Nick, I hate to say it but you're American and until you met Jerome your mind never turned to Canada as a source of more than just glacial melt water to fill Lake Missoula. The thought that major floods came from Canada didn't occur to most Americans. So glad to see the collaboration with Jerome to include Canada in the narrative! ❤ Thank You Nick and Jerome!!!👏👍
I was so proud of myself watching this discussion because I’ve watched all your videos, including the ones with Jerome on field trips, his in class lectures, as well as a few other interviews he’s done. I knew the regions you were talking about, had my beloved Google earth open & enjoyed every minute. The new format works for me, the graphics are top shelf.. #Zentnerd 🤓
Thanks for this great dialog with Jerome in your "setting the table" video! I agree with many that I saw in the chat who would like you to enable us to view the chat on replay. We used to be able to, and it really helps to go back and read other peoples questions and also some of the answers in the chat. I try to focus more on watching the video so I "mostly: ignore the chat and then read it on replay in more depth. Looking forward to each and every letter of the alphabet - cheers!
The Chat Replay is back, yay!😉 I think Nick accidentally clicked something, or most likely, UA-cam's mishaps! I know Nick himself also counting on being able to read the Chat afterwards!🙂💫💗I agree with you that that was the epic interactions "we" have all made, and been making on Nick's streaming video!! It helps when we all got to virtually visit Nick's office.💫😄You gotta love it!!!💗
I am going over this Jerome material again [here in B]. After Nick was blowing my mind in K, pointing back to Bretz's advisor, Chamberlain. As I worked briefly in the Spokane/Rathdrum Missoula gate way ["firehose"] & Cheney flood track; these same questions bothered me in past, as a working stratigrapher ultimately on groundwater questions. Speaking of loess; are some of the paleosols in the loess dated yet? I need to read the brilliant Atwater.
Look at 38:13. There are 31 flood deposits visible in that slide. They are thicker at the bottom, and thinner on top, covered with a wind deposited layer above the 31 flood deposited layers. It is thus a sequence of glacial melt down Lake Missoula getting shallower in each succeeding flood event.
For everyone upset with the ads - UA-cam had an update about 3 months ago in which they’ve decided they will put ads on big channels whether we (the audience) and the creator (Nick in this case) like it or not. He has nearly 100k subscribers and gets thousands of views per video. So they want that $$$ no matter what anyone else wants
At least they are not the singing commercials of the 1960s! I am going to play devil’s advocate. Not much is actually free. Us old people grew up with “free” tv and radio only because the costs and profits were covered by people and companies wanting to publicize their products on both. Unless it is supported by your tax dollars a business will not survive without profits. Even someone in a poor country who sells the fruits of their labor is doing so to get enough money to “trade” for things they can not provide for themselves. I do think too much profit is made to pay for the overinflated salaries and incomes of those at the top. Breaking up monopolies, again, could help with that. You have lots of phone service providers because the Federal government broke up “Ma Bell”. Now known as AT&T.
Fascinating discussion, easy for a non-rock person like me to understand. I am so looking forward to all 26, with or without ads! Haven't seen any ads in any of your shows.
Looking at the Google earth pictures, there appears to be much more watershed draining into wa from Canada than from Montana, both are significant. Very interesting presentation, thank you. Hiking in the cascades, getting above the glacial canyons, much of the terrain resembles plateaus in some areas.
You're an amazing teacher and host. I really enjoyed the details and the information about BC. Your guest was very interesting and I'll look forward to hearing more. I am toasting you right now! Many, many thank yous!
Cheers. As far as your commentary on the "geologists" - the last couple of years have shown us how trustworthy (or not) the scientific/political community is. I say we talk to and be willing to accept the thoughts from common sense armature geologists like Tom from session A as well. There are a lot of hard headed, closed mined turds from the old school of every aspect of science and life. What you are doing is fresh and not only acceptable but needed.
I know it's a bit tangent, but this is exactly why I brought up Lake Bonneville, Glacial Great Salt Lake and Fossil Lake, Lake Goshute which complicate everything in the Green River Basin. There are so many similarities. Where did all this water come from? How can we separate the Eocene Shales from the catastrophic ice age scouring? Love you stuff!
I watch your programs on replay and have 2 comments: first, who cares if there are ads? They are so easy to mentally tune out. Second, I really like the office format and the more formal illustrations you are using. I sometimes had trouble following the handdrawn charts and maps. I didn't watch your last A to Z Series, and am amazed at how the quality of your computer presentations has evolved. Thanks for taking the time and considerable effort to offer these to the public,
Nick I was anything but board you have more education than I could wish but you make the story easy to understand. Keep on keeping on I get it my interest never stops. Thank you for your time.
Brilliant. I am not a science person, I didn't catch a lot of the 'summer' stuff, but I was able to follow along just fine. I think it is nicely accessible, at least for me. Looking forward to 'Thursday' from Australia.
Watching in replay. I am happy we have the classes, doesn't matter if there are no blackboards or hot mics. It is good to see the globe spinning today though. :) He's Canadian, it makes sense he reads French. Now it is time to re-watch to read the conversations in the chat.
This discussion between you and Jerome was one of the most interesting so far on Ice Age Floods. It helped to have recently watched previous Bretz episodes. I'm looking forward to episode C on Thursday. Thank you.
..Another great episode and part of what most hope will be an inspired part of this winter. Got to finish seeing this across three days, due to excessive snowfall accumulations here in south central Alaska; another record thanks to various interpretations with labels affixed according to whichever timeline ascribed? ~ Thanks again, Professor Nick! Sincerely, in a small town Alaska
Hi Nick - this was a really good summary and lead in to some of those key, disputed/ controversial topics and arguments on these Ice-Age Floods. Enjoyed your back and forth with Jerome who reminds me very much of Basil T with his breadth and depth of knowledge. Congrats again on your award from the GSA, well deserved ... and I was only poking the bear a little when i mentioned in the chat on Test 2 "Now breathe ..." your relationship with the tech has definately got more chilled.
