Thanks for all the effort put into this. A couple tips to improve accuracy: 1 - The laser dot is marking the center of a circle and the temp is averaged within the circle. The diameter of the circle is dependent on the distance and the angle set by the manufacturer. Check the manual for this info. 2 - the paper wasn't making good contact with the insulation, so there was very little conductive heat transfer. 3 - paint a black matte section directly on the insulation and read the temp off of that at a close range for the best accuracy (verify w/ a thermocouple taped to the service, or similar).
Also the outside temperatures were pretty varied. So, Idk if percent reduction in temperature is all that useful when comparing one panel with a 220 degree outside temp to another with a 180 degree outside temp.
Exactly, that is one reason he was getting the different temps on the outside, especially between the two temp guns. 1 foot difference in distance makes a huge difference in temp reading.
By the way, I've also installed a mini split AC in my garage. I used the 24,000 BTU unit from Senville for our 3-car garage, which is much cheaper than most units at $1250 US dollars at the time I purchased in Feb of 2023. A guy in my neighborhood installed one before me and he recommended it based on their price, and phone support. He called all of the main companies and Senville's support was the best. I can attest to the support because I ran into an issue with the AC drain pan connector leaking, and they sent me a whole new inside unit. I was initially considering the 18,000 BTU unit, but I'm glad I went bigger. I left unit going nonstop during the hot months and set to 76 degree, it felt really cool in there. It's so nice! One thing I'll warn you of is be thinking about what you'll do with the condensation. These units can fill a 5 gallon bucket in a day, and the ground will be saturated where the drain line drips. I ran PVC to a flowerbed about 10 feet away and the plants in that area love the extra water.
Great video comparison! Having a 100° garage was very unpleasant! After 2 years with my insulation I have to say that my garage is much more people friendly now. Thanks for the shout out!
After watching this i was about to go get some OC Foamular boards for my garage but luckily did some quick research. Owens Corning warns against using their boards in this manner because they are combustible and require a thermal barrier. I hope you put up a disclaimer.
IR thermometers measurement is dependant upon the emissivity of the material. If you want accurate results then stick some black pvc tape on and ensure it completely covers the field of view ( touch it against the material or cover a much larger area than you're measuring.) This can completely change the readings.
Also get closer. The laser dot is just for aiming - these IR thermometers read from a cone, 10:1 for the Klein single-laser unit. That means reading from 8' is measuring a bigger spot than the paper.
@@slamdvw... Also, looking through the IR camera from 8:15 is clear that the paper is only warm in about the middle third, where the tape is holding it near the insulation. The "wings" that curve away from the wall are almost room temperature. Interestingly, you can also see the "heat reflection" of the foil-based insulators.
Great video. However, please note that Owens Corning Foamular products are combustible and must be covered by a 15-minute thermal barrier I would not recommend using Foamular to insulate a garage door.
Why is everyone so scared of these "torsion" garage door springs they are completely safe to DIY. They are not "tension" springs with hundreds or thousands of pounds of pressure on them. I really feel like there is this lie that people that overcharge to replace these springs "professionally" are perpetuating all over the place that they are super dangerous. Buy the $12 proper tools to adjust them and save $500 every time they fail, and fail they will because they don't hold up to as much use as we put them through now. But if you do add insulation to the door you should not just "turn up your springs" you should replace them with heavier springs so they are not straining more against the load and will fail faster. Torsion garage door springs are DIY friendly! Tell your friends!
The double reflective insulation is a radiant barrier and needs an air gap. If you install it on the inside ridges of the door with polyseamseal, it will seal the segments of door and have the highest R value with the least amount of weight.
I just used the Owens Corning fiberglass insulation on my 2 car garage 8 panel door and I only had to pay $142 from Lowe’s for the 2 kits. Not only is it warmer in my garage but the door is remarkably quieter when it’s operating.
This was a really informative and well done video. I will definitely use the information I learned here. I did want to make one suggestion: a percentage temperature drop isn't really an accurate conclusion from the results. The reason is that our temperature scales' zero points aren't really zero temperature. They're just arbitrary points on the spectrum we assigned to be 0. 0 Celsius is more useful than 0 Fahrenheit, obviously, but neither truly represents zero temperature. Point being, 100 degrees is not twice as hot as 50 degrees and a drop from 100 to 50 wouldn't really represent a 50% drop. The only way percentages would work would be if you were using the Kelvin scale, whose 0 point truly is zero heat at all. But since none of us think in that scale, everything else would be meaningless to us. I think using actual temperature drop would be a better measurement. I'm sure you converted to percentage because your outside high temps weren't all the same and you were trying to account for that, which makes sense, but I think the problems with percentages just compound the discrepancy.
Don’t pay attention to my username as I’ve had this account for like 13 years. I work as a garage door technician. You’re never supposed to add insulation to an uninsulated door without changing the springs. The springs are designed by weight so adding to it after will screw that up. So if you’re planning on adding DIY insulation, also plan on paying $300+ for new springs. Adding more winds to the current springs will just reduce the life cycle and cause them to break prematurely. Garage doors are a lot more complicated than people realize.
I would think the dominant factors are flammability, durability in presence of moisture, and weight. The pink foam flammability is scary to me, I won't be doing that though it seems like best option otherwise. The eps (not xps extruded) styrofoam can absorb water I thought. Sealing it like Fred's method seems like asking for trouble. But maybe the foil faced foam options deal with water so those then stand out as best. That service call to adjust spring will cost more than the entire installation so there's that...
I still haven't done the insulation because I was wondering what method to use from the different videos on UA-cam but you did the work for me, now I know which one I'll use. Just EXCELLENT !!! Great video, Thank you !
With those IR thermometers the further away you read, the more area you are getting the measure from... the laser dot seems to be the only point you are measuring but read the manual and it will tell you the area being read with distance...
This would add a R value of about 1, excluding the thermal conductivity of any material installed between the door and the sheet to keep the air in place. Per my calculations, that would bring the option up to an R value of about 3.8.
I think another yt video mention that without the air gap the double reflective insulation became heat conductor and be less effective. Any reflective material is for repelling radiant heat transfer not for stopping conduction heat.
As I understand it, the double reflective stuff is supposed to have an air gap. It's in the instructions. Using the reflective stuff as the final layer in Fred's method would likely increase the efficiency.
A few years ago I did an install using the owens corning kit and then went around the edges with foil tape. It was a literal night and day difference in the garage temps. I did have to have a local company come out and replace my springs due to the added weight on a double door, but it was completely worth it! I also want to add, you should have your door springs adjusted regularly, it’s cheap to have them come out and they do lose tension over time and tend to stabilize after about 2 years of daily use. It’s not really a one and done thing.
I agree completely. I adjust my door springs myself after watching my installer and watching several UA-cam videos. ( I’ve been involved in home construction for years).
You could combine the Owen's Corning NGX with the lightweight double reflective insulation that is taped to the frame, and give you an air gap between them. That might be the best combination.
I actually just did this! Double reflective insulation before putting on the NGX and it’s made a huge difference. So much of the heat doesn’t enter the garage now 👍🏽
The least effective at 43% is actually the best value, and since the max performer is 56%, the performance between the two isn't quite as much as you might think. If it was me, I'd simply take all the bubble wrap I get from Amazon and See's and get to work taping them up. In most cases, the bottom line isn't heat flow, but the cost to heat or cool the heat flow. "Cost" includes mechanical heating and cooling, but also includes the insulation treatment. It actually takes rather little improvement of a bare metal panel to make a big difference in performance. The first 4 of "R" are the most impactful.
You cannot take percentages of degree measurements and compare them. It's meaningless. What's 10% of zero degrees? You have to convert to Kelvin first.
Awesome video as always! I live in London in a 1960s era apartment block with no insulation (it's crazy, I know). I'm on the 10th floor and have a wall of windows that are 80s-90s era but so drafty in the winter wind. I've done all the rubber strips and plastic sheeting stuff, but what really works is putting in foam panels in the windows! Yes it blocks the view, but when I wake up for work in winter it's dark outside and when I get home from work it's dark already, so it's no big deal. The foam is pretty easy to work with for beginners and is renter friendly.
