Hamstick Dipole set-up at WA0FSE - July 9 2016
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2016
- George Scott, WA0FSE, and I set up a Hamstick (MFJ "HF stick") Dipole in his backyard. This includes showing some of the tuning process and making a few contacts.
- Наука та технологія
Thank you for sharing your adventures with tuning a "ham stick" dipole and associated equipment. It's not pretty like a few newer portable antenna systems available today. But it works.
Yes it does. What ever it takes to get QRV. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
This is a great HAM radio video. Fun, set up problems, gear issues, but fun and contacts!!
Well, gosh, that is sure a wonderful comment to see...thank you very much for the kind words...very much appreciated...73! de WX0V
This is inspiring! I lashed up a 40m version today and Oh Boy, the SWR! Thanks to your clip, I'll do some more fiddling.
Thanks for your comment, Jim. I hope this video helps solve your SWR issue. 73! de WX0V
Good video. My outside radio is an 857. I have two Hamtennas for 20m and the center mount. I've never actually tried them out as a dipole, as I have several Par EF antennas and a 31' Jackite pole. Now, you've got me wanting to put mine up and see how they do.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, take advantage of the summer and go out there and do it. 73!
I've seen others trimming those mfj 20 meter sticks out of the box, and they all seem to be set to about 13.8 or 9. I believe they come that way on purpose so that you can trim it to your desired sweet spot depending on which part of the band you spend the most time on. That way, you are not underextended inside the coil and suffer bandwidth issues. 2 inches trimmed off puts you right where they were...right around 14.140-150. Then you just slightly adjust with the he nut...but, know that the adjustment from there I s VERY fine. In or out even half an inch slides the sweet spot up or down quite a bit, so go slow and play with it while retaking your swr to get a feel for it.
Thanks for your input and 73! de WX0V
George was also talking into the wrong side of the microphone. Better audio when the mic is used properly.
Yes, but that wasn't the primary issue...it was a bad MFJ tuner.
I spent quite a bit of time tuning this dual Hamstick dipole for the 75 M frequency I wanted to use. But it has been working pretty well and handles 500 watts of power. I planned to move it to the painter's pole mast I use clamped onto my camper's ladder. I have a dual band 2m/70cm mobile antenna with a ground plane kits and below that, a TV antenna mounted now. A compact Hamstick dipole is a good fit for that configuration. The painter's pole goes up 25' but I only use it at 20' for extra stiffness. Its a good solution for short range and reliable long-range communications. My camper is entirely solar powered so the entire rig is an independent and reliable mobile emergency communications center. Let me add that I like this one so well on the roof because it handles high winds so well, I am now thinking I may leave this one on the roof and assemble a duplicate dipole for the camper. Final thoughts? I have lots of masts up on the roof. More than enough space for more of these tuned to other bands and specific frequencies. I'd like one of these on 30m or on one of the other bands tuned for a PACTOR frequency. No need for a tuner, and good reliable data communications. Chose the frequency based on the mode.
Thank you for your detailed comment and story. 73! de WX0V
It is always hard to be heard talking through the backside of the microphone! LOL, I needed that today!
Indeed! George has a big, robust voice; a Dad's voice, to be sure...that said, it doesn't matter what side of the mic he's speaking into...he's Q5 no matter what...even if there is no mic! :-) 73!
Thanks for this video.
Thank you, Robert...73! de WX0V
I guess turning the mic around worked. LOL had a nice laugh im sure you did too. Great video. I have the same setup for every band when im portable. Works great for me.
Thank you for your comments. Funny how neither George and I noticed he was holding the mic wrong. However, that wasn't the primary issue...it was that beat-up MFJ antenna tuner. Note how George mentions the "SWR is really high" after we got the antenna running. Once we yanked that out (and George turned the mic around), all was good. 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing Im glad you noticed it was the tuner, after all it is MFJ, lol George seems a great guy. Great stuff guys.