The different areas where the lobe would sit, off and on during decades of freezing and rapidly cooling off and on, as the area got progressively warmer, would make sense. Love these ideas and all the great info!
Oh my, what an episode this was! I absolutely loved the two of you sparring over the floods. Hanging on the edge of my seat, not wanting to miss a syllable of either of you. Thank you! ❤
Love it Nick. Thanks for all the hard work putting this together for us civilians and thanks for getting Jerome on board. I've watched everyone you've done with him and I've watched him on a couple other channels. Your helping fill in the gapes of glacier floods of North America and possible connections to other topics relating to questions about the continent! I hope to be live with you when I can but granddaughters and veterans day activities got in the way of this one.
No ads here in replay either, I'm a cheap date as always. 😂 Excellent camera angles btw. Great program thank you. ❤ Well....I just got 1-ad in Replay Episode A at the beginning. (Hallmark card at least....i could skip after 5 seconds...)
Jerome Lesemanne--- thank you so much! I always enjoy listening to you talk on geology. Where on Earth do I find myself a copy of that beautiful wall map?
I thought I saw a comment here about the live chat not being available in replay. I can't find it now, but at least for me (YT Premium) I watching in replay right now and I'm seeing the chat synchronized with the video
It was Yuki & me who couldn't find the live chat replay. She put a comment here, and I replied under it. Later, she replied back to me to say that the live chat had returned. I think she might have deleted the whole comment thread, because I can't find it now either, not even my own.
Great discussion Nick. I'm no geologist, but I always thought the Mississippi River Valley and the St. Lawrence Seaway were the outlets for the Great Lakes area glaciers. Sort of like coulees.
Session A was absolutely enthralling. I have been following your discovery route for the past four + years. Q? Do you know if similar research is being done on the melt of the European icesheet? Cheers from Melbourne, Australia.
Excellent discussion again! Excellent questions too love the idea of Bretz field assistants! I apologize for not remembering the man’s name who photographed the notes, but maybe he could make another trip to Chicago to track the students down? They submitted a dissertation? Something had to have been published…just a thought, Again thanks to you!
Jerome is so brilliant. And please, Nick, don't be scared away from the experts. Hearing them explain things and differentiate between concepts is one of the best parts of the A to Z series. I would hope that you would have a guest every single week and on most of the sessions. They add so much. And I am not a geologist but I am an educator.
@sandythixton4611 Totally agree about the experts. Nick is modelling for us to seek out “those who know” when we want answers to “stuff we don’t know”. It is exactly Nick’s approach that he states he’s not the expert, but he seeks out experts to get answers. And then in turn takes that Information and wraps it up on a way for all To understand. His inquisitiveness and pure passion is what brings me to his channel time and time again. Love Nick’s content and passion for it
I absolutely love you having guests and I wouldn’t worry about it being too expert and detailed. As a follower since the old town hall lectures and the pandemic live streams but not a geologist I have always been able to follow along. Perhaps you could put links to earlier episodes or just remind people to look at earlier shows and lectures to help them understand.
Need a loess depth chart! The channels of the okanogan Columbia and snake river channels were around before 3MYA. The yakima fold n thrust belt was growing during the entire 3,000,000 years during the Ice age. Plus we have 3 degrees of clockwise motion also to contend with. The CRB put the Columbia River into its channel same with the Snake River . So the channels for drainage were well established prior to the Ice age. The only time is wouldn’t draining is when the channels were filled up by landslides(Bridge of the Gods Ahem), or others that got blasted slowly or rapidly by floods.
I rewatched the video and considered the map behind Jerome in his office showing the ice sheet margin; it gave me pause to think of the ice age advances and retreats like waves crashing into a shoreline, each glaciation advance like a wave running up the shoreline with a line of foam delineating the moraine end point. The advances would stretch or thin the ice behind the moraine, the retreats would affect the next incoming wave 🌊 thus the topography would magnify the forces in each portion of the ice movement as the system attempts to reach equilibrium. It just moves very very slowly in comparison to fluid water. These would also affect the sub glacial water drainage system a significant amount. Those forces would push water back up channels lifting the ice up and dropping it back down with significant amounts of pressure. Some waves of Ice would be significantly larger than others in such a system. Just like A Rogue wave 🌊. In 3,000,000 years there may have been a few earthquakes that impart energy into such a system. The Straight of Juan de Fuca was full of Ice A magnitude 12 earthquake would have huge waves plus a serious uplift or drop of the bedrock,the subglacial riverine system attempting to either fill or empty during such an event. Here’s a fact: over the last 4 years the city of Seattle has been drilling a drainage tunnel from the Ballard locks 3 miles east to Wallingford 125 feet below the surface above a known fault. It was stopped several times as they encountered many glacial erratics up-to 20 feet in diameter. The only way those erratics could get down there would be liquefaction of the glacial till. An Earthquake generated Tsunami 🌊 would hit the Ice sheet and go right under the foot of the glacial ice at the mouth of the Straight of Juan De Fuca or any other alpine or lowland glaciers that terminate at the ocean. Look to Lituya Bay Nick! Say hi to Bijou!!
Don’t worry about over complicating things. If people are interested they will watch multiple times. I’m not very smart so I have rewatched most of your videos.
This was great, Nick. It was not "too much", at least for me. I looked up tunnel valleys while listening to you and Jerome, and my goodness, the similarity of the geomorphology between some tunnel valleys and the scablands is striking.
