Bischoff made Turner empty his purse so that his wrestlers could go and do coke while Paulie made his wrestlers empty their purses so that HE could go and do coke.
I actually think Heyman's greatest talents in wrestling will be forgotten; his ability to bring out the best in any wrestler he got his hands on and work with them to develop their gimmick (or character or whatever term you like) and properly showcase it to the fans. Paul E could get damn near anybody over and have the fans care about almost anyone. That's the contribution he should be remembered for and the one that anyone could take a lesson from.
Remember those glorious few months of Raw a couple of years ago with heyman at the helm? where guys like Ricochet were getting a chance to show off. he STILL knows how to give the fans what they want and get pretty much anyone over, he just doesn't have the power in WWE to make it happen sadly.
But ol' Jimbo hates it. So you can tell how shallow he really is. It must be only how he saw it when he started, where he saw it too. Don't you dare travel to other areas, don't try to grow your audience. I won't say I don't agree with him on many things, but it's rants like this that drive me up the wall. Yes the same people that like athletic guys performing complex moves VS Bobby Eaton I just saw from 88, and 89 boring as hell enjoy some things that AEW now has. Too bad AEW tries emulating WWE when doing them though.
@@dodesskiy1 Don't get me wrong... i completely understand his point, even back then... i somewhat agree, but i also believe there is a time and a place for that stuff... and then generation of WCW guys were perfect, because they still respected the fundamentals for the most part. Now a days guys who respect the fundamentals look like the weird ones because everybody else just makes it seem like a clown show.
Chris Jericho and Dean Malenko were in the Cruiserweight division. Even up until the end of WCW, the Cruiserweights were a highlight of the product. People were really into "Sugar" Shane Helms before the WWF buyout and WCW invasion.
Yeah, and you don't need to argue too hard about that. They did draw, Cornette just has an axe that he will eternally grind when it comes to certain people.
Funny enough Rey, Juvi, Psicosis, Jericho, & Malenko were all in ECW before jumping over to WCW. But yeah, those 6-8 man luchadore tag matches got the crowd more hyped than any Nitro Girl ever could. Not to mention, WCW was where I first saw Jushin Thunder Liger.
Cruiserweight division was a draw for those of us who were young at the time, but it drive away the fans who were 40 and older at the time. My uncles and their friends all stopped watching WCW because of luchadores. Some gave up watching wrestling completely, while others turned to Raw because of Austin.
Heyman is still more impactful. Paul E. has always been incredible. Bischoff was never as emotionally dynamic as Heyman is. Heyman gave Brock a personality and got Reigns accepted by fans who rejected him before. WCW just branched a little off from the WWF with some old WWF guys. ECW took edgy indy wrestling and turned it into a product with angles that shocked people at the time, but that the WWE would copy afterwards (the Undertaker on a cross is apparently fine, but Sandman on a cross forced an apology).
@@AllsparkSupremacy thats the difference, Sandman was a christian cross so he offended a religion, Undertakers was the Undertaker symbol...thats like someone Crucifyin someone on the Blair Witch symbol and havin to apologize
Bischoff is amazing at playing “Eric Bischoff”. Paul Heyman IS Paul Heyman. Bischoff was not the mental worker that Paul is in terms of “rallying the troops” and being able to manipulate through the business the way he has. Those ECW guys still dont really bury Paul despite much noted…malpractice on his part. Both great on screen performers but in terms of overall contribution…ECW,The Dangerous Alliance,The Original Midnights,Brock Lesner,being a Heel commentator,his current work with Reigns and most of all the number 2 or 3 greatest manager of all time(behind Jim and/or Bobby Heenan) eclipses the NWO & beating Vince in the ratings for 83 Weeks imo.
There's no arguing how great the nWo was in the beginning, but by the middle of 1998 that shit was beyond played out & stretching it into 2 separate factions didn't improve the story (imo). Then again, Vince McMahon himself thought he could make the nWo work in his company in 2002 (sigh)...
@@wilcee238 Hogan turning wasn't a great swerve. That is WWE NETWORK version of story telling. He was getting booed for over a year and they had spent nearly a year teasing his turn. 1995's Darkside Hogan in black was trash and didn't draw, so he went back to yellow and red. He needed Hall, Nash, and the NWO invasion angle to get over.
Eric Bischoff is more influential television production wise for wrestling. Heyman is more influential as a wrestling personality and Booker. It’s like apples and oranges to be honest.
And, that was really their respective areas of expertise. Heyman was always a wrestling guy, so he knew booking, angles, promos, how to give the fans what they wanted, etc. Bischoff was a TV guy who brought that knowledge to the business. Both very influential in different ways.
Heyman Cornette and Bischoff all had certain qualities that the other needed. Bischoff had the funds the other 2 needed, Corny had the discipline the other 2 needed and Heyman had the imagination and creativity to get new stars over the other 2 needed.
I think both guys were extremely influential in the sport of Professional Wrestling, but IMO, Heyman has had and still has the longevity of his influence.
Bischoff too I think ppl really forgot bischoff was the first one to do the monthly ppvs and wwf copied that and he was also the first ever heel television authority figure and wwe still has heel authority figures till this day so both Heyman and bischoff legacy and influences are both longevity
Paul heyman: "When the doink the clown had the green hair and the rubber nose, stone cold steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW DAMMIT!". No matter how much vince pretends otherwise, there is no "attitude era" without paul heyman and ECW. Almost everything WWF and WCW did in the late 90s was just ECW on a bigger budget. Heyman is more influential by far(and that's with ignoring all the work he's done with Lesnar, punk, roman etc).
@@dustyp.4228 FMW influenced ECW enough to have the occasional barbed wire matches and the occasional thumbtack or fire spots, but there definitely would have been an ECW without the existence of FMW. FMW did nothing to influence the adult themed story lines, the table smashing high spots, the influx of luchadores, or the great technical wrestling that ECW was known for.
Paul, easily. His ideas and work for ECW were ripped off by Bischoff and Vince, he was a much better booker, and ECW paved the way for much of the style of wrestling we see today, whether that’s good or bad is up to the individual.
No cruiserweight style started in Mexico in CMLL and AAA long before it hit ECW, WCW, or WWF. 1990 to be exact. But it was going on even before 1990. But 1990 was when the "cruiserweight style" we all know came to be. With CMLL and AAA.
@@dexenationgracey1979 Ya. Eddie, Rey, Jericho and Psicosis where in AAA in 1992 and Malenko and Benoit where in New Japan in 89 and Benoit was in Stampede even before that in 85. All before hitting up ECW. All before hitting up the United States lol! I guess many fans didn't see there Mexican wrestling days. I did! I knew they where big stars since 1990. That's why when they talk about there ECW days I just think that it was just a pit stop for them. Like just training for them.
@@lalomontoyajr.9282 but we’re talking about on a major platform . Remember all these guys wanted to get here to display there talents , in a time were you had to be 6’5 250-300 lbs . You had to be a tape trader to see these guys in action ecw came on msg and then tnn what Channel did aaa and new japan and stampede come on that the whole world can watch not just were they were from ?
@@dollaman2745 Well if your talking about mainstream it was WCW who brought them in first. In the 1994 PPV When World's Collide. And AAA came on the tv channel Galavision in 1993. I live in the south in Houston Texas. One of the benefits of living in the south was we got all the southern wrestling and Mexican wrestling on our cable systems.
