Medieval Misconceptions: the TRUE origin of the KNIFE SWORD - Messer

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  • Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
  • No, the messer or 'knife sword' was not made to allow peasants to carry a sword like weapon when sword carrying was illegal. Here's the real answer.
    Shadiversity meet and greet at the abbey medieval festival: abbeymedievalf...
    Source.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,6 тис.

  • @SpaceWaterfall1
    @SpaceWaterfall1 5 років тому +361

    So, is this a sword? **points at Messer**
    German knife guild: Well, yes, but actually no.

  • @Crusader-tg1wx
    @Crusader-tg1wx 4 роки тому +209

    The man who said “Never bring a knife to a sword fight,” has clearly never heard of the Kriegsmesser.

    • @PerSon-xg3zr
      @PerSon-xg3zr Рік тому +5

      I guess it was supposed to be "never bring a short to a long fight."

  • @Asha2820
    @Asha2820 5 років тому +797

    The two-handed knife only makes sense when you see how big the steaks were.

    • @LogicalMayhem00
      @LogicalMayhem00 5 років тому +22

      The steaks have never been higher meme with cows on a weed plantation.
      👌welcome to memes from the EU👌

    • @veronkrahss482
      @veronkrahss482 5 років тому

      XD

    • @ryanlorenzo5003
      @ryanlorenzo5003 5 років тому +12

      Have you SEEN those pike formations? You know the Swiss travel in herds.

    • @thedescendedangel
      @thedescendedangel 4 роки тому +6

      Those are some monster hunter level steaks.

    • @TheUnseenPath
      @TheUnseenPath 3 роки тому +2

      Tridents and pitchforks are the forks.

  • @juancholo7502
    @juancholo7502 5 років тому +660

    Once again, an Australian shows us a large bladed weapon & tells us "THAT'S a Knife". (^_^)

    • @lanasmith4795
      @lanasmith4795 4 роки тому +30

      You can't beat the classics

    • @inthefade
      @inthefade 4 роки тому +15

      It's a spoon

    • @dzhellek
      @dzhellek 4 роки тому +18

      @@inthefade there is no spoon. The movie references are piling up.

    • @qtulhoo
      @qtulhoo 4 роки тому +17

      dzhellek
      This is getting out of hand. There are two of them now!

    • @vorpalblades
      @vorpalblades 4 роки тому +9

      @@inthefade I see you've played knifey-spoony before...

  • @Agent719
    @Agent719 5 років тому +1093

    Dundee: That's not a knife, THIS is a knife.
    Shad, adjusting glasses: Excuse but...

    • @Leo.23232
      @Leo.23232 5 років тому +29

      He never said that, it’s ‘That’s a knife.’

    • @Beardshire
      @Beardshire 5 років тому +5

      @@Leo.23232 Always looked like a big kitchen knife too me. Even has the same type of grip with a piece of metal sticking off the side for more hand protection. Why make it like that? I think it was cheaper.

    • @Leo.23232
      @Leo.23232 5 років тому +10

      Beardshire Are you talking about Dundee’s knife? It’s a bowie knife.

    • @Beardshire
      @Beardshire 5 років тому +7

      @@Leo.23232 No, talking about the messer.

    • @Leo.23232
      @Leo.23232 5 років тому +4

      @@Beardshire In that case it was a bit of a random thing to bring up, but the nail was put there as it was a civilian weapon, and civilians don't wear armour or have shields, so the extra hand protection was very useful for duels and stuff. That's why as time went on hand protection improved, because swords were more optimized to a civilian unarmoured market. And no, I don't think adding more metal to the hilt made it cheaper.

  • @hellpimp
    @hellpimp 5 років тому +380

    *Looks at prices of plane ticket to Australia*
    "Can't afford that"
    *Looks up swimming lessons*
    "Yeah, this could work"

    • @churchboy4609
      @churchboy4609 5 років тому +9

      I love this comment

    • @scottland8698
      @scottland8698 4 роки тому +44

      I recommend a rubber ducky floaty, it will halve your travel time

    • @lancepage1914
      @lancepage1914 3 роки тому +3

      Spot on. In Australian schools they teach you how to swim from 5 years old, and its compulsory.

    • @satibel
      @satibel Рік тому +2

      I've been reading a manhwa called barbarian quest about a barbarian that goes past the mountains that are "the end of the world" and discovers there's other civilizations, when he gets to the ocean he doesn't believe it to be so big and goes "yeah I could swim for a couple days to get to the other side".