Very interesting! Thanks for the summary at the end - I love that the top two in performance didn't add too much weight, were economical, and one is pretty quick and easy to install. Could be interesting to add in the insulation installed by a garage door company to the test.
Hey Mike, for sure. There are a dozen or more other solutions that would be fun to try but at least, like you mentioned, there are some efficient and inexpensive options to start with.
Reflective face insulation is by far most effective with an air gap. It usually says so on the insulation board itself. It's manufactured to be used as sub-siding with either vinyl siding or brick on the outside, creating that inherent gap. The DIY Fred solution is just following recommendations from the insulation maker, and then doubling it up because why not?
IR thermometers measure an average of an area in a cone that gets bigger the further you are away from the thing. So when your pointing it at those panels you aren't getting the temperature of where the laser is, that's just to help aim and is grossly misleading.
13:57 the Springs are considered a wear product that occasionally will require replacement. Tighter springs result in shorter life, so the cost of the added insulation could escalate
There is a lot of these vids out there and it's a great project for the DIY person. one thing that is often left out is the insulation adds extra weight to the door. not a ton but still extra. I learned this the hard way. That extra weight also wears on your springs and can shorten their life.
Having the lower panels much hotter than the upper panels completely invalidates your test. The higher temperature on the outside will greatly increase the amount of heat radiated outward and thus a good part of your “greater” temperature differential inside to outside has nothing to do with the insulation on the inside, but is due to a faulty test. You need to test again ensuring that you have the exact same temperature on the outside of each panel.
Yep. This exactly. TBH, I also question the overall utility of this. I'm sure it helps some but with all those gaps in a garage door, the thing's gonna leak heat like a sieve no matter what you do.
The lower panels are hotter because the insulation, all the heat that would be leaking through the door is being isolated on the outside since the insulation isnt letting it through. So you could actually use these outside panel temps to show which insulation is better as well
Remember, the lower panels will probably be hotter due to proximity to the concrete landing in front of the garage. Depending on how hot it is outside, the lower panels may be exposed to more heat.
I would have just kept ambient temp outside and heated or cooled inside the garage and monitored the face temps of the panels. You need to adhere the same material to the inside, and make sure the thermometer is only measuring that material for emissivity reasons. The IR thermometer measures a circle much bigger than the laser dot.
My garage door here in N Cakilaky has a ton of "hurricane strapping" that would have to be removed and then reinstalled for everything but the thinnest insulation you used. We did the thin foam insulation in our garage in Idaho and it helped a ton with the cold winters there. Thanks for the great video I enjoy your scientific experiments and the DIY stuff too! I wonder what two layers of the tinfoil bubble wrap with airgaps would do??
I have used Tom’s Key and it worked fantastic, was easy and extra keys programmed all work perfectly. Would recommend to anyone. The local Chrysler dealer was a major rip off.
Most of the heat leak will come through the metal of the garage door itself. You should try a kit that attached to the inside of the metal. I was able to cut the kit so that when closed it butts up pretty tightly together and you take the hinges off 1 or 2 at a time and run the foam and radiant barrier underneath. The screws will still conduct but it also makes the door significantly quieter in operation as well
Great comparison! Thank-you! I installed 1” rigid foam board on my garage door a few years ago. It helps, especially when the afternoon sun hits the garage door. Insulating the garage attic made a much larger difference! It now stays 9-10 degrees cooler in summer, compared to the outdoor temperature, and 9-10 degrees warmer in cold weather. We also had a mini-split installed. REALLY NICE! Question: how to install/best way to install rigid foam board into those panels on the garage door. I found a couple ways, have never been satisfied with the results. Any guidance, perhaps a video, would be most appreciated. Love your channel! Thanks again!
Infrared thermometers do not measure just where the dot is. They measure in a cone which gets bigger as you get farther away. Since the emissivity of metal is far different from foam, your temp measurements will not be accurate because you're measuring areas beyond the paper. Your IR camera has an emissivity adjustment that you need to set for the material you're measuring to calibrate the readings.
Excellent video - thanks! I used 2" rigid foam insulation on my garage doors, but I installed it with the silver side facing out to better reflect the heat. I tried it both ways before doing the whole thing and it was much cooler with the silver side facing out.
As a garage door guy I recommend the bubble insulation. Any of the other choices not just required adding tension but to do it properly the spring needs to get changed to match the new doors weight. That repair is usually more than the cost of insulation. If you want to go with the thicker stuff I recommend doing it when you're already planning on changing out the springs. Springs are only rated for 10,000 cycles and depending on how you use your door those 10,000 can add up pretty quickly.
From what i have researched, gauge, length, quarter turn all determine what can be lifted and the gauge usually determines life cycle if done correctly. But in most calculators they give a range. This method is adding 10lbs so likely can still be within spec
@@2mustange Probably, but not certain. You'll probably get away with not replacing the spring.... But, the other thing is how old is it? If its pretty old might as well replace it,.. Its easy to get sucked down a rabbit hole by adding the weight. just be prepared to. I think Johnson's advice is spot on. Most doors are out of balance, now add 10 pounds? Its going to show it even more. So, if you're planning to add weight, you should be prepared for someone to come out and rebalance it. This is NOT a DIY project they are stupid dangerous.
@@2mustangeit depends on the door length and height really. Not all doors will just be adding 10lbs. You’re not supposed to add insulation to an uninsulated door after springs have already been installed for uninsulated weight. Just asking for one to break then you’ll be out of pocket $300-400 for a new set. Some companies charge $400+ in some states. Garage doors are a lot more complicated than people realize.
@@2mustange I have software that gives my technicians exact numbers 🤷 and really a lot more goes into it than that. The doors weight, drum size and radius all go into engineering the proper spring size. Does it have high lift or is it pitched at a angle, that all changes the IPPT and in turn changes either the gauge wire and or length. If you want more cycles you will have a longer spring but that will also change the gauge needed to match the IPPT. If you run out of room and go too long to fit you can play with the diameter and make it larger or smaller to get different results or even go with a quad spring setup.
Minor suggestions: most paint reflect some Infrared, which is how the thermal temperature measuring devices works. So you might have been getting a reflection of the heat source when making the outside measurements. Best to turn off the outside heat source and move them out of the reflection line, or just use a direct contact thermometer. None of this should change the relative performance between the samples though. It just might have exaggerated the temp difference.
Great test. I like the results you came up with. Remember if you add weight it might not just be adding tension to existing springs but a completely new set of springs. Additional new doors use thermal breaks so the outside metal cant transfer heat inside this also helps improve the U-factor. See Clopay IECC compliance.
My garage is south-facing and very hot in the summer with internal temperatures slightly higher than the ambient temperature. This test was very helpful, thank you!
I insulated our garage door with styrofoam panels, and it didn't make much difference in the garage temperature, BUT it definitely decreased the icy draft flowing down the door in winter. Comfort level is much higher. Door faces north, single garage is in walk-out (and drive-out) basement, almost 100% underground with living spaces above and on one side. Keeping cold out is more important then keeping heat out.
I agree with those who suggest the percentage should be based on the absolute scale. But it doesn't matter for heat flow, which is only dependent on the difference in temperature. Q=kΔT. I estimated the actual R values, taking into account the R value of the door itself (Δ20°F). I get the following, normalized to R5 Formular. (Estimate is +/- 10%.) Door Δ20°F - R1.7 Silver reflector Δ55°F - R2.8 Gap filler foam Δ57°F - R2.9 R8 FG Δ61°F - R3.1 2" Rigid Foam Δ77°F - R4.0 R5 Formular Δ97°F - R5.0 DIY Fred Δ100°F - R5.2 I think the most interesting question is why the R8 fiberglass performed so poorly. Possibly because it was pushed in collapsing the depth.
Awesome! We are about to do this with our garage due to a significant temperature difference between it and the living spaces, as well as it being under living spaces. Can't wait to see your winter comparison as well!
