Randomly stumbled onto your video when searching for tube amps. I was born and raised in the US and now working in China in the automobile industry. I can tell you from my experience here, Chinese manufacturing is definitely on a new level and it's gonna get even better. That scares a lot of hardcore and traditional purists that anything made in China or any developing country is "crap" compared to American or European standard. Just like 50-60 years ago, "Made in Japan" was junk and in reality, it was because they were making with the intention of being "junk" in the first place. Later in the 60s and 70s, Japan decided to stop making junk and look at their quality today. China is the same and we're gonna see this trend with other countries in the near future such as Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia and even India. What these hardcore and traditional purists should be thinking about is how to market to the Chinese because when you got a population of 1.3 billion people and with a rising middle class that has a lot of money to burn, a hell of a lot of them are gonna wanna buy "Made in USA" products because they see anything made outside China as top of the top. Regardless, I totally enjoyed your video. Have a nice day and keep it cool!
You say that for a Chinese- made amp it's phenomenal. I have the A-55t Mark III version. It's phenomenal compared to many, many amps, and not just Chinese. It's designed in Germany for those who care about that. It really is so good that after listening you have to wonder how much more do I need?
Thanks for this. Really balanced review and some sound diagnostics to back it up. If only all reviews were like this. This is a little more than the Yaqin's in terms of price however you have clearly demo'd the value point here and that's the point right.?.. 👍
Quite a substantial beast isn't it - a small army of tubes! One question I have is about your distortion measuring procedure - you seem to always use linear mode rather than logarithmic on the spectrum analyzer, which is unusual, and I don't think I've seen you do a two-tone intermodulation measurement. I have a suspicion that intermodulation is what humans actually hear first when distortion is audible, since most real-world notes already come with significant harmonics and adding a tiny bit extra seems a minor thing compared to creation of multiple, non-harmonically related tones that were never present in the original signal (which is what intermodulation does).
Have the EL-34 version. It's a 70lbs, very well-built and great sounding Integrated Amplifier. I believe it's the same as Prima Luna (Spark China). Experimented with Gold Lions, Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, Mullards, but found the original Cayin's EL-34 Chinese power tubes to be the best match for my system. I liked the Tung Sols as well, didn't like the Electro Harmonixs; the Mullards have great bass but sounded too dull. As for the pre-Amp section, I installed Gold Lions there. Get yourself one, you won't be disappointed.
I am a babe in the woods here ,Why are the Gold Lions best for the Pre Amp? I do have a PrimaLuna Evo300, just curious about what good Pre Amp tubes do for sound. I know it’s a general question, but I am learning.
@@beagle7622 Hi Beagle76. Some tubes lean towards a warmer-duller sound, other are a little more on the brighter-detailed side. Gold Lions are on the detailed-lean side, while Mullards provide more bass but missing some detail. So, it depends on your system (speakers, source, amplifier and cables) and your subjective idea of good sound. In my system, Tung-Sols and Svetlanas are also a very good choice for the pre-amp section.
Just wanted to tell you I love your videos, I’m from Detroit and wondering if you caught the word play with the bands name. Anyway I’m new to the world of tube amps. The only one I own is one of Dennis Had’s fire bottle amps and I think it’s top notch. Thanks for making such interesting content. I have a basic understanding of 12v electric from my career as a mechanic but your videos go so much more in depth than what I typically deal with and I find it just fascinating. Thanks again keep making great content.
From your tests, it looks to me that the power supply filtering is inadequate. The basic deign of that amp should not have that much distortion at the low frequencies. A simple up-sizing of the filter caps for the plate voltage of the power output tubes should do the trick.
I just bought a chinese made amp. It is a Audioromy model 808a. I think it is a class A/B push-pull amp, because it's power is rated at 55 watts per channel into 8 ohms with less than 1% distortion(probably at 1 khz, though not specified). It has one 12ax7, two 12at7, two 6n8p, and four KT88-98's. The tubes are all cheap chinese. A guy on an a facebook group I'm also on said he has one just like mine and he thinks it sounds great, BUT he got his from another person who swapped out the cheap chinese KT-88-98's for Tung Sol 6550's, so he didn't get to hear it with the original tubes. I didn't expect any magical imaging or soundstage or any of that snake oil, but wanted undistorted sound. I figured if distortion was even 1% I wouldn't detect it with my ears, because I often dyno car amps with my AMM-1 handheld dyno and DD-1 Distortion meter and can't seem to hear 1% on them. I am going to get some Electro-Harmonix tubes soon.
