Recovering from the New Kadampa Tradition: part one - entry and indoctrination
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Recovering from the New Kadampa Tradition. Dr Michelle Haslam in conversation with Jon Atack. Part one - entry and indoctrination
Is sex with deities a part of real Buddhism? How was a psychologist with two doctorates lured into the New Kadampa Tradition? Michelle tells Jon why she joined NKT and talks about her time in the group.
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How come in scientology & other Cult's, there are many people interviewd.
But in the NKT, it's only just the same one girl Dr interviewed every time ?
Okay - apart from the painting discussion...this was a very interesting video.
I studied Buddhism very seriously in my 20's-30's, and came very close to associating with a high control group.
I don't remember the name of the teaching, but I do remember getting a 'must do this and that' type booklet on my first visit and noticed the elevated chair of the 'teacher'. Also, followers went all hush and awe around the teacher, not out of respect, but out of social norms among the group.
After one lecture, which didn't sit well (I wish I could remember it exactly, but something about it made me want to run) I left and never returned.
Don't get me started on my yoga quest.
There's a nice ending though - after sampling different, (and 'peculiar' practices), I cobbled together a gentle one hour session to do on my own without a hard sell awaiting me after the yoga mats are collected.
Good on you for recognizing the red flags -and avoiding the trap! It's our primary mission to make sure that, instead of unquestioning obedience, we are ALL taught from infancy to spot the warning signs and make a hasty exit - even and (especially) when we sense those warning signs in the trusted leaders of our own communities.
@@jonatackfamilyfriends6176 I did have many warning signs. I didn't ignore them. But the chance of a place to live a community of kind people and learn Buddism to ease my troubled mind was by far the best option at the time as I had to give up my flat as I could no longer work and the local mental health team was of no use in the slightest.
Many people mainly ordainded nuns gave me big red flags so I tried other centres. I quickly gained a reputation as a skilled builder so I would get phone calls could I work on their centre. And I thought yeah anything to get away from these cold nutty nuns. they've got it all wrong I thought. This is not my understanding of buddism. But I kept coming across these cold and unpleasant characters. Mostly women and hardcore kadampas hankering after a position of authority willing to kiss ass and do anything no questions. And they always got given roles of authority even though they caused disharmony. They clearly prioritised business over everything. It is truly a horrid tradition. I seen a few kind people get burnt out then one day disappear. There is no warmth and sincere kindness. Bar the odd few. Truly awful places. So happy to see Jon mentor/offer his experience to Michelle she's done great work which inspires me. But I don't have any close support and I know it would harm me to do shit without the right support. I'd like to stand at the entrance handing out leaflets to people turning up for meditation classes. A team of 3 I think would survice . Without doubt more people will get hurt.
Thank you for making the information on the NKT available. There are wonderful teachings of Buddhism available, Thich nhat Han is amazing for example. Not all Buddhism is so littered with spiritual bypassing
I'm finding both of your work v interesting and helpful. I think Buddhism is seen as the one good religion by many people (I used to see it like that) and hadn't considered how it could have cult like groups. My local area has an NKT centre which just calls itself a meditation centre and looks harmless, I'd have no idea if it weren't for others speaking out about their experiences.
Someone has asked me already whether we planned the maroon jumpers. No we didn't, and it's even weirder that this is the colour of the robes that the ordained NKT members wear!
I'll publicly own this as my fault!
For the record:
I asked Jon and Michelle to wear dark colors, and I've told Jon many times that he looks best on camera in his maroon sweater (as we Yanks persist in calling them). But I gotta say - ya both look pretty good in dark maroon! :D
I'm going to get myself a maroon jumper.
The only place near me is a kadampa meditation center l.. so iv been a number of times.... i read books by all or any buddhist i want! I meditate listen to dharma talks and go home........ being told what and who to listen to is out of the question for me & they know it!!!
I was six years with them, its truly an individual journey, but i never let them push me around 😊
You didn’t have to be socially isolated Michelle when you left-you left your close friends behind, and maybe you feel there’s good reason for that but we were always there for you even when you made bad decisions. The fact you say you avoided people who might judge you is quite insulting if you place us in that category and excluding family members who would say ‘I told you so’ speaks of a lack of accountability on your part…why not just say ‘I made a mistake, it hurt me, are we still friends?’?? x
*Please Read newest comment's on here first.*
I went AWOL in 1992 . It was gettin bitter even then .
The NKT is truly a cult but please don’t let it put you off Dharma practice!
I'm afraid I don't accept spiritual advice when it has not been requested. I don't identify as a spiritual person anymore and that is my choice and my right
@@recoveryfromthenewkadampat3445 it’s not all about you
@@andypotter2669 You're the one suggesting what I should practice, and I am replying by telling you, no, that's not suitable for me, please mind your own business. And now you're accusing me of what, being selfish? I have a moral compass and values without studying or practicing dharma.
I realise now that you probably weren't talking to me but to those reading the thread. It's a bit difficult to tell as have I received a lot of direct orders from people identifying as buddhists telling me what I should practice. Either way, people can make up their own minds.
Please state facts... What are your facts/evidence of this statement?
For cultic dynamics in universities, search "meta-cult".
I experienced reverse culture shock when in a cult (the Legion of Christ, coming back from Mexico)
In brief. They say a Buddhas deity body manifests from the Dharmakaya or clear light. Which we can't see. and they say an emanation body can appear which would appear like a human. (but we wouldn't know)
I can't really believe in enlightenment like we can fly and stuff. But I do like to believe it and other mystical things like fairy's. It gives me good feelings to imagine such things. Reality can be such a bore. Imagination is my best friend. (poor me) I love a good story with good imagery. And all mythical creatures can be transferred to different types of humans.
O yer Conveniently in around the 1500's Je tsongkhapa and other ordained Sangha agreed that times are getting degenerate so no more displaying miricle powers as this won't actually help anyone. I don't agree with this personally. Many things don't help anyone like faith. Faith is the perfect tool to deceive someone so lets ban that. If you want me to view you as enlightened f@@king show me.
No lie people really do treat and talk about teachers like their enlightened. It can give you mental tourettes . When sitting there meditating close to them. My mind was like ''I best not think anything rude if they can read my mind'' too late for that my mind is thinking of the worst thing it can. No shit this happened to me a few times. But I've always felt people pick up on how I feel and thoughts I have.
I read her ridiculous report and how she ever got a PhD is beyond me - what she says (and not only how she says it) is also factually incorrect.
*Search; NKT Cult.*
@@pepe-zfIi36grkoftIqk I know all about the NKT thank you.
Good interview, I enjoyed it. Be interesting to discuss bliss/blessings further. Bliss is known to be borne of concentration focused meditation, whereas NKT see this as 'blessings from geshe-la's heart' etc.