I think the Silmarillion is definitely the 'next level' when it comes to Tolkien. One can sit down and read The Hobbit and LOTR and be entertained, while the Silmarillion requires the reader to really want to become familiair with the deeper lore, and be willing to 'work' for it. I found that just jumping in and not trying to memorize all the names in the more expositional chapters helps a great deal. When you get to the more story-like chapters, the names will start to get a face and more personality to attach the names to. I also greatly profited from reading Children of Húrin first.
I am reading the Children of Hurin now after having read the Silmarillion. I find it way more enjoyable, because it adds details to the story told in the Silmarillion and I can read through it faster.
I first got into the Silmarillion when I was about 14, I remember enjoying it for the most part, but also skipping some passages (like the geographical descriptions of Beleriand). I also couldn't for the life of me keep track of who is who (looking at you, Finwe's clan!) so I kind of glossed over chunks of the book. I pretty much forgot everything that happened in the book (except for the story of the Children of Hurin, which I really love for some reason). Now I found myself in the mood for Tolkien again and decided to give Silmarillion another try, and I'm absolutely in love. It's somehow easier for me now to make sense of the genealogy and the sometimes fragmented pieces of information, and I also feel enamoured with the overall vibe (for the lack of a better world) of the story - the themes, the poetic language, the myhtology, the ethereal and otherwordly atmosphere and the medieval romance-esque stories. I can see how some people may be scared away from it, but I guess my point is to maybe give the Silm a second shot ater some time.
Cool, I am also currently rereading it :-) What makes it "hard" to read imho is that it becomes ever more tragic and depressing the further you progress 😅
It’s mythological writing I read it last summer and loved its escapism and vivid imagery one of the richest books I’ve ever read ... the way he summarises the lord of the rings in three pages made me smile
I like the Silmarillion, it reads like the Bible. But the tone of the writing is a lot more consistent because it was written by one person. When I read the first few pages, I don’t understand every character name and every act, but I get the sense that he’s trying to tap into the unconscious mind. There’s a very spiritual style of consciousness when he writes in this manner, it invokes an atmosphere of creativity and inner expression. Its a very intuitive feeling that the evokes.
That sounds like such an interesting way to write a fantasy book. Though I've read that this turned a lot of people off, as it isn't a traditional narrative.
@@maxpaynegk I get the sense that he's trying to evoke spiritual imagery. If you are into psychoanalytical archetypes of Carl Jung, and approach it from that perspective of typology, archetypes, the four temperaments and the concepts of yin and yang, I think its slightly easier to intuit what the beginning section of the Silmarillion is describing. I don't feel like its supposed to be understood on a literal level, he seems to be speaking about the act of creativity, and how there are various elements, and he uses language in a way that permeates your inner being, I don't think you could necessarily approach the narrative in an intellectual way. Its more like reading it as a religious text, you sort of believe in this literal God that created the music and whatnot and it seems very wondrous and mystical.
That they are Elves makes it even harder as they do not just die off and leave the stage for a new generation. But a family tree should alleviate that similar names problem.
For whatever reason, I found the Silmarillion much easier to read than The Lord of the Rings. I couldn't get past The Two Towers, but the Silmarillion was right up my alley. I'm just weird that way, lol.
I think you are like me, more into the back story and history of a story (The Silmarillion) than the main story itself (The Hobbit and LOTR). Plus, wanting to know more about the elves, that's what got me hooked.
I agee wholeheartedly. The style of the Silmarillion is so pleasant and concise, similar to the narrative style of the Old Testament. On the contrary I found the lengthy descriptions of landscape in Lotr hard to follow and even skipped some. (I am not a native english speaker)
I first read The Silmarillion in 1980 as an 8th grader, a year after having finished LOTR. I never had any difficulty whatsoever and typically re-read it every few years.
I was in the second grade when I read the Hobbit. I used to save up my allowance to buy those books at the Raleigh Springs Mall in Memphis, which I grew up next to. Walden books was my store. They were running for about $2.50 in those days. I had read all the LOTR books by about the third grade, and then I tried The Silmarillion. I returned it to that store within a couple of days, maybe a week. I remember the guys working at that store being somewhat bemused at this little boy returning this book, because I think they were fantasy geeks like me, and they genuinely wanted to know why I was returning it. I basically told them it wasn’t like the other books, and didn’t meet my expectations. I had to grow up a little bit. I bought it again a few years later and loved it.
You explained this really nicely, you've earned a sub. I started reading the Silmarillion a couple years back and couldn't get far into it. Recently picked it up again and I am really enjoying it. I've been making notes on the names and made sure to use the index as I go along.
As a Catholic, Tolkien would have read and have reference to the _Douay-Rheims_ translation of the Bible and not the _King James_ version, but your point is correct. Another great video!
Not neccessarily. The KJV permeates English culture (just like Luther's translation permeates German culture, even for Catholics). Furthermore, the most common Douay-Reims version is actually a revised version with lots of input from the KJV.
Anyone who has read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, recognizes Tolkien's style in the Silmarillion immediately. I found the Silmarillion infinitely comfortable and loved his mythological narrative in that work. And much like the Old Testament, the Silmarillion is not just a story but a world history of Arda. I found it beautiful.
Word order does matter in all European languages in older periods and current spoken language. Tolkien uses an older grammar style similar to King James period which has some grammar rules that are closer to modern German. Perfect tense that usually uses the helper verb (to have) is sometimes changed to (to be). For instance Tolkien writes: "When they were to come into the void." Current English would say you would write this "When they had come into the void." This comes from the Germanic side of English. Modern German makes these distinctions; some verbs are transitive so you use perfect tense helper verb (to be) instead of (to have). Example of the differences: I have never seen the library. Ich habe die Bibliothek noch nie gesehen. This is non-transitive. SO it would be the same helper verb: to have. But this changes when you start showing motion to a location. I had never been to the library. Would be: I was never to the library. Current German makes this distinction today: Ich war noch nie in der Bibliothek. Partly why German doesn't use the "I am...." when describing what you're currently doing. "I'm watching tv." "I'm reading a book." "I'm talking on the phone." As we in current English. German simply states "I watch tv." "I read a book." They have verb conjugation to do imply currency. So essentially, the Grammar (word order) is older archaic style in the King James period. And if you are not familiar with Germanic languages and how our language came to be, then this could make reading difficult. When you are aware, it makes you smile and think, oh wow this was when our language grammar was still somewhat similar to German grammar. And he organizes the stories in an Abrahamic method of telling a story: in an onion. Telling a story that already has dense detail, but not all of it, often eluding to other things, but not finishing any detail on it. Then he tells it again, but adds more detail or summarizes the detail in the last before expanding more. So it becomes a collection of stories like an onion coming to the starting point then going further and coming back again as the story is expanded. The density of all the names and peculiar phonetics of the names and categories makes it difficult too. AINULINDALË for instance is rather hard to pronounce. I suggest to listen to the audio recording then come back to read it yourself and even with the recording. And because it's written in such a dense matter similar to religious texts, you have to return to chapters, as you'll forget and miss critical details. What I find beautiful about the way Tolkien wrote the Silmarillion that it sounds smooth and it's very poetic. And you can hear the archaic (yet still modern) English. It's not in Middle or Old English... the word aren't extinct and more German. They're just archaic. Fallen out of use. And the grammar method too is different. And he's not super rigid. So he's not always in the King James motif. Otherwise it would be even more of a pain to read. Instead he peppers such motifs often during dialogue with grand creatures I think to denote their ancientness or divinity. A beautifully written exert below: Eru is speaking to Ulmo as they Ainur are gazing upon the vision: "And Ilúvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of thy clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the ever changing mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwë, thy friend, whom thou lovest.' Then Ulmo answered: 'Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain. I will seek Manwë, that he and I may make melodies for ever to thy delight!' And Manwë and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied, and in all things have served most faithfully the purpose of Ilúvatar. "
It's easier to follow character namesin a story when they have a face, and what they look like. It's much easier to associates names with a face rather than from your imagination, because sometimes or often your brain creates different versions on what they look like or isn't completely sure how to imagine the character. My brother explained to me about this Manga he'd been reading and he was giving me all of these names but I got confused. But when I saw their faces and read some of the Manga it was easier to remember
Listening to the audiobook of The Silmarillion over and again was a help to me. I enjoy it much more in that mode, as reading it to me (and I'm sorry I'm so late on this, I've been unable to enjoy these videos due to too many personal life issues) it can become quite an anesthetic, but this is due to my poor choices in times of reading. Before bed isn't the best time to read for the sake of absorbing the material. Artistically speaking, the archaic writing "works" for lack of a better term. It does add to the majesty and the sense of antiquity of the story, and I don't have a problem with it, really. Due to the fact that it remained so incomplete, though, it is rather frustrating to not have the dialogue and experiences we'd love to have that exist in works like The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, but it is what it is, and the antiquity of the events that take place there make it wholly suitable for the stories to be told this way. When so much happens, though, it's easy to get overwhelmed, and filled with disappointment at the lack of details in something that we were so interested in. I won't give any spoilers, but it would have been good to know more about how Elrond felt having gone through what he did. Information on the politics and doings of Dwarves is a bit scanty. What were the deeds of Feanor that vexed his wife so much? It's good enough that we have abstracts, really, because so much time had to be covered, but we're at least talking about it decades after it was written, and it's an excellent bit of storytelling on its own, and enriches reading The Lord of the Rings especially, because you understand the significance of some of the dialogue of Gandalf in particular, and Aragorn. Even Gildor.
