Fuel cell stack explained
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2011
- The fuel cell stack assembly is described in this video. Proton exchange membrane fuel cell components are shown in details. Starting from a 5-cell stack, 2 cells are added to complete a 7-cell stack. Assembling process is described step by step. Comments in English.
See details of this product at www.pragma-industries.com.
This is not a video about HHO generator but fuel cell as power generator. - Наука та технологія
Outstanding video overview, excellent shop location (less than two miles from the coast!), great website. These guys work out of a small metal clad building practically within walking distance to the East Coast.
Hydrogen is the direction we need to go in, vs. the current, mass marketed, outdated battery technology. We're all way behind on this exceptional alternative fuel source. We started working on hydrogen fuel for our custom made boats (V8, Jet and prop ski boats) 40 years ago. Unfortunately that R&D bankrupted us. So it's great to see vids like this promoting this exceptional fuel source.
Thank you for your support.
@wayoentertainment Thanks for finding the video useful. For the liquid flowfield (for stack cooling), you've got to be careful with the pressure drop that would result from more but smaller channels. The one we designed work great because the stack is cooled at every separator plate (it was designed for research to temperature has to be the most homogeneous within the whole stack). However, it is quite common to cool down industrial stacks every 2 or 3 plates to reduce costs and size.
yes homogeneous flow is need but also the thermal stress on different spot in the reactor, will poke a hole on a plate.
it was crystal clear in few minutes i learned a lot from you
Very clear instruction, well done
Hi there may I know the overall electricity production efficiency when using the PEM Fuel Cells and have you guys incorporated nanofluids in your cooling liquid?
This was a wonderful learning experience! Thank you! This helped me better understand PEM electrolyzers too! That fuel cell looks like it would work as an electrolyzer with no problem. You could force deionized water into one port on the anode and collect oxygen and recycle water from the other port, diagonal from it. On the cathode side, you connect both ports to a T connector, run through a water-gas separator and collect the hydrogen. The water cooling ports would remain unused. I would LOVE to see how many LPM I could get from a stack that size!! :)
It looks like they are putting these graphite plates into PEM fuel cells and running hexo and mirai cars with it. It looks like the the fuel cell is made of like 400 plates and it's like 3 feet long, two foot wide, ect. So they use graphite plates? No platinum or anything? is this to save costs?
@@MinecraftSurge I had to watch a little clip of the video again to refresh my memory. Yeah, he didn't just use Nafion in between the graphite plates. He was putting complete MEA's in between them, which already has some platinum deposited on them. Those black squares on each side of the Nafion membranes contain carbon, platinum and I forget what else. And, the platinum is the most expensive material, followed by the Nafion.
@azizeqab Hello, operating temperature of this fuel cell is ambient to 80°C. It is a "forced air flow" design, as opposed to "open cathode" (forced convection by fan through transversal channels) or "air breathing" design (natural convection over flat cathodes side). So air is pushed inside the fuel cell and distributed to the cells the same way that hydrogen is supplied to anodes. Cooling is achieved with a separate flow field within each bipolar plates by liquid flow.
Hi,this is Amy from China. We are a full service purveyor of Graphite Materials and Graphite Products.I saw Fuel Cell Bipolar Plates in your video. If any needs,please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks!
+徐龙珠 hello , I'm interested in what he says, how i contact you?.
transportation, portable uses, and stationary installations. In the future, fuel cells could power our cars, with hydrogen replacing the petroleum fuel that is used in most vehicles
Hi, could you give me your email adress, and if there is one, the company's web page?
Thanks.
Hi Elton,
You can buy the components shown in the video, including bipolar plates. To do so, you should contact us through our website, at the contact section. You can refer to this video and ask for Paul. He will deal with your demand. Kind regards.
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Ppp000p0looooppopopop 0plp0opppppl0l0pllp Lo people
Это топливная ячейка?
Very good video. Berkwood Resources Ltd. has the graphite that may be used for the plates!
Hi Nicholas,
thanks for watching the video. Catalyst used in our fuel cell is platinum, quite common for PEM fuel cell type. We do sell practical fuel cells that can be used in remote control vehicles, bicycles, small portable gensets and so on... please have a look at our company's web site. You can find them there.
How is the platinum catalyst applied? Is it deposited on the membrane, or on the Anode (hydrogen) electrode? If on the membrane, the membrane would not have symmetric construction. Is the Pt impregnated in the membrane? Thanks.
Hi Daniel, air breathing design works quite well for PEM fuel cell type. Water management is a challenge though, as the air flow through the FC is high. The FC tends to dry. However this can be solved with suitable gas diffusion layers applied to electrodes (thick and hydrophobic to maintain water within the electrolyte). No scientific publication has been made by Pragma Industries on this work.
