Figuring Out the Problem with my Hamstick - Part 1
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- After trying to use my Shark Hamstick for the first time while on a Parks on the Air Activation at K-1000 I ran into problems and after running some ideas by some other Hams I was armed with lots of suggestions on how to get my SWR situation under control!
In this video we took a look at the placement of the antenna on the car, and while the solution isn't the best, it will work for now.
In upcoming videos I will also take a look at in-line filters to the radio, different mounting methods, and counterpoise wires.
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I'm learning all kinds of things about my Hamsticks, but I'm still having SWR problems! haha thanks for the video, I'll look into a magmount eventually anyways I like that.
One thing I noticed on your rig expert. You set the width of the scan at 1000 kHz. I try to set that to what range I’ll actually work within the band. I am only a Technician, so when setting up my 10 meter ham stick I’d not go wider than 200 for range and I’d pick 28.400 as the frequency.
I too had the same problems with the short Shark Sticks, couldn't get the SWR down below 2.2:1 anywhere on and bands. I have sticks for 40, 20, 15. After much experimentation I found they don't like the body/roof of my car. If I extended the coax fully out the 15 ft length in a straight line horizontally from the mag mount toward the back of the car the SWR came into a usable range, it made a better counter poise ground this way, but that wasn't practical.
So I made a ground plate of copper flashing that goes between the NMO mount on the Shark Stick and the mag mount base essentially adding a ground plate to the whole mag mount system. (But not touching the RF connection side) I then run 4 - 30 ft ground wires off that plate and threw them off to the sides of the car. Works great now! 1:1 most of time on all 3 bands!! A friend told me most newer cars are using more plastic body parts, and the few metal parts are not really contiguous in their connection making for a bad ground plane. Adding 4 ground wires made a world of difference!!
I've ended up switching to the Hustler Resonator system and a few full size hamsticks for the WARC bands and have had great success with them.
When you moved up the band and engage the internal antenna tuner, you really weren't tuning the antenna at that point. You made the internal antenna match the impedance for an antenna that was not really very resonant on the high end of the band. To effectively work the higher end of the band as demonstrated in your video, you would have needed to shorten the tip on that hamstick a little bit. Adjusting the frequency resonance on the antenna is actually tuning the antenna, engaging the internal antenna tuner does not really tune the antenna, it only matches the impedance if it can. A much better plan for working the higher end of the voice spectrum in that band would have been:
Leave the internal antenna tuner disengaged
and
Adjust the tip of the antenna itself for resonance on the given frequency that you would like to operate.
I suspect that person that could not hear you, would have heard you, or at least you would have stood a much better chance of being heard.
73 W3GUY
I LOVE my Shark Ham Sticks. I am in an HOA and I am using the Shark Ham Sticks for base ops. I parked my 2001 Durango next to the garage, ran coax under the garage door and straight into my 7300. I am using an MFJ Tri magnet mount. This setup is working in stellar fashion! Transmitting out of the Heber Valley in Utah, I have had QSOs with Southern Chile, Brazil, Barcelona, Costa Rica, Canary Islands, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, and countless QSOs within all 50 states & Canada. My favorite QSOs are with POTA stations, I look forward to talking with operators in the different parks & summits.
I use my radio for SSB COMMS. I have zero interest in none verbal comms, vOIP, ft8 or any of those methods/modes, so my comments are based on SSB COMMS only. I use the 10, 15, 17, 20, & 40 meter whips. The kit included a 75 meter whip, but zero luck with that one. No biggie for me, got plenty of opportunities on all the other bands. That 75 whip doesn't tune very well, but I honestly haven't put too much time into the 75 meter whip.
I have the standard whips, not the minis.