"Bischoff is the only guy who can say that he beat Vince McMahon at his game for a year." - Kevin Nash Of course that was said in the pre-AEW days but I think it is something that Bischoff deserves credit for, whether he was long-lastingly influential or not.
Crockett beat Vince in terms of ticket sales in the 80s. Vince only won by carpet bombing the entire industry and making it to where everyone had to stoop to his science-fiction level of storytelling in order to captivate the minds of small boys.
What does pre AEW days have to do with anything, AEW beat NXT with a stacked roster and still couldn’t crack 1 million views. Bischoff was beating WWE’s flagship show not just shot gun saturday night
Lol AEW will never beat Vince. Don't give them too much credit. That's delusional. Tony will make sure to never grow his audience. He has no idea to get someone over and keep them over and he likes too much of the silly. It just feels like wrestling satire.
I think it was more-so a result of the stiff competition they were facing from WCW, because otherwise they would have probably kept doing the same old same old
I gotta disagree with Jim, wcw cruiserweight division did draw money. They were always my favorite, I made my dad buy pay per views to watch that group, I bought the n64 wcw games to play as those wrestlers. Wcw vs nwo world tour had such a wide range of wrestlers from global promotions and I ALWAYS played as either a cruiserweight....or Scott Norton because you could hold down the b button and spam his big right hand and tko anyone easily
If wrestling had millions of fans every decade leading up to the late 90s I can see how the current fan base of approx. 800,000 viewers is not considered as "drawing money" sure they drew money but only from that dedicated niche fan base that is around today at wrestlings lowest point
Awesome comment bro. It's cool how you remember the details since I would imagine it was one of your favorite games. I only got to play wrestling games a few times back when wcw was on air because my mom wouldn't allow us to watch it so I had to sneak and that meant definitely no games. I remember playing some kind of wrestling game on Dreamcast at a babysitters house while my dad had visitation but had to work and it was cool, you could choose a wrestler before actually choosing them and they'd give a little type of promo thing like for example if you put your cursor on Diamond Dallas Paige he would say "hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey monkey boy... Like there's a choice here?? Pick the man with a plan, pick D D P ! "
@@orangemaniabrother2232 Wasn’t it Bischoff who brought them in I first by promoting AAA’s When Worlds Collide in LA in 1994? After that ECW brought them in but it was Bischoff who saw them first and made the first contact with Konnan.
Jim's kind of putting down Smoky Mountain here for the sake of saying that AEW isn't like it. Smoky had its own production values. Had its own booking patterns. Yes, it was similar to previous iterations, but to say that Smoky is pure pro wrestling is to just forget everything else that goes into making a tv show.
Boo'urns! The crappy (but spectacular) MS paint jobs work way better, they set a humourous tone before I've even clicked the video, this new stuff doesn't work at all
Any SMW influence on AEW is going to come from Punk if it ever does. Punk himself did that tour bus video for WWE where he showed off all his SMW tapes and DVDs.
@@vernessalkic1065lmaooo? How can you say this when NXT is the most recent and successful version of "studio" wrestling that only goes out to do TakeOvers.
@@vernessalkic1065 Yep, TV network deals and the Saudi money. But I doubt it that they will get a new deal like the last with Fox, because Fox expected 4 Mio viewers.
I'll watch Rey vs Eddie from Halloween Havoc '97 at least once a year. Such a good match, where all of the really acrobatic stuff still makes sense. To paraphrase Jim, Rey was excellent at taking a classic ass-beating. He and Eddie both had great matches with Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, and Jericho. I think what Jim was talking about were the six man matches that all went to hell--you could always count on the spot where everyone takes a turn diving over the top rope and onto everyone else on the floor, one by one. Those always cracked me up, to be honest.
No, he hates 12 suplexes in 20 minutes, he thinks it's not selling. It should be 2 big guys doing 3 in 20 minutes and moaning and groaning after each for 5 at a time. And no top rope moves he never saw in the 80s, a big no no. It became more exciting and dynamic, he knows it deep down inside, hates it, and bashes it. Bobby Eaton could not physically do it, ergo it's not good.
@@randycrawford1132 1 thing about Rey Mysterio. I loved Malenko, and Liger in the 90s, and others like them. I remember both Malenko and Liger VS Rey Mysterio. Both Malenko and Liger would have been according to the brain Jim Cornette too small for U.S. TV. In fact Liger was told that in NJPW, and went to Mexico first before he came back. Liger in 94 in Japan proved others wrong, smaller men all day competing was popular as hell. They were all there, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Psycosis, Rey Mysterio. Both Malenko, and Liger had matches VS Rey after here and there. They were both short men, and not as heavy as some. To me it was clear that Rey Mysterio was tiny even compared to them. Plus both excelled at amature wrestling first. It showed, Rey was an acrobat. I think he was the first of that wave of wrestling Jim Cornette so hates. But if people like it now, who cares what Jim Cornette thought then, or thinks now. In the 80s people were just not exposed to it, so there was no way to know if they'd like it or not. Many might have liked it in 85 too. Don't fool yourself, people in 85 laughed at pro wrestling, went to watch it to laugh. Jim thinks they were suspending disbelief, in that tower of doom BS? Some great matches like Flair VS Steamboat might have done it, but 90% of other crap I just re-watched was as fake as anything AEW does now.
I think Cornette is omitting the fact that a number of those Cruiserweights went on to become money drawing main event superstars. Mysterio, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho etc. That would have never happened if Bischoff hadn't introduced that style to the mainstream to begin with.
@@josiah1218 Heyman for years and years always claimed that Eric was stealing his guys. That whole "ECW Mole" was based on this. Turned out Todd Gordon was the one who was on the phone with Eric giving him names of guys he could use. That is how he was pushed out of ECW and Heyman got full control of the company. Then he aligned himself with Vince in the WWE/ECW vs WCW "Monday Wars" if he promised to "steer" his guys towards WWE and not WCW
Heyman by a longshot. Nobody chants 'WCW' in the crowd. They still chant 'ECW' to this day. Heyman showed the value of smaller wrestlers and the luchadores and Bischoff saw it and took it for his own. Heyman loved to book tag team wrestling. In his run as head writer of Smackdown! which had a tremendous jump in the ratings, he made tag teams a focal point. Tag teams aren't a big thing in WWE, but they are in AEW and I think that and the style of tag team wrestling was greatly influenced by Heyman. The entire turn off the lights or the wrestler's entrance music going off during a run in, etc...it wasn't created by Heyman...but he was the major driving factor. The WWE promoting their brand over the wrestlers...another heavily Heyman influenced idea.
stop saying longshot, it's pretty damn close because you can make a case for both. Bischoff nearly put vince out of business. Surely someone capable of that doesn't lose by a LONGSHOT
people only chant EC-DUB because they want to see hardcore matches lol....thats it. nobody has a reason to chant WCW that would be stupid...thats like someone randomly chanting TNA it makes no sense. people pull out a table dumb fans start chanting EC-DUB because they think thats all ECW was only about lol...just like every ECW wrestler they're not over they dont even chant their names they chant ECW at them lmaoooo
@@167kinggam What did Eric Bischoff ever create that influenced the business? The only star that he freshly developed was Goldberg. Not Hogan, not Hall & Nash, not Sting. And so many others went on to be bigger stars once they went from WCW to the WWE.
