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Visiting Our Friends at BluePrint Engines! The Factory Has Changed A LOT SINCE 2021!

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  • Опубліковано 15 чер 2023
  • Use code STAPLETON120 to get $120 off across your first 4 boxes of Good Chop at bit.ly/40JWAEo
    Most of you probably remember our main factory tour video at BluePrint Engines from January 2021. Well now in 2023 the factory has lots of new machinery and an all new layout inside. Lets check it out with our OG tour guide Josh Saldivar!
    MAIN CHANNEL @Stapleton42
    Channel Merchandise: stapletonautoworks.com
    Advertising Inquiries: stapleton42extra@gmail.com

КОМЕНТАРІ • 115

  • @bennyhelgeson401
    @bennyhelgeson401 Рік тому +29

    $7 million is proof they believe internal combustion engines are not dinosaurs. I am astounded the number of engines go out their door. After your 1st visit to Blue Print I was impressed enough to order their 383 with approximately 440 HP. I will be running the engine through its paces this summer. Thanks Mitchell and Logan

  • @Titan-uy1qy
    @Titan-uy1qy 2 місяці тому +1

    Amazing absolutely amazing. God bless

  • @marksearcy9708
    @marksearcy9708 Рік тому +5

    Love this video's at least we know for the future, us old school gas engine people have nothing to worry about.😁Looking forward to the machine company video.

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      Have you seen the Rottler video on the main channel yet?

  • @misawajason
    @misawajason Рік тому +5

    Almost forgot how good the first video was. Nice little update. Nice little end to the video also; I've been making a living for the last 19 years working on generators like that V-12 unit. Nothing like doing an oil change where you're emptying a 55 gallon drum and putting a large dent in a second one 🤣

  • @johnmorgan4921
    @johnmorgan4921 Рік тому +4

    A trip to BluePrint is always a good thing! Cheers!!!

  • @MM_in_Havasu
    @MM_in_Havasu Рік тому +3

    Badass! Progress being made there!
    Thank you both for posting this video, it is very interesting! Appreciate it & you!

  • @craigmaverick
    @craigmaverick Рік тому +5

    I looked at getting a blueprint SBF 427 a few years ago but they were still using "seasoned blocks" so I went with a builder that used a Dart block. I'm glad to see them using new aftermarket blocks now, I will definitely look at blueprint for my next build.👍👍

  • @DirtePanda
    @DirtePanda Рік тому +4

    The vertical option does help with the distortion, it's not much but it does give a more consistent result 🤙🐼🤙

  • @rudyhollis6540
    @rudyhollis6540 Рік тому +3

    Cool tour of a badass operation!!!

  • @immanutt4442
    @immanutt4442 Рік тому +2

    Thanks A Mint !!! ... more respect for Blueprint Engines now ... Keep Calm And Do A Burnout (my ol' blueprint tee shirt). The only thing that burnt my clutch was when you put your finger in the hole ... the turbo hole. I mean to say I know you a guy and all and it a natural voluntary response for us however sometimes one must bite the bullet and simply refrain from touching.

  • @TheCrewChief374
    @TheCrewChief374 Рік тому +4

    I agree that regardless of what happens with EVs there will always be internal combustion engines! Especially in automobiles!

    • @RSDX99
      @RSDX99 Рік тому

      NFN but isn't that what Stanley said about the steam engines. There are not many Jay Lenos collecting steam cars. Never say never.

  • @RebeldryversGarage
    @RebeldryversGarage Рік тому +3

    Wish I had known you guys were in town. Would've like to have met you two.

  • @arrowkart4j
    @arrowkart4j Рік тому +2

    Very interesting. Thanks

  • @madcowmark7129
    @madcowmark7129 Рік тому +2

    "Interesting"
    Cheers mate, great video.

  • @davidrfowler6432
    @davidrfowler6432 Рік тому +3

    14:09 , a perfect engine swap for jeep cj7`s and YJ`s , now if they could only increase the crankshaft stroke to at least 4.25 and 4 bolt mains , intake manifolds on the passenger side exhaust manifolds on the driver side

    • @bigbird-xm
      @bigbird-xm 10 місяців тому

      I can't wait! 😋

  • @bornfree3837
    @bornfree3837 Рік тому +1

    When I was a Teenager my Friend Todd Landry had a Balanced and Blueprinted 427 in a 69 Camero he was the Fastest Car in our Area !!!