How mutch a unit This
The stack is fine ..i love to see you explain the current collector and maybe it would be great to hook it up very nice run a generator and pack gas..watts. Real fast he is..
exactly what i was looking for.
Thanks for the detailed explanation
Hi, Pragma Industries,
Could you kindly provide information about the electrolyte pads?
What is the electrolyte pads made of and what is the life span of them?
Hi, I was wondering if you guys design and manufacture the fuel cell components in house?
It is a graphite compound. It is electrically conductive and chemically inert as well as being a good barrier to hydrogen to avoid cross over.
thank you, it is very useful!
Can this fuel cell stack be used for Vanadium Redox Flow Battery setup?
Hello sir, may you use pt coated titanium porous material in pem fuel cell?
amigo , gstaria de saber mais sobre a celula de combustivel a etanol , se uma maneira de fabrica la no brasil , muito obrigado .
@mrtla69 Had a look at the "Hydrogen Car Fender 2012". Great initiative and thanks for inviting to join. However, currently, I'm more into putting a few thousands back into the French economy ;-)
@greatimescomunity If we talk about the PEM fuel cell family type, the one presented in the video, there are a few key materials.
- the electrolyte is made of a polymer film having the property of carrying hydrogen protons.
- catalyst of the reaction is platinum in nanometer-size particles and is used at electrodes
More details at Pragma Industries' website. Look for the "fuel cell explained" link at the bottom of the home page. Not enough characters available here to give a detailed answer.
what the size of the bolt you use for the fuel cell? is it M10 or the other? thanks
¡great! so, the air breathing design works well?
If we consider PEM Electrolyzer; whether bipolar plates are in direct contact & hence complete circuit or circuit is completed by H+ ions generated at PEM?
@roshan21031988 Compression plates are machined from an aluminum bloc. Physical properties: look at properties of AU4G or 2017 aluminum type.
good instructive video. thanks
it would be further useful to demo a state of the art FC design.
¡great! so, the air breathing design works well?, can you post the name of the paper and the journal that you published of your work?
hello sir ,which type of material r using to made up mambrane ..???
Hi guys, where at this model was the platinum? Was it blended with grafite?
If I want to put my own prepared nanomaterials on the Gas diffusion layer, how to do that??
Is this the same fuel cell used in Toyota mirai cars? If yes could you please tell me the weight of the components. I am doing my dissertation on fuel cell cars and this video helped me a lot.
Hello it is too benefit for us and future... but i wonder what are the plates materials made of...
Thanks for the demonstration. Where can I buy proton exchange membranes?
Hello sir, have you ever used titanium sintered materials?
which is the material of the dark sides where there are cooling channels and those for hydrogen?
Thanks
What material is the current collector made of?
great video really.
do you explain me how to make this?
Can I purchase the bipolar plates you are using in this video for academic research and if so how can l go about it?
Just one thing, the gaskets are interesting, this method to set the gaskets may avoid problems with leaks, i'm working with DEFC, and i would like to know what material the gaskets are made, i mean the type of silicon.
Thanks a lot.
Hi what is the opperating temperature of that PEMFC? I did not see any air channel. Is it air breathing (ambiant pressure) or is the air supply pressurised.
Nice work man :D
Thank you
i jus wanted to know the properties of the compression plate and if it is manufactured by casting or some other process??
Why are the channels in the bipolar plates serpentine? Why are they not straight channels with straight collection manifolds on each end?
What is the current collector made of ?
hi Friend, what material is the black plate? thank you
Nice video m8 where can I buy one I need it for my dissertaion?
Hello guys, I just realized that all comments were pending my approval for a while!!! Sorry about that. They are now all published and I'll answer all. Thanks for watching.
hello sir .. how to make PEM membrane fuel cell ??
Your video was so cool to me but I didn't understand some details. Could you please give me some file instruction? Thank you :)
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that these plates poses majical properties allowing them to work on hydrogen. Am I right?
Thanks for sharing
Como faço para comprar esse material
Hi!! I'm istia from indonesia. I'm a college student and i'm really interested with this video. By the Way, I wanna ask, how about multi stack direct ethanol fuel cell?? how the second MEA can react to the ethanol?? Would you mind to explain me?
Thank you
Hello you should make the fuel stack out of graphene. Then you can see how much better performance it would give
Hi - what type of material are you using for the MEA subgasket? Is it a plastic?
PET type
In this type of experimental cell, it appears that the graphite plates are the actual conductive Anode and Cathode for each cell, right? Then the gold colored metal Anode and Cathode plates are the "final" contact plates for the entire stack? If this is true, then are the gaskets (o-rings) between the plates also conductive? (or is the stack compressed enough to cause intimate contact between adjacent graphite plates?)
The PEM membrane... this is considered the "electrolyte"... but it is a non-chemically reactive film, but simply a material that's "porous" to the hydrogen ions, but insulates the electrons?