@@richiehunt5097 Bischoff is the reason why we have live wrestling on a weekly basis on a weekday. If not for Bischoff, RAW would probably still be taped every other week in the Manhattan Center. He brought PPV style wrestling presentation to audiences. AEW Dynamite and RAW and Smackdown being live in front of big crowds is thanks to Bischoff
I would say Bischoff was more influential short term because he was the last guy to really take it to Vince, but Heyman was/is more influential long term because he inspired so many guys to adopt the hardcore style and he inspired many promoters so copy the ECW's style as well. And Heyman will go down as one of the greatest managers of all time too, something Bischoff can't say.
not only that but bischoff was the first to start monthly ppvs which the wwf would do the same and bischoff became the first television heel authority figure which the wwf would adopt to with the mr mcmahon character bischoff is a wrestling legend whether ppl like him or not
Cornette basically says at the end of this video that even as far back as 30 years ago people had moved on from the type of wrestling he likes, yet he expects AEW to do that type a show.
Wrestling is a little niche now and AEW has an audience of just over a million fat nerds. Most of their audience has the charm of a Japanese subway groper lol
What Bischoff always forgets to mention is all his cruiserweights came to WCW by way of ECW. Heyman found them first. Mysterio, Guerrero, Psicosis, Juventud, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Damian, Ciclope, and I’m sure more I’m forgetting. they all got their first National US tv exposure in ECW. Heyman had Konnan, said bring me your best. He did. When Konnan left ECW, he took ECW’s Luchadores with him. Konnan is really the guy who deserves the nod in bringing those guys to the dance.
If they are, they certainly aren't making good television with it. Then again, I haven't watched WWE programming since March of this year, so I'll button my lip...
WWE, the most successful prowrestling company in the world are using Eric Bischoff's style of television wrestling to this day. I think Bischoff wins this.
Its Heyman. He has one of the greatest minds for wrestling and KNOWS the business. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Heyman and Cornette are two sides of the same coin Edit: when I say Heyman knows the business I'm talking about psychology and storytelling. Paul couldn't balance the budget to save his life
No need to say it again seeing as how that's been said multiples times by multiple people in the business, stop acting like you're saying something profound
@@savievere9759 actually I spoke ONE sentence with zero context about Bischoff whereas you went on a paragraph long fellatio fest over heyman so who’s the fanboy ?? Make it make sense
Heyman hands down. Heyman lead the way for guys. He was an epic manager that made his guys stars. Bischoff always followed the star. He was Hogan's shadow. He never really made stars.
Screw it, in a perfect world Jim, Bischoff, and Heyman would all get along and open up a promotion together, and take all the stars from wwe and aew. Some how take all of their best ideas and perfectly fuse them together, but like I said that would be in a perfect world, and currently we're far from that.
LOL what a good idea! If they could keep from getting sued by WWE for trademark infringement and Hogan for not making him look tough enough it’s he great.
Plus he almost did what I wanted so much. He almost exposed the business of Jim Cornette, though ended up being exposed instead LOL. I watched it yesterday on Peacock again. But Jim later did it. ua-cam.com/video/BLhPqnOcCWs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WWE Talk about suspending the disbelief, that there will do it!
Everybody who says Eric Bischoff doesn't know shit. The Attitude Era hardcore personalities and match style was wannabe-ECW. The WCW Cruiserweight style wrestling came from ECW and that was the best part of Nitro. It wasn't The Nwo. Paul Heyman WAS 90's wrestling which was easily the best period in wrestling history.
Eric came up with the live action Monday Night format. He produced wrestling as a weekly TV show, not just a PPV and house show commercial. TV rights money has transformed the business.
That is a good point. Bischoff changed the way WCW and WWF focused their revenue streams. Before that, free TV events were more like advertisements for the live shows, the wrestling merchandise, and the seasonal PPVs. Bischoff started giving away the entertainment that had peevishly been locked away behind pay walls, under the assumption that the ad revenue and TV contracts would more than make up for a loss in ticket revenue. I think before Bischoff no wrestling promotion would even care about their TV ratings if they were constantly selling out live events.
When it came to 90s WCW, I tuned in to watch the cruiserweights. Psicosis, Ultimo Dragon (the original belt collector), Juventud Guerrera, Eddy and Chavo Guerrero, and Dean Malenko. I loved their matches. I loved everything they did. I honestly switched back to WWE/WWF when the heavyweights came on half the time.
Yea I still don't understand the height thing sometimes dude like kurt angle and ric flair are both like 5'10 and where never huge guys but are some of the most popular wrestlers ever me personally I think versatility in Wrestling is very important becasue let's be real not everyone is 6'2 240 there are some 5'9 190 tough guys and some 6'9 270 wimps lol vince thinks ppl really care that much when we really dont we just want great wrestling and storytelling that makes sense
Eric kicked vince's backside for 83 week straight and outdrew wwe numerous times in many matrices in that period. His style of television production is still emulate to this by wwe. So Eric is more influential.
Shawn Michaels, a cruiserweight, was also in the thicket of WWF's upper midcard and main event scene around that time even before the rise of guys like Ultimo and Eddie and Jericho.
Paul Heyman. What you seeing right now with him is him ADAPTING to OTHER'S vision, hence the brilliant Bloodline saga. The Bish has his highlights though. It's a slight edge, but I'll give it to Heyman, and only because of adaptability.
I thought the cruiserweights were important part of WCW, but i wouldn't want them to be most of the show. There were a lot of old school type veterans from CMLL who wrestled with the wild cruiserweights like Juventud or Psicosis.
bischoff elevated the crusierweights and also started the monthly pay per views which the wwf would adopt and became the first ever heel television authority figure which wwf would also later adopt to with the mr mcmahon character. bischoff is a wrestling legend whether you like him or not
If Corny wasn't so cranky all the time and rage quit everything on a drop of a hat, he would have probably been more influential than both those guys together.
Eric deserves more credit and respect because he made WCW profitable, he nearly put Vince out of business, he made Nitro compelling, the architect behind the nWo, the original heel authority figure, created the elimination chamber and great insight into the business
Bischoff had the biggest direct and immediate impact on the business with the 83 week run and the NWO, but Heyman had the biggest long term impact. He improved Stone Cold’s promo’s during his stint in ECW, gave Mick Foley the foundation to move onto WWE and become a major star, guided Brock Lesnar to becoming the biggest draw in the industry and championed CM Punk to the main roster to become a star in his own right. That’s just a few off the top of my head, but without Heyman it’s arguable that many of those don’t have the same careers
I think Jim forgets how many great wrestlers were in the cruiserweight division in WCW. I get that everybody tries to do highspot wrestling these days but that doesn't discredit those who use/used it appropriately.
I love hearing how people in the business think about other people. All have different perspectives and relationships, and none can really be refuted because it’s all hearsay and opinion. The evolution of people, characters, wrestling, and how it was promoted is so interesting.
Both companies are lame as shit. Thats why if you pan the audience of both you mostly see fat patchy bearded nerds with all the charm of a Japanese subway groper.
Eric still continues to impact wrestling. How many people have a t-shirt in which they are ripping off of the nWo logo? How many guys still do the “too sweet”?