I first tried reading it when I was probably 12 or 13, and I stood no chance. After reading LOTR and the Hobbit at least a dozen times, I had enough to at least finish the Silmarillion the first time. What really got me to understand it as well as I do now is when I stumbled across the audiobook. It was over then. Ive listened to the Silmarillion audiobook at least 50 times all the way through. I listen to it at work, at night, all the time. Then I started listening to the rest of the mythology on audiobook and now, Im a Tolkien expert. I have all the audiobooks and books, I have the Children of Hurin read by Christopher Lee, I wish they would make a Fall of Gondolin audiobook. The Silmarillion is written like a religious text. I think its supposed to be the Elvish Bible. If it had all the stories and books Tolkien finished or alluded to, all in one large text, it would be a comprehensive religious text. A religion around the Silmarillion could easily be created, centered around Eru Iluvatar and men could imitate the Numenoreans at their height as a righteous people, before their fall.
oh god lol. i tried reading the bible but it just doesn’t make sense to me. hope i can understand this book😂 all the old stories and battles and shit really interests me
@@mattyicicles1608 listen, it's an awesome read, that part is just the beginning. It tries to get you to understand different characters and how they relate later on in the story. Trust me, you won't regret reading that book
ironwork92000 thank u man!! i’m so excited. i never read any of the books but someone read me the Hobbit as a kid. and absolutely love all 3 LOTR movies. this should be fun
@@mattyicicles1608 man, not a problem. Once you read Silmarillion, you're gonna have such a better knowledge on the universe, you're gonna see how much smaller the ring trilogy actually is compared to the history of middle earth, lol. I promise you won't regret it
Someone once told me that reading the Silmarillion was like reading the Bible in Chinese. As much as I loved Middle-Earth, that saying intimidated me enough to stay away from the book for a good number of years until the temptation became too much one day. Although I didn't understand parts of it, and I certainly won't remember everything from it, I didn't want it to end. It didn't read like a story, no, but learning about the history, lore, creations, and the countless characters and the roles they played fascinated me to no end. All of a sudden everything that happened in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings held more meaning, and *so* much had happened before those stories even took place. This may sound sappy and ridiculous, but I shed tears when I finished The Silmarillion. It's easily the best fantasy book I've read.
When the book came out in the late 1970's, the Time Magazine review spoke of the book not having Tolkien's "sparkling prose", as is found in The Hobbit, for example. The book was published after his demise, & was compiled by his son Christopher. Those are some cool wall adornments btw.
@@TolkienLorePodcast You've welcome, mon ami. I did some looking for a suitable benediction...from one Tolkien geek to another. May this suffice. www.elvish.org/gwaith/elrond.htm
I have read hundred of books but I've never been able to finish a Tolkien. I'm on chapter 11 of the Silmarillian audiobook and it is a lot! But so interesting. Thank you for the synopsis videos it really helps
Yes! While reading the Appendices and The Silmarillion, I’ve gotten a lot of biblical writing feelings from it so your comparisons really sound accurate!
I'm currently about 120 pages into Silmarillion now, I think the hardest thing for me is the names and places. So many places are mentioned but without being given enough time to process it all (and the map included with the book isn't all that helpful either since Aman isn't showen anywhere
Thank you......you have described this work accurately. I've read it three times in a 15 yr time span and find the prose enchanting. Originally became interested through the LOTR films. The core messages are the same. I'm not religious. But the envy and covetousness of the silmarils and later the ring are the same. It's a complex work of great beauty....most people are too intellectually lazy to contemplate it. Or maybe too busy ....I have found it must be read slowly and savored.
It's not hard but beautiful. The reason I loved it is because of its archaic style. The reason I was enamored was because of how beautiful and deep the words were. I have always loved classical literature and found them to be orgasmic. This is where one can appreciate language to tell a story. It is indeed one of the best stories, but what makes it my favourite of all time is of how it uses words beautifully to describe an event, character, and philosophy. It just is beautiful.
I am almost through my first reading of The Silmarillion, and I think it's a book that benefits from a second reading. The second time will be much easier, knowing what to expect. I plan on reading books like " Beren and Lüthien", "The Children of Hürin" & "The fall of Gondolin" before re-, reading the Silmarillion. That ought to help.
Been listening to it on youtube while I work and it's much easier than reading. You sort of need to absord it via osmosis. If I zone out and miss a part, I just listen again the next day. It's been a nice calming background sound while still allowing me to get my work done.
I have no problems with the style and it’s not boring at all, but it’s a total information overload with all the names (especially as I listen to the audiobook and cannot just flip to the back of the book to look at family trees). This is why I like your podcast. You cross-reference and repeat information of what happened to a character before event X and how this influences the character’s behavior at event X.
I am reading the Silmarillion for the first time and it took me time to figure out how to understand the names and language ("mor-" meaning dark; "anor" meaning sun; "el[en]-" meaning star; -r or -i to make plurals, etc.) but constant exposure is certainly helping a lot. Also, the references in the Hobbit and LOTR finally make so much more sense!
It probably helps that I am a linguaphile and have a background in a few languages, so looking at Tolkien's use and patterns of Quenya and Sindarin are repetitive, and the pronunciation is quite regular and easy enough. Regular enough that the audiobook's pronunciation of "Ilúvatar" irks me (it aught to be "i-LOO-vah-tar" rather than "i-loo-VAT-tar")
Agreed; when I first read it back in '77 as a teenager (I was already drenched in LotR), I viewed the Silmarillion as an ancient and sacred history. Its lofty grandiloquence is an essential characteristic of the medium through which such fundamental (in Tolkien's universe) material is conveyed.
