EP-133 VS SP-404sx : the choice is easier than you think.
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Used EP-133 Prices - bit.ly/4dq1j55
Used SP Prices - bit.ly/44ur7sI
The answer is easier than you might think! One is a groove box and the other is a wilder sampler mangler that can also be a groove box at times! TL:DR is you want to make beats quickly and straight forwardly, get the EP. If you want a sampler mangler and FX processing unit get the SP!
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00:00 What we're talking about
00:30 Answering it the easy way
01:29 Perfect Circuit Used Gear
01:47 Who is the SP-404sx for
02:10 Who is the EP-133 for?
02:57 Workflow Hierarchy - This is what matters
05:58 Some final pros and cons of both
09:16 The TL:DR section
09:38 This is super important to think about.
09:49 This is where the SP sucks compared to the EP-133
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Find some decent deals on used prices of the SP-404SX, A, and MKII here! 👉🏼bit.ly/44ur7sI
Or if you're looking at the EP-133 👉🏼 bit.ly/4dq1j55 -- You thinking about either machine or you already got your chosen machine?
Thanks again to Perfect Circuit for sponsoring the video🤘🏼
I do 3d art and just got an sp404 mk2 and it's absurd button combos feel like candy to my brain. Modeling software has some of the most insane and perplexing hotkeys and getting a music device that’s like that feels like home to me rn
My EP-133 it's a best groovebox in the most strict sense: It's a literal music sketch pad. I can get out the basic concept of whats rolling in my head so quickly out and running on the K.O.II. Then after hearing it, if I think it has some legs, then I can actually start working on it with my Tracker. If you want one device to do both? go with SP-404SX, but if you already have a true song-making setup and just need something to quickly get ideas out? EP-133 Hand down.
I have not found a device, besides my OP-1 Field, that I just click with like the KOII.
One thing that keeps me coming back to TE is how compact and portable their gear is. With a lot of gear it always feels a bit too bulky to bring with me and play with on the road.
Being able to fit the OP-1, OPZ, EP-133, and TX-6 into basically the same overall volume as the SP404 is a really hidden value of their products.
very true, I had my EP-133 hanging in its bag on my shoulder for like 3 hours and completely forgot that I had a musical device on me. its super lightweight but not in a bad way
The fact that a 15 year old device can even give it a run says loads - for its capabilities, or lack of capabilities of the KO. Either way, if it inspires you, go for. For me personally, 404mk2 is just a joy - even though the SP workflow is wack.
This is an amazing comment. It shows that you recognize what the device can do for you even though it's a pain to use. I love that! That's a similar feeling to the octatrack or the older MPCs they're slow, and clunky to sometimes do simple things but there's something special about them
So much of this is changed by Mk2. If you approach Mk2 the same as SX then they appear to have same workflow, but the Mk2 workflow is way different if you come at it new. And has 32 note poly and can play chromatically so piano playing is possible. But the 404 is still less immediate and tougher to learn.
Mk2 wins hands down. I played with both and ended up selling all my pocket operators and went for the MK2.
The measure count from the latest update is what I've been waiting for since the 202. Less tedious editing for sure
Plus it's built like a tank
what is measure edit
@daniel_dumile you can now set how many bars to record on a pad. My mk2 is clocked from my other gear. I can just set the measure count and have peferct loops.
Can't shake the feeling that the EP-133 looks like an old school calculator for the old school sampling space to slip by us.
2:52 Quote of the year
I think, you touched on the most obvious but at the same time the most difficult to answer questions: what do I think I am going to use my tool for at the moment and what do I imagine where I want to go from here? Sure, GAS is a thing, for sure. But when it comes to a actually use the tools one has acquired and later on make/create stuff on them/with then, that can be quite a confusing journey - sometimes filled with regrets and dust collectors, but sometimes (when certain ideas and the appearance of a certain tool meet at the same and a creative time) one gets lucky: lots of ideas, right tools at hand and lots of fun for days and weeks to come.
