I love listening to Hardleg because he seems to have a genuine appreciation of a lot of this game's stuff. REally good choice to just have a casual conversation.
So every shifter deck? Every time i hear Stevie Blunder go "just side Lancea" or some shit whenever people complain about Shifter, i feel like i'm losing brain cells. Like, there's a reason Shifter blindsides the meta. You can only side so much cards, and to run a ton of cards to stop 1 non-engine piece is such a wild concept. Like, is Shifter just our Maxx C? A card you HAVE to run outs for like Called By and Crossout in order to play through it? That only really works I think in a tight meta.
@@four-en-teeif you’re not respecting shifter when deckbuilding then idk what to tell you. In no way am I defending the card (Konami just ban it pls) and I’m very aware that there aren’t many non-shifter decks capable of consistently winning games under it, but you need to have something resembling a plan. Snake Eye have a basic combo to end on IP + temple - it’s lackluster, but it’s better than nothing, and you’re making sure your sideboard plan includes non-engine that works under shifter (thrust package + target, handtraps that don’t need to go to grave ie mourner, Jesse sided Fucho into his extra last weekend). Branded ran Dragoon in Kash format, and currently make sure to find space for Dragostapelia (+ occasionally a 2nd merc) in no small part due to it being their best shifter line. If your deck doesn’t have these sort of options, it’s important to prioritise shifter-friendly sidedeck cards - this doesn’t mean “side lancea” but it does mean you need clean swaps for all your maindeck staples that are either low-impact vs the shifter deck or can’t be used at all under the effects of the card.
Farfa's point about some rogue decks being just different ways of making generic boss monsters is something I've always hated in the back of my head but couldn't express. It's so satisfying to have competent boss monsters that you know for the most part only your deck can make, which is why I love decks like RDA, Z-ARC, Ice Barrier (and Galaxy-Eyes).
It's interesting, cuz I think this mostly happens to synchro and to some extent link decks because of how many generic end-board-worthy monsters they have. But then, there's plenty of rogue XYZ decks, and the summoning condition is almost as easy as link/synchro, but you don't really see generic XYZ spam, it's either almost fully archetypal, or serves as situational tech.
@@catanaoni Might be because XYZ monsters make it inherently harder to design combos around them. A lot of the time the materials used for a synchro summon directly contribute into continuing the combo itself. While with XYZ the materials are stuck on the monster a lot of the time.
It's harder to design combos around Xyz. The materials are stuck under the monster instead of going to the grave to extend, and also a lot of Synchro, Link and even Fusion combos are based around climbing/chaining summons from one to the next which you can't really do with Xyz in the same way.
I love HardLeg, he's such a cool and good player. So glad you bring it here and get more people to know this amazing dude! And yeah! i thinks it's pretty cool you just let yourselfs get carried on by the chat and discussion making the video longer and better!
Josh having Hardleg on post-Odd-Eyes and mid-Paleo is one of the most calculated decisons I've ever seen. It's showing someone your favourite movie immediately after having them watch Pixels.
The deckbuilding is the biggest factor in what decks I enjoy playing. If the deck has a ton of really interesting builds all looking to do slightly different things then I find myself way more interested in sticking with it for the long term
This and the last episode are 100% two of fav in this series! Excellent discussions with fun guests and insightful looks into the dif aspects of the game
In terms of podcast length, I'm happy to listen to it in parts so the longer the better really, as long as there's interesting questions to answer and you guys want to keep going, make it as long as you want! 😊
Nice to finally see Hardleg here! I love that he is both known for playing rogue decks and also campaigning against maxx c, nothing hurts those decks more than the bug. My favorite example is libromancer, that deck doesn't do anything crazy, but has to summon 10 times to do anything and has no plan B. Same thing with Ghoti, if you get hit with maxx c in the opponents turn now you have to give the opponent a lot of cards or just lose immediately. BTW, please invite distant coder to talk about interesting rulings and judging Yugioh matches, that would be another interesting perspective for the podcast.
As someone who plays Nouvelles religiously at this point and hitting masters with it and winning locals. i know it cannot top YCS but hell it would in a good day top nationals at least and for me that would be already exceeding expectations :D i just love the theme of the deck and it has at the moment really good snake-eyes and tenpai matchups is amazing
@@Wuhdacatdoinive had also much success with a foie shuffling on chain to disrupt their plays. And poeltis and foie having both "any monster" clause has been sooooo goooood. Currently trying to get the cards as max rarity french and sewing cosplay to match the theme.
Did you know: You can Summon Barrier Statue of the Abyss in your Draw Phase? U need: Concours de Cuisine this Nouvel Card that can Summon Patissciel and 1 Nouvel Monster plus Gizmek Uka, the Festive Fox of Fecundity? When Summon: u can search with Gizmek Barrier Statue. :D Dark Lock your opponent has a Monster and als Nouvel are Dark. easy peasy. :D
Underdog is hard to run bc no shop wants to do the footwork of making a list themselves and most olayers are too lazy. It took me weeks of work to make a list that seemed fair and several more weeks to get the shop to schedule it. Finally firing the first event next week and I started before INFO came out.
