Both of you guys are some of the most underrated instructors on UA-cam world, especially JP. Thank you guys for making things simple and demystify concepts.
Brilliant point right of the gates how one most have building blocks as opposed to the purist jazz approach of how improvised playing must just emerge from the ether. 100% agree with JP; a certified master drum teacher!
Something I think of with this is scatting.. as in the jazz vocal thing or making up cadence. You can get these in your body from singing them and then playing them and then analyzing them write them out record them whatever worksand doing a grid with them..permutations. Another thing you can do is take actual melodies and make them into accents wherever you desire and ghosting the rests or accepting the rests. It's endless. The good thing about real melodies is it's a great way to keep the form and have people be able to follow it.. you can get wilder each chorus or whatever once you can sing it.. Scatting I guess is the old way but improve from my perspective is hearing it internally as you go and putting it out for others to hear your arguments using a coding term.. Hopefully this makes since thanks to both of you fun subject
This is excellent content, as always. I just joined his method and 2 weeks in, it's been a mind blowing thing. Highly recommended to anybody, any level, any style.
I play bass and I've only been playing for about five years but I love it. The thing is I feel I should be learning how to play the drums as well which is the primary reason I've been following channels like yours. You share ideas about drumming in a completely different way. What seems to be most important to you while practicing for instance makes a lot of sense to me. Is your course the right place to start at or is it too advanced. You posted a video stating it's never too late
I’m a drummer who recently picked up acoustic bass hoping it would further inform my drumming. Is that odd? Rather, am I mistaken in viewing it that way?
@@jeshurunabinadab6560I think we can do this. Can I make a suggestion? Scott's Bass Lessons. Please let them know Kensho Falco recommended you check them out. ❤️💥🙏
BTW, pitch matters too. Seems like you guys went to college maybe took some compositions courses. So from that camp they discussed resolutions points cadences etc. If you take a melody any melody what are the most important notes? in Fusion and I guess all the modern music floating around there can be zillions of fast notes in a melody or Riff. Those are pretty much lead up to the most important notes (in our case ghost notes) (semi apex notes) Same with improve and in our case that is done with accents but also pitches of all the different sounds we have. Call and response, sequences, same notes done rhythmically different or the reverse. Same Rhythm with different notes, (drummers notes are surfaces or voices) Another thought i had, listening to you guys
@@8020drummer I dunno 80/20. As someone who does play a pitch based instrument, I think that our lexicon of music education places too much emphasis on harmony and notes...and sees rhythm as an afterthought. Pitch is important, but rhythm shapes the musical statement and creates meaning when we play in time with others. Add groupings of notes, underlying polyrhythms, how rhythm shapes dynamics. That's just thinking of the rhythm bubbling up to the top that explicitly shapes the music, there's a whole world of rhythm that we don't hear that's boiling at the bottom... I think we might have it the other ways around, ralph. That's why I tried to get a lesson with Mr. 8020 a decade ago when I still lived in NYC. By the way, I still have that stupid Garmin and I still have a flip phone ;)
@@8020drummer Accents, dynamics, and the push and pull of the measure. Otherwise, we are applying the rules of harmony randomly. That's why a bunch of people sound like crap applying chord scales to tunes--I was one of them! Rhythm and time frame the notes, I don't think it goes the other way--even for poly meter and metric modulation. Rhythm has to be solid first--that's why we love Basie, James Brown, Bach, insert favorite musician here. There's a lot more depth in rhythm than all harmony combine. We need all three: rhythm, harmony, and melody--but we often exclude rhythm when studying music as a whole. We tried the harmony first model of music pedagogy, when do we do the rhythm first model? When do we explore the depth of rhythm for all instrumentalists the same way we study harmony? Why is rhythm a drummer's club. Worth considering, especially as a music educator.