That said: thanks for the video, Ricky, it did in deed help me … in a way. Cheers! 😊
GU! thank you for the kind words, its a battle and sometimes an embarrassment wondering if we made the right choice or not. Eitherway looking to the fun side of things and just creating is the best thing we can do haha
@@RickyTinez Those are very wise words, Ricky! In the end, like @getjervis once put it (in a video over at Thomann Synthesizers): you have to use it to make music. So, just start (and keep!) creating, messing with ideas and tools to see what might happen along the way, staying open to be surprised … and remember to have fun, indeed. - Thank you, Ricky!
Ricky "The Axe" Tinez dropping knowledge bombs!!!
When can we get that “knife vs chainsaw for slicing strawberries” vid bro?
🔪🍓🪚
hahaha!
Great video. Thank you.
You can change the system settings so next scene you pick starts at the end of the current one playing on the ep 133
I'd love to see a comparison between the SP-404 mk2 and the 1010 Blackbox!
Ya, I have the BB and it's why I'm scoping out a new sampler. If you decide on the BB you have to get a Launchpad or some controller like it because that screen is for the birds. And even with the controller, you need to dig into that menu anyway. Cool thing about 1010 is the devs are constantly upgrading it. It does something new every 6 months or so.
I'm relatively new to the SPs. I got the 404Mk2 recently, and haven't upgraded the firmware to 4.04 yet. But I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly I picked up finding my way around it, and feeling comfortable with the workflow.
That said, I do worry that if I'm away from it for a couple of weeks, I'll have to spend time getting to know it again.
After seeing what is used to chop strawberries, I’m watching how I step here in the comments.
I have an SP404A. Very similar to the SX. I'm not very good with it as I work mainly with DAWs, but it has some interesting features. One of the stand-out features is the mic input, which can also be routed through the effects, which presents a lot of options for live vocal performances. I haven't done any live stuff, but am planning to, and the SP404 seems like a great device for adding live loops on the fly.
Yep. Changing scenes live can be set to happen at the end of the playing bar in system settings.
I'm currently waiting for that firmware update for the K.O.ii to see if we get -
1. sampling whilst playing (adding vocals for example - you need to hear the track for timing)
2. re sampling
3. save/load individual projects
Or you can go for a SP? 😊
@@daijotogashi i already have an sp-404mkii and an MPC one.
@@cresshead wow good for you! Why waiting if you already have everything?
@@daijotogashi waiting for the 1 and 2 as that's my workflow.
Honestly as a Main MPC user now. My ep is just used for sampling purposes . I still drum on it because I love the computer keyboard pads but that’s from time to time. So my MP is basically my ep but on crack and steroids…. That’s me tho idk . Like you said it’s your workflow. Everybody works different🤷🏽♂️
Great to see the SX out. I can not get rid of mine… I even bought a second “broken” one for spare parts… 😬
Dear Teenage Engineering,
please give us a new update on the ep 133.
I got a love/hate relationship with it, so i would appreciate it if you make me enjoy this machine a little bit more.
Nice review Ricky. Maybe more sampler comparisons as an idea?
Heads up, they said the other day they have been working on a new product but are working on the new update as well so hopefully soon.. they have promised resampling and who knows what else?
thanks Tobi! What would you want in the update if they made one? Also not a bad idea on the videos. Their use cases can be super specific at times :)
@@RickyTinez Another interesting comparison would be the EP-133 vs Novation Circuit Tracks, since I believe they have a lot of overlap in terms of features.
this video doesnt make sense if i have a sx i dont make that comparison, if i dont have either, i compare the EP to the 404 mk2. The argument that sx is similar to mk2 is bs, since mk2 has tons of extra features over the sx
What I'm hearing is to keep using what works for me, and get stoked for the new kaosspad!
Thanks Ricky do you notice a big difference in sound quality? and what about exporting tracks and integration with DAWs. I love the velocity sensitive pads on the EP-133 and the quick workflow - but interested in the Sp-404 too.
