Wheel of Time: Season 2 Episode 2 'Strangers & Friends' with Philip Chase

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  • Опубліковано 28 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 103

  • @ACriticalDragon
    @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +15

    I just noticed how many ads UA-cam put in this so have tried to delete the vast majority of them. Sorry about that.

  • @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
    @PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Рік тому +19

    Thank you for another fun discussion, A.P.! I'm pretty sure you could teach even the Aes Sedai a thing or two about fireballs! 😁

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +4

      White Tower, Black Tower... everyone needs fireballs.

  • @esmayrosalyne
    @esmayrosalyne Рік тому +3

    I also commented this on Philip's first discussion video, but I am so happy and grateful that you two are discussing these episodes again! I am probably already enjoying this show more than most other readers seem to be, but there are still things that you two point out which only make me appreciate the show even more!
    Nynaeve and Liandrin are currently my favourite characters/performances in the show. And I am also very pleased with how well the new actor for Mat is taking over the role! Thanks for the fun and insightful analysis :)

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      You are very welcome. I am glad that we are adding to your enjoyment and not detracting from it.

  • @Eriths-Honey-Cakes
    @Eriths-Honey-Cakes Рік тому +1

    Great discussion. Thx for the thoughtful breakdown of themes, plot etc. I loved the Seanchan costuming and agree that Allwen is brilliant as the Voice. Visually I instantly understood that these people were wealthy, militaristic, and imperial. Love that they are rhotic while Westland people aren’t. The soldiers have great accents that are so American. I hope they use the accent like they do in the books, where Seanchan “undercover” can be exposed (to the viewer) as soon as they speak.❤

  • @Stan_S_Stanman
    @Stan_S_Stanman Рік тому +5

    I've enjoyed these analyses immensely. I echo what you've said about adaptations and how they should be judged by what they do as a standalone product, rather than how faithful they are to the source material.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +4

      Given their constraints, I am genuinely surprised at how much of the books is making it onto the screen.

  • @thatsci-firogue
    @thatsci-firogue Рік тому +7

    The Wheel of Time turned and ages come to pass, except for one constant... Nemesis!

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +5

      He is a constant presence driving me mad... wait... would that make me Rand?

  • @RoxanaMagdaD
    @RoxanaMagdaD Рік тому

    Thank you for the great conversation, we just finished watching this video and enjoyed it. You two make a fantastic duo and it's always a pleasure to watch your discussions :)
    This season already looks a lot better than the first one, and I'm pleasantly surprised :)
    The Alan Mandragon thing was hilarious, A.P.! 🤣🤣
    And now we're going to Philip's channel to watch the video for episode 3.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      Beware the Nemesis' channel. It is a dark and sinister place. 🤣🤣

    • @RoxanaMagdaD
      @RoxanaMagdaD Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon how can it be a dark and sinister place when you visit it so often? :)

  • @danhenley9495
    @danhenley9495 Рік тому +1

    There was no explanation about the several characters stabbed by the dagger. Im good with that

  • @nickdeboer4182
    @nickdeboer4182 Рік тому +1

    That Selene to Rand line was fantastic. Great for the situation as well as potential future implications. Thanks for covering these!

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      I thought it was a brilliant scene that worked well in the moment for the scene and relationship, but had a brilliant double meaning for book readers

  • @janineschmitz6760
    @janineschmitz6760 Рік тому +2

    I so enjoy you two taking the time to do this. Thank you.
    I couldn't agree more with AP on the majority of aspects.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      That is surprising. I don't even always agree with the majority of my points. I am fickle that way. 🤣🤣