On the solid owens corning closed cell the 1" and add an air gap. Then the reflective over that also taping the sides. The reflective works better with an airgap you you put it right on the metal it lowers the effects, thats why the bottom left one works the best. As far as getting a 2" thick sheet in, no problem, cut it into 2x2 squars Pluse the 6" the side rails are 3" each side added. Take a circlur saw and cut a groove down the center you slide one side in add gap filler then slide the other side infill the gap with spray foam and run foil tape over it. One big draw back with a foam insulation if it burns it gives off very toxic gases, by code it cant be exposed. You have to have a 2 hour firewall over it.
Any thoughts to maybe checking how well the garage door manufacturers insulation works? Pretty affordable. Made for the doors, and look like it is supposed to be there. 5 of your 6 options actually call for different springs than a non insulated door torsion system. I get what you are trying to do, but you will cost the viewer more money by not knowing what IPPT is and how its calculated.
Just an FYI, you can’t use percentages with temperature like that. Temperature difference is important, but percentage is meaningless. Convert your temperatures to Celsius, Kelvin, or Rankin and you’ll get different percentages, which tells you there’s a problem.
@@soccerguy2433 as the type of engineer who deals specifically in heat transfer, you’re wrong. Percentages should NEVER be applied to temperatures. Even sticking to the same scale. For example, if the outside temp is 100° and inside is 80°, the insulation is providing a 20° delta. If outside is 120° but inside is 100°, the insulation is exactly the same and providing the same resistance to heat flow, but percentages would suggest it’s different. (16% vs 20%). The point is you can not use percentage to compare temperature. Doesn’t matter if the scale is the same.
@@soccerguy2433 using the percent scale, which is rated better: a panel that reads 5° C on one side and 1° C on the other or one that reads 30° C and 10° C? Which do you think is actually better at blocking heat transfer?
Awesome review!!! Thanx a million. Regardless of the naysayers and critics, the rest of us appreciate the simple review and comparison. Definitely food for thought. God Bless!!
thank you for taking the time to do this experiment. I dont have a lot of 170 degree days where I live. I don't understand the rationale behind the experiment, why not just use direct sunlight? Also insulation in a garage might also be used to keep it warm. I don't believe reflective material insulates as well from cold as it does from radiant heat.
it's not just tensioning the spring, the garage door specialist said they could add extra turns, but it would probably eventually break the spring. Needed to upgrade the spring to compensate for the extra weight. I insulated my garage with Polyisocyanurate reflective foam (R9.6) spaced with wooden pieces (kind of what they use to seperate wood on pallets with)from door (air gapped) makes a huge difference. Used aluminum tape to seal air gaps around foam/frame
Very interesting and affordable methods to improve the comfort in the garage. I think it would be interesting to do a modified test of the Owens Corning pink with the reflective insulation against the door and/or add the spacing similar to Mr Fred's DYI Garage School method to create an air gap between the pink foam and the door
I really appreciate you doing this video. I have been researching for a solution for our three car garage. I found the cell system and was impressed but was not sure if I should go with that solution. Now I will decide either Cell or the Corning. Thank you so much.
*This is excellent information! I've been searching for something like this for about a month now, and I'm delighted to see a study that compares various insulation options. I'm currently in the process of insulating my garage, and I believe this study will provide valuable insights to anyone undertaking a similar project. Thank you for sharing this valuable research!*
12:13 You CANNOT do a Percentage decrease in temperature in the manner. It's wildly unscientific. Fahrenheit and Celsius are arbitrary scales with arbitrary zero points. First, if you're even going to think about doing percentages it MUST be done in Kelvin only. Second, even in Kelvin it shows an incredible lack of understanding on how heat transfer works. Keep it simple, degrees (in any units) difference from ambient. But, you must keep the ambient constant.
I’ve done the 1 inch pink foam, many times, very easy, effective and cheap. The fiberglass I’ve replaced several times for people the temp change loosens up the adhesive and the clips bend and fall out over time
@@Crydes mine is 1 inch, yours may be different, they make an adhesive specifically designed for that foam, it won’t react with or melt it in any way, but I just cut it so it slipped into the cavities, that foam comes in 1/2,1,1 1/2, 2, and 2 1/2 inches
I would like to see the Fred's DIY School method and then add the double reflective in a sheet, covering the entire door, because, believe it or not, you are still getting air seeping between the joints. That would seal the entire door face. But you also have to think about sealing the gaps on the sides and at the top/bottom, because you will have a ton of air moving in and out of the garage.
Could you please let me know where I could purchase the Owens Corning NGX R-5 insulation kit. I have been searching online and have only found the R-8 fiberglass. Your assistance is appreciated.
Great clip, thx for the data. I note others warning of OC requiring a thermal barrier but I see it advertised as garage door insulation. Any additional knowledge since you made this video? I was wondering about a reflectix underneath as well as tape around the edges instead of spray. Thoughts?
Great video and appreciate the effort which went into making it. I planned to buy some of the double reflective material and after seeing the results which you got, I am satisfied that they are close enough, when compared to the more expensive options, and should also be easy to fit. My garage door has kind of raised parts on the inside, so hoping that by glueing the material to these parts, that this will leave an air gap. Hopefully that helps. Late afternoon sun here in southern Spain is brutal, so I am hoping this stuff makes a difference to my garage door temperatures. Just waiting for Amazon to deliver.
This was great to see how HEAT would transfer through the garage door. I'm interesting in COLD. Radiant heat. vs insulation / R Factor are different I'm not convinced the results would be the same in winter.
Heat and cold are exactly the same thing, only the direction is different. You're measuring heat transfer from hot areas to cold ones. In the summer heat outside comes in, in winter heat inside goes out.
I'm sure you are going to get this a lot - but EMISSIVITY MATTERS! Pointing an IR gun at or near anything IR reflective like several of these insulation faces are means any readings are really questionable. The paper helped, but was not thermally bonded to the substrate - so overall this is not a great setup. Additionally, the view of the IR guns is a cone shape, and it can get quite large as you are farther from your test subject. Which in this Bottom line, all the material faces need to have a very similar emissivity for the test to be valid. XPS Foamular has an emissivity around .6, whereas the aluminized products are very close to 0 - effectively an IR mirror. With this in mind, I'd wager that the XPS Foamular product exceeded the reflectix performance to a much greater degree than the data presented would suggest. And I'd almost bet the 2" rigid with aluminized coating should have exceeded the performance of a 1" XPS if the data was valid.
Cool experiment but to be honest I would like to see a more controled experiment done inside so the varibles such as lighting and heat can actually be controled. The pannels should also be verticle so each pannel gets the same amount of heat and I would say at least a 2 foot buffer zone from the corners as well. Sit the heaters inside at a certain temp then take your readings from outside.
PS if you do use my idea please give Pawsuasive Dog Teaching a shout out. My Ruby Doo is a resue that had a warning on her paperwork to have 2 people handle her. They also told me she would be impossible to teach. Now she knows over 60 service dog commands and 20 objects by name.
For the panels with a reflective side, it makes a difference which way you orient the reflective side. Face in if you want to keep heat in, face out if you want to keep heat out. The insulated cells could be extra effective for climates that expirience hot and cold extreemes as you could make one side face out and one side face in. Just a thought.
Pretty sure that purple Owen's is a fire hazard and code violation. Isn''t it supposed to covered by something? That's why Owen's makes a specific garage door kit, that has a specific cover for the insulation. I wouldn't put the purple Owens in your garage uncovered, especially in a shop.
Just buy a winterized insulated garage door and then add a layer of rigid foam on your own. Amazing results! In your case you and also use a foam friendly construction adhesive to adhere another inch or more of rigid foam formular to each panel YIU already filled with formular.
Nils, this video is the best ever. I work in my garage every day and getting it to hold the correct temperature would be a lifesaver. Thank you for these tips and I'll be insulating soon.
@@LRN2DIY What I wanted to know was not the garage door heat difference but the overall garage temperature. Do you recall how much the entire garage temperature went down by?
great video! looking forward to HOW that garage's ceiling & walls get INSULATED! please do that FIRST, before the cooling part. Or, so its done here in SW FL, USA 🙂
That would be good to try, yeah. There are many ways to improve this test, like testing it on a south facing garage door in Las Vegas in July as well as an extreme cold test. I feel like this gave me a good idea at least, so it's a start.