4:11 ..this made me LOL "I'LL SWITCH WHEN I'MMMM READY!!!"
hahaha exactly
Damn, a video right in time. I am hunting for a groovebox type machine to just play around with sequencer music and I am not yet decided on EP-133 (well, actually after this video I am a bit). What do you think about Novation Circuit Tracks compared to these two?
I was looking to get an EP at the beginning of the year when they came out.
Looked at the 404 again and ordered that on the back of the memory alone.
When is the food prep demo for strawberry prep using the hatchet?
🤣
Now, could you make this a series and add Circuit Rhythm to the mix? :D
CR is actually pretty good! Kind of has the good features from every device but doesn’t really excel at any of them. Most intuitive workflow of any of them.
@@sneaky_general I agree with Sneaky, the CR is an AWESOME device but it I suffer from the same situation with most groove boxes with it. the "now what" phase where I feel like I hit its limits, or I want to take it to the whole studio and its a bit of a pain to get it into a DAW or something.
Big thanks for this…. Was thinking about the 404… but I’ll stick with my MPC :D
Great video. Would be nice to add the rhythm into the mix.. I ended up buying the KO
The sp404mk2 just got a recent update- my favorite has been the looper!
Thanks, Ricky, this video came literally at the right time, as I got a sp404.2 just yesterday. And if you're used to Akai/Elektron/even other Roland stuff, it's not intuitive. A "weird tricky machine". Let's see if the SP and me will be able to share a deep relationship...
I’m tired of all these SP-404 vs EP-133 comments. Been seeing them since the EP first came out. People act like it’s a life or death situation and they have to choose one when you can buy both for different reasons. And if it’s a budget issue, most say “save a little extra and get an SP 404 instead of the EP”. Well wouldn’t the same logic apply if you get an SP and can still save and get an EP later on down the line? You don’t have to be tied down to one piece of portable gear your whole life. I have an MPC One along with the KO 2 and that’s sufficient for MY needs. I don’t understand what the big deal is, other than people wanting to hate just to hate cuz they have nothing else to do.
I just want to know how you did that sticker cutout around the buttons. The exact method.
I got the mk2 and the ko2, and I feel the mk2 is convoluted, too much crammed into one device without a great way to work with it all.
The KO2 has the opposite issue, a great and fast workflow and well thought out device lacking just a few key functions that could make it the best at its price point.
Resampling, scene chaining and downsampling/lo-fi mode/conversion is all it needs to be an absolute tiny beast imo.
The underdog would be the new SONICWARE Lofi-12 XT. The OS and functionality is far more refined and complete compared to the KO. Functionality wise its up there with the SP
Been interested in the PioneerDJ DJS1000 lately. Kinda reminds me of a mixture of Digitakt, Maschine and CDJ.
sp404 + ipad is the ultimate.
I think what hasn’t been said here is that SP is way to go for Hip-Hop, Trance and other people who think in samples. EP is more for people who think in notes, more conservative synth audience who also wants to try sampling. I don’t have that vision that is shown in the SP music making videos but I have a traditional composer vision so I chose the KO2.
I was seeing complaints when the to ko came out, have these issues all been addressed? What issues are still out there, I don't want to buy if there is some permanent error involved. Tia
If I wanted to make vaporwave and don’t have any experience with samplers, would the workflow of the 404 Mk1 be good or go with something from like Akai or Elektron, or something else? I’m hoping to pull samples from tapes and use mono synths + drum machines along with pedals for FX. I struggle with things that have a lot of menu diving.
The SP404 mk1’s are pretty straight forward if you don’t want to menu dive. They don’t have a true pitch shift, so you might want to take that into consideration. The current MPC’s are pretty simple to use, and you can get a used MPC One for a decent price. The Elektron gear does require a bit of menu diving and key combinations to remember, especially the Octatrack.
@@anthonyb.2983 thanks. Interesting about the pitch shift, I’ll have to think about that. I tentatively had my eye on the MPC One but figured I’d ask around a bit to see what other people are doing. I appreciate your input very much!