@@ducky36F I got a bunch of guys to commit to showing up to the first few weeks. My ots usually runs 3 days for Yu-Gi-Oh a week so we're just replacing one of those days with underdog. Hopefully when my 8-12 show up they can pimp it on their socials and get a few more to come, I got the owner to throw in some extra prizing to celebrate a bit too
Its funny you say that, we run our heart of the underdog similar to last card standing, we started with the base format and we've been evolving the list since based on tops, we run 2 events a month and have been releasing a list every 2 months, we've been running it for nearly 2 years and we're currently in a good spot where one of the strongest decks in the format is salamangreat, post support alongside Memento which can't play fiendsmith due to the hits. And when I say they're the best decks, they both had two people top with them 😂, we seem to have reached a pretty good place
@@blackmanta66 Unfortunately I took a break from playing for the last month or so and the format died. Tried to pass the torch to another player and sent him my spreadsheet with data. All he had to do was update it with the winning deck each week but I guess people stopped showing up shortly after I did. Maybe I'll try to revive it when I start playing again but for now I don't have the mental capacity to deal with the state of modern Yu-Gi-Oh and compete the way I like to while tenpai, fuwalos and shifter exist.
1:09:28 - Lightsworn from 2016 to the banning of Grass was so wild. It goes from Shaddollsworn to Clown Blade to Dinosworn to just all of those slapped on top of each other. Brilliant Fusion Lightsworn Shaddoll Dino was so much fun in early MR4.
Grass Lightsworn Shaddoll is one of my favorite decks of all time, it's the very first deck I built on Master Duel's launch when I saw Grass was at 3. It's also a big part of why I found (and still find) Tearlaments so fun, since Tearlaments is mechanically Lightsworn Shaddoll dialed to 11.
on the topic of searching archetype specific cards and then the most important ones have different names: Lunalight as a solo archetype has a way to search a "Lunalight" spell/trap from the deck and then they made the archetype reborn "Luna Light Perfume", so it can not be searched and that makes the deck much more inconsistent and multiple monsters less useful
I'm gonna say we DO need more cards like Fountain in the game today. I'd love to see Konami do more with archetypes that don't have monsters traditionally and don't work on the standard axis of "negate things then OTK".
Longer, more conversational episodes are always appreciated, especially when they are on a topic that can get as deep as you want to get (like this one).
I immediately thought about World Chalice. I played it a bunch back in toss format and it was really complicated to play. I always thought it was positioned pretty good in the meta, and then it got the YCS win :D
@@NJoCaulfield Yes! World Chalice Gameciel turbo is one of my favorite decks of all time. Especially when people discovered that Gameciel had another effect that wasn't once per turn.
1:49:23 I don’t think the gap between meta and rogue has closed, but I think power creep has gotten so insane that now tier 2 and rogue decks can do things that even meta decks just a couple of years ago could only dream of.
Usually played rogue because honestly was more cost effective… but partly due to the fact that I wanted to beat the best deck possible without using it myself. That being said… Tearlament format was my favorite!!
Wish I played the game before the end of it. First time playing at locals and got cooked with my blue eyes deck. Went back Saturday with the same deck and just added cards like silent gy and dimensional barrier omg I had the dude who cooked me again and made bro leave early cause I didn’t let him play the game and he lost to a noob. 😭😭
@@LouDyr1202 brother if playing InvoShadDogma against meta wasn’t the worst decision I could make… I’d be chaining “Schism” to the first Special Summon that you made.
@@CaptianAlvin3645 first irl duel I had was me playing Blue eyes at a YCS. lol was not cool… but are you saying before the end of tear format? It was really fun imo, super skill intensive mirror. And yes the field spell was expensive, but other than that it wasn’t crazy expensive.
1:21:00 One of the main reasons why DDD and Raidraptor are my favourite rogue decks is how their EDs can be and usually are played 100% pure and in archetype. Generaider too, I absolutely love playing because of the strong boss monsters and how it can grind out games really well.
The most fun I’ve had on MD climbing with rogue has to be D/D prior to Spright and Runick release. The amount of optimization, routes and options kept it interesting throughout.
42:45 Been plugging an idea I've had whenever this question comes up An addition to the Forbidden/Limited List: the Exclusive List Cards on the Exclusive List cannot be played if you also include certain other cards/archetypes in your Deck/Extra Deck. It targets certain card combos/synergies that make a certain card oppressive when they would otherwise be quite tame. For example, Rhongomyniad can be legal if you don't also play Six Sams, Phantom Knights, Gossip Shadow, or Numbers Evail. Baronne can be legal if you don't play Synchrons, Centur-Ions, or Wakaushi. This way, rogue archetypes don't suffer the sins of outside archetypes abusing these rogue decks' boss monsters.
1:47:36 Yeah I dont know what that patreon member is on about. Used to be able to climb Master Duel with Blind second Mekk-Knights and win a lot of games into diamond. Now a lot of decks dont have boards that i can break with laval golem and a kaiju because they just float when sent to the graveyard.
Since day 1 of playing master duel ive played rikka cos i pulled teardrop as my first UR and the pack was super easy to get everything from with some generic plant support. Ive since added aromage with a planned endboard of teardrop, aromaseraphy jasmine, the aromage link (rosemary iirc) konkon, rikka flurries, and humid winds. Tribute for cost is so fun
Last time I was this early I got yelled at by my partner. Also love Mr. Leg. He's a great choice of guest to bounce off y'all. 2+ hour guest pods are always welcome.