****I've repaired, serviced, replaced THOUSANDS of garage doors over the years. IMPORTANT: You cannot just add 10 to 24 pounds to a basic garage door (160-180 pounds) without compensating properly for the weight added without it wearing out the opener or more. After adding insulation, hire a reputable garage door company (that installs oil tempered springs) to come weigh your door and installed HIGH CYCLE OIL TEMPERED (BLACK) TORSION SPRINGS and get rid of those junky zinc plated springs that most companies LOVE to sell (because they last 2-3 years and they get return work from you). I would install 20k+ cycle springs (those zinc plated go 8k cycles with normal usage that last 2-3 years). BTW, if you just wind up the springs more the garage door opener will have to work harder to close the door because when the door is opened all the way there is a lot of spring wind/torsion/lift still on the cables attached to the door. Springs need to be PROPERLY SIZED to the WEIGHT of the door. 7' high doors springs are typically wound ~7.5 times (and stretched a turn ahead and back). I found that zinc coated torsion springs stretched a LOT over time and constantly needed to be tightened up (can tell because they BROKE ALL THE TIME or DOOR WOULD NOT OPEN CUZ TOO HEAVY FOR OPENER; Openers should only lift properly balanced doors; they do not lift more than about 5-10 pounds of inertia weight; they do not LIFT the door; they open a well balanced door), which takes away from the 8k cycles they are rated at on a 7' door, while OT springs stretch VERY LITTLE...maybe a 1/2 turn and that's over many years. My springs were rated at 20k cycles or better and I would give up to 10 year warranty for those parts.****
great video and that involved a lot of work. for the double reflective insulation, did you leave an air gap between the garage door and the insulation? Supposedly about a 0.5 to 1 inch gap makes a big difference. I ask because its the cheapest, lightest, and easy to install. Curious to see results for a double layer of the reflective insulation with an air gap between the garage and an air gap between the two layers. I think it would be similar to Freds DIY insulation result but lighter and easier to install
Great effort on this video. BTW, there is another option for keys that is less expensieve than dealer and faster than using a service like you describe. Any LEGITIMATE automotive locksmith can do that even if you have lost your keys for less than the dealer. I work for Pop-A-Lock and do it all day long whether duplicates of existing keys of lost keys replaced. Nobody should be going to a dealer for this!
One I've seen (and wanted to try myself) is the double reflective and 1" formular. I forget which way is best, the reflective first or reflective second.. but either way, that's what I had seen and wanted to try myself.
Thanks for the comparison, I need to insulate my garage door against the Texas summer heat. My hot water heater is also in the garage, and I was thinking of replacing it with a hybrid heat-pump unit. That may help cool the garage while heating the water. Any thoughts?
While I've never actually worked with a hybrid water heater, given that you're in a warm area and the added noise probably isn't a big deal, yeah - I could see that making a lot of sense for you. They're fairly pricey but if it helps cool down your garage enough to where you don't feel the need to get an A/C unit, then that helps offset the cost, plus the monthly savings vs traditional water heater. I'd love to hear about it if you end up going that route.
Got a heat pump water heater 2 months ago. It knocked down the humidity right away and made the space much better in the hot humid Florida summer. Got a Rheem, It's not loud for being in the garage
But how long did you wait for the heaters to warm everything up? It's one thing to just measure outside temps, it's a totally different thing to measure the radiation that went through the insulation.
The red dot isn't where you're measuring. They measure a cone, so the further you are away form the surface, the larger area you are measuring the average temperature of. Try pointing it at a candle flame and moving it away and watch the number drop. You need to have it real close to ensure it's only measuring the surface you're pointing it at.
Awesome, I find your videos very useful. I was just watching several other videos on this subject for my weekend project. As I watched the last I was notified your was just put online. Yeah for setting the Bell for your favorite subscribers posting. Perfect timing!
That's awesome, Jeff. Glad you were able to find it at just the right time for you. This one was a lot of fun to make and I love getting some (at least somewhat) definitive answers on the best way to get a job done. Best of luck!
I think you may have missed one variable. You were just measuring surface temperatures, but some of those insulations are rigid and are likely letting more heat escape into the garage around the edges. I feel like the best solution is going to be something that's soft and will fill in the gaps or a combination of soft and rigid.
did you try the ridged foam with the reflective foil on one side and a small air gap with the door? i will be insulating my door with the purple foam and thin reflective ridged foam next month. great video keep up the good work
Great video! I'm sure that was a lot of work. One thing I've noticed about our insulated garage door is the metal parts of the door (that you see on the inside of the garage) radiate a lot of heat and can still burn you. Yes, the idea is to knock out the largest source of heat, which you do with the insulation panels, but it would be nice if there was a way to minimize the metal parts also. I've installed radiant barrier film in the attic, and I've considered covering the inside of my door with that. Does anyone know of another solution?
What you are talking about is called thermal bridging. I haven't found a great way to solve that problem since the metal hinges need to move, so whatever used would need to be flexable enough and not get in the way.
So is the temp in your garage now much lower? I see the temps of the door are substantially decreased but unsure what real world benefits would be. I say this as a south floridian without winters so im curious. Thanks for the great videos
I'm going to have to get back to you on that. I've been so busy on other parts of the garage that I haven't actually finished insulating the door. Plus, it's really important to seal the air gaps on the top and sides of the door as part of this process. I'll be using the 1.5" Formular NGX but from what I've researched it can have a substantial impact on your garage when you're heating or cooling the space, which I will be.
The reading on the non contact thermometer depends on the emissivity of the surface. If you want an accurate measurement then put some PVC tape on the surface and measure the temperature of that. You will need to be real close to ensure the full sensor field of view is enveloped by the tape... Or just use a contact thermometer...
My door doesn’t have the “cavities” to keep the insulation in place. It’s just smooth. If I were to choose the 1” Owen’s Corning NGX, what adhesive would you recommend I use? Or something other than adhesive? Thx.
Tom's Key rocks! Turns out we have a mutual friend :) Mike is my brother-in-law. Great video. I purchased a roll of the double reflective insulation but haven't installed it yet. Bought before watching your video. Looks like it will definitely make a difference for cheap. Interested to see the results this summer. You have a new subscriber.
Thanks for all the effort put into this. A couple tips to improve accuracy:
1 - The laser dot is marking the center of a circle and the temp is averaged within the circle. The diameter of the circle is dependent on the distance and the angle set by the manufacturer. Check the manual for this info.
2 - the paper wasn't making good contact with the insulation, so there was very little conductive heat transfer.
3 - paint a black matte section directly on the insulation and read the temp off of that at a close range for the best accuracy (verify w/ a thermocouple taped to the service, or similar).
Also the outside temperatures were pretty varied. So, Idk if percent reduction in temperature is all that useful when comparing one panel with a 220 degree outside temp to another with a 180 degree outside temp.
Agree about #3, there's no control for the different emissivity of the materials. Not sure how accurate this analysis ended up being.
Exactly, that is one reason he was getting the different temps on the outside, especially between the two temp guns. 1 foot difference in distance makes a huge difference in temp reading.
Would like to see another video with a lil mom consistency
@@brendancurtin679 I agree that it should be realistic.
By the way, I've also installed a mini split AC in my garage. I used the 24,000 BTU unit from Senville for our 3-car garage, which is much cheaper than most units at $1250 US dollars at the time I purchased in Feb of 2023. A guy in my neighborhood installed one before me and he recommended it based on their price, and phone support. He called all of the main companies and Senville's support was the best. I can attest to the support because I ran into an issue with the AC drain pan connector leaking, and they sent me a whole new inside unit. I was initially considering the 18,000 BTU unit, but I'm glad I went bigger. I left unit going nonstop during the hot months and set to 76 degree, it felt really cool in there. It's so nice! One thing I'll warn you of is be thinking about what you'll do with the condensation. These units can fill a 5 gallon bucket in a day, and the ground will be saturated where the drain line drips. I ran PVC to a flowerbed about 10 feet away and the plants in that area love the extra water.
Great video comparison! Having a 100° garage was very unpleasant! After 2 years with my insulation I have to say that my garage is much more people friendly now. Thanks for the shout out!
Where do I buy your product Mr.Fred. I want to put in my garage door.
Would painting the exterior garage door with ceramic paint help with the R-value?