  • @CamaroThings
    @CamaroThings Рік тому +2

    Need the funds first but seriously the only reason I even knew about Blue Print Engines is because of you. My buddy bought a 427ci for his car and it is still running strong.

  • @c.johnweir182
    @c.johnweir182 Рік тому +1

    This is awesome! Engine building 2.0.

  • @metrickarma
    @metrickarma Рік тому +2

    The Rottler video is something I'm excited to see. I don't know if it would be possible but I think Steve Morris would go along for that. Regardless it's gonna be killer to see!!

  • @jimclarke1108
    @jimclarke1108 Рік тому +1

    Perfect, just what we needed

  • @shawdowsanddust5301
    @shawdowsanddust5301 5 місяців тому +2

    Have a 350 390HP engine being built by Blueprint right now. Dropping in my 1972 Monte Carlo.

    • @user-hr2yd5qi2w
      @user-hr2yd5qi2w День тому

      How is it bro? Thinking about ordering one of those

    • @shawdowsanddust5301
      @shawdowsanddust5301 День тому

      @user-hr2yd5qi2w just now past the 500 mile break in period and it's been outstanding. Runs smooth since day 1 and is as fast as I can dare to take it!

  • @v4yt126
    @v4yt126 Рік тому +1

    great revisit

  • @Shadow0fd3ath24
    @Shadow0fd3ath24 Рік тому +3

    the fact that people are still spending that much on crate engines blows my mind! id never do it but nice to know theyre doing good and that guys can buy a badass engine off the shelf or a whole powertrain even. I like the CVF setups too, they make some awesome acc drives

  • @metrickarma
    @metrickarma Рік тому +2

    Great video!

  • @JohnRoberts71
    @JohnRoberts71 Рік тому +2

    Great content thanks for sharing

  • @waltercobb4675
    @waltercobb4675 Рік тому +1

    Great video ty

  • @KillerGrubwithMarkBagley
    @KillerGrubwithMarkBagley Рік тому +2

    Cool video, going to click on the Good Chop link directly

  • @Sir.VicsMasher
    @Sir.VicsMasher Рік тому +3

    Please bring back the affordable [Power adder ready] short block's.

    • @yamahaguy1732
      @yamahaguy1732 10 місяців тому

      They are keeping prices down just doing what they have to do to stay afloat in this economy.

  • @2slowcoach
    @2slowcoach Рік тому +1

    I clicked hoping to see the half LS and bing bop boop i did thx from Australia.

    • @newtonfirefly3584
      @newtonfirefly3584 Рік тому

      If You search a little, You will locate some basic information, as appeared for me too.
      a. Blue Print produces this 3.6 L 4 cylinder engine for industrial applications via their Origin Division
      b. B.P. also claims they have GM/LS, Ford heads compatible with this engine
      c. cast iron block - rather large, with high power/torque -> 3.6 L = 219.685 c.i. -> perhaps 220 c.i. actually -> typical in larger V-6 engines, some smaller V-8 engines
      d. Origin emanates from Mercruiser, thus also marine applications are seemingly among the uses, perhaps currently.
      e. no mention of others or other improvements as OHC, Hemi, smaller sizes, aluminum blocks

  • @c.johnweir182
    @c.johnweir182 Рік тому +4

    Question???
    Do you think that entire setup would fit in Logan's Mustang?
    That would be so sick!

  • @bigbird-xm
    @bigbird-xm 10 місяців тому

    Merica going to be like Cuba. LOVE MY 632BB

  • @LionsTigersBears
    @LionsTigersBears 6 місяців тому

    Small block 454 is only way to go with 700R4 transmission

  • @darkpitbullotusdpl8767
    @darkpitbullotusdpl8767 6 місяців тому

    Wish I knew you were in Kearney!!

  • @Jeff-io2zn
    @Jeff-io2zn Рік тому +1

    If they don't gave a foundry where do the raw castings come from???