About the rogue classification my takes are: -A rogue deck HAS to have a thoughtful reason to be played in a specific format. For example: even if Phantom Knight is inherently a cohesive archetype if you show up with it in Ishizu Tear where you would expect no GY availability, you're not playing rogue, just a bad deck for this specific format. -"Being able to win vs meta" is not a thoughtful parameter. Especially in MD (bo1, Maxx C) if you have a critical mass of good staples you may do well even if your main engine is trash. That being said, this is how I view tiering: Tier 1: the best perceived decks in the format. Tournament results are crucial for evaluation. They should positively answer the question: "Do I expect this deck to do consistently well against everything I may find if I play optimally and I'm not killed by variance?" -Tier 2: as HL, I do like to make this distinction. I don't want to throw into the rogue purgatory decks which have a realistic shot of topping a ycs. They are decks who need to answer: "Does the surprise factor plus my confidence at playing the deck make up for suboptimal consistency and ceiling?". -Rogue: they follow the previous criterias. They may have a surprisingly good matchup against some tier 1/2 decks while they have some mild issues against others. Of course by running them in a competitive environment you hope to find more good MUs than bad ones which comes with a consistent risk to be killed by variance or incorrect meta takes. To summarize they do answer positively the question: "ok you are a madlad, is it still worth it to bet on this all things considered?" Anything falling under those is just casual, wishing for extremely positive rolls or just not caring that much. Which is understandable, but not from a competitive standpoint.
@@jmurray1110 well yeah that's my main point, anyone may agree or not. In my opinion, people are calling rogue any deck that had even the slightest historical success. It becomes like an everlasting benchmark. Of course we can call anything ever been cohesive as a strategy "rogue", but we are not talking about tiering anymore.
@@ivanmaterazzo2631 personally I think rouge is decks that aren’t suited for the meta but can either scum wins or get really lucky and can sometimes win off meta or counter meta are specifically decks designed to beat certain popular strategies Technically off meta would be rogue in my example but I think the definition needed to be broader
I got second place with dinomorphia this sunday at the stockholm regional,but its hard to play rouge when skill drain is everywhere as well as otk decks with heavy boardbreakers.
Hey love the content just here to tell you guys you forgot your upload to Apple Podcasts which is my main platform form of choice because of work thanks
39:00 Hey, maybe you are really on to something there: Best formats ever: just have the problem cards already banned (resp. set to one) like later actually happend on the ban list. It is as if we could just go back in time and balance the game right at the beginning of each format with the experience and knowledge, that we got from after the format was over. That is actually genius and I'm sure that would make for some great alternative/improved time wiizard formats.
as someone who tries to lab springans and (while doing decent at a local level doesn't mean a whole lot), I think I realized that 3 people who are just okay at the game will never be enough to take springans to the highest level it can be. for example during the brief time people were trying to work with it a year after that format I found a way to make raff to play under nib and still make the stupid good endboards you could get. it was a really simple thing that basically nobody was doing I honestly don't remember why. I would argue even now we are just getting to the point where we can truly say that we are min maxing our boards and even then we literally don't have a good normal for the deck. there is also the factor basically everyone is broke I think we had one top in the format right before SE format and right after unchained. but basically everyone understands that the build was super gimmicky and wouldn't work into even the unoptimized snake eye lists. there is also the problem where if people ever learn how to handtrap against the deck it just dies horribly. there are some MU that are also just hard to win and you forget how one trigger works and you go from winning the game near 100% of the time to 100% losing even if your opponent fucked their endboard and had no idea how to handrap you. it is just sad that the cons of the deck will basically make anybody who wants to play a slightly worse deck but still be competitive would never look at springans. that being said while there are a whole lot of rogue decks that are just FTKs or do what the top deck is doing but less consistent or have nor handtrap room the reason why I like them is they play the game fundamentally different from others. being able to cheat XYZs out and put the mats under them is a crazy payoff for a deck that creates interesting game states. it sadly isn't enough
Its not simply representation which determines whether a rogue deck sees success, but whether or not a rogue deck has a decent match-up spread. There has to be a reason for a large number of people to want to pick up a currently under-represented deck. Like, i'd call Runick for example a "rogue" deck at this point (like, top of rogue or a borderline tier 2 deck). Unlike Labrynth, a tier 1 deck which continues to receive plenty of direct and indirect support, Runick pretty much lives or dies by what floodgates or supplemental engines are good in the format. The outs for playing against Runick also have a lot less overlap with other decks in the room. Probably a better example of a rogue deck with a harder argument for representation (thats still really strong) is Drytron. You'd be hard pressed to play Drytron in a format where Voiceless already exists, is better, is a deck that people side for, and has a lot more representation. So people siding for Voiceless are already basically siding for Drytron by proxy.
I want to say as well that the deck building section of this video is fascinating. I personally like to build bottom up (I may go check out deck lists first to get an idea of what the standard ratios are, but i start with a blank list and use the bottom-up method like HardLeg) because I think it helps me better understand how the deck operates and why the "optimal" ratios either are the way they are or why they could be reduced or expanded as I go about experimenting with my list. Like, if you can make room for more cards without impacting your engine, then thats always great. My biggest tip when looking for tech cards is to just dig around in a card search engine like the one in YGO Omega's deck builder and just search phrases like "this card is sent to the GY;" "banish this card from your GY", etc. and just get an idea of what all options are available to you.
I mean, I get where you're coming from, but runick (stun) has seen waaaay more competitive play than lab lately, so I think it's a bit unfair to consider lab tier 1 (in the TCG at least).
Sorry, bad example i guess. I'm not gonna lie, i havent been following the format a lot right now lol. Aside from that, anti-meta decks always are such a weird edge case in discussions like this. Like, if an anti-meta deck has a similar powered strategy as other rogue decks, but it hard counters the best deck(s) in the room, suddenly it becomes tiered even if its not objectively the best or most consistent deck in the room. Maybe a better example of a rogue deck being great (because Lab and Runick are firmly tier 2 i guess when I think about it) would probably be something like Ritual Beast? Like, i'm sure Ritual Beast would still be good in a more diverse meta, but because its a solid shifter deck in a more tight meta where Shifter shits on a lot of the top decks, its suddenly propelled to tiered status due to that card along with Protos.
