Check out War Thunder and use my link for a free large bonus back with boosters, vehicles, and more: playwt.link/hiddenhistory War Thunder is a highly detailed vehicle combat game containing over 2,500 playable tanks, aircraft, and ships spanning over 100 years of development. Immerse yourself completely in dynamic battles with an unparalleled combination of realism and approachability.
My father was one of the USS Hornet's SBD pilots in VS-8 who was part of the attack on the IJN Mikuma and the Mogami. He was credited with hitting one of these cruisers with his bomb, but they weren't exactly sure exactly which one he hit. For his actions at the Battle of Midway he was awarded his first Distinguished Flying Cross.
My father also flew SBD’s among other naval aircraft during World War II in the south Pacific. These men were the finest America has ever produced. Sure miss my DAD. And I can tell you’re proud of your DAD.
Wow. That's remarkable. The Hornet's squadrons didn't contribute to the main battle (maybe because they'd been consigned to limited duty while the Hornet participated in the Doolittle Raid and didn't get experience.)
@@brianbroadus6857 Hornet was the newest US carrier and its air groups were also new and inexperienced. At Midway most had not seen combat before. My father's first combat mission was on the "Flight to Nowhere" led by Air Group Commander (ACG) Stanhope Ring. Before launching, my father had witnessed an exchange between Ring and Torpedo Squadron 8's (VT-8) Commander John Waldron. Ring, Waldron and the rest of Hornet's squadron commanders were in the pilots' ready room discussing where the Japanese carriers would be found. (It was really more of an argument.) About 20-30 minutes after launch my father's rear gunner saw Waldron's torpedo squadron break away from the rest of Hornet's planes. He asked my father, "Where are they going?" and my father replied "Don't know and we are staying in formation." It turned out that Waldron was right while Ring and the rest of the commanders were wrong as to where the Japanese carriers were. If you know the story of Torpedo 8, Waldron and the rest of his torpedo crews (except Ensign Gay) paid for his accurate assesment with their lives. My father as well as others held a very low opinion of ACG Ring which started when Hornet was on its shake down cruise and he got lost during a training flight. Gus Widhelm had to take over and get the "lost" squadron back to the Hornet. Also, during Hornet's attack on the Mikuma and Mogami, my father said that Ring had "accidentally" released his bomb prematurely and had never engaged in a dive bombing attack on the Japanese cruisers. Later in the war in 1945, my father crossed paths with Ring at the Naval Ordnance Test Station (NOTS) in Inyokern, California. (My father was doing test work of the Tiny Tim and Holy Moses rockets before they were deployed to the fleet.) He saw Ring wearing the Navy Cross and was livid when he was told that Ring was awarded the Navy Cross for his actions at Midway. He put Hornet's failure during the first day of battle at Midway directly on Ring.
The damage to the Mikuma is so catastrophic that one can’t help but pity her unfortunate crew. The conditions on her must’ve been a living hell. I don’t recall seeing a photo of a ship whose topside damage was so profound. War is the ultimate waste of treasure & life.
When You say that the triple 155 mm guns were reassigned to Yamato You should also make it clear that the Triple 18” main battery guns shown in the photo are not the 155 mm guns that became secondary battery guns on the Yamato. Just to make it clear to those of lesser knowledge about the subject.
16:07 In my early teen years, I read an account of this battle and the caption of this photo in the account said the wreckage on the after turret was a Dauntless dive bomber.
Some of the Photographs here have been published in the Iconic must read book “ The Shattered Sword “ every historian should get this book ! It remains the go to book on the midway battle !!
It’s interesting the the submarine Trout rescued 2 survivors from a raft days after the battle. There were also survivors from the Hiryu taken prisoner. I’ve always wondered what happened to those men. Presumably they returned to Japan after the war. They were the lucky ones, although I’m sure they didn’t feel that way at the time!
The thing that this story brings out is that in 1942 the accuracy (poor training) of our dive bombers remained alot to desire. And then in fairness how hard it is to hit any moving ship. How many ships were actually hitt by B17s !
at Midway, zero, if I recall correctly. High level bombing just wasn't good for sinking ships. Not sure if they ever later did low level B 17 raids or if that was a B-25/B-26 thing.
