Why not ditch launch as a solved problem they can just purchase as needed and invest their money in the next phase of the space economy. Focus on satellite resupply and repair. On space junk deorbiting as a service. On the next generation of space stations and on pure exploration. Europe has a proud history of exploration and if established competitors can provide launch services at a fraction of the costs they would pay for developing their own, I just don’t see that as a smart investment. It’s more based in European pride than in the smart allocation of resources. 💴
*EESA should work with SpaceX to open space ports throughout Europe. It's going to happen anyways just like how airports started popping up all over the world. All countries that want a space program should work with SpaceX to get their own space ports.*
Great report Kevin! Normally a report so positive would sound like fanbou bias, but SpaceX is SO FAR AHEAD that you're just relaying facts. Nice summary at the end pointing to competition as necessary for the future.
What Elon has that no other rocket company has - a highly motivated workforce feeling they are sitting on the tip of science spear. It is a giddy experience that translates into paying attention to everything they do, a scientific momentum wave that each employee feels personally. There is no chance in any similar situation that those behind can catch up, and under a charismatic leader employees will walk through walls.
LoL I live in Germany where ESA is based ..being Irish and having worked for many US companies with a "can do atitude"" Germany is all about Das ist Verboten or that is forbidden regulation on steroids and crap makes it impossible to do stuff.. Check this typical internet speeds in Germany is ...... 2 mb yep that is right it is one of the worst in the EU ... again due to over regulation and paperwork ... this extends to all industries ... so I would not hold my breath for a "space program" sorry just stating facts feel free to check
Right Rolo, I just watched Ellie in Space interview of former SpaceX engineer and he described the burnout that he did receive while there, just adding ESA engineers and other personnel to the mix will decrease the burden on engineers and employees, even though the ISS is retiring lets not forget the value of their input to. We should not forget it was and always will be the International Space Station. We just need to see that launching rockets should be a combined effort for everyone not just one or two companies.
I am confused by the comment around the 5:40 mark where you said "pay high fees to SpaceX" & "30% more", do you mean 30% more than had they launched on their own rockets OR 30% more than the usual SpaceX fees? I find it stretches incredulity to say they paid 30% more than had they launched on Ariane 6 or Vega C. I get that they have sunk costs for the rocket dev BUT they did not pay for the rocket dev for SpaceX. Even if SpaceX charges them additional fees, I would still think in total the amount per launch would be significantly less since neither ESA rocket is re-usable.
Maybe not Europe, but China is already testing a copy of the Falcon 9 with 9 engines, folding legs and all, along with a capsule that looks just like the Dragon. I am sure they are copying the Raptor engine and the Super Heavy as we speak. They are fielding a 700,000 men space agency and hourly labor rates ~$2.50 for aerospace machinists.
The ESA is another NASA, very bureaucratic and bloated with rules and regulations and environmental headwinds. ESA has its own built in FAA and Environmental Governance Committtees.
It would seem that ESA should contract with SpaceX to build a Starship launch tower at the French Guiana Spaceport. And perhaps to build a Falcon9 launch facility too. Then ESA could concentrate on spacecraft design and construction before SpaceX takes that away too.
This needs further verification but it may be the case. Most of this is from ChatGPT and I did not check the sources. The 30% more is nuanced. SpaceX charges 20% or 30% more for launches where the booster is expended. The price for the two launches were in line with this. Not 30% above the normal launch price. However on the 2nd launch spaceX squeezed more performance out of the booster and managed to recover it. SpaceX completed the contract for less money. I would expect future launches to be at the cost of launches with recovered boosters. I do not speak for SpaceX but this sounds plausible.
We know about China, and now the assessment of ESA, where is ISRO positioned, as it has big ambitions and new bigger rockets in the pipeline, will ISRO surpass ESA, which I i think it will.
They urgently need to abandon cheap expendable rockets, and start developing reusable rockets, the Ariane program became obsolete in 2012, and Ariane 6 should be reusable, but unfortunately, like its predecessor Ariane 5, it is expendabled. The concept of cheap expendabled rockets, a passed stage. Europe, due to the slow development of the Ariane program, will never catch up with SpaceX.
ESA is 10 years behind spacex. When starship is launching payloads they will be 20 years beuind. No way to correct this than to start from the ground up with a new reusable rocket system. Otherwise they’d be better served to just give up on launch and focus efforts on in space activities launched by starship.
Why the preoccupation with competition? How about complimenting other new Tech? Lots if money for everyone if cooperation was adopted. Competition is the reason mankind has so many problems. And it will be our downfall i think.
Minding others business is time less in developing your own. The EU needs to focus on what they can do. Space is not a race but a destination. Space is big and SpaceX wont have it all so EU keep on working on your rockets....