Before the hidden info zones destroyed them, Krawlers played Subterror Behemoth Fiendess as it was easy to setup turn 1 with the field spell or in the grind game when the Krawler links did their revive, as well as be able to trigger her Flip trigger with their in archetype Taiyou
Believe 1 of the main issues with trying rogue decks is to always compare or try to emulate generics endboards of historical best decks, instead of actually explore and to work towards the actual philosophy of the deck. My personal experience recently has been working Tistina, and when trying to create multiple disruptions yeah, the deck at the moment it just cant, however when focusing in the idea of just getting to flip your opp field and control from there, it operate masively different, understanding it works better as a boardbreaker deck instead of a create 10 disruptions, you will get better at the game and compete at a reasonable rate. Therefore when trying a unexplore deck, just try to aim at what the deck was build for and not generic endboards that may or may not be able to create.
I want so badly to be able to reliably play Blackwing traps in pure. Control three names, they become handtrap boardwipes. How do you run a functional side AND main disruption to play through meta AND run the badass traps? Edit: shoutout to Hardleg for introducing me to Magikey, sorry about Halq/Auroradon, but it's still fun to play casual. That archetype got me to build Normal Pendulum which is the coolest dino deck around, and put to bed my yugiboomer hatred for pends
I mostly play rouge decks because I for some reason hate playing mirror matches. But sometimes an archetype is cool enough that it outweighs my hatred of playing mirrors like rescue ace for example.
Evil eye is my rouge deck. I’ve been playing for years. I’ve won multiple locals with different builds. Honestly wouldn’t play something else unless I personally liked the deck.
I had been playing plunder patroll for years cuz everytime I invested and built meta it felt like it was hit way too soon so why bother and plunder was surprisingly viable for a long time. But I gave up during rescue ace and started to build snake eye, which I did really well with but I am so ready to go back to plunder patroll, this is not fun, banlist please give me the excuse to go back
I love listening to Hardleg because he seems to have a genuine appreciation of a lot of this game's stuff. REally good choice to just have a casual conversation.
The entire 2 hour podcast was honestly engaging and interesting, definitely want Hardleg back sometime!
How I define a rogue deck: you respect it when you're playing against it, but you do not respect it when you're deckbuilding.
So every shifter deck?
Every time i hear Stevie Blunder go "just side Lancea" or some shit whenever people complain about Shifter, i feel like i'm losing brain cells. Like, there's a reason Shifter blindsides the meta. You can only side so much cards, and to run a ton of cards to stop 1 non-engine piece is such a wild concept.
Like, is Shifter just our Maxx C? A card you HAVE to run outs for like Called By and Crossout in order to play through it? That only really works I think in a tight meta.
@@four-en-teeif you’re not respecting shifter when deckbuilding then idk what to tell you. In no way am I defending the card (Konami just ban it pls) and I’m very aware that there aren’t many non-shifter decks capable of consistently winning games under it, but you need to have something resembling a plan.
Snake Eye have a basic combo to end on IP + temple - it’s lackluster, but it’s better than nothing, and you’re making sure your sideboard plan includes non-engine that works under shifter (thrust package + target, handtraps that don’t need to go to grave ie mourner, Jesse sided Fucho into his extra last weekend). Branded ran Dragoon in Kash format, and currently make sure to find space for Dragostapelia (+ occasionally a 2nd merc) in no small part due to it being their best shifter line. If your deck doesn’t have these sort of options, it’s important to prioritise shifter-friendly sidedeck cards - this doesn’t mean “side lancea” but it does mean you need clean swaps for all your maindeck staples that are either low-impact vs the shifter deck or can’t be used at all under the effects of the card.
@@four-en-tee yeah shifter is like a can of worms. imo, shifter to me is not even a hand trap, that mfer is a hand floodgate.
Sanctifier player spotted ^^
That's not a definition, that's just your personal response when facing one?
Farfa's point about some rogue decks being just different ways of making generic boss monsters is something I've always hated in the back of my head but couldn't express. It's so satisfying to have competent boss monsters that you know for the most part only your deck can make, which is why I love decks like RDA, Z-ARC, Ice Barrier (and Galaxy-Eyes).
Naturia too
I mean Z-ARC is one of those that can go both ways since they don't lock anything
RDA lock to dark, where Ice Barrier lock to water
It's interesting, cuz I think this mostly happens to synchro and to some extent link decks because of how many generic end-board-worthy monsters they have.
But then, there's plenty of rogue XYZ decks, and the summoning condition is almost as easy as link/synchro, but you don't really see generic XYZ spam, it's either almost fully archetypal, or serves as situational tech.
@@catanaoni Might be because XYZ monsters make it inherently harder to design combos around them. A lot of the time the materials used for a synchro summon directly contribute into continuing the combo itself. While with XYZ the materials are stuck on the monster a lot of the time.
It's harder to design combos around Xyz. The materials are stuck under the monster instead of going to the grave to extend, and also a lot of Synchro, Link and even Fusion combos are based around climbing/chaining summons from one to the next which you can't really do with Xyz in the same way.
I love HardLeg, he's such a cool and good player. So glad you bring it here and get more people to know this amazing dude!
And yeah! i thinks it's pretty cool you just let yourselfs get carried on by the chat and discussion making the video longer and better!
Not only is he a great content creator, he’s a good guy too. Gata love Hardleg 🎩
:D
Josh having Hardleg on post-Odd-Eyes and mid-Paleo is one of the most calculated decisons I've ever seen. It's showing someone your favourite movie immediately after having them watch Pixels.