What is the process that causes the ion to leave the hydrogen molecule? Isn't it a catalytic process? If so, where does the Platinum catalyst come into play? Are there nano-scale platinum particles embedded into the surface of the graphite plates in the gas distribution channels? Is this the process that's exothermic, or is it the recombination of O2 and the Hydrogen ions that gives off heat? (or both?) Do both Anode and Cathode undergo heating?
(I'm just trying to piece together "bits and pieces" of information I've gathered from various sources.)
Is there any advantage to using pure O2 as the oxidizer, instead of atmospheric "air" - which is very diluted? (such as less damage to the PEM or the Anode/Cathodes)
Also, what would happen if the H2 supply had small amounts of O2 as well... would the O2 be discharged as part of the H2 "exhaust" (outlet) stream? ... or would the presence of O2 inhibit the stripping of the Hydrogen ions?
What is the typical single-pass H2 conversion efficiency? Would this efficiency be increased if the oxidizer were O2, not "air"?
I think your question was too revealing to their bullshit scam, that's why you didn't get a response.
@azizeqab Hello, you can buy one from Pragma Industries. We ship anywhere. Have a look at the website, all contact information is in there
Nice video, Have you experiment short circuit problems when you stack the cells one to another? I saw that the cells do not have a separator.
I think that's on purpose. If I remember correctly, a single layer only produces about 0.7 volts. Stacking them ontop of eachother like that effectively puts them in series, so the total voltage goes up by 0.7 volts for each layer, in a perfect world.
Don't quote me on that though, I'm still learning
I need more details of this product and the price please
Hi what's the purpose for the transparent layer wrapping the MEA?
The MEA is very thin, below 20 microns and is subject to dimensional variations due to water absorption/desorption. The subgaket is used to maintain external dimensions stable and also to ease handling when assembling the stack.
Is this a PAFC a HTPEM or a PEMFC?
So does it produce and then consume the hydrogen to make electricity?
Thanks alot.
what is the material used in PROTON EXCHANGE MEMBRANE(PEM)?
most likely nafion
Can an SOFC fuel cell use liquid petroleum gas or butane or methane as fuel ?
How much does a testing stack such as in the video cost ?
Could you theoretically power a house with many stacks, and would it be reasonable and pragmatic (price and implementation) ?
Yes, an SOFC can used carbonated fuels.
A fuel cell like the one in this video will cost a few thousand $ as it is a lab equipment designed with specific R&D features, not a few cell designed for industrial use, so it's not cost optimized.
You can power your house with fuel cells. Definitely. Is it pragmatic? It all depends from where you live (access to grid, local energy cost, size of your house...). A few solutions already exist out-of-the-shelf, like the enefarm enefield.eu
Pragma Industries in the Title you say you "explained" it. No. You disabled and reasembled it again.
Fuel goes in here, ...
Does it burn?
How is it converted?
Does it produce exhause gases?
Can you describe the effect that takes place inside?
Because for me this looks odd and I can't imagine how it should work
James Larminie, Andrew Dicks, Fuel Cell Systems Explained, Second Edition, Wiley, 2003 ISBN: 0-470-84857-X
It's a good start.
@romanandriyuk You can buy them directly from Pragma Industries, you'll find a contact link on the website
Hi how do u get intouch with you?
how much would a stack like that cost?
Thanks
What is the price of this FC?
since electrons can't pass the mea, how do the electrons in a second cell get back to the current collector?
Karine Natani Lupatini
Hi Karine, in a fuel cell, electrons will move in opposite direction to the H+ ions. For example, let's start at cell N in the middle of the stack. H+ ions will migrate through the electrolyte of the cell N, from the anode to the cathode side of the membrane. Electrons will migrate from the anode of the cell N, to the cathode of cell N-1 through the conductive bipolar plate. So if will look again at what's happening at cathode side of cell N, we get H+ ions form anode N, oxygen and electrons arriving from cell N+1 = H20. Is that a little bit clearer ?
+Pragma Industries, But are not conductive bipolar plates seperated with the MEA? so how are the electrons getting transferred between those plates?
Electrons take the shortest path. I believe since they cannot pass through the MEA they are forced to go from the negative outer plate through whatever motor you are using and back to the positive plate on the other side of the fuel cell.
Thank you! That's exactly what I have been trying to understand!
Karine Natani Lupatini liquid!!
I thought that heat helps the chemical reaction process. So why are you cooling it and where are you putting this heat so that it's not wasteful?
sorry, but can I get a drawing 2D of this fuel cell
PODRI YO ASER FUNCIONAR UN BEICULA DE NAFTA A SOLO HIDROGENO SOY DE ARGENTINA BUENOS AIRES DESDE YA GRACIAS X TU RESPUESTA
How much kWh it will generates ? One single cell ?
