There is the hidden mechanic “Game-rigging. Pay 0: put any card from your deck on top of your deck. Pay 0: put any card from your opponents deck on top of their deck”.
I remember the Gunk mechanics from the test packs. The old Decipher Star Wars CCG had a version of that. Tellingly they never brought it back after the first set, IIRC.
Gunk is a problem in a physical TCG because (1) it effectively bans the use of deck sleeves (because the tokens would stand out like a sore thumb if they aren't in those same sleeves) and (2) it means you have to retrieve all your gunk tokens from your opponent's deck after the game ends. Gunk effects do exist in both Hearthstone (mostly as cantrips that replace themselves after they do their effect) and Legends of Runeterra (as modifiers that attach themselves to existing cards in the opponent's deck) but those are exclusively digital games. Both of those games do use random generation effects comparable to booster tutors, and Hearthstone has a number that are explicitly themed as opening a (temporary) pack of cards.
Your idea of punishing the player for drawing shuffled cards is, as other comments have pointed out, an actual effect in Hearthstone. In fact, your deal 5 damage effect is literally a Bomb in HS. The problem I see, though, is in HS the game tracks your draws, so unlike a paper game like Magic, you can't pretend to not draw the Bomb.
There's a monster in Yu-Gi-Oh that goes in your opponents deck and when they draw it they take damage. There's a trap card called grave lure that goes into your opponents deck face up and if it's drawn it gets chucked instead
7:55 There’s a guy at my LGS that has a The Most Dangerous Gamer commander deck complete with Attractions. It’s actually kinda fun to play against 99% of the time.
Gunk is fun, it's identical to Curses from the Dominion card game. Booster Tutors are in my cubes, and I'd like more non-legal silver bordered tutors like this. Fuck Acorns. I don't use Attractions/contraptions/stickers so extra decks are not my thing. I'm barely happy about needing a sideboard.
i could see something similar to a fusion style extra deck like in yukon using power and toughness or specific cards. it would solve the issues that companion had and avoid adding randomness.
I have an Idea for balancing red Aggro. Fuel Counters. You can only put Fuel Counters on Opponent's Creatures and Planeswalkers. If Fuel Counters on a Creature or a Planeswalker is equal to its Toughness or Loyalty. It Ignites and deals unpreventable, Indestructible circumventing Damage to itself. Example 1: 1/1 Creature gets a Fuel Counter and dies. Example 2: Planeswalker with 3 Loyalty gets the third Fuel Counter and dies. Furthermore if excess Damage is dealt through these Counters, you can target other Creatures or Planeswalkers with it. What do you think?
I have long thought they really need to split standard into 2 different formats. 1 based more around fun maybe limit the amount of draw and counters you can have in a deck , ban a lot of the faster cards , you can allow an extra deck sort of mechanic. The 2nd would be a format based more around high level tournament play . That way the net deckers can use that super powerful decks in ranked tournaments but they can't use them in unranked play or at fnm .
Gunk is very similar to a yugioh card called parasite paracide but that card when your opponent drew it dealt 1000 out of 8000 life and turned all their creatures into insects. Also there was another card that went with it that stopped all insects from attacking . Gunk might be real fun to play if it was maybe refined and tweaked a bit.
A better description of MTG doing an extra deck (like Yu-Gi-Oh) is a Karn-board, Wish-board, or Lesson-board. Cards that pull from "outside the game" which could theoretically eratta to an extra deck rather than the sideboard.
Actually if instead of opening a booster pack it was a list of around 10 small effects you had to choose from. But you could only choose one once throughout the game and all players were pulling from the same effects. Control would not be able to get value out of it late game but everyone would want to use the mechanic to deny their opponent what they wanted.
Gunk sounds like something blue/black and I could really only see it working with something like putting the gunk card third from top (and it being removed if it would ever be shuffled or put on the bottom). Basically just some kind of toxic control thing along the same lines of putting a countered/killed spell/creature on top of someone's deck (IE: see Hinder, since the old form of the effect let the caster choose). Maybe red/white/green if it was like destroy target land, instead of putting it in the graveyard put it on top of the deck. Though I'm laughing at how angry that would make you.