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому +1

      Another foundry. Like most companies who don’t own their own foundry. Edelbrock and Brodix have their own and that’s all I know of

  • @mchristr
    @mchristr Рік тому +2

    Would love to see Blueprint produce new blocks at a price point that forces competitors to up their game. I would buy a big bore Windsor that needed only minimal finish machining.

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому +1

      I believe that is coming. You can now buy bare blocks from them in some cases

  • @larryburwell8550
    @larryburwell8550 11 місяців тому +1

    Great video for sure. ive wondered watching all these motor trend car restoration videos where they get all the crate engines it seems blueprint engines is the place. all those LS motors i see stuffed in these restoration chevys must come from here. what a massive engine shop. holy cow! thanks for the video!! Larry

  • @RearEngineShop
    @RearEngineShop Рік тому +2

    Internal combustion forever!

    • @newtonfirefly3584
      @newtonfirefly3584 Рік тому

      Do You promote ethanol, methanol, hydrogen fuel use with internal combustion too ?

    • @RearEngineShop
      @RearEngineShop Рік тому

      @@newtonfirefly3584 combust it all

  • @LionsTigersBears
    @LionsTigersBears Рік тому +1

    Would like to get that 454 sbc that would be the ideal dream built to fit in. Gbody car and run the power tour USA. Also a happy cruiser.
    Turn key performance with fuel injected by Holley sniper or which ever fuel injection kit. Not Fi Tech. It has too many run ability issues

  • @chrisretired5379
    @chrisretired5379 Рік тому +1

    Wondering if they ship to Alaska ?

  • @chrisragland1106
    @chrisragland1106 10 місяців тому

    still waiting on that 1000HP 632 BBC to come out

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  9 місяців тому

      It can be ordered if you call them but its not on the website

  • @richardharvey8939
    @richardharvey8939 Рік тому +1

    I hope they do a replacement for our 8.1 Vortec. Love y’all’s work.

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      thank you sir! the 632 is a worthy replacement lol

    • @richardharvey8939
      @richardharvey8939 Рік тому

      @@stapleton42extra not sure how it would do with the stock allison. But nice thought.

  • @cammontreuil7509
    @cammontreuil7509 8 місяців тому

    I'd like to work there.

  • @toplesstattoo4301
    @toplesstattoo4301 Місяць тому

    Ls 4 cylinder?

  • @bryansanges6679
    @bryansanges6679 Рік тому +1

    Going for a 2nd shot at high jacking an engine i see. Lol. This is an amazing place.

  • @kevinkaup3485
    @kevinkaup3485 Рік тому +1

    Dang they changed alot

  • @cammontreuil7509
    @cammontreuil7509 8 місяців тому

    I'd like to buy an engine. But I want to assemble it myself.
    Sell them that way for some of us.

