I think NMS was pretty good, and pretty close to what we were shown and led to expect. But I also had a healthy skepticism about what to expect before hand.
I think the stink of fraud so many seem to smell indicates that too many of us aren't "reasonable" enough for the classic "reasonable person" test, which is relied upon in so much of commercial law. People aren't skeptical enough generally.
Would there not be some legal distinction made between an actual advertisement, and a preview trailer, that represents something which is not actually for sale at that point? I found the whole No Man's Sky thing interesting in that respect. When I heard legal action was being taken I thought it was a bit frivolous, until I discovered that that trailer from ages ago was still being used on its Steam store page.
IMO that's a crucial distinction. Every 'reasonable' person should know that a trailer released many months or even years before a game's release will not necessarily represent the final product, especially since most trailers contain a disclaimer that specifically says just that. But if those trailers are being used to advertise a game after its release, that's definitely unethical.
As a kid, it used to be way worse in the 1990s.
Game commercials would literally show kids getting enveloped by the game world and having super intense, high-octane experiences that literally left their hair standing on end. The characters would talk, explosions everywhere, crazy music in the background, the whole nine. You'd only see a bit of the game play while the camera shook and zoomed all over it for a few seconds.
Game magazine adverts would have live action photos or super detailed matte paintings that didn't represent any of the final 8-bit/16-bit product.
Unless you had a friend who bought the game before you, you PHYSICALLY went to a toy store and they actually had the game in the preview kiosk, OR you went to a video store and payed $5 to play it for 3 days, you had no actual idea what the gameplay was going to be like.
And for most kids, if you bought it and it sucked? TOO BAD. You spent a whopping $40 on that fucking game and it was the only thing you had until Christmas 5 months from now.
Nowadays, every time I hear someone get excited about a game from just watching the trailer, I tell them to WAIT UNTIL IT'S RELEASED AND WATCH UNCUT FOOTAGE OF THE GAMEPLAY ON UA-cam. We have the information to understand what we're really buying now, everyone should use it.
We can't expect these companies to honestly regulate themselves any time soon, but it has honestly gotten better if you're willing to look back far enough.
is the noodle shot gonna be a thing? i thought it was japan exclusive
To be fair, a lot of our legal system uses a "reasonable person" standard. I'd assume that for whatever reason, the problem is that the case hasn't been well argued to this point in front of a judge who was interested in listening. A reasonable person standard is an objective test, and you have to determine where that objective line is. A lot of people with good information are going to realize upon good argument (like this video) that a reasonable consumer WILL be taken in by bullshots, but until that is properly brought in court, the truth doesn't matter. We can't let previous legal failings deter us from pursuing higher quality industry standards.
where are the socks that I ordered you con man my feet are getting cold
Does not protect the foolish or feeble minded. Well there it is folks, the law does not protect the mindless hordes of the mass consumers, the types which would wait in line for a new Iphone to replace their 3 month old one.
Pretty much why Battleborn bombing is a such sweet karma.
As a "Reasonable consumer" I believe the most effective and reasonable way of combating Bullshot products. Quite simply, is DON'T BUY! Wait a week, or a month, or even a year! Wait for the Game to be patched, reviewed, and updated (Its what the internet is for). Also wait for the price to be cut in half. There really is no reason to preorder a game on day one. Besides getting more virtual stuff (Which can be modded in for free later). Games like Destiny, Battlefront, and Fallout 4 are prime examples of these.
Moreover if people insist on adding more ambiguous bureaucratic red tape to a system that already is bloated with Legalism. All it will do on the long run and i mean this sincerely. Is that it will hurt you. As well as company like CD Project Red that actually puts out good quality products.
Actually Killzone 2 turned out way more gorgeous than that trailer lol fluidity yeah that's a lie they shouldn't have told but the game as is felt alright and matched Killzone ones heavy equipment feel. But slightly SLIGHTLY smoother.