I haven't bought either device. But I watched 20 minutes of the Roland tutorial video and felt like I already knew how to use every function of the device. One view of the EP-133 tutorial and I was completely confused.
Ok, but what’s about sound? Is 133 one more plastic toy beat like other TE devices?
Pretty much CD quality on both devices (EP-133 is slightly better than CD). TE often looks like toy, but sounds very good.
Why between the 404sx and not the 404mk2? Neat video though!
Price points in the used market
Very well said! Now can you do the same on the EP and Novation Circuit Tracks or even Digitakt? I believe they compare better than to the 404 🙂 Peace!
I think the Novation Circuit Rhythm might be the closer competitor, but either Circuits would be a interesting comparison given they are around the same pricepoint
@@Wrzlprnft True!
2:26 "On The SP404 SX.. There is NO PLAY BUTTON." The 404 device itself is great! But Then and now, I just can't imagine why the 404 UI was designed in the convoluted way it was, when much easier workflows exist, including on other Roland devices! Like the TR and RC. 5:28 I was also using it for playing back stems I had made in Ableton, but I would have liked the ability to more easily "just make a track" on it.
I own a Ep . And learning was so fun. But it’s limitations were exhausting. I got gifted an MPCone+ by my fiancé who noticed I would get pissed at the machine😂. And I mean you could only have so many stereo tracks on the Ep before it started taking out the first stereo tracks you imputed by order. It also likes to play Ghost notes when done as well. The 64mb is a little too underwhelming after a bit. The limitations were messing up my creativity. As for the 404 never had one, but I can clearly see it does not have a memory issue, plus I see homies make bangers on theirs. All in all if your wanting to purchase a sampler even though I love my ep. I’d go with the 404 , it has to be MK11 . You’ll get more your moneys worth….. or you could go with MPC and skip all that lmao 🗿🤦🏽♂️. Jk baby steps guys
TE makes overpriced toys. I mean, we all know the Roland sp 404 mk2 runs laps around this Ko133 so let alone a MPC since thats top of the food chain.
@@TheChameleon2008 they do overprice the fuck out of them. And for 300$ with 64mb what are we in the fucking 80’s?. I made a dumb purchase but I don’t regret it, should of got the 404mk11 tho 🤦🏽♂️. And the MpC was added as a joke mate!
I think the SP404 MkII is a great option if you want the portable sampler, but the MPC series is the king for a reason.
This is easy, LoFi-12 XT ;) Just got one. It’s hella fun. It has the mono sampling and menu shallowness (limited menu diving) of the OG Digitakt, the battery power, effects, storage and voices of the OG 404, the record and play button and portability of the EP, and the 12 bit sound of old MPC’s. It’s simple, fun, and direct.
But it isn’t magical, perfect, or for what everyone want’s for their sound.
I use the KO 2 and run it into my sp 404 to create songs they really complement each other for what the other one lacks with the better sequencer of the KO2 and the Better Audio manipulation and effects of the Sp404 then just perform using the sp404A and run it through the KO 2 to play chromatic samples, might seem a bit convoluted and I could just get an Mpc but the fact that they are both battery powered that lasts way longer then an SP 404MK2 and the MPC is a huge win for me who performs on the streets and doesn’t want to carry a huge power pack with me
The SP Def is a vibe, but the fun had with the EP133 is on a whole new level. This is a fact.
I think once TE adds resampling and recordable performance FX the Ep-133 KO II gonna be a classic. Very good workflow, long lasting battery life, and such a GOOD sound.
True. The problem with TE is they have a bizarre design philosophy sometimes. It's like you think, "This would be so cool if only they put this totally overlooked feature in it," and they say, "Well, we could do that, but we're not going to - because armadillos." They get frustrating sometimes.
@@johnnymidnight2982 yeah but thats not the case here. The KO II not even using its second core ATM. Plenty of headroom for New features.
