Thank you for touching on the Pajdal. I feel like they are the most passed over when it comes to beings in the world. I wish there was more detail on them because I just love the idea of them. Most high fantasy writings just make the elves the guardians of the woods but in this case the made a whole new "race"
Been playing FFXIV since current ARR. FIRST MMO or video game ever. Didn't even know how to hold PS4. Needless to say, lore, gameplay etc was a little overwhelming. I was unable to grasp and understand all the lore. Now, I am watching new FFXIV streamers go through content and light bulbs just keeps on going off. THIS...is great content. wow...BIG LIGHT bulbs just went off. Thank you
The hedge, in druidism and witchcraft, is the term used to often refer to the “fence-line” of sorts between the material world and spiritual one. Hedge Witches are especially adept in crossing and dealing with the other side. My best guess is the Hedge in the Black Shroud is an inner safe zone in which the elementals have the most influence, but it also may act as the physical marker of the area the elementals rule for humans.
You are sort of right. The Hedge is a physical ward that keeps bad things out of the Black Shroud. See; EE1: “Guardians of the Twelveswood and creators of the Hedge - a protective barrier which wards the forest from evil - ..." “Greetings, friend. I am O-App-Pesi, of the conjurers. It is our magic which keeps the Hedge in place, and it is the Hedge which protects us from our enemies without. Still, it is a construct, and so its power is far from boundless. It cannot repel all we would wish. Even as we speak, the hedgetrees sway uneasily amid the creeping darkness. Countless are the Garlean interlopers that steal into the Twelveswood, and countless too are their villainies.” O-App-Pesi: “No need to introduce yourself, I know full well who you are. The ‘hapless adventurer,’ many and more are calling you. I reckon not a single one of the Twelve was watching over you, to have sent you here just when the Hedge was sundered. Ah, forgive me, I suppose an explanation is in order. We conjurers of Gridania use our magic to weave a sort of barrier around the Twelveswood. It is a pact we share with the most ancient of the elementals. They protect our city-state, and in turn we protect them. That is why the Hedge exists. Think of it as a symbol of our friendship. It’s also what you and any other non-native to Gridania have to thank for not being attacked upon entering the forest. At least, you ‘’would’’ have it to thank had you not passed along just as a portion of the Hedge was broken. The greenwrath was upon you the instant you drew near-and it clings to you still. Sorry to say, but you’ve got the stink of woodsin all about you. After all that, you still need to ask if forest elementals truly exist?” Heart of the Hedge: “Hedgetrees play an important role in the forest by helping to maintain the protective barrier which shields the Twelveswood from harm. Should the trees become damaged, the forest would find itself more susceptible to outside danger.” Soileine: “In time, you will learn to open your heart and mind to the elementals - to bond and commune with them. Elementals abound in the Twelveswood around Gridania. Unto them falls the task of protecting the forest. And unto us falls the task of protecting them. To that end, we have laid the Hedge - a magical barrier formed by our order and the elementals that serves to turn away outside evils. Those who would breach it invite our vengeance.” Syro Fulke: “Elder Seedseer Kan-E-Senna has foreseen the coming of a grave danger - a danger which nears the Twelveswood even now. To defend against this threat, we mean to erect an Irmin Hedge - the most powerful barrier known to the conjuring arts. The Irmin Hedge is more potent and far-reaching than the current Hedge. It soars to the heavens above, and pierces deep below the earth...” Et cetera.
You said that the Mun-Tuy Cellars are inhabited by Duskwight, and that they're a good example of a Duskwight settlement, but if you actually go there in-game, it's *only* Gridanian NPCs, and none of them are Duskwights. I dont' think there are any Duskwight settlements in-game except for a couple areas you go to for Fates... to kill them.