Very difficult to hit a manoeuvring target while the bomber is flying high enough to avoid the AA. In Paul Brickhill's "The Dam Busters", there is a brief account in which some of the 617 Squadron Lancasters tried bombing some German destroyers. They learned quickly how hard it was. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I believe the Germans scored an own goal when one of the ships ran aground while dodging the bombs.
Місяць тому+1
i have a aug 1943 LIFE mag, one of the full page adverts shows "the japanese ship" in the classic photo of sheer wreckage. at the top of the ad is a young american female having a bite from a piece of bread, the caption reads, "bread for you, bombs for tojo" signed allis-chalmers industrial equiptment
It must have been very hard for the Japanese after losing four aircraft carrieros to lose also a heavy cruiser. AS mentioned by Mitsuo Fuchida in his book MIdway, the battle that doomed Japan, discounting the fur carriers lost earlier, Mikuma was the largest naval ship lost till then. Besides the loss of so many of her crew, was a tragedy really. At Midway, the US Navy avenged the loss of life at Pearl Harbor.
These ships for all their flaws proved to be tough and capable of withstanding massive battle damage. The Japanese cruisers were all beautiful ships up until Tone was launched.
Doing Japanese naval history, there is a picture of the rear section of this cruiser. In that picture you will see the wreckage of a SBD on top of turret #4.
and this is how hard it is to sink a good sized ship with just bombs. Imagine trying to sink a battleship. That is why the idea that Spruance should have tried to pursue the Japanese fleet as it fled is so idiotic. With two virtually immobile or slow moving ships and no fighter cover, they still only sank one of them. Without torpedo planes and also working torpedoes, there was nothing more that could have been done. All the carriers were destroyed by basically being burned down to the waterline due to all the aviation fuel and munitions on the carriers.
If ANY of those ship at truk would have gotten hit with a long lance torpedo, spruance would have been done right there. Yes. That was a VERY stupid move considering the SBDs were in the air above them to sink em. When you built a whole house driving 8 penny nails with a 20 oz claw hammer, you DONT switch to a 20lb sledge just do you can get it in the books that YOU did it. Spruance never impressed me like he did others. Mitchner royally screwed the pooch at midway by sending his flights off Hornet to the EMPTY northwest because HE thought there would be more IJN carriers there. Causing the flight to nowhere, removing Hornets bombers from the midway battle. Then lied about it. Mitchner was just lucky Nimitz believed in giving 2nd chances. Because they all knew he lied.
@@johnhallett5846 no clue about browning. Mitchner ignored sending the Hornets SBDs to the spotted cords in the southwest. Mitchner had this personal idea that there would be more IJN carriers up northeest. With NO intelligence whatsoever. I know spruance and Nimitz both knew he lied about it. Who knows, but the IJN could have lost all 4 carriers in 15 minutes had the Hornets SBDs been there. One of the Hornets flights DID go to the correct cords and sank 1 carrier. After the flight commander ignored orders and took his group to the correct coordinates. Very interesting pod cast on "unofficial history of the Pacific war" about the whole midway battle. 3 1/2 years, 400 plus pod cast. These guys told the truth, good, bad & ugly. Probably the best WW2 podcast I've ever listened to.
It's a decent story, but I wish the speaker would liven it up. Try listening to some classic war documentaries and films. Also, you said nothing about the radical change in the stack profile when the boat was re-armed. I felt like it was pictures of two different ships. I made it to 3:52.
Dunno what's "shocking" about this. The ship was engaged with other IJN vessels in the losing battle of Midway; she was sunk a day or so later. I'm not shocked.
There aren't many photos of the four carriers after the attacks but some sketches from first hand accounts depict even more "shocking" damage. Particularly Akagi and Kaga. At least Mikuma still mostly looked like a cruiser. The most shocking thing was colliding with it's sister ship.
One bit of confusion about this - was the belief that one of the American Dive Bomber pilots had crashed his aircraft into Mikuma on purpose. There were two things that caused this mistake. 1) The Dive Bomber had been shot down - and crashed into the water NEAR the Cruiser but not on it. 2) One of Mikuma's own scout aircraft - from the launch platform right next to the stern guns - was blown onto the roof of the next to last stern turret. This all led to people looking at the photograph of Mikiuma, seeing the wrecked aircraft on one of her turrets and believing it was the lost American Dive Bomber. .