I recently watch the full story of the Bonville flood. One striking comparison was made. To paraphrase: the Bonville flood released much more water over a longer period of time. The Missoula flood released water at a higher rate. They noted it with Cubic Feet per second. Perhaps one way to determine magnitude would be to estimate cfs vs volume based on Missoula lake levels. Just a thought.
Nick, this occurred to me as session two came to an end. Is it possible to calculate the chronology of the ice sheet and the smelting rate/ release of water over its end stage or stable situation. Can water release occur at all stages to produce regular floods.
Speaking of Omak, my family and I took a trip to Kelowna BC in 2008-ish, and we returned to Portland via US 97, and (as a complete geology novice, which I still am) I definitely noticed the benches at Omak and thought to myself, woah, something significant happened here, and I was super curious what the heck it was. That trip was the first time I saw Grand Coulee dam and the Grand Coulee itself and I have to admit I had never understood what they were all about hydrologically from looking at a map view from childhood. Like, what? I understood reservoirs behind dams, that makes sense, but what's with this weirdass lake not even along the river. Visiting, it STARTED to make some sense for the first time. I also wonder what the civil engineers understood about the geology at the time of the construction of the Grand Coulee dam.
ALL GOOD. Like the multi-camera arrangement - it’s illustrative of your curious, Open mind - in action. I consider your first open question to be a priority - something I asked you years ago and you deferred an answer then to follow the evidence through science. I liked your caution then and your courage now to ask this open question. As I say, All Good. RE: Open Questions - KEEP AN OPEN MIND. Glad to watch the recording so I can pause and reflect while watching. (No evidence of adverts.)
More outstanding content and thinking. This series is already a winner! I’m wondering if, in general, a somewhat different approach to thinking about continental glaciation can drive additional thinking. Thinking about the big picture at different points in time, might yield new insight. I suppose that’s part of what Jerome’s research is all about. I don’t think any of us have even the fuzziest idea about the enormous mass and impact that a moving continental ice sheet has. So, in addition to working from detailed observations up to a more generalized explanation, how about thinking about the really big picture of what the power of a mile high (or whatever height) continental ice sheet will have on the landscape. Not only in terms of forming or modifying the landscape, but also how the hydrological and geological dynamics of a moving sheet of ice of that mass will have on things like: the net volume of regional and localized melt water generation and the variability of its erosive effect; repeated landscape deformation and recovery and the impact landscape deformation can have on meltwater runoff at different stages in an ice sheet’s lifecycle; variability in the permeability of moraines composed of different types of rock (and of different masses) and how that might impact meltwater runoff and variability in the dynamic sculpting of an impacted landscape; why moraines are deposited to different depths at different locations - why there? And so forth. So rather than just deducing through observation what appears to have gone on to test a hypothesis, also use inductive reasoning to frame new hypotheses for additional testing. With all the exotic terranes in the region, what differentiated effect might those landscapes have had on the ice sheet’s movements, because of the inherent variability of the terranes’ underlying geological components and structures. Can different underlying formations assert variability on how the landscape can be deformed, sculpted and reformed by the movement of ice sheets? And how might that have an impact on repeated flooding events? Why was the Wallula Gap resistant to being opened up despite massive repeated floods? Why was the power of flooding so massive that it was able to create tremendous horseshoe falls and enormous holes drilled into the underlying basalt, but was unable to punch through that bottleneck? Water of that mass and with that much rushing force should have been unstoppable. If its energy was largely spent by the time it reached the Gap, were there other similar formations back upstream that the waters were able to breach? Just some thoughts trying to frame the scope and impact on the landscape of the nearly incomprehensible power of a moving and dynamic continental ice sheet, not just the impact of relatively small lobes emerging in advance of the “mother” ice.
Out of curiosity, I wonder if these floods, whether Missoula or others, created changes that can be found in either climate or ocean circulation. There seems to be records of these changes occuring from Lake Agassiz draining events.
Nick, has anyone brought in historical environmental/weather data to look for any factors that may coincide across the Pre- & Post Lake Missoula initial major break/flood? Also, the "Canadian Waters" question is intriguing. I am seeing me playing in a mud/rain puddle as a child, jumping up and down, making the water splash away, fall, then run back in, creating and following miniature coulee.
The important concept is that Glacial Lake Missoula has wave cut benches that are preserved from the top down to the bottom. This is a record of the depth of the Glacial Gates that formed the lakes sequentially in decreasing volumes, and decreasing depths as the glacier melted down.