*spoiler of job quest alert* I revisited the side quest at 19:50 and the npc said the following: "... As an experimental entity, it is too simple to handle more than one order at a time, so it might be stuck attempting to fulfill my request... I designed it to convey ideas through information-laden aether rather than words, so I'm happy to see the communication was successful. It does seem, however, that this method is ineffective when the recipient of the message is asleep." The Japanese version additionally said if this kind of creature fails to influence the recipients' aether, then it will not be able to communicate. This means the elemental we seen as cruel as today were not designed to handle sophiscated task like managing a whole ecosystem, but rather to perform simple communicative jobs. To be able to communicate through aether rationalized why the elementals can perform green wrath, for they can manipulate creatures by manipulating their aether -- and I think that is why they can and need to make Pajdals to communicate with normal human. It amazed me how much the elementals are deified and served, however, it was originally made to serve. One might say is karma in the sense that human paid for their pride to assume they have a say of what should be created and what should not be. It is sad to see that in the end of tank job quest, we decided to not blame the elementals for the horrible incidents they got people into and chose to still protect and coexist with them. But is there a better way? It is hard to tell if the elementals did more good or more evil, in the end they were just trying to survive just like other creatures in the world. What will happen to the twelves wood if people eventually choose to ditch the elementals? Anyway, personally, I still wish to see a redistribution of power between human and elementals, since it is already the Seventh Astral Era, and other citystates had made their leap. Thank you for making high quality content like this :)
The ancient with the elementals at 19:50 is called Meleagros, and he does have a quest you can do for him, but unfortunately has nothing to do with the elementals in front of him. After you do the quest, his normal clickable dialogue just says: "I am a taxonomist, an artist in the medium of names. It is my job to adorn the flora and fauna of Etheirys─such as these creatures you see here─with names befitting their natural beauty." Which... unfortunately doesn't really tell us anything, lol.
Neat video. Hopefully there will be more info on the Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te in the next one. They have been living in the Twelveswood since at least the fifth umbral era. Everyone seems to forget about them. Would love to get some more lore about their relationship with Gridania and the elementals.
Loved this!! I’ve been so curious about the whole of Gridania for so long :> Just like everyone else, I treasure my character a ton, so getting a vid on the history of my Giraffe was awesome! c: thank you!!
Awesome video as always i would've of they brought back the west shroud heard it was a thing back in 1.0 would be kool to explore if it's and instant area or something like that
You mentioned being curious about it, so If you havent seen it yet, look at the twelve wonders from above. Lets just say the landscape has a very significant shape from a birds eye view.......
So, after shortening this to not be (as much of) a wall of text, I'd like to start by saying I found this video to be a really disappointing take on a subject I'm most passionate about. I'd like to start the post by saying a lot of what is said in this video is correct and there's some interesting, lesser-known lore tidbits you guys touch on; for example, the ruins of Lasthold and the ruins above Gelmorra proper, the separation of Spirithold, the apparently much-needed clarification that no, the Duskwight were not ruled by Voidsent, yes, Galvanth is not a soulflayer, and even touching on Galvanth's spire, as well as the constant clashes of the Ixal and Gelmorrans which instilled an early distrust and hatred for the surface world, if the Elementals literally atomizing people hadn't done that already. I really liked the touch on the implications of moogles and sylphs in the political climate of the Twelveswood. Now. Why do I think this is a disappointing video, then, with so much to praise about it? Well... there are a couple of statements passed off as fact which are just... misleading, or outright wrong. Let's start with the blaring marid in the room; the idea that Duskwight are not actually elezen, but are genetically and culturally a mesh of hyuran and elezen. Now, culturally, yes. Absolutely, there's no arguing that. However, the idea that Duskwight aren't actually elezen and are like, genetically mixed is just a misreading of the actual text. The cited text reads; "Sharing similar roots in the old tongue, Duskwight names closely resemble those of their Wildwood cousins, though after years of enmity between the two clans, any once-shared names have long since been claimed exclusively by one clan or the other. Upon close examination, similarities between Hyuran (Louis, Hilda) and Elezen (Louisoix, Hildie) given names can often be observed. While some scholars attribute this to a common ancestry shared by the two races, such theories have been roundly dismissed by the proud Elezen." (Encyclopedia Eorzea I, Page 083) This does NOT say what is claimed in the video... at all. It