Cornette is basically basing his answer cause he still hates bischoff even after they did that wwe roundtable after they did the wwe hall of fame a few years ago
Going live every week, 3 hour weekly programming and guaranteed contracts. I think Bischoff had a bit more of a lasting impact than Jim gives him credit for.
People talk like Bischoff had unlimited access to Turner's funds, utter nonsense, he was given a budget and not one penny more, no major corporation is going to give some random guy complete unlimited access to their bank accounts, get real 😂
Don’t get me wrong. The new artist is fantastic. But I’m going to miss the goofy happy cartoony Cornette. Anyway, this is a tough call. Obviously Heyman has had the longer running influence. I mean he’s still active in WWE today. But I don’t know. The Monday Night Wars, the Attitude Era, they were a direct response to Bischoff. I think people who say Heyman make good points. Bischoff wasn’t involved in the business as long. But speaking only for myself. as a Gen X fan who watched the Monday Night Wars in high school, I think I may have to say Bischoff.
Jim was paid to hate Bischoff not his buddy Paul. He was in WWF when they were up against WCW while partnering with ECW .. remember that?? His point of view is biased on this topic for obvious reasons.
Paul Heyman is the superior wrestling mind but I have to disagree I believe its Eric bischoff. The whole way modern wrestling is presented on television for the last 25 years is because of him. Before Monday night Nitro it was still 1980s low budget presentation pretaped with job matches for the good or bad its Bischoff. Everytime time any wrestling show on TV starts with fireworks and a talking segment that's Eric Bischoff.
Eddie Guerrero got his US debut in ecw. Paul Heyman is not even close. Who's still employed? Eric lost $62 million dollars in one year? That's a special person right there
Corny's Cartoon Rendition in This ArtWork, Has Him Looking Like "Dr.Trask" from *'X-MEN:TheAnimatedSeries"!* (Maybe "Senator Kelly"...but Mostly "Dr.Trask"! 😜 )
Bischoff made Turner empty his purse so that his wrestlers could go and do coke while Paulie made his wrestlers empty their purses so that HE could go and do coke.
😆
Bischoff acts like an adderall junkie though, IMO
@Dax Dexico funyuns 😂😂😂
@Dax Dexico he hasn't always looked like that. And I've seen plenty of fat coke heads.
@Dax Dexico China Club Paul E. Dangerously Heyman was definitely a cokehead.
This art has a Metal Gear Solid feel to it.
🎵 What a thrill 🎵
❗️
Yeah very true, I own the MGS comic books, and it's similar to Ashley Woods style.
Solid Cornette, Liquid Bischoff and Solidus Heyman. Sons of Big Vince
“Do you believe a wrestling match can bloom on the mud field?
I actually think Heyman's greatest talents in wrestling will be forgotten; his ability to bring out the best in any wrestler he got his hands on and work with them to develop their gimmick (or character or whatever term you like) and properly showcase it to the fans. Paul E could get damn near anybody over and have the fans care about almost anyone. That's the contribution he should be remembered for and the one that anyone could take a lesson from.
Definitely. Bischoff couldn't get Austin over. Heyman got guys like Hack Myers over, who would've struggled to even be job guys elsewhere.
Great point.
FACTS ☝
Smackdown 2002-2004? Roman Reigns? That will be far from forgotten by the fans.
Remember those glorious few months of Raw a couple of years ago with heyman at the helm? where guys like Ricochet were getting a chance to show off. he STILL knows how to give the fans what they want and get pretty much anyone over, he just doesn't have the power in WWE to make it happen sadly.
“We got a lot more sandman’s than Eddie Guerrero’s” 😂😂😂😂 comment of the day. Great comment, topic, and artwork.
And both the sandman and Eddie Guerrero were super over 🤷
Crazy thing is he’s not wrong
Eddie was great in ECW
More like offbrand sandman sandman was awsm nick gage isnt
@@electrolettuce5624 yeah but Sandman was over in that specific context while Eddie was over wherever he went.
"Eric Bischoff reminded me of the guy in the Wizard of Oz behing the curtain making all the noise but didn't know anything" - Bret Hart
You quoted someone. Congratulations.
Cruiserweight wrestling in the WCW days had light years more psychology involved than anything now a days.
But ol' Jimbo hates it. So you can tell how shallow he really is. It must be only how he saw it when he started, where he saw it too. Don't you dare travel to other areas, don't try to grow your audience. I won't say I don't agree with him on many things, but it's rants like this that drive me up the wall. Yes the same people that like athletic guys performing complex moves VS Bobby Eaton I just saw from 88, and 89 boring as hell enjoy some things that AEW now has. Too bad AEW tries emulating WWE when doing them though.
@@dodesskiy1 Don't get me wrong... i completely understand his point, even back then... i somewhat agree, but i also believe there is a time and a place for that stuff... and then generation of WCW guys were perfect, because they still respected the fundamentals for the most part. Now a days guys who respect the fundamentals look like the weird ones because everybody else just makes it seem like a clown show.
Its more so due to who the cruiserweights were and not how they were used
@@kennethrawlings7265 it’s both.
I would argue that the cruiser weights did draw money for WCW. My friends and I would definitely tune in for Rey, Juve, and Psychosis.
Chris Jericho and Dean Malenko were in the Cruiserweight division. Even up until the end of WCW, the Cruiserweights were a highlight of the product. People were really into "Sugar" Shane Helms before the WWF buyout and WCW invasion.
Yeah, and you don't need to argue too hard about that. They did draw, Cornette just has an axe that he will eternally grind when it comes to certain people.
Funny enough Rey, Juvi, Psicosis, Jericho, & Malenko were all in ECW before jumping over to WCW. But yeah, those 6-8 man luchadore tag matches got the crowd more hyped than any Nitro Girl ever could. Not to mention, WCW was where I first saw Jushin Thunder Liger.
Almost nobody went to the show or bought a ticket to specifically see them.
The nWo, Goldberg and other Main Eventers drew the house.
Cruiserweight division was a draw for those of us who were young at the time, but it drive away the fans who were 40 and older at the time. My uncles and their friends all stopped watching WCW because of luchadores. Some gave up watching wrestling completely, while others turned to Raw because of Austin.
Heyman is still more impactful. Paul E. has always been incredible. Bischoff was never as emotionally dynamic as Heyman is. Heyman gave Brock a personality and got Reigns accepted by fans who rejected him before. WCW just branched a little off from the WWF with some old WWF guys. ECW took edgy indy wrestling and turned it into a product with angles that shocked people at the time, but that the WWE would copy afterwards (the Undertaker on a cross is apparently fine, but Sandman on a cross forced an apology).
Olympic heroes lose their religious beliefs when Vinny Mac flashes the 💰💰💰 #OhItsDamnTrue 🥛😆
Undertakers wasnt on a christian cross was it?
@@NEMtvOfficial it was the logo on his chest, but the theme of crucifixion was what they were trying to get across.
@@AllsparkSupremacy thats the difference, Sandman was a christian cross so he offended a religion, Undertakers was the Undertaker symbol...thats like someone Crucifyin someone on the Blair Witch symbol and havin to apologize
Don't forget Steve Austin..The promos in ECW..