Pac-Man, my son
The deckbuilding is the biggest factor in what decks I enjoy playing. If the deck has a ton of really interesting builds all looking to do slightly different things then I find myself way more interested in sticking with it for the long term
Dragonlink variants are just my absolute favorite to cook with. Hoping the rulers come to 2-3 this next list.
That's why I like Drytron, they can do the jankiest stuff ever.
@@dudono1744two names is the real sandbox mode of Yu-Gi-Oh. Apart from wakaushi pre-hs hits
@@dudono1744 unfortunately is always, summon vanities, or skip the turn or 6 omninegates.
@@Ragnarok540 You forget the bad variants like the pure variant and the Odd-Eyes variant.
I do enjoy the 2 hour format, literally cannot complain about more content
my favourite rogue deck is Nemleria. It's such a unique concept thematically. I adore that eepy lil girl.
I don't think enough people recognize how good of a host both Farfa and Josh are.
They can have the shortcomings with how forward they can be (the Jesse episode was rough) but if the guest is suited to there style they work amazing
@@jmurray1110what happened in Jesse episode
@@kodyplithakis5885 she wasn’t really a presence in the episode Josh and farfa just argued over prizing the entire time she was just drowned out
This and the last episode are 100% two of fav in this series! Excellent discussions with fun guests and insightful looks into the dif aspects of the game
shoutout to all my predap gang still playing the deck even tho it loses to literally any interaction
No time constraints! Yap to ur hearts content
In terms of podcast length, I'm happy to listen to it in parts so the longer the better really, as long as there's interesting questions to answer and you guys want to keep going, make it as long as you want! 😊
Take a shot every time Joe praises Paleo on something, Josh agrees enthusiasyically, and that same praise could be just as well applied to Plant Link.
REALLY GOOD that its past 2 hours. Thank you! Podcasts are amazing for these!
Loved this episode, genuinely didn't even notice it was 2hrs long
Nice to finally see Hardleg here! I love that he is both known for playing rogue decks and also campaigning against maxx c, nothing hurts those decks more than the bug. My favorite example is libromancer, that deck doesn't do anything crazy, but has to summon 10 times to do anything and has no plan B. Same thing with Ghoti, if you get hit with maxx c in the opponents turn now you have to give the opponent a lot of cards or just lose immediately. BTW, please invite distant coder to talk about interesting rulings and judging Yugioh matches, that would be another interesting perspective for the podcast.
As someone who plays Nouvelles religiously at this point and hitting masters with it and winning locals. i know it cannot top YCS but hell it would in a good day top nationals at least and for me that would be already exceeding expectations :D i just love the theme of the deck and it has at the moment really good snake-eyes and tenpai matchups is amazing
Nouvelles is actually so good, omni negate counter trap and baelgrill is nuts
Decklist for master duel please?
@@Wuhdacatdoinive had also much success with a foie shuffling on chain to disrupt their plays. And poeltis and foie having both "any monster" clause has been sooooo goooood. Currently trying to get the cards as max rarity french and sewing cosplay to match the theme.
@@Cosmo102 3x ash blossom
1x Orange light
1x Diviner of the herald
1x Vanity's Ruler
3x Benten
2x buerillabaisse de Nouvelles
1x confiras de Nouvelles
2x Poeltis de Nouvelles
1x Foie glasya de Nouvelles
2x Balameuniere de Nouvelles
1x Baelgrill de Nouvelles
1x HUNGRY BURGER!
3x preparation of rights
3x pre-preparation of rights
3x voici la carte
2x Nouvelles Restaurant
2x Recette de poisson
1x Recette de viande
2x super poly
3x concours de cuisine
3x imperm
1x chef's special recipe
1x Elder Entity N'tss
1x Mudragon
1x Garura
1x starving venom fusion dragon
2x Patissciel couverture
2x herald of the arc light
1x S:P Little knight
1x relinquished anima
1x knightmare phoenix
1x I:P Masquereina
1x Dyna mondo
1x Nephthys the sacred flame
1x Apollousa
Did you know: You can Summon Barrier Statue of the Abyss in your Draw Phase? U need: Concours de Cuisine this Nouvel Card that can Summon Patissciel and 1 Nouvel Monster plus Gizmek Uka, the Festive Fox of Fecundity? When Summon: u can search with Gizmek Barrier Statue. :D Dark Lock your opponent has a Monster and als Nouvel are Dark. easy peasy. :D
All I heard was Josh is going to win a locals with suships. I'm here for that content!
I've been waiting for this! Hell yeah brothers, proud leggo here. 💪 great to see. Love it
Underdog is hard to run bc no shop wants to do the footwork of making a list themselves and most olayers are too lazy. It took me weeks of work to make a list that seemed fair and several more weeks to get the shop to schedule it. Finally firing the first event next week and I started before INFO came out.
The next challenge is getting people to consistently show up. Good luck!
@@ducky36F I got a bunch of guys to commit to showing up to the first few weeks. My ots usually runs 3 days for Yu-Gi-Oh a week so we're just replacing one of those days with underdog. Hopefully when my 8-12 show up they can pimp it on their socials and get a few more to come, I got the owner to throw in some extra prizing to celebrate a bit too
One locals I go to runs them weekly, but the shop has to work with the players to update the banlist somewhat regularly. It's very fun though
Its funny you say that, we run our heart of the underdog similar to last card standing, we started with the base format and we've been evolving the list since based on tops, we run 2 events a month and have been releasing a list every 2 months, we've been running it for nearly 2 years and we're currently in a good spot where one of the strongest decks in the format is salamangreat, post support alongside Memento which can't play fiendsmith due to the hits. And when I say they're the best decks, they both had two people top with them 😂, we seem to have reached a pretty good place
@@blackmanta66 Unfortunately I took a break from playing for the last month or so and the format died. Tried to pass the torch to another player and sent him my spreadsheet with data. All he had to do was update it with the winning deck each week but I guess people stopped showing up shortly after I did. Maybe I'll try to revive it when I start playing again but for now I don't have the mental capacity to deal with the state of modern Yu-Gi-Oh and compete the way I like to while tenpai, fuwalos and shifter exist.