instead refers to the elezen and hyur POTENTIALLY having a very distant common ancestor, which the elezen fervently deny. This is NOT a statement that Duskwight are somehow not elezen, or that they're genetically some kind of weird chimera. (Claimed @ 11:00) There's some indicated confusion about how the Elementals came to be worshipped in all cultures, which I find really weird because you touch on the exact reasons without drawing the connections. It's not just a proximity thing, the Elementals have always been considered to be 'Fragments of Nophica', which is why even Amdapor worshipped her and bargained with the Elementals on that ground. And these aren't just ideas that are easily ignored and subsumed; as you point out, to live in the Shroud is to be 'subservient' to the Elementals. Some, and I'm sure the Duskwight would use this analogy, would go so far as to call it 'slavery'. You either obey, or you die. Or, worse than death; you're 'claimed' by the Wood forever as a Wildling. And the Greenwrath isn't what we see today, it used to be WAY, WAY worse. Like, 'you turn to glitter and your soul is trapped in the trees forever' kind of worse. This is still canon, despite being 1.0, because it is outright stated in the CNJ/WHM quests that used to be the big risk of the Shroud, and now it's less so since the Calamity crippled the Elementals. And on the topic of the Elementals, while their 'residence' in the Shroud is discussed, it's never touched on that the Elementals aren't ONLY in the Shroud. There are Elementals everywhere. You correctly point out the parallels to pre-meiji shinto with druidism flavors (which, already, huge respect for actually catching that), and then seemingly ignore the obvious kami allusion with the Elementals, with the padjal acting as literal kamiko and kannushi. Beyond that, the Elementals exist in Eureka and presumably elsewhere if we stretch a bit, considering the Corvosian myths of 'fey' and the whole way the Green Word is assumed to work, though the latter two are more headcanon than anything else. It's stated in the video that the elezen and hyur, despite their racial tensions, exercised some kind of... 'decent amount of racial harmony' (10:55)? Which is just NOT the case. Even underground, the hyur and elezen warred, actively, for what's stated to be decades in other sources. (In EE1, though: "Fifty years later, population growth pushed the Hyur to enter the forest as well. Upon finding people already ensconced underground, they challenged the Elezen for ownership of the habitable caves. Quarrel soon led to conflict, and the two races came to cross blades time and again.") There's also an off-handed mention of all Duskwight being painted as 'the bad guys', even if they're 'not Gridanian'; this is a misconception. EVERY Duskwight can trace their origins back to to Gelmorra, albeit they've had five hundred years to move out and become expatriots or what have you. Every Duskwight comes from the Gelmorran seed culture, and inherits Gelmorra's view of everything on the surface and indeed most civilizations as being bad and wrong, and hyur and elezen that aren't Duskwight as being straight up race traitors. They raid and bandit not ONLY because they have to, but because the divide is five centuries in the making the Duskwight are almost solely of the opinion that they have the 'right' to anything on the surface, regardless of actual claim. And yes, they are the bad guys, because... even if oppressed and pitable, they are actively malignant toward the surface societies. I'd also like to take a moment to address the idea that the Duskwight still live /in/ Gelmorra; they did live in Gelmorra /longer than others/, but even they abandoned the city proper as the civilization collapsed. Concurrently, the city festers with vilekin and seedkin, and Duskwight are more of a scattered bunch than any united entity. Also, any Duskwight that is NOT a part of the Shroud Duskwight or an expatriot is not actually a Duskwight. A prime example; no Ishgardian is a Duskwight. Ishgardians are their own subsect of elezen with no ties to the cultural origins of Duskwight or Wildwood. And my last two tenuous complaints is that it's said elsewhere in these comments, as well as in the video, that Amdapor and Gelmorra have NO connection, which is... kind of... a bit absolutist. After all, there's a reason the hyur and elezen insisted on staying /in/ the Shroud and not just... leaving, and why both considered the other effectively intruding on THEIR rightful lands. Hyur and elezen did exist in Amdapor, and there's a reason the Elementals were so... gun-ho. And on that topic, the elementals never stopped being 'apocalyptic mode'. There was a reason the Gelmorrans were so careful about their protections and seclusion. Tripping up meant death. The Elementals HATED the Gelmorrans, passionately, even to this day when they've accepted the Gridanians as their servants. A perfect example of the Elementals' LOATHING for the Gelmoorans is indicated in the Leve Elemental Housekeeping: "Of overgrown traces of Gelmorra, few remain to disturb the order of the forest, yet occasional ruins are still found that must needs be removed. What is under the forest may stay, but our laws decree that no stone of Gelmorra mar the home of the elementals." And who makes those laws? The Elementals. I do find it interesting that there are thaumaturges despite this, however, considering the sociopolitical climate at the time in the wake of the Flood