After watching this i was about to go get some OC Foamular boards for my garage but luckily did some quick research. Owens Corning warns against using their boards in this manner because they are combustible and require a thermal barrier. I hope you put up a disclaimer.
Did you find a replacement?
As some one who lives in PA. It would be amazing to have this test done in the winter.
IR thermometers measurement is dependant upon the emissivity of the material. If you want accurate results then stick some black pvc tape on and ensure it completely covers the field of view ( touch it against the material or cover a much larger area than you're measuring.)
This can completely change the readings.
Came here for this comment, and agree totally.
that's why he was using the paper...
Also get closer. The laser dot is just for aiming - these IR thermometers read from a cone, 10:1 for the Klein single-laser unit. That means reading from 8' is measuring a bigger spot than the paper.
@@slamdvw... Also, looking through the IR camera from 8:15 is clear that the paper is only warm in about the middle third, where the tape is holding it near the insulation. The "wings" that curve away from the wall are almost room temperature. Interestingly, you can also see the "heat reflection" of the foil-based insulators.
What are you talking about)))) look's like this guy took IR thermometer for the first time in his life🤣🤣🤣
I did the 1" foam board on my door a few years ago and have had excellent results.
Great video. However, please note that Owens Corning Foamular products are combustible and must be covered by a 15-minute thermal barrier I would not recommend using Foamular to insulate a garage door.
Why
@@challengerking4358 bc fire bad
@@challengerking4358 fuel, oxygen and spark. That is how things combust.🤦🏻♂️
Nonsense
Literally everything in my shop is combustible! 😂
Why is everyone so scared of these "torsion" garage door springs they are completely safe to DIY. They are not "tension" springs with hundreds or thousands of pounds of pressure on them. I really feel like there is this lie that people that overcharge to replace these springs "professionally" are perpetuating all over the place that they are super dangerous. Buy the $12 proper tools to adjust them and save $500 every time they fail, and fail they will because they don't hold up to as much use as we put them through now.
But if you do add insulation to the door you should not just "turn up your springs" you should replace them with heavier springs so they are not straining more against the load and will fail faster.
Torsion garage door springs are DIY friendly! Tell your friends!
The double reflective insulation is a radiant barrier and needs an air gap. If you install it on the inside ridges of the door with polyseamseal, it will seal the segments of door and have the highest R value with the least amount of weight.
I just used the Owens Corning fiberglass insulation on my 2 car garage 8 panel door and I only had to pay $142 from Lowe’s for the 2 kits. Not only is it warmer in my garage but the door is remarkably quieter when it’s operating.
This was a really informative and well done video. I will definitely use the information I learned here. I did want to make one suggestion: a percentage temperature drop isn't really an accurate conclusion from the results. The reason is that our temperature scales' zero points aren't really zero temperature. They're just arbitrary points on the spectrum we assigned to be 0. 0 Celsius is more useful than 0 Fahrenheit, obviously, but neither truly represents zero temperature. Point being, 100 degrees is not twice as hot as 50 degrees and a drop from 100 to 50 wouldn't really represent a 50% drop. The only way percentages would work would be if you were using the Kelvin scale, whose 0 point truly is zero heat at all. But since none of us think in that scale, everything else would be meaningless to us. I think using actual temperature drop would be a better measurement. I'm sure you converted to percentage because your outside high temps weren't all the same and you were trying to account for that, which makes sense, but I think the problems with percentages just compound the discrepancy.
Don’t pay attention to my username as I’ve had this account for like 13 years. I work as a garage door technician. You’re never supposed to add insulation to an uninsulated door without changing the springs. The springs are designed by weight so adding to it after will screw that up.
So if you’re planning on adding DIY insulation, also plan on paying $300+ for new springs. Adding more winds to the current springs will just reduce the life cycle and cause them to break prematurely. Garage doors are a lot more complicated than people realize.
I really appreciate thorough comparison of the techniques, their effectiveness and cost!
I would think the dominant factors are flammability, durability in presence of moisture, and weight. The pink foam flammability is scary to me, I won't be doing that though it seems like best option otherwise. The eps (not xps extruded) styrofoam can absorb water I thought. Sealing it like Fred's method seems like asking for trouble. But maybe the foil faced foam options deal with water so those then stand out as best. That service call to adjust spring will cost more than the entire installation so there's that...
I still haven't done the insulation because I was wondering what method to use from the different videos on UA-cam but you did the work for me, now I know which one I'll use. Just EXCELLENT !!! Great video, Thank you !
With those IR thermometers the further away you read, the more area you are getting the measure from... the laser dot seems to be the only point you are measuring but read the manual and it will tell you the area being read with distance...
Great info. I'll have to experiment with that to see what that might change.
The thin reflective sheet could be mounted with an air gap. So they could have been mounted to the door frame rather than the door panels.
This would add a R value of about 1, excluding the thermal conductivity of any material installed between the door and the sheet to keep the air in place. Per my calculations, that would bring the option up to an R value of about 3.8.
I think another yt video mention that without the air gap the double reflective insulation became heat conductor and be less effective. Any reflective material is for repelling radiant heat transfer not for stopping conduction heat.
How I installed mine. Made a solid difference but not sure exact numbers
what about to keep heat in during the winter?
As I understand it, the double reflective stuff is supposed to have an air gap. It's in the instructions. Using the reflective stuff as the final layer in Fred's method would likely increase the efficiency.
A few years ago I did an install using the owens corning kit and then went around the edges with foil tape. It was a literal night and day difference in the garage temps. I did have to have a local company come out and replace my springs due to the added weight on a double door, but it was completely worth it! I also want to add, you should have your door springs adjusted regularly, it’s cheap to have them come out and they do lose tension over time and tend to stabilize after about 2 years of daily use. It’s not really a one and done thing.
I agree completely. I adjust my door springs myself after watching my installer and watching several UA-cam videos. ( I’ve been involved in home construction for years).
You could combine the Owen's Corning NGX with the lightweight double reflective insulation that is taped to the frame, and give you an air gap between them. That might be the best combination.
That would be a great one to try for sure!
I did this as well for my garage door. Made it bearable in the summer with a west facing garage door in the south.
do you mean the double reflective bit goes first in the slot and then the NGX?
I actually just did this! Double reflective insulation before putting on the NGX and it’s made a huge difference. So much of the heat doesn’t enter the garage now 👍🏽
The least effective at 43% is actually the best value, and since the max performer is 56%, the performance between the two isn't quite as much as you might think. If it was me, I'd simply take all the bubble wrap I get from Amazon and See's and get to work taping them up. In most cases, the bottom line isn't heat flow, but the cost to heat or cool the heat flow. "Cost" includes mechanical heating and cooling, but also includes the insulation treatment. It actually takes rather little improvement of a bare metal panel to make a big difference in performance. The first 4 of "R" are the most impactful.
It's worth noting that is only true on the day of purchase but as time goes on your heating or ac cost will likely trump that initial cost difference.
You cannot take percentages of degree measurements and compare them. It's meaningless. What's 10% of zero degrees? You have to convert to Kelvin first.
Awesome video as always!
I live in London in a 1960s era apartment block with no insulation (it's crazy, I know). I'm on the 10th floor and have a wall of windows that are 80s-90s era but so drafty in the winter wind. I've done all the rubber strips and plastic sheeting stuff, but what really works is putting in foam panels in the windows! Yes it blocks the view, but when I wake up for work in winter it's dark outside and when I get home from work it's dark already, so it's no big deal. The foam is pretty easy to work with for beginners and is renter friendly.
Very interesting! Thanks for the summary at the end - I love that the top two in performance didn't add too much weight, were economical, and one is pretty quick and easy to install. Could be interesting to add in the insulation installed by a garage door company to the test.
Hey Mike, for sure. There are a dozen or more other solutions that would be fun to try but at least, like you mentioned, there are some efficient and inexpensive options to start with.
Reflective face insulation is by far most effective with an air gap. It usually says so on the insulation board itself. It's manufactured to be used as sub-siding with either vinyl siding or brick on the outside, creating that inherent gap.
The DIY Fred solution is just following recommendations from the insulation maker, and then doubling it up because why not?