Not necessarily. Wave cut benches can form during filling and be preserved once they are below wave base. The shorelines/wave cut benches are probably an amalgamation of multiple lake levels
@@jeromelesemann1855 Since you live in the area, and most likely have some good photographs of the wave cut benches, and some good photographs of the deposited layers of the sediment from the flood events, you could do a visual test by turning one or the other upside down and compare them side by side. There will either be an obvious relationship between thinner and thicker layers top to bottom and the spacing between wave cut benches, or there will be no relationship ( random spacing ). I am working on something, in my spare time. I am trying to associate the Conjunctions of the Larger Planets with the deposition of thin calcite layer in cave lakes. The Conjunctions occur around every 317 years and 8 + months apart. These Conjunctions create more force on the Sun, so the Sun gets a little hotter for around 1/4 of the cycle ( 317.669 / 4 = 79.417 years ). The last Conjunction was May 11, 1941, so adding 79.417 to 1941.417 = 2020.834. So 2016 and 2021 were hot years. In the last 23,000 years of glacial melting, there would be 72 hotter than average periods. But the Continental Glacier Melt Down to just Greenland, and Antarctica being left occurred between 23,000, and 7,000 years ago, a duration of 16,000 years ( 50 hot periods ). This would mean at least 50 times that Lake Missoula Filled Up and Removed a Glacial Ice Barrier. Send me an email to my state email address at michael.w.clark@state.co.us and I will send you a composite image of Fuentemolinos 395, and Post Glacial Sea Level Rise. It shows around 40 horizontal layers as the cave lake elevation dropped sequentially, and the stabalized enough to allow growth of a new layer on the top of the cave lake. These layers are paper thin. When the Ocean levels rise, it pushes the atmosphere up over the oceans, and the land effectively is at a lower elevation, so the Barometric Pressure and temperature a a tiny bit higher. Cave Lakes form at the lowest elevations inside cave and very far back from the entrances, so evaporation occurs due to changes in Barometric Pressure atop the Cave Lakes as the Cave breathes in and out. Hot time periods means more evaporation. Colder time periods mean the cave lake remains at the same elevation for protracted time periods. MWC
The flood animation water should be at least 3x deeper. That sets up the possibility of longitudinally reverse current eddies that would have bashed the scarp of Dry Falls with entrained boulders in a reverse, eddy, current (like a sideways tornado). If true, then the lakes in front of the scarp would have been excavated at the same time.
I saw on "another channel" research on glacial meltwater doing landscape carving in Europe and there are no Lake Missoula equivalents associated with the Fenno Scandian Ice Sheet.
Plenty of drama with the Loess ! Can someone link me to the Brian, Jerome, Joel, Sky? video on seds of Moses Coulee? The offshore archive & the loess & silt "slackwater" archive us great, the gravel record [flood event vs mass waste vs fluvial is brutal]. Preserved time [deposition & surfaces] vs. Lost time (no depostion updip, but records offshore). I've been looking forward to learning more.
The bottom of the Atlantic will record the depth of the sediments, and the depth down to hardened Basalt . So if there were previous times that there were deep glaciers on the continents, the basalt will "freeze" at higher elevations, and if there are previous times of glacial melt downs, then the oceans fill up again, and the Basalt " freezes" at lower elevations. The ratio is very close to 3 to 1. A 3 meter increase in the depth of the oceans will result in a 1 meter decrease in the elevation of the top of the Basalt. In the last 23,000 years the change in the Ocean depth was plus 120 meters, so the " freezing " depth of the Basalt floor at the spreading ridge moved down around 40 meters. This is active Iso-Dynamic , not Iso-static equalibrium processes. If the Glaciers happened previously, then the Basalt under the sediment below the ocean floor will record the changes, and preserve the time periods of the changes on both sides of the Oceanic Ridges.
WITH EROSION WIPING OUT DEPOSITIONS, AND AGING AN EVENT IS IN THE DEPOSITION, THEN THE DEPOSITIONS SHOULD BE MOVED INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN. WOULD THE OLDEST BE FARTHER OUT INTO TO OCEAN AND DEEPER? SHOULD WE START DRILLING THE OCEAN FLOOR AND VALLEYS FOR OUR ANSWERS?
Its not just going to be glaciers and floods that affected the landscapes. Tectonics will be making their contributions of energy to move the ice sheets that form the dams and even break the dams. Seismic vibrations will help move the bedrock structures and make channels move in different ways. Seismic vibrations will also affect the carved valley walls which will also randomize the hydrology of the landscapes. There is much interaction of all of the forces involved.
Hi Jerome, What do you know about the leading edges of the ice sheet lobes, were they abrupt or tapered? What was the height of the ice sheet lobe moraines in relation to to their damming capabilities. Wallowa Lake in Oregon is in a moraine trough with 700’ lateral moraines; could moraines be the chief enabler of the 2,000’ Lake Missoula?
Nick, I hate to say it but you're American and until you met Jerome your mind never turned to Canada as a source of more than just glacial melt water to fill Lake Missoula. The thought that major floods came from Canada didn't occur to most Americans. So glad to see the collaboration with Jerome to include Canada in the narrative! ❤ Thank You Nick and Jerome!!!👏👍
Yes. Spots of DEPOSIT !!!! And then "sequence strat."
Great, Thanks!
Thank you.
A 26 part series with Nick? I'm glued to this already. The Pacific North West Plate series was a thing of beauty.
Thanks for the heads up about that topic! Cheers
WOW, you have a beautiful office.
I was so proud of myself watching this discussion because I’ve watched all your videos, including the ones with Jerome on field trips, his in class lectures, as well as a few other interviews he’s done. I knew the regions you were talking about, had my beloved Google earth open & enjoyed every minute. The new format works for me, the graphics are top shelf..
#Zentnerd 🤓
Thanks for this great dialog with Jerome in your "setting the table" video! I agree with many that I saw in the chat who would like you to enable us to view the chat on replay. We used to be able to, and it really helps to go back and read other peoples questions and also some of the answers in the chat. I try to focus more on watching the video so I "mostly: ignore the chat and then read it on replay in more depth. Looking forward to each and every letter of the alphabet - cheers!
The Chat Replay is back, yay!😉 I think Nick accidentally clicked something, or most likely, UA-cam's mishaps! I know Nick himself also counting on being able to read the Chat afterwards!🙂💫💗I agree with you that that was the epic interactions "we" have all made, and been making on Nick's streaming video!! It helps when we all got to virtually visit Nick's office.💫😄You gotta love it!!!💗
Woowee Jerome got me excited about a ton of stuff!
Good insight into Lake Columbia, truly many hard to grasp questions.