Thanks for watching! Since this video I have made some changes to my Hamstick setup. I am also using the MFJ Triple Magnet Mount now, which has greatly improved things. I have switched to Hustler Resonators, but have some of the full size whips to try out still. I have used mine for 99% SSB doing POTA Activations with much success. I've made a few contacts on 75m with a hamstick but the bandwidth is very very small at that frequency. Hope to work you from a park soon. Thanks again, 73! -Kevin
@@WQ9FHamRadio The 75 & 80 whips I have not been able to tune. No matter how you move that whip section, the SWR doesn't go below 9. The MFJ I have here can handle that, but foward power is minimal, so I gave up on 80 a while back,
I don't have the room for such an antenna, and the whips are not good on these particular bands, at least NOT from here. This may vary by location. Post it on here if you have any luck with the 75/80 whips. I would be interested in seeing what you did to make that magic happen! LOL
Heyyy heber? HAM neighbor :)
Great video. I have the Xiegu G90 and am in the process of getting it set up for mobile(on my campervan, which has a fibreglass roof,so no magmount possible). I will try to attach my antennae to a camper ladder at the back of the van, which should work hopefully. I also make Nature videos, for my channel, so the radio will be setup for when i am in the field doing some filming. Look forward to seeing more of your radio and setup. Cheers.
I worked POTA 2 with Hamstick recently. I started with a mag mount but I had very poor reception and transmission. I with my FT-857 I could not get any sort of working SWR. I also use a USDX + low power radio.
The problem I discovered was that using a portable battery there was no Ground. I tossed the mag mount and got a lip mount. The rig is now grounded to my Sienna body and working much better.
I mostly work FT-8 and some SSB.
Thanks for watching! When I first started with the hamsticks I was using a single magnet mount and was having the same problem with SWR, I switched to a triple magnet mount to get better coupling between the vehicle and antenna and it has worked great since. I've been debating getting a lip mount and an screwdriver antenna but thats for another time haha. 73! -Kevin
New subscriber ...look forward to the mobile/portable setting up 👍73
Do you use a Common mode choke ?
Sounds like you're getting RF back because of proximity ?
I ran Hamsticks for many years, before moving to a screw driver, simply for the convenience of Band hoping !
Remember too, that where you place the antenna, can make it directional !
As RF follows Ground !
With the antenna mounted on the center of the hood, I'd guess your best signal is off the back of the car !
Handy to know, as you can then point your car in a particular direction, for best transmit signal !
Following the law of reciprocity, it may hear better that direction as well ?
But with such a small footprint, as offered by the car's size, it's hard to say ?
Since you run stationary, have you ever entertained placing some wires under the magnet as counterpoise ?
Might prove interesting ?
'73 !
Addendum :
I noticed later that you had a tree in close proximity to your antenna ?
Maybe preaching to the choir ?
For best results, these tests should be done free of obstructions, and in the clear !
Appreciate your sharing this video and trouble shooting details. Interesting to learn about the process of RIG Expert vs experiencing issues. I am planning to use ham sticks this year. Hopefully activate Starved Rock park with my brother W9GFH 😎
73 Steve AA4SH Tennessee
I see in the comments you don’t have these anymore but still wanted to ask a question about them. I have them and a hustler mag mount on a full size truck. When I hook it up to my rig expert and do live swr meter I get extremely sporadic readings if I move the coax at all. I mean even moving the analyzer a foot is changing from 1.3 - 3 swr. Do you think my coax may have failed?
I don't think so on the coax failure. My shark sticks are real squirly too moving coax around makes radical changes it seems. The MFJ hamsticks which are much longer physically on the same bands work much better than the HF Sharks, also the Shark hamsticks never do any better than 2.1:1 as hamstick dipoles either with out a matching section no matter how you tune them length wise. Some say there is too much metal inside the hamstick after tuning the whip and this extra metal screws up the SWR. I haven't tried this fix yet.
My dipole mfj ham sticks are hi q. I still use an antenna tuner for normal operations.
I've picked up a few MFJ Hamsticks, for 12, 17, and 30m, I use them now with a triple magnet mount and they work very good. I haven't tried them in a dipole config yet though. 73
They don't do well next to a glass sun roof. No getting around that. Also, they do better on the top of a car than on a trunk clip mount or at the edge of a trunk. They need a couple of feet of metal around them for best results. And, you should trim some of the excess whip off on the bottom under the set screw. That changes it too.
Sir, what amp hour battery are you using, and with average use how many hours of operation will you get from it using the 7300? 73 NS9T
I have since sold my 7300 but I have a 20ah and a 15ah Bioenno battery that I use with my current 100w POTA radio which is a Icom 7200. Running SSB "Contest Style" meaning 100+ QSOs per Hour, I can get about 4 hours out of my 20ah battery. Running Casual POTA I have never run it empty but I can probably get 6+ hours form the 20ah battery. Running 100w Digital I only get about 2-2.5 hours out of the 20ah battery. Thanks for watching, 73, Kevin WQ9F
Try to run a seperate ground wire from the antenna to a bolt or screw on the car where you can get to a solid ground.