    • @janineschmitz6760
      @janineschmitz6760 Рік тому +1

      ​@@ACriticalDragon To be fair, I didn't say 'always' ;)
      To be a little more precise then, I enjoy you talking about the difference of likability and appreciation. I do enjoy the show a lot because to me it's like a giant puzzle changing but at the same time incorporating so many aspects of the novels in slightly different ways. This is, of course, due to restrictions and regulations imposed by Amazon and so on and on.
      However, I feel like most of the discussions about WoT takes place on a rather subjective level. Many people appear to expect every single detail to be according to the novels without realising that a TV show and a novel series are very different mediums. I enjoy you pointing that out again and again.
      To me, people narrowing down on their own expectations often blinds them to well done aspects of the show - for example the fighting scene with the Sheanchan and the Shienarans. I noted the exact same thing about the Shienarans displaying so much compentence and skill during the scene, and how their style differs from the Sheanchan. This is, in itself, a rather small but neat aspect of showcasing the world. The same holds true for the exploration of the bond between Aes Sedai and Warders displayed by Moiraine, Alana and Liandrin.
      So, this is my very long-winded way of saying how much I enjoy you taking a more nuanced and diffferentiated approach to the series than many other commenters I've encountered.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      @janineschmitz6760 thank you very much.
      Everyone has their own preference and approach, and the things they like/dislike , so I am very happy that you are enjoying this.

  • @taminfoxer
    @taminfoxer Рік тому +2

    I have always read it as alan man dragon thank you so much for saying it out loud.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      Quick, tell Philip. I love it when someone proves me right. 😂😂😂😂

  • @danalou_who7765
    @danalou_who7765 Рік тому +3

    I love that the show is making the "evil" characters complex, and I suspect that with Liandrin, her son might have a great deal to do with why she hates men and even perhaps what causes her to go over to the Dark One. In S1 she tells Nynaeve that men are not always kind to girls with power. Her son very well could be the result of violence against Liandrin.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +4

      Kate Fleetwood's portrayal of Liandrin has been great, and a real stand out for the show. She and the writers have created a really compelling and nuanced character. I am really enjoying the performance.

  • @thefantasythinker
    @thefantasythinker Рік тому

    I love that you pointed out the wardens moving in tandem with their Aes Sedai and other little details I probably missed the first viewing. Makes me want to go back and watch it again. Really enjoying this season so far.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      I was really impressed with how the actors did that. It is such a small detail and yet it sold the entire bond, the concept that they know and feel where each other are at all times. I love how tiny things like that add up to create a compelling and believable world.

  • @aldan7812
    @aldan7812 Рік тому +4

    Oh I might despise a lot about whats been done with the characterisations in the show - but Elayne is 100% not one of these things, I'm with you Mr Dragon, she nailed it and they nailed her - she immediately felt like Elayne to me, my favourite thing apart from Donals performance (when they let him be Mat). Great discussion lads. Actually the guy playing Masema is a super addition for the show, he clearly has proper combat training and it shows.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      As with any adaptation there are going to be things we like or dislike. But I thought it was a great portrayal of Elayne.

  • @TheJordanK
    @TheJordanK Рік тому +2

    I know some angries on Reddit and Twitter that need to watch your discussions 😂

  • @drawyrral
    @drawyrral Рік тому +3

    I agree with the Doctor about Loial's "look", but I understand the need. For me, the best giants in fantasy are in Donaldson's Covenant series.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      Giants are difficult to convey in live action, so I am willing to give a fair amount of leeway to physical effects that I wouldn't necessarily extend to cgi.
      Personally I am willing to accept less convincing physical effects if it leads to greater presence in the story, as cgi is so expensive they tend to avoid having to use it where possible.

    • @drawyrral
      @drawyrral Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon I must say though, this version of Loial does look like he is afraid of his mother.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      I would be afraid of her too.

    • @drawyrral
      @drawyrral Рік тому

      I always picture Margaret Rutherford when I'm reading about her.@@ACriticalDragon

  • @danalou_who7765
    @danalou_who7765 Рік тому +1

    Book fans definitely have made many jokes about "Man-dragon" in regards to Lan, but in the book Origins of the Wheel of Time by Dr. Michael Livingston Lan's cousin Isam Mandragoran, one half of Slayer, is read as "man-dragon" because he opposes the Dragon Reborn. I had never considered this interpretation of Mandragoran in light of Isam before reading that entry.