The aircraft wreckage is from a tube and canvas airframe and both Fleming's Vindicator and Mikuma's scout aircraft used this construction. My grandfather flew TBDs and Gold starred, Dad flew A-4s and F-4s with two VN cruises. Dad and I have debated for *decades* about Fleming's demise and that Mikuma wreckage. Of course Dad insists it must be from Fleming's Vindicator.
You maybe referring to one of Hornet's dive bombers flown by a young ensign named Don Griswold. During the attack on the June 6th on the Japanese cruisers, he was flying in the number 3 position with Gus Widhelm and my father. When my father pushed over in his SBD, he looked across at Griswold and watched his 1000 pounder drift away. He had inadvertently "pickled" his bomb away in his nervousness. Back on board the Hornet, my father mentioned the premature release of Griswold's bomb to him so it would not happen the next time. Griswold broke into tears. He was almost sorry he had said anything about it. During the second attack which my father was not on, apparently Griswold never pulled out of his dive and did not return. My father had wondered that if he were so intent on making up for the premature release at altitude in the morning flight, that he tried too hard on the second attack and paid for it with his life.
Well, the Japanese lost many cruisers because they failed to jettison their torpedoes when under air attack. Maybe they were really fond of their Longs Lances...which were stored in the open on the decks of the ships. :)
Hopefully you've read my posts about my father and his role as an SBD pilot at Midway. After the war, as a husband and father, he was one of the most tolerant people I've ever know - except when it came to the Japanese. As a world traveler he never wanted to visit Japan. He would only buy American cars. But one memory I have of him was when I bought my first new car which a Datsun 280Z. He looked a me as said "What did you do that for? Those guys tried to kill me!"
So true-- Tamon Yamaguchi's decision to go down with Hiryu is the perfect example of this. One of the rising stars in the IJN who would have been a massive asset after the later death of Yamamoto basically kills himself because of the extreme degree of fatalism and twisted sense of duty that pervaded the Japanese services.
The IJN sank 25 US War Ships in the Guadalcanal campaign which commenced two months after this. They had superior torpedoes and superior night fighting capabilities.
Check out War Thunder and use my link for a free large bonus back with boosters, vehicles, and more: playwt.link/hiddenhistory
War Thunder is a highly detailed vehicle combat game containing over 2,500 playable tanks, aircraft, and ships spanning over 100 years of development. Immerse yourself completely in dynamic battles with an unparalleled combination of realism and approachability.
My father was one of the USS Hornet's SBD pilots in VS-8 who was part of the attack on the IJN Mikuma and the Mogami. He was credited with hitting one of these cruisers with his bomb, but they weren't exactly sure exactly which one he hit. For his actions at the Battle of Midway he was awarded his first Distinguished Flying Cross.
My father also flew SBD’s among other naval aircraft during World War II in the south Pacific. These men were the finest America has ever produced. Sure miss my DAD. And I can tell you’re proud of your DAD.
@@randolphgrohnke3471 I think of my Dad everyday. What squadron was your father in?
Wow. That's remarkable. The Hornet's squadrons didn't contribute to the main battle (maybe because they'd been consigned to limited duty while the Hornet participated in the Doolittle Raid and didn't get experience.)
The pilots dispayed great courage.