was, with some major exceptions (Sharlayan) the usual response to umbral calamities; that is to say, that magick was basically treated as a nuclear weapon with the potential for great damage. I struggle to reconcile this as well with the elezen living under the hyperfocus of an actively hostile spiritual force that /absolutely/ would kill and claim you if it detects you. Perhaps the fact that it draws from internal mana and not ambient aether is what keeps it acceptable? It rather raises the idea of potentially drawing parallels between the cult of Nophica and these spellcasters, however. Just an interesting thought. Now, on the topic of not-lore that I found amusing; I've actually never heard anyone refer to the Gelmorran standard as a 'bouquet of mushrooms', I've always heard it hypothesized as either a ghostmaw flower or mun-tuy beans. While this felt more like an off-the-cuff discussion between two friends more than a lore video attempting to actually break down what Gelmorra and the Duskwight are and were, it was disappointing because even if I've misinterpreted the points I'm criticizing here, the fact remains that communication on them was so unclear that the miscommunication persisted through multiple rewatches and a practical thesis written out on such things. I've actually linked a lot of your lore videos to my (Duskwight predominant) FC such as your videos on aetherology, or a lot of the videos on obscure racial lore. (Lalafells poisoning themselves? I'm so glad someone actually picked up on that, I was half-convinced I'd imagined it from headcanon), and this felt... kind of like a slap in the face as far as expected quality and solidity went, especially for those of us who are /super/ passionate about this topic and the themes the Duskwight present. Again, it's a lore talk, not necessarily an informational video, but... you get it. Regardless of my qualms and criticisms with this particular video, I will be eagerly awaiting the next installment of that which you lot put out. ^^
My friend you may be better suited discussing this in the discord rather than in here as it’s not very easy to respond to this in the format it is here. And typically things of this length particular if critical will get passed over. That said I see this is in good faith so I’ll try to respond to some points and appreciate the watch and you engaging with it thoughtfully
As a predicate, these are not all encapsulating deep dives and we do not go into the deepest minutia possible to avoid going long. They are meant as primers. To your first point Elezen and Hyur me and Niniri agree with you and the point we were making was not that they are X but that some sources suggest such and Niniri even points out the disagreeing aspect of the elezen. The emphasis wasn’t to say they WERE a physical amalgamation but there is speculation within the world. Now as I typically get annoyed when people run with theories just because they get scant evidence (looking at you Miqote from Mera) we could have but more explicit but I thought it was already apparent.
On the Elementals I’m not really sure I understand your point on this one I’m afraid. We make these points and I talking about Shroud elementals in my view is WILDLY different than talking about elementals as a whole taxonomical class as the power exhibited by those of other regions pales in comparison and Euerka is a new and odd case in terms of the world and also warrants its own video. Talking about the Shroud elementals is a narrow and specific topic even of other beings of pure Aether do exist in the world.
On the duskwight. Our point was not that duskwight are not Gridanian it was that they are ostracized which is demonstrably true and multiple points you touch on here we either agree with you on in the video or at the least don’t directly state in contrast. I also disagree that the only deciding factor of a duskwight is being gridanian. Beyond this I feel you missed the point if you think we were condoning the brigands and we were very careful about this. Empathy towards a people as a whole part of Gridania or no who tend to be ostracized is not a condoning of action and we have multiple MSQ, Side quest and NPC conversations showing this to be the case. Gridania does not help it’s self but that does not mean the actions of brigands or else wise get a pass.
On Gelmorra and Amdapor you’ll note we are typically careful with language and while we could have framed it better as there is no direct evidence but as we talk about with other topics in this video and elsewhere that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be suggestive
They were not. The amdapori fled the shroud after the 5th though I do suppose some Hyur desdencents who fled to Gyr Abania of Amdapor MAY have found their way into Gelmorra during or after it’s founding. So far as we know though Amdapor the city was fully sealed off and it’s peoples didn’t return to the shroud.
sad we don't see more of gelmorra, other duskwight cities and moon keeper tribes, there's so many questions left unanswered after the post moogle quests and stuff that happens in gridania...
Thank you for touching on the Pajdal. I feel like they are the most passed over when it comes to beings in the world. I wish there was more detail on them because I just love the idea of them. Most high fantasy writings just make the elves the guardians of the woods but in this case the made a whole new "race"
There will be tons more in the next lore talk promise!