I am going over this Jerome material again [here in B]. After Nick was blowing my mind in K, pointing back to Bretz's advisor, Chamberlain. As I worked briefly in the Spokane/Rathdrum Missoula gate way ["firehose"] & Cheney flood track; these same questions bothered me in past, as a working stratigrapher ultimately on groundwater questions. Speaking of loess; are some of the paleosols in the loess dated yet? I need to read the brilliant Atwater.
Nick, open question #4 has been eating at me since you mentioned the HS teachers a couple of years ago. Looking forward to your series!
Look at 38:13. There are 31 flood deposits visible in that slide. They are thicker at the bottom, and thinner on top, covered with a wind deposited layer above the 31 flood deposited layers. It is thus a sequence of glacial melt down Lake Missoula getting shallower in each succeeding flood event.
For everyone upset with the ads - UA-cam had an update about 3 months ago in which they’ve decided they will put ads on big channels whether we (the audience) and the creator (Nick in this case) like it or not. He has nearly 100k subscribers and gets thousands of views per video. So they want that $$$ no matter what anyone else wants
At least they are not the singing commercials of the 1960s!
I am going to play devil’s advocate. Not much is actually free. Us old people grew up with “free” tv and radio only because the costs and profits were covered by people and companies wanting to publicize their products on both. Unless it is supported by your tax dollars a business will not survive without profits. Even someone in a poor country who sells the fruits of their labor is doing so to get enough money to “trade” for things they can not provide for themselves.
I do think too much profit is made to pay for the overinflated salaries and incomes of those at the top. Breaking up monopolies, again, could help with that. You have lots of phone service providers because the Federal government broke up “Ma Bell”. Now known as AT&T.
And phones are way more expensive than they would have been under the monopoly.
Fascinating discussion, easy for a non-rock person like me to understand. I am so looking forward to all 26, with or without ads! Haven't seen any ads in any of your shows.
Looking at the Google earth pictures, there appears to be much more watershed draining into wa from Canada than from Montana, both are significant. Very interesting presentation, thank you. Hiking in the cascades, getting above the glacial canyons, much of the terrain resembles plateaus in some areas.
You're an amazing teacher and host. I really enjoyed the details and the information about BC. Your guest was very interesting and I'll look forward to hearing more. I am toasting you right now! Many, many thank yous!
Nice boat! I heard everything Jerome said, I'm glad I know his kind of geology well enough to follow along.
Jerome is awesome as are you!
Cheers. As far as your commentary on the "geologists" - the last couple of years have shown us how trustworthy (or not) the scientific/political community is. I say we talk to and be willing to accept the thoughts from common sense armature geologists like Tom from session A as well. There are a lot of hard headed, closed mined turds from the old school of every aspect of science and life. What you are doing is fresh and not only acceptable but needed.
Nick has quite a few followers in Northern California. Including me.
This was awesome and so important in establishing the evolving and dynamic interactions of glaciation development and retreat. Fabulous!
The level of detail actually cleared up some of my confusion. This was great
I know it's a bit tangent, but this is exactly why I brought up Lake Bonneville, Glacial Great Salt Lake and Fossil Lake, Lake Goshute which complicate everything in the Green River Basin. There are so many similarities. Where did all this water come from? How can we separate the Eocene Shales from the catastrophic ice age scouring? Love you stuff!
I watch your programs on replay and have 2 comments: first, who cares if there are ads? They are so easy to mentally tune out. Second, I really like the office format and the more formal illustrations you are using. I sometimes had trouble following the handdrawn charts and maps. I didn't watch your last A to Z Series, and am amazed at how the quality of your computer presentations has evolved. Thanks for taking the time and considerable effort to offer these to the public,
Nick I was anything but board you have more education than I could wish but you make the story easy to understand. Keep on keeping on I get it my interest never stops. Thank you for your time.
Good podcast Nick I enjoyed hearing from Jerome ,
❤❤❤❤❤THANK YOU BOTH!❤❤❤❤❤
Nick and crew would very much enjoy having you out to look at the interesting glacial lake Coeur’ Alene
This was awesome!! Thank you Jerome and Nick!!!
I really feel strongly that Moses coulee story is linked to outburst flood directly from the north.
❤❤ looking forward to C thru Z!
I like the different cameras! establishing shots, great work!
Thanks Nick and Jerome! A great program as always. It does a nice job setting up the series.
Brilliant. I am not a science person, I didn't catch a lot of the 'summer' stuff, but I was able to follow along just fine. I think it is nicely accessible, at least for me. Looking forward to 'Thursday' from Australia.
Excellent program -- as usual!!! I love and appreciate the detail!!
Watching in replay. I am happy we have the classes, doesn't matter if there are no blackboards or hot mics. It is good to see the globe spinning today though. :) He's Canadian, it makes sense he reads French. Now it is time to re-watch to read the conversations in the chat.
Wow, wow, awesome!! Thank you Jerome and Nick for the discussions!! Great open questions everybody, you gotta love it!!!😄
Hello Yuki
@@Eric_Hutton.1980 Hello!!😄Did you watch some live, or are you watching now? It's a lot there... Just find your pace and enjoy!!😉💗To us all!!
Agree! Superb conversation to set the table.
Yay, the chat replay is back!!!😃💗💫
@@yukigatlin9358Watching in replay.
This discussion between you and Jerome was one of the most interesting so far on Ice Age Floods. It helped to have recently watched previous Bretz episodes. I'm looking forward to episode C on Thursday. Thank you.
Jerome was a great guest - thanks.
I love listing to you guys “think” ❤
Hello Jerome good to see you again 👋🏻 ❤
..Another great episode and part of what most hope will be an inspired part of this winter.
Got to finish seeing this across three days, due to excessive snowfall accumulations here in south central Alaska; another record thanks to various interpretations with labels affixed according to whichever timeline ascribed?
