Does Defence Actually Win Titles?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Does Defence Actually Win Titles?
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The signings of Virgil van Dijk and Alisson have been credited with instructing both Liverpool’s title win and last season’s Champions League, finally toughening a defence which had long been the club’s Achilles heel; Sir Alex Ferguson once said that “attack wins you games, but defence wins you titles” - and has Jurgen Klopp proved him right?
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Tifo football: Does defence actually wins titles
Mourinho: I sink so
Every Mourinho team has had great attacking players. Drogba, Lampard, Robben, Costa, Milito, Etoo, Zlatan, Snejder, CR7, Kaka, Higuain, Bensema, Özil, Lukaku, Kane, Son.
"three nil, three nil.. Respect respect"
@@otto_jk yeah the 2004-2010 era of mourinho was just masterpiece interms of attack and defence both
@@MeazurAli sree*
Otto JK so
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins championships.” -Bear Bryant
Offence wins league, defence wins cup
Roll tide.
@@tcguanz 100% true!
tcguanz correct
I think balance is key. If you’re too defensively minded you’re sitting deep and soaking up pressure which makes it harder for you to score and win. If you’re attacking all the time and not defending your lead, you’ll throw points away. In Liverpool’s case, their defence is so rock solid it gives attacking players the freedom to be creative and score at will.
I remember reading a statistic that said that three teams that were relegated in the Serie A scored around the same amount of goals as title winners AC Milan in the same season. That's probably a good example of how the defense is extremely important in winning titles.
Milan won the league scoring only 36 goals (I think in 1996)
Milan scored 36, 1 goal more than relegated Udinese and Atalanta in 1993/94
@@123scorer my bad, don't know why I said 32.
Put that into context and now look at Atalanta, haha. 80 or so goals.
And an even better is that the team scoring the most goals wins the CL almost every year... idiot.
I love how there's all this deep analysis just to tell us "scoring more goals and conceding as few as possible is probably for the way forward".
Right, which is pretty much what defense is there for, to hold out the game until you can edge ahead. I think they tried to overthink this one just a little too much.
I think better defences win you titles. If you have one or two quality attackers, you’ll always nick a goal.
Hahaha I thought the same thing
And the answer would actually be control
@@matheuscerqueira7952 but that's not the answer either, especially in modern football. Most teams are ok with you having possession if they're better and more potent when they have it.
"Your Skrtel evolved into a Van Djik" 😅😅
I thought Skrtel evolved into Wartortle.....?
Daniel Leyland wtf u living in the past this is in the new pokemon game pokemon diamond crystal pearl black gem XXIIIVV
@@ibrah17m its a joke dude, skyrtel sounds like squirtle.
@@keytostart7053 that was a joke aswell
That got me good
VVD got them EVs maxed on defence
His nature is prob relaxed as well
🤣🤣🤣
Nice to see some Pokemon references.
With the move body press vvd is op
VVD def got max-PP on Defense Curl
5:24 Skrtel is evolving? Nice graphic! He was good at his best and very poor at his worst. Whereas Van dijk is supreme at his best and average at his worst.
Of course, Skrtel is a warrior who gave his all in every single game. He peaked at various times of his career and contributed massively with his headers, but his tackling and errors were hard to be overlooked.
In 2013 no player scored more goals against Liverpool than Skrtel... 6 own goals. What a guy!
Yea, he scored more than Fernando Torres did in 2013/14 season. will always cherish his headers in that Arsenal game
A skrtel evolved into van dijk? Love that
What about a karius evolved into an adrian?
Actually the numbers suggests that karius is better by a few margin than Adrian and mignolet. Yeah, i'm shocked too
Kemal Fajar thats like a ratata evolving into raticate nothing special
@@yugoutsunomiya7642 In hindsight, maybe that tragedy that happened to Karius in Kyiv was the main factor that made Klopp went all in for Ali in the next transfer window. And it's all paid out big time for them!
Karius was a good keeper who had a shocking game. It's a shame for him, but it happens.
Bro stats suggest Karius was better
My sandwich for lunch was sponsored by The Athletic
it probably provided them with a source
This joke is dead because they're part of the Athletic now... Can we just move on?
@@yaboyMAP sauce*
was your sandwich excellent reading for Liverpool fans?
@@nidhalmahjoubi7964 Booo joke police 😡
Does defence actually wins titles?
Ask 2010 Inter Milan squad.
mourinho didnt win anything in a long time though, perhaps it is no longer a viable tactic?