@pickinstone I'm actually discussing pitch in drummers terms high mid low etc cymbals etc lots of sounds to pick from.. another way to look at accents or something a listener can relate too
I should be looking forward to the full video of you two analysing drumming. I would object to your (20/80) nomenclature of "the clave". Clave is a repeated pattern used in latin music. The more correct name for the phenomena is "musical line" or syncopation like JP says. However I understand your pedagogical reason for using the word Clave. The ability to produce these lines as in a scat-singing is an ability in itself. However the translation of such a line into a given drum-oriented technique, is where I find your instructional videos valuable. One might however also note, that in Jazz-drumming and the jazz-vocabulary the feel of the time and subdivisions are quite different from somerthing "on a 16 note grid". The syncopated lines in jazz-music often consists of a much more varied way of subdividing the pulse, often playing around the beat, over the beat, and thus more like a constant being on the edge of the tangible.
@@christiantangø-p4e search “8020 drummer funk clave” for more explanation on why I use that. I don’t mind language policing but I think it’s misplaced here
My favorite invisible rhythm is 8th note triplets. Holyfckingshit is this thing E V E R Y W H E R E!!!!!! Once you hear it it's impossible not to. It's funny because looking at JP explaining this is like finally understanding and expanding on my natural tendency as a player which is really awesome!
Honestly this channel is 100% shooting for multiple millions of SUBS! Nate you’re becoming the Rick Beato of drum UA-cam channels dude. Keep up the fantastic work 🙌❤💫🚀🧨
it all boils down to whether you can cook up something nutritious and delicious without needing to follow a stale outworn cookie-cutter recipe. it all comes down to having good taste to begin with .
hmmmm that feels a wee bit like a cop out. I think anybody with the desire can learn to channel their ideas better. Does expressing interesting thoughts in Spanish depend on being born with it or learning spanish? Not trying to "go hard", btw. Appreciate the comment either way.
@@jeffpolzin5479 search my name and funk claves. I cover some of the same beats and there’s a transcription. Or, to be fair, I’m sure JP has it in his membership
I see why people think he's a good teacher, for me I hear 0 flow or groove in it, it's stiff over analyzed playing. You want to see real flow/improv go listen Elvin jones. Now that's improv, he's really playing from the heart and soul which is what drums is really about.
You have to initially build the vocabulary from which to flow. It’s learning a language, and after you’ve learned it you forget about all the grammar rules or cases and can just speak.
Without being disrespectful to the content of the video, which I think is valuable, I somewhat agree. The technical side of things is this: Elvin and many other jazz-drummes does not play or improvise on a stiff "grid". It is the extreme mixing of different subdivisions while stille keeping a somewhat steady pulse, which is the organic and fluid way of f.i. Elvins drumming. Still, like Elvin him self has stated: He first learned all the traditional stuff, then he mixed it all up.
I haven’t heard any mention of musical context. What kind of gigs are you doing that call for this? You keep talking about vocabulary. But that makes no sense if you can’t establish the real world use for any of this shit. All I see here is guys exchanging licks. No vale.
@@longfade “I haven’t heard any real world use cases for multiple verb tenses in Spanish. Until you tell me in exactly what situations having a greater range and aptitude with words is useful, estoy afuera”
@@longfade Whoa. You’re a pastor. Aren’t pastors supposed to bring a supportive and gentle attitude? Why are you approaching the situation with such a nasty attitude? The question is how do you improvise while keeping a solid groove going. Surely you see the utility in that..
Both of you guys are some of the most underrated instructors on UA-cam world, especially JP. Thank you guys for making things simple and demystify concepts.
"I feel like you just made this clearer to me than I've ever thought of it" -- a high compliment from a favorite teacher!
Looking forward to the full pod!
Great video y'all! Always blows my mind how different the same drum set can sound when played by different people. Tone is in the hands for sure.
the difference is way bigger in the room. The EAD flattens it out a little.
This is ideas I've worked out too but you've upgraded one or two levels. Lookin forward to practicing today! Thanks for the inspiration.
great video brother!
Brilliant point right of the gates how one most have building blocks as opposed to the purist jazz approach of how improvised playing must just emerge from the ether. 100% agree with JP; a certified master drum teacher!
Thank you for uploading!
Got JB’s new book coming tomorrow. This was a nice jumping ff point to start that. Great video and discussion.