  • @Sophia-vk5bq
    @Sophia-vk5bq 5 років тому +830

    For cutting those extra thick sandwiches.

  • @codythompson8509
    @codythompson8509 5 років тому +39

    His voice is perfect to just put in the background and listen while your doing something, I wish he would do a podcast???

  • @user-lj5wy6rx3h
    @user-lj5wy6rx3h 5 років тому +231

    So, the knife guilds invented messers to avood copyright infringement

    • @gustavmeyrink_2.0
      @gustavmeyrink_2.0 2 роки тому

      No. It is merely a language issue.
      The German word 'Schwert' (loosely translated as sword) describes specifically a double-edged, straight-bladed weapon.
      If it is not double-edged it is either a Säbel (sabre) or a Messer (Knife).

    • @w415800
      @w415800 2 роки тому

      Wait, I thought it was to infringe upon the rights of the swordsmiths?

    • @peterraab3411
      @peterraab3411 2 місяці тому

      Assualt Knives with High capacity edges.

  • @Tauntaun707
    @Tauntaun707 5 років тому +101

    The argument in shockingly similar to the myth. It's just that the craftsmen are pushing the semantics rather than the consumers. Could be where the myth stems from, someone just got one group mixed up with the other.

    • @Llortnerof
      @Llortnerof 5 років тому +7

      Just look at patent and copyright issues. That kind of beancounting sounds a lot more believable.

    • @ottersirotten4290
      @ottersirotten4290 4 роки тому +4

      reminds me of the 20mm armour piercing "hunting rifles" produced in the weimar republic

    • @gustavmeyrink_2.0
      @gustavmeyrink_2.0 3 роки тому +2

      The truth is German technical terms. Bladed weapons are split into two main groups: Schwerter & Dolche (swords and daggers) and Messer & Säbel (knives and sabres).
      So in German a sabre is simply NOT a type of sword and neither are Kriegsmesser. Schwerter are typically straight and double-edged. If a weapon is not double-edged it is NOT a Schwert (sword) in German.

  • @lukediehl1210
    @lukediehl1210 5 років тому +409

    I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents as an amateur smith. The messer style construction is incredibly durable and very forgiving. The first long blade I ever made was a messer, and even though I had no idea what I was doing, it has held up to an insane level of abuse.
    That means that the messer style would have worked well for mass production by less skilled craftsmen, which would have reduced the price and made the weapons more accessible. That explains why the messer has a reputation as the common man's weapon.

    • @SaltyRogue226
      @SaltyRogue226 5 років тому +19

      Makes sense

    • @jakubpawlowski396
      @jakubpawlowski396 5 років тому +67

      Spot on. Probably during war, and a shortage of blacksmiths, someone came to the idea, hey, what if the knife makers just make really big knifes for us?

    • @MrZetor
      @MrZetor 5 років тому +46

      @Luke Diehl I agree. Also, in addition to the (relative) ease of making a full-tang handle, the heat treatment of a single-edged blade is a lot easier and a lot less critical than of a double-edged blade.

    • @jakubpawlowski396
      @jakubpawlowski396 5 років тому +19

      @@MrZetor not to mention, the blade is less likely to snap at the guard, as they so often do...

    • @MrZetor
      @MrZetor 5 років тому +6

      ​@@jakubpawlowski396 This actually is one of my all-time 'favorite' pet peeves. I would never EVER make 90-degree angles b/w the (hidden) tang and the blade itself. Not even into a short knife, which obviously won't experience nearly as much bending and twisting force as a sword.
      An even more retarded practice is to extend the fuller all the way through the guard and into the (hidden) tang! See, for example, 'The Oslo Viking Sword' by Darksword Armory: www.darksword-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/new-oslo-sword-1308-viking-bare-blade-full-tang-medieval-weapon-800x600.jpg
      This POS has the aforementioned 90-degree angles, which are _always_ a weak point, but also the unnecessarily extended fuller. There is no way this mass-produced object could withstand hard hitting, let alone twisting/bending forces!
      Anyway, even a hidden tang sword _can_ be made strong, but the tang/blade interface will look nothing like the Oslo thing, _AND_ the fitment of the guard must be "tight like a man's anus"...

  • @maxmustermann9058
    @maxmustermann9058 4 роки тому +78

    "Nobody was allowed to carry arms."
    "Everyone was required to have a sword."
    It's like I am getting told a story by J.J Abrahams and Ryan Johnson !