Been playing FFXIV since current ARR. FIRST MMO or video game ever. Didn't even know how to hold PS4. Needless to say, lore, gameplay etc was a little overwhelming. I was unable to grasp and understand all the lore. Now, I am watching new FFXIV streamers go through content and light bulbs just keeps on going off. THIS...is great content. wow...BIG LIGHT bulbs just went off. Thank you
The hedge, in druidism and witchcraft, is the term used to often refer to the “fence-line” of sorts between the material world and spiritual one. Hedge Witches are especially adept in crossing and dealing with the other side. My best guess is the Hedge in the Black Shroud is an inner safe zone in which the elementals have the most influence, but it also may act as the physical marker of the area the elementals rule for humans.
You are sort of right. The Hedge is a physical ward that keeps bad things out of the Black Shroud. See;
EE1: “Guardians of the Twelveswood and creators of the Hedge - a protective barrier which wards the forest from evil - ..."
“Greetings, friend. I am O-App-Pesi, of the conjurers. It is our magic which keeps the Hedge in place, and it is the Hedge which protects us from our enemies without. Still, it is a construct, and so its power is far from boundless. It cannot repel all we would wish. Even as we speak, the hedgetrees sway uneasily amid the creeping darkness. Countless are the Garlean interlopers that steal into the Twelveswood, and countless too are their villainies.”
O-App-Pesi: “No need to introduce yourself, I know full well who you are. The ‘hapless adventurer,’ many and more are calling you. I reckon not a single one of the Twelve was watching over you, to have sent you here just when the Hedge was sundered. Ah, forgive me, I suppose an explanation is in order. We conjurers of Gridania use our magic to weave a sort of barrier around the Twelveswood. It is a pact we share with the most ancient of the elementals.
They protect our city-state, and in turn we protect them. That is why the Hedge exists. Think of it as a symbol of our friendship. It’s also what you and any other non-native to Gridania have to thank for not being attacked upon entering the forest. At least, you ‘’would’’ have it to thank had you not passed along just as a portion of the Hedge was broken. The greenwrath was upon you the instant you drew near-and it clings to you still. Sorry to say, but you’ve got the stink of woodsin all about you. After all that, you still need to ask if forest elementals truly exist?”
Heart of the Hedge: “Hedgetrees play an important role in the forest by helping to maintain the protective barrier which shields the Twelveswood from harm. Should the trees become damaged, the forest would find itself more susceptible to outside danger.”
Soileine: “In time, you will learn to open your heart and mind to the elementals - to bond and commune with them. Elementals abound in the Twelveswood around Gridania. Unto them falls the task of protecting the forest. And unto us falls the task of protecting them. To that end, we have laid the Hedge - a magical barrier formed by our order and the elementals that serves to turn away outside evils. Those who would breach it invite our vengeance.”
Syro Fulke: “Elder Seedseer Kan-E-Senna has foreseen the coming of a grave danger - a danger which nears the Twelveswood even now. To defend against this threat, we mean to erect an Irmin Hedge - the most powerful barrier known to the conjuring arts.
The Irmin Hedge is more potent and far-reaching than the current Hedge. It soars to the heavens above, and pierces deep below the earth...”
Et cetera.
@@tildemancer7181 Damn, thank you for compiling all that!
You said that the Mun-Tuy Cellars are inhabited by Duskwight, and that they're a good example of a Duskwight settlement, but if you actually go there in-game, it's *only* Gridanian NPCs, and none of them are Duskwights. I dont' think there are any Duskwight settlements in-game except for a couple areas you go to for Fates... to kill them.
*spoiler of job quest alert*
I revisited the side quest at 19:50 and the npc said the following: "... As an experimental entity, it is too simple to handle more than one order at a time, so it might be stuck attempting to fulfill my request... I designed it to convey ideas through information-laden aether rather than words, so I'm happy to see the communication was successful. It does seem, however, that this method is ineffective when the recipient of the message is asleep." The Japanese version additionally said if this kind of creature fails to influence the recipients' aether, then it will not be able to communicate.
This means the elemental we seen as cruel as today were not designed to handle sophiscated task like managing a whole ecosystem, but rather to perform simple communicative jobs. To be able to communicate through aether rationalized why the elementals can perform green wrath, for they can manipulate creatures by manipulating their aether -- and I think that is why they can and need to make Pajdals to communicate with normal human.
