Humus Does Not Exist In Soil - The New Science of Humus
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- Science says humus and humic substances do not exist in soil!
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Humus Does Not Exist In Soil - The New Science of Humus
humic substances don't exist either.
List of Credits:
Images:
All slides and videos belong to GardenFundamentals.com or are public domain images, except for the following:
soil in hand by Lou Gold:www.flickr.com/photos/visions...
large molecule by Argonne National Laborato:www.flickr.com/photos/argonne...
vintage lab seen by Cushing Memorial Library a:www.flickr.com/photos/cushing...
lab scene by University of Michigan Sch:www.flickr.com/photos/snre/10...
vintage lab showing two people by Georg Holderied: www.flickr.com/photos/polapix...
ippr molecule by Opabinia regalis:commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
long molecule: ndla.no/nn/subject:1:f18b0daa...
feces by Sue Gardner:commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
lava rock by Bruce McKay:commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
gut bacteria by NIH Image Gallery:www.flickr.com/photos/nihgov/... - Навчання та стиль
Humus refers to the mixture of decomposed organic matter and minerals found in soil. It is not a single, well-defined substance, but rather a complex mixture of various organic and inorganic compounds. The composition of humus can vary depending on the types of plants and animals that have decomposed in the soil, as well as environmental factors such as temperature, moisture, and the presence of microorganisms.
Thank you for explaining soil science in terms simple enough for anyone to understand! I enjoy watching your videos then being able to have a more informed discussion with my agronomist husband who has spent a lot of his 40+ years of consulting debunking “snake oil” products that are marketed to his clients.
How interesting. I always thought humus was a light and fluffy mostly decomposed compost rather than a separate material.
Something akin to the undisturbed soil found in a woodland setting.
I've never seen bagged "humus" but that could be because I make much of my own compost and leaf mold.
Absolutely correct, he's on some self-defined quest for relevance here.
Their is a bagged humus one made by general hydroponics it had a very unique texture and look not like a compost, it was like a perfect blend of organic matter and clay and sand I guess you could call it loam or soil that’s been decomposing under a tree for a very long tree
Thanks for covering this important topic.
Supercool, that you made this. I have learned a lot from you.
Brilliant education delivery and substance. Thanks heaps.
You sir are one of the best science communicators I have encountered on UA-cam. The cutting edge information and clear and concise explanations are absolutely on point. I wish you all the success in the world 🙏
Wow, thanks!
Can you elaborate on the science of humus?
Sweet and simple. Thank you
Between 1998 and 2011 I studied the so-called Humic Substances of soil at Los Alamos National Labs and Sandia National Labs. We successfully purified from soil and from material we replicated as bioidentical the recalcitrant fraction of soil carbon and by doing a molecular characterization study, the same kind of true chemical analysis done to find describe proteins, enzymes, hormones, etc., we were able to find a molecular substance that does occur in soil. This video is not entirely accurate! However, I will say that the terms Humic, Fulvic, and Humin are perhaps too simplistic as the molecules that form in soil are very powerful induced magnetic fields with very specific Functional Groups attached to them and they are also Supramolecular. The research was done using a Commercial Proprietary Information Contract.
Very interesting
"This video is not entirely accurate!" - which part is not accurate? Provide the links to the studies.
"The molecules that form in soil are very powerful induced magnetic fields" what are you trying to say?
@@hhwippedcream 😃sure, but stop being condescending. There are people that passed the first few grades. Why are you trying to answer a question that challenged a dumb statement? Moreover, you continue with a statement that shows you having no clue of what you are talking about.
@@Gardenfundamentals1 I chatted with Michael here ua-cam.com/video/HM01Tl-FzQ8/v-deo.html where he describes the molecule and its properties, still so much to learn! :)
Thank you for this video. In the lawn maintenance world, humic acid is heavily promoted. I tried one product but didn't see anything amazing happen and was skeptical of its benefits. The combination of biochar (charcoal) was thought to enhance the humic acid's effectiveness. They typically use a lot of scientific sounding rhetoric to make their case. Your video and the references make a stronger case in my opinnion.
Thanks for the great information! 😊
Helps me grow big fruitful flowers! I love fulvic acid!