Great video! Good and well researched answers for relevant questions.
NMS still has a defense argument based on its procedural generation algorithm. They could claim everything in the trailers is possible to exist in the game world, even if no one ever found anything similar. In fact, my bet is that everything they've shown was obtained by tweaking the internal parameters that are usually randomly generated. It sounds like a harmless time-saving method to get some good footage that highlights what your game can do, but the results of random generation algorithms can't compete against an artist direction.
I had to google what is a bullshot and got this.
bull·shotˈbo͝olˌSHät/nouna cocktail made with vodka, beef bouillon, and Worcestershire sauce.
That sounds disgusting.
That's like a mixture of alcoholism and desperation right there.
It seems to basically boil down to "It's ok for us to lie to you because we've lied to you so much that you should be used to being lied to and thus YOU are being unreasonable to expect us to not lie."
DON'T PREORDER GAMES
Bullshotting happened in 1980. It got so bad that people got sick of buying shit games and it resulted in a complete crash of the gaming markets in the US.
So I think the Judges should learn that simple fact to keep these Devs in check before they slit their own throats and crash the gaming markets when consumers get sick of the BS and just play mobile games.
kasinalpha I don't think that's 100% true but then again I don't know all the details about the video game crash of 83 or 84, I don't remember the exact year. But I doubt there will be a crash.
Yes, as a blanketed statement to be blunt, yes, it's not true. Gaming will not crash completely. But Sony, and Xbox are hurting themselves alot right now. Many reasons, but consoles are giving up exclusives and pushing too hard on downloaded content rather then being a hardware system. Due to that, they are becoming crappy versions of PCs. So if a fall happens, Nintendo and Steam will be fine, they are pushing to make consumers happy with the 3DS and Steam being the only distributors that are keeping up with Mobile gaming. And Mobile gaming is the "Board Games" of the modern world, just simple bs games to blow time with. Nintendo will be the family bonder, the fun games that are made to be games, and PC will be where the pissed off console gamers and hardcore gamers will move to. Where Sony and Xbox will have to learn they pissed off everyone by jacking up multiplayer costs that should be free, and really hurt consumers by forcing out crap like VR, Kinect, and network games that need huge amounts of money just to play.
Well its a double edge sword, in my opinion gaming is stagnant as all fuck due to the fact that AAA games are more expensive to make. No one wants to take risks that may not yield returns. From the whole poorly presented 'sjw female gamer/pop-culture feminism/more boring female protagonists' to the same game being released each or every year, to seeing the rise and dependency on the Indy game scene - every corporate company is trying to milk consumer for all they are worth and expand their customer base.
And to be honest i hope to god a crash happens because it be for the better. The current trend in the gaming scene is ruled by the iron fist of capitalist greed.
If there were to be a crash, I'd prefer it to be because people are finally done with AAA games being released in completely broken and disastrous states.
It nowhere near as bad as the 1980s, the differences between the game we get and the game that was advertise is far smaller than in the 1980s and 90s for that matter.
6:02
The word "reasonable" or others similar to it, like "diligent" are very common in Law in general, to a point in wich judges, jurists and lawyers all know how to manage it, even if the definition is not always completely clear. Just as an example: at least in the Civil Law tradition (that is, simplifying a lot, the juridical tradition of continental Europe and its colonies), and probably in Common Law as well, one of the primary criteria to determine if someone is responsible of non intentional damage to another, is to determine wether this person acted "like a responsible head of family would". This is stuff that comes all the way from the Roman juridical system and lawyers have dealt with it since they exist.
My point is, the word reasonable isn't unreasonably unclear in a context like this.
Great video as always nonetheless.
I love your videos on gaming and real world clash
Brilliant work, mate. The only thing that's going to dismantle these mendacious practices is for gamers, as a group, to refuse to patron the pre-order hype culture, and that's not going to happen until we probably have half a dozen more NMS-type backlashes in a short period, and a few of the more historically egregious defenders (the sinister three come to mind) lay in well-deserved graves.