If you adjust to the same miliamps at a certain voltage that does not mean that tube curves are identical. Especially made in China. Just yet more Chinese shiny ... thing. That ampermeter cost you about extra $1000.
You’re mild mannered voice belies your musical taste.. =) It would be cool if you demoed some tracks from Fun House (The Stooges..) I’ve listened to a small Cayin PP 6V6 integrated over a decade ago. And it sounded smooth and open. Lower powered but also less complicated. I hope some day you can bench test one of those kit amps from Bob Latino. Their version of the ST70 sounds really good (with a proper selection of passive parts to perform their best..)
Oh Help, I'm in the market for a Tube Amplifier and each time I look and ponder...my desire and cost go up and up! This Cayin looks stunning. Many years ago I had the Quad 22 and 202 set-up and it was fantastic after I did some mod's on it but retained the KT 66's and the two power amps were rated at only 15 watts RMS each. This is a terrific review and I'm tempted but do I really want 100 watts? Can you please explain why my 15 watt Quad's sounded more like a 50-watt Transistor amp?
Very good amp, i wouldnt know how to make it better and i know a lot about electronics , guess one can rage on Transformer Saturation and quality , GAP or GAPless , this kind of cap that kind of cap , but all things considered , its a great amp , you can even BIAS your Tubes , a lot of them dont have that . You even get biasing Voltmeter , thats good , that is not Chinese stuff , doesnt have those characteristics ,its richer in features then a lot of amps ,so maybe it comes from china , but its no Chinese design
I have had issues with component quality. I know there are some nice units made in China though. Tubes usually are better from Europe, Russia, or NOS. Just my opinion. I may look into Cayin tube amps more.
Tubes are better from Europe , i dont know why , but they are hand made , by some ladies around , thats what i know , the good ones you are mentioning , i dont know who makes new tubes good . I guess that all went to shit these days
Wow, this is a really a drill down on the performance to the element level a true audio engineering bench test. This the high-end stuff serious audio material from China alright with a serious price tag running from 2K USD to 3.5K USD. Tube replacements could be costly too easily 500 USD
chineseium that works ;-) who would have thought. 3500 bucks is a bit stiff if one of the posters here is correct. really nice looking assemblage of components though.thanks for the peek.
Once you show the frequency response is very flat what is the point of saying it has good base response? Wasn't that already determined with that measurement?
Thanks for the review Mark, but I feel oddly disappointed by this device. My whole life I've wanted to build an amp like this. I have no desire whatsoever to buy one at any price.
You already said that the capacitors are not brand name and then we don’t Know so soon it will break. The second thing are the transformers are warm/hot, I think when I use several hours it will turn hot, so for safety purpose I won’t buy this stuff.
you just need a multimeter and a mini screwdriver to bias my tube amp. would never pay someone to bias something that can be done yourself in less than 5 minutes.
Actually you can bias it if you know what you are doing , if not voltmeter is not going to help . And a lot of amps dont have Bias circuitry so that has to be done by pros
My gut feeling is Chinese products are good outside but bad inside because they are Not so Generous To use good parts or devices inside in order to save a few pennies. That is why they are not to make high end products.
Still would not buy any high end product from china. Manufacturers support is non existent. Good luck trying to get proprietary parts. I demo one of their dacs. The instructions were printed on newspaper.
They have s distributor in Scotland too. Their amps are beautiful, well designed and manufactured and their 24 watt pc 845 tube powered beauty has all 5 star owner reviews on the dealers website. It costs £5500 in the UK incl VAT @ 20%
Fancy that, the Chinese make brilliant quality products! I think the Americans in particular need to seriously rethink all manner of attitudes concerning the Chinese. Cayin make Prima Luna by the way.
made in China? No thanks! 真空管プッシュプルアンプのメリット・デメリット メリット； 大出力が可能、NFB併用により低歪高SNワイドレンジ及び高駆動性能を実現 デメリット； ビーム多極管を出力管に採用する際はNFB併用しないと駆動性能が得れない 位相反転回路が位相特性に影響を与えてしまう場合がある 出力管の電流バランスに気を使わなければならない 他 パラPPでは出力管４本のバランスを維持するのがとても難しい マニア以外は手を出さない方がよい
If the design is that old I guess the patent has expired too, so I guess the Chinese or anyone else can copy it to their hearts content. My point to point wired Audioromy Model 808A has nine tube sockets, all of them mounted on sturdy thick gauge metal squares bolted at all four corners to the heavy gauge chassis. My Audioromy Model 828A single ended amp has some point to point, but the four sockets for the 6H3D tubes are mounted directly to a P.C.B. They can flex too much when installing tubes and be permanently damaged.