Can I buy one?
I am interested to know what is the highest amperage you created with this cell?
Ted Wiley 160Amp @0.4V/cell is the typical max current when the fuel cell is fed with air (1.6 amp per cm² of electrode). you can get more than that if you fall under 0.4V/cell but its not very practical and not recommended for the FC health. Another option is to feed the FC with pure hydrogen. In this case, currents reach a whole new level...
@@PragmaIndustries Excuse me for asking a daft question, however, How do you get current from each cell to the current collector?
@@piprichards5616 Those graphite plates with all those little grooves (channels) are conductive and they reach 0.4v / cell as they deliver gasses via those grooves and make direct contact with the MEAs. Since the graphite cell plates are back-to-back, they are electrically in series, like batteries. So the 7-cell stack he made would be 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 = 2.8V delivered to the current collector plates on the ends.
Do you need assemblers
@greekman3000 Depends on what you need. it starts at a few hundred dollars to plenty of thousands... Contact us for pricing from Pragma Industries website
how many cells do we need to operate a plant ?
Size matters , I guess
How can I get ethanol fuel cell and how much ???
@raniisc14 I agree. However, I'm not sure to be ready to make public all the secrets behind the company's state of the art technology... I kinda need to make a living out of it!
BTW, we are also working on plateless and gasketless fuel cell technologies.
@turbanish I take this one for me ;-). Thanks
How much voltage can be generated by 1 cell?
1v
Loving your video. I am somewhat confused as to what you are using for a catalyst though? Do you sell fuel cells designed to be used in product yet or only educational?
MEA's stand for "Membrane electrode assembly". As an assembly of parts, they're comprised of a polymer electrolyte membrane (which conducts the H2 ions), two catalyst layers, and two gas diffusion layers (GDLs). It's highly beneficial to reduce ohmic loses which arise from the layer thicknesses, so the three components are commonly manufactured as one where each layer can be really, really thin (usually
@@bensaxon3829 Hi thanks for jumping in, been waiting 8 years for a response lol. So what are the catalyst layers made out of?
@@nickjunes wow must have been a long 8 years! :). Most non-experimental catalysts (at least for PEM fuel cells) use platinum. I don’t fully understand how the platinum splits the H2 into ions and electrons, but that’s something for you to research!
where i can by components .tell me please
Check on the Internet. Google?
I didn't understood the current collector how it would work it not conencted to inner cell
Why are all these low voltage?
When u make the next video the machine in the background makes too much squealing noise. Could you do it quieter
... shouldn't there be a Sterling cathode (-) plates collecting electrons from the Hydrogen side in-between those blocks later connected in parallel/serial to suit application...copper are oxidizable element...more Non oxidizable plates on the Oxygen/Anode (+) side like copper plated with gold/silver..etc
which membrane material you have used ?
Santosh Mane this is a low temperature PEM-type fuel cell. Electrolyte used (membrane material) is a sulfonated tetrafluorethylene based fluoropolymer from Dupont. Commercial name > NAFION. You can find a lot about it with Wikipedia
Thanks sir
Do you have to heat up the PEM to 80 degree? If the PEM operates at 80 Celcius, why would it need liquid cooling??
the PEM fuel cell will have an efficiency varying around 50%. For 1 Watt of electrical power, the fuel cell will dissipate 1 Watt of heat. A powerful, yet compact fuel cell will easily reach 80°C during operation, and it will need an active cooling not to exceed its ideal operating temperature. Depending on the design, it can be air cooled or liquid cooled.
Thanks! I'm new to PEM. Now I know that cooling system is important to PEM. And there is new membrane that can handle higher temperature
Hi, what part is the catalyst ?
I think the membrane is coated in a thin layer of the catalyst, probably paltinum or something along those lines
Hi. How does the water comes out?
hello,
Water comes out as vapor carried away by air flow at cathodes for the major part. A small portion of water accumulates on anode (hydrogen) side and is evacuated when purging the anodes. in a fuel cell, regular purge of anode sides is required to eliminate water accumulated. Purging anodes means that you vent at ambiant pressure a portion of the hydrogen in the anode circuit.
Thanks. Also how do the electrons pass through the transparent part of the PEM used to support the membrane. Is their a separate way for these? For one cell it goes well. But on a stack don't we have to provide an external connection to join the electrodes for each cell?
Genius
how much will the product 30A 25V? I FOR A QUADCOPTER
how to make the 30A 27v
You should have around 30 PEMs
@ThePip247 No, I'm not Luigi from the "Virtual Barber Shop" video. I had a look at it and found it quite impressive. But I'm not Luigi... sorry for the disappointment, if any. I have to say that one may think that I sound like him. I do. But Luigi has more an Italian accent. Mine is French ;-)
The current collectors placed on both end only. How the electrons will collected from all over the fuel cell