Ubisoft E3 trailers are the kings of this shit.
My new personal mantra:
"False Advertisement" is a redundant phrase.
Don't trust anything a salesman says. Marketing is the act of legally tricking people into buying what they don't need.
There is a silver lining in this case and its the fact they had lied about there being multiplayer.
There is just one little problem though. They never mentioned or showed multiplayer in their advertisements, they only talked about it in interviews which aren't actually considered advertisements i think. So they can get away with it even though they lied their asses off.
That the question I been trying to find out, do interviews count as advertisement, so far I have been unable to find the answer. I do wonder if a judge could set a precedent in this area, if someone decides to take it to court.
Really great reporting on this one Mr.Weidman, thank you.
Quando eu entrei pra ver o vídeo, a última coisa que eu esperava era o comercial da Fátima Bernardes.
Mas já que tô aqui... cadê os BR?
pfvr n me deixem no vácuo
0_o outro BR?que surpresa boa!
Eita porra, eu fui respondido. Mano, o UA-cam nacional é quase 100% um belo lixão. Então eu tenho que me refugiar por aqui.
Haha fiquei em choque também
Sou muito fã do George Weidman
Diego Matias Weed-man*
Mas sim, também sou um puta fã. Casaria com ele se eu não fosse hétero. Talvez eu precisasse morar mais perto dele também...
to be fair, casuals like overhyped games, I have many casual friends and they all loved NMS, because it was exactly what they expected, they didn't get fully into the hype train to know how the game lacked what it promised. On the other hand, most "hardcore gamers" were saying the game was going to be shit before it released. And honestly, at the beginning it may have tried to be what it promised, but you can't always deliver what you expect the game is going to be, game development is ever changing. I think people just like to cry and bitch about everything they can.
darkrage6 Hmm... ok.
THAT FUCKING SPAGHETTI THING!
Fantastic video George. Love the deep dives into the nitty gritty of everything game dev.
what if you advertise a game to be really bad but its really good.
Then it fails at launch, the developer folds, and it becomes a cult hit a few years later.
In a world fully dedicated to consumer transparency, naturally, legal representatives would demand that the developers go back and make the game worse.
Nintendo did that back in the days of Earthbound. And it failed, shocker I know.
Your game is either a flop but becomes a cult as another mentioned or it pulls a DOOM where public opinion of the game changed in a night (although to be fair it was DOOM which meant it was probably going to sell pretty well).
If you don't want to make any money, then go for it.
And this is exactly why I never trusted game marketing, why I don't get hyped, why I don't pre-order and why I don't buy games on launch. Because I as a reasonable consumer simply have no other choice than to assume the cynical option of thinking that marketing is always a lie and before I can hear honest testimonials of others who have no stake in selling me these products, I have no reason to be interested in them. At all. I dearly hope one day gamers (and the public at large for that matter) learn some patience and don't fall for shit like this, that they'll educate themselves on what they're about to buy and therefore make these marketing tactics not profitable anymore. Because that's the only way this situation will ever change.
i blame VGX for all the hype NMS got...
***** i was talking only about the hype, and that started with 2013 VGX when the game had a spotlight to itself and everyone knew the game was only still in development...
you can blame Hello Games for everything that came after, but the hype started on 2013 at VGX...
***** so where did the hype for this game start? VGX was a worldwide media event, you think this game would get the same hype if Hello Games just popped their first trailer on their youtube channel? only people looking for games like these will notice, then pop it on N4G, and that hype still wouldn't be the same as what it got from VGX...
I think the reason why many bullshots videos aren't considered illegal is because they are actually being rendered in-engine. Just using settings that aren't nowhere near the final product, and assets made just for the videos. you got supersampling, 4k textures, no limits on the polys, no lods, normal mapped models being replaced by their HD versions so on and so forth.