    • @manoz6194
      @manoz6194 Рік тому +3

      But I carry two arms with me always...

    • @kyle18934
      @kyle18934 8 місяців тому

      ​@manoz6194 you need to only have ONE at a time! remove one immediately!

  • @googleisacruelmistress1910
    @googleisacruelmistress1910 5 років тому +592

    Security guy: you can't bring a sword in here
    Me: this is a knife tho
    Security guy: (-_-)
    Me: no really check out the hilt
    Security guy: ... well ok then

    • @RandoBox
      @RandoBox 5 років тому +54

      Exactly how AR pistols work.

    • @karemare6426
      @karemare6426 5 років тому +15

      you guys think in a situation like this, the sharpness of the blade is taken into consideration? I mean, by the security staff. If not it's a huge problem, a blunt sword can't pass, but a dead sharp Kriegsmesser is OK :)

    • @sik3xploit
      @sik3xploit 5 років тому +16

      @@karemare6426 Just goes to show that no matter how many strides politicians will take to undermine us we will always have the means to kick it back in their face. That's why if they want to be the tyrant that they drool to be then they need to officially declare war on us instead of taking these weak baby steps.

    • @tree_alone
      @tree_alone 5 років тому +2

      That's not a knife! ... no really that's not a knife.

    • @googleisacruelmistress1910
      @googleisacruelmistress1910 5 років тому +2

      @@tree_alone Yes it is... no really it is a knife.. a super knife... yeah that sounds about right

  • @danielmcbriel1192
    @danielmcbriel1192 5 років тому +8

    In my German textbooks on weaponsmithing the blade weapons are usually divided into two classes.
    1. They have their origin in the dagger. Pointed front, straight blade and two cutting edges. The swords.
    2. They have their origin in the knife. Curved blade and only sharpened on one side. The saber class. (War knife, saber, scimitar, falchions, katana ...)

  • @deadmeme8973
    @deadmeme8973 5 років тому +209

    "swords were illegal"
    Vs
    "every man must own a sword"
    EXCUSE ME WHAT
    How does this happen? It's like people live in opposite land

    • @scratchy996
      @scratchy996 5 років тому +45

      Because feuding city-states. You have a bunch of rival families, controlling small and often fragmented pieces of land. Tension was high, and it often lead to violent skirmishes. Having an armed militia 24h a day was a necessity.

    • @olenickel66
      @olenickel66 5 років тому +31

      I guess it has to do with stereotypical views on the medieval era that were developed during and after the enlightenment era: that feudal rule was unabashed tyranny that had to clamp down with its knights on the commoners 24/7 lest they revolt. From this we get many cliched ideas about certain weapons being outlawed to prevent peasants from arming themselves, whereas the reality is more complex and not only would commoners often identify with and support the feudal system, but having a sizeable levy that has arms and can be called upon as militia was a useful asset for any lord and free city alike.

    • @ccvcharger
      @ccvcharger 5 років тому +8

      Switzerland actually does that now, but with guns.

    • @augustovasconcellos7173
      @augustovasconcellos7173 4 роки тому +9

      @@ccvcharger Nah, that's Israel that you're probably thinking about. Switzerland lets you own all kinds of guns - even some you wouldn't be able to own in the US - and many people do own them, that is true, but you're neither required to nor allowed to own the ammunition for a majority of those guns (at least not without proper documentation).
      Israel, on the other hand, has compulsory military service for men and women, and trained soldiers who may be called into action are _required_ to be carrying their weapons at all times.

    • @ParadoxISPower
      @ParadoxISPower 4 роки тому

      That is human resistance 101

  • @mikeytheeaglescout
    @mikeytheeaglescout 5 років тому +28

    I can't wait for that medieval sword law video. A D&D friend of mine and I are always arguing about that subject (he insists that it was illegal for commoners to own swords, I say otherwise). When that video comes out, I am immediately sending that link to him to settle this debate once and for all.

    • @datkhornedog899
      @datkhornedog899 3 роки тому +1

      Any responses?

    • @5peciesunkn0wn
      @5peciesunkn0wn Рік тому +2

      I think people are getting *Japan* mixed up with Europe for some of this stuff. Japan outlawed swords for commoners once the Samurai and such got big in their power and relative peace happened. Europe...didn't really have relative peace during the medieval era lol.