1:09:28 - Lightsworn from 2016 to the banning of Grass was so wild. It goes from Shaddollsworn to Clown Blade to Dinosworn to just all of those slapped on top of each other. Brilliant Fusion Lightsworn Shaddoll Dino was so much fun in early MR4.
Holy shit, someone gets it! I've combined lightsworns with so many other engines along the years. Kinda crazy how versatile the cards are.
Grass Lightsworn Shaddoll is one of my favorite decks of all time, it's the very first deck I built on Master Duel's launch when I saw Grass was at 3. It's also a big part of why I found (and still find) Tearlaments so fun, since Tearlaments is mechanically Lightsworn Shaddoll dialed to 11.
on the topic of searching archetype specific cards and then the most important ones have different names:
Lunalight as a solo archetype has a way to search a "Lunalight" spell/trap from the deck and then they made the archetype reborn "Luna Light Perfume", so it can not be searched and that makes the deck much more inconsistent and multiple monsters less useful
I'm gonna say we DO need more cards like Fountain in the game today. I'd love to see Konami do more with archetypes that don't have monsters traditionally and don't work on the standard axis of "negate things then OTK".
Love long interesting podcasts! Love Hardleg!
Longer = Better❤
I feel like they were having so much fun just talking about random rogue deck situations
I miss what a deck 😭 and deck building challenge they were great 👍
Took a sip of my coffee right at 52:40 and I almost spit it out XD ROFL valid response Josh! Keep up the good work guys!
Hardleg!! We’re getting banger after banger! Happy this is a longer episode.
Longer, more conversational episodes are always appreciated, especially when they are on a topic that can get as deep as you want to get (like this one).
Josh for the next season of chaos draft
Drink every time farfa says et cetera et cetera
I watch this while I eat breakfast, I don't need to get that drunk that early 😂
1:21:45 hearing a German give the most English-speaker sounding pronunciation of Jormungandr is so funny for some reason.
Hard Of The Cast
I immediately thought about World Chalice. I played it a bunch back in toss format and it was really complicated to play. I always thought it was positioned pretty good in the meta, and then it got the YCS win :D
World Chalice with Gamaciel was a ton of fun to play.
@@NJoCaulfield Yes! World Chalice Gameciel turbo is one of my favorite decks of all time. Especially when people discovered that Gameciel had another effect that wasn't once per turn.
1:49:23 I don’t think the gap between meta and rogue has closed, but I think power creep has gotten so insane that now tier 2 and rogue decks can do things that even meta decks just a couple of years ago could only dream of.
Usually played rogue because honestly was more cost effective… but partly due to the fact that I wanted to beat the best deck possible without using it myself.
That being said…
Tearlament format was my favorite!!
Wish I played the game before the end of it. First time playing at locals and got cooked with my blue eyes deck. Went back Saturday with the same deck and just added cards like silent gy and dimensional barrier omg I had the dude who cooked me again and made bro leave early cause I didn’t let him play the game and he lost to a noob. 😭😭
@@CaptianAlvin3645playing with floodgates is kinda cringe though
@@LouDyr1202 brother if playing InvoShadDogma against meta wasn’t the worst decision I could make… I’d be chaining “Schism” to the first Special Summon that you made.
@@CaptianAlvin3645 first irl duel I had was me playing Blue eyes at a YCS. lol was not cool… but are you saying before the end of tear format? It was really fun imo, super skill intensive mirror. And yes the field spell was expensive, but other than that it wasn’t crazy expensive.
Yeah, i agree, gimmick puppet is very cost effective because of rouge doll like you said 🙂
1:21:00 One of the main reasons why DDD and Raidraptor are my favourite rogue decks is how their EDs can be and usually are played 100% pure and in archetype. Generaider too, I absolutely love playing because of the strong boss monsters and how it can grind out games really well.
The most fun I’ve had on MD climbing with rogue has to be D/D prior to Spright and Runick release.
The amount of optimization, routes and options kept it interesting throughout.
PALEO POD LETSGOOOOO
The new ice barrier cards I feel are one of the best examples for rouge decks ,they do something original and it's fun
I saw Memento hardleg and clicked immediately
I don't know who's out there thinking "Man, I love this podcast, but I sure do wish there were less of it.", but I am not that person.
42:45 Been plugging an idea I've had whenever this question comes up
An addition to the Forbidden/Limited List: the Exclusive List
Cards on the Exclusive List cannot be played if you also include certain other cards/archetypes in your Deck/Extra Deck.
It targets certain card combos/synergies that make a certain card oppressive when they would otherwise be quite tame.
For example, Rhongomyniad can be legal if you don't also play Six Sams, Phantom Knights, Gossip Shadow, or Numbers Evail.
Baronne can be legal if you don't play Synchrons, Centur-Ions, or Wakaushi.
This way, rogue archetypes don't suffer the sins of outside archetypes abusing these rogue decks' boss monsters.