Nice video! Thank You for sharing!!!
Keep
Thank you for your comment, and 73! de WX0V
Good stuff!
Thank you!
Amateur radio is all about playing around and then, if necessary, about saving lives.. Why is it that we build up these magnificent stations, become bored with them and then move on to little portable toys?
I will have to add, I have never seen an antenna tuner do any real harm unless something has gone bad or there is an operator error. 73. Good video about real life.
Thank you for your comment.
I think some of us do tend to become bored with our stations, but in this case, George bought the Ham-stick dipole set up to use when camping. This was the only day it has been set-up at his home QTH.
The antenna tuner was faulty, and was robbing power from an already compromised signal. Taking it off line made a significant improvement Had it not been faulty, it would have been fine.
73 and good DX! de WX0V
If you cut them to where the SWR is lowest for the band(s) you intend to operate on... in this case, as close to the center as possible. How far can you tune away either side of center with a tuner and still keep the SWR low? I am looking at purchasing the 20 and 40m variants by next spring in a dipole set up.
That's a valid question, but I'm afraid I have no way of answering it; simply because the antenna is not available for us to test (it was set up for one day). I do know that on my 20m Hamstick, used in the vertical position on my car, the bandwidth is good for a 1.7:1 SWR across the entire SSB portion without a tuner. How much additional bandwidth is available with a tuner I am unsure of. Also, keep in mind, 40m will have a chunk less bandwidth than 20m (80m will have less than 40m, and so on). That's simply the nature of the beast. Whips are cheap, so you can experiment with them. Perhaps get a few extra for test purposes. Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
Hi i like your video, Can you tell me when you cut the whip did you cut one or both? I just got the 40 meter version complete kit from ebay and seems i have to do the same thing but dont want to mess up. And what length of coax do you have? i have 18 feet. thanks n1ghi
Hi Joe. If I recall properly, yes, we cut both whips on both ends. The best thing to do is only cut a little at a time. Make a short cut, and test your SWR. Trim more if needed. If you go too far, however, then you'll need to buy more whips! I do not recall the length of the coax; maybe 20 feet...not sure. It was WA0FSE's antenna...not mine. I was just the film guy/smart-ass that day. :-) Thank you for your comment and 73! de WX0V
Thank you ya I just got the 40 meter version wasn't sure if I should cut both or just one and ya I don't need to cut much I'm starting in the digital portion of the band. Thank you
So guys, these are 20's, on 75/80's how long is this thing on the flat side(attic) I surely want to be able to rotate right through the(drywall) cute Lil hand crank/gearbox/long shafts & some u joints right straight to my chair. Can you pictue it? I'm on the MFJ web site and it says not a dang thing about length on the different band model stix. I've got a good tuner so probably can tune it a bit more loose but thanks for the video guys
Boy, I'm not sure on that, as neither George nor I have the 75m/80m Ham-tenna. The problem is, the length is going to be determined by your tuning solution; how long your elements are required to be in order to be resonant. 80m/75m is a BIG band, so there is likely a big range of lengths it could be. That's likely why MFJ doesn't offer any measurements. I can say my own 20m Ham-tenna is about 7 foot long not including the base (I just measured it), but again, no clue how long the 75m/80m version is. Thanks for your question and good luck with your antenna project. 73! de WX0V
By the way, that is 7 feet per Ham-tenna, so in this configuration, it would be a minimum of 14 feet (actually, longer than that because that measurement does not include the mounting base).
I've had good luck with the same mfj dipole rig but using the 17' telescoping whips for 20-6 -- much easier to adjust at least for me.
Good suggestion...a really good suggestion. A much longer solution but multiple bands. Good call...73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing Yeah.. I only have room to do 6m on that setup at the qth but it's great at the park.
@@jvanb231 Real estate is an issue. Most of us are not going to have a K3LR situation, so we do what we can with what we have. So you are on point...73! de WX0V
Unless I missed it, and I've watched this many times mainly because I like the experimentation part, I am assuming the 2 antennas were trimmed equally and simultaneously during the tuning process, correct?