I've read the Silmarillion three times. Tolkien left notes for the book but some parts were more complete than others. Some only existed as point form notes and were finished by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay. I think the parts which flow as narative such as Beren and Luthien, Turam Turumbar, and the Fall of Gondolin were more or less complete and written by J R R himself and the others were finished only from his notes.
I don’t think it’s particularly to read, although I didn’t make it through on my first attempt because I was expecting a more direct prequel to LotR and wasn’t ready for it. Once I tried again and got through it, it quickly became my favorite Tolkien work. I also recommend listening to the audiobook version as well, it’s almost as if much of it was written to be read aloud
Hobbit is the fairy tale people of Middle Earth tell their children. Lord of the Rings is a merge of an epos and a chronicle, written by the mystical creature called hobbit about the 'recent' history of the Middle Earth. Silmarillion is the mythos, the collection of writtings incluiding myths of creation, history and heroism, establishing the mythology of the world. Together with some more flashed out stories which Tolkien wrote to her wife or about them and/or on the front of a war.
Genre is a history encyclopedia and/or a comprehensive history (school) book. Which is really easy to read. İf you don't try memorizing names as if you re going to get a quiz afterwards, but try learning the history, by going back to look at said names of people and places. You don't study your history book by reading it one way one time and memorizing while you re reading. At least I can't. in short, it's not a novel. But is a legitimate good book. Asocial s like me gets to enjoy skipping people s names, and go back to see who the (generally) guy is. it's easy. Just relax. There won't be a test afterwards. Even though it's a study book.
I read Silmarillion first time in my native language so I didn't have to deal with archaic English, which was something that eased up things. When someone asks how to approach Silmarillion, I tell them this: it's not really a novel. It's part history book, part philosophy book, so to speak, written by 2 narrators (that's what Tolkien wanted us to believe). To fully appreciate it, be prepared to read it twice or three times. First reading, skip Ainulindale. Read Valaquenta just to have a grasp who's who within Ainur and refer to it later as necessary. Read Quenta Silmarillion. Then take a break and go back to read Ainulindale and Valaquenta again. Probably you'll understand behavior and motivation of some key players much better...then proceed to read Quenta Silmarillion again and then Akallabeth should be a breeze esp if you've read LOTR recently.
When I explain it to people I tell them it's in an interesting read, BUT it's a hard read. I tell them its like reading the bible and and college history book rolled into one!
My hang-up with reading The Silmarillion (of course, I was barely in High School at the time), was that I had the wrong expectations. I had just read The Lord of the Rings and I had a lot of questions regarding things like: who is Gandalf and where did he come from? Where did the rings come from and how were they made? What about Frodo's parents and how did they die? Why do Bilbo and Frodo dislike the Sackville Bagginses so much? What are all of the ruins all around Middle Earth and what are their histories? etc., etc. I started reading, or trying to read, The Silmarillion, and it was reading like Genesis. I just thought, "What is this?" Where is the good stuff? So I skipped on a bit and I never saw a page that mentioned Gandalf, or hobbits, or anything like what I was expecting. And then I looked at the maps and saw lands that I did not recognize at all (what is this Beleriand??). It was not meeting my needs at the time, so I put it down and didn't come back to it until very recently. Now that I understand what it is, I can appreciate it on its own terms. But I would summarize by just saying that I had very wrong expectations, so that was why I couldn't get into it. (I do now! I love it! And I'm now reading Unfinished Tales.)
Very interesting topic. When reading the Portuguese version of the Silmarillion we don't get the sense of "lack of order" you mention, perhaps precisely because the word order in the Latin system doesn't make as much difference as it does in the (modern) English language. It is much more difficult for us Portuguese speakers to read, for example, the first translation (from Spanish) of Don Quixote de La Mancha, with countless archaic terms and disused words, and a much more complex sentence construction than the one currently used in both (modern) Spanish and Portuguese.
I Must admit after seeing the P,Js adaptation of the FotR back in 2001, I'm like.. wtf have I just watched and is there more.... until that point, I didn't have a foggyest or any idea about Tolkien's world or writings.. Then My sister gave me a copy of the Hobbit and before I knew it I'd read all up to RotK and like.. that can't be it..... Then After playing LotrO for many years (a good 5 or 6 lol) a friend online recommended me to read the silmarillion? Again I was clueless to this books existence, So after months of searching I couldn't at the time find a paper back/hard back copy in my town or city library.. So then around 2007-8 after searching online, I came across a Audiobook version and WoW it blew my mind, definitely took me a few times listening to actually grasp the storylines I won't lie, then eventually I purchasing a copy, and yes it's a hard read I found aswell, but because of the audio version I already had a pretty good idea of the names and story plot.. I think now I have read the Silmarillion probably 4-5 times since then and Still love it and it definitely holds a proud spot on my bookcase
For me, The Silmarillion is not so much hard to read but difficult to focus, absorb and remember all of the information. There is so much information that multiple readings are required. I prefer to listened to the audiobook. Have done so twice in 2020 during lockdowns, listening again in Jan 2021 and there is so much to forget. An animated version, true to the book would be a exciting.
I just think you have to approach it differently to other books, if you slow read it & take your time to take everything in it's not too much trouble. The first time I read it I spent as much time refering to the back of the book as I did reading the actual story but it's such a rewarding book if you stop to absorb everything he's written. To me it's a study & I wanted more... I do think you need to have a keen interest in the lore to enjoy it tho, not everyone who read The Hobbit & the LOTR's realy cares about that, only what's happening here & now.
I hate to call it a handicap, but as English isn't my first language, it can be a hindrance at times when it comes to reading and understanding epic texts, such as the Silmarillion, critically. On top of that, I didn't grow up in an environment where reading was encouraged; I developed an interest for it due to my love of screen adaptations of classic novels, like David Copperfield. I taught myself to become fluent in the English language, more or less, by immersing myself in reading more challenging texts, with Lord of the Rings being one of them. Following my conversion to Christianity at 17, I became familiar with the prose of the King James Bible, as I read it practically every Wednesday and Sunday, for Worship service and Thanksgiving. So, when I finally got my copy of the Silmarillion, feeling thrown off by the archaic words and prose style wasn't the actual issue for me; it was the condense history and genealogies that never seemed to cease that would distract my train of thought as I read and lose my focus on the important details. I've never been a fan of history, unless it was the historical accounts of Biblical figures, but history in general just wasn't interesting enough for me. Nevertheless, I did grow to love the Silmarillion - not necessarily for the history or lore of Middle Earth itself, but for introducing new themes to me that spoke to my Christian sensibilities. I know my comment is like years late, but I've been binge-watching your Silmarillion playlist, and I'd like to thank you for creating this type of content. It's helpful to Tolkien readers in general, but it's especially helpful to people such as myself, whose English isn't their native language. Moreover, I appreciate your delivery; it's not condescending or arrogant. You remind me of a teacher, and I sincerely meant that as a compliment.
I've started out by listening to the audiobook of The Silmarillion. This was a mixed experience. It was good to hear the names/words pronounced, however, being a visual learner it made it harder to remember them. You don't read The Silmarillion, you study it, which for me has meant listening/reading it repeatedly and listening/watching explanations of it on the internet. I tried reading an ebook but I've managed to get a paperback of the book and I'm hoping that I will be able to read it through once I have studied it further.