Super interesting and valuable video.
The informations you give us are so important that everyone should learn. Your biochemistry background help you to scientifically understand and you give us that informations free. I am glad that I find your channel and your Website. I have also bioengineering and molecular biology background so I understand your scientific explanations. I am so interested in gardening and agriculture. So far I heard to much misinformation that turns around people's mind about gardening and soil health maybe most of it comes from commercial agricultural producers. I am from Türkiye and if its possible I reccomend you to add Turkish subtitles to your videos. If I had time I would love to do that for your Turkish followers. I wish you a long and safe life.
Thanks for the offer, but there is just too little time.
Very interesting indeed, we have much to learn about the organic aspect of soils. We often want a quick fix for soils but it is hard to replace or replicate a natural organic process that takes time.
Just start mulching, it’s not rocket science. If you want to speed up the process use compost tea. Elaine Ingham is the source for this information
@monica Cruz yes, I am aware of Elaine Ingram.
Oh wow, I'm almost won over. This would be rather huge. Definitely going to investigate further.
I watched the video expecting somenthing new, but it just solidified what I learned from agroforestry. You bring life to the soil and the soil gives life back. It's a living entity in the complex system that is earth it self.
Wow, this is great stuff. Thanks for the reference to Lehmann and Kleber's work. I love the simple molecule size issue you've brought up as it has been perplexing to rationalize. It would seem: one can easily look at the molecular diagrams of fulvic and humic acids, so I'm thinking they must "exist" -and they do directly relate to the breakdown of lignin and cellulose, but I prefer the carbon FLOW perspective rather than the carbon stock perspective as it emphasizes the importance of the microbial ecology in the rhizosphere rather than the build up of humates (if they indeed exist). This makes me wonder if you've taken a look at Sarah Wright's work on glomalin, or "glomalin related soil proteins", the glycoprotein exudate of mycorrhizal hyphae. Rather than the pH 13 extract you've pointed to for humate extraction, glomalin is extracted with an acidic extraction at extreme temperatures (250°F!)... and it makes me wonder about your "humush" comment! I've been promoting humates as a potential buffer for saline or "reclaimed" water issues. I've seen some good results (reduced phytotoxicity) and it would make sense that the "humus" would increase the CEC and allow for more Na bonding (and less in solution). But if it doesn't exist...? Perhaps the exchange sites are just on other molecules in the continuum of organic matter decomposition and not on a "humus" element. Any thoughts you may have on Glomalin or the saline buffering effects of "humates" would be appreciated. Oh man, am I going to have to put "humus" in quotes from now on? LOL. Thanks again!
I would love to have a link to the research that was sighted.
Once more, the science points to nature over artificial chemicals. Great video 👍
awesome video, thank u!
Thank you.
This topic is so interesting
You are slaying a pop icon here. Humic Acid additives makes money for the manufacturer nothing more. "But bro i added it to one raised bed, watered and fertelized and it worked wonders." Compost/amend your garden yearly to keep your soil cycle going and save your save your money on humic acid...
Last spring I started adding a scoop of fulvic acid into my foliar spray because of the claim that it helps penetrate into the plant cells. I’m not declaring that it works for sure but I had pretty good results last year where the deer didn’t interfere.
This has been studied by a university, especially when combined with Kelp. As a mix, it was more effective than either product alone. So there is something to Fulvic that is legit.
Thank you ❄️💚🙃
From what I have learned from Christine Jones, the main way in which stable carbon molecules are built in the soil is via the liquid carbon pathway via plant root exudates rather than through organic matter decomposing on the surface. Very little decaying organic matter forms stable carbon structures in the soil, most is oxidised to CO2. This is why you cannot build soil just by putting compost on top. You need living plant roots to build soil.
I don't think that is what Jones says. I think what she says is that much of the organic matter is soil comes from plant exudates and not added material. But neither source produces stable organic matter and once microbes start working on it - it is all the same. If anything plant exudates are even easier for microbes to degrade.
@@HowToDriveinOregonReviews Burying wood under soil is not the same as putting it on the surface. oxidation will be slower, though the normal aerobic microbial decomposition process of the wood in your mound will still emit CO2, in the same way any aerobic compost pile will.