You could always build your own. It just takes time and sourcing the components. Unless you also want to wind your own transformers, that is usually the hardest item to source.
Your bigotry towards the Chinese is duly noted. Point-to-point wiring lasts a lot longer than brittle circuit boards ever will. You have no clue what you're talking about.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Randomly stumbled onto your video when searching for tube amps. I was born and raised in the US and now working in China in the automobile industry. I can tell you from my experience here, Chinese manufacturing is definitely on a new level and it's gonna get even better. That scares a lot of hardcore and traditional purists that anything made in China or any developing country is "crap" compared to American or European standard. Just like 50-60 years ago, "Made in Japan" was junk and in reality, it was because they were making with the intention of being "junk" in the first place. Later in the 60s and 70s, Japan decided to stop making junk and look at their quality today. China is the same and we're gonna see this trend with other countries in the near future such as Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia and even India. What these hardcore and traditional purists should be thinking about is how to market to the Chinese because when you got a population of 1.3 billion people and with a rising middle class that has a lot of money to burn, a hell of a lot of them are gonna wanna buy "Made in USA" products because they see anything made outside China as top of the top. Regardless, I totally enjoyed your video. Have a nice day and keep it cool!
Very well said! Some Chinese hifi is way better than anything made in the west for the same price.
I own and have owned some Cayin gear, it has always left a good impression, well built, and quality gear.
You say that for a Chinese- made amp it's phenomenal. I have the A-55t Mark III version. It's phenomenal compared to many, many amps, and not just Chinese. It's designed in Germany for those who care about that. It really is so good that after listening you have to wonder how much more do I need?
Cool amp! Thanks for sharing! The bias pots are similar to my old hurricane DT's.
Thanks for this. Really balanced review and some sound diagnostics to back it up. If only all reviews were like this. This is a little more than the Yaqin's in terms of price however you have clearly demo'd the value point here and that's the point right.?.. 👍
Quite a substantial beast isn't it - a small army of tubes! One question I have is about your distortion measuring procedure - you seem to always use linear mode rather than logarithmic on the spectrum analyzer, which is unusual, and I don't think I've seen you do a two-tone intermodulation measurement.
I have a suspicion that intermodulation is what humans actually hear first when distortion is audible, since most real-world notes already come with significant harmonics and adding a tiny bit extra seems a minor thing compared to creation of multiple, non-harmonically related tones that were never present in the original signal (which is what intermodulation does).
Have the EL-34 version. It's a 70lbs, very well-built and great sounding Integrated Amplifier. I believe it's the same as Prima Luna (Spark China).
Experimented with Gold Lions, Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, Mullards, but found the original Cayin's EL-34 Chinese power tubes to be the best match for my system. I liked the Tung Sols as well, didn't like the Electro Harmonixs; the Mullards have great bass but sounded too dull. As for the pre-Amp section, I installed Gold Lions there.
Get yourself one, you won't be disappointed.
I am a babe in the woods here ,Why are the Gold Lions best for the Pre Amp? I do have a PrimaLuna Evo300, just curious about what good Pre Amp tubes do for sound. I know it’s a general question, but I am learning.
@@beagle7622 Hi Beagle76. Some tubes lean towards a warmer-duller sound, other are a little more on the brighter-detailed side. Gold Lions are on the detailed-lean side, while Mullards provide more bass but missing some detail. So, it depends on your system (speakers, source, amplifier and cables) and your subjective idea of good sound. In my system, Tung-Sols and Svetlanas are also a very good choice for the pre-amp section.
Thanks for making this video. How did the ground point issue present itself? What led your friend to believe there was a problem with the amp?
Just wanted to tell you I love your videos, I’m from Detroit and wondering if you caught the word play with the bands name. Anyway I’m new to the world of tube amps. The only one I own is one of Dennis Had’s fire bottle amps and I think it’s top notch. Thanks for making such interesting content. I have a basic understanding of 12v electric from my career as a mechanic but your videos go so much more in depth than what I typically deal with and I find it just fascinating. Thanks again keep making great content.