IR thermometers measure an average of an area in a cone that gets bigger the further you are away from the thing. So when your pointing it at those panels you aren't getting the temperature of where the laser is, that's just to help aim and is grossly misleading.
13:57 the Springs are considered a wear product that occasionally will require replacement. Tighter springs result in shorter life, so the cost of the added insulation could escalate
True, and probably best to oversize springs when replacement time comes.
Great tip on the rebalancing the garage door spring. I hadn't thought of that.
There is a lot of these vids out there and it's a great project for the DIY person. one thing that is often left out is the insulation adds extra weight to the door. not a ton but still extra. I learned this the hard way. That extra weight also wears on your springs and can shorten their life.
Having the lower panels much hotter than the upper panels completely invalidates your test. The higher temperature on the outside will greatly increase the amount of heat radiated outward and thus a good part of your “greater” temperature differential inside to outside has nothing to do with the insulation on the inside, but is due to a faulty test. You need to test again ensuring that you have the exact same temperature on the outside of each panel.
Yep. This exactly.
TBH, I also question the overall utility of this. I'm sure it helps some but with all those gaps in a garage door, the thing's gonna leak heat like a sieve no matter what you do.
The lower panels are hotter because the insulation, all the heat that would be leaking through the door is being isolated on the outside since the insulation isnt letting it through. So you could actually use these outside panel temps to show which insulation is better as well
Remember, the lower panels will probably be hotter due to proximity to the concrete landing in front of the garage. Depending on how hot it is outside, the lower panels may be exposed to more heat.
I would have just kept ambient temp outside and heated or cooled inside the garage and monitored the face temps of the panels. You need to adhere the same material to the inside, and make sure the thermometer is only measuring that material for emissivity reasons. The IR thermometer measures a circle much bigger than the laser dot.
@@ColonelSandersLite It makes a huge difference. Just make sure you don't have air gaps around the door.
My garage door here in N Cakilaky has a ton of "hurricane strapping" that would have to be removed and then reinstalled for everything but the thinnest insulation you used. We did the thin foam insulation in our garage in Idaho and it helped a ton with the cold winters there. Thanks for the great video I enjoy your scientific experiments and the DIY stuff too! I wonder what two layers of the tinfoil bubble wrap with airgaps would do??
I have used Tom’s Key and it worked fantastic, was easy and extra keys programmed all work perfectly. Would recommend to anyone. The local Chrysler dealer was a major rip off.
Most of the heat leak will come through the metal of the garage door itself. You should try a kit that attached to the inside of the metal. I was able to cut the kit so that when closed it butts up pretty tightly together and you take the hinges off 1 or 2 at a time and run the foam and radiant barrier underneath. The screws will still conduct but it also makes the door significantly quieter in operation as well
Great comparison! Thank-you!
I installed 1” rigid foam board on my garage door a few years ago. It helps, especially when the afternoon sun hits the garage door. Insulating the garage attic made a much larger difference! It now stays 9-10 degrees cooler in summer, compared to the outdoor temperature, and 9-10 degrees warmer in cold weather. We also had a mini-split installed. REALLY NICE!
Question: how to install/best way to install rigid foam board into those panels on the garage door. I found a couple ways, have never been satisfied with the results. Any guidance, perhaps a video, would be most appreciated.
Love your channel! Thanks again!
Infrared thermometers do not measure just where the dot is. They measure in a cone which gets bigger as you get farther away. Since the emissivity of metal is far different from foam, your temp measurements will not be accurate because you're measuring areas beyond the paper. Your IR camera has an emissivity adjustment that you need to set for the material you're measuring to calibrate the readings.
Excellent video - thanks! I used 2" rigid foam insulation on my garage doors, but I installed it with the silver side facing out to better reflect the heat. I tried it both ways before doing the whole thing and it was much cooler with the silver side facing out.
As a garage door guy I recommend the bubble insulation. Any of the other choices not just required adding tension but to do it properly the spring needs to get changed to match the new doors weight. That repair is usually more than the cost of insulation. If you want to go with the thicker stuff I recommend doing it when you're already planning on changing out the springs. Springs are only rated for 10,000 cycles and depending on how you use your door those 10,000 can add up pretty quickly.
From what i have researched, gauge, length, quarter turn all determine what can be lifted and the gauge usually determines life cycle if done correctly. But in most calculators they give a range. This method is adding 10lbs so likely can still be within spec
@@2mustange Probably, but not certain. You'll probably get away with not replacing the spring.... But, the other thing is how old is it? If its pretty old might as well replace it,.. Its easy to get sucked down a rabbit hole by adding the weight. just be prepared to. I think Johnson's advice is spot on. Most doors are out of balance, now add 10 pounds? Its going to show it even more. So, if you're planning to add weight, you should be prepared for someone to come out and rebalance it. This is NOT a DIY project they are stupid dangerous.
Well they do make high life cycle springs that are made to last past 10k
@@2mustangeit depends on the door length and height really. Not all doors will just be adding 10lbs. You’re not supposed to add insulation to an uninsulated door after springs have already been installed for uninsulated weight. Just asking for one to break then you’ll be out of pocket $300-400 for a new set. Some companies charge $400+ in some states. Garage doors are a lot more complicated than people realize.
@@2mustange I have software that gives my technicians exact numbers 🤷 and really a lot more goes into it than that. The doors weight, drum size and radius all go into engineering the proper spring size. Does it have high lift or is it pitched at a angle, that all changes the IPPT and in turn changes either the gauge wire and or length. If you want more cycles you will have a longer spring but that will also change the gauge needed to match the IPPT. If you run out of room and go too long to fit you can play with the diameter and make it larger or smaller to get different results or even go with a quad spring setup.
The Formular NGX does not take 1 minute to install each panel. By the end of my install I got down to about 10-15 minutes per panel.
Minor suggestions: most paint reflect some Infrared, which is how the thermal temperature measuring devices works. So you might have been getting a reflection of the heat source when making the outside measurements. Best to turn off the outside heat source and move them out of the reflection line, or just use a direct contact thermometer. None of this should change the relative performance between the samples though. It just might have exaggerated the temp difference.
Great test. I like the results you came up with. Remember if you add weight it might not just be adding tension to existing springs but a completely new set of springs. Additional new doors use thermal breaks so the outside metal cant transfer heat inside this also helps improve the U-factor. See Clopay IECC compliance.
My garage is south-facing and very hot in the summer with internal temperatures slightly higher than the ambient temperature. This test was very helpful, thank you!
I insulated our garage door with styrofoam panels, and it didn't make much difference in the garage temperature, BUT it definitely decreased the icy draft flowing down the door in winter. Comfort level is much higher.
Door faces north, single garage is in walk-out (and drive-out) basement, almost 100% underground with living spaces above and on one side. Keeping cold out is more important then keeping heat out.
Omg even tho I wasn’t gonna do anything with my garage door, your video made me watch the whole thing😂 super interesting and informative!
Glad you liked it and thanks for checking it out!
I agree with those who suggest the percentage should be based on the absolute scale. But it doesn't matter for heat flow, which is only dependent on the difference in temperature. Q=kΔT.
I estimated the actual R values, taking into account the R value of the door itself (Δ20°F). I get the following, normalized to R5 Formular. (Estimate is +/- 10%.)
Door Δ20°F - R1.7
Silver reflector Δ55°F - R2.8
Gap filler foam Δ57°F - R2.9
R8 FG Δ61°F - R3.1
2" Rigid Foam Δ77°F - R4.0
R5 Formular Δ97°F - R5.0
DIY Fred Δ100°F - R5.2
I think the most interesting question is why the R8 fiberglass performed so poorly. Possibly because it was pushed in collapsing the depth.
Awesome! We are about to do this with our garage due to a significant temperature difference between it and the living spaces, as well as it being under living spaces. Can't wait to see your winter comparison as well!
On the solid owens corning closed cell the 1" and add an air gap. Then the reflective over that also taping the sides.
The reflective works better with an airgap you you put it right on the metal it lowers the effects, thats why the bottom left one works the best.
As far as getting a 2" thick sheet in, no problem, cut it into 2x2 squars
Pluse the 6" the side rails are 3" each side added. Take a circlur saw and cut a groove down the center you slide one side in add gap filler then slide the other side infill the gap with spray foam and run foil tape over it.
