My Opinion on The Most Controversial Update | Ember Knights v1.5
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Let Me Know Your Thoughts and if You Think the Developers are Doing the Right thing Here by Reverting the Changes.
Also, The Patch that reverted the Changes is Now Out. If You Want to Read the Patch Notes, its Linked Here: store.steampow...
Ember Knights Official Discord Server: / discord
I picked the game up about a week before the update dropped. Played it with a buddy. We slowly got better at the game and were trying to beat it on doom 16 to see the final ending. Before that happened we stumbled upon how silly arlens dice was and nearly beat getting tons of gems. We took a short break and then the game updated. The dice were no longer overpowered. It was still a good skill and we won more so because we knew what to expect from the final boss. While we both agreed that the dice were overpowered compared to other things we had found, it still didn't take away that bad feeling of knowing the strategy you found was gone. We didn't go and complain on forums though. We just laughed about how we could understand why it got nerfed. But we are both im our 30s. Younger kids can't handle good things being taken away from them. The good thing is, anyone who picks up the game now won't have that bad feeling. They'll never even know how broken the dice were, but they'll never get that joy and euphoria we had from seeing a pile of gems liter the floor.
Bro fr we will look back on future players and know they didn’t experience peak dice 😭
Thanks for the Response,
I Completely Agree, Seeing the Power of Something and Having it taken Away 'Sucks', but Balancing is Just Part of the Game. If Something is Over-Powered, I Hope it Gets Nerfed, Even if it Makes the Game Fun for the Time Being.
I Agree New Players will Never Know the Strength of the "Old Skill Upgrades", and its Definitely for the Best.
I agree with you Quirky! I'm a veteran player as in playing since 1.1 or 1.2 or something. But i think the 1.5 update brought skills back in a good position. You don't need ultimate skills or anything to finish a run, i think they maybe should be an award for looping even.
And to add, I'm definitely not a skilled player. I'm happy when my doom+25 runs are working with weapons I don't play often with
Thanks for Commenting,
I Totally Agree, Most of the Skills are Now ("Were", The Newest Patch Reverted some Changes) Back in a Balanced State. I Like Your Idea of Making the Ultimate Upgrades for Skills a Looping Reward. However, there are a Lot of People who Don't Loop, so The Ultimate Upgrades wouldn't be Accessible to them.
@@QuirkyTurtle3 yeah that's the downside of a looping reward. Maybe a mack reward, so you can use one ultimate in A5 and next time in A5 you get your second
Thanks for making this video. I started playing about a month ago and got better very quickly thanks to your videos - particularly the beginner guides and Doom 25 runs. So I'd like to give back by sharing my perspective, even if all it does is to boost your youtube metrics - you deserve it =)
Did you play Project M back when it was being updated? Update 3.5 for PM was similar to this update. Everyone complained that their character was nerfed. Then everyone realized everyone was complaining about their character being nerfed. In other words, the update didn't really make the game worse or harder for anyone - because after all it was a PVP game, so balance was relative. People just don't like nerfs. But because the PM scene was primarily elite players, we figured it out and adapted to it. On top of that, the PM devs gave a satisfactory reason why they did it - in short, balancing OP characters is hard, and balancing more reined-in characters is easier. That helped people understand, and understanding made the nerfs easier to accept.
By comparison, update 1.5 for Ember Knights makes the game harder for everyone, which makes the game worse for new players, and there was no explanation. In the comments, the devs only said the beta testers didn't complain, which is just about the most tone-deaf response they could have made. Even if most beta testers aren't elites like you, they're all going to be among the better players by virtue of caring enough to be beta testers. They're not representative of the general playerbase. It's for this exact reason that the developers of Magic the Gathering go out of their way to get people who don't play the game to test their new products (in addition to beta testers).
Now let me compare this game to Hades. The two follow the same general progression - you unlock power ups and get better at the game by doing runs, until you have a combination of skill and support that enables you to beat the final boss (the first time). That unlocks optional difficulty modifiers that help you farm meta-currency faster, and the cycle repeats. One of the major differences between them, in my opinion, is that Hades has a rich and deep story that both kept me entertained for a hundred hours and took the edge off some of my harsher losses. Ember Knights doesn't do either of those things. The story basically only exists when you start your first run, when you first beat Praxis, and after you beat Praxis 2.