From your tests, it looks to me that the power supply filtering is inadequate. The basic deign of that amp should not have that much distortion at the low frequencies. A simple up-sizing of the filter caps for the plate voltage of the power output tubes should do the trick.
I just bought a chinese made amp. It is a Audioromy model 808a. I think it is a class A/B push-pull amp, because it's power is rated at 55 watts per channel into 8 ohms with less than 1% distortion(probably at 1 khz, though not specified). It has one 12ax7, two 12at7, two 6n8p, and four KT88-98's. The tubes are all cheap chinese. A guy on an a facebook group I'm also on said he has one just like mine and he thinks it sounds great, BUT he got his from another person who swapped out the cheap chinese KT-88-98's for Tung Sol 6550's, so he didn't get to hear it with the original tubes. I didn't expect any magical imaging or soundstage or any of that snake oil, but wanted undistorted sound. I figured if distortion was even 1% I wouldn't detect it with my ears, because I often dyno car amps with my AMM-1 handheld dyno and DD-1 Distortion meter and can't seem to hear 1% on them. I am going to get some Electro-Harmonix tubes soon.
If you adjust to the same miliamps at a certain voltage that does not mean that tube curves are identical. Especially made in China. Just yet more Chinese shiny ... thing. That ampermeter cost you about extra $1000.
I would like to see some transformer performance test done on this......Valves are easy to change, but transformers you have to live with.
highly considering this amp. My music does require a lot of power, even for tube watts. It's pretty intense.
I would like to see the Differant ways you can have multiple tubes per side on a AB push pull amp great show as always
Instantly liked that song !! thx man
You’re mild mannered voice belies your musical taste.. =) It would be cool if you demoed some tracks from Fun House (The Stooges..) I’ve listened to a small Cayin PP 6V6 integrated over a decade ago. And it sounded smooth and open. Lower powered but also less complicated.
I hope some day you can bench test one of those kit amps from Bob Latino. Their version of the ST70 sounds really good (with a proper selection of passive parts to perform their best..)
I love my Bob Latino ST-70 running 4 KT88s See it here... ua-cam.com/video/5GxBqAdDokA/v-deo.html
Rick
Very serious amplifier.
Very nice video.
Please confirm about the cost at present
Is this essentially the same as the CS100A? Haven't been able to find any true CS100A with KT88 reviews
Their goal is to make sure customers 100% happy and satisfied with their own products.
nice looking tube amp.
Hello everyone, what speakers to choose for this cayin ? Will these speakers work usher dancer mini two
Oh Help, I'm in the market for a Tube Amplifier and each time I look and ponder...my desire and cost go up and up! This Cayin looks stunning. Many years ago I had the Quad 22 and 202 set-up and it was fantastic after I did some mod's on it but retained the KT 66's and the two power amps were rated at only 15 watts RMS each. This is a terrific review and I'm tempted but do I really want 100 watts? Can you please explain why my 15 watt Quad's sounded more like a 50-watt Transistor amp?
Look into the Wilsenton R8. 45 watts in push pull with total of 4 KT88 /6550/EL34
This is an integrated amp. Does this integrated have a function where it warms up the tubes to avoid in rush?
I own the Cayin A-300b Mk II integrated. When I turn off amp I hear a a pop through both speakers. What could be wrong with my amp?
my speakers are 150w 4ohms. will i be able to connect to this tube amp?
At what drive level was the THD+N vs Frequency test done?
Is it 110 volt or 220.
Very good amp, i wouldnt know how to make it better and i know a lot about electronics , guess one can rage on Transformer Saturation and quality , GAP or GAPless , this kind of cap that kind of cap , but all things considered , its a great amp , you can even BIAS your Tubes , a lot of them dont have that . You even get biasing Voltmeter , thats good , that is not Chinese stuff , doesnt have those characteristics ,its richer in features then a lot of amps ,so maybe it comes from china , but its no Chinese design
Thanks for doing this video :-)
What model is your Hako solder station and how much does one cost?
I used to have a 845 SE amp from them that sounded good.
Where can a guy get a schematic for this amp keep up the awesome shows
I have had issues with component quality. I know there are some nice units made in China though. Tubes usually are better from Europe, Russia, or NOS. Just my opinion. I may look into Cayin tube amps more.