It amazed me how much the elementals are deified and served, however, it was originally made to serve. One might say is karma in the sense that human paid for their pride to assume they have a say of what should be created and what should not be. It is sad to see that in the end of tank job quest, we decided to not blame the elementals for the horrible incidents they got people into and chose to still protect and coexist with them. But is there a better way? It is hard to tell if the elementals did more good or more evil, in the end they were just trying to survive just like other creatures in the world. What will happen to the twelves wood if people eventually choose to ditch the elementals? Anyway, personally, I still wish to see a redistribution of power between human and elementals, since it is already the Seventh Astral Era, and other citystates had made their leap.
Thank you for making high quality content like this :)
The ancient with the elementals at 19:50 is called Meleagros, and he does have a quest you can do for him, but unfortunately has nothing to do with the elementals in front of him. After you do the quest, his normal clickable dialogue just says:
"I am a taxonomist, an artist in the medium of names. It is my job to adorn the flora and fauna of Etheirys─such as these creatures you see here─with names befitting their natural beauty." Which... unfortunately doesn't really tell us anything, lol.
make a campfire? go to toto rak. cut down a tree? to toto rak. overcook beef? straight to toto rak. undercook chicken believe it or not toto rak.
Very exciting content. Thanks!
Neat video. Hopefully there will be more info on the Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te in the next one. They have been living in the Twelveswood since at least the fifth umbral era. Everyone seems to forget about them. Would love to get some more lore about their relationship with Gridania and the elementals.
We saved that topic for the next part, this was focused on the other group that everyone forgets about with the Duskwight
Loved this!! I’ve been so curious about the whole of Gridania for so long :> Just like everyone else, I treasure my character a ton, so getting a vid on the history of my Giraffe was awesome! c: thank you!!
So glad to see this video in my feed! :) I love this series, keep up the great work!
Awesome video as always i would've of they brought back the west shroud heard it was a thing back in 1.0 would be kool to explore if it's and instant area or something like that
Very informative, learned so much. Thank you.
You guys produce the best lore content I've ever heard please come back
You mentioned being curious about it, so If you havent seen it yet, look at the twelve wonders from above. Lets just say the landscape has a very significant shape from a birds eye view.......
So, after shortening this to not be (as much of) a wall of text, I'd like to start by saying I found this video to be a really disappointing take on a subject I'm most passionate about. I'd like to start the post by saying a lot of what is said in this video is correct and there's some interesting, lesser-known lore tidbits you guys touch on; for example, the ruins of Lasthold and the ruins above Gelmorra proper, the separation of Spirithold, the apparently much-needed clarification that no, the Duskwight were not ruled by Voidsent, yes, Galvanth is not a soulflayer, and even touching on Galvanth's spire, as well as the constant clashes of the Ixal and Gelmorrans which instilled an early distrust and hatred for the surface world, if the Elementals literally atomizing people hadn't done that already. I really liked the touch on the implications of moogles and sylphs in the political climate of the Twelveswood.
Now. Why do I think this is a disappointing video, then, with so much to praise about it? Well... there are a couple of statements passed off as fact which are just... misleading, or outright wrong. Let's start with the blaring marid in the room; the idea that Duskwight are not actually elezen, but are genetically and culturally a mesh of hyuran and elezen. Now, culturally, yes. Absolutely, there's no arguing that. However, the idea that Duskwight aren't actually elezen and are like, genetically mixed is just a misreading of the actual text. The cited text reads; "Sharing similar roots in the old tongue, Duskwight names closely resemble those of their Wildwood cousins, though after years of enmity between the two clans, any once-shared names have long since been claimed exclusively by one clan or the other. Upon close examination, similarities between Hyuran (Louis, Hilda) and Elezen (Louisoix, Hildie) given names can often be observed. While some scholars attribute this to a common ancestry shared by the two races, such theories have been roundly dismissed by the proud Elezen." (Encyclopedia Eorzea I, Page 083) This does NOT say what is claimed in the video... at all. It instead refers to the elezen and hyur POTENTIALLY having a very distant common ancestor, which the elezen fervently deny. This is NOT a statement that Duskwight are somehow not elezen, or that they're genetically some kind of weird chimera. (Claimed @ 11:00)
There's some indicated confusion about how the Elementals came to be worshipped in all cultures, which I find really weird because you touch on the exact reasons without drawing the connections. It's not just a proximity thing, the Elementals have always been considered to be 'Fragments of Nophica', which is why even Amdapor worshipped her and bargained with the Elementals on that ground. And these aren't just ideas that are easily ignored and subsumed; as you point out, to live in the Shroud is to be 'subservient' to the Elementals. Some, and I'm sure the Duskwight would use this analogy, would go so far as to call it 'slavery'. You either obey, or you die. Or, worse than death; you're 'claimed' by the Wood forever as a Wildling. And the Greenwrath isn't what we see today, it used to be WAY, WAY worse. Like, 'you turn to glitter and your soul is trapped in the trees forever' kind of worse. This is still canon, despite being 1.0, because it is outright stated in the CNJ/WHM quests that used to be the big risk of the Shroud, and now it's less so since the Calamity crippled the Elementals.