😂😂
Ask current Man City squad, they can tell you what looses titles.....and its certainly not goal-drought!
Ask 2011 Barca. Ask 2013 Bayern. Ask 2014 Real... Ask 2015 Barca... etc etc etc... stupid.
@DEMONIC MACHINE he coached man united and tottenham im not sure what your standarts are but his tactic are clearly not as affective as they used to be
The Coutinho transfer fee was spent on VVD and AB. Liverpool sacrificed creativity in midfield for defence, which was vital in them turning from a good team to a top team.
Skrtel should be evolving into Wrturtel
Lionel Messi wins you titles
Ask Barça
That's going quite well right now...
Or not.
Ask Argentina...
Yeah we saw that in previous 2 champions leagues
BobbyG I will use this as a burn to my barca fanboy friends
It's interesting to see that until 2004 it was the attack who decided the PL title and after 2004 it became the defense.
Mourinho really changed football!
Just imagine the Nightmare A manager has.....when Mustafi Phil Jones And David Luiz with Karius as the Goalie.....🤣🤣🤣
Karius wasn't that bad except for the CL final where he have concussion then his form just goes to league 1
@@markv9 And he was never seen in a Liverpool shirt ever again after that, one of the best decision Liverpool made
The mamager would be fired
Or the agent will be fired
Or the team.would be so bad that those 3 would be best in the team
MARK VILASKHAMPHEE Ligue 1 is actually the fifth best league in Europe. So shut up pl fanboy.
@@markv9 stop using concussion as an excuse the concussion was in 1st half and he played through out the game
Yes, you only need to look at Liverpool in 2013/14 with Mignolet, Lovren, Skrtel etc who came close to the title and compare that team to this season. Yes the attack is also better now but the major difference is the back four and keeper
You ONLY? Wdym only? There are plenty of examples that support your notion and vice versa
The video literally showed you that statement is wrong, and yet 256 muppets and counting liked this.
@@TheRafaelBond I think they're trying to underplay it statistically but football is a game of flow, if you look at defense being your best form of offense and vice versa, then what they're saying doesn't make much sense. I'm an Arsenal fan, we haven't won anything consistently since we've dashed our robust, defensive principals. And even with Liverpool, they had similar attacking players for several seasons and actually scored more goals but didn't achieve any honors till they shored up their spine. Stats don't necessarily prove everything in this game.
@@TheRafaelBond The video showed that defense isn't more important than the attack, not that defense isn't a big factor in winning
Lovren was still at Southampton when Liverpool finished 2nd in 2013-14 season
This couldn’t be more true. After van dijk, gomez and matips injuries. We have crumbled over the last months more than Joel’s ankles.
Chelsea 2004-05
Goals conceded - 15
In Italy we are used to say that the team with the best defense is more likely to win the title.
This theory founds strong support to data: from 1992/93 to 2018/19, the best defense won 20 times (74%) meanwhile the best attack only 11 times (41%).
In fact, football in Italy seems to be less attack-orientated than English one, and it reflects often in match spectacularity.
Best defense usually wins Tournaments.
Best attacking usually wins leagues.
Best of Both usually wins Trebol.
You can't win the league without a defense no matter how many you score, you still gonna concede more
That's why City, Chelsea and Arsenal failed to mount a challenge this season
Kinda think its the opposite. Attack usually wins tournaments especially if its a two leg game. Defence usually wins the league
@@ramavandika6646 pep has 2 UCLs tho
@@anubhav111196 oh my bad, miscounted his trophies in Barca
@@sbongadlamini388 Chelsea's attack is almost as bad as their defense. They have problem scoring since 2020.
"Skrtel evolved to Van Dijk" 🤣
Chelsea's record of 15 goals conceded in 04/05 will never be broken, that's up there with the Arsenal Invincibles achievement
Great vid! Love the graphic for ‘goals scored’ had a picture of Lacazette who hasn’t scored in 13 appearances! Trolling!
As a Japanese I love that Maya Yoshida showed up as a face of Saints' defensive performance in 14-15, and the Tifo's version of GameBoy!! Is there a merch available like that haha
Absolutely ! Being secure at the back opens up a lot of possibilities for the team
For league titles balance is the key. Finding the correct synergy between attack and defence. You cannot defend for 38 games and win titles you have to win games. Especially since the award of points were changed from 2 for a win to 3. In international tournaments like world cup it is necessary to have a stronger defence than attack because you might only play 7 games if so much. So mistakes are critical.