@@HowToDriveinOregonReviews Agree it is surprising, and I don't understand nearly enough about it. But I have heard from multiple soil biologists that not much of decomposing organic matter becomes stable soil carbon. Whether that is because those microbes that build the stable soil aggregates must be associated with living plant roots, I don't know, but that seems to be what Christine Jones suggests. A hugelkultur bed is not really soil in the truest sense, as it does not have the weathered rock parent material (sand, silt, clay), it is 100% organic matter, (unless your building it with actual soil of course).
@@Gardenfundamentals1 are you deleting my comments? They keep disappearing.
You cite one study from 2002 that says humic acid doesn't benefit turf grass, but then since then there's been a lot of research done showing that it does benefit turf grass.
Really - but you could not find one link to post here?
Finally put this matter to bed, so to speak, for me at least - another great video Rob. I've read your article/s about compost tea and I would love to see a video on KNF and similar methods, I was told that I could "extract hormones and other chemicals from plants via fermentation and sugar extraction" but this sounds like it has no basis in reality.....any thoughts or a video would be appreciated very much. Keep up the great work.
You can always extract hormones - but how much do you get, and will the hormones help plants grow? I am skeptical it will do any good.
@@growinglifeorganic940 That's what has been done. If you have published research that suggests otherwise then you should share it or else it's just an opinion.
Matt Powers has a video on KNF, IMO 1 and 2, interesting stuff
@@monicacruz4407 I was looking for scientific papers, I watch his stuff but I turn to the science first
@@iAVs-Sandponics references are there
I kept trying to figure out what exactly humic acid was and I couldn't find an answer.
Diverse microbes =nutrient dense soil.
8:33 "...all organic matter in soil..."In fact that was exactly my understanding of humus until today when I first heard about fulvic acid, humic acid and humin...
But it goes even further...not all organic matter has the same quality even at the same quantity, "healthy soil" is referred as the symbiotic balance of the soil and its ability to mantain a stable and substantial biodiversity over a long time...
humic substances, and fulvics, are simply fractions extracted from the soil in aqueous solution with either a basic or acidic solution, i forget which one is which. but they can also be classified by molecular weight, humic substances are very high molecular weight and fulvic high molar.... meaning humic can enter root tissue and carry in large quantities of small metal ions, bypassing active membrane pumping.
fulvics are smaller and can do the same thing in roots, but also through leaves and stems so useful for foliar feeding.
Obrigado
Humus has been described in the "Teaming with..." series of books, with confidence. Who do I believe if I have neither the time or the access to investigating the matter myself?
biochar creates a good microscopic structure for the microbes to collect and exchange nutrients with the plant root fungus.
An interesting perspective on an important subject. Whilst I agree that the key is to feed the microbes, you can, in fact see humic and fulvic acid aggregates in soil and compost if you look through a shadowing microscope, but only if the soil is healthy and full of the microbes that made them (unhealthy soil won't have any!). I think this is consistent with the message in the video. Key thing - healthy soil is based on the biology living in it. Your point on the longevity of humics is well made. Based on observations here at farm scale, its clear that whilst Humic Macroaggregates built by fungi appear pretty stable in healthy soil (PH notwithstanding), catastrophic events (including things like excessive tillage, application of inorganic salts (ferts) and a number of 'cides) seem to hasten their demise. Fulvic microaggregates - (honey coloured and produced mainly by bacteria as you imply) appear to be less robust (unless stitched together by fungi!)
"you can, in fact see humic and fulvic acid aggregates in soil and compost if you look through a shadowing microscope" - why is it then that no scientist has seen this???
You can see aggregation - you can't see humic and fulvic acid aggregates - because there is no such thing!
What would Elaine Ingham say…?
@@Gardenfundamentals1 those working in regenerative agriculture are working with this on a daily basis. Have a look at Elaine Ingram’s work for example.
@@monicacruz4407 in gonna guess she'd say it's around 20% detirivores in a healthy system
@@Gardenfundamentals1 you sir have given me a lot to ponder.