  • @Thraim.
    @Thraim. 5 років тому +179

    How do you know it's a knife?
    Well, the knife-maker sold it to me...
    Sounds reasonable.

    • @aquamarinerose5405
      @aquamarinerose5405 3 роки тому +1

      would like, but 69 likes

    • @Thraim.
      @Thraim. 3 роки тому +4

      I appreciate the sentiment.

    • @zealotguy
      @zealotguy 3 роки тому

      @@erojerisiz1571 knife-bed! 😤

    • @gustavmeyrink_2.0
      @gustavmeyrink_2.0 3 роки тому

      It is quite simple: In German technical terms bladed weapons fall into one of two main categories:
      Schwerter & Dolche (swords and daggers) or Messer & Säbel (knives and sabres).

  • @XanderCottrell
    @XanderCottrell 5 років тому +33

    i like to refer to medieval Germany as "not quite Germany yet" :P

  • @zvonimirtomac7896
    @zvonimirtomac7896 5 років тому +392

    Why was the Knife Sword invented? To cut some really big bread, obviously.

    • @MsWatismyname
      @MsWatismyname 5 років тому +2

      Welp, just after I made my own comment about buttering a bread I read yours.

    • @pennyfarting
      @pennyfarting 5 років тому +23

      FALSE. It was obviously made to cut giant vegetables. If it were for bread, it would be serrated.

    • @MsWatismyname
      @MsWatismyname 5 років тому +7

      @@pennyfarting How did I miss that, this is it!

    • @BRUXXUS
      @BRUXXUS 5 років тому +9

      Row boats don't use oars, those are just GIANT SPOONS from the spoon guild! 😁

    • @DZ-1987
      @DZ-1987 5 років тому +2

      *Read in posh-English accent*
      I do believe the "Big bread" you speak of is the French *Posh laughter*
      Almost forgot to say, but do imagine that with the monocle.

  • @zendikarisparkmage2938
    @zendikarisparkmage2938 5 років тому +27

    Get well soon, Shad! You hid your illness really well. Thanks for muscling through for us!

  • @Sleepless_Sam
    @Sleepless_Sam 5 років тому +377

    Ah the knife sword... A weapon almost as infamous as the long short spear.

  • @hundwyn7530
    @hundwyn7530 5 років тому +32

    The closed captioning says you're chad, high praise from impartial tech

  • @robfromjersey7899
    @robfromjersey7899 5 років тому +434

    "That's not a knife, that's a sword."
    "No it's short enough, it's a knife."
    "It's a sword-knife."
    "No, it's a knife sword."
    "Screw it, I'm getting a halberd."

    • @youtubeisdead1858
      @youtubeisdead1858 5 років тому +51

      "It's an axe hammer spear.'"
      "No, it's an axe-spear with a hammer."
      "It's a hammer and an axe with a spear on it."
      "No, it's a weapon of war with an axe and a hammer on it."
      "So I can't use it for lumbering or blacksmithing?"
      "Well yes, but actually no-"
      "Fine, then I'm bringing a gunknife. Happy?"

    • @claptrap4084
      @claptrap4084 5 років тому +12

      This is when the measuring tape was invented.....everybody carried around Messers to the point that guards had to be ready to measure blade lengths at a moments notice!

    • @Ferelcapox7
      @Ferelcapox7 4 роки тому +2

      poleaxe..

    • @ottersirotten4290
      @ottersirotten4290 4 роки тому +4

      the german name for that thing is "Kriegs Messer" means war knife

    • @lau_taro0037
      @lau_taro0037 4 роки тому +1

      This is me in Mordhau

  • @FunkyPertwee
    @FunkyPertwee 2 роки тому +29

    Shad: "No one would define knife or sword by hilt construction!"
    Also Shad: "Knife and sword guilds defined knives and swords by their hilt construction."

    • @awesomeblader45
      @awesomeblader45 11 місяців тому +4

      *Legally, it was more like a gentleman's agreement that hilt construction allowed knife makers to create swords as length would start to get arbitrary.

  • @DZ-1987
    @DZ-1987 5 років тому +81

    I demand a more in depth video on Medieval Guilds.

  • @ChristianThePagan
    @ChristianThePagan 5 років тому +2

    Finally somebody got this right. One nitpick though, the langes messer and kriegsmesser were not just falchions which is a very common modern misconception about these things. There is a fantastic flora of blade types for this weapon, particularly the one handed langes messer. You could get them with falchion machete like blades, curved sabre like blades and what were basically completely conventional straight sword blades.