Thanks for watching. I ended up getting a triple magnet mount to give me a better connection with the roof, and I switched from the Shark Mini Hamsticks to using a Hustler Resonator, both of those have given me much more success! 73, -Kevin
Seems like it will work, I might try and get some sort of mobile antenna, (that isn't an old CB antenna I can tune on 10m) or maybe try and build an antenna for mobile use. (One that isn't my portable vertical which is about 20ft tall with a radial system.)
Hamsticks are pretty cheap, I picked up a whole handful of them at a hamfest over the weekend for $10, can't wait to give them a try.
@@WQ9FHamRadio hey! If it puts out RF and you are patient it will work fine where you can’t put up a wire. If you CAN put up a wire and run at least 25 watts your successes will be much greater. This is what ham radio is all about. Experimenting! Friday I will help another ham install his DX Commander Nebula vertical. The pole is 54ft tall. More fun.
Dave K8WPE
@@davidj.wilcox6053 I've got an end fed in my kit that I've used, I am going to start making that part of my mobile kit for park operating I think. I've got a DX Commander Expedition and am currently installing the Classic at my new house right now, great antennas, and great customer service. 54' is a little tall for my lot, but it looks like a fun antenna for sure. Good Luck! 73
I would try the full-size ham stick instead of the mini….
Thanks for watching! Yeah the mini hamsticks were not doing it, and I ended up with more problems than they were worth. I picked up a set of Hustler Resonators with a mast at a Hamfest and so far they have been doing much better! 73, Kevin
@@WQ9FHamRadio very good!
I have not tried the mini hamstick, but I have used the regular hamstick and they were quite steep on the usable area, very high Q, narrow-banded in the band.
@@ErnestGWilsonII The mini hamstick have an even more narrow bandwidth. I have since changed to using a set of Hustler Resonators and have had much greater success!
A mag mount does NOT provide a good low impedance grounding connection to the body of the vehicle for HF operating frequencies. If you use a mag
mount you MUST have a wire that bonds the metal of the mag mount base to the body of the vehicle. The length of the wire must be as short as possible and will likely require scraping away paint to make solid contact with bare metal.
One of the least visually intrusive and most efficient HF mobile antenna mounting arrangements is to to mount the antenna on a bracket attached to a roof rail at the left rear corner of an SUV or a station wagon roof. Run the coax feed line up the lift gate frame channel outside and adjacent to the weather stripping, depending on the way the weather stripping works you might be able to tuck in under the weatherstrip edging or you can tack it in place in the channel with a few neatly cut pieces of wide Gorilla Tape. At the upper left corner of the lift gate frame, where it will be hidden with the lift date closed drill a small hole in the frame using a Dremel burring tool or abrasive wheel to scrape away the paint around the hole just enough to provide for full contact of a wire terminal lug. Split out the shield of the coax so there is just enough shield to attach a grounding lug to, crimp on and solder the lug to the shield as
close as possible to the where the shield and center conductor break out of the coax. Secure the lug at the hole with a sheet metal screw and a star washer that will provide a little bite into both the lug and the vehicle bare metal. Solder and insulate a piece of insulated stranded wire just long enough to run from the
to the center conductor of the coax at the breakout point up to the bottom of the antenna at whatever you have for an insulated mounting bracket. I usually make something out a CB trucker mirror mount bracket that is bolted to the
roof rack rail or even a roof rack crossbar if you can have one very close to the rear of the roof. The insulated wire between the feed line breakout up to the antenna should be as short as possible as it in fact becomes the bottom of the antenna. Add some layers of tape where it will pass between the gap between the lift gate and the roof. The feedline can be run into the vehicle over the weatherstrip at the lower left corner of the lift gate. I have the used this arrangement on two different Volvos over the last 18 years on all bands between 80 and 10
meters, and never have had a problem getting a near perfect SWR at resonance. I’ve never needed either an internal or external antenna tuner with the radios I have used - originally a Yaesu FT-100D and more recently an Icom 7100, neither of which have internal antenna tuners. However, on 80 and 40 meters, in order to get the best possible SWR match you will need to use either a capacitor or coil shunt matching reactance across the feed point. On 80 a minimum 500
pF or 1000 pf. On 40 500
pf.’ Alternatively a small shunt coil connected across the feed point will usually work on both 80 and 40 meters, I just made one consisting of about 6 turns of No.16 stranded close wound on a plastic prescription pill
bottle. The caps and or coil
can be placed in a small plastic box mounted near the feed point, with their ground end permanently connected with short lugged wires to the grounding screw for the feed
line under the upper left corner of the lift gate. The antenna side can be connected and disconnected at the base of the antenna as needed using quick disconnects, I use the AMP snap connectors that look like
banana pins and jacks sold at Home Depot.