Never heard these talking points. I always heard the commerciall products come from Leonardite, and the benefits were more from the carbon infused with dense minerals. My only experience was with a customer who lives in Pine Ridge Sandhills and had the darkest soil full of worms using a commercial product I have ever seen anywhere. Extremely rare with people in sand using only pine bark.
was he able to get the pine bark to work better, or did he bring in some other organic matter? If you were using oine bark in your soil, why note long composted pine chips?
I've been ranting about this for literally 3 years since I figured it out myself. XD
Highly interesting and can we get some literature links please. Shared the video and subscribed to the garden blog. Humus debunked.
www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/
ANy quick thoughts about biochar? I was kinda surprised you don't have a video about this subject.
www.gardenmyths.com/biochar-work-garden/
@@Gardenfundamentals1 thanks for thr quick reply, sir. I will check it out today.
Wow this is fascinating. But also makes complete sense. We should practice more holistic science that looks at how systems interact instead of reductively studying individual things in isolation.
This is hilarious.
I assumed Humus was a fibrous structure within the soil. I never knew what it now isn't. :D
Is it true that we can fix compacted soil by using humid substance that has high repulsive forces to increase more space between soil molecules.
You mean humic substances - no they won't fix compaction.
www.gardenmyths.com/humic-substances-humic-acid-garden/
Can you please post a link to the quote from Wikipedia? I couldn't find it. Thanks
The quote comes from the "Humic Substance" article.
There were many attempts to include it on the "Humus" article but it didn't hold water. The "Humic Substances" article is a mess and conflates different things and misquotes and misinterprets the paper.
The quote which purportedly comes from the paper, does not. The word "elusive" is used but in regard to a different mechanism. The whole quote is simply somebody's uninformed opinion. The paper does not suggest that Humus does not exist. Additionally, there is no replication.
This activity is likely coming from the anti-climate-change industry.
@@ajksdfvgnpasovnf that's more or less what I suspected. thanks
THANKYOU Sir, great explabation, but if you have explained why we are getting results using these Humic or Fulvic acids it would have been a complete review on Humus or humic substances, Hope soon you will be doing one on it Sir, THANKYOU
"why we are getting results using these Humic or Fulvic acids" - how could I possibly do such a video? I have no copy of the testing you have done? But if it is published - give me the link.
@@Gardenfundamentals1 Thankyou Sir for replying, sorry if you are offended Sir , it is not my intension
@@Gardenfundamentals1 why not do some testing of your own?
Cheers... like to ask if you could be on the future cannabis project UA-cam show to talk about this humic in living soil.. thanks
I would be interested in doing that, but i can't figure out how to contact owners of UA-cam channels.
You can contact me through my blog www.gardenmyths.com/public-speaking-topics-robert-pavlis/
I just figured it out and emailed Peter.
I never knew anything about humus and never worried about it. Never gave it one moment of my attention. Now I never will.
I do agree with the end conclusions
I knew it, I keep hearing this humus that humus but when I'm studying about agriculture and understand how organic fertilizer works. All I know is just organism, feces, microorganism, humidity, carbon. No humus mentioned at all.
In Steve Solomon’s The Intelligent Gardener, he says most top soils contain plenty of organic matter for home gardener, usually between 7-10%, 12% being ideal once all other elements are at correct amounts and in correct balance. The point is, other than an initial investment of replacing some of the macro and micronutrients that might be low in your soil, there isn’t much to “buy” with natural organic farming. So if you’re getting your information for free, they’re probably trying to sell you something.
What? Humus is merely the surface layer of used organic matter that Nature has found useful to blanket the soil (sun, raindrops, hoof pressures, etc.) and provide a smorgasbord for the critters. Which uses it as it is capable and sees fit. The breakdown (composting) of that decaying matter can also produce acids, alkalines which act as triggers for further biological activity.
The human contribution is to be aware of the deleterious effects of thermophiles, etc. and take action if necessary.
"Adding humus to the soil", not by digging I hope, that's a ridiculous concept except in the initial stage of any reclamation of any plot. Fundamental: Science does not override Nature.
so, humus is the word for "soil life web".
Cool opinion, bro. It's not the size of the molecule. It's the motion of the ocean.