The reason I make this comparison is to say that Ember Knights doesn't do a particularly good job at retaining new players. There's no ongoing story, the gameplay is hard, and the game doesn't teach you how to get better. And as we've learned from AAA games, most players won't play a game long enough to develop mastery. That’s borne out by the Steam achievements for this game - only 40% of players have completed their first run. So most players won't finish this game - especially if you consider Doom 15 to be finishing the game (and I do). So an update that only makes the game harder, only makes the experience worse for most players.
(I'd also quibble that I dislike how this game forced me to unlock relics, diluting the upgrade pool, sometimes with actively bad relics like the one that insta-kills enemies that you're about to kill anyway, when all I wanted was the crit-heal glove so I could finish my first run. Hades does the opposite - you get relics that force the god you want to appear. But that's not a major difference between the two games.)
Now you said in your video that most people started complaining before they had time to test the changes. Of course they did. It doesn't take long to realize "the game is harder and I can't make as much progress as I used to." I personally found out about the update because my friends - who bought the game for me so we could play together - told me they'd played it and it sucked now. So I, as someone not very invested in the game, haven't picked it up since then either. I beat Doom 15 and completed the story, so if my friends don't like the game then there's no real reason for me to keep playing. Speaking as someone who gained some mastery at Project M, I realize it takes time to understand how the nuances of a patch change the game for better and for worse - at the top level. But it took about 2 hours for my friends and I to understand that this was a game we didn't want to play anymore.
And man, what a huge difference it would have make if there were significant buffs together with the nerfs. Then instead of the narrative being "the devs made the game harder", it would be "skills are worse but X is better, so try that out."
I imagine you already know that attracting new players is important to both the developers and content creators like you because it's how they make money. I appreciate that in this video, you tried to help people understand that the game isn't just harder than it used to be (by comparing it to 1.3). But I think you talked about it too much at the top level (where going infinite with dice or snowball invulnerability is a real problem), and not enough at our level - by which I mean the noobs who keep dying because man healing is hard to come across and mistakes are not.
By the way, I don't have any ash invested in a majority of the skills yet. My friends have less. I didn't even know ballista, seek and destroy, or warrior wisps had healing upgrades. So the fact that there was a relatively small number of nerfs to upgrades wasn't even a factor to my playgroup. It was everything else I talked about that got to us - at least that's my take.
One last thing - I just remembered Easy mode exists. Man, this game really steers people away from that by describing it as "for younger players." And not telling people what it does. It obviously didn't help the people who are complaining about the update.
Thanks for Commenting and Giving Such a Detailed Response, I Won't Comment on Everything You Said, but I Did Read Everything.
Your Welcome for All the Guides, They were Extremely Fun to Make, so I'm Glad they Helped You.
I also Dislike the Fact that Your Forced to Unlock Relics, but I Understand Why.
I Totally Agree; If the Developers Made Buffs to Something Just to Offset the Massive Nerfs, the Community Would've Received the Update Much Better. For Example Since they Nerfed Skill Upgrades they Could of Made the Weapons (Except Staff; its WAY to Strong) Stronger in some Way.
Yeah, The Difficulties Don't Say what they Do and They Really Should. Wait it Says "For Younger Players", I Never Knew that. That's Really Interesting.
I Hope You and Your Friends Can Give the Game another Shot at Some Point.
Great video! I totally agree with a lot of the points you brought up. I’m definitely on the losing side of the 1.5 update as well. I think the selector changes were amazing because I actually play tested the experimental patch and tested the new selector changes. Most people, like you said, haven’t played the update for long enough, and most of the players complaining are new players. If the devs want people to ever take their game seriously and have a larger player base, then they have to take the balance and progression of their game loop seriously too. At this point (in my opinion), the devs have shown that they’re extremely incompetent when it comes to game balance and have no clue where to even start.
I personally also play doom 15 always and i dislike the deluxe skill selector because i usually get skills before a1 so i want upgrades a1 so i can focuse on relics but the most disappointing thing with this update was not being able to save multiplayer, like i get that it would be annoying to get everyone you want to play with together just to continue a run, but i would love if that was the case because that is not a problem with my cousins who are practically online 24/7 but other than that i am happy with all the other nerfs.