And on the topic of the Elementals, while their 'residence' in the Shroud is discussed, it's never touched on that the Elementals aren't ONLY in the Shroud. There are Elementals everywhere. You correctly point out the parallels to pre-meiji shinto with druidism flavors (which, already, huge respect for actually catching that), and then seemingly ignore the obvious kami allusion with the Elementals, with the padjal acting as literal kamiko and kannushi. Beyond that, the Elementals exist in Eureka and presumably elsewhere if we stretch a bit, considering the Corvosian myths of 'fey' and the whole way the Green Word is assumed to work, though the latter two are more headcanon than anything else.
It's stated in the video that the elezen and hyur, despite their racial tensions, exercised some kind of... 'decent amount of racial harmony' (10:55)? Which is just NOT the case. Even underground, the hyur and elezen warred, actively, for what's stated to be decades in other sources. (In EE1, though: "Fifty years later, population growth pushed the Hyur to enter the forest as well. Upon finding people already ensconced underground, they challenged the Elezen for ownership of the habitable caves. Quarrel soon led to conflict, and the two races came to cross blades time and again.")
There's also an off-handed mention of all Duskwight being painted as 'the bad guys', even if they're 'not Gridanian'; this is a misconception. EVERY Duskwight can trace their origins back to to Gelmorra, albeit they've had five hundred years to move out and become expatriots or what have you. Every Duskwight comes from the Gelmorran seed culture, and inherits Gelmorra's view of everything on the surface and indeed most civilizations as being bad and wrong, and hyur and elezen that aren't Duskwight as being straight up race traitors. They raid and bandit not ONLY because they have to, but because the divide is five centuries in the making the Duskwight are almost solely of the opinion that they have the 'right' to anything on the surface, regardless of actual claim. And yes, they are the bad guys, because... even if oppressed and pitable, they are actively malignant toward the surface societies. I'd also like to take a moment to address the idea that the Duskwight still live /in/ Gelmorra; they did live in Gelmorra /longer than others/, but even they abandoned the city proper as the civilization collapsed. Concurrently, the city festers with vilekin and seedkin, and Duskwight are more of a scattered bunch than any united entity. Also, any Duskwight that is NOT a part of the Shroud Duskwight or an expatriot is not actually a Duskwight. A prime example; no Ishgardian is a Duskwight. Ishgardians are their own subsect of elezen with no ties to the cultural origins of Duskwight or Wildwood.
And my last two tenuous complaints is that it's said elsewhere in these comments, as well as in the video, that Amdapor and Gelmorra have NO connection, which is... kind of... a bit absolutist. After all, there's a reason the hyur and elezen insisted on staying /in/ the Shroud and not just... leaving, and why both considered the other effectively intruding on THEIR rightful lands. Hyur and elezen did exist in Amdapor, and there's a reason the Elementals were so... gun-ho.
And on that topic, the elementals never stopped being 'apocalyptic mode'. There was a reason the Gelmorrans were so careful about their protections and seclusion. Tripping up meant death. The Elementals HATED the Gelmorrans, passionately, even to this day when they've accepted the Gridanians as their servants. A perfect example of the Elementals' LOATHING for the Gelmoorans is indicated in the Leve Elemental Housekeeping: "Of overgrown traces of Gelmorra, few remain to disturb the order of the forest, yet occasional ruins are still found that must needs be removed. What is under the forest may stay, but our laws decree that no stone of Gelmorra mar the home of the elementals." And who makes those laws? The Elementals.