The Silmarillion is better than the Lord of the Rings, there's so many characters and concepts where you want to know more. For instance: what were the full thought processes of the Valar, what were their true characters? Or Eru- Did he want to be worshipped? Does he intend for Arda to be completely destroyed after the many ages of man's dominance and then for the world to be resurrected? The elves- when Arda ends will they join all the men who have died and form a new Arda or a new Earth? Our Earth? Or are they immortal as long as Arda exists and thus face a complete termination of their existence when Arda comes to an end? Or Melian the Maia, how I wish Tolkien wrote more about her for she is a character who stays pure, true and wise but is marred by her physical existence and suffers repeated tragedies in the last years of her life in Middle Earth- why did she stay with Thingol when she saw his fate and could see his goodly character become consumed with greed for the simaril? Or what was life like for Beren and Luthien after they are resurrected (and after Luthien becomes a mortal), did they fear death? Why did they die so quickly, was it because they were never supposed to return to mortal life? Did Luthien ever regret her choice? Simarillion- what a book!
I'm listening to it on Audible. I do better hearing books than I do reading, my eyes are really bad and I get tired easily when reading. The Silmarillion had SO MUCH good stuff.
I first read The Silmarillion in 8th grade. I never found it a hard read, but I did note that it wasn't really a novel -- it reads more like a history book or mythology text. I can see how this could seem harder to those not use to it, or simply not what someone use to contemporary novels would expect.
Personally the Silmarillion no longer feels hard to read because of its style. The ever increasing tragedy and depressing events make it hard to continue smiling 😅
It’s a dry straight forward story of its own Genesis and history. I love it but I also read my entire encyclopedia over and over. There are so many names and sons of so and so and daughters of so and so that it’s hard to retain.
@@klutttmuttsprutt6087 Classic! The best way is, if you want to read something hard, read something harder first! I read the Lays of Beleriand before I read LotR in English. I barely understood anything at the start and only got somewhat by because I knew the general outline of the story from Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales (read in Czech). Not only was it as archaic as the more archaic passages in LotR/Silmarillion, it was a poetry in old alliterative, non-rhyming, Anglosaxon metre... but by the end my English comprehension level went twofold and LotR was a breeze, which it wouldn't have been before. :D
Interesting. I’ve always thought LotR was the hardest one to read. Many reasons. But Hobbit was easy. And I found Silmarillion easier than LotR as well. 🤷♀️
Who said so?A page of the Silmarillion = 20 to 60 in a normal narrative Its a compendium of Elvish lore,mixed up with human cosmological "guesses" (for the Tar Eldar surely would know the "truth regarding Arda.Hence the flat earth,world made round,sun and moon made from the last fruit and flower of the trees and such..All beautiful concepts but second hand.Some assume if you did not have the sun and moon being made from them the two trees,a vital part of the mythos,would have to go also.Why?Make their light a more transcendent one which lights Valinor etc alone.(check out myths transformed and the nature of middle earth.)Also after the Spring Of Arda is ruined make Arda literally under volcanic clouds of ash and dust,a age of darkness until just before the elves awaken when Manwe and Varda intercede.The fumes and clouds disperse and the stars shine out in time for the Elves to aqaken.
Not in a dedicated way. Unfinished Tales has a lot of 2nd Age material though, and the Silmarillion chapter “Akallabeth” gives a birds eye view of Numenor’s decline and fall.
Because it is a Literary Experiment, posing as a Religious/Historical Document, not really a coherent story. Christopher did his best. Only so much one can do and stay true to the original work.
It's not hard to read at all. Try reading Chaucer, or some of the Norse sagas, or perhaps direct translations of the surviving sections of Beowulf if you like being challenged by archaic language
I find it is the opposite. The Silmarillion is gripping, it never stops. The Lord of the Rings is filled with lots of description that slows the story way down. I love both, but the Silmarillion is definitely better.
I dont think it's really a hard "read" its just the info that is given to you in certain stories like "names, geographical places" can make a bit confusing to follow at times..if you truly want to understand whats happening you kinda have to "stop reading" and look at a map and reread the family lineage of elves to re-establish who and where stuff is..I find flipping to the Sundering of Elves to be a big help
The English language did not develop in the traditional sense. It went around mugging the other languages and kinda cobbled itself together by accident.
I love Tolkien’s work, but he’s a bad writer. His best written work is the Hobbit. I don’t love his work because of the prose (and certainly not his characterisations) but because of the concepts and layers of myth and history. In many ways TLOTR is a bad novel. No skill in exposition - just have some dude make a big speech. No interesting characters (who aren’t hobbits). And no skill in structuring timelines and concurrent events. But I love it still
Memorizing all the names across the ages is probably the biggest challenge.. Especially all the Elf names beginning with 'F'. LOL
Right.
Yes!
Ironically, none of Feanor's sons have names starting with F.
You mean As. Amros and Amrad are brain fuckers.
Don't memorize them. Revel in them!
I think the Silmarillion is definitely the 'next level' when it comes to Tolkien. One can sit down and read The Hobbit and LOTR and be entertained, while the Silmarillion requires the reader to really want to become familiair with the deeper lore, and be willing to 'work' for it. I found that just jumping in and not trying to memorize all the names in the more expositional chapters helps a great deal. When you get to the more story-like chapters, the names will start to get a face and more personality to attach the names to.
I also greatly profited from reading Children of Húrin first.
I remember being totally overwhelmed by just the first page of Children of Húrin lmao. Definitely requires a more mature approach
I am reading the Children of Hurin now after having read the Silmarillion. I find it way more enjoyable, because it adds details to the story told in the Silmarillion and I can read through it faster.
I first got into the Silmarillion when I was about 14, I remember enjoying it for the most part, but also skipping some passages (like the geographical descriptions of Beleriand). I also couldn't for the life of me keep track of who is who (looking at you, Finwe's clan!) so I kind of glossed over chunks of the book. I pretty much forgot everything that happened in the book (except for the story of the Children of Hurin, which I really love for some reason). Now I found myself in the mood for Tolkien again and decided to give Silmarillion another try, and I'm absolutely in love. It's somehow easier for me now to make sense of the genealogy and the sometimes fragmented pieces of information, and I also feel enamoured with the overall vibe (for the lack of a better world) of the story - the themes, the poetic language, the myhtology, the ethereal and otherwordly atmosphere and the medieval romance-esque stories. I can see how some people may be scared away from it, but I guess my point is to maybe give the Silm a second shot ater some time.
Cool, I am also currently rereading it :-) What makes it "hard" to read imho is that it becomes ever more tragic and depressing the further you progress 😅
Scientists use the Children of Hurin for researching antidepressants.
It’s mythological writing I read it last summer and loved its escapism and vivid imagery one of the richest books I’ve ever read ... the way he summarises the lord of the rings in three pages made me smile
İndeed😁
I find that using an audiobook alongside reading it helps greatly.
Agree
Same thing with LOTR
I concur. Imagine an animated production true to the book.
I much prefer reading the Silmarillion, I think it's because it reads more like a history book, as opposed to a "novel"
Aaron Ives that’s exactly what it is
I like the Silmarillion, it reads like the Bible. But the tone of the writing is a lot more consistent because it was written by one person. When I read the first few pages, I don’t understand every character name and every act, but I get the sense that he’s trying to tap into the unconscious mind. There’s a very spiritual style of consciousness when he writes in this manner, it invokes an atmosphere of creativity and inner expression. Its a very intuitive feeling that the evokes.
That sounds like such an interesting way to write a fantasy book. Though I've read that this turned a lot of people off, as it isn't a traditional narrative.