"God gave us grass to play football"----Brian Clough
So many people on youtube misunderstood the idea of "attack / offense wins games, defense wins championships"
The true idea behind this concept is that it is far easier to win championships with below average offense and best defense than best offense and below average defense.
Hence, the correct way to analyze this concept is to look at all championship teams in the past and see their ranking in goals and ranking in goal conceded. Then find the worst offensive team that won the championship and the worst defensive team that won the championship. In almost all sports and all leagues, the lowest ranked offensive team to win championship is ranked much lower in offense than in defense.
4:24 at the table of Liverpool's goalkeepers the last two rows should be from 2019/20, right?
Yeah. Looks like a mistake
Would be interesting (but probably more complex) to do a similar analysis for knockout competitions. The Champions League and Europa League probably don't reveal as much because of two-leg ties, but certainly there are examples of strong defensive teams being successful in that format (although more recently the CL winner has usually been an attacking powerhouse).
Yes, best example is Liverpool, I remember when they would score a lot, but also conceded a lot goals as well, once they sured up their defence they won a CL and now have won the premier league.
As a basketball coach I think people misunderstand the defense wins championships. It's not about having the lowest scoring defense, that can result from just holding the ball on offense. Having a great defense allows you to be more offensive knowing you're secure at the back. You may not give up the the fewest goals but it allows you to be more effective going forward and as a team as a whole. It has a holistic impact.
Nothing is more important than defence. That's why I rate defenders more than anyone. I hate players like griezmann and pogba, who like to cause so many noises regarding transfers, and try to be a superstar in everything.
The best one is Chelsea 2004/05 they conceded only 15 goals in the epl on there way to winning the league still a record to this day, never gonna be broken anytime soon
All thanks to Mourinho the genius. Idk why he recieves a lot of hate
Liverpool in 1978-79 conceded 16 goals in 42 games, a better defence than Chelsea.
AIK Fotboll won the 1998 Swedish Allsvenskan despite scoring just 25 goals in 26 games. All other 14 teams in the league outscored them that season, including Osters IF, who finished stone cold bottom. AIK only conceded 15 times, though; almost half as many as the next best defensive side that year, Helsinborgs IF (28 conceded). Love that story.
In NFL they say: "defence win championships"
They do, but even that looks past its prime now - the rule changes have made it so, the league is now dominated by big offenses and big plays
@@BenHutchinson92 Eh no this isn't really true. NFL teams have just learned to exploit far out spacing and modular routes/play calls. Also, most years, defense did win the championship (Pats, Hawks, Ravens, Broncos)
@@nathanshlap you're right defense did win championships, i think thats changing though
Nathan Shlapobersky Mahome’s offense definitely won the game last season, but wouldn’t have happened if they didn’t shut out the 49ers in the 4th. What I’m trying to say is, Aaron Rodgers would have had a few rings by now if he had a decent defense
@@nathanshlap what about the Eagles?
I don't follow the NFL btw
Skrtel evolved into van djik was the most amazing thing I saw today! I feel like going and playing pokemon on an emulator now since there's rains and corona outside
don’t know why companies are making emulators illegal when they’re unwilling to sell copies of their games & consoles online.
liverpool in 2013/2014 had the best attack but didn't win the league due to their defense so yeah defence does win you titles
That was a season of margins, literally an incorrect call in December was all that separated the two sides
@@bri1085 that offside is a reason VAR is a godsend. I was so frustrated i could see sterling was onside in real time easily. Having to play the teams that finished 1st and 3rd in the space of 3 days probably didn't help either.
@@joebarnes100 Even that Chelsea game had dodgy officiating
Um, what? You used one example. I could easily counter with Inter Milan of the 09-10 season. Great offence. Okay defences and Inter won the league.
Also, Liverpool of 05-06. 25 goals conceeded all season, 3rd place.
Appreciate the new graphics - and the content as always!
The more clips i watch the better they get. Brilliant. Love your videos
I remember watching one of your videos about how football teams playing home games have an advantage and perform better due them simply playing at home and the confidence they gain. And also the fans adding an extra boost to the team.
Would be nice to have a follow up of that video since footballs back on, but without any fans.
Do teams still have an advantage without the home fans?
Skrtel evolving into Van Dijk was simply brilliant! 👏🏻
Great video Tifo. Insightful.
Tifoboy! I love that they give us reasons to watch the video instead of passively listen.
this aged so well
I'm still waiting for my Skrtel to evolve in FIFA...