@@soulywoly7070 better in what way ? The idea of trying to reuse or catch rockets has ballooned the cost of the program. And put them way behind China to reach the Moon. It's still far faster and cheaper to just build new ones. Reusing rockets is like SEGA blast processing, it was just nonsense to try and get more money.
@LelandReview reuse has cut the costs for launches by 90% and has enabled way more launches. There's been 195 launches this year so far. Most of them are spacex - more than the rest of the world combined. That's what reuse gets you.
@@jaimimcentire99 It actually costs us more to put a astronaut to the space station with space x then it did with the Russians. And even Elon said the Russians were ripping us off. lol
@LelandReview This is outright falsehood. Cost of per seat from SpaceX is USD 55 million and Soyuz was USD 86 million per seat. Reusability increases cost makes no sense.
@@rudolfdierotnase Why should firms with such low accomplishments be rewarded? For what? Just imagine how much faster we could make big strides if SpaceX had more funding or less paperwork to deal with. Who supported Elon when he put all his money into Tesla and SpaceX? They almost went bankrupt, and nobody gave them any money. My comment may have been a bit extreme, but it’s true. We’re not talking about a children’s race here; we’re talking about humanity exploring space. If you want to support ESA, fine, give them 10 billion. But then give SpaceX 100 billion.
The EU will solve the problem with too much burocracy by applying more of it.
Screw the EU, horrendous institution.
As an European myself, I find this heart-breaking.
10 years ago, ESA was just laughing at space X saying that "it is impossible to reuse rockets"...
Unbeatable, unstopable, amazing
Wow
Why not ditch launch as a solved problem they can just purchase as needed and invest their money in the next phase of the space economy. Focus on satellite resupply and repair. On space junk deorbiting as a service. On the next generation of space stations and on pure exploration. Europe has a proud history of exploration and if established competitors can provide launch services at a fraction of the costs they would pay for developing their own, I just don’t see that as a smart investment. It’s more based in European pride than in the smart allocation of resources. 💴
Europe is a prime example of what Elon warned about with regulations strangling innovation. The chickens have come home to roost.
*EESA should work with SpaceX to open space ports throughout Europe. It's going to happen anyways just like how airports started popping up all over the world. All countries that want a space program should work with SpaceX to get their own space ports.*
Great report Kevin! Normally a report so positive would sound like fanbou bias, but SpaceX is SO FAR AHEAD that you're just relaying facts.
Nice summary at the end pointing to competition as necessary for the future.
Appreciate that, thanks for watching 👍
They always said "If you can't beat them, join them". If you see a better idea, why not be an "adopter" instead of a "whiner"....
What Elon has that no other rocket company has - a highly motivated workforce feeling they are sitting on the tip of science spear. It is a giddy experience that translates into paying attention to everything they do, a scientific momentum wave that each employee feels personally. There is no chance in any similar situation that those behind can catch up, and under a charismatic leader employees will walk through walls.
That was true but I wonder what effects Elon's crazy antics are having on SpaceX workers. Elon isn't the same person he was ten years ago.
SpaceX can launch EU Payloads cheaper than EU Launch vehicles.
Exactly
LoL I live in Germany where ESA is based ..being Irish and having worked for many US companies with a "can do atitude"" Germany is all about Das ist Verboten or that is forbidden regulation on steroids and crap makes it impossible to do stuff.. Check this typical internet speeds in Germany is ...... 2 mb yep that is right it is one of the worst in the EU ... again due to over regulation and paperwork ... this extends to all industries ... so I would not hold my breath for a "space program" sorry just stating facts feel free to check
Unbeatable!!
Well if you can’t beat them join them, do subcontracting work build components to be used in other projects
Right Rolo, I just watched Ellie in Space interview of former SpaceX engineer and he described the burnout that he did receive while there, just adding ESA engineers and other personnel to the mix will decrease the burden on engineers and employees, even though the ISS is retiring lets not forget the value of their input to. We should not forget it was and always will be the International Space Station. We just need to see that launching rockets should be a combined effort for everyone not just one or two companies.
Thanks, Kevin. Great episode.
🚀🚀🚀
Good one Kevin, take a bow!
♥️♥️♥️
I am confused by the comment around the 5:40 mark where you said "pay high fees to SpaceX" & "30% more", do you mean 30% more than had they launched on their own rockets OR 30% more than the usual SpaceX fees? I find it stretches incredulity to say they paid 30% more than had they launched on Ariane 6 or Vega C. I get that they have sunk costs for the rocket dev BUT they did not pay for the rocket dev for SpaceX. Even if SpaceX charges them additional fees, I would still think in total the amount per launch would be significantly less since neither ESA rocket is re-usable.
Maybe not Europe, but China is already testing a copy of the Falcon 9 with 9 engines, folding legs and all, along with a capsule that looks just like the Dragon. I am sure they are copying the Raptor engine and the Super Heavy as we speak. They are fielding a 700,000 men space agency and hourly labor rates ~$2.50 for aerospace machinists.