Never have needed wany shunt matching on 20 meters and higher bands. All I’ve ever done to tune the antennas is to adjust the stinger lengths. On 80 and 40 the Q of the antennas will be very high so will need to change the stinger lengths as you move around the band. Make up a table of lengths for the best matches at the frequencies you operate on, they will at least get you close when you are swapping sticks from one band to the other. I’ve found that once found, the stinger lengths for a best match at a given frequency do not significantly change as long as the mounting arrangement on the vehicle has not changed. The Icom radios SWR frequency scan and plot display is great for finding our where your resonant point is for starters, so you know if must go shorter to move the resonant frequency up, or longer to move it down.
I’ve found that many Hamsticks for 80 meters and some for 40
meters are not long enough to resonate all the way down to the bottom of the CW band, or the lower end of the phone band. I’ve found longer stingers can often be made from either stainless steel rod stock or from CB antennas sold at truck stops.
Chris AJ1G Stonington CT
Several issues, but this is the major one. You must have a connection to ground; especially with the lack of ground plane on the roof. The whole thing is like a a transmission line terminated with a high Q termination and no real ground. The coax becomes "hot", and it is what is actually radiating. The impedance is going all over based on the coax relative position vs the cars body. So bust open the mag mount and connect a braid and ties the magnet "ground" to the car with a DC connection? Yes.
So now you're driving a Unicorn, i would tell the old lady "hey babe, the VW's gotta go, we're getting a Hummer and that's th@^#*$^.........."
Okay, maybe not such a good idea, proceed at own risk!
Enjoyed the video and subbed, have fun and 73' de KC5JSR.
Hahaha, so far the VW has been pretty reliable, except installing any radio or antennas has proven to be a huge pain. Thanks for watching! 73, Kevin
I switched from Hamsticks to a Hi-Q-5-80.. check out my project video: ua-cam.com/video/y_z-WfdzU18/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching! I have seen others using those antennas, I will have to take a look. I stopped using those hamsticks shortly after making this video, and have switched to using the Hustler Resonator Coils with much success. 73 -Kevin
First, tune your whip for lowest SWR on the frequency you want to be closest to. That will improve your efficiency. The built in tuner is OK but adds another loss in the circuit. THEN, use a wire counterpoise adjusting the length to the band you want to use. As you noticed the car body is a poor counterpoise and depends on where you put the antenna. Larger vehicles make better counterpoises. Mobile is a sacrifice, but if you are stationary adding a wire counterpoise wire makes a difference. Also if you really want to use your vehicle mobile bond all the doors, muffler, engine, etc., together. You will notice much better results and greatly reduce your auto generated noise. If you want to know more contact Ed, K8ZZ. He is “Mr Mobile” in my book and has done county hunting transmitting mobile from all counties in all 50 States. He uses Hustler whips in his car and rental vehicles.
Dave K8WPE since 1960
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comments! Once I get the tuning down, the counterpoise is going to be my next addition. I think that will most likely give me the best results as far as effort goes . I will look up Ed K8ZZ! Thanks again for the great suggestions, this is just what I needed. 73! -Kevin, WQ9F
as short as thatannttenna is don't expect miracles. the longer hamstick will work much beter.
Yeah I have already ditched these and am using the Hustler Resonators with the Hustler HM-3 Fiberglass Mast now with much greater success. Thanks for watching. 73 -Kevin
Your not going to get a HF antenna to work right without a grounded mount.. period.. you have to have a solid ground or your just spitting into the wind .. you can get by with HF and VHF so long as you're not running too much power.
You have to drill holes Sorry..