@@maxpaynegk I get the sense that he's trying to evoke spiritual imagery. If you are into psychoanalytical archetypes of Carl Jung, and approach it from that perspective of typology, archetypes, the four temperaments and the concepts of yin and yang, I think its slightly easier to intuit what the beginning section of the Silmarillion is describing. I don't feel like its supposed to be understood on a literal level, he seems to be speaking about the act of creativity, and how there are various elements, and he uses language in a way that permeates your inner being, I don't think you could necessarily approach the narrative in an intellectual way. Its more like reading it as a religious text, you sort of believe in this literal God that created the music and whatnot and it seems very wondrous and mystical.
never read a history book in any way similar to the silmarillion
Tolkien is a genius... insane fantasy he had!
Great man
I am currently reading the silmarillion and I think it is really hard to separate all the characters bevause their namens are all so similar 😂😂
Yes and there are SO MANY characters that I just don’t care anymore! So many places and names!!!!!
Brooo me to: Fingon, Fingolfin, Feanor, Fingol
absolutely fcks my brain xD
Yes learning the names of places and people's are difficult.
I used an audiobook and had to write down notes to even try to understand
That they are Elves makes it even harder as they do not just die off and leave the stage for a new generation. But a family tree should alleviate that similar names problem.
For whatever reason, I found the Silmarillion much easier to read than The Lord of the Rings. I couldn't get past The Two Towers, but the Silmarillion was right up my alley. I'm just weird that way, lol.
Probably because of the long descriptive passages in LOTR.
I think you are like me, more into the back story and history of a story (The Silmarillion) than the main story itself (The Hobbit and LOTR). Plus, wanting to know more about the elves, that's what got me hooked.
I agee wholeheartedly. The style of the Silmarillion is so pleasant and concise, similar to the narrative style of the Old Testament. On the contrary I found the lengthy descriptions of landscape in Lotr hard to follow and even skipped some. (I am not a native english speaker)
Your a god !..
bigby wolf reading Tolkien’s work when it isn’t even your first language? Wow l and many other could never do that
I first read The Silmarillion in 1980 as an 8th grader, a year after having finished LOTR. I never had any difficulty whatsoever and typically re-read it every few years.
Man, how in the world do you not have more subscribers? So glad I found your channel just now.
I was in the second grade when I read the Hobbit. I used to save up my allowance to buy those books at the Raleigh Springs Mall in Memphis, which I grew up next to. Walden books was my store. They were running for about $2.50 in those days. I had read all the LOTR books by about the third grade, and then I tried The Silmarillion. I returned it to that store within a couple of days, maybe a week. I remember the guys working at that store being somewhat bemused at this little boy returning this book, because I think they were fantasy geeks like me, and they genuinely wanted to know why I was returning it. I basically told them it wasn’t like the other books, and didn’t meet my expectations. I had to grow up a little bit. I bought it again a few years later and loved it.
the tolkien encyclopedia with genealogy trees and maps was a great help for me while reading silmarillion
You explained this really nicely, you've earned a sub. I started reading the Silmarillion a couple years back and couldn't get far into it. Recently picked it up again and I am really enjoying it. I've been making notes on the names and made sure to use the index as I go along.
Smart move.
As a Catholic, Tolkien would have read and have reference to the _Douay-Rheims_ translation of the Bible and not the _King James_ version, but your point is correct. Another great video!
No doubt he would have preferred the former but it's incredibly hard for an educated Christian of his era not to be familiar with the KJV.
The Catholic Jerusalem Bible had him on its editorial committee.
Not neccessarily.
The KJV permeates English culture (just like Luther's translation permeates German culture, even for Catholics). Furthermore, the most common Douay-Reims version is actually a revised version with lots of input from the KJV.
Anyone who has read the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, recognizes Tolkien's style in the Silmarillion immediately. I found the Silmarillion infinitely comfortable and loved his mythological narrative in that work. And much like the Old Testament, the Silmarillion is not just a story but a world history of Arda. I found it beautiful.
It reads like the King James Bible.
EDIT: Well, I wrote that comment before our host made the KJB comparison.
Word order does matter in all European languages in older periods and current spoken language.
Tolkien uses an older grammar style similar to King James period which has some grammar rules that are closer to modern German.
Perfect tense that usually uses the helper verb (to have) is sometimes changed to (to be).
For instance Tolkien writes: "When they were to come into the void."
Current English would say you would write this "When they had come into the void."
This comes from the Germanic side of English.
Modern German makes these distinctions; some verbs are transitive so you use perfect tense helper verb (to be) instead of (to have).
Example of the differences:
I have never seen the library.
Ich habe die Bibliothek noch nie gesehen.
This is non-transitive. SO it would be the same helper verb: to have.
But this changes when you start showing motion to a location.
I had never been to the library.
Would be: I was never to the library. Current German makes this distinction today:
Ich war noch nie in der Bibliothek.
Partly why German doesn't use the "I am...." when describing what you're currently doing.
"I'm watching tv." "I'm reading a book." "I'm talking on the phone." As we in current English.
German simply states "I watch tv." "I read a book."
They have verb conjugation to do imply currency.
So essentially, the Grammar (word order) is older archaic style in the King James period. And if you are not familiar with Germanic languages and how our language came to be, then this could make reading difficult.
When you are aware, it makes you smile and think, oh wow this was when our language grammar was still somewhat similar to German grammar.
And he organizes the stories in an Abrahamic method of telling a story: in an onion. Telling a story that already has dense detail, but not all of it, often eluding to other things, but not finishing any detail on it. Then he tells it again, but adds more detail or summarizes the detail in the last before expanding more. So it becomes a collection of stories like an onion coming to the starting point then going further and coming back again as the story is expanded.
The density of all the names and peculiar phonetics of the names and categories makes it difficult too. AINULINDALË for instance is rather hard to pronounce.
I suggest to listen to the audio recording then come back to read it yourself and even with the recording.
And because it's written in such a dense matter similar to religious texts, you have to return to chapters, as you'll forget and miss critical details.
What I find beautiful about the way Tolkien wrote the Silmarillion that it sounds smooth and it's very poetic. And you can hear the archaic (yet still modern) English. It's not in Middle or Old English... the word aren't extinct and more German. They're just archaic. Fallen out of use. And the grammar method too is different. And he's not super rigid. So he's not always in the King James motif. Otherwise it would be even more of a pain to read. Instead he peppers such motifs often during dialogue with grand creatures I think to denote their ancientness or divinity.
A beautifully written exert below: Eru is speaking to Ulmo as they Ainur are gazing upon the vision:
"And Ilúvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of thy clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost!
Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the ever changing mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwë, thy friend, whom thou lovest.'
Then Ulmo answered: 'Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain. I will seek Manwë, that he and I may make melodies for ever to thy delight!'
And Manwë and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied, and in all things have served most faithfully the purpose of Ilúvatar. "
Those Germanic roots are also why the rule about not ending a sentence in “to” is balderdash. ;)
Like the the Silmarillion, this took several readings. You should have heard me attempt to speak German. ha ha.
this was one of the best comments i have ever seen
So I just finished the silmarillion and it was such a good book i didn't understand all the names and the elfs but it's really an amazing book
Ive got a book called A Dictionary of Tolkien by David Day and it really helped. I recommend getting it as it helps a lot with names.
It's easier to follow character namesin a story when they have a face, and what they look like. It's much easier to associates names with a face rather than from your imagination, because sometimes or often your brain creates different versions on what they look like or isn't completely sure how to imagine the character.
My brother explained to me about this Manga he'd been reading and he was giving me all of these names but I got confused. But when I saw their faces and read some of the Manga it was easier to remember
Listening to the audiobook of The Silmarillion over and again was a help to me. I enjoy it much more in that mode, as reading it to me (and I'm sorry I'm so late on this, I've been unable to enjoy these videos due to too many personal life issues) it can become quite an anesthetic, but this is due to my poor choices in times of reading. Before bed isn't the best time to read for the sake of absorbing the material.