Mechanic Thoughts: Gunk - as tokens, obnoxious to physically shove your *opponent's* stuff into *your* deck. Sounds like it was made with digital in mind. > I do find the intent interesting, so if anyone wants to see what I think could be a less obnoxious version of it, look at my response. Booster Tutor - No. Plain no. No "weaponizing" boosters, especially if you still have to pay for them (probably will) Extra deck - Like contraptions, yes please!!! If it's just glorified tokens, meh, but if it's a "token extra deck" that makes tokens a limited supply, possibly. Otherwise, I agree it shouldn't be in competitive play. Planechase does sound fun, though. But it sounds weird that it's not the "normal" way to play, if every MTG player is supposed to be a Planeswalker??
So, I do like the intent of Gunk as a mechanic to counter lots of card draw, I just think making Gunk physical tokens that go into the opponent's deck is obnoxious and causes lots of problems in paper. As such, I thought up a way to fix/improve/change the interaction of the mechanic while trying to keep the "spirit"/intent of the mechanic untouched (which I think is: directly screw with card advantage) Gunk Counters - Rough Rules (I'm not a judge): "Whenever you would draw a card, discard a card from your hand, or exile a card from your hand while you have Gunk Counters, remove a number of Gunk Counters from yourself equal to each card you would draw/discard/exile instead. Whenever you shuffle your deck or reveal any amount of cards from the top of your deck while you have Gunk Counters, remove 1 Gunk Counter from yourself." First, this version of Gunk would be a player counter, like experience counters. A player loses them when they *would* draw a card or put a card into exile from their hand. Additionally, Gunk Counters can be used as a replacement cost for discard effects. My reasoning is that if the Gunk token stayed in the player's hand after they draw it, it would definitely be used the same way. Lastly, I added a way to "clean" Gunk Counters off a player through ways to gain card advantage that don't necessarily deal with draw, like tutoring or "dig" effects ("look at/reveal the top X cards of your library"). My reasoning is that tutoring would already get around Gunk tokens, but doesn't interact with them, and while I like there being a counter to excessive card draw, I believe there should still be a strategy around Gunk Counters aside from brute-force drawing. I included "dig" effects because they let a player choose from a small pool of cards to add to their hand without explicitly "drawing" the cards. Gunk tokens would also clog up "dig" effects, but I can't think of a good way to convert this aside from reducing the amount of cards to dig, which can just lead to not digging at all. Some denial is good, but I figured having more than one way to get around Gunk Counters would make it better to play against for decks that aren't heavy in cars advantage. In both tutoring and "digging," I reduce Gunk Counters by 1 per effect activation because the way I see it, to "select" a specific card, you at the player are accurately and carefully getting something, instead of just blindly swiping or thinking of something to do. That simulation of forethought and precision I think should be rewarded and reflected by the Counter reduction. That's my attempt at Gunk tokens. Honestly, I do enjoy the mechanic's intent, so if anyone has thoughts on this, I'd be happy to hear them and discuss them with you.
I think gunk could work without a requirement to shuffle if you tweaked the mechanics of it a bit, like making tokens that can be sacrificed to prevent a draw or something. I love the idea, but the shuffling part in paper is just a logistical cluster fuck. My concern, given the color pie (like WotC gives a shit about that anymore) is that one of the colors that makes sense for this is black; a popular (if secondary) control color.
Heck I hate the Oilrig. Even with the dragon, I cant fly properly and avoid the lasers, so I have to get there by sea... The loot is good, but I probably need to "git gud". Maybe unlocking the quad rocket launcher, or the minigun would help.
Gunk 3 if this creature deals damage shuffle 3 gunk tokens in that players library and when a gunk token is drawn replace a card at random in there hand and shuffle that card in there library
Gunk is the shit but imo the only way to make it work is to hit it so hard back to back that eveyone has their own sleeved gunk cards to match their decks sleeves.
Instead of cards that go into a player's hand, just make a card that reduces target player's hand size by 1, but ~cardname~ counts towards their total cards in hand. So if a player has 2 ~cardname~ targeting them, their hand size is now 5 but for the purposes of anything that cares about hand size, it's still 7. Problem solved. Yeah, it can still be copied all to hell but you could do that with everything else so who cares, but if you're really worried, make it an emblem and then introduce a mechanic that gets rid of emblems because that hasn't been seen yet either.
There is the hidden mechanic “Game-rigging. Pay 0: put any card from your deck on top of your deck. Pay 0: put any card from your opponents deck on top of their deck”.
I remember the Gunk mechanics from the test packs. The old Decipher Star Wars CCG had a version of that. Tellingly they never brought it back after the first set, IIRC.