Tubes are better from Europe , i dont know why , but they are hand made , by some ladies around , thats what i know , the good ones you are mentioning , i dont know who makes new tubes good . I guess that all went to shit these days
I would swap out all those caps with Audionote ones
Wow, this is a really a drill down on the performance to the element level a true audio engineering bench test. This the high-end stuff serious audio material from China alright with a serious price tag running from 2K USD to 3.5K USD. Tube replacements could be costly too easily 500 USD
So what gave u the clue it was a grounding issue?
AD Ramirez he isn't gonna answer.
@ that iz toooo funny.....HMmmmmmm
$ 3,500 ... (Just FYI)
I bought an AR VT100 MK III for $2500. Great amp and must I say a bit better than that Chinese gear. American made also!
That’s dealer price. It’s sold at $2,250 by direct importers.
Interesting amp. Are you using mp3s as your source audio?
For just bench testing, yes. For all lab test the 8903B is the source
chineseium that works ;-)
who would have thought. 3500 bucks is a bit stiff if one of the posters here is correct. really nice looking assemblage of components though.thanks for the peek.
Once you show the frequency response is very flat what is the point of saying it has good base response? Wasn't that already determined with that measurement?
No. Good punchy bass isn't necessarily reflected by a flat response measurement.
Great video subscribed
Thanks for the review Mark, but I feel oddly disappointed by this device. My whole life I've wanted to build an amp like this. I have no desire whatsoever to buy one at any price.
Nichicon Caps are one of the best in business and you say they are not great ?? Lol
David Piçarra business arent the same word as great, you idiot.
Some of the caps are nichicon but later in the video he pointed out the generic caps alluding to your point.
Appletard
Nice! But pricey. But a good value.
You already said that the capacitors are not brand name and then we don’t Know so soon it will break. The second thing are the transformers are warm/hot, I think when I use several hours it will turn hot, so for safety purpose I won’t buy this stuff.
you just need a multimeter and a mini screwdriver to bias my tube amp. would never pay someone to bias something that can be done yourself in less than 5 minutes.
Actually you can bias it if you know what you are doing , if not voltmeter is not going to help . And a lot of amps dont have Bias circuitry so that has to be done by pros
My gut feeling is Chinese products are good outside but bad inside because they are Not so Generous To use good parts or devices inside in order to save a few pennies. That is why they are not to make high end products.
Relying on the chassis for ground return is some BS.
Nothing wrong with that
Similar to PrimaLuna.
Integrated amplifier.....
Still would not buy any high end product from china. Manufacturers support is non existent. Good luck trying to get proprietary parts.
I demo one of their dacs. The instructions were printed on newspaper.
audio phool check the audioamplified a cayin dealer here in the philippines...they have a good support for cayin amps
They have s distributor in Scotland too. Their amps are beautiful, well designed and manufactured and their 24 watt pc 845 tube powered beauty has all 5 star owner reviews on the dealers website. It costs £5500 in the UK incl VAT @ 20%
Fancy that, the Chinese make brilliant quality products! I think the Americans in particular need to seriously rethink all manner of attitudes concerning the Chinese.
Cayin make Prima Luna by the way.
made in China? No thanks!
真空管プッシュプルアンプのメリット・デメリット
メリット； 大出力が可能、NFB併用により低歪高SNワイドレンジ及び高駆動性能を実現
デメリット； ビーム多極管を出力管に採用する際はNFB併用しないと駆動性能が得れない
位相反転回路が位相特性に影響を与えてしまう場合がある
出力管の電流バランスに気を使わなければならない 他
パラPPでは出力管４本のバランスを維持するのがとても難しい マニア以外は手を出さない方がよい
stained sound
This review is biased.
Nice amp, shame about the crappy music that it is wasted on.
Good amp but I would not buy point to point 70 year old technology tube amp from China, They do not deserve the right to copy this design.
If the design is that old I guess the patent has expired too, so I guess the Chinese or anyone else can copy it to their hearts content. My point to point wired Audioromy Model 808A has nine tube sockets, all of them mounted on sturdy thick gauge metal squares bolted at all four corners to the heavy gauge chassis. My Audioromy Model 828A single ended amp has some point to point, but the four sockets for the 6H3D tubes are mounted directly to a P.C.B. They can flex too much when installing tubes and be permanently damaged.
You could always build your own. It just takes time and sourcing the components. Unless you also want to wind your own transformers, that is usually the hardest item to source.
Your bigotry towards the Chinese is duly noted. Point-to-point wiring lasts a lot longer than brittle circuit boards ever will. You have no clue what you're talking about.
@@709zzy Not all of us, trust me.
@@dedskin1 То Пајо ! :-)