~ Thanks again, Professor Nick!
Sincerely, in a small town Alaska
wow, the time just flew by...very enjoyable!
Thank you
Brilliant!! More! More! More!!!!!!
Hi Nick - this was a really good summary and lead in to some of those key, disputed/ controversial topics and arguments on these Ice-Age Floods. Enjoyed your back and forth with Jerome who reminds me very much of Basil T with his breadth and depth of knowledge. Congrats again on your award from the GSA, well deserved ... and I was only poking the bear a little when i mentioned in the chat on Test 2 "Now breathe ..." your relationship with the tech has definately got more chilled.
The different areas where the lobe would sit, off and on during decades of freezing and rapidly cooling off and on, as the area got progressively warmer, would make sense. Love these ideas and all the great info!
Chiming in late, a stimulating and interesting discussion. New things to think about in this story!
I like the view from your office.
Catching you on replay. Jerome is always an awesome guest. Thanks! ❤
Oh my, what an episode this was! I absolutely loved the two of you sparring over the floods. Hanging on the edge of my seat, not wanting to miss a syllable of either of you.
Thank you! ❤
That was a great talk guys! Very thought provoking 😉👍
Thanks Nick and Jerome.
Love it Nick. Thanks for all the hard work putting this together for us civilians and thanks for getting Jerome on board. I've watched everyone you've done with him and I've watched him on a couple other channels. Your helping fill in the gapes of glacier floods of North America and possible connections to other topics relating to questions about the continent! I hope to be live with you when I can but granddaughters and veterans day activities got in the way of this one.
No ads here in replay either, I'm a cheap date as always. 😂 Excellent camera angles btw. Great program thank you. ❤
Well....I just got 1-ad in Replay Episode A at the beginning. (Hallmark card at least....i could skip after 5 seconds...)
Love the content and format
Jerome Lesemanne--- thank you so much! I always enjoy listening to you talk on geology. Where on Earth do I find myself a copy of that beautiful wall map?
I thought I saw a comment here about the live chat not being available in replay. I can't find it now, but at least for me (YT Premium) I watching in replay right now and I'm seeing the chat synchronized with the video
It was Yuki & me who couldn't find the live chat replay. She put a comment here, and I replied under it. Later, she replied back to me to say that the live chat had returned. I think she might have deleted the whole comment thread, because I can't find it now either, not even my own.
@@jensoboleski It always takes a little while until the life chat is available in replay, like a couple of hours.
Naked coulees. Need to check the rating on this episode.
Thanks for another great episode!!!
Better late than never! Missed a and b had to turn notifications back on.
Thanks nick.
Great discussion Nick. I'm no geologist, but I always thought the Mississippi River Valley and the St. Lawrence Seaway were the outlets for the Great Lakes area glaciers. Sort of like coulees.
Thanks Nick and Jerome…. Always interesting! ⛏⛏⛏
Wonderful Geologic education! Thanks Nick
Wow! That was a great session.
Session A was absolutely enthralling. I have been following your discovery route for the past four + years. Q? Do you know if similar research is being done on the melt of the European icesheet? Cheers from Melbourne, Australia.
Excellent discussion again! Excellent questions too love the idea of Bretz field assistants! I apologize for not remembering the man’s name who photographed the notes, but maybe he could make another trip to Chicago to track the students down? They submitted a dissertation? Something had to have been published…just a thought,
Again thanks to you!
Jerome is so brilliant. And please, Nick, don't be scared away from the experts. Hearing them explain things and differentiate between concepts is one of the best parts of the A to Z series. I would hope that you would have a guest every single week and on most of the sessions. They add so much. And I am not a geologist but I am an educator.
@sandythixton4611 Totally agree about the experts. Nick is modelling for us to seek out “those who know” when we want answers to “stuff we don’t know”. It is exactly Nick’s approach that he states he’s not the expert, but he seeks out experts to get answers. And then in turn takes that Information and wraps it up on a way for all To understand. His inquisitiveness and pure passion is what brings me to his channel time and time again. Love Nick’s content and passion for it
I absolutely love you having guests and I wouldn’t worry about it being too expert and detailed. As a follower since the old town hall lectures and the pandemic live streams but not a geologist I have always been able to follow along. Perhaps you could put links to earlier episodes or just remind people to look at earlier shows and lectures to help them understand.
Morning from Oak Park Michigan
Need a loess depth chart! The channels of the okanogan Columbia and snake river channels were around before 3MYA. The yakima fold n thrust belt was growing during the entire 3,000,000 years during the Ice age. Plus we have 3 degrees of clockwise motion also to contend with. The CRB put the Columbia River into its channel same with the Snake River . So the channels for drainage were well established prior to the Ice age. The only time is wouldn’t draining is when the channels were filled up by landslides(Bridge of the Gods Ahem), or others that got blasted slowly or rapidly by floods.