Gunk is very like a hearthstone mechanic, conjuring shit into the opponents deck
Yeah, and Des's suggestion of "Deal 5 damage" when drawn is literally a bomb from HS, except you don't draw to replace it.
there is a white creature that does just that it conjurs 3 deserts into you and your oponents deck
Gunk is a problem in a physical TCG because (1) it effectively bans the use of deck sleeves (because the tokens would stand out like a sore thumb if they aren't in those same sleeves) and (2) it means you have to retrieve all your gunk tokens from your opponent's deck after the game ends. Gunk effects do exist in both Hearthstone (mostly as cantrips that replace themselves after they do their effect) and Legends of Runeterra (as modifiers that attach themselves to existing cards in the opponent's deck) but those are exclusively digital games.
Both of those games do use random generation effects comparable to booster tutors, and Hearthstone has a number that are explicitly themed as opening a (temporary) pack of cards.
Your idea of punishing the player for drawing shuffled cards is, as other comments have pointed out, an actual effect in Hearthstone. In fact, your deal 5 damage effect is literally a Bomb in HS. The problem I see, though, is in HS the game tracks your draws, so unlike a paper game like Magic, you can't pretend to not draw the Bomb.
There's a monster in Yu-Gi-Oh that goes in your opponents deck and when they draw it they take damage. There's a trap card called grave lure that goes into your opponents deck face up and if it's drawn it gets chucked instead
7:55 There’s a guy at my LGS that has a The Most Dangerous Gamer commander deck complete with Attractions. It’s actually kinda fun to play against 99% of the time.
Gunk is fun, it's identical to Curses from the Dominion card game. Booster Tutors are in my cubes, and I'd like more non-legal silver bordered tutors like this. Fuck Acorns. I don't use Attractions/contraptions/stickers so extra decks are not my thing. I'm barely happy about needing a sideboard.
They did an extra deck mechanic in standard.
It was called companion.
i could see something similar to a fusion style extra deck like in yukon using power and toughness or specific cards. it would solve the issues that companion had and avoid adding randomness.
I have an Idea for balancing red Aggro. Fuel Counters. You can only put Fuel Counters on Opponent's Creatures and Planeswalkers. If Fuel Counters on a Creature or a Planeswalker is equal to its Toughness or Loyalty. It Ignites and deals unpreventable, Indestructible circumventing Damage to itself. Example 1: 1/1 Creature gets a Fuel Counter and dies. Example 2: Planeswalker with 3 Loyalty gets the third Fuel Counter and dies.
Furthermore if excess Damage is dealt through these Counters, you can target other Creatures or Planeswalkers with it.
What do you think?
I have long thought they really need to split standard into 2 different formats. 1 based more around fun maybe limit the amount of draw and counters you can have in a deck , ban a lot of the faster cards , you can allow an extra deck sort of mechanic. The 2nd would be a format based more around high level tournament play .
That way the net deckers can use that super powerful decks in ranked tournaments but they can't use them in unranked play or at fnm .
Gunk is very similar to a yugioh card called parasite paracide but that card when your opponent drew it dealt 1000 out of 8000 life and turned all their creatures into insects. Also there was another card that went with it that stopped all insects from attacking .
Gunk might be real fun to play if it was maybe refined and tweaked a bit.
A better description of MTG doing an extra deck (like Yu-Gi-Oh) is a Karn-board, Wish-board, or Lesson-board. Cards that pull from "outside the game" which could theoretically eratta to an extra deck rather than the sideboard.
I have all of those things in my cube.
Actually if instead of opening a booster pack it was a list of around 10 small effects you had to choose from. But you could only choose one once throughout the game and all players were pulling from the same effects. Control would not be able to get value out of it late game but everyone would want to use the mechanic to deny their opponent what they wanted.
Gunk sounds like something blue/black and I could really only see it working with something like putting the gunk card third from top (and it being removed if it would ever be shuffled or put on the bottom). Basically just some kind of toxic control thing along the same lines of putting a countered/killed spell/creature on top of someone's deck (IE: see Hinder, since the old form of the effect let the caster choose).
Maybe red/white/green if it was like destroy target land, instead of putting it in the graveyard put it on top of the deck. Though I'm laughing at how angry that would make you.
Just WOTC bringing up these mechanics guarantees they'll pull out at least one of them.
Mechanic Thoughts:
Gunk - as tokens, obnoxious to physically shove your *opponent's* stuff into *your* deck. Sounds like it was made with digital in mind.
> I do find the intent interesting, so if anyone wants to see what I think could be a less obnoxious version of it, look at my response.