Artistically speaking, the archaic writing "works" for lack of a better term. It does add to the majesty and the sense of antiquity of the story, and I don't have a problem with it, really. Due to the fact that it remained so incomplete, though, it is rather frustrating to not have the dialogue and experiences we'd love to have that exist in works like The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, but it is what it is, and the antiquity of the events that take place there make it wholly suitable for the stories to be told this way. When so much happens, though, it's easy to get overwhelmed, and filled with disappointment at the lack of details in something that we were so interested in. I won't give any spoilers, but it would have been good to know more about how Elrond felt having gone through what he did. Information on the politics and doings of Dwarves is a bit scanty. What were the deeds of Feanor that vexed his wife so much? It's good enough that we have abstracts, really, because so much time had to be covered, but we're at least talking about it decades after it was written, and it's an excellent bit of storytelling on its own, and enriches reading The Lord of the Rings especially, because you understand the significance of some of the dialogue of Gandalf in particular, and Aragorn. Even Gildor.
I first tried reading it when I was probably 12 or 13, and I stood no chance. After reading LOTR and the Hobbit at least a dozen times, I had enough to at least finish the Silmarillion the first time.
What really got me to understand it as well as I do now is when I stumbled across the audiobook. It was over then. Ive listened to the Silmarillion audiobook at least 50 times all the way through. I listen to it at work, at night, all the time.
Then I started listening to the rest of the mythology on audiobook and now, Im a Tolkien expert. I have all the audiobooks and books, I have the Children of Hurin read by Christopher Lee, I wish they would make a Fall of Gondolin audiobook.
The Silmarillion is written like a religious text. I think its supposed to be the Elvish Bible. If it had all the stories and books Tolkien finished or alluded to, all in one large text, it would be a comprehensive religious text.
A religion around the Silmarillion could easily be created, centered around Eru Iluvatar and men could imitate the Numenoreans at their height as a righteous people, before their fall.
I wouldn't say it's a "Bible" (ie religous text) by any means... maybe more similar to the Histories of Herodotus, if we're to make a comaprison.
The beginning of this book reads jus like the bible. I was describing this to a friend of mine. Like how it describes families and relations.
Yeah Kinda Does.
oh god lol. i tried reading the bible but it just doesn’t make sense to me. hope i can understand this book😂 all the old stories and battles and shit really interests me
@@mattyicicles1608 listen, it's an awesome read, that part is just the beginning. It tries to get you to understand different characters and how they relate later on in the story. Trust me, you won't regret reading that book
ironwork92000
thank u man!! i’m so excited. i never read any of the books but someone read me the Hobbit as a kid. and absolutely love all 3 LOTR movies. this should be fun
@@mattyicicles1608 man, not a problem. Once you read Silmarillion, you're gonna have such a better knowledge on the universe, you're gonna see how much smaller the ring trilogy actually is compared to the history of middle earth, lol. I promise you won't regret it
Someone once told me that reading the Silmarillion was like reading the Bible in Chinese. As much as I loved Middle-Earth, that saying intimidated me enough to stay away from the book for a good number of years until the temptation became too much one day. Although I didn't understand parts of it, and I certainly won't remember everything from it, I didn't want it to end. It didn't read like a story, no, but learning about the history, lore, creations, and the countless characters and the roles they played fascinated me to no end. All of a sudden everything that happened in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings held more meaning, and *so* much had happened before those stories even took place. This may sound sappy and ridiculous, but I shed tears when I finished The Silmarillion. It's easily the best fantasy book I've read.
Why Chinese? The Silmarillion truly is a hard read for most people but it is still written in English.
I love the Silmarillion. Maybe even more than LotR. It’s much more consistent than any other human mythology than I am aware of.
I really don't think it's hard to read at all, I first read it when I was 16 and it was one of the first few books I ever read.
When the book came out in the late 1970's, the Time Magazine review spoke of the book not having Tolkien's "sparkling prose", as is found in The Hobbit, for example. The book was published after his demise, & was compiled by his son Christopher.
Those are some cool wall adornments btw.
Thanks!
@@TolkienLorePodcast
You've welcome, mon ami.
I did some looking for a suitable benediction...from one Tolkien geek to another. May this suffice.
www.elvish.org/gwaith/elrond.htm
Adults: the Silmarillion is so hard to read
13yo me: BE HE FOE OR FRIEND, BE HE FOUL OR CLEAN...
I have read hundred of books but I've never been able to finish a Tolkien. I'm on chapter 11 of the Silmarillian audiobook and it is a lot! But so interesting. Thank you for the synopsis videos it really helps
I have started ot twice, both times stopped with the rising of the sun.
maybe try to read the hobbit first.
@@whatever4566 1 year later and I have read the entire series but thanks
@@saraj1002 I have also read the entire series
"Hardened their hearts". I line used many times in the Silmarilian, and also the King James bible.
i can’t wait to get into this. i’ve only been read to the Hobbit, but i’m excited to start and learn everything possible
Yes! While reading the Appendices and The Silmarillion, I’ve gotten a lot of biblical writing feelings from it so your comparisons really sound accurate!
It's like reading Le Mort D'artur
I'm currently about 120 pages into Silmarillion now, I think the hardest thing for me is the names and places. So many places are mentioned but without being given enough time to process it all (and the map included with the book isn't all that helpful either since Aman isn't showen anywhere
Thank you......you have described this work accurately. I've read it three times in a 15 yr time span and find the prose enchanting. Originally became interested through the LOTR films. The core messages are the same. I'm not religious. But the envy and covetousness of the silmarils and later the ring are the same. It's a complex work of great beauty....most people are too intellectually lazy to contemplate it. Or maybe too busy ....I have found it must be read slowly and savored.
It's not hard but beautiful. The reason I loved it is because of its archaic style. The reason I was enamored was because of how beautiful and deep the words were. I have always loved classical literature and found them to be orgasmic. This is where one can appreciate language to tell a story. It is indeed one of the best stories, but what makes it my favourite of all time is of how it uses words beautifully to describe an event, character, and philosophy. It just is beautiful.
I found K.W. Fonstad's atlas very helpful for the overview chapters. I mostly tripped over the tale of Turin and Nienor.
I am almost through my first reading of The Silmarillion, and I think it's a book that benefits from a second reading. The second time will be much easier, knowing what to expect.
I plan on reading books like " Beren and Lüthien", "The Children of Hürin" & "The fall of Gondolin" before re-, reading the Silmarillion. That ought to help.
It’s not hard to read as much as it is hard to remember the characters and places because there are SO MANY OF THEM
And they all have like three names
Yes it is I finished reading it recently but I stopped and looked up the names every time one popped so I knew who the hell they were talking about
Been listening to it on youtube while I work and it's much easier than reading. You sort of need to absord it via osmosis. If I zone out and miss a part, I just listen again the next day. It's been a nice calming background sound while still allowing me to get my work done.
I never had a problem.
As you mentioned, I approached it as I did Shakespeare.
I have no problems with the style and it’s not boring at all, but it’s a total information overload with all the names (especially as I listen to the audiobook and cannot just flip to the back of the book to look at family trees). This is why I like your podcast. You cross-reference and repeat information of what happened to a character before event X and how this influences the character’s behavior at event X.
I am reading the Silmarillion for the first time and it took me time to figure out how to understand the names and language ("mor-" meaning dark; "anor" meaning sun; "el[en]-" meaning star; -r or -i to make plurals, etc.) but constant exposure is certainly helping a lot. Also, the references in the Hobbit and LOTR finally make so much more sense!