Yes, that is correct. Each element length was trimmed to the same length. Good question! 73! de WX0V
Awesome. Thanks
Wow he is a good looking guy..for an old dude. It was a fun afternoon and got some problems solved. We will do it again.
very informative thanks for the video.
Thank you for the comment and 73! de WX0V (WA0FSE is still hibernating).
Great video I’m thinking of buying 4 ham sticks for 17 m and making a 2 element mini beam , how do you think this would perform cheers
Thank you for the kind words. Not sure how the beam idea would work, but if you do it, maybe make a video and post it to You Tube. I suspect many would be interested to see how that goes. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
nice, I have solid aluminum dipole made by Sirio. I love it
Xray 2zero4 whats the model?
Sirio SD 27
Xray 2zero4 but for 14mhz? thats for CB
no for 26 and 27 MHz of course.
Just wondering, what kind of bandwidth do you get with that sort of setup?
Although it will depend on the band you choose, I seem to recall a reasonable bandwidth on 20 meters of about 75 KCs or so, more or less. Your mileage will vary, of course...73!
Absolutely newbie ham here. Just got my technician month ago and general yesterday. Ready to jump into HF. Awesome video! Could you post where to buy those components? Including the one you cut short? Are they just regular wire? What gauge?
Hello, and great to hear you you just got your license, and have upgraded to General so quickly. Good for you! These products are made by a company called MFJ. A variety of retailers sell their products; a Google search should bring up several. These were not my products; they were my neighbor's, so I do not have any exact part numbers for you (I was just the cameraman). However, going to MFJ's web page should allow you to find them quickly. Thank you for posting and 73! de WX0V
Ham sticks are available anywhere and cheap. you will need an antenna analyzer to tune it precisely. A painters pole makes a good mast, or a piece of conduit. MFT makes the dipole mount.
Can that mount be oriented vertically? I could then mount it on a non-conductive pipe and have an omni-directional antenna without running a lot of radial wires. The horizontal mount is too close to the ground for me.
I'm not sure what that would do to the radiation pattern, but if you already have the needed gear, it would be worth a try. The raw antenna themselves are verticals, but joining them and running them in opposite directions (in a vertical plane) like this could bring unwanted results. Try it and find out. Before purchasing the needed items, I would model this with one of the available antenna modeling programs (Cal, M0MCX, the "DX Commander" shows this a lot on his channel). Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing If a horizontal dipole is close to the ground it becomes a NVIS (Cloud warmer). Making it vertical gives a lower angle of radiation and has the potential of longer distance.
My question was asking if that dipole adapter could be mounted vertically, in other words, can the mount be rotated 90 degrees and mounted on a vertical pole.
@@eminusipi Ok...I read your question wrong...sorry about that. Unfortunately, I cannot answer it because I do not own the item in question...WA0FSE does (I was just the camera operator). You can email WA0FSE at his QRZ address...I'm sure he would be happy to answer you. Good luck on your project and 73! de WX0V
i have the same antenna how many inches you have to take off from the whip...
Please see Don Silva's comment here. His input will likely answer your question. Thank you and 73! de WX0V
did u ever found ur self talking in the wrong side of the mic ????? not me hi hi kg6mn
Well, at least it wasn't a desk mic. 73 de WX0V
jerome grzelak
Yeah, I was hoping that I wasn't the only one who saw that!
37, oh wait I need to flip that around, 73.
What's the ideal 'length' of the 20m hamstick? I have two of these on a dipole and i'm having a very hard time getting them tuned with a low SWR.