Thank You for Commenting,
The Fact that the "Save and Quit" Feature Doesn't Work in Multiplayer is Disappointing, but It's Not Totally Out of the Question Either. One of the Devs Said Something Along the Lines of 'Making Saving Work in Multiplayer is Just a Matter of Saving More Information'. Hopefully, they will add it at Some Point.
My only complaint is that the game is way, way too easy. I use the metal staff, crown, and soul siphon maxed out. It's impossible for me to lose. My damage almost one shots the final boss.... I don't even know what was nerfed, but I feel way too powerful.
especially mages seemed to strong. nerfing skills was probably really necessary.
anyone who so far did not "finishi" the game on 15 difficulty is probably annyoed, because how it is much harder to do so.
Thanks for Commenting,
Yeah, Staff is Stronger than the Other Weapons/Classes for 1 Main Reason; Skills are Super Strong. If they Nerf the Skills they Nerf Staff, but By Nerfing Skills the Players Power Level also Drops Overall, Since all Weapons/Classes Use Skills.
I Can Agree that the People that Hadn't Beaten Doom 15 (15 Difficulty) Could be Annoyed, but it Doesn't Mean the Developers had to Revert the System Back to the Old One.
Also, Players will Always Improve, Learn the Attack Patterns, Get Meta-Progression Upgrades, etc.
new player here, im kinda struggling and was wondering if the community had any recommendations for which weapon would give me an edge. tysm
Well in the Current Meta; Staff is the Best, but if you Haven't Beaten the Game Yet, Then Bow is Probably the Easiest.
The Main Tip I Can Give a New Player is to Go Slow and Really Focus on Dodging Attacks. Learning the Enemies Attack Patterns Makes the Game 10x Easier.
@@QuirkyTurtle3 i appreciate this and the content!
I still feel like for Hailstorm all you needed was a cool down for the invulnerability like a 5 second cool down so you can't spam it and be invincible. In reality it just reverted back to what it use to be which was just a skill to freeze, which is fine. As for the rest of the upgrades that got nerfed my only problem is what some people have said. I don't think its a bad update but makes it a bit more difficult for multiplayer and people that aren't good at games but enjoy playing them. I feel like even with the overpowered skills playing doom 16 and enemies hitting harder by the 3rd run the skills don't really do much. The skill upgrades made the skills fun, honestly before this we would just kinda ignore the skills. It was like cool we have them and that's about it, a lot of the damage basically just came from the knight. I think they did make the skills overpowered but it made me actually try and use different skills. Anyways I think the update was fine and I don't think they needed to revert back but it's a business and if your product is going to not only turn away new fans plus some of the current ones you need to reevaluate the situation. I know why this was done and that's what a lot of people that are complaining don't get. If you beat the game and then it becomes effortless to beat the game because of the skills you will stop playing it, that's why they did the skill upgrades to begin with, so people had something new and fun. Then they realized wait it's so easy that people will stop playing. Im sure they weighed out there option and made more sense to try and get more people and keep people playing over giving people a better challenge and a reason to do more.
Thanks for the Comment,
Yeah, The Developers "Killed" Hailstone Armor.
However, I Think it could Still be Good, Just it has to be Used in NEW Ways.
For Example; You can Use the 'Invulnerable' Upgrade as a Reposition Tool.
That’s a tough one (sorry for the incoming wall of text)..
I do get from where you are coming from, but I also understand the backlash. Remember the comment I left on an older video of yours, before the 1.5 patch? Bottom line, too many nerfs and no buffs could land negatively with a lot of players. To be clear, I really didn’t think there would be such a big backlash, and quite frankly, it’s stupidly out of proportion, and I really do feel bad for the devs.
Having stupid op stuff is okay, if it is not only one particular thing of the game mechanics that only makes one style of play op. Staff and skills were so fundamentally op that every other weapon was absolutely not fun anymore. Maybe bow, but once you got the hang of staff, there was just no reason to play other weapons.
Imo, the update would have been received more positively, if the devs would have buffed the other weapons at least a little bit.
And a little bit more internal balance between the items and the weapons (i.e. Supreme Ambition is STILL just epic rarity…). Like, the nerf to Spell in a Bottle was totally legit (rip my sweet child), but I can still krank up Skill Dmg stupidly with SA.