It probably helps that I am a linguaphile and have a background in a few languages, so looking at Tolkien's use and patterns of Quenya and Sindarin are repetitive, and the pronunciation is quite regular and easy enough. Regular enough that the audiobook's pronunciation of "Ilúvatar" irks me (it aught to be "i-LOO-vah-tar" rather than "i-loo-VAT-tar")
This was Explained extremely well . It’s felt like reading the bible ! I didn’t find it was hard to get into ! I’m use to old English !
Agreed; when I first read it back in '77 as a teenager (I was already drenched in LotR), I viewed the Silmarillion as an ancient and sacred history. Its lofty grandiloquence is an essential characteristic of the medium through which such fundamental (in Tolkien's universe) material is conveyed.
I've read the Silmarillion three times. Tolkien left notes for the book but some parts were more complete than others. Some only existed as point form notes and were finished by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay. I think the parts which flow as narative such as Beren and Luthien, Turam Turumbar, and the Fall of Gondolin were more or less complete and written by J R R himself and the others were finished only from his notes.
I don’t think it’s particularly to read, although I didn’t make it through on my first attempt because I was expecting a more direct prequel to LotR and wasn’t ready for it.
Once I tried again and got through it, it quickly became my favorite Tolkien work.
I also recommend listening to the audiobook version as well, it’s almost as if much of it was written to be read aloud
Hobbit is the fairy tale people of Middle Earth tell their children. Lord of the Rings is a merge of an epos and a chronicle, written by the mystical creature called hobbit about the 'recent' history of the Middle Earth. Silmarillion is the mythos, the collection of writtings incluiding myths of creation, history and heroism, establishing the mythology of the world. Together with some more flashed out stories which Tolkien wrote to her wife or about them and/or on the front of a war.
Genre is a history encyclopedia and/or a comprehensive history (school) book. Which is really easy to read. İf you don't try memorizing names as if you re going to get a quiz afterwards, but try learning the history, by going back to look at said names of people and places. You don't study your history book by reading it one way one time and memorizing while you re reading. At least I can't.
in short, it's not a novel. But is a legitimate good book. Asocial s like me gets to enjoy skipping people s names, and go back to see who the (generally) guy is. it's easy. Just relax. There won't be a test afterwards. Even though it's a study book.
I read Silmarillion first time in my native language so I didn't have to deal with archaic English, which was something that eased up things. When someone asks how to approach Silmarillion, I tell them this: it's not really a novel. It's part history book, part philosophy book, so to speak, written by 2 narrators (that's what Tolkien wanted us to believe). To fully appreciate it, be prepared to read it twice or three times. First reading, skip Ainulindale. Read Valaquenta just to have a grasp who's who within Ainur and refer to it later as necessary. Read Quenta Silmarillion. Then take a break and go back to read Ainulindale and Valaquenta again. Probably you'll understand behavior and motivation of some key players much better...then proceed to read Quenta Silmarillion again and then Akallabeth should be a breeze esp if you've read LOTR recently.
When I explain it to people I tell them it's in an interesting read, BUT it's a hard read. I tell them its like reading the bible and and college history book rolled into one!
I just started to read The Silmarillion. And even if I struggle a bit with it at first It gets easier over time. It's a fantastic book
My hang-up with reading The Silmarillion (of course, I was barely in High School at the time), was that I had the wrong expectations. I had just read The Lord of the Rings and I had a lot of questions regarding things like: who is Gandalf and where did he come from? Where did the rings come from and how were they made? What about Frodo's parents and how did they die? Why do Bilbo and Frodo dislike the Sackville Bagginses so much? What are all of the ruins all around Middle Earth and what are their histories? etc., etc. I started reading, or trying to read, The Silmarillion, and it was reading like Genesis. I just thought, "What is this?" Where is the good stuff? So I skipped on a bit and I never saw a page that mentioned Gandalf, or hobbits, or anything like what I was expecting. And then I looked at the maps and saw lands that I did not recognize at all (what is this Beleriand??). It was not meeting my needs at the time, so I put it down and didn't come back to it until very recently. Now that I understand what it is, I can appreciate it on its own terms. But I would summarize by just saying that I had very wrong expectations, so that was why I couldn't get into it. (I do now! I love it! And I'm now reading Unfinished Tales.)
That probably is a very common issue. The Silmarillion isn’t even a novel, strictly speaking.
Very interesting topic. When reading the Portuguese version of the Silmarillion we don't get the sense of "lack of order" you mention, perhaps precisely because the word order in the Latin system doesn't make as much difference as it does in the (modern) English language.
It is much more difficult for us Portuguese speakers to read, for example, the first translation (from Spanish) of Don Quixote de La Mancha, with countless archaic terms and disused words, and a much more complex sentence construction than the one currently used in both (modern) Spanish and Portuguese.
I Must admit after seeing the P,Js adaptation of the FotR back in 2001, I'm like.. wtf have I just watched and is there more.... until that point, I didn't have a foggyest or any idea about Tolkien's world or writings..
Then My sister gave me a copy of the Hobbit and before I knew it I'd read all up to RotK and like.. that can't be it.....
Then After playing LotrO for many years (a good 5 or 6 lol) a friend online recommended me to read the silmarillion? Again I was clueless to this books existence, So after months of searching I couldn't at the time find a paper back/hard back copy in my town or city library..
So then around 2007-8 after searching online, I came across a Audiobook version and WoW it blew my mind, definitely took me a few times listening to actually grasp the storylines I won't lie, then eventually I purchasing a copy, and yes it's a hard read I found aswell, but because of the audio version I already had a pretty good idea of the names and story plot.. I think now I have read the Silmarillion probably 4-5 times since then and Still love it and it definitely holds a proud spot on my bookcase
For me, The Silmarillion is not so much hard to read but difficult to focus, absorb and remember all of the information. There is so much information that multiple readings are required.
I prefer to listened to the audiobook. Have done so twice in 2020 during lockdowns, listening again in Jan 2021 and there is so much to forget.
An animated version, true to the book would be a exciting.
I just think you have to approach it differently to other books, if you slow read it & take your time to take everything in it's not too much trouble. The first time I read it I spent as much time refering to the back of the book as I did reading the actual story but it's such a rewarding book if you stop to absorb everything he's written. To me it's a study & I wanted more... I do think you need to have a keen interest in the lore to enjoy it tho, not everyone who read The Hobbit & the LOTR's realy cares about that, only what's happening here & now.
I hate to call it a handicap, but as English isn't my first language, it can be a hindrance at times when it comes to reading and understanding epic texts, such as the Silmarillion, critically. On top of that, I didn't grow up in an environment where reading was encouraged; I developed an interest for it due to my love of screen adaptations of classic novels, like David Copperfield. I taught myself to become fluent in the English language, more or less, by immersing myself in reading more challenging texts, with Lord of the Rings being one of them. Following my conversion to Christianity at 17, I became familiar with the prose of the King James Bible, as I read it practically every Wednesday and Sunday, for Worship service and Thanksgiving. So, when I finally got my copy of the Silmarillion, feeling thrown off by the archaic words and prose style wasn't the actual issue for me; it was the condense history and genealogies that never seemed to cease that would distract my train of thought as I read and lose my focus on the important details. I've never been a fan of history, unless it was the historical accounts of Biblical figures, but history in general just wasn't interesting enough for me. Nevertheless, I did grow to love the Silmarillion - not necessarily for the history or lore of Middle Earth itself, but for introducing new themes to me that spoke to my Christian sensibilities.