Hello, and thank you for your question. Unfortunately, this video is 4 years old and I do not have the dimensions you're seeking (plus the antenna is not mine). All I can suggest is to use an antenna analyzer as we did in the video, and adjust accordingly for your desired SWR dip. If no reasonable dip is attainable, there could be something wrong in the system. I know the Hamtenna and Hamsticks can be damaged if the rods are pushed in too far, so check that, too. Thank you for your comment and 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing Actually, I am using an analyzer, but still find the SWR to be over 4.0 regardless of how extended or retracted the 'whip' part of the ham stick is. Actually, I"m using the same analyzer as was used in the video.
@@tglenn3121 I suspect something is foul somewhere; maybe the loading coils were damaged or fried, but no way to tell. If you can, try a set of new antennas, or, see if either antenna works by themselves in the regular, singular (vertical) configuration. I hope you can get it to work. Good luck and 73! de WX0V
Hi George, thanks for the video, I suspected that an aerial I purchased of simpilar design/copy is far to long and your video confirms. BEFORE you throw anything in the trash I think you were talking into the back of the microphone, lots of attenuation HI. 73s G1PPZ
Hi Andrew,
Wow. I had not noticed that George was talking into the back of the mic! That, along with the faulty antenna tuner, indeed hurt his readability! Good catch! Thanks for your words and 73! de Scott, WX0V
Where'd ya get that tripod? :)
Not sure. It belongs to WA0FSE (I think he still has it). You can email him at his QRZ address. Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
Good video. Very 'watchable' and useful. Not poseur-tastic, or buzzphrase ridden. (And now I know what I really needed to trim a whip down.)
Thank you. Although it's not really a "how to" video, it does shows the process, and is somewhat helpful, so I appreciate your feedback. George and I had fun that day. 73!
I’ve been trying the same configuration. I thought all you had to do to tune the antenna was to just insert or pull out the radials to tune the antenna. Was it necessary to cut the metal part of the antenna ?
Yes, because in the situation shown in the video, inserting the whips to the shortest possible length, they were still too long to be able to tune to 20 meters (this is shown in this video). So we had to trim them. Recently when I did a Hamstick/MFJ Hamtenna for mobile, as seen in this video, ua-cam.com/video/W-yTg0OqShw/v-deo.html, I did not have to trim the whips. In this Hamstick Dipole case, we did. Try it before cutting them first, but if the resonant QRG is too high (i.e. say, 16MHz is the lowest you can go for a 14MHz antenna), then you gotta start cutting. Baby-steps here...cut small lengths. If you cut too much you could be screwed. Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
You must excuse my signal, I use MFJ equipment. LoL
😀...although to be fair, there are MFJ products that work very well, but the old tuner in this video wasn't one of them. 73! de WX0V
You are adjusting 2 20m sticks as dipol for 20m?
Correct. It's a rather common way of using the Hamstick/Hamtenna verticals; MFJ even makes a coupler for that very use. Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing 20m vertikal (single hamstick) needs radial or other counterpoise. 2x20 stick as dipol dont need it and works as 20m dipol, right?
i try to understand antennatechnologie, coz thats a most missunderstood area in hamradio. And i have not (yet :D) enough experience/knowledge about.
thnx fer answer and 73
@@larspregge6420 Yes, that's pretty much the idea here. This is a rather simple design, so don't expect anything stellar. It will make contacts however, and is fun to play with. 73! de WX0V
why use a tuner at all when you adjust it to resonates at the beginning?
Probably more out of habit than anything else. I have to run a tuner with many of my antennas, so I also didn't think of running the radio without one. In the end, we did remove it, so at least we figured it out. 73 de WX0V
WX0V on further review, it seems the ham stick won’t actually get fully resonate except maybe on 17 12 and 10. Just not long enough to get 1:1. 20meter is close but still around 2:1 in most cases I’ve seen reviewing that size. Thanks for the reply.
@@forgetyourlife That seems about right. George had 20m and 40m sticks (I do as well), and the bandwidth is much smaller on 40m than on 20m, as you would expect. Still a decent antenna for what it is. 73! de WX0V
Does he still have his 897?
Yes...George rarely sells a radio. 73! de WX0V
That’s great George really seems like a nice person...