One big draw back with a foam insulation if it burns it gives off very toxic gases, by code it cant be exposed. You have to have a 2 hour firewall over it.
Great timing as temperatures are changing. Now I won't be running the heater non stop! Thanks for the info!
You bet, and thanks for watching! I'm excited to get my garage outfitted to not lose heat/cold air as well!
Any thoughts to maybe checking how well the garage door manufacturers insulation works? Pretty affordable. Made for the doors, and look like it is supposed to be there. 5 of your 6 options actually call for different springs than a non insulated door torsion system. I get what you are trying to do, but you will cost the viewer more money by not knowing what IPPT is and how its calculated.
Just an FYI, you can’t use percentages with temperature like that. Temperature difference is important, but percentage is meaningless. Convert your temperatures to Celsius, Kelvin, or Rankin and you’ll get different percentages, which tells you there’s a problem.
No. Because while the value of the percentage is different it still means the same as long as you use the same scale for each panel
@@soccerguy2433 as the type of engineer who deals specifically in heat transfer, you’re wrong. Percentages should NEVER be applied to temperatures. Even sticking to the same scale.
For example, if the outside temp is 100° and inside is 80°, the insulation is providing a 20° delta. If outside is 120° but inside is 100°, the insulation is exactly the same and providing the same resistance to heat flow, but percentages would suggest it’s different. (16% vs 20%). The point is you can not use percentage to compare temperature. Doesn’t matter if the scale is the same.
So based on the information in the video which do you say is the most effect.
Thanks Mr Meteorologist
@@soccerguy2433 using the percent scale, which is rated better: a panel that reads 5° C on one side and 1° C on the other or one that reads 30° C and 10° C? Which do you think is actually better at blocking heat transfer?
Awesome review!!! Thanx a million. Regardless of the naysayers and critics, the rest of us appreciate the simple review and comparison. Definitely food for thought. God Bless!!
thank you for taking the time to do this experiment. I dont have a lot of 170 degree days where I live. I don't understand the rationale behind the experiment, why not just use direct sunlight? Also insulation in a garage might also be used to keep it warm. I don't believe reflective material insulates as well from cold as it does from radiant heat.
it's not just tensioning the spring, the garage door specialist said they could add extra turns, but it would probably eventually break the spring. Needed to upgrade the spring to compensate for the extra weight.
I insulated my garage with Polyisocyanurate reflective foam (R9.6) spaced with wooden pieces (kind of what they use to seperate wood on pallets with)from door (air gapped) makes a huge difference. Used aluminum tape to seal air gaps around foam/frame
Very interesting and affordable methods to improve the comfort in the garage. I think it would be interesting to do a modified test of the Owens Corning pink with the reflective insulation against the door and/or add the spacing similar to Mr Fred's DYI Garage School method to create an air gap between the pink foam and the door
I really appreciate you doing this video. I have been researching for a solution for our three car garage. I found the cell system and was impressed but was not sure if I should go with that solution. Now I will decide either Cell or the Corning. Thank you so much.
*This is excellent information! I've been searching for something like this for about a month now, and I'm delighted to see a study that compares various insulation options. I'm currently in the process of insulating my garage, and I believe this study will provide valuable insights to anyone undertaking a similar project. Thank you for sharing this valuable research!*
12:13 You CANNOT do a Percentage decrease in temperature in the manner. It's wildly unscientific. Fahrenheit and Celsius are arbitrary scales with arbitrary zero points.
First, if you're even going to think about doing percentages it MUST be done in Kelvin only.
Second, even in Kelvin it shows an incredible lack of understanding on how heat transfer works. Keep it simple, degrees (in any units) difference from ambient. But, you must keep the ambient constant.
I always roll my eyes when someone puts a temp change in percentage. Makes no sense at all. Lol
I’ve done the 1 inch pink foam, many times, very easy, effective and cheap. The fiberglass I’ve replaced several times for people the temp change loosens up the adhesive and the clips bend and fall out over time
How do you attached the 1" pink foam? The gap seems to be 2".
@@Crydes mine is 1 inch, yours may be different, they make an adhesive specifically designed for that foam, it won’t react with or melt it in any way, but I just cut it so it slipped into the cavities, that foam comes in 1/2,1,1 1/2, 2, and 2 1/2 inches
I would like to see the Fred's DIY School method and then add the double reflective in a sheet, covering the entire door, because, believe it or not, you are still getting air seeping between the joints. That would seal the entire door face. But you also have to think about sealing the gaps on the sides and at the top/bottom, because you will have a ton of air moving in and out of the garage.
Add the small air gap before the pink foam and you have a cheap solution to all your problems
Could you please let me know where I could purchase the Owens Corning NGX R-5 insulation kit. I have been searching online and have only found the R-8 fiberglass. Your assistance is appreciated.
Great clip, thx for the data. I note others warning of OC requiring a thermal barrier but I see it advertised as garage door insulation. Any additional knowledge since you made this video? I was wondering about a reflectix underneath as well as tape around the edges instead of spray. Thoughts?
Great video and appreciate the effort which went into making it. I planned to buy some of the double reflective material and after seeing the results which you got, I am satisfied that they are close enough, when compared to the more expensive options, and should also be easy to fit. My garage door has kind of raised parts on the inside, so hoping that by glueing the material to these parts, that this will leave an air gap. Hopefully that helps. Late afternoon sun here in southern Spain is brutal, so I am hoping this stuff makes a difference to my garage door temperatures. Just waiting for Amazon to deliver.
Thank you! I’ve been interested in insulating my one-car garage shop for a while now and this is incredibly helpful. 😁
This was great to see how HEAT would transfer through the garage door. I'm interesting in COLD. Radiant heat. vs insulation / R Factor are different I'm not convinced the results would be the same in winter.
Heat and cold are exactly the same thing, only the direction is different. You're measuring heat transfer from hot areas to cold ones. In the summer heat outside comes in, in winter heat inside goes out.
I'm sure you are going to get this a lot - but EMISSIVITY MATTERS! Pointing an IR gun at or near anything IR reflective like several of these insulation faces are means any readings are really questionable. The paper helped, but was not thermally bonded to the substrate - so overall this is not a great setup. Additionally, the view of the IR guns is a cone shape, and it can get quite large as you are farther from your test subject. Which in this
Bottom line, all the material faces need to have a very similar emissivity for the test to be valid. XPS Foamular has an emissivity around .6, whereas the aluminized products are very close to 0 - effectively an IR mirror.
With this in mind, I'd wager that the XPS Foamular product exceeded the reflectix performance to a much greater degree than the data presented would suggest. And I'd almost bet the 2" rigid with aluminized coating should have exceeded the performance of a 1" XPS if the data was valid.
Great video. I had no idea how much heat went through my garage door until I got a thermal camera for Christmas.
Cool experiment but to be honest I would like to see a more controled experiment done inside so the varibles such as lighting and heat can actually be controled. The pannels should also be verticle so each pannel gets the same amount of heat and I would say at least a 2 foot buffer zone from the corners as well. Sit the heaters inside at a certain temp then take your readings from outside.
PS if you do use my idea please give Pawsuasive Dog Teaching a shout out. My Ruby Doo is a resue that had a warning on her paperwork to have 2 people handle her. They also told me she would be impossible to teach. Now she knows over 60 service dog commands and 20 objects by name.
Home Depot says all the products you linked too are no longer available.
Nice video. The Foamular NGX 1" in Reno NV Sep 2024 is $32 a sheet or $128 for a 16'x8' door!
For the panels with a reflective side, it makes a difference which way you orient the reflective side. Face in if you want to keep heat in, face out if you want to keep heat out. The insulated cells could be extra effective for climates that expirience hot and cold extreemes as you could make one side face out and one side face in. Just a thought.
Looked up the winner today and it’s 43 dollars per 4x8 sheet.
Foil backed hard 2” foam insulation to provide a radiant barrier would probably be the best option for speed/weight/price.
Pretty sure that purple Owen's is a fire hazard and code violation. Isn''t it supposed to covered by something? That's why Owen's makes a specific garage door kit, that has a specific cover for the insulation. I wouldn't put the purple Owens in your garage uncovered, especially in a shop.