  • @alexanderericson8628
    @alexanderericson8628 Рік тому +2

    I think it is safe to say that Season 1 was completely rewritten the moment Mat left . And I do think that is why it is slightly weaker at the end. It is already clear that Finn is going to nail it as Mat this season so that damage is already repaired.

    • @janaanklassen87
      @janaanklassen87 Рік тому

      By having mat steal some more in episode 3 yes nailed map whom quote "I am not a thief"

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      I certainly hope that is the case, and what I have seen thus far the actor has made Mat's character his own. So I am really interested in seeing how it plays out.

  • @darkportents9835
    @darkportents9835 Рік тому

    I wish when she told the story of how they met she included dumping the pond on him after he threw her in the pond.

  • @darkportents9835
    @darkportents9835 Рік тому

    The images that Perrin sees are actually in the book, they're just completely internal like a telepathic thing instead of how they're showing them as an external projection here. they're the sendings from the wolves, rather than a construction from Perrins scent or other heightened senses.

    • @darkportents9835
      @darkportents9835 Рік тому

      (and I think choosing to have them like this instead of like something that flashes through his head like in the books is a good thing)

  • @carlalbert6518
    @carlalbert6518 Рік тому +1

    Good chat! WoT s2 ep 1 was solid imo, but eps 2 and 3 were excellent.
    I hadn't even considered Min might have lied about her capture. Interesting theory. Clearly there's more going on with her. As for the Fade on the door, I figure it's like the book, and Padan Fain did it.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      I am genuinely enjoying watching how they are adapting the events and characters. I think the shift in style of narrative perspective is really interesting.

  • @slidenaway
    @slidenaway Рік тому

    Another great discussion! I’m still closer to Philip in my enjoyment overall, and like both of you I’m feeling is a really nice level up from season 1. And I think episodes 3 and 4 are even another level up from these first 2!
    I think my biggest issue is around both Moiraine/Lan and the general warder stuff (although I think that’s more episodes 3 and 4). Not just that it departs from the books, but that it doesn’t feel true to their characters, and I feel like they’re both being a little ridiculous and less mature than I’d expect from them - especially Moiraine.
    BUT I also don’t know where they’re going with it all. I don’t know what stuff from the books they’re adjusting or pulling forward from later books. It’s like we always say about Malazan - how can you react to a few chapters or even a whole book??! You don’t know the end game! You don’t have full context!! Well, I guess I’m trying to reserve some judgment with that in mind 😊

  • @BooksWithBenghisKahn
    @BooksWithBenghisKahn Рік тому

    I must be an old fuddy duddy too since I despised Elayne’s line “jealousy is not the best look on you”-discounting the valley girl tone of it, Elayne has only known Egwene for a few days at this point? Just such a strange bit of writing for her.
    Thank you once again for helping me see all of the nuances and attention to detail that paint the picture of very well thought out long-term storytelling. One thing I’m missing right now is a sense of the larger geography and where everyone is in relation to each other, though that’s a minor quibble. The character work throughout the episode was top notch with compelling acting!

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      I wouldn't go as far as 'despised' but the line stood out to me. I didn't mind the sentiment to me, 'truth from strangers' is a recognizable concept, and Elayne is very perceptive. So the impetus and rationale for the line seemed in character ... it was just the phrasing.
      But I am definitely not the demographic they are writing for. 🤣🤣

  • @sionat29
    @sionat29 Рік тому

    Great discussion. I feel that they want us to think that the Fade nailed up was the work of the Seanchan, but will eventually reveal a Fain connection.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      That would be my interpretation. I think the deliberate proximity of the scenes to the Seanchan is meant to suggest that, but ultimately it will turn out to be misdirection and it will return to Fain.

  • @drawyrral
    @drawyrral Рік тому +1

    The evil galactic warlord, Larry!!!