The power spike you refer to with the Skill Upgrade starting in A2 is something where I do get your point of view, but for casual players, this can be frustrating. In my opinion, it doesn’t solve the problem with staff and skills being too strong, it just makes them more random and arguably less fun and also, it doesn’t really amp up other weapons, since they pay the price for it too. However, this could definitely be a new modifier for making runs more difficult.
I’m honestly torn on this. I get the idea for it, but for casual and newer players, this is a little bit unintuitive. And again, staff profits here more than anything with the Orbs.
A solution could be that the first skill selector shouldn’t have upgrades, but after the first, they should. So basically start in the middle of A1 with possible skill upgrades and not just at A2.
And on that note, seriously, remove the orbs as a starting skill, buff them slightly and make it a selection like Cloak & Dagger with Scythe.
Also, the skill nerfs weren’t as bad as people make them out to be.
I do feel sorry for the devs. They give their best and some of the comments on steam were just unnecessary negative.
Thanks for Commenting,
I Agree the Backlash is Stupidly out of Proportion. There Really Shouldn't have Been so Much, so Fast. People were Reading the Patch Notes and getting Mad, instead of Trying the "New" Game Mechanics and Seeing How they Felt.
Amazing Point; Staff and Skills were so Fundamentally OP that Playing any Other Weapon was Pointless.
Yeah, I Agree that if they Buffed the Other Weapons is Some Way People Might have Received the Update Better. Plus, as You Said Supreme Ambition is Still 'BROKEN', and Allows Almost any Skill to Carry the Run.
Fair Point on the Skill Upgrades, The Idea You Suggest Could Work Well.
Making the Arcane Orb/Quasar Orb a Weapon Mod would Definitely Tone Down the Power of the Staff Initially.
The Main Downside I See is the Ultimate Mod Becomes Useless without Using that Mod, so Maybe they Rework the Ultimate Mod as-well.
The changes for a single player perspective are not that bad, but in multiplayer they are a bigger deal cuz not every player will be decent at the game and they need as much help as they can get, I'm good at the game, I can complete a run solo easily, but in multiplayer I haven't gone past the second world multiple times cuz the people I play with are not as good at the game.
Thanks for Commenting,
Fair Enough, but at the End of the Day those Players will Get Better, by Learning the Attack Patterns of Enemies, Getting Meta-Progression Upgrades and More.
I was Once a "Bad" Player, It Took me 20-30 Hours to Beat the Game for the First Time, and that was When there was Only 4 Bosses.
As Long as they Continue to Play the Game they will Improve, Regardless of the Changes.
they killed hailstone armor 😢
Three days late comment here I personally don't care what they do as long it is nothing ground breaking It is a good thing they did that to be honest don't really get why it is a big problem for some people.
Yeah, These Comments on this Video has Really Given Me some Context to Why it was a "Bad" Idea.
However, I Personally Still Think the Ultimate Upgrade and the 2nd Skill Upgrade Should be Acquired Separately.
Is there a button to skip the cutscenes?
Some Cutscenes Can't be skipped. The Skippable ones You can skip by Pressing/Spamming the Spacebar.
En mi caso lei los cambios y no me gustaron asi que no lo actualize por ahora
Thanks for Commenting,
The Choice is Ultimately Yours Whether You Update the Game or Not. The Current Patch did Revert the 'Skill Upgrading' Changes, and Brought Back Some of the Skill Upgrades Power.
Haven't played this game since 1.0 but have been itching to get back to it after all the updates. Such a great game.
Yeah, I Have to Agree it's an Amazing Game.
This was not a good update. I am not sure why the devs try to balance this game because they obviously don't know how to do it. Feels like playing beta because of these crazy updates. The op stuff was ridiculous for sure, but it was also fun playing with the kids. Serious gamers should just wait for Hades 2.
Ember knights is still a good game and I surely have had my moneys worth playing it. I just wont be buying the expansion before I can really trust the devs (and put the automatic switch updates on again).
Thanks for Commenting,
Sadly, I Sort of Agree. They Should of Balanced the Game Better for the version 1.4 Update. Giving the Player Insane Power with Skills was Terrible, as Fun as the Update was there were Too Many "Infinities", or Ways to "Break" the Game.
Fair Enough, We'll Have to See What the DLC Brings to the Table.
Sounds like noobs are upset their game got more ballanced. I wouldnt revert the nerfs for anything if i was the devs