Something I think of with this is scatting.. as in the jazz vocal thing or making up cadence. You can get these in your body from singing them and then playing them and then analyzing them write them out record them whatever worksand doing a grid with them..permutations. Another thing you can do is take actual melodies and make them into accents wherever you desire and ghosting the rests or accepting the rests. It's endless.
The good thing about real melodies is it's a great way to keep the form and have people be able to follow it.. you can get wilder each chorus or whatever once you can sing it..
Scatting I guess is the old way but improve from my perspective is hearing it internally as you go and putting it out for others to hear your arguments using a coding term.. Hopefully this makes since thanks to both of you fun subject
This is gold, thanks!!
This is excellent content, as always. I just joined his method and 2 weeks in, it's been a mind blowing thing. Highly recommended to anybody, any level, any style.
Wowwwww u pranked us on the intro I was ready to sing the drum groove
I play bass and I've only been playing for about five years but I love it. The thing is I feel I should be learning how to play the drums as well which is the primary reason I've been following channels like yours. You share ideas about drumming in a completely different way. What seems to be most important to you while practicing for instance makes a lot of sense to me. Is your course the right place to start at or is it too advanced. You posted a video stating it's never too late
@MechanicsAndCarpentry369 once you play one instrument it's easier to learn others
I’m a drummer who recently picked up acoustic bass hoping it would further inform my drumming. Is that odd? Rather, am I mistaken in viewing it that way?
@@ralphkolarik4115Thank U for the encouragement
@@jeshurunabinadab6560I think we can do this. Can I make a suggestion? Scott's Bass Lessons. Please let them know Kensho Falco recommended you check them out. ❤️💥🙏
BTW, pitch matters too. Seems like you guys went to college maybe took some compositions courses. So from that camp they discussed resolutions points cadences etc. If you take a melody any melody what are the most important notes? in Fusion and I guess all the modern music floating around there can be zillions of fast notes in a melody or Riff. Those are pretty much lead up to the most important notes (in our case ghost notes) (semi apex notes) Same with improve and in our case that is done with accents but also pitches of all the different sounds we have. Call and response, sequences, same notes done rhythmically different or the reverse. Same Rhythm with different notes, (drummers notes are surfaces or voices) Another thought i had, listening to you guys
this is true. To such a degree that syncopation is less important if you have pitch at your disposal. Somewhat less important at first, to hedge.
@@8020drummer I dunno 80/20. As someone who does play a pitch based instrument, I think that our lexicon of music education places too much emphasis on harmony and notes...and sees rhythm as an afterthought.
Pitch is important, but rhythm shapes the musical statement and creates meaning when we play in time with others. Add groupings of notes, underlying polyrhythms, how rhythm shapes dynamics. That's just thinking of the rhythm bubbling up to the top that explicitly shapes the music, there's a whole world of rhythm that we don't hear that's boiling at the bottom... I think we might have it the other ways around, ralph.
That's why I tried to get a lesson with Mr. 8020 a decade ago when I still lived in NYC. By the way, I still have that stupid Garmin and I still have a flip phone ;)
@ how do you know where the groupings begin and end
@@8020drummer Accents, dynamics, and the push and pull of the measure. Otherwise, we are applying the rules of harmony randomly. That's why a bunch of people sound like crap applying chord scales to tunes--I was one of them! Rhythm and time frame the notes, I don't think it goes the other way--even for poly meter and metric modulation. Rhythm has to be solid first--that's why we love Basie, James Brown, Bach, insert favorite musician here.
There's a lot more depth in rhythm than all harmony combine. We need all three: rhythm, harmony, and melody--but we often exclude rhythm when studying music as a whole.
We tried the harmony first model of music pedagogy, when do we do the rhythm first model? When do we explore the depth of rhythm for all instrumentalists the same way we study harmony? Why is rhythm a drummer's club. Worth considering, especially as a music educator.
@pickinstone I'm actually discussing pitch in drummers terms high mid low etc cymbals etc lots of sounds to pick from.. another way to look at accents or something a listener can relate too
Really good video format.. two sides of a concept and the thought process.. more! :)
I love this channel. That’s all for now.