Bischoff is amazing at playing “Eric Bischoff”. Paul Heyman IS Paul Heyman. Bischoff was not the mental worker that Paul is in terms of “rallying the troops” and being able to manipulate through the business the way he has. Those ECW guys still dont really bury Paul despite much noted…malpractice on his part. Both great on screen performers but in terms of overall contribution…ECW,The Dangerous Alliance,The Original Midnights,Brock Lesner,being a Heel commentator,his current work with Reigns and most of all the number 2 or 3 greatest manager of all time(behind Jim and/or Bobby Heenan) eclipses the NWO & beating Vince in the ratings for 83 Weeks imo.
Hell no it doesn’t. Hogan turning heel might be the greatest swerve ever, and the NWO might be the greatest stable ever.
@@wilcee238 NWO was the Lamborghini of wrestling, but was abused and mistreated.
There's no arguing how great the nWo was in the beginning, but by the middle of 1998 that shit was beyond played out & stretching it into 2 separate factions didn't improve the story (imo). Then again, Vince McMahon himself thought he could make the nWo work in his company in 2002 (sigh)...
Nwo not having a fued with dx was a big miss.
@@wilcee238 Hogan turning wasn't a great swerve. That is WWE NETWORK version of story telling. He was getting booed for over a year and they had spent nearly a year teasing his turn. 1995's Darkside Hogan in black was trash and didn't draw, so he went back to yellow and red. He needed Hall, Nash, and the NWO invasion angle to get over.
Eric Bischoff is more influential television production wise for wrestling. Heyman is more influential as a wrestling personality and Booker. It’s like apples and oranges to be honest.
this is the correct take
I agree
Yes
Yep. Going live, monthly PPV's n such. Eric never gets credit for it.
And, that was really their respective areas of expertise. Heyman was always a wrestling guy, so he knew booking, angles, promos, how to give the fans what they wanted, etc. Bischoff was a TV guy who brought that knowledge to the business. Both very influential in different ways.
Heyman Cornette and Bischoff all had certain qualities that the other needed. Bischoff had the funds the other 2 needed, Corny had the discipline the other 2 needed and Heyman had the imagination and creativity to get new stars over the other 2 needed.
Vince had all three, tbf back in the day, All Tony Khan has is funds, he don't have any discipline
I think both guys were extremely influential in the sport of Professional Wrestling, but IMO, Heyman has had and still has the longevity of his influence.
Bischoff too I think ppl really forgot bischoff was the first one to do the monthly ppvs and wwf copied that and he was also the first ever heel television authority figure and wwe still has heel authority figures till this day so both Heyman and bischoff legacy and influences are both longevity
Ecw created the Attitude era
NUFF SAID!!!
@@bmstyty3549 true : tho hayman still wins .
@@TheDON914wcw created the attitude era
You can only pick one person. That's the rules of being a wrestling fan.
Paul heyman: "When the doink the clown had the green hair and the rubber nose, stone cold steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW DAMMIT!". No matter how much vince pretends otherwise, there is no "attitude era" without paul heyman and ECW. Almost everything WWF and WCW did in the late 90s was just ECW on a bigger budget. Heyman is more influential by far(and that's with ignoring all the work he's done with Lesnar, punk, roman etc).
And yet it can be argued there's no Extreme Championship Wrestling without FMW...
@@dustyp.4228 FMW influenced ECW enough to have the occasional barbed wire matches and the occasional thumbtack or fire spots, but there definitely would have been an ECW without the existence of FMW. FMW did nothing to influence the adult themed story lines, the table smashing high spots, the influx of luchadores, or the great technical wrestling that ECW was known for.
Paul, easily. His ideas and work for ECW were ripped off by Bischoff and Vince, he was a much better booker, and ECW paved the way for much of the style of wrestling we see today, whether that’s good or bad is up to the individual.
Can you guys imagine a Table For 3 with Corny, Eazy -E & Heyman?
Wcw ripped off ecw? Lmao ok
Bad content is bad content, the viewer's standard is the subjective here.
@@scrappy93
Vince ripped off Paul's ideas more than Bischoff did. Bischoff could've went a little edgier but didn't
@@scrappy93 They did. ECW started the Attitude Era.
The cruserweight style actually started in the early ecw , Rey , jericho, malenko Guerrero and Benoit , pycosis started in ecw then they went to wcw
No cruiserweight style started in Mexico in CMLL and AAA long before it hit ECW, WCW, or WWF. 1990 to be exact. But it was going on even before 1990. But 1990 was when the "cruiserweight style" we all know came to be. With CMLL and AAA.
Well, there was that AAA and WCW crossover event in 1994, that predates any of them going to ECW.
@@dexenationgracey1979 Ya. Eddie, Rey, Jericho and Psicosis where in AAA in 1992 and Malenko and Benoit where in New Japan in 89 and Benoit was in Stampede even before that in 85. All before hitting up ECW. All before hitting up the United States lol! I guess many fans didn't see there Mexican wrestling days. I did! I knew they where big stars since 1990. That's why when they talk about there ECW days I just think that it was just a pit stop for them. Like just training for them.
@@lalomontoyajr.9282 but we’re talking about on a major platform . Remember all these guys wanted to get here to display there talents , in a time were you had to be 6’5 250-300 lbs . You had to be a tape trader to see these guys in action ecw came on msg and then tnn what Channel did aaa and new japan and stampede come on that the whole world can watch not just were they were from ?
@@dollaman2745 Well if your talking about mainstream it was WCW who brought them in first. In the 1994 PPV When World's Collide. And AAA came on the tv channel Galavision in 1993. I live in the south in Houston Texas. One of the benefits of living in the south was we got all the southern wrestling and Mexican wrestling on our cable systems.
"Bischoff is the only guy who can say that he beat Vince McMahon at his game for a year."
- Kevin Nash
Of course that was said in the pre-AEW days but I think it is something that Bischoff deserves credit for, whether he was long-lastingly influential or not.
Crockett beat Vince in terms of ticket sales in the 80s. Vince only won by carpet bombing the entire industry and making it to where everyone had to stoop to his science-fiction level of storytelling in order to captivate the minds of small boys.
@@AV57 bahahahahahaha damn
What does pre AEW days have to do with anything, AEW beat NXT with a stacked roster and still couldn’t crack 1 million views. Bischoff was beating WWE’s flagship show not just shot gun saturday night
Lol AEW will never beat Vince. Don't give them too much credit. That's delusional. Tony will make sure to never grow his audience. He has no idea to get someone over and keep them over and he likes too much of the silly. It just feels like wrestling satire.
Say what you want about Paul, he was and still is an evil, wrestling genius. ECW was the reason I fell back in love with wrestling.
Heyman he has impact still till this day
Yup
Every time he moves, whatever city he's in feels the impact.
The Attiude era was a direct result of ECW and Heyman, so he had the biggest impact.
LOL
I think it was more-so a result of the stiff competition they were facing from WCW, because otherwise they would have probably kept doing the same old same old
@@danielburger1775 What's funny about that? It's true.
@@Bubba__Sawyer It's bs revisionist garbage.
How exactly was "the Attitude Era a direct result of ECW and Heyman"?