"Yes"
-Chelsea Fan
Sad what i just see last night🤦
@@mmsutsubox "Attack wins the game"
Approved by 2012 UCL Title
I'm finding from this video and comments section that Martin Skrtel is criminally underrated. A wall at the back for Liverpool, he was a solid centre half at Anfield for the best part of ten years. Some respect on his name please. Also, though it's cool n all to hate on Lovren, he's actually a very good centre back. If he had a little humility, we could all agree on that.
The big surprise is Chelsea 16/17 weren't the best in any of the three categories. They won 30 out of 38 matches, finishing with 93 points! That was a 'great' side imo and Conte's use of a back three made it popular in England again.
A solid defence provide teams the platform to go out attack. Looking at the statistics alone only gives you part of the bigger picture
I saw another video on this. DW Football I think.
But overall offense and scoring points is more important. Defense just helps tho
Totally agree.
Italy 2006 -Fabio Cannavaro and Marco Materazzi
Spain 2010 - Puyol, Ramos, Pique
Germany 2014 - Hummels, Lahm, Boateng and Mertesacker.
France 2018 - Umtiti and Varane
Pretty good analysis, but i think its different for champions league where Defence is far more valuable. I would like to see an analysis on that.
I think you could add this variable into consideration, how those "defensive teams" scores their goal, is it Counter-attack? Forcing opponent mistakes from their build up (technically it's also a counter attack)?? Set piece? Open Play?
But it'll takes hour and hours also massive efforts to examine...
When Leicester won in 2016 and Chelsea the following year, they had Kante in the team. He also won the World Cup that summer. Man City were calamitous with Claudio Bravo in goal and before they signed Laporte and Ederson.
You could argue his injury was the biggest blow to their season. Same with the sigining of VVD - they are undoubtedly the MVPs at their clubs.
Sir Alex Ferguson also said the biggest mistake he ever made as a manager was selling Jaap Stam. Not to mention Zidane and his infamous quote when they sold Makelele and signed Beckham.
It’s not necessarily about goals scored and conceded, it’s more about the quality of player in defence is more important than the quality of player in attack
Attack little girls, defend your title- Adam Johnson
A look into 1982 Legendary Brazilian team gives us the answer that indeed defense wins you titles.
Can you prepare the same concept but for La Liga?
Loved the Pokemon reference and the evolution of Skrtel into Van Dijk 😂
This is why I love Sir Alex's quote. I reckon in truth he meant that in order to win titles you cannot just have good attack (which in any sport attacking plays are more interesting for people) but you need a formidable defence. Attack wins you games and winning games could lead to a title but without a proper defence you might end up losing the title on a goal difference like Sir Alex himself did in 2012.
You should do video about goals, defense and top 4, my guess it will be overwhelmingly about offense and goals scored.
I think that you overthinking what Ferguson said, where he was 100% right btw. Or put it simply, the part about great defence and titles can't be measured by numbers. It doesn't work that way, because it's very situational.
At 1:09, the third category isn’t actually meaningful. If you are the highest scoring team and the team with the lowest amount conceded, you automatically have the best goal difference. All 3 don’t have to be met, only 2.
In the case of these 6 teams, Yes. But there can be a team which doesn't have either most goals scored or least conceded, but still has the highest GD
it absolutely does. seen it over and over and over in every sport. if you want to win you must first make sure you wont lose.
Your SKRTL has been upgraded. Classic
May there are a little misunderstanding about that quote.
Sir Alex said "Attack wins you game,Defense wins you title".That doesn't mean you might have a best defense and Zero attack.He said attack wins you game.And that wins will get you to the final of any competition and without winning a match you can't reach there.It's all about 49%-51% combination which was the actual meaning of Sir Alexs quote.It's like Attack - 49%,Defense - 51%.
Without good defense you can't win a trophy easily and also without good attack you can't win games and you can't reach into the final.
5:06 i think you wrote 2019/2020 as 2018/19
Not sure if you've done this already, but could you do a video analyzing the offensive boost, if any, of "3 points for a win" compared to 2?
These videos are extremely satisfying to watch
It is hypothetically possible to lose a game scoring 10 goals. It is 100% impossible to lose a game conceding 0 goals.
This is a superb breakdown of this topic, Tifo Football is the hub for awesome football information and analysis.
Why didn’t you mention Spurs in the 16/17 season? Most goals scored, least conceded and as a result the best goal difference.
I think the reality is that you need both. Maybe a team leak goals here and there but score alot etc but its been a while since I seen a team win a big title with what I'd call a bad defence or a bad attack.