@@brianbroadus6857 Hornet was the newest US carrier and its air groups were also new and inexperienced. At Midway most had not seen combat before. My father's first combat mission was on the "Flight to Nowhere" led by Air Group Commander (ACG) Stanhope Ring. Before launching, my father had witnessed an exchange between Ring and Torpedo Squadron 8's (VT-8) Commander John Waldron. Ring, Waldron and the rest of Hornet's squadron commanders were in the pilots' ready room discussing where the Japanese carriers would be found. (It was really more of an argument.) About 20-30 minutes after launch my father's rear gunner saw Waldron's torpedo squadron break away from the rest of Hornet's planes. He asked my father, "Where are they going?" and my father replied "Don't know and we are staying in formation." It turned out that Waldron was right while Ring and the rest of the commanders were wrong as to where the Japanese carriers were. If you know the story of Torpedo 8, Waldron and the rest of his torpedo crews (except Ensign Gay) paid for his accurate assesment with their lives. My father as well as others held a very low opinion of ACG Ring which started when Hornet was on its shake down cruise and he got lost during a training flight. Gus Widhelm had to take over and get the "lost" squadron back to the Hornet. Also, during Hornet's attack on the Mikuma and Mogami, my father said that Ring had "accidentally" released his bomb prematurely and had never engaged in a dive bombing attack on the Japanese cruisers. Later in the war in 1945, my father crossed paths with Ring at the Naval Ordnance Test Station (NOTS) in Inyokern, California. (My father was doing test work of the Tiny Tim and Holy Moses rockets before they were deployed to the fleet.) He saw Ring wearing the Navy Cross and was livid when he was told that Ring was awarded the Navy Cross for his actions at Midway. He put Hornet's failure during the first day of battle at Midway directly on Ring.
Interesting warship story. Thanks for sharing it.
The damage to the Mikuma is so catastrophic that one can’t help but pity her unfortunate crew. The conditions on her must’ve been a living hell. I don’t recall seeing a photo of a ship whose topside damage was so profound. War is the ultimate waste of treasure & life.
Great point! Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
A lesson for ALL of us !
When You say that the triple 155 mm guns were reassigned to Yamato You should also make it clear that the Triple 18” main battery guns shown in the photo are not the 155 mm guns that became secondary battery guns on the Yamato. Just to make it clear to those of lesser knowledge about the subject.
16:07 In my early teen years, I read an account of this battle and the caption of this photo in the account said the wreckage on the after turret was a Dauntless dive bomber.
I’ve read the same thing. Idk if it’s factual. You’d think the velocity of a dive crash would hurl all the aircraft parts off into the sea… idk.
Hmm I’ll have to check that out! Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Some of the Photographs here have been published in the Iconic must read book “ The Shattered Sword “ every historian should get this book ! It remains the go to book on the midway battle !!
More please.Thanks HIDDEN HISTORY.I have watched your subs rise like the changing tide.Its well overdue.
Good to see you now have a sponsor. Another great production, thank you.
It’s interesting the the submarine Trout rescued 2 survivors from a raft days after the battle. There were also survivors from the Hiryu taken prisoner. I’ve always wondered what happened to those men. Presumably they returned to Japan after the war. They were the lucky ones, although I’m sure they didn’t feel that way at the time!
Good question! Appreciate you watching & have a great weekend :)
They went to the prisoner of war camp where they were greeted by Kazuo Sakimaki, the surviving officer of HA.19
More info on the crashed SBD on turret #4. Belongs to captain Flemings, he received the M.O.H.
Brave man! Thanks for watching and have a great rest of your weekend :)
good to see your channel is worthy of being sponsored..much deserved..keep up the great content and research...
12:40 - Wow! What a photograph!!!
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
12:40 ? Not a photograph. (13:07 is.)
@@spikespa5208 So what is 12:40, then?
@@chrislong3938 A very good painting.
Fantastic video and information.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Ships of the day had pretty crazy camouflage paint schemes. Does anyone have info/opinions on how succesful they were?
They were ok. Appreciate you watching & have a great weekend :)
The thing that this story brings out is that in 1942 the accuracy (poor training) of our dive bombers remained alot to desire. And then in fairness how hard it is to hit any moving ship. How many ships were actually hitt by B17s !
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
at Midway, zero, if I recall correctly. High level bombing just wasn't good for sinking ships. Not sure if they ever later did low level B 17 raids or if that was a B-25/B-26 thing.