I rewatched the video and considered the map behind Jerome in his office showing the ice sheet margin; it gave me pause to think of the ice age advances and retreats like waves crashing into a shoreline, each glaciation advance like a wave running up the shoreline with a line of foam delineating the moraine end point. The advances would stretch or thin the ice behind the moraine, the retreats would affect the next incoming wave 🌊 thus the topography would magnify the forces in each portion of the ice movement as the system attempts to reach equilibrium. It just moves very very slowly in comparison to fluid water. These would also affect the sub glacial water drainage system a significant amount. Those forces would push water back up channels lifting the ice up and dropping it back down with significant amounts of pressure. Some waves of Ice would be significantly larger than others in such a system. Just like A Rogue wave 🌊. In 3,000,000 years there may have been a few earthquakes that impart energy into such a system. The Straight of Juan de Fuca was full of Ice
A magnitude 12 earthquake would have huge waves plus a serious uplift or drop of the bedrock,the subglacial riverine system attempting to either fill or empty during such an event. Here’s a fact: over the last 4 years the city of Seattle has been drilling a drainage tunnel from the Ballard locks 3 miles east to Wallingford 125 feet below the surface above a known fault. It was stopped several times as they encountered many glacial erratics up-to 20 feet in diameter. The only way those erratics could get down there would be liquefaction of the glacial till. An Earthquake generated Tsunami 🌊 would hit the Ice sheet and go right under the foot of the glacial ice at the mouth of the Straight of Juan De Fuca or any other alpine or lowland glaciers that terminate at the ocean. Look to Lituya Bay Nick! Say hi to Bijou!!
Thanks Jerome and Nick, you've answered some questions but there is always more?
Don’t worry about over complicating things. If people are interested they will watch multiple times. I’m not very smart so I have rewatched most of your videos.
Great way to start out a new season of learning!
Your office is just too neat.
This was great, Nick. It was not "too much", at least for me. I looked up tunnel valleys while listening to you and Jerome, and my goodness, the similarity of the geomorphology between some tunnel valleys and the scablands is striking.
Great setting up for the winter, thank you both!
Ice Age Floods Institute - for the map
Great start, Mahalo Jerome
I recently watch the full story of the Bonville flood. One striking comparison was made. To paraphrase: the Bonville flood released much more water over a longer period of time. The Missoula flood released water at a higher rate. They noted it with Cubic Feet per second.
Perhaps one way to determine magnitude would be to estimate cfs vs volume based on Missoula lake levels. Just a thought.
Nick, this occurred to me as session two came to an end. Is it possible to calculate the chronology of the ice sheet and the smelting rate/ release of water over its end stage or stable situation. Can water release occur at all stages to produce regular floods.
Speaking of Omak, my family and I took a trip to Kelowna BC in 2008-ish, and we returned to Portland via US 97, and (as a complete geology novice, which I still am) I definitely noticed the benches at Omak and thought to myself, woah, something significant happened here, and I was super curious what the heck it was. That trip was the first time I saw Grand Coulee dam and the Grand Coulee itself and I have to admit I had never understood what they were all about hydrologically from looking at a map view from childhood. Like, what? I understood reservoirs behind dams, that makes sense, but what's with this weirdass lake not even along the river. Visiting, it STARTED to make some sense for the first time. I also wonder what the civil engineers understood about the geology at the time of the construction of the Grand Coulee dam.
Thank you!! Great discussion!
ALL GOOD. Like the multi-camera arrangement - it’s illustrative of your curious, Open mind - in action. I consider your first open question to be a priority - something I asked you years ago and you deferred an answer then to follow the evidence through science. I liked your caution then and your courage now to ask this open question. As I say, All Good. RE: Open Questions - KEEP AN OPEN MIND. Glad to watch the recording so I can pause and reflect while watching. (No evidence of adverts.)
More outstanding content and thinking. This series is already a winner! I’m wondering if, in general, a somewhat different approach to thinking about continental glaciation can drive additional thinking. Thinking about the big picture at different points in time, might yield new insight. I suppose that’s part of what Jerome’s research is all about. I don’t think any of us have even the fuzziest idea about the enormous mass and impact that a moving continental ice sheet has. So, in addition to working from detailed observations up to a more generalized explanation, how about thinking about the really big picture of what the power of a mile high (or whatever height) continental ice sheet will have on the landscape. Not only in terms of forming or modifying the landscape, but also how the hydrological and geological dynamics of a moving sheet of ice of that mass will have on things like: the net volume of regional and localized melt water generation and the variability of its erosive effect; repeated landscape deformation and recovery and the impact landscape deformation can have on meltwater runoff at different stages in an ice sheet’s lifecycle; variability in the permeability of moraines composed of different types of rock (and of different masses) and how that might impact meltwater runoff and variability in the dynamic sculpting of an impacted landscape; why moraines are deposited to different depths at different locations - why there? And so forth. So rather than just deducing through observation what appears to have gone on to test a hypothesis, also use inductive reasoning to frame new hypotheses for additional testing. With all the exotic terranes in the region, what differentiated effect might those landscapes have had on the ice sheet’s movements, because of the inherent variability of the terranes’ underlying geological components and structures. Can different underlying formations assert variability on how the landscape can be deformed, sculpted and reformed by the movement of ice sheets? And how might that have an impact on repeated flooding events? Why was the Wallula Gap resistant to being opened up despite massive repeated floods? Why was the power of flooding so massive that it was able to create tremendous horseshoe falls and enormous holes drilled into the underlying basalt, but was unable to punch through that bottleneck? Water of that mass and with that much rushing force should have been unstoppable. If its energy was largely spent by the time it reached the Gap, were there other similar formations back upstream that the waters were able to breach? Just some thoughts trying to frame the scope and impact on the landscape of the nearly incomprehensible power of a moving and dynamic continental ice sheet, not just the impact of relatively small lobes emerging in advance of the “mother” ice.
It would make sense for the loess to be from the great mud flats left over from the earlier floods themselves.
Deposited and swept away in cycles.
I love the balloon pyrotechnics!
Out of curiosity, I wonder if these floods, whether Missoula or others, created changes that can be found in either climate or ocean circulation. There seems to be records of these changes occuring from Lake Agassiz draining events.
Nick, has anyone brought in historical environmental/weather data to look for any factors that may coincide across the Pre- & Post Lake Missoula initial major break/flood?