  • @darkportents9835
    @darkportents9835 Рік тому

    Grays are the diplomacy Ajah. Blues are "great causes"

  • @csarmii
    @csarmii Рік тому +1

    Spoilers. We finally learn at 25:40 who wins: The Dragon or the Nemesis.

  • @KakashiHatake-ou7mp
    @KakashiHatake-ou7mp Рік тому +3

    This entire video was an excuse to make yourself Tom Cruise on the Thumbnail wasn't it? 😂

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +3

      I reused an old image that someone else had done. I didn't have any WoT specific images given my inability to use Photoshop. 🤣🤣🤣

    • @Paul_van_Doleweerd
      @Paul_van_Doleweerd Рік тому

      ​@@ACriticalDragonAnd you are too tall to be TC anyway...

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      @Paul_van_Doleweerd hey, TC played Reacher... and Reacher is taller than me. 🤣🤣🤣

    • @Paul_van_Doleweerd
      @Paul_van_Doleweerd Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon TC playing Reacher was always a bit of a stretch...

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      @@Paul_van_Doleweerd maybe he should have stretched more... at least a foot more.

  • @laylaazmigoushey5812
    @laylaazmigoushey5812 Рік тому

    I like your suspicions about Min, A.P.! I'm going to have to watch episode 2 again after watching this analysis. I've been a little salty about Rand and Selene's storyline but I see it from a new perspective now. Selene does not seem to be as mysterious as the books though, but I'll have to put away my book expectations I guess!

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      When we have such clear images in our head of how a thing is, it is often really difficult to see a different way of exploring it. I think the show did a good job of translating many of the key characteristics of the character and interaction (beauty, seduction, possessiveness, obsession, manipulation) into a new situation. She even makes Rand see her as broken and needing him (just as she did in the book, albeit in a very different way), so it is a very similar manipulation.
      But I completely understand the reaction of when something is not how we imagined it or pictured it that we are at the very least irked, and can have very negative reactions.
      I put away a lot of my book expectations when they revealed it was going to be 8 seasons of 8 episodes, and I closed the lid on them when they put 'based on' in the title sequence.
      Then again, my expectations for adaptation are usually more structural and abstract than in the fine details.

    • @laylaazmigoushey5812
      @laylaazmigoushey5812 Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon yes I keep thinking I have put away my expectations but then something jumps out at me🙂. Still, the acting is impeccable.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      But that is both the joy and the frustration of adaptation 🤣🤣🤣

    • @laylaazmigoushey5812
      @laylaazmigoushey5812 Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon indeed. 🙂

  • @drawyrral
    @drawyrral Рік тому +1

    Will you be alternating channels after each episode?

  • @robinirie98
    @robinirie98 Рік тому

    My test of a good adaptation is one where you can change the names of people places and things and I still recognise the story. WoT source material could have produced something that people talk about at the water cooler. But nothing I say is important because in the end, the market is the objective judge of what's good.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +3

      Personally I don't think the market decides what is good, it does however decide what is popular. There are plenty of examples of films and tv shows that failed upon release and yet picked up a cult following or longevity, but there are also examples of great stories in multiple media that just never caught on or captured the wider public's imagination.

    • @robinirie98
      @robinirie98 Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon I take your point. But without the market, what's good is reduced to "what I like". Popularity is evidence that people think it's good. Time will tell if this interpretation of RJ's work has enough appeal to people who turn up for fantasy.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      @robinirie98 the Big Mac is usually the best selling burger in the world, it doesn't mean it is good. Availability, price point, brand recognition, advertising, so many other factors... the reduction of evaluation of worth to volume is one of the most depressing trends that I have noticed in recent years.