  • @Torthrodhel
    @Torthrodhel 5 років тому +212

    Guild enforcer: "I like your enthusiasm, but we can't just make swords. We're the knife guild. Just concentrate on honing your craft. Make a great knife."
    Pyramid Head: "Hmm..."

    • @Gr3nadgr3gory
      @Gr3nadgr3gory 5 років тому +8

      Grossemesser!

    • @donna30044
      @donna30044 5 років тому +24

      Jane Ross
      Knife makers are always honing their skills; it gives them an edge. Gotta stay sharp to keep up with competition.

    • @MrDibara
      @MrDibara 5 років тому

      Jane Ross *D--... Did you **_have_** to go there?* T__T

    • @Torthrodhel
      @Torthrodhel 5 років тому +1

      ​@@MrDibara What else was I gonna do, just sit there and eat pizza?

    • @MrDibara
      @MrDibara 5 років тому +1

      @@Torthrodhel _It would've been an option,_ YES. XD

  • @FF3LockeZ
    @FF3LockeZ 5 років тому +56

    "Why was this really stupid looking weapon invented?"
    "To get around some union laws and allow the knifesmiths to make a higher profit margin."
    Human nature never changes, does it?

    • @kingmasterlord
      @kingmasterlord 3 роки тому +2

      We don't like being told what to do, so we do what we want even when we're told not to. Yep, human nature.

    • @AnimeFan9833
      @AnimeFan9833 3 роки тому +7

      How dare you slander Kriegsmesser like that two years ago, they're beautiful!

    • @chuck9246
      @chuck9246 3 роки тому +2

      @@AnimeFan9833 dude, holy shit i was about to revive this dead comment to say the same thing lol. Beautiful blade.

    • @lancepage1914
      @lancepage1914 3 роки тому +3

      @@chuck9246 100% its a beautiful weapon.

  • @silent_stalker3687
    @silent_stalker3687 5 років тому +298

    ‘The true origin of the knife sword’
    Aka: the little sword that could.

    • @zacktoor1591
      @zacktoor1591 5 років тому +4

      "I think I cut. I think I cut."

    • @EmeraldEyesEsoteric
      @EmeraldEyesEsoteric 5 років тому +1

      "excuse me," said the knife sword. "I'm a little knife that could... and my owner is a girl with big feet who insists she is a size 6."

  • @voci4202
    @voci4202 5 років тому +12

    In a nutshell:
    "You can't have swords of this length!"
    *Makes a big knife*
    "That... does that count?"
    *Makes it bigger and bigger*
    "Hold on, now, you ruffian, tha-"
    *Sword guilds and knife guilds teaming up and making every variant as much as possible to get a giggle out of it.*
    "I give up..."

  • @ambuknight
    @ambuknight 5 років тому +126

    It's so sad I can't meet professor Shadiversity 😭🥺😭.
    "Get well professor"

  • @TheTurtlePenguin
    @TheTurtlePenguin 5 років тому +5

    I too have been promoting this myth of messers being the circumvention to the problem of it being illegal for lower classes to carry swords - Shad, thank you for educating me 🙏 I have now addressed my friends with the correction and admitted I were wrong. Thanks to you I have learned to do that without losing my self-esteem. It's great to be corrected, because then you can learn something new!

  • @ottovonbismarck5067
    @ottovonbismarck5067 5 років тому +111

    The "Kriegsmesser" saw it's widest use around 1500. The term "Deutschland" - in the form of the respective German from that time - was already used in the 14th century and became widely used in the 15th century. A state of "Deutschland" certainly didn't exist, but the term itself actually refers to the land (Land) where people speak German (Deutsch) and as such was, as you can see, used before the Kriegsmesser was even widely used.
    So saying that it was popular in Germany, as the translation of Deutschland, is completely accurate even if we take into account the term people used back then. Because when talking about things that were general true across the German states, they did indeed use sentences along the lines of "In Deutschland XY."

    • @DZ-1987
      @DZ-1987 5 років тому +8

      Doucheland.
      ~My friend 2019.

    • @DZ-1987
      @DZ-1987 5 років тому +2

      We're still rivals. He said that 2 weeks ago.

    • @richardaubrecht2822
      @richardaubrecht2822 5 років тому +4

      Alse, there was a German Kindom, one of the three parts of the Holy Roman Empire besides Italian Kingdom and Burgundy. After the 12th century it was gradually replaced by the title of Roman king.