Just buy a winterized insulated garage door and then add a layer of rigid foam on your own. Amazing results! In your case you and also use a foam friendly construction adhesive to adhere another inch or more of rigid foam formular to each panel YIU already filled with formular.
can really effectively insulate a thin tin door like that, a little here or there but nothing like an exterior home wall
Nils, this video is the best ever. I work in my garage every day and getting it to hold the correct temperature would be a lifesaver. Thank you for these tips and I'll be insulating soon.
Thanks so much, Mitch. I'm sure your garage will feel quite a bit better once you insulate that door, especially with that California heat, brother!
@@LRN2DIY
What I wanted to know was not the garage door heat difference but the overall garage temperature. Do you recall how much the entire garage temperature went down by?
Great and useful video! Considering the cost of a tech to tweak the springs, what weight could you add without adjusting the springs?
great video! looking forward to HOW that garage's ceiling & walls get INSULATED! please do that FIRST, before the cooling part. Or, so its done here in SW FL, USA 🙂
I don't know how long you had the heater on the outside spot but I think the real test, which would be pretty hard to do, is eight hours in the heat.
That would be good to try, yeah. There are many ways to improve this test, like testing it on a south facing garage door in Las Vegas in July as well as an extreme cold test. I feel like this gave me a good idea at least, so it's a start.
****I've repaired, serviced, replaced THOUSANDS of garage doors over the years. IMPORTANT: You cannot just add 10 to 24 pounds to a basic garage door (160-180 pounds) without compensating properly for the weight added without it wearing out the opener or more. After adding insulation, hire a reputable garage door company (that installs oil tempered springs) to come weigh your door and installed HIGH CYCLE OIL TEMPERED (BLACK) TORSION SPRINGS and get rid of those junky zinc plated springs that most companies LOVE to sell (because they last 2-3 years and they get return work from you). I would install 20k+ cycle springs (those zinc plated go 8k cycles with normal usage that last 2-3 years). BTW, if you just wind up the springs more the garage door opener will have to work harder to close the door because when the door is opened all the way there is a lot of spring wind/torsion/lift still on the cables attached to the door. Springs need to be PROPERLY SIZED to the WEIGHT of the door. 7' high doors springs are typically wound ~7.5 times (and stretched a turn ahead and back). I found that zinc coated torsion springs stretched a LOT over time and constantly needed to be tightened up (can tell because they BROKE ALL THE TIME or DOOR WOULD NOT OPEN CUZ TOO HEAVY FOR OPENER; Openers should only lift properly balanced doors; they do not lift more than about 5-10 pounds of inertia weight; they do not LIFT the door; they open a well balanced door), which takes away from the 8k cycles they are rated at on a 7' door, while OT springs stretch VERY LITTLE...maybe a 1/2 turn and that's over many years. My springs were rated at 20k cycles or better and I would give up to 10 year warranty for those parts.****
great video and that involved a lot of work. for the double reflective insulation, did you leave an air gap between the garage door and the insulation? Supposedly about a 0.5 to 1 inch gap makes a big difference. I ask because its the cheapest, lightest, and easy to install. Curious to see results for a double layer of the reflective insulation with an air gap between the garage and an air gap between the two layers. I think it would be similar to Freds DIY insulation result but lighter and easier to install
Great effort on this video. BTW, there is another option for keys that is less expensieve than dealer and faster than using a service like you describe. Any LEGITIMATE automotive locksmith can do that even if you have lost your keys for less than the dealer. I work for Pop-A-Lock and do it all day long whether duplicates of existing keys of lost keys replaced. Nobody should be going to a dealer for this!
One I've seen (and wanted to try myself) is the double reflective and 1" formular. I forget which way is best, the reflective first or reflective second.. but either way, that's what I had seen and wanted to try myself.
Great video! If you haven't done it already, compare wall insulation types against closed cell foam insulation.
Thanks for the comparison, I need to insulate my garage door against the Texas summer heat. My hot water heater is also in the garage, and I was thinking of replacing it with a hybrid heat-pump unit. That may help cool the garage while heating the water. Any thoughts?
While I've never actually worked with a hybrid water heater, given that you're in a warm area and the added noise probably isn't a big deal, yeah - I could see that making a lot of sense for you. They're fairly pricey but if it helps cool down your garage enough to where you don't feel the need to get an A/C unit, then that helps offset the cost, plus the monthly savings vs traditional water heater. I'd love to hear about it if you end up going that route.
@@LRN2DIY Thank you for your response. I'll let you know what happens if I get the chance to set it up.
Got a heat pump water heater 2 months ago. It knocked down the humidity right away and made the space much better in the hot humid Florida summer. Got a Rheem, It's not loud for being in the garage
But how long did you wait for the heaters to warm everything up? It's one thing to just measure outside temps, it's a totally different thing to measure the radiation that went through the insulation.
The red dot isn't where you're measuring. They measure a cone, so the further you are away form the surface, the larger area you are measuring the average temperature of. Try pointing it at a candle flame and moving it away and watch the number drop. You need to have it real close to ensure it's only measuring the surface you're pointing it at.
Awesome, I find your videos very useful. I was just watching several other videos on this subject for my weekend project. As I watched the last I was notified your was just put online. Yeah for setting the Bell for your favorite subscribers posting. Perfect timing!
That's awesome, Jeff. Glad you were able to find it at just the right time for you. This one was a lot of fun to make and I love getting some (at least somewhat) definitive answers on the best way to get a job done. Best of luck!
Dude- you’re in my head! Garage cooling AND decorative hardware are both on my list. Haha
I think you may have missed one variable. You were just measuring surface temperatures, but some of those insulations are rigid and are likely letting more heat escape into the garage around the edges. I feel like the best solution is going to be something that's soft and will fill in the gaps or a combination of soft and rigid.
will you do same for winter weather? curious how much warmer interior will be with each of your samples. Thank u.
did you try the ridged foam with the reflective foil on one side and a small air gap with the door?
i will be insulating my door with the purple foam and thin reflective ridged foam next month.
great video keep up the good work
Great video! I'm sure that was a lot of work. One thing I've noticed about our insulated garage door is the metal parts of the door (that you see on the inside of the garage) radiate a lot of heat and can still burn you. Yes, the idea is to knock out the largest source of heat, which you do with the insulation panels, but it would be nice if there was a way to minimize the metal parts also. I've installed radiant barrier film in the attic, and I've considered covering the inside of my door with that. Does anyone know of another solution?
What you are talking about is called thermal bridging. I haven't found a great way to solve that problem since the metal hinges need to move, so whatever used would need to be flexable enough and not get in the way.
Fantastic, thank you so much for your efforts. I will be going with the 1" formular.
So is the temp in your garage now much lower? I see the temps of the door are substantially decreased but unsure what real world benefits would be. I say this as a south floridian without winters so im curious. Thanks for the great videos
I'm going to have to get back to you on that. I've been so busy on other parts of the garage that I haven't actually finished insulating the door. Plus, it's really important to seal the air gaps on the top and sides of the door as part of this process. I'll be using the 1.5" Formular NGX but from what I've researched it can have a substantial impact on your garage when you're heating or cooling the space, which I will be.
The reading on the non contact thermometer depends on the emissivity of the surface. If you want an accurate measurement then put some PVC tape on the surface and measure the temperature of that. You will need to be real close to ensure the full sensor field of view is enveloped by the tape... Or just use a contact thermometer...
This is super helpful! Do you hand any ideas of hire you’re going to cover the insulation?
Great video. I love the window stickers.
Great video, all valuable information and gives me exactly the path forward
My door doesn’t have the “cavities” to keep the insulation in place. It’s just smooth. If I were to choose the 1” Owen’s Corning NGX, what adhesive would you recommend I use? Or something other than adhesive? Thx.
Tom's Key rocks! Turns out we have a mutual friend :) Mike is my brother-in-law. Great video. I purchased a roll of the double reflective insulation but haven't installed it yet. Bought before watching your video. Looks like it will definitely make a difference for cheap. Interested to see the results this summer. You have a new subscriber.