@@2metercrew389 Yep, he sure is. 73! de WX0V
what's the bandwidth like ?
Although it will depend on the band you choose, you can be looking at a bandwidth on 20 meters of about 75 KCs or so, more or less.
Your mileage will vary, of course...73!
I have thought why other people haven't tried that.it looks like a good idea if you have very little space
What would REALLY help is if you shared how long the final whips ARE.
Too late, as this was 6 years ago. However, if you have an antenna analyzer, start with the stock elements, and trim to tune...not that hard to do. Plus, you may pick a QRG that is different from what WA0FSE wanted, and which case, the element length may not be useful. 73 de WX0V
Hello George, love your video. I have the MfJ-1620 Ham-tenna. The question I have for you is, When you trimmed your whips how far into the coil did you go? On my setup I did not trim I got the whips in about 8 inches on both sides with a SWR reading of 1.3 on14.200 MHz and 2.3 on 14.300 MHz. Should I trim off that extends into the coil.Thanks for any help that you can give me. Doug kC2YME can't wait to get on 20 m I will be taking my General class test in two weeks
Hi, Doug. This is Scott, WX0V. We took apart that antenna shortly after the video was shot, and I doubt George would recall what the whip-into-coil measurement was (the antenna was put away for the winter). It appears by watching the video (around the 3:19 mark or so) that George measures the whip right up to the outer edge (cylindrical bulge) of the coil. I know he was being careful in regards to the coil, so that is likely a good guide.
I have the original Hamsticks and I seem to recall there is some sort of stop that prevents you from going too far. I am not sure if the MFJ version also features that.
If you are going to operate SSB on 20m, then a 1.3 SWR at 14.200 is pretty darned good, but if you want that match into the General portion, perhaps shorten it maybe 1/2" or so on each end. I suggest sliding the whips into the base first, versus cutting them.
If you have to cut the whips, do so in small increments. If you cut them too far, your SWR could be so far off that it is not correctable, and you'll have to get new ones.
If you plan on working the CW portion of 20m, and you have cut your whips to be tuned in the SSB portion, it might already be too late. You might be able use a tuner, but your results may vary.
If others here have any suggestions/comments, please post them.
Good luck on your General test; I hope you pass with flying colors! 73 de WX0V
Thank you Scott for the good info. I think I have it pretty close to what George had it at. I hope you and are doing well. like George said not too many videos on Tuneing .And thank you for your good wishes on my test.Hope to hear you on 20 meters. 73. Doug KC2YME
Hello! I bought an antenna like this, but I'm having trouble tuning. I saw you cut the rods, what measure did you use? Many tnks 73s CT3AB
Hello Filipe, I'm sorry, but we did not measure the lengths we cut them to. The best thing, if possible, is to use an antenna analyzer to determine the resonant frequency, and then base your whip trimming on that. For example, if your resonant QRG is well under the desired QRG with the whips fully retracted, you know you have to cut some. Start out small; 2 to 3mm a shot or so. Good luck, and 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing
Thank you very much, I'll test and then I'll tell you the results. 73s CT3AB
Ok. I'm sorry that I don't have better data for you. If I did, I would be more than happy to pass that along. This video was shot over 2 years ago, and that antenna is not set up any more. Good luck and I hope you can get your set-up to work...73! de WX0V
What number MFJ tuner was giving you trouble. 73 AE4OY William Peacock EM-81UF SOUTH EAST GEORGIA
Good question but I do not remember...it was WA0FSE's tuner. It was a low-end MFJ...that I do recall. Thanks for your question and 73! de WX0V
with the land you have you can put big tower and big optibeam
Land is one thing, *permission to use it* is another. The local government has restrictions on how large of an antenna you can install. We can go up to about 50 feet or so. Even then, George had to sweet-talk the local official a bit when he got permission to put up his tower. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
i have that same tuner. works great. just not on a resonant antenna :)
😁 Glad to hear your tuner works well. This one was not. If it struggled with a resonant antenna, it would have even bigger issues with an antenna that wasn't. 73 de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing problem is there is no pass through option on this tuner. inductance is measured with letters and theres no way of using no inductance. i can tune just about anything with it. except the resonant antenna :). its a shame because the meters would be nice to have.