@@danielburger1775 he's right there's a reason Vince brought ecw on his tv
I gotta disagree with Jim, wcw cruiserweight division did draw money. They were always my favorite, I made my dad buy pay per views to watch that group, I bought the n64 wcw games to play as those wrestlers. Wcw vs nwo world tour had such a wide range of wrestlers from global promotions and I ALWAYS played as either a cruiserweight....or Scott Norton because you could hold down the b button and spam his big right hand and tko anyone easily
If wrestling had millions of fans every decade leading up to the late 90s I can see how the current fan base of approx. 800,000 viewers is not considered as "drawing money" sure they drew money but only from that dedicated niche fan base that is around today at wrestlings lowest point
I agree on the cruiserweights but a lot of these were originally in ECW first which gave WCW the idea
The didn't draw as big as the main eventers though, that's the point.
Awesome comment bro. It's cool how you remember the details since I would imagine it was one of your favorite games. I only got to play wrestling games a few times back when wcw was on air because my mom wouldn't allow us to watch it so I had to sneak and that meant definitely no games. I remember playing some kind of wrestling game on Dreamcast at a babysitters house while my dad had visitation but had to work and it was cool, you could choose a wrestler before actually choosing them and they'd give a little type of promo thing like for example if you put your cursor on Diamond Dallas Paige he would say "hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey monkey boy... Like there's a choice here?? Pick the man with a plan, pick D D P ! "
@@orangemaniabrother2232 Wasn’t it Bischoff who brought them in I first by promoting AAA’s When Worlds Collide in LA in 1994? After that ECW brought them in but it was Bischoff who saw them first and made the first contact with Konnan.
i love travis and their art but if they ever need to take a vacation i love this variety in artstyles
Jim's kind of putting down Smoky Mountain here for the sake of saying that AEW isn't like it. Smoky had its own production values. Had its own booking patterns. Yes, it was similar to previous iterations, but to say that Smoky is pure pro wrestling is to just forget everything else that goes into making a tv show.
This is my fav illustrator, love his work on the channel
just gets better and better
Same
Has big Metal Gear vibes
Travis' work had a ton of funny images whereas this guy is artistically gifted but rarely offers any humor at all.
Boo'urns! The crappy (but spectacular) MS paint jobs work way better, they set a humourous tone before I've even clicked the video, this new stuff doesn't work at all
Any SMW influence on AEW is going to come from Punk if it ever does. Punk himself did that tour bus video for WWE where he showed off all his SMW tapes and DVDs.
i don't know... he just recently shitted on people who "hates AEW", and I think he knows what Corny is saying about his company so
These type of q always make me tune in to listen to these videos in youtube..when I m studying...thank you to all viewers who ask such questions
What Eric did with Nitro changed the wrestling landscape to this day
The fact he killed tna like he did nitro is sad
@@vernessalkic1065lmaooo? How can you say this when NXT is the most recent and successful version of "studio" wrestling that only goes out to do TakeOvers.
@@vernessalkic1065 WWE lose money with "House Shows"
@@vernessalkic1065 Yep, TV network deals and the Saudi money. But I doubt it that they will get a new deal like the last with Fox, because Fox expected 4 Mio viewers.
@@vernessalkic1065 I think they were very influential in different ways, it's like comparing apples to oranges
I'll watch Rey vs Eddie from Halloween Havoc '97 at least once a year. Such a good match, where all of the really acrobatic stuff still makes sense. To paraphrase Jim, Rey was excellent at taking a classic ass-beating. He and Eddie both had great matches with Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, and Jericho. I think what Jim was talking about were the six man matches that all went to hell--you could always count on the spot where everyone takes a turn diving over the top rope and onto everyone else on the floor, one by one. Those always cracked me up, to be honest.
No, he hates 12 suplexes in 20 minutes, he thinks it's not selling. It should be 2 big guys doing 3 in 20 minutes and moaning and groaning after each for 5 at a time. And no top rope moves he never saw in the 80s, a big no no. It became more exciting and dynamic, he knows it deep down inside, hates it, and bashes it. Bobby Eaton could not physically do it, ergo it's not good.
But the thing about Eddie and Rey it made sense, a lot of the matches like that now doesn’t make sense
@@randycrawford1132 1 thing about Rey Mysterio. I loved Malenko, and Liger in the 90s, and others like them. I remember both Malenko and Liger VS Rey Mysterio. Both Malenko and Liger would have been according to the brain Jim Cornette too small for U.S. TV. In fact Liger was told that in NJPW, and went to Mexico first before he came back. Liger in 94 in Japan proved others wrong, smaller men all day competing was popular as hell. They were all there, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Psycosis, Rey Mysterio.
Both Malenko, and Liger had matches VS Rey after here and there. They were both short men, and not as heavy as some. To me it was clear that Rey Mysterio was tiny even compared to them. Plus both excelled at amature wrestling first. It showed, Rey was an acrobat. I think he was the first of that wave of wrestling Jim Cornette so hates. But if people like it now, who cares what Jim Cornette thought then, or thinks now. In the 80s people were just not exposed to it, so there was no way to know if they'd like it or not. Many might have liked it in 85 too.
Don't fool yourself, people in 85 laughed at pro wrestling, went to watch it to laugh. Jim thinks they were suspending disbelief, in that tower of doom BS? Some great matches like Flair VS Steamboat might have done it, but 90% of other crap I just re-watched was as fake as anything AEW does now.
Still the best match, but I used to watch Awesome/Tanaka from November To Remember '99. That was the match I used to watch.
"some things just don't go together" - the brilliance of Jim
What kind of fawkin drugs did i do before i came in here 🤣🤣🤣
I think Cornette is omitting the fact that a number of those Cruiserweights went on to become money drawing main event superstars. Mysterio, Eddie, Benoit, Jericho etc. That would have never happened if Bischoff hadn't introduced that style to the mainstream to begin with.
But all those guys were in ECW 94/95 prior to Eric "stealing them" in 96 for WCW starting his war with Heyman
@@wesleymorris2699 um they weren't getting paid really, they didn't have contracts, so how did He steal them?
@@wesleymorris2699 They each had a cup of coffee in ECW but not much more than that. ECW wasn't much more than an indie promotion in 94/95.
@@josiah1218 Heyman for years and years always claimed that Eric was stealing his guys. That whole "ECW Mole" was based on this. Turned out Todd Gordon was the one who was on the phone with Eric giving him names of guys he could use. That is how he was pushed out of ECW and Heyman got full control of the company. Then he aligned himself with Vince in the WWE/ECW vs WCW "Monday Wars" if he promised to "steer" his guys towards WWE and not WCW
@@wesleymorris2699 Bischoff brought in those guys and exposed them to a much bigger audience.
Heyman by a longshot. Nobody chants 'WCW' in the crowd. They still chant 'ECW' to this day.
Heyman showed the value of smaller wrestlers and the luchadores and Bischoff saw it and took it for his own. Heyman loved to book tag team wrestling. In his run as head writer of Smackdown! which had a tremendous jump in the ratings, he made tag teams a focal point. Tag teams aren't a big thing in WWE, but they are in AEW and I think that and the style of tag team wrestling was greatly influenced by Heyman.
