I think Sleepwalker makes the perfect case for the use of the split grade. So, V15/16. This is to account for the fact that there are two fundamentally different ways up. Of course, a few other key qualifications are needed, but this is the main one. EDIT: With Will Bosi making such quick work of Sleepwalker using the original beta, maybe straight V15 is a more proper grade. At the same time, it is worth acknowledging that the problem may be particularly height/reach dependent. So, perhaps using the split grade of V15/16 is appropriate on this account. I'm basing this on the guidelines a Val Bavona guidebook author says he uses for split grades. He basically says in his UA-cam video on grading that he uses a split grade when community consensus fails to converge on one particular grade over the other.
So there was this climb at my gym graded V7. I’m totally a solid V4 and can project climb V5 and accomplish most after half a dozen attempts or so. Never done a V6 or a V7 ever at this point. Was watching people do this V7 front facing the wall and I told someone “this would be way easier if on the 4th, 5th, and 6th move, you turned around facing away from the wall and grabbed the other side” and he said, “that sounds crazy… why don’t you try it?” So I did and flashed the thing. I thought (dang, I’ve done some V4s harder than that!) does that mean I can ‘downgrade’ the climb and call it a V3 because my personal beta is easier even though I used all the same holds? People get so wrapped around grades. I don’t get it. I can’t do V3s with huge slopers to save my life, but give me a V5 slab with tiny edges and crimps and I’m your man. Difficulty is soooo so subjective. Either way, would be cool to have the strength and skill to do stuff in the V10+ range someday. Not there yet, but I’ll keep brainstorming ways to make climb’s easier for me at least.
Thank you for the clarification, I can definitely see how skipping the “intermediaries” (which are necessary holds for all regular sized humans) would free up some energy and make this feel easier.
Nalle beta is wild too. The guy matches the sloper with a right hand drag before gaining the slot. Super alien and I’ve yet to see anyone do the move that way
Remember that grades are subjective for different bodies. Remember that downgrading something does take out NOTHING from the person ascending it. He still did ascend the same rock.
There’s another climb in red rocks that says V2 if you’re tall and V6 if you’re short. I sent it pretty easily and my friend couldn’t. It’s V16 unless you’re 6’5”
generally its based on time taken compared to other problems, taking into account whether something is in a certain climbers style or not. then from there, the grade becomes more and more 'accurate' as a greater consensus of climbers is formed. for example if a basic crimp problem with 2 ascents has a v13 consensus, and a climber is deciding what grade to give their own new crimp problem, they might suggest v14 if it took them double the time the consensus v13 took. it definitely isnt a science, and I hate putting grades on stuff but basically by those criteria the more people give their opinion the more accurate the grading becomes.
@@aguyonyoutube4sure Harry Potter is a wizard who can cast a variety of spells. Yes, hes probably float his way up to the top and say hed climb it (if you read the books hes kind of a douche). It wouldn’t surprise me if he dabbed the whole way up on trees and other things too 🤣
@@SCOclimbing To say they 'tried BoD' is super misleading dude. Almost criminally so. They were in Finland for a comp and on a rest day before the comp they went out with Nalle to have a look at it and didn't even have a full session on it. Daniel just toyed around on the moves.
This is just the generation we live in with the kids these days. They are doing the same shit in the gyms and it’s so annoying downgrading everything trying to say there stronger than everyone else. I don’t see the point in downgrading this climb at all other than trying to boost their own self esteem trying to be better than everyone else
Usually they downgrade because when comparing it to other v16’s it’s easier or when comparing it to other v15’s it’s harder. Not really a self esteem thing.
wheel rock is frustrating because half the time i have to watch weak midget noah wheeler instead of strong sexy benn wheeler
strong sexy benn wheeler 😍🤤
Soft V2 in my gym though
community needed this, nice work Noah!
Ya all of us mortals were dying to know whether it would take us 3 lifetimes of training to send this or 4.
@@loftshot9169 The general commentary at the start of the vide is also valid for V1s
Watching Ryuichi Murai climb this at only 5'4" tall and maybe 5'7" span was amazing!
Not really, hes smaller but therefore much lighter which gives him a power advantage.
@@yannickfrogel3537 So it cannot be amazing then? 🙄
@@yannickfrogel3537 incredibly braindead take
@@yannickfrogel3537are you accoustic ?
@@yannickfrogel3537 dude u left ur brain at home when u wrote that comment
We desperately need more of these breakdowns for hard boulders! Great video!
I think Sleepwalker makes the perfect case for the use of the split grade. So, V15/16. This is to account for the fact that there are two fundamentally different ways up. Of course, a few other key qualifications are needed, but this is the main one. EDIT: With Will Bosi making such quick work of Sleepwalker using the original beta, maybe straight V15 is a more proper grade. At the same time, it is worth acknowledging that the problem may be particularly height/reach dependent. So, perhaps using the split grade of V15/16 is appropriate on this account. I'm basing this on the guidelines a Val Bavona guidebook author says he uses for split grades. He basically says in his UA-cam video on grading that he uses a split grade when community consensus fails to converge on one particular grade over the other.
So there was this climb at my gym graded V7. I’m totally a solid V4 and can project climb V5 and accomplish most after half a dozen attempts or so. Never done a V6 or a V7 ever at this point. Was watching people do this V7 front facing the wall and I told someone “this would be way easier if on the 4th, 5th, and 6th move, you turned around facing away from the wall and grabbed the other side” and he said, “that sounds crazy… why don’t you try it?” So I did and flashed the thing. I thought (dang, I’ve done some V4s harder than that!) does that mean I can ‘downgrade’ the climb and call it a V3 because my personal beta is easier even though I used all the same holds? People get so wrapped around grades. I don’t get it. I can’t do V3s with huge slopers to save my life, but give me a V5 slab with tiny edges and crimps and I’m your man. Difficulty is soooo so subjective. Either way, would be cool to have the strength and skill to do stuff in the V10+ range someday. Not there yet, but I’ll keep brainstorming ways to make climb’s easier for me at least.