Europe can again watch America show the World how it's done!
The ESA is another NASA, very bureaucratic and bloated with rules and regulations and environmental headwinds. ESA has its own built in FAA and Environmental Governance Committtees.
Unbeatable🚀
Unbeatable 🚀
🚀🚀🚀
It would seem that ESA should contract with SpaceX to build a Starship launch tower at the French Guiana Spaceport. And perhaps to build a Falcon9 launch facility too. Then ESA could concentrate on spacecraft design and construction before SpaceX takes that away too.
Unbeatable
Ariane 6 was outdated the moment it started!
Great video Kevin 👍
Thanks for watching!
How does the thrust, etc of the Merlin-D compare to the Raptor-3. I know they use different fuels.
Well I guess they'll hav eto join them then! Lots of great scientists in the UK and EU.
Unbeatable😊😊😊
Alguém assistindo??😊😊😊
This needs further verification but it may be the case. Most of this is from ChatGPT and I did not check the sources.
The 30% more is nuanced. SpaceX charges 20% or 30% more for launches where the booster is expended. The price for the two launches were in line with this. Not 30% above the normal launch price. However on the 2nd launch spaceX squeezed more performance out of the booster and managed to recover it. SpaceX completed the contract for less money. I would expect future launches to be at the cost of launches with recovered boosters. I do not speak for SpaceX but this sounds plausible.
But can it do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs?
😂 Unbeatable 🎉
I really don’t gaf what Europe thinks or does
Lol, i didn't know it was a competition. But whatever makes you feel superior
Capitalism vs Socialism. Socialist government has too many restrictions. Hopefully they can work together soon.
It isn’t a feeling
The best rocket in the world is pointless without somewhere for it to go or a purpose
We know about China, and now the assessment of ESA, where is ISRO positioned, as it has big ambitions and new bigger rockets in the pipeline, will ISRO surpass ESA, which I i think it will.
They urgently need to abandon cheap expendable rockets, and start developing reusable rockets, the Ariane program became obsolete in 2012, and Ariane 6 should be reusable, but unfortunately, like its predecessor Ariane 5, it is expendabled. The concept of cheap expendabled rockets, a passed stage. Europe, due to the slow development of the Ariane program, will never catch up with SpaceX.
So it will never beat SpaceX rockets
ESA is 10 years behind spacex. When starship is launching payloads they will be 20 years beuind.
No way to correct this than to start from the ground up with a new reusable rocket system. Otherwise they’d be better served to just give up on launch and focus efforts on in space activities launched by starship.
Every dog has its day.
EU is already insignificant
Why the preoccupation with competition? How about complimenting other new Tech? Lots if money for everyone if cooperation was adopted. Competition is the reason mankind has so many problems. And it will be our downfall i think.
CCP Space will come to rescue The EESA.
The last time Europe was good at launching rockets was ww2
Esa just need to buy start ships from spacex the same thing bull origin and the rest need to do
Minding others business is time less in developing your own. The EU needs to focus on what they can do. Space is not a race but a destination. Space is big and SpaceX wont have it all so EU keep on working on your rockets....
Europe needs to just admit defeat on launch services and focus on building space hardware for revenue.
I think Saturn V plan is still the pinnacle. It could get Men to the Moon without any refueling missions. And it worked.
id say refueling is better than the rocket being incinerated in the atmosphere
@@soulywoly7070 better in what way ? The idea of trying to reuse or catch rockets has ballooned the cost of the program. And put them way behind China to reach the Moon. It's still far faster and cheaper to just build new ones. Reusing rockets is like SEGA blast processing, it was just nonsense to try and get more money.
@LelandReview reuse has cut the costs for launches by 90% and has enabled way more launches. There's been 195 launches this year so far. Most of them are spacex - more than the rest of the world combined. That's what reuse gets you.
@@jaimimcentire99 It actually costs us more to put a astronaut to the space station with space x then it did with the Russians. And even Elon said the Russians were ripping us off. lol
@LelandReview This is outright falsehood. Cost of per seat from
SpaceX is USD 55 million and Soyuz was USD 86 million per seat.
Reusability increases cost makes no sense.
ESA should be dissolved, and all EU money for the space program should be donated to SpaceX.
ESA ist inefficient, but the money shouldn't go to the other side of the pond. Companys like RFA and isar aerospace should be better supported.
@@rudolfdierotnase Why should firms with such low accomplishments be rewarded? For what? Just imagine how much faster we could make big strides if SpaceX had more funding or less paperwork to deal with. Who supported Elon when he put all his money into Tesla and SpaceX? They almost went bankrupt, and nobody gave them any money. My comment may have been a bit extreme, but it’s true. We’re not talking about a children’s race here; we’re talking about humanity exploring space. If you want to support ESA, fine, give them 10 billion. But then give SpaceX 100 billion.
Unbeatable