@@drunkinfoo It is a low-end tuner so one cannot expect too much. 73! de WX0V
Talking into the back of the mic? Oops... Anyone use these for 75/80m? Have a small lot and it seemed like it worked well for you.
The primary issues with a setup such as this on 80m is the very narrow bandwidth and a lack of antenna gain; both are needed on the low bands. I'm certain it would function...just not very well. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
Didn't she open for Madonna? Hahaha! Great video! KG5LQM 73's!
I'm glad somebody out here has a sense of humor. Thanks for the comment! 73 de WX0V
Not at all a criticism, as this is a good instructional vid. I don't understand why George was using the MFJ tuner at all on a well tuned antenna.
That's a fair question. The answer is probably more out of habit than anything else. I have to run a tuner with all of my antennas, so I also didn't think of running the radio without one. In the end, we did remove it, so at least we figured it out. 73 de WX0V
They really arent tuners - they are trans-matches. Much better to build the antenna with the transmission line to be resonant on the frequency you want. There are probably a lot of people running QRP that don't even know it.
Indeed; resonance is your friend. I use an 80m dipole to run 160m. My tuner tunes it flat (ha, ha), but I suspect my 100w is essentially QRP as it's getting munched up in the tuner. 73! de WX0V
Like vehicles, they aren't yours till you drill your first hole in them, antennas aren't antennas till you cut on them or stick them in your hand and make a blood sacrifice :D
If any better words were ever uttered about antennas, I am unaware of them. Great comment! 73! de WX0V
Good attempt with the Hamsticks but they are poor radiators.
Agreed, and unless conditions were really good, I wouldn't expect to do much DXing. However, this set up can get you on the air quickly with a small footprint. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
Two work better than one. And better still if you get it up high.
But you guys started the process with an 817 doing QRP...obviously throwing 100w into it instead of 5w will make a bit of difference as well...LOL
Indeed, power certainly changes things. I seem to recall we didn't stay with the 817 for very long, but this was 5 years ago. The MFJ tuner was faulty, however. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
@@SuburbanDXing I appreciate the feedback! I just picked up a set for 20m and 75m (80) with the dipole adapter so I was scrubbing UA-cam to see any other interactions with them. I mainly run QRP with my 818 and end fed wire antennae in varied configs but saw these in use over Field Day successfully so I figured "what's $150?" and figured I'd get a couple sets. Trimming and tuning today.
@@jameskj3mee269 Hope your project goes well...73!
@@SuburbanDXing Just looping back to this, the sets I've bought have been working great. Had a 20m contact to Italy from Maryland yesterday with the Yaesu 891 @ 50w. Getting these tuned as resonant as possible is key.
@@jameskj3mee269 Super. As the solar cycle starts coming in, you might be surprised at the contacts you make. 73! de WX0V
I am sure the problem was that he was speaking into the back of the microphone. Just saying.
George's improper use of the mic didn't help, but the MFJ tuner was bad. Thanks for your comment and 73 de WX0V
I just grabbed my Icom HM-36 hand mic and spoke into the back of it, and it created reasonable output power and usable audio. Clearly the proper side of the mic was better (duh) but I'm rather certain I could have a QSO speaking into the back of the mic.
Counterpoise wire
This is a dipole configuration so the counterpoise is already the other half of the antenna. Thanks for your comment and 73! de WX0V
try turning mic around and not speaking onto back of it
Get close and then just use a tuner
I am not sure what you mean. Get close to what? Also, the tuner was defective. 73 de WX0V
turn mike around
ft users mod the mic to electric u dont have to yell into the mic kg6mn