Very difficult to hit a manoeuvring target while the bomber is flying high enough to avoid the AA. In Paul Brickhill's "The Dam Busters", there is a brief account in which some of the 617 Squadron Lancasters tried bombing some German destroyers. They learned quickly how hard it was. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I believe the Germans scored an own goal when one of the ships ran aground while dodging the bombs.
i have a aug 1943 LIFE mag, one of the full page adverts shows "the japanese ship" in the classic photo of sheer wreckage. at the top of the ad is a young american female having a bite from a piece of bread, the caption reads, "bread for you, bombs for tojo" signed allis-chalmers industrial equiptment
Very very cool! Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
It must have been very hard for the Japanese after losing four aircraft carrieros to lose also a heavy cruiser. AS mentioned by Mitsuo Fuchida in his book MIdway, the battle that doomed Japan, discounting the fur carriers lost earlier, Mikuma was the largest naval ship lost till then. Besides the loss of so many of her crew, was a tragedy really. At Midway, the US Navy avenged the loss of life at Pearl Harbor.
Thanks for watching and have a great rest of your weekend :)
"....must have been very hard...." Probably the safest statement in a comment section ever.
こんなになるまで戦ってくれてありがとう。
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
These ships for all their flaws proved to be tough and capable of withstanding massive battle damage. The Japanese cruisers were all beautiful ships up until Tone was launched.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Doing Japanese naval history, there is a picture of the rear section of this cruiser. In that picture you will see the wreckage of a SBD on top of turret #4.
Yes, in fact, I have seen the picture, regards.
Also shows a boat and crew in the water.
and this is how hard it is to sink a good sized ship with just bombs. Imagine trying to sink a battleship. That is why the idea that Spruance should have tried to pursue the Japanese fleet as it fled is so idiotic. With two virtually immobile or slow moving ships and no fighter cover, they still only sank one of them. Without torpedo planes and also working torpedoes, there was nothing more that could have been done. All the carriers were destroyed by basically being burned down to the waterline due to all the aviation fuel and munitions on the carriers.
Great points. Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
If ANY of those ship at truk would have gotten hit with a long lance torpedo, spruance would have been done right there. Yes. That was a VERY stupid move considering the SBDs were in the air above them to sink em.
When you built a whole house driving 8 penny nails with a 20 oz claw hammer, you DONT switch to a 20lb sledge just do you can get it in the books that YOU did it.
Spruance never impressed me like he did others.
Mitchner royally screwed the pooch at midway by sending his flights off Hornet to the EMPTY northwest because HE thought there would be more IJN carriers there. Causing the flight to nowhere, removing Hornets bombers from the midway battle. Then lied about it.
Mitchner was just lucky Nimitz believed in giving 2nd chances.
Because they all knew he lied.
@@riftraft2015 Myself I wondered if Browning had something to do with the coverup.
@@johnhallett5846 no clue about browning. Mitchner ignored sending the Hornets SBDs to the spotted cords in the southwest. Mitchner had this personal idea that there would be more IJN carriers up northeest. With NO intelligence whatsoever.
I know spruance and Nimitz both knew he lied about it.
Who knows, but the IJN could have lost all 4 carriers in 15 minutes had the Hornets SBDs been there.
One of the Hornets flights DID go to the correct cords and sank 1 carrier. After the flight commander ignored orders and took his group to the correct coordinates.
Very interesting pod cast on "unofficial history of the Pacific war" about the whole midway battle.
3 1/2 years, 400 plus pod cast. These guys told the truth, good, bad & ugly. Probably the best WW2 podcast I've ever listened to.
Great video
It's a decent story, but I wish the speaker would liven it up. Try listening to some classic war documentaries and films. Also, you said nothing about the radical change in the stack profile when the boat was re-armed. I felt like it was pictures of two different ships. I made it to 3:52.
Dunno what's "shocking" about this. The ship was engaged with other IJN vessels in the losing battle of Midway; she was sunk a day or so later. I'm not shocked.
There aren't many photos of the four carriers after the attacks but some sketches from first hand accounts depict even more "shocking" damage. Particularly Akagi and Kaga. At least Mikuma still mostly looked like a cruiser. The most shocking thing was colliding with it's sister ship.
Some crazy names for ships here.
Appreciate you watching & have a great weekend :)
Nice video, you sir, got yourself a subscriber.
PS: nice tp see that you got a sponsor, shame thats Warthunder😂
Why is that a shame it’s War Thunder?! Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
@HiddenHistoryYT 🤣 because the snail (game company that produced it) fugged its players... ive used to play it, years ago.