    • @ohauss
      @ohauss 5 років тому +2

      @@richardaubrecht2822
      For the period at issue. Burgundy wasn't much of an issue. The Kingdom of Arles which consisted of former Burgundian possessions had long been fragmented at the time and what was called Burgundy at the time was a Duchy, mostly under French influence but situated strategically so as to be able to ride the fence on occasion and support one side today, the other tomorrow, or achieve a certain level of independence simply through the threat of supporting the other side if one was to bring its foot down too hard.

    • @richardaubrecht2822
      @richardaubrecht2822 5 років тому +2

      @@ohauss I know. I was talking about the time before the 12th century. When the King of Italy was a real thing, Lombards were still Langobards. Our emperor Charles IV was also King of Arles, but at the time it was just a title without any real power and he killed that title anyway.

  • @pattthepriest
    @pattthepriest 4 роки тому +5

    "That's not a knife that's a spoon"
    "Ah I've seen you've played knife spoony before"

  • @DatAsianPlays
    @DatAsianPlays 5 років тому +62

    This is like having an AR15 "pistol". It's not a short barreled rifle because it doesn't have a stock, it has a brace

    • @thesmallestminorityisthein4045
      @thesmallestminorityisthein4045 3 роки тому +8

      ATF, seeing that the owner of a 12" AR also has a dog: we got him.
      Also ATF, seeing that the AR has a brace: _Mission failed, we'll get him next time_

    • @Kayem237
      @Kayem237 Рік тому

      @@thesmallestminorityisthein4045 2023, Next time is here.

  • @SkippertheBart
    @SkippertheBart 5 років тому +6

    That Mick Dundee picture in context made me laugh long and loud. Excellent choice.

  • @joshuakusuma5953
    @joshuakusuma5953 5 років тому +374

    Exploiting a legal loophole to get customers from the other guys?
    Capitalism at its finest!

    • @j.h-j5j
      @j.h-j5j 5 років тому +1

      Sounds very American!

    • @thelvadam2884
      @thelvadam2884 5 років тому +21

      if iam not mistaken the USA wasnt even a thing back then... wich again just shows they are nothing but the crazy side of Europeans 😄

    • @QwertyBoredom122
      @QwertyBoredom122 5 років тому +28

      @@thelvadam2884 Americans are just 1700's Brits on steroids.

    • @KairuHakubi
      @KairuHakubi 5 років тому +10

      i'll take the guild system anyday over modern unions or government meddling ;)
      not to mention insurance, (including health care) another thing guilds and lodges did better

    • @Jsand714
      @Jsand714 5 років тому +9

      Jose Hernandez Martinez fuck socialism

  • @williamweissner6379
    @williamweissner6379 5 років тому +2

    ever since I started watching this channel the Messer has become a favorite of mine thanks Shad

  • @ChrisM243
    @ChrisM243 5 років тому +93

    As a viewer from Germany: pretty good pronunciation (besides the word "Nagel". :)

    • @carschte0282
      @carschte0282 5 років тому +4

      I was still floored from "groß Messer", german grammar is the best, not.

    • @graceswan4353
      @graceswan4353 5 років тому +1

      carschte 0 But isn’t that just.. “big knife-sword-thingy”? that’s the same as English grammar right?

    • @carschte0282
      @carschte0282 5 років тому +3

      Grace Swan no, not at all. If groß is a adjective, then it should be großes Messer, but Großmesser is fine, because it‘s one word (at least that is what it should be in german) like Langschwert (the german version of longsword).

    • @mbnhiphopmusik6429
      @mbnhiphopmusik6429 5 років тому +1

      @@carschte0282 also German and I have come across the terms "Großmesser" and "Kriegsmesser".

    • @carschte0282
      @carschte0282 5 років тому +1

      MBNHipHopMusik I know that Großmesser is correct but I was heavily confused for a few minutes as I heard it

  • @ClemensGleich
    @ClemensGleich 5 років тому +4

    Yes, this is the most reasonable theory at the moment. It also has a logical direction: In most legal entities (like the big cities like Nuremberg) German peoples were required to own weapons, because they had to do watch and war duty. So there was a very large and lucrative market for weapons, including swords. The knife-maker guilds wanted in on this and produced swords that followed the definitions of a knife, only bigger. One of the main points was: a single edge instead of two edges. With these products, they aimed at the lower-priced end of the market, targeting normal citizens and later professional soldiers (Landsknechte) with simple, sturdy, no-nonsense, single-edged cutting swords.
    Greetings from the Land of your Dreams (in Germany, we have roundabout 25.000 real castles)

  • @vane909090
    @vane909090 5 років тому +104

    I'd love to meet you IRL, Shad. If only Australia wasn't on a different planet.