Homie's fingers at 5:22 is probably the wildest thing I've seen climbing... Is that type of pinky common? Nice moves though man. So strong.
Thanks for the breakdown! I really enjoyed watching this 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you for the clarification, I can definitely see how skipping the “intermediaries” (which are necessary holds for all regular sized humans) would free up some energy and make this feel easier.
Great work on the send and communication, thanks man
love the rundown sick stuff dude
Nalle beta is wild too. The guy matches the sloper with a right hand drag before gaining the slot. Super alien and I’ve yet to see anyone do the move that way
Super fucked for sure. Ryuichi beta is rightfully the standard for shorter beta now.
Remember that grades are subjective for different bodies. Remember that downgrading something does take out NOTHING from the person ascending it. He still did ascend the same rock.
In this case it’s upgrading not downgrading I believe or did he not fa?
Wow looking good on the sit! Keep it up and good luck! 💪💪💪
Very good explain the difrents betas and the difrent dificulty 🔥
Does anyone have context for how ridiculous Nalle's beta (matching into the sloper then stabbing into the slot) is?
soft 17 lets go
There’s another climb in red rocks that says V2 if you’re tall and V6 if you’re short. I sent it pretty easily and my friend couldn’t. It’s V16 unless you’re 6’5”
Is anyone trying to link the start of “Squoze” into the sleepwalker line?
“Revenge of the Sleepwalker”?
This is gonna go viral
No way you sneak drop rotsw send 😭👀
Wow the name of your channel is genius
Awesome vid ❤❤
guys on a rampage through America 🔥
Spicy 🔥
Nice shoe choice! 😉
Best climbing shoe on all terrain! Need this thing to become a main release.
Damn this looks smooth
Anything above V12 is crazy and I don't even get how people differentiate between a 14,15 or 16... Would love an explanation btw.
generally its based on time taken compared to other problems, taking into account whether something is in a certain climbers style or not. then from there, the grade becomes more and more 'accurate' as a greater consensus of climbers is formed. for example if a basic crimp problem with 2 ascents has a v13 consensus, and a climber is deciding what grade to give their own new crimp problem, they might suggest v14 if it took them double the time the consensus v13 took. it definitely isnt a science, and I hate putting grades on stuff but basically by those criteria the more people give their opinion the more accurate the grading becomes.
iirc Drew Ruana said that he couldn't really tell between 14, 15, or 16. I think a lot of it just ends up being how long it took.
i grade the breathing behind the camera a solid v15
Great video! What about Nalle's beta? Do you guys have any Idea on how difficult it is?
Good question. Guessing it’s harder than every other beta, given that every climber on the shorter side decides on using Ryuichi’s beta over nalles.
In my opinion drama around grades is completely unimportant. It just doesn’t matter like at all.
go get that sit start 🍽️
All the real ones know that the Sleepwalker sloper is a jug for diabase climbers
V11 out east
Major slay
Wait nvm. Blue balls
So how do you measure yourself against other climbers?
By height.
A tape measure
🔥 🔥 🔥
Woah! Harry Potter rock climbs!? I figured hed just magically cheat the thing like some bastard. Probably dabs too 🙄
???
@@aguyonyoutube4sure bro looks like harry potter
@@Jagknorr what is the last part though
Remember when rock climbing to use the leviosa spell.
-Harry Potter
@@aguyonyoutube4sure Harry Potter is a wizard who can cast a variety of spells. Yes, hes probably float his way up to the top and say hed climb it (if you read the books hes kind of a douche). It wouldn’t surprise me if he dabbed the whole way up on trees and other things too 🤣
Is your skin ever not completely wrecked? 😂
It totally is
noah beard 🥵
😮💨
It still seems like, even with the tall beta, ROTSW has to be a 17 if not the hardest boulder currently standing in the world
Both Jimmy and Daniel tried BoD and never did it. I seriously doubt ROTS is the hardest boulder.
@@SCOclimbing Pretty sure Daniel tried BoD for one session and Jimmy just kinda felt out positions in approach shoes but still
@@elisills3395 who of the top tier climbers besides Daniel tried ROTS tho?
@@SCOclimbing To say they 'tried BoD' is super misleading dude. Almost criminally so. They were in Finland for a comp and on a rest day before the comp they went out with Nalle to have a look at it and didn't even have a full session on it. Daniel just toyed around on the moves.
you just goin around hating on mellow? @@SCOclimbing
V14
v10 tops
Off course it's overgraded. The American hyperbole never disappoints.
The European mind can’t even comprehend this boulder
time to come and chip it into a V16, so the debate can finally end.
This is just the generation we live in with the kids these days. They are doing the same shit in the gyms and it’s so annoying downgrading everything trying to say there stronger than everyone else. I don’t see the point in downgrading this climb at all other than trying to boost their own self esteem trying to be better than everyone else
Usually they downgrade because when comparing it to other v16’s it’s easier or when comparing it to other v15’s it’s harder. Not really a self esteem thing.
who cares
A ton of ppl😭
@@marcowright1060 gumbies*
@@canyonvideosas a V11 gumby I can attest that I do, in fact care.
As a v14 gumby i can attest that i do, in fact care
People who don’t get the subjectivity of grading