Booster Tutor - No. Plain no. No "weaponizing" boosters, especially if you still have to pay for them (probably will)
Extra deck - Like contraptions, yes please!!! If it's just glorified tokens, meh, but if it's a "token extra deck" that makes tokens a limited supply, possibly. Otherwise, I agree it shouldn't be in competitive play. Planechase does sound fun, though. But it sounds weird that it's not the "normal" way to play, if every MTG player is supposed to be a Planeswalker??
So, I do like the intent of Gunk as a mechanic to counter lots of card draw, I just think making Gunk physical tokens that go into the opponent's deck is obnoxious and causes lots of problems in paper. As such, I thought up a way to fix/improve/change the interaction of the mechanic while trying to keep the "spirit"/intent of the mechanic untouched (which I think is: directly screw with card advantage)
Gunk Counters - Rough Rules (I'm not a judge): "Whenever you would draw a card, discard a card from your hand, or exile a card from your hand while you have Gunk Counters, remove a number of Gunk Counters from yourself equal to each card you would draw/discard/exile instead. Whenever you shuffle your deck or reveal any amount of cards from the top of your deck while you have Gunk Counters, remove 1 Gunk Counter from yourself."
First, this version of Gunk would be a player counter, like experience counters. A player loses them when they *would* draw a card or put a card into exile from their hand.
Additionally, Gunk Counters can be used as a replacement cost for discard effects. My reasoning is that if the Gunk token stayed in the player's hand after they draw it, it would definitely be used the same way.
Lastly, I added a way to "clean" Gunk Counters off a player through ways to gain card advantage that don't necessarily deal with draw, like tutoring or "dig" effects ("look at/reveal the top X cards of your library"). My reasoning is that tutoring would already get around Gunk tokens, but doesn't interact with them, and while I like there being a counter to excessive card draw, I believe there should still be a strategy around Gunk Counters aside from brute-force drawing. I included "dig" effects because they let a player choose from a small pool of cards to add to their hand without explicitly "drawing" the cards. Gunk tokens would also clog up "dig" effects, but I can't think of a good way to convert this aside from reducing the amount of cards to dig, which can just lead to not digging at all. Some denial is good, but I figured having more than one way to get around Gunk Counters would make it better to play against for decks that aren't heavy in cars advantage.
In both tutoring and "digging," I reduce Gunk Counters by 1 per effect activation because the way I see it, to "select" a specific card, you at the player are accurately and carefully getting something, instead of just blindly swiping or thinking of something to do. That simulation of forethought and precision I think should be rewarded and reflected by the Counter reduction.
That's my attempt at Gunk tokens. Honestly, I do enjoy the mechanic's intent, so if anyone has thoughts on this, I'd be happy to hear them and discuss them with you.
I think gunk could work without a requirement to shuffle if you tweaked the mechanics of it a bit, like making tokens that can be sacrificed to prevent a draw or something. I love the idea, but the shuffling part in paper is just a logistical cluster fuck.
My concern, given the color pie (like WotC gives a shit about that anymore) is that one of the colors that makes sense for this is black; a popular (if secondary) control color.
Extra Deck? Are we doing YGO now? Not that I'm against it when those things can be fun to use; specially around Planechase
Heck I hate the Oilrig. Even with the dragon, I cant fly properly and avoid the lasers, so I have to get there by sea...
The loot is good, but I probably need to "git gud". Maybe unlocking the quad rocket launcher, or the minigun would help.
Gunk 3 if this creature deals damage shuffle 3 gunk tokens in that players library and when a gunk token is drawn replace a card at random in there hand and shuffle that card in there library
Gunk is the shit but imo the only way to make it work is to hit it so hard back to back that eveyone has their own sleeved gunk cards to match their decks sleeves.
i feel sleeves makes gunk not work well
As a part time casual observer of M:TG I like the first one, Gunk. Just not a big fan of the name. I get it. Just not a fan of it.
Instead of cards that go into a player's hand, just make a card that reduces target player's hand size by 1, but ~cardname~ counts towards their total cards in hand. So if a player has 2 ~cardname~ targeting them, their hand size is now 5 but for the purposes of anything that cares about hand size, it's still 7. Problem solved.
Yeah, it can still be copied all to hell but you could do that with everything else so who cares, but if you're really worried, make it an emblem and then introduce a mechanic that gets rid of emblems because that hasn't been seen yet either.
They did extra deck with stickers and it nearly destroyed legacy. Ironically nobody plays legacy anyways but still.
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@@DesolatorMagicHave you had a problem in the past with what people post, thus necessitating this restriction?
I like gunk.
It's good with guac.