@@hadrien5697 I'm aware that they have the space for updates, and I am sure they will, I just hope it does introduce pretty important features like resampling.
“I’ve got better tools.” 😂😂😂
Bro pulled out the hatchet 🤣😂🤣
Total hatchet job😜
With the new Sonicware LoFi-12 XT out the choice is even easier
What about the Sonicware lofi 12 xt
Yeah, iTunes still exists and still syncs iPods! I’ll be using my iPod 5.5 to store my samples and sample into my sp404 MII.
Even easier choice for me! I own a 404SX and can afford nothing else! 😄
It's a pain indeed to make a full song with but whadya gonna do 🤷♂
Honestly I had the very same question ngl 😂
3:54 I have not tested but latest update supposedly addresses this...
Humm… I really enjoy most of your videos, but I don’t know about this comparison, sorry. Why the SX and not the MK2…? Or in that case, why the KOII and not the PO…? The price difference between the SX and MK2 is also relatively low (on the second hand market). And yes, the SP really needs time to get used to… if you want to memorize ALL shortcuts. If you don’t take the time to train your muscle memory it sucks, period. But when you simply use its basic features (most of them which are printed onto the front of the device) it’s kinda straightforward. Maybe the KO is a bit easier to get started, but then again, the latest SP is so much more capable when it comes to sampling, FX, resampling, number of samples, sample time, sample management, note polyphony… and the list goes on and on. In my opinion the thing where the #SP404mk2 and KOII really really differ in terms of workflow is layering sequences. Where the SP offers realtime and TR-style step-sequencing, it cannot layer multiple MIDI sequences. For that you need to bounce-down a sequence to a sampled loop. After that you can layer multiple loops… also one-shots, which is great! On the KO you can layer up to 4 MIDI sequences, which makes experimenting by stacking melodic or rhythmic elements a bit easier. This is the one thing #Roland could (or maybe should…?!) add to sequencer of the SP: recording and stacking up to 16 patterns, instead of adding or editing all notes within one single pattern at a time. And, when it comes to user interface design TE did a better job (also by looking at other devices). I don’t know who’s in charge of that part at Roland, but it seems like they get a bonus every time a new shortcut is added. For instance the way the’ve recently implemented the new ‘looper’ feature… my goodness! It would have been so much easier to add an option to the existing sample menu AND workflow: ‘loop after sampling’. But no, someone must have said: let’s make it a separate menu so we can add just another shortcut to activate it. Makes me think of that cartoon where an IT consultant designs a tree swing for a customer. It’s these kind of extras / additional features and their shortcuts that muddied or overcomplicated the standard SP workflow.
Because the SP-404sx is legacy, only available on the second hand market, and already has a successor for years, using it for comparison makes less sense IMO.
Everyone knows the 404 has it's quirks and a unique workflow and that's the reason why many people love it. To use an older model then use the fact that it's an older model with less features as a negative point seems odd. I appreciate the mk2 costs more but it does so much more than the SX albeit with a ton of menu diving. Personally I'm not much of a fan of TE gear. To me it seems either too much like a toy or it's too expensive and they rarely hit the sweet spot on this other than maybe the KO.
SP-404 shines when you own 2...then they become even simpler...more the better!
For the price of a pizza you can have an ultra portable sampler, equipped with a microphone, several gigabytes of memory, great connectivity with Bluetooth and even wifi 🤯. It weighs no more than 400 grams, polymorphic once connected to your USB midi controller you can even have the same pads as an MPC💣Wow 💥💥💥
When in doubt, it is better to buy Koala Sampler, an extremely competitive price considering the possibilities offered. The best part is that Koala sampler is constantly evolving.
If you don't care about the hype and what you're looking for is a great sampler, go for it!