You can generally say anything you like about gardening or soil online ..it's a subject matter riddled with myths and opinions and falsehoods.
Best source for real information is
Agricultural ..not backyard people
Basically humus is just a vague term, humic acid is like a magazine , a specific issue, while humus is like a library..
@ 5:14 ... "Suddenly you have huge molecule called humus." ... You say this after you just got finished saying (@ 3:37)that "almost nothing is known about the molecular structure of humus. So, how do you know it's large?
HUMUS is people! My gosh humus is humans! 😆
Interesting that we've had a name for a substance without a chemical structure or composition. If it's extracted with strong alkaline substances how do you backwards construct what these substances originally contacted? Good point that it must be resistant to soil microbes for it to remain in the soil once it enters the soil, and for a long time. Interesting thought that what we are calling humus is the result of dead microbe which have ingested organic compounds. So: Humus = alkalinized microbe mush. So as Dirt Doctor Howard Garrett has often pointed out: Grow good microbes to grow good plants.
Can’t argue with science 🌱
Science is designed to (competently) argue with science
@@dei2226 indeed, or it wouldn't be science....yet get into deep engineering on many subjects and you'll agree, consensus has to achieved at some point..... just go pressure fit some parts together and tell me some guys science back in 1950's wasn't the source of your ease of progress...... and that's because something was indeed figured out and agreed upon.
@@curiousbystander9193 established consensus does not prohibit furter enquiry and challenging the consensus itself. As soon as consensus is set in stone - it is not science anymore, it is religious dogma
I liked your video...and I've subscribed and been to your garden myths blog. But, please lose the hat...it doesn't lend gravitas to your excellent information.🙂🙂🤗.
Interesting video. Just as a comment: One should be aware that these new findings could be as wrong as the ideas they want to replace. A single study does not say anything really... There has to be more follow-up to consider this new view as reliable. Again: I do NOT say it is wrong, I say that it is too early to decide who is right and who is wrong.
It is not a single study - thousands of studies have failed to define humus. And the new idea has been around for several hundred years - as the video says.
@@Gardenfundamentals1 several hundred years?
And what about falafel? Does it exist or is it also too good to be true?
If humus isn’t real, where does that leave chickpeas? 😮😮😢
Thumbs up
this was informative. but, i don't think they carry no benefit even as soil amendments... it's just giving a name to something in compost that people discovered nothing wrong with that... but some humic products are derived from coal, but i still see nothing wrong with that either
Interesting. As with any science, it's not settled. I have seen very positive impacts from using humic substances, especially to chelate other minerals. Humic acid to chelate basic minerals and fulvic to chelate acid minerals. E.g. humic acid with copper sulfate or fulvic with boric acid. I don't know this channel at all, but it's one thing to review scientific literature and another to make observations in the real world. Are these critical substances that everyone should use? Maybe, maybe not. I have seen them help stimulate soil biology and work as very cheap chelating agents. I'll check out your link and dig a little deeper.
Any links to science?
@@Gardenfundamentals1 are you asking for a URL to an academic paper or asking what the connection between my comment is and "science"?
Forget everything you knew about humus..
Done
Humus: the dark matter of the soil
What microwaves do to brains
Humus… Mulch, compost and horse manure. Put down the microscope and just take a whiff. Mix humus into the existing soil. Keep it damp so the microbes can do their thing. Whatever that is.
I thought he was going to talk about hummus.
Humic and fulvic acids are not made from anthracite coal they are made from brown coal, which is highly compressed peat moss.
So shilajit doesn't have humus or doesn't not have fulvic acid and humic acid and amino acids and Enzymes .dammn I bought this fulvic acid for my blue berries 😢 it helps chelate and makes it more easier to up take npk in any ph level . So I don't have to acidify the soil . This kinda reminds me of space we have cgi and pictures of space but no body gots a real picture or video of outer space or mars ect ect
Humus exists! It is indeed not one big molecule, but I dont know who is promoting this idea anyway. Instead it is described as the sum of the decomposed organic matter in the soil. It also contains humin acids and the like which might not look like this dark lab mixture that you were showing but they are there.