I do find it interesting that there are thaumaturges despite this, however, considering the sociopolitical climate at the time in the wake of the Flood was, with some major exceptions (Sharlayan) the usual response to umbral calamities; that is to say, that magick was basically treated as a nuclear weapon with the potential for great damage. I struggle to reconcile this as well with the elezen living under the hyperfocus of an actively hostile spiritual force that /absolutely/ would kill and claim you if it detects you. Perhaps the fact that it draws from internal mana and not ambient aether is what keeps it acceptable? It rather raises the idea of potentially drawing parallels between the cult of Nophica and these spellcasters, however. Just an interesting thought.
Now, on the topic of not-lore that I found amusing; I've actually never heard anyone refer to the Gelmorran standard as a 'bouquet of mushrooms', I've always heard it hypothesized as either a ghostmaw flower or mun-tuy beans.
While this felt more like an off-the-cuff discussion between two friends more than a lore video attempting to actually break down what Gelmorra and the Duskwight are and were, it was disappointing because even if I've misinterpreted the points I'm criticizing here, the fact remains that communication on them was so unclear that the miscommunication persisted through multiple rewatches and a practical thesis written out on such things. I've actually linked a lot of your lore videos to my (Duskwight predominant) FC such as your videos on aetherology, or a lot of the videos on obscure racial lore. (Lalafells poisoning themselves? I'm so glad someone actually picked up on that, I was half-convinced I'd imagined it from headcanon), and this felt... kind of like a slap in the face as far as expected quality and solidity went, especially for those of us who are /super/ passionate about this topic and the themes the Duskwight present. Again, it's a lore talk, not necessarily an informational video, but... you get it.
Regardless of my qualms and criticisms with this particular video, I will be eagerly awaiting the next installment of that which you lot put out. ^^
My friend you may be better suited discussing this in the discord rather than in here as it’s not very easy to respond to this in the format it is here. And typically things of this length particular if critical will get passed over. That said I see this is in good faith so I’ll try to respond to some points and appreciate the watch and you engaging with it thoughtfully
As a predicate, these are not all encapsulating deep dives and we do not go into the deepest minutia possible to avoid going long. They are meant as primers.
To your first point Elezen and Hyur me and Niniri agree with you and the point we were making was not that they are X but that some sources suggest such and Niniri even points out the disagreeing aspect of the elezen. The emphasis wasn’t to say they WERE a physical amalgamation but there is speculation within the world. Now as I typically get annoyed when people run with theories just because they get scant evidence (looking at you Miqote from Mera) we could have but more explicit but I thought it was already apparent.
On the Elementals I’m not really sure I understand your point on this one I’m afraid. We make these points and I talking about Shroud elementals in my view is WILDLY different than talking about elementals as a whole taxonomical class as the power exhibited by those of other regions pales in comparison and Euerka is a new and odd case in terms of the world and also warrants its own video. Talking about the Shroud elementals is a narrow and specific topic even of other beings of pure Aether do exist in the world.
On the duskwight. Our point was not that duskwight are not Gridanian it was that they are ostracized which is demonstrably true and multiple points you touch on here we either agree with you on in the video or at the least don’t directly state in contrast. I also disagree that the only deciding factor of a duskwight is being gridanian. Beyond this I feel you missed the point if you think we were condoning the brigands and we were very careful about this. Empathy towards a people as a whole part of Gridania or no who tend to be ostracized is not a condoning of action and we have multiple MSQ, Side quest and NPC conversations showing this to be the case. Gridania does not help it’s self but that does not mean the actions of brigands or else wise get a pass.
On Gelmorra and Amdapor you’ll note we are typically careful with language and while we could have framed it better as there is no direct evidence but as we talk about with other topics in this video and elsewhere that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be suggestive
Can't wait for the next one.
So I'm still a little confused. Were the Gelmorrans and Amdapori related?
They were not. The amdapori fled the shroud after the 5th though I do suppose some Hyur desdencents who fled to Gyr Abania of Amdapor MAY have found their way into Gelmorra during or after it’s founding. So far as we know though Amdapor the city was fully sealed off and it’s peoples didn’t return to the shroud.
Duskie erasure
ngl I thought the mushroom flag was those dandelion moogle puff things
Yesssssssssss gimme that sweet sweet FFXIV lore content
What does this have to do with elden ring?
???
Uh, nothing? This is a Final Fantasy XIV lore video. Is there something in Elden Ring with a similar name?
sad we don't see more of gelmorra, other duskwight cities and moon keeper tribes, there's so many questions left unanswered after the post moogle quests and stuff that happens in gridania...