What a great video! Keep it up!
Loved the skrtel into van dijk bit! Brilliant!😂😂😂😂
lol@ Bloortech 5:15
We see you Seb.
If you rank teams by defence it will correlate very closely with actual league positions. Try it for yourself.
When you do it for goals scored, teams are all over the place. Try it with any league table.
So basically, be good at winning, and also be good at not losing. Got it.
*boots up Football Manager*
5:30 is a bit harsh on Skrtel. Worse defensively when he didn’t play during his time at club. Particularly after Carraghers departure.
Skrtel evolving LOL! Great vid, thanks!
Whoever came up with Skrtel evolving into van Dijk gameboy graphic needs to become the CEO of your organisation
Always love seeing football from data and analytics perspective, great content as always indeed
I don't know but I feel like defense in Football and winning championships with a dominant defense is less noticeable. Like in Basketball and American Football defense is so important and I've seen great defenses dominate games more often.
I want a Tifoboy now. Imagine a machine purely for football games
The years are wrong at 4:20 on the white board. Should be 19/20 for Alisson and Adrian
You love Skrtel don't you haha whenever old Liverpool is mentioned he appears
. . . Skrtl is evolving!
Haha the Pokemon reference was highly unexpected 😅
Does Defence wins you titles?
Italy 2006: " Hold our Trophy"
Nice video, worry considering the improved/added leadership and distribution of players such as Van Dijk and Alisson?
The common wisdom of defence winning championships is more obvious and pronounced in sports where scoring is more frequent in general, and draws are less common.
In those sports, reducing the number of scoring events on your side is more beneficial as it increases the chance of a win. But if the average match has 2.5 goals, and you reduce the number your side concedes by 0.5 per game, your chances of winning aren't so different, you're just making it harder for your side to lose. So the lower incidence rate of scoring in football means that generally, better defending is more useful for avoiding defeat than actually winning (which the video points out) because you cannot win without scoring goals.
You can score 4+ Goals and still lose but when you keep a clean sheet you come out with atleast a point
You could also make an opposite argument to that. If you don't score you can only ever come out with 1 point in a best case scenario, if you score you can come out with 3 points in a best case scenario.
Lets just agree. Both are important.😆
If you don't conceive you don't lose.
Ben M yea but that’s how teams get their points like Newcastle, palace and Burnley they are so well run defensively and love to score off corners and counter attacks
@@marpagapal3312 If you don't score you don't win. Don't forget the football points system literally rewards attacking football, scoring goals can net you 3x the amount of points as not conceding does.
Defence is so underrated in football, just look at how much a striker sells for vs how much a defender sells for.
Harry maguire
thats because offense is more important since its a SCORING game, dummie.
In the video it highlights its better to be an offensive team than defensive, as wins are far superior to draws. Naturally attacking players will be valued more.
Dragonaut111 they also stressed that a good defence give you the stability to be better in attack. Defence is more important the fact that Van Dijk and Alisson came in and changed Liverpool into a champions league and premier league winning side cannot be overlooked.
That's not so true anymore.
Trainers, keepers and defenders gain importance every year.
Interesting. What about if you compare 1st to 2nd and see how often the team that wins had a better defense than the runner-up?
"Does defense win titles?"
Bayern: Sorry, what was that you were saying? I was busy scoring the 5th goal.
Basically, in football, it's not about having the best attack or defense. It's about being the team that keeps the dropped points to a minimum and can steal a few wins against teams that are dead even against them. You need a great attack to ensure your dropped points (losses or draws against teams of lower stature, etc) to a minimum by hammering them, while having a good defense to steal those same points from teams who are dead even or just better than you. Simple as. HOWEVER, you have to also remember that you can get 1 point from a 0-0 draw and 0 points from a 3-4 loss.
Every team that wins a title has at least a decent defence ,but not always a world class attack.Real Madrid 2016-2018 defence was good enough but not amazing,they were much better in attack.If a team is extremely good in attack they don’t need a world class defence.
It's both...you need to keep goals out as well as score them to win games. But the best form of defence is attack
"Your Skrtel is evolving"
😂😂😂
You need good defense and offense to win.
You must prevent goals from being scored.
You must also score goals.
But overall, defense is more important, because you clog up your 1/3, and then launch a quick counter attack and you only need one or two fast strikers to score a quick goal on the counter.
But, if you have a weak defense, even with a good offense, it is going to be hard to win; the opponent will go through you like swiss cheese.