Great video!
Good morning thank you.
I should be looking forward to the full video of you two analysing drumming. I would object to your (20/80) nomenclature of "the clave". Clave is a repeated pattern used in latin music. The more correct name for the phenomena is "musical line" or syncopation like JP says. However I understand your pedagogical reason for using the word Clave.
The ability to produce these lines as in a scat-singing is an ability in itself. However the translation of such a line into a given drum-oriented technique, is where I find your instructional videos valuable.
One might however also note, that in Jazz-drumming and the jazz-vocabulary the feel of the time and subdivisions are quite different from somerthing "on a 16 note grid". The syncopated lines in jazz-music often consists of a much more varied way of subdividing the pulse, often playing around the beat, over the beat, and thus more like a constant being on the edge of the tangible.
@@christiantangø-p4e search “8020 drummer funk clave” for more explanation on why I use that. I don’t mind language policing but I think it’s misplaced here
I’m exclusively going to think about the drums in Pokemon terms from now on
My favorite invisible rhythm is 8th note triplets. Holyfckingshit is this thing E V E R Y W H E R E!!!!!! Once you hear it it's impossible not to. It's funny because looking at JP explaining this is like finally understanding and expanding on my natural tendency as a player which is really awesome!
this is that nerdy shit i like
Honestly this channel is 100% shooting for multiple millions of SUBS! Nate you’re becoming the Rick Beato of drum UA-cam channels dude. Keep up the fantastic work 🙌❤💫🚀🧨
it all boils down to whether you can cook up something nutritious and delicious without needing to follow a stale outworn cookie-cutter recipe. it all comes down to having good taste to begin with .
hmmmm that feels a wee bit like a cop out. I think anybody with the desire can learn to channel their ideas better. Does expressing interesting thoughts in Spanish depend on being born with it or learning spanish? Not trying to "go hard", btw. Appreciate the comment either way.
So basically:
methodically challenge yourself when you practise, keep it simple when you improvise?
красавчики.
Does anyone have a transcription for one of the 16 invisible rhythms? I can’t really figure out what he’s doing
@@jeffpolzin5479 search my name and funk claves. I cover some of the same beats and there’s a transcription. Or, to be fair, I’m sure JP has it in his membership
Wikipedia has an article on ‘cinqillo’
I’ve bought 40 different drum book and there’s not much new from these
seems the most elusive, hard to get to, type of drumming that 'gospel' stuff. what the?
I see why people think he's a good teacher, for me I hear 0 flow or groove in it, it's stiff over analyzed playing. You want to see real flow/improv go listen Elvin jones. Now that's improv, he's really playing from the heart and soul which is what drums is really about.
@@Mikeedoodee whoa
You have to initially build the vocabulary from which to flow. It’s learning a language, and after you’ve learned it you forget about all the grammar rules or cases and can just speak.
@ I don’t know if this is supposed to be a defense of JP or to agree with the original commenter, but I think both JP and I would agree with this
Without being disrespectful to the content of the video, which I think is valuable, I somewhat agree. The technical side of things is this: Elvin and many other jazz-drummes does not play or improvise on a stiff "grid". It is the extreme mixing of different subdivisions while stille keeping a somewhat steady pulse, which is the organic and fluid way of f.i. Elvins drumming. Still, like Elvin him self has stated: He first learned all the traditional stuff, then he mixed it all up.
@@a5dr3 could not agree more - common sense, right?
I haven’t heard any mention of musical context. What kind of gigs are you doing that call for this? You keep talking about vocabulary. But that makes no sense if you can’t establish the real world use for any of this shit. All I see here is guys exchanging licks. No vale.
@@longfade “I haven’t heard any real world use cases for multiple verb tenses in Spanish. Until you tell me in exactly what situations having a greater range and aptitude with words is useful, estoy afuera”
@@longfade Whoa. You’re a pastor. Aren’t pastors supposed to bring a supportive and gentle attitude? Why are you approaching the situation with such a nasty attitude?
The question is how do you improvise while keeping a solid groove going. Surely you see the utility in that..