I know my comment is like years late, but I've been binge-watching your Silmarillion playlist, and I'd like to thank you for creating this type of content. It's helpful to Tolkien readers in general, but it's especially helpful to people such as myself, whose English isn't their native language. Moreover, I appreciate your delivery; it's not condescending or arrogant. You remind me of a teacher, and I sincerely meant that as a compliment.
I've started out by listening to the audiobook of The Silmarillion. This was a mixed experience. It was good to hear the names/words pronounced, however, being a visual learner it made it harder to remember them. You don't read The Silmarillion, you study it, which for me has meant listening/reading it repeatedly and listening/watching explanations of it on the internet. I tried reading an ebook but I've managed to get a paperback of the book and I'm hoping that I will be able to read it through once I have studied it further.
The Silmarillion is the best book fiction ever written.
Going to give it a try! I'll be back once it's over and survived it
The Silmarillion is better than the Lord of the Rings, there's so many characters and concepts where you want to know more. For instance: what were the full thought processes of the Valar, what were their true characters?
Or Eru- Did he want to be worshipped? Does he intend for Arda to be completely destroyed after the many ages of man's dominance and then for the world to be resurrected?
The elves- when Arda ends will they join all the men who have died and form a new Arda or a new Earth? Our Earth? Or are they immortal as long as Arda exists and thus face a complete termination of their existence when Arda comes to an end?
Or Melian the Maia, how I wish Tolkien wrote more about her for she is a character who stays pure, true and wise but is marred by her physical existence and suffers repeated tragedies in the last years of her life in Middle Earth- why did she stay with Thingol when she saw his fate and could see his goodly character become consumed with greed for the simaril?
Or what was life like for Beren and Luthien after they are resurrected (and after Luthien becomes a mortal), did they fear death? Why did they die so quickly, was it because they were never supposed to return to mortal life? Did Luthien ever regret her choice?
Simarillion- what a book!
Being familiar with The works of William Shakespeare will also be helpful.
I'm listening to it on Audible. I do better hearing books than I do reading, my eyes are really bad and I get tired easily when reading. The Silmarillion had SO MUCH good stuff.
I first read The Silmarillion in 8th grade. I never found it a hard read, but I did note that it wasn't really a novel -- it reads more like a history book or mythology text. I can see how this could seem harder to those not use to it, or simply not what someone use to contemporary novels would expect.
Literally my only 2 issues: soooo many places/ soooo many (foreign sounding & hard to memorize) houses, tribes, etc
Great commentary
The Silmarilion audiobook by Dorian ellesar helped a lot
Great video, keep up the good work
Personally the Silmarillion no longer feels hard to read because of its style. The ever increasing tragedy and depressing events make it hard to continue smiling 😅
It’s a dry straight forward story of its own Genesis and history. I love it but I also read my entire encyclopedia over and over. There are so many names and sons of so and so and daughters of so and so that it’s hard to retain.
He’s alluding to the angels and the battle between satan and Michael
Nice video. Thanks.
Big deal word order is. - Yoda style
love your Channel
Is it? I never noticed it...
Just this:It ISN'T
(Once you get a hang on the names )
Did thou get that?
And that?
♥️Finwians
But... is it though? :) I remember not being able to stop reading, even the second time around.
You’re in the minority lol
Guess it was a bit of a cheat, having read the poetic and prose Eddas first. :D
@@klutttmuttsprutt6087 Classic! The best way is, if you want to read something hard, read something harder first!
I read the Lays of Beleriand before I read LotR in English. I barely understood anything at the start and only got somewhat by because I knew the general outline of the story from Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales (read in Czech). Not only was it as archaic as the more archaic passages in LotR/Silmarillion, it was a poetry in old alliterative, non-rhyming, Anglosaxon metre... but by the end my English comprehension level went twofold and LotR was a breeze, which it wouldn't have been before. :D
Interesting. I’ve always thought LotR was the hardest one to read. Many reasons. But Hobbit was easy. And I found Silmarillion easier than LotR as well. 🤷♀️
You have to revel in the names themselves. That's a huge part of the charm. Don't memorize them, instead appreciate them and say them.
How to read The Silmarillion? The same way you read any book. Open the covers, and start reading.
I have a hard time reading the Silmarillion because the words in the book are so hard the pronounce. Any tips on how pronounce them right?
There’s a pronunciation guide in the book, and I did a video on pronunciation: ua-cam.com/video/nJNita-4Ujk/v-deo.html
@@TolkienLorePodcast thank you kind sir :)
It isn’t as far as I’m concerned!
UR ALL NERDS
And so am I, I will join you my brothers.
One does not just make himself a kin based on similarities. You must earn your place among us “nerds”
Prove it normie
Who said so?A page of the Silmarillion = 20 to 60 in a normal narrative Its a compendium of Elvish lore,mixed up with human cosmological "guesses" (for the Tar Eldar surely would know the "truth regarding Arda.Hence the flat earth,world made round,sun and moon made from the last fruit and flower of the trees and such..All beautiful concepts but second hand.Some assume if you did not have the sun and moon being made from them the two trees,a vital part of the mythos,would have to go also.Why?Make their light a more transcendent one which lights Valinor etc alone.(check out myths transformed and the nature of middle earth.)Also after the Spring Of Arda is ruined make Arda literally under volcanic clouds of ash and dust,a age of darkness until just before the elves awaken when Manwe and Varda intercede.The fumes and clouds disperse and the stars shine out in time for the Elves to aqaken.
Is there any book that covers the second age of middle earth?
Not in a dedicated way. Unfinished Tales has a lot of 2nd Age material though, and the Silmarillion chapter “Akallabeth” gives a birds eye view of Numenor’s decline and fall.
@@TolkienLorePodcast thanks for the information! Have a great holiday!
Because it is a Literary Experiment, posing as a Religious/Historical Document, not really a coherent story. Christopher did his best. Only so much one can do and stay true to the original work.
It's not hard to read at all. Try reading Chaucer, or some of the Norse sagas, or perhaps direct translations of the surviving sections of Beowulf if you like being challenged by archaic language
basically, it's written like mythologies
The Sillmarillion is a textbook and that's why people have issues with it.
I find it is the opposite. The Silmarillion is gripping, it never stops. The Lord of the Rings is filled with lots of description that slows the story way down. I love both, but the Silmarillion is definitely better.
It’s hard to read because I’m bad with names
It took me months.
So... if Fingolfin was named “Tony”, it would be easier? 😂 I take your point. But 100 “normal” names would still get jumbled in your head.
Its not
An i the only one who had read the silmarillion with no trouble?
No, but more seem to have trouble than not.
I dont think it's really a hard "read" its just the info that is given to you in certain stories like "names, geographical places" can make a bit confusing to follow at times..if you truly want to understand whats happening you kinda have to "stop reading" and look at a map and reread the family lineage of elves to re-establish who and where stuff is..I find flipping to the Sundering of Elves to be a big help
It is not. It is interesting.
The Silmarillion is much easier on audiobook.
The English language did not develop in the traditional sense. It went around mugging the other languages and kinda cobbled itself together by accident.
Because it reads like the Bible
That's a very thick accent you have
It’s not hard to read. Blasphemy!!!
I love Tolkien’s work, but he’s a bad writer. His best written work is the Hobbit. I don’t love his work because of the prose (and certainly not his characterisations) but because of the concepts and layers of myth and history. In many ways TLOTR is a bad novel. No skill in exposition - just have some dude make a big speech. No interesting characters (who aren’t hobbits). And no skill in structuring timelines and concurrent events. But I love it still
Well that’s your opinion.
It isn't it is very very easy to read, once you started reading the history of middle earth.