The entire turn off the lights or the wrestler's entrance music going off during a run in, etc...it wasn't created by Heyman...but he was the major driving factor. The WWE promoting their brand over the wrestlers...another heavily Heyman influenced idea.
stop saying longshot, it's pretty damn close because you can make a case for both. Bischoff nearly put vince out of business. Surely someone capable of that doesn't lose by a LONGSHOT
people only chant EC-DUB because they want to see hardcore matches lol....thats it. nobody has a reason to chant WCW
that would be stupid...thats like someone randomly chanting TNA it makes no sense. people pull out a table dumb fans start chanting
EC-DUB because they think thats all ECW was only about lol...just like every ECW wrestler they're not over they dont even chant their names
they chant ECW at them lmaoooo
@@167kinggam What did Eric Bischoff ever create that influenced the business? The only star that he freshly developed was Goldberg. Not Hogan, not Hall & Nash, not Sting. And so many others went on to be bigger stars once they went from WCW to the WWE.
I mean in all fairness WCW was never a chant… and it doesn’t exactly glide off the tongue as smoothly as “E-C-DUBB”
@@richiehunt5097 Bischoff is the reason why we have live wrestling on a weekly basis on a weekday. If not for Bischoff, RAW would probably still be taped every other week in the Manhattan Center. He brought PPV style wrestling presentation to audiences. AEW Dynamite and RAW and Smackdown being live in front of big crowds is thanks to Bischoff
Artwork has been on fire lately, love all the new guys and Travis as well!!!
Best wrestling podcast around!!
I always loved the WCW cruiserweight division
Both guys changed the game forever.
I would say Bischoff was more influential short term because he was the last guy to really take it to Vince, but Heyman was/is more influential long term because he inspired so many guys to adopt the hardcore style and he inspired many promoters so copy the ECW's style as well. And Heyman will go down as one of the greatest managers of all time too, something Bischoff can't say.
not only that but bischoff was the first to start monthly ppvs which the wwf would do the same and bischoff became the first television heel authority figure which the wwf would adopt to with the mr mcmahon character bischoff is a wrestling legend whether ppl like him or not
More copies of WCW/nWo Revenge for N64 were sold than the number of people who ever bought tickets to ECW
Cornette basically says at the end of this video that even as far back as 30 years ago people had moved on from the type of wrestling he likes, yet he expects AEW to do that type a show.
Wrestling is a little niche now and AEW has an audience of just over a million fat nerds. Most of their audience has the charm of a Japanese subway groper lol
The time of the heel that cheats was over, it was the anti hero
@@Steve-eq8iz You being one of them obviously
What Bischoff always forgets to mention is all his cruiserweights came to WCW by way of ECW. Heyman found them first. Mysterio, Guerrero, Psicosis, Juventud, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Damian, Ciclope, and I’m sure more I’m forgetting. they all got their first National US tv exposure in ECW. Heyman had Konnan, said bring me your best. He did. When Konnan left ECW, he took ECW’s Luchadores with him. Konnan is really the guy who deserves the nod in bringing those guys to the dance.
WWE is still using Bischoff's style.
If they are, they certainly aren't making good television with it. Then again, I haven't watched WWE programming since March of this year, so I'll button my lip...
Lol you have no idea what you're talking about.
Actually ECW.
WWE, the most successful prowrestling company in the world are using Eric Bischoff's style of television wrestling to this day. I think Bischoff wins this.
But it was paul Heyman's "edgy" style that got them the most popularity and produced a boom period.
Its Heyman. He has one of the greatest minds for wrestling and KNOWS the business. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Heyman and Cornette are two sides of the same coin
Edit: when I say Heyman knows the business I'm talking about psychology and storytelling. Paul couldn't balance the budget to save his life
No need to say it again seeing as how that's been said multiples times by multiple people in the business, stop acting like you're saying something profound
And the answer is BISCHOFF . BY FAR
@@tharealest8190well I'm just saying what I've thought. Didnt realize you were the opinion police. Also quit fanboying over Bischoff
@@savievere9759 actually I spoke ONE sentence with zero context about Bischoff whereas you went on a paragraph long fellatio fest over heyman so who’s the fanboy ?? Make it make sense
Heyman hands down. Heyman lead the way for guys. He was an epic manager that made his guys stars.
Bischoff always followed the star. He was Hogan's shadow. He never really made stars.
*Goldberg
Vince did not make stars. Hogan, Heenan, Gene, Rockers, Perfect were all taken from AWA. Hall, Nash, HHH, Undertaker from WCW.
Easy. Paul E. No Contest. Flawless victory.
Bischoff. Easily. He convinced Hogan to turn heel which led to the NWO.
And guaranteed contracts for Scott hall and Kevin nash
That resulted in a lot more bad than good overall
@@L3ghair lol no nwo ,no wcw nitro ,no attitude era ,no rock and stone cold
The old artwork fit the show better.
Screw it, in a perfect world Jim, Bischoff, and Heyman would all get along and open up a promotion together, and take all the stars from wwe and aew. Some how take all of their best ideas and perfectly fuse them together, but like I said that would be in a perfect world, and currently we're far from that.
only IF! and i mean IF Jim wont try to kill both of them 😂🤣
I love these 3 in anime art style. Makes me wish for an animated series about the Monday night wars and going behind the scenes
LOL what a good idea! If they could keep from getting sued by WWE for trademark infringement and Hogan for not making him look tough enough it’s he great.
"a combination comedy-drama-horror flick with musical interludes"
Someone's gotta tell Jim about the original Wicker Man.
"Go see a combination horror, comedy , drama with musical interludes?"
The Rocky Horror Picture Show? >_>
Jim's musical reference is "Meatloaf." Stuck in the past in every aspect of life. It's not just wrestling.
Paulie is the man, he revolutionized the whole industry so good that his main competitor was paying him to grow talent. Ecw for life
Plus he almost did what I wanted so much. He almost exposed the business of Jim Cornette, though ended up being exposed instead LOL. I watched it yesterday on Peacock again. But Jim later did it. ua-cam.com/video/BLhPqnOcCWs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WWE
Talk about suspending the disbelief, that there will do it!
That's because Paul is the ultimate carnie. No offense to anything he's done. He just knows how to pitch and get people on board.
Everybody who says Eric Bischoff doesn't know shit. The Attitude Era hardcore personalities and match style was wannabe-ECW. The WCW Cruiserweight style wrestling came from ECW and that was the best part of Nitro. It wasn't The Nwo.
Paul Heyman WAS 90's wrestling which was easily the best period in wrestling history.
I have to agree, well said.
Eric came up with the live action Monday Night format. He produced wrestling as a weekly TV show, not just a PPV and house show commercial. TV rights money has transformed the business.
That is a good point. Bischoff changed the way WCW and WWF focused their revenue streams. Before that, free TV events were more like advertisements for the live shows, the wrestling merchandise, and the seasonal PPVs. Bischoff started giving away the entertainment that had peevishly been locked away behind pay walls, under the assumption that the ad revenue and TV contracts would more than make up for a loss in ticket revenue. I think before Bischoff no wrestling promotion would even care about their TV ratings if they were constantly selling out live events.
@@AV57 I appreciate that there's someone on UA-cam who can say it better than I can.
@@edwardfarnsworth5915, you said the same thing; I just added a lot more words to avoid plagiarism charges.
Bisch is a number cruncher. Always has been. Didn't he already have like a couple of decent businesses before getting into TV?
I love both WCW and ECW for different reasons. NWO changed everything, and ECW helped inspire the attitude era
That looks like Penguin and Venom and Corny is Bruce Wayne about to full BATMAN
When it came to 90s WCW, I tuned in to watch the cruiserweights. Psicosis, Ultimo Dragon (the original belt collector), Juventud Guerrera, Eddy and Chavo Guerrero, and Dean Malenko. I loved their matches. I loved everything they did. I honestly switched back to WWE/WWF when the heavyweights came on half the time.