  • @matthewnosal6893
    @matthewnosal6893 Рік тому +2

    He hesitated on the answer for where the blocks are made…..🧐

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому +1

      I think different ones come from different foundries

    • @newtonfirefly3584
      @newtonfirefly3584 Рік тому +1

      @@stapleton42extra Exactly Mitchell & Logan. @matthewnosal; @matthewnosal6893; That is what Josh Saldivar actually answered with to Mitchell & Logan, knowing he is recorded and will be posted on their channel again.
      A. There are several foundries in which the engine blocks they purchase, perhaps have contracts with to manufacture, produce for the Blue Print brand engines.
      B. Josh also stated within his response not all of their engine blocks are cast, manufactured, produced within the USA - apparently at least one foundry is in Mexico
      C. The point which Matthew stated is about the hesitation within the response, reply, answer from Josh; Thus =>
      1. why ? what reason, basis, etc.
      2. clearly. obviously, explicitly from the information stated, Blue Print uses engine blocks cast, manufactured, produced from foundries within the USA and outside
      3. The hesitation in the response indicates he is aware the answer is not completely acceptable, desirable for, with all of their current and potential customers
      4. Also the 'supply chain' reply, which is a revealed common falsehood, was used within that response; probably directed by management
      5. It appears from the reply, Blue Print is involved in developing other means to cast, manufacture, produce engine blocks, perhaps components, maybe such all foundries they contract or purchase from are within the USA too.
      6. Please remember that his man is an employee with specific managerial position, function within the production, assembly team, floor operation;
      a. he also has access to and knows more information than he states
      b. is directed what he is permitted to state to the public along with some limited knowledge too
      c. certainly the corporate executives, managers and others do not share all of the information, nor is all available to everyone either.
      d. also other departments including the purchasing department which certainly have explicit information of the foundries and details have restrictions, limitation with conveying some information too.
      e. hopefully, if a customer or potential customer requests this specific information this will be told and not just in these general terms
      -1. example: personally contacted the CS and techinical with some details about the locations of the manufacture of their electronics; initially the person replied with a general statement of several countries; further questions, requests with specific components revealed which are manufactured in which country
      -2. this availability of information is not always conveyed, allowed, or available either.
      -3. often through person searching have located the suppliers, partners, corporations which parts, components, etc. are purchased and their various manufacturing facilities, locations of each.
      -4. many may not be aware, but all US MIL-STD requires every part, component, detail, aspect be manufactured, developed including all physical pieces, electronics, S/W, F/W, within the USA along with sustainability, security, continued production the many other requirements within the MIL-STD
      -5. The US Military contracts also required these manufactures to abide to, with the US Gov't with no producing, selling their MIL-STD parts, components, etc. to any country, manufacture except within the MIL-STD and when permitted, to specified allies as within NATO and those which the equipment are sold, but limited to the specifics, replacements of those which the USA Gov't sold
      -6. As with the F-14,-15,-16, -35 [not a F-22 and others], the specific versions sold are not exactly the same, especially the electronics, control systems updates, somethime specific engines too.
      -7. this is how the USA managed to stop the Israeli Lavi development, primarily production [a successful 'prototype' aircraft was developed, exists (Israeli development, engineers, scientists are extensive, but industrial manufacturing, production has not developed - they continue to developed advanced technology, ideas, devices, components, S/W, F/W - their developments are then produced within other countries - they developed the first 'drone' for necessity during the 1973 War to trigger the Russian SAM in Syria&Lebanon to fire, empty, then during reload successfully bombed, destroyed them; eventually developing smaller, remote flying 'drones' also in cooperation with the US Military - apparently still ongoing], though initially allowed them to have access to the companies, corporations, manufactures
      -8. as an opposite, when the first MIG fighter and second, fully operational were attained by the US Military in the mid-1980's, at least much of the electronics communications, control, weapons systems contained common MIL-STD [radiation hardened -(opposite to the false premise in JB-"Goldeneye")] electronics (no custom electronics mentioned)
      -a. how were these MID-STD electronics devices, components sold, distributed, arrive in Soviet-Russia and with enough quantity to be within every MIG fighter ?!
      -b. how and why was this information conveyed, 'leaked' by the US Gov't Military, Intelligence ?!
      -c. my personal awareness came through, within the US Gov't contractor which employed me during that period; no 'classified' information channels
      -d. the company, corporation, contractor which employed me, did not develop such electronics for US Military, then, though was involved in the B-2 communications, Radar 'stealth', control S/W, F/W ( not me personally, but some co-workers; specific department of my employment 1988-9(post major layoffs, project cancellation spring 1988), shifted in 1990 to a department more appropriate for my expertise, experience)
      -e, there is much more non-classified, public information most to the vast majority are unaware, ignorant of and ignore too.
      All The Best and Much Success in Your Quest(s), Health, Happiness and Well Being 😊, Sincerely ☺

  • @aurktman1106
    @aurktman1106 Рік тому +2

    I would love to see a $2k basic 350 for those of us who want just a basic engine for a cruiser.

    • @yamahaguy1732
      @yamahaguy1732 10 місяців тому

      They have a mild but powerful 350 they market as the cruiser engine i love it!

  • @75impalaca91
    @75impalaca91 Рік тому

    Why don’t they offer a 2pc rear main Sbc anymore they only said they have 1 pcs

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      Ask them not me lol

    • @75impalaca91
      @75impalaca91 Рік тому

      @@stapleton42extra didn’t mean u sorry I was asking in general if anyone knew why

  • @evelkoloski
    @evelkoloski Рік тому +1

    dude, so busy with work, (brand new sk 415, google that shiz) can you, being an insider.... find out about when the 4 cyl semi ls based crate motor will be available????