I like the 2 plus for guests. Gives them more time to talk
i love hardlegjoe so much. great episode
1:47:36 Yeah I dont know what that patreon member is on about. Used to be able to climb Master Duel with Blind second Mekk-Knights and win a lot of games into diamond. Now a lot of decks dont have boards that i can break with laval golem and a kaiju because they just float when sent to the graveyard.
Hardleg is so based ❤
This is gonna be a good one, Hardleg is awesome
My favourite episode of Hard of the Leg
Since day 1 of playing master duel ive played rikka cos i pulled teardrop as my first UR and the pack was super easy to get everything from with some generic plant support. Ive since added aromage with a planned endboard of teardrop, aromaseraphy jasmine, the aromage link (rosemary iirc) konkon, rikka flurries, and humid winds. Tribute for cost is so fun
Last time I was this early I got yelled at by my partner.
Also love Mr. Leg. He's a great choice of guest to bounce off y'all. 2+ hour guest pods are always welcome.
I consider rogue to be all decks that have the ability to beat the meta 70% of the time going first and 10% of the time going second.
I really enjoy the 2 hr pods!
Great ep loved it!
Hardleg is the best
About the rogue classification my takes are:
-A rogue deck HAS to have a thoughtful reason to be played in a specific format. For example: even if Phantom Knight is inherently a cohesive archetype if you show up with it in Ishizu Tear where you would expect no GY availability, you're not playing rogue, just a bad deck for this specific format.
-"Being able to win vs meta" is not a thoughtful parameter. Especially in MD (bo1, Maxx C) if you have a critical mass of good staples you may do well even if your main engine is trash.
That being said, this is how I view tiering:
Tier 1: the best perceived decks in the format. Tournament results are crucial for evaluation. They should positively answer the question: "Do I expect this deck to do consistently well against everything I may find if I play optimally and I'm not killed by variance?"
-Tier 2: as HL, I do like to make this distinction. I don't want to throw into the rogue purgatory decks which have a realistic shot of topping a ycs. They are decks who need to answer: "Does the surprise factor plus my confidence at playing the deck make up for suboptimal consistency and ceiling?".
-Rogue: they follow the previous criterias. They may have a surprisingly good matchup against some tier 1/2 decks while they have some mild issues against others. Of course by running them in a competitive environment you hope to find more good MUs than bad ones which comes with a consistent risk to be killed by variance or incorrect meta takes. To summarize they do answer positively the question: "ok you are a madlad, is it still worth it to bet on this all things considered?"
Anything falling under those is just casual, wishing for extremely positive rolls or just not caring that much. Which is understandable, but not from a competitive standpoint.
Your definition of rouge sounds more like a counter meta definition something designed based on the matchup but can crumble if they misjudged the meta
@@jmurray1110 well yeah that's my main point, anyone may agree or not. In my opinion, people are calling rogue any deck that had even the slightest historical success. It becomes like an everlasting benchmark.
Of course we can call anything ever been cohesive as a strategy "rogue", but we are not talking about tiering anymore.
@@ivanmaterazzo2631 personally I think rouge is decks that aren’t suited for the meta but can either scum wins or get really lucky and can sometimes win off meta or counter meta are specifically decks designed to beat certain popular strategies
Technically off meta would be rogue in my example but I think the definition needed to be broader
@@jmurray1110 well it's ok, I prefer Rogue to have a more specific connotation, but many people use the term more widely.
I got second place with dinomorphia this sunday at the stockholm regional,but its hard to play rouge when skill drain is everywhere as well as otk decks with heavy boardbreakers.
Hey love the content just here to tell you guys you forgot your upload to Apple Podcasts which is my main platform form of choice because of work thanks
39:00 Hey, maybe you are really on to something there: Best formats ever: just have the problem cards already banned (resp. set to one) like later actually happend on the ban list. It is as if we could just go back in time and balance the game right at the beginning of each format with the experience and knowledge, that we got from after the format was over. That is actually genius and I'm sure that would make for some great alternative/improved time wiizard formats.
as someone who tries to lab springans and (while doing decent at a local level doesn't mean a whole lot), I think I realized that 3 people who are just okay at the game will never be enough to take springans to the highest level it can be. for example during the brief time people were trying to work with it a year after that format I found a way to make raff to play under nib and still make the stupid good endboards you could get. it was a really simple thing that basically nobody was doing I honestly don't remember why. I would argue even now we are just getting to the point where we can truly say that we are min maxing our boards and even then we literally don't have a good normal for the deck. there is also the factor basically everyone is broke I think we had one top in the format right before SE format and right after unchained. but basically everyone understands that the build was super gimmicky and wouldn't work into even the unoptimized snake eye lists. there is also the problem where if people ever learn how to handtrap against the deck it just dies horribly. there are some MU that are also just hard to win and you forget how one trigger works and you go from winning the game near 100% of the time to 100% losing even if your opponent fucked their endboard and had no idea how to handrap you. it is just sad that the cons of the deck will basically make anybody who wants to play a slightly worse deck but still be competitive would never look at springans. that being said while there are a whole lot of rogue decks that are just FTKs or do what the top deck is doing but less consistent or have nor handtrap room the reason why I like them is they play the game fundamentally different from others. being able to cheat XYZs out and put the mats under them is a crazy payoff for a deck that creates interesting game states. it sadly isn't enough
just 2 paleo and 1 BA enjoyer
Its not simply representation which determines whether a rogue deck sees success, but whether or not a rogue deck has a decent match-up spread. There has to be a reason for a large number of people to want to pick up a currently under-represented deck.