Also, the "Canadian Waters" question is intriguing. I am seeing me playing in a mud/rain puddle as a child, jumping up and down, making the water splash away, fall, then run back in, creating and following miniature coulee.
The important concept is that Glacial Lake Missoula has wave cut benches that are preserved from the top down to the bottom. This is a record of the depth of the Glacial Gates that formed the lakes sequentially in decreasing volumes, and decreasing depths as the glacier melted down.
Not necessarily. Wave cut benches can form during filling and be preserved once they are below wave base. The shorelines/wave cut benches are probably an amalgamation of multiple lake levels
@@jeromelesemann1855 Since you live in the area, and most likely have some good photographs of the wave cut benches, and some good photographs of the deposited layers of the sediment from the flood events, you could do a visual test by turning one or the other upside down and compare them side by side. There will either be an obvious
relationship between thinner and thicker layers top to bottom and the spacing between wave cut benches, or there will
be no relationship ( random spacing ). I am working on something, in my spare time. I am trying to associate the Conjunctions of the Larger Planets with the deposition of thin calcite layer in cave lakes. The Conjunctions occur around every 317 years and 8 + months apart. These Conjunctions create more force on the Sun, so the Sun gets a little hotter for around 1/4 of the cycle ( 317.669 / 4 = 79.417 years ). The last Conjunction was May 11, 1941, so adding 79.417 to 1941.417 = 2020.834. So 2016 and 2021 were hot years. In the last 23,000 years of glacial melting, there would be
72 hotter than average periods. But the Continental Glacier Melt Down to just Greenland, and Antarctica being left
occurred between 23,000, and 7,000 years ago, a duration of 16,000 years ( 50 hot periods ). This would mean at least
50 times that Lake Missoula Filled Up and Removed a Glacial Ice Barrier. Send me an email to my state email address
at michael.w.clark@state.co.us and I will send you a composite image of Fuentemolinos 395, and Post Glacial Sea Level Rise. It shows around 40 horizontal layers as the cave lake elevation dropped sequentially, and the stabalized enough to allow growth of a new layer on the top of the cave lake. These layers are paper thin. When the Ocean levels rise, it pushes the atmosphere up over the oceans, and the land effectively is at a lower elevation, so the Barometric Pressure and temperature a a tiny bit higher. Cave Lakes form at the lowest elevations inside cave and very far back from the entrances, so evaporation occurs due to changes in Barometric Pressure atop the Cave Lakes as the Cave breathes in and out. Hot time periods means more evaporation. Colder time periods mean the cave lake remains at the same elevation for protracted time periods. MWC
The flood animation water should be at least 3x deeper. That sets up the possibility of longitudinally reverse current eddies that would have bashed the scarp of Dry Falls with entrained boulders in a reverse, eddy, current (like a sideways tornado). If true, then the lakes in front of the scarp would have been excavated at the same time.
I saw on "another channel" research on glacial meltwater doing landscape carving in Europe and there are no Lake Missoula equivalents associated with the Fenno Scandian Ice Sheet.
Plenty of drama with the Loess ! Can someone link me to the Brian, Jerome, Joel, Sky? video on seds of Moses Coulee? The offshore archive & the loess & silt "slackwater" archive us great, the gravel record [flood event vs mass waste vs fluvial is brutal]. Preserved time [deposition & surfaces] vs. Lost time (no depostion updip, but records offshore). I've been looking forward to learning more.
Thank you. Keep working, good luck.
The bottom of the Atlantic will record the depth of the sediments, and the depth down to hardened Basalt . So if there were previous times that there were deep glaciers on the continents, the basalt will "freeze" at higher elevations, and if there are previous times of glacial melt downs, then the oceans fill up again, and the Basalt " freezes" at lower elevations. The ratio is very close to 3 to 1. A 3 meter increase in the depth of the oceans will result in a 1 meter decrease in the elevation of the top of the Basalt. In the last 23,000 years the change in the Ocean depth was plus 120 meters, so the " freezing " depth of the Basalt floor at the spreading ridge moved down around
40 meters. This is active Iso-Dynamic , not Iso-static equalibrium processes. If the Glaciers happened previously, then the Basalt under the sediment below the ocean floor will record the changes, and preserve the time periods of the changes on both sides of the Oceanic Ridges.
Why not look at the Willamette Valley silts? Water and other well logs might have some time and magnitude information.
WITH EROSION WIPING OUT DEPOSITIONS, AND AGING AN EVENT IS IN THE DEPOSITION, THEN THE DEPOSITIONS SHOULD BE MOVED INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN. WOULD THE OLDEST BE FARTHER OUT INTO TO OCEAN AND DEEPER? SHOULD WE START DRILLING THE OCEAN FLOOR AND VALLEYS FOR OUR ANSWERS?
Its not just going to be glaciers and floods that affected the landscapes. Tectonics will be making their contributions of energy to move the ice sheets that form the dams and even break the dams. Seismic vibrations will help move the bedrock structures and make channels move in different ways. Seismic vibrations will also affect the carved valley walls which will also randomize the hydrology of the landscapes. There is much interaction of all of the forces involved.
Hi Jerome,
What do you know about the leading edges of the ice sheet lobes, were they abrupt or tapered? What was the height of the ice sheet lobe moraines in relation to to their damming capabilities. Wallowa Lake in Oregon is in a moraine trough with 700’ lateral moraines; could moraines be the chief enabler of the 2,000’ Lake Missoula?
There should be a movie made about Bretz and the unfolding of the megafloods story.
We need to study the history of the Loess. As boring as that may be. 😉 Thanks Jerome!
Off shore should include the debris left behind I the Willamette Valley of Oregon, right?
This was great thanks. Jerome's office is so boring. Mike in Bridgeport Wa