*SP for life*
I still don't get why more samplers/grooveboxes don't stream from SD or allow way more sampling, most are still so limited for sample time. It seems crazy that the 404 is still pretty much standing alone as the one tool which does this so much better than anything else. I'm holding out for an Electribe 3 that has way more sampling, as I find the Electribe 2 the most immediate for creating songs (I haven't tried everything, but have tried plenty - 404ii, MPC One, MV1, Circuits, Mc101 and others) and it's undefeated for it's ability to immediately switch between songs.
yeah after buying the KOII. Its a pretty good drum machine. but thats about it. wasnt very much fun after that and i have way better drum machines so it now sits collecting dust. I should try and sell it really.
octatrack still my first choice.
How about Koala plus a cheap midi pad controller?
TIL the SP doesn't have a play button! Shout out to Dibiase!
One is a sampler the other is a groovebox.
Forget about the SX tho. MkII is the only way.
speeeeeee
I have come to solve this whole problem:
THE ZOOM RYTHMTRAK AR-48. SONG MODE, UNQUANTISABLE MIDI, 12 STEREO VOICES 64 STEPS, ONBOARD SAMPLING, SD CARD. COPYING IS EASY, FULL FX SECTION, ON FACE RESAMPLE.
You know its true my children! you know it in your heart. Bow down to the rainbow tambourine as our one true god!
Haha I was one of the people who asked this question. I finally bought EP133 last week and I totally agree with your points in this video. They are 2 very different machines with very different workflows and strength and weaknesses. Right now I use EP133 to compose and SP404SX for adding effects after the composition is done.
It definitely worth getting EP133 if you are still debating. I got my EP133 on Friday and spent the whole weekend playing with it and made 3 or 4 tracks by the end of the weekend. It's a bit funny but many times I found myself smiling at the machine :)
If you have no music-making experience and just have a curiosity for making music with such devices, get the ep-133. It’s cheaper and has a lower learning curve than the 404sx. The 404sx will make no sense to you and you will more than likely end up returning it or it will gather dust at home. Or, you can just get Koala on your iPad or iPhone and call it a day. There, that’s all you need to know. Move on.
To all my freestylers i would highly suggest the KO 2. If you want metro boomin style production you better with an MPC, but if you are trying to make beats for bar dropping, the KO allows you to make beats that help you shine, not carry you.
I love your channel but saying the 404-SX and the 404-MKii are similar is absolutely silly and borderline disingenuous. That's like comparing a PO-33 with a KOii. See what I'm saying? You're comparing the KOii with a 19 year old sampler. The KOii vs 404MKii is a totally different conversation. This is just a head scratcher of a video.
Last!!
Now I am last.
whatever, you know why the ep133 is better? because people buys it to make beats and sketch ideas and not just effects.
the sp404 its a very nice effects processor, thats it. nobody uses it to make actual beats because its a pain in the ass. most of producers just make a beat in a daw or any other groovebox, then move it to the sp and apply all the cool fx and performance tools.
i repeat NOBODY USES IT TO MAKE ACTUAL BEATS, CHOP SAMPLES, FULL SONGS OR EVEN SAMPLE STUFF.
the ep133 is a new device, with a whole life of updates and fixes on its way. the sp404 is dead, ancient tech.
tbh roland should sell a box with just the 404 fxs, no pads, no nothing, just the fx.
First! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
🥱
Being a synthfluencer must be so fucking exhausting.
Soul sucking.
sold my sp404sx , i sleep better
Get digitakt 2
lol
RT works for Elektron. He has one, I'm sure.
He’s addressed it; he has been using the Digitakt 2 since before it released because he works for Elektron but doesn’t want to review it because he would be biased.
ep-133 to me is TOTAL NON SENSE make me want to puke only by watching at it and it has anemic timbre!
tho the 404 mk2 is DOPE in every way (404 mk2 is very Ricky u should check one)
EP-133 is a toy… 1 year toy. SP 404 is a great instrument. I don’t like the plastic of EP is made of. Really bad plastic.
Sp-404sx: "you know... I was popular once"
Ep-133: "oh, word? Cool story bro"
*Sp-404mk2 walks in the room*
404Mk2: "what up guys! Whats going on?
404sx & ep-133: nothing sir. 🫡
😂🤣
got it