But indeed there is still alot to study on that subject and we should not blindly buy any chemicals that promise to improve your soil. Instead just put back the nutrients of your plants to your soil by mulching and composting, plant some nitrogen fixers and care for your soil fungal life.
👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
Dang, what am I gonna do with all this pita then?
Sounds like a higgs boson particle or a quark god particle
grind up some chickpeas, add tahini, olive oil, lemon juice, garlic and blend. What about that "doesn't exist"?
Damnit, beat me to the punch!
hummus!
@@Gardenfundamentals1 tomAto, tomahto
sorry, but after being an organic gardener for 20 years, I have never heard from ANYONE that humus lasts thousands of years in the soil.
check the literature.
I agree with Garden Fundamentals. Humus is generally described in soil science as being a series of 'stable' organic macromolecules. 'Stable' = biochemically stable (can't be further decomposed by microorganisms). You can also look up a useful raio called the humification coefficient.
I will inform the chick peas around the world. No worries, I got this..🤣😂
Strange...I learned that humus is the endproduct of composting, simply the organic matter in the soil, in contrast to the inorganic matter, with bacteria and fungi constantly gnawing on it and thus delivering nutrients as plantlife needs it (Simply said). As the organic matter in a given place highly depends on vegatation and fauna it would be kind of weird if you could find "THE" humus molecule, but to conclude humus doesn't exist in soil I find a bit far fetched...
Your definition of humus is not the standard definition that has been used for many years - it is closer to the new definition.
I get from your name that you might be german, and the german wikipedia-article does contain other information than the english one. It is explicitely made clear that humic acids, fulvic acids and humins are substances with variable molecular structure, because they relusult from different processes done to different materials. So, it might be that research published in german was simply not aknowledged in the anglophone world because of the language barrier. This is not too uncommon, so I would not be suprised.
@@johannalvarsson9299 maybe, though I can't resist to pronounce that what I learned about humus I learned in times where Wikipedia didn't exist yet...as the internet in general. In so far I wonder...
Yes, humic acids have been characterized and they are very large and very complicated. Just do a google search for "humic acid chemical structure" Many, many examples. They are not simple enough to categorize into a narrow definition. To say this has not been done is wrong and you are further confusing people.
Do you really think I am so stupid I didn't google this before I made the video? Did you bother to read the blog post link in the description that contains all the links to scientific studies that verify what I say?
must bacteria cannot be reproduced in laboratory do bacterias don t exist,life cannot be seen under microscope nor explain so life don t exist..orgone cannot be observ so doesn exist..where is life on other planets???
By adding humic acid to my soil, I got greener plants. So I think you are wrong.
Man saying "humus" this many times is comical I can't take it seriously anymore I'm sorry I'm sleep deprived.
can exist even if it doesn t exist? what the eck
Just like old vi-rus-sians!!!
The end of a foot. No more humus.
Worms make it all happen.
I thought humus = worm castings
No - definitely not.
its a toroid
CARBON
humus exist in my pita.
Please stop the loud clicking.
So confusing with all these lawn gurus pumping these products with humus etc and then this guy makes a cogent argument against it all.. Ughh.
The humic and fulvic acids are the alkaline and acid soluble fraction of the organic matter measure by percentage. Commercial fulvic acid is used as a chelator. It's an naturally alternative to EDTA. Agronomists & growers add it to trace minerals for foliar application. Some of the fulvic acid products are coal derived but the bulk are of derived from fermented organic matter. There's not a lot of uniformity in products available. I understand why you might be skeptical. You should list the papers you reference. Are you reading the research out of cornell? You did not make a convincing argument in this video.
The link to my blog post is in the description. www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/
humus is used by plants. you need to look at trhis with a logical mind . if humus isnt used by plants then there should a swamp of humus.
This is just as misleading as a product labeled and sold as Humus. lol
I disagree. My practical experience showed me great results
your experience vs science?
Science does chang often.
What do you think is the origin of crude oiks
What a pile of ... I think what you really meant is that "everything you knew about humus was and still is wrong". Nice confession btw.
Humus' origin is pretty well known. Try to do a search about coal formation or read a good book about coal.