    • @robinirie98
      @robinirie98 Рік тому

      @@ACriticalDragon And that is the crux of the disagreement. The big Mac is packed with good protein, fats and carbs - good food as long as you don't overindulge, and most people don't. Broken don't to nutritional value it's no different from a roast dinner and it's more affordable and tastes better. Some of us come to fantasy for that - magic and wonder and heroism. I've never heard anyone at the water cooler discussing the intricacies of storytelling. It tends to be "did you see what they did to Ned Stark?"
      But I get that many people prefer roast dinner but restaurants have a high failure rate

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      @@robinirie98 we hang out at different watercoolers.

  • @frmaha
    @frmaha Рік тому

    I read the books quite awhile ago but while
    watching the show I was sure Errol was an early introduction to corlan dashiva (I had forgotten his name and was like…Errol sounds right). I don’t remember the story enough other than the main points about him being a bit old and the key reveals so it might make no sense at all but I’m actually kinda bummed he’s a made up character. I was like yay they’re bringing in characters from the later books and making good narrative choices with them!

  • @danalou_who7765
    @danalou_who7765 Рік тому +2

    I disagree that the phrase "jealousy is not a good look" is anachronistic. There is nothing in that which is technologically inconsistent with the 3rd Age of WoT. There would be many turns of phrase which are hold overs from both the Age of Legends and the First Age, our Age. The 3rd Age is not our preindustrial time period, so the language is not limited to our premodern languages.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +2

      I take your point, but technology nor the vast history of the world was my issue. It just 'felt' out of place to me because it felt both modern and American in phrasing, not European and not the typical attempt at semi-formal construction as has been the default register for most of the dialogue, so it stood out to me. But as I hope I said at the time, it is entirely personal preference.
      All language and pronunciation in WoT is communicating with a modern audience so we aren't 'hearing' what they actually say but a rendering of the language in modern English.

  • @Paul_van_Doleweerd
    @Paul_van_Doleweerd Рік тому +2

    There's no debate, you two are as brown as they come, quite often it goes right up to your eyes...
    😂😂😂

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +2

      Given the good Doctor's remarks about the arches I think he may be more full of it than me

  • @slidenaway
    @slidenaway Рік тому +1

    omg ALAN THE MAN-DRAGON!!!! AP you are the devil

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +2

      I have toh.
      🤣🤣🤣

    • @slidenaway
      @slidenaway Рік тому +1

      @@ACriticalDragonyes. You are now my gai’shain. Aka butler. You will gain much ji.

  • @csarmii
    @csarmii Рік тому

    Not that i disagree with the discussion, but Perrin smells/perceives the present in the books and RJ brings this into the direction of emotions. They expanded on it in a very logical way (canines read the past from smells) and went in another direction cause it isn't on page.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      Thanks. I probably skipped about four steps of my thought process on that point.
      I liked the logic of his ability in the show as it leaned into the wolf brother enhanced senses in a logical way for viewers. It also neatly sidestepped the Deanna Troi problem. And it was then communicated and shown in a neat contrast to Min.

    • @csarmii
      @csarmii Рік тому

      Yes, they are consolidating events and abilities in very clever ways. We'll see a great example of that next episode.

    • @csarmii
      @csarmii Рік тому

      ​@@ACriticalDragonwhat is the Deanna Troj problem? Just Google it?

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому +1

      The meme of her pointing out really obvious 'feelings'. There were a number of jokes in the Fandom about how the empath ability was badly used.

    • @csarmii
      @csarmii Рік тому

      ​@@ACriticalDragonwell, that is a different story but yes. Perrin smells what people feel but doesn't understand that what people feel and what people actually think (let alone act on) are different things and it leads to relationship drama with his significant other (and a lot of readers who can't grasp that nuance hating that person) cause he uses that instead of, you know, talking. Which is a great parallel to the kind of disconnect Moiraine and Lan ard going thru here. They are used to sensing what the other feels so they talk less.

  • @aleksandarivanov5860
    @aleksandarivanov5860 Рік тому

    The phrase cynical cash grab comes to mind.

    • @ACriticalDragon
      @ACriticalDragon  Рік тому

      I think that is a fair characterisation of most studios that refuse to pay writers and creatives fairly.