One bit of confusion about this - was the belief that one of the American Dive Bomber pilots had crashed his aircraft into Mikuma on purpose.
There were two things that caused this mistake.
1) The Dive Bomber had been shot down - and crashed into the water NEAR the Cruiser but not on it.
2) One of Mikuma's own scout aircraft - from the launch platform right next to the stern guns - was blown onto the roof of the next to last stern turret.
This all led to people looking at the photograph of Mikiuma, seeing the wrecked aircraft on one of her turrets and believing it was the lost American Dive Bomber.
.
The aircraft wreckage is from a tube and canvas airframe and both Fleming's Vindicator and Mikuma's scout aircraft used this construction. My grandfather flew TBDs and Gold starred, Dad flew A-4s and F-4s with two VN cruises. Dad and I have debated for *decades* about Fleming's demise and that Mikuma wreckage. Of course Dad insists it must be from Fleming's Vindicator.
You maybe referring to one of Hornet's dive bombers flown by a young ensign named Don Griswold. During the attack on the June 6th on the Japanese cruisers, he was flying in the number 3 position with Gus Widhelm and my father. When my father pushed over in his SBD, he looked across at Griswold and watched his 1000 pounder drift away. He had inadvertently "pickled" his bomb away in his nervousness. Back on board the Hornet, my father mentioned the premature release of Griswold's bomb to him so it would not happen the next time. Griswold broke into tears. He was almost sorry he had said anything about it. During the second attack which my father was not on, apparently Griswold never pulled out of his dive and did not return. My father had wondered that if he were so intent on making up for the premature release at altitude in the morning flight, that he tried too hard on the second attack and paid for it with his life.
This cruiser is often seen in photos magazines but the narrative does not follow, it’s only a detail of midway battle
Well, the Japanese lost many cruisers because they failed to jettison their torpedoes when under air attack. Maybe they were really fond of their Longs Lances...which were stored in the open on the decks of the ships. :)
Thanks for watching & have a great week :)
where do these # come ????
Seems I read, many years ago, a story about a US Marine Vindicator from Midway that crashed into Mikuma? Any truth to that?
I’ve heard that as well. Thanks for watching & have a great week :)
Shocking really.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Fantastico Mikuma.... Respect from Vietnam. Allahu akhbar.
You must be really desperate to take orc money. What will your next sponsor be, iranian Shahed Aviation?
Huh?
👍👍
I LOATHE the Japanese, but I must say their warships,are Sleek,Elegant,Almost like Sports cars!
Appreciate you watching & have a great rest of your week :)
Hopefully you've read my posts about my father and his role as an SBD pilot at Midway. After the war, as a husband and father, he was one of the most tolerant people I've ever know - except when it came to the Japanese. As a world traveler he never wanted to visit Japan. He would only buy American cars. But one memory I have of him was when I bought my first new car which a Datsun 280Z. He looked a me as said "What did you do that for? Those guys tried to kill me!"
Her 🎀 huh?
"baddleship with a baddery"
I quit watching when your embedded War Thunder ad came on.
Thanks
"Hidden"?
Don't like adds
4:22 War Thumper ad ends.
“Remember Pearl Harbor!” was in the minds of the US Navy.
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good AA ? Yer kidding right? The ships Anti Aircraft ability was a utter joke. Even for the time.
What is the logic of sacrificing experienced crews in a sinking ship?
Dumb culture.
So true-- Tamon Yamaguchi's decision to go down with Hiryu is the perfect example of this. One of the rising stars in the IJN who would have been a massive asset after the later death of Yamamoto basically kills himself because of the extreme degree of fatalism and twisted sense of duty that pervaded the Japanese services.
@@chrisstrawn4108 The warped nature that the Bushido code had become pretty much left them no *HONORABLE * by that belief alternative
Mikuma--FAFO victim.
Thanks for watching & have a great week :)
Horrible war.
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Are there nice wars?
🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁1100
Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
The IJN was the worst military outfit of all WW2
Lol, worse than the Italian army? I don't think so.
The IJN sank 25 US War Ships in the Guadalcanal campaign which commenced two months after this. They had superior torpedoes and superior night fighting capabilities.
Great video