Like, i'd call Runick for example a "rogue" deck at this point (like, top of rogue or a borderline tier 2 deck). Unlike Labrynth, a tier 1 deck which continues to receive plenty of direct and indirect support, Runick pretty much lives or dies by what floodgates or supplemental engines are good in the format.
The outs for playing against Runick also have a lot less overlap with other decks in the room. Probably a better example of a rogue deck with a harder argument for representation (thats still really strong) is Drytron. You'd be hard pressed to play Drytron in a format where Voiceless already exists, is better, is a deck that people side for, and has a lot more representation. So people siding for Voiceless are already basically siding for Drytron by proxy.
I want to say as well that the deck building section of this video is fascinating. I personally like to build bottom up (I may go check out deck lists first to get an idea of what the standard ratios are, but i start with a blank list and use the bottom-up method like HardLeg) because I think it helps me better understand how the deck operates and why the "optimal" ratios either are the way they are or why they could be reduced or expanded as I go about experimenting with my list. Like, if you can make room for more cards without impacting your engine, then thats always great.
My biggest tip when looking for tech cards is to just dig around in a card search engine like the one in YGO Omega's deck builder and just search phrases like "this card is sent to the GY;" "banish this card from your GY", etc. and just get an idea of what all options are available to you.
I mean, I get where you're coming from, but runick (stun) has seen waaaay more competitive play than lab lately, so I think it's a bit unfair to consider lab tier 1 (in the TCG at least).
Sorry, bad example i guess. I'm not gonna lie, i havent been following the format a lot right now lol.
Aside from that, anti-meta decks always are such a weird edge case in discussions like this. Like, if an anti-meta deck has a similar powered strategy as other rogue decks, but it hard counters the best deck(s) in the room, suddenly it becomes tiered even if its not objectively the best or most consistent deck in the room. Maybe a better example of a rogue deck being great (because Lab and Runick are firmly tier 2 i guess when I think about it) would probably be something like Ritual Beast? Like, i'm sure Ritual Beast would still be good in a more diverse meta, but because its a solid shifter deck in a more tight meta where Shifter shits on a lot of the top decks, its suddenly propelled to tiered status due to that card along with Protos.
Hardleg and Josh are the shit 👌
meta: expected to win
rogue: not expected to win against meta decks, but totally can
casual: cant win against meta decks
😅yoooo it's hardleg joe (as if I didn't know)!
Great Episode
The dune reference from Josh was my favorite part of the entire video lol
MADOLCHE MENTIONED 🎉🎉
LONG EPISODES ARE GREAT
Before the hidden info zones destroyed them, Krawlers played Subterror Behemoth Fiendess as it was easy to setup turn 1 with the field spell or in the grind game when the Krawler links did their revive, as well as be able to trigger her Flip trigger with their in archetype Taiyou
Komoney really should errata their whole extra deck line so they can still float
I play 8 years gem knights... I have a unique build and thirsty for support
Absolutely love hardleg
Believe 1 of the main issues with trying rogue decks is to always compare or try to emulate generics endboards of historical best decks, instead of actually explore and to work towards the actual philosophy of the deck. My personal experience recently has been working Tistina, and when trying to create multiple disruptions yeah, the deck at the moment it just cant, however when focusing in the idea of just getting to flip your opp field and control from there, it operate masively different, understanding it works better as a boardbreaker deck instead of a create 10 disruptions, you will get better at the game and compete at a reasonable rate. Therefore when trying a unexplore deck, just try to aim at what the deck was build for and not generic endboards that may or may not be able to create.
I play rogue because the decks that I enjoy just happen to be rogue😅
1:31:27 That was a nerf, now the whole Beetroper board is outed Superpoly.
Where’s the upload to the podcast apps guys ???
36:40 SPEEDROIDS MENTIONED
I would listen to a 3-4 hour one lol
I want so badly to be able to reliably play Blackwing traps in pure. Control three names, they become handtrap boardwipes. How do you run a functional side AND main disruption to play through meta AND run the badass traps?
Edit: shoutout to Hardleg for introducing me to Magikey, sorry about Halq/Auroradon, but it's still fun to play casual. That archetype got me to build Normal Pendulum which is the coolest dino deck around, and put to bed my yugiboomer hatred for pends
I love the 2 plus hours
17:50 challenge accepted
I made my blue eyes deck better by adding a snake eye engine, am I doing it right?
I mostly play rouge decks because I for some reason hate playing mirror matches. But sometimes an archetype is cool enough that it outweighs my hatred of playing mirrors like rescue ace for example.
Evil eye is my rouge deck. I’ve been playing for years. I’ve won multiple locals with different builds. Honestly wouldn’t play something else unless I personally liked the deck.
Can @Hardleg just be a new member to heart of the cast? Fuck man hes so funny and fun to listen to man
Hell yeah, Hardleg!
What I see is Joshua endorsing Farfa being scared of playing x Kanak's BW, but in an apologetic way.
I had been playing plunder patroll for years cuz everytime I invested and built meta it felt like it was hit way too soon so why bother and plunder was surprisingly viable for a long time.
But I gave up during rescue ace and started to build snake eye, which I did really well with but I am so ready to go back to plunder patroll, this is not fun, banlist please give me the excuse to go back
is this episode not in spotify?
Now we've had Mr Leg on the show, I'd love if you'd collab with Rata at some point
Surprising to not hear a conversation about Maxx "C"
Love some hard leg action
I played runic dragonmaid in the master duel xyz synchro fusion festival.
I like long podcasts
Speaking of rogue: DM deserves a DMC retrain
I like making hybrid decks. I put centurions with the new raizeol cards and they have good synergy.