    • @newtonfirefly3584
      @newtonfirefly3584 Рік тому

      So You must have located these 3.6 L, 4 cylinder engines are produced within B.P.-Origin Division for industrial applications
      ->also Origin emanates from Mercruiser ->thus seemingly marine applications
      -> also B.P, has both GM/LS & Ford heads mated with this engine
      -> any other details You have located about the single turbo, other modifications as EFI, OHC, aluminum block, Hemi Heads, 16 V [4 V/cyl], VVT, smaller displacements, size ?
      ->smaller size/displacements, EFI, VVT, OHC, 16 V, Hemi, aluminum block these become excellent for many racing applications, engine swaps, custom vehicle builds, etc., along with Flex-fuel, ethanol, methanol, hydrogen uses.
      Sincerely

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      its a long ways off still

  • @radgnarsurfsk8
    @radgnarsurfsk8 11 місяців тому

    Iso9002? 6 sigma?

  • @paulthompson1654
    @paulthompson1654 Рік тому

    Where are all the Sbc 400 blocks and short motors ??? Blue Print offer long motors weird ....

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      They do production in batches

    • @paulthompson1654
      @paulthompson1654 Рік тому

      @@stapleton42extra So are u saying the 400 block is available by it self ??

  • @SSScottSS
    @SSScottSS Рік тому

    I've been trying to decide if I should stroke my 350 or just buy a crate short block from Blueprint Engines. After watching this I decided to check out their BBB rating.... not good at all. Blueprint Engines is not BBB accredited. They only have a C rating. I have "heard" of horror stories through the grapevine. They look pretty legit from this video, but I just don't know. I think I'll lean towards stroking my current engine.

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      I just had an LS engine built from a used block by a local place. Supplying my own parts it cost $6100 just for machining and assembly. BluePrint is a heck of a good value

  • @soggynothere2438
    @soggynothere2438 Рік тому +1

    Did you take an engine

  • @GormanJR0781
    @GormanJR0781 11 місяців тому

    I tried to buy piad in March they said Sept it d be ready which was a lie now Dec they said so I have to get my refund back shouldn't take a yr to get a motor in a factory like that for 25000.oo dollars

  • @DirtePanda
    @DirtePanda Рік тому +2

    Die hard gang🐼🫶

  • @richb4099
    @richb4099 Рік тому +2

    Hard to even believe the funding that has to be behind this business even exists in today's world. Not something I could have ever imagined as a small time engine guy and drag racer myself. I'd be interested to know who and where the $$ came from to develop this business......

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому +1

      The industrial side has more volume than the performance aftermarket

    • @silentknight9509
      @silentknight9509 10 місяців тому

      Plus if I'm not mistaken didn't you touch on how they originally got started in the first video

  • @kevinhlavati5916
    @kevinhlavati5916 Рік тому

    If you get 3000 miles out of one of these engines you'll be lucky... very low quality

  • @bisonwillyssuburbangarage4255

    Parts supply can not be good, most parts in the industry are less than desirable, which parts are you getting is the question.

  • @ferdinandcuevas8457
    @ferdinandcuevas8457 Рік тому

    It would be Nice if You didn't import blocks from overseas and used American made parts and components 🇺🇲. Built in America with American Pride and Quality ! 🇺🇲 🇵🇷 🦊 👍

    • @philipmazzuca2269
      @philipmazzuca2269 Рік тому

      Be nice if all the manufacturers kept it 🇺🇸

    • @philipmazzuca2269
      @philipmazzuca2269 Рік тому +3

      If we had DJT still in office we might still have foundries here in 🇺🇸

    • @bcbloc02
      @bcbloc02 Рік тому +1

      I know trumbull foundry in ohio casts blocks. I suspect Dakota foundry in south dakota can as well. I think there is a CGI casting facility in Columbus Indiana. So still a few places that can do the work. I suspect they just need a long term commitment to be able to invest and add a bunch of production to make it happen. I would love to see it. 🙂

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому +1

      Pretty sure the 632 blocks came from indiana. Problem is being able to get the supply they need when they need it. The recent years have really screwed up a lot of remaining stateside foundries