Wasn't Jericho and Benoit, around the same size as Bret and Shawn?? Cruiserweights!
Yea I still don't understand the height thing sometimes dude like kurt angle and ric flair are both like 5'10 and where never huge guys but are some of the most popular wrestlers ever me personally I think versatility in Wrestling is very important becasue let's be real not everyone is 6'2 240 there are some 5'9 190 tough guys and some 6'9 270 wimps lol vince thinks ppl really care that much when we really dont we just want great wrestling and storytelling that makes sense
If Bret was a natural Heavyweight, he was on the limit of the division but HBK was always a Cruiser.
Eric kicked vince's backside for 83 week straight and outdrew wwe numerous times in many matrices in that period.
His style of television production is still emulate to this by wwe.
So Eric is more influential.
Shawn Michaels, a cruiserweight, was also in the thicket of WWF's upper midcard and main event scene around that time even before the rise of guys like Ultimo and Eddie and Jericho.
Paul Heyman. What you seeing right now with him is him ADAPTING to OTHER'S vision, hence the brilliant Bloodline saga. The Bish has his highlights though. It's a slight edge, but I'll give it to Heyman, and only because of adaptability.
Incredible artwork
I thought the cruiserweights were important part of WCW, but i wouldn't want them to be most of the show. There were a lot of old school type veterans from CMLL who wrestled with the wild cruiserweights like Juventud or Psicosis.
I miss the old illustrations imo
My fat ass actually took a second to think if peanut butter would go well with eggs Benedict
bischoff elevated the crusierweights and also started the monthly pay per views which the wwf would adopt and became the first ever heel television authority figure which wwf would also later adopt to with the mr mcmahon character. bischoff is a wrestling legend whether you like him or not
Jericho, Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Eddie and Malenko got over in ECW first. Always remember that
If Corny wasn't so cranky all the time and rage quit everything on a drop of a hat, he would have probably been more influential than both those guys together.
He knows what he does and doesn't like, it's his prerogative like anyone else.
Eric deserves more credit and respect because he made WCW profitable, he nearly put Vince out of business, he made Nitro compelling, the architect behind the nWo, the original heel authority figure, created the elimination chamber and great insight into the business
He only created the elimination chamber in storyline, Triple H actually came up with the idea.
"The architect of the nwo".. you realize he stole the nWo gimmick from Japan right?
ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE THUMBNAIL!👍💯🔥🔥
Bischoff gets WAY too much respect these days
As he should. He's the reason why wrestling is now live on a primetime slot every week on a weekday. He changed the business for the better
Bischoff had the biggest direct and immediate impact on the business with the 83 week run and the NWO, but Heyman had the biggest long term impact. He improved Stone Cold’s promo’s during his stint in ECW, gave Mick Foley the foundation to move onto WWE and become a major star, guided Brock Lesnar to becoming the biggest draw in the industry and championed CM Punk to the main roster to become a star in his own right. That’s just a few off the top of my head, but without Heyman it’s arguable that many of those don’t have the same careers
I think Jim forgets how many great wrestlers were in the cruiserweight division in WCW. I get that everybody tries to do highspot wrestling these days but that doesn't discredit those who use/used it appropriately.
I don't think he forgets, I think he just doesn't want to know, if it's not time locked in 1983 it's of no interest to him
I love hearing how people in the business think about other people. All have different perspectives and relationships, and none can really be refuted because it’s all hearsay and opinion. The evolution of people, characters, wrestling, and how it was promoted is so interesting.
WOW Travis !!! This Rocks !!!
…except he didn't illustrate it…
I'm happy he is doing a little bit of everything. If feel like watching the match i can come back later.
I'd say Heyman.
If bankrupting people, lying to them, & having them do stupid shit for no $. Paul wins
Eric BISCHOFF on AEW. THAT SAYS ALOT while Paul Heyman is doing sports entertainment 🙄
Both companies are lame as shit. Thats why if you pan the audience of both you mostly see fat patchy bearded nerds with all the charm of a Japanese subway groper.
Based on that art style, can we get a jim cornette anime?
An anime about Corny being forced to book a joshi promotion
laughed out loud about the what kind of drugs did i take bit. ha.
Eric still continues to impact wrestling. How many people have a t-shirt in which they are ripping off of the nWo logo? How many guys still do the “too sweet”?
I would say, short-term, Bischoff had the biggest impact but, long-term, Heyman had the biggest influence.
The picture of Bishoff looks like he's out of Metal Gear Solid the game lol, drawing is really really good
Love the guest artists.
Be quiet 🤫
Cornette is basically basing his answer cause he still hates bischoff even after they did that wwe roundtable after they did the wwe hall of fame a few years ago
Going live every week, 3 hour weekly programming and guaranteed contracts. I think Bischoff had a bit more of a lasting impact than Jim gives him credit for.
People talk like Bischoff had unlimited access to Turner's funds, utter nonsense, he was given a budget and not one penny more, no major corporation is going to give some random guy complete unlimited access to their bank accounts, get real 😂
Don’t get me wrong. The new artist is fantastic. But I’m going to miss the goofy happy cartoony Cornette. Anyway, this is a tough call. Obviously Heyman has had the longer running influence. I mean he’s still active in WWE today. But I don’t know. The Monday Night Wars, the Attitude Era, they were a direct response to Bischoff. I think people who say Heyman make good points. Bischoff wasn’t involved in the business as long. But speaking only for myself. as a Gen X fan who watched the Monday Night Wars in high school, I think I may have to say Bischoff.
Heyman do wrestling on TV, Bischoff do TV with wrestling.
Jim was paid to hate Bischoff not his buddy Paul. He was in WWF when they were up against WCW while partnering with ECW .. remember that?? His point of view is biased on this topic for obvious reasons.
Cornette looks like Bono in the artwork
Looks like MJ Kelly.
The clip art is absolutely fire 🔥
Some people forget half of those Cruiser weights were in ECW before WCW so Paul Heyman is more influential
I think Bischoff easily here.
"comedy drama horror flick with musical interludes".
Ayy, Jim's first thought of a disaster of conflicting themes was Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Love this. Jim looks like the main Don. Eric looks like the main villain of the series and Paul E looks like a 40 year old Ash Ketchum
Paul Heyman is the superior wrestling mind but I have to disagree I believe its Eric bischoff. The whole way modern wrestling is presented on television for the last 25 years is because of him. Before Monday night Nitro it was still 1980s low budget presentation pretaped with job matches for the good or bad its Bischoff. Everytime time any wrestling show on TV starts with fireworks and a talking segment that's Eric Bischoff.
This art is fucking boss level. We need more.
First thought from the headline was Paul Heyman but let's see..... Nice to hear JC break it down like this
Eddie Guerrero got his US debut in ecw. Paul Heyman is not even close. Who's still employed? Eric lost $62 million dollars in one year? That's a special person right there
Corny's Cartoon Rendition in This ArtWork, Has Him Looking Like "Dr.Trask" from *'X-MEN:TheAnimatedSeries"!*
(Maybe "Senator Kelly"...but Mostly "Dr.Trask"! 😜 )
None of the work looks like any of those he is seeking to portray in his artwork.