    • @newtonfirefly3584
      @newtonfirefly3584 Рік тому

      @@philipmazzuca2269 Phillip Mazzuca, clearly You have incorrect, distorted, false based claims, ideas, views from all of the false media 'politics', 'politicians', political parties' -> clearly the SAD state with people, humans, individuals within the USA and nearly every land, country worldwide
      A. The US President has NO affect, influence, power, authority, jurisdiction within any business in the USA or any other land, country worldwide
      1. unless the US President, VP are directly violating the Laws of the US Constitution, or involved in illegal, unlawful, invalid business dealings including within his family as the evidence shows JRB,Jr & Family have been involved with in Ukraine [Burisma], CCP-China, etc.
      2. Also the government within US Federal, State, County, City, Local have NO Authority, Power, Jurisdiction, direction,, dictation, control over any private business, manufacturing, etc.
      3. business exists, depends upon, for the purpose of, with profit via providing products, services for the needs of others.
      B. In a land, country which has a very extreme Authoritarian Government, single authoritarian leader, head as in "Communist/ISM", sometimes within "Socialist/ISM". "Fascist/ISM" [as in Italy with Mussolini, in Spain then too], the Head may direct, dictate, possibly control the development, manufacturing with Gov't owned operations and within "Fascist/ISM" also the privately owned per the country needs.
      C. When the government mettles, gets involved with, directing, dictating, controlling, providing incentives, benefits, etc. for, with, within business, manufacturing, development, etc. this always leads to significant issues, problems, disaster, as with monetary, financial, food, beverages, air, water, land, housing, building, education, medical, health, media, communication, transportation, environment, society, people, energy, every aspect within life, existence in this physical world.
      D. How does it make any financial, monetary sense [cents & dollars] for a metal foundry, cating to exist within another land, country which still has to get its raw materials including iron, steel, aluminum as the USA, transport the raw materials, produce the casts, then transport them back ?
      1. Clearly there is is some other purpose, intents, direction, dictation, control, perhaps subsidy, finances from others which results in this
      2. the mention by this manager of a recent common 'supply chain' is clearly some false claim by those directing, just as all of these claimed 'supply chain' issues
      3. GM, Ford, etc. claims about 'microchip' supply issues werre, are completely false. NO single nor combined electronics, IC manufacture worldwide had any materials, supply issues, nor manufacturing reduction, especially SMIC in Taiwan, Samsung in Korea, Intel [worldwide - USA, Israel, etc.] - clearly they stated these false claims for other actual basis, reasons, purpose, intents
      a. -> note: no single electronics device producer, manufacture, seller with any consumer, industrial, military equipment, devices claimed any such 'supply issue', lacking, difficulty including computers of all types, forms, within communications, tablets, phones, routers, networks, etc.
      b. -> actually they all continued to increase manufacturing, supply, availability, sales, new 'generations', new devices, etc.
      c. any, all 'fuel supply' issues and price increases, have always been false claims portrayals, narratives as in 1973, 1978 with reported significant profit increases during those periods, as again 2021-present.
      All The Best, Sincerely

  • @kevinhlavati5916
    @kevinhlavati5916 Рік тому

    So sad..these guys produce some of the worst engines out there...

    • @stapleton42extra
      @stapleton42extra  Рік тому

      yeah whatever dude

    • @silentknight9509
      @silentknight9509 10 місяців тому +1

      I'm just going to say this I'm not sure what your experience is but I have three friends who have purchased engines from them for different reasons one as a replacement for the original ls in his wife's car another to replace his blown out 350 in his dump truck over a hundred thousand miles on it and the other used that builder series for a swap in a 76 or 77 six cylinder chevy nova outside of one having a issue with paint peeling off when it was un boxed and a cracked connector in the wiring harness of one they have had no issues but if you can give some proof of your claims I would deeply appreciate any information of the sort as I'm looking at purchasing one to put on my roadster shop spec chassis 2nd camaro project lol this will be my first build since the 80s 😊

  • @tomkelly3896
    @tomkelly3896 11 місяців тому

    Lots of chinese parts....these motors dont last.....lots of complaints....lack of customer service.....1.2 rating out of 5 on b.b.b. site....stay away