    • @KickyFut
      @KickyFut 5 років тому +5

      Borderlands:Pre-Sequel?

    • @mgk2020
      @mgk2020 5 років тому

      I lol'd

    • @enjibkk6850
      @enjibkk6850 5 років тому

      Definately a different planet. The sun even moves differently over there.

    • @KickyFut
      @KickyFut 5 років тому

      Don't forget, different stars in the sky too!

  • @dockbabington422
    @dockbabington422 4 роки тому +1

    Before I watched this, I would've thought it had something to do with the sumptuary laws at the time. Thank you for clearing this up a bit.

  • @ronin47-ThorstenFrank
    @ronin47-ThorstenFrank 5 років тому +15

    Seeing the title of the video, charging hate device, ready for flame war, watching video, discharging hate device....
    Good researched and excellently explained.
    And I got a new book to read.
    Greetings from Germany.

  • @matthewsteele5229
    @matthewsteele5229 3 роки тому

    What I find interesting is the Nagal (nail) that survived the guild transition. Bauernwahr (hunting knives) had no cross at all but instead had a flattened nail that acted as a hand stop. In the crossover onto langesmesser hilts, it survived to act as a third quillon, and makes up the defining techniques of messer fencing of masters like Talhoffer and Lekuchner.
    It SEEMS to be the first iteration of a more complex hilt than the traditional cross guard. 16th century dussacks/tessacks/ Sinclair-hilt Sabres keep this feature while adding knuckle protection or a swept hilt. Also, contemporary longswords began featuring ring hilts, symmetrical and asymmetrical, where the Nagal is replaced with a strong D shaped ring connecting the quillons.
    A few later messers, 15th-16th century finds, have a knuckle bow in the form of a 90° downward extension of the front facing quillon. Dussack trainers made of wood and leather copy this as a D shaped knuckle guard over an otherwise featureless hilt. These were used as stand-ins for various one handed swords during tutorship and at fechtshule tournaments.
    .. also, Meyer gang all the way.

  • @Nicitel94
    @Nicitel94 5 років тому +202

    Oi, you cheeky buggar, you got a loicense for that knife sword?

    • @draketungsten74
      @draketungsten74 5 років тому +23

      Knoife sword :)

    • @samuelevans738
      @samuelevans738 5 років тому

      Argh! Want to join in, but don't know how to do the fake accent!😭😖 eh, wot?

  • @nopeno2350
    @nopeno2350 5 років тому +2

    Very happy for you hope this leads to more meet and greets

  • @Evanski
    @Evanski 5 років тому +66

    Knife? Or Sword?
    *Both.*
    Both is good.

    • @vanderwallstronghold8905
      @vanderwallstronghold8905 5 років тому +3

      Knife? Or sword?
      Yes.

    • @Cowgirlcadet
      @Cowgirlcadet 5 років тому +1

      Now you must make a meme with Tulio and Miguel holding these instead of their rapiers.

  • @dcsobral
    @dcsobral 5 років тому +3

    I believe the question on knife length was finally settled on the movie Crocodile Dundee.

  • @gammafighter
    @gammafighter 5 років тому +65

    Leave it to an Aussie to make this video. Should have titled the video "That's not a knife!"

  • @marshalmarshall2109
    @marshalmarshall2109 5 років тому +1

    Reach into the enemy for raspberry jam...WITH YOUR BRAND NEW KNIFE SWORD!

  • @prophetisaiah08
    @prophetisaiah08 5 років тому +41

    Here's a theory: If the ownership of a sword was mandatory for even commoners in most of the Holy Roman Empire, perhaps the sword-makers guilds partnered with the knife-makers guilds to increase production of affordable swords to meet the demand created by these legal requirements. They may have even been mandated by the government to do so to give the common folk the means to meet the legal requirement. Think about it. If ownership of a car was required by law for all adult citizens, don't you think that the auto companies would be scrambling for factory partners to build the cheapest cars that meet the standard to sell to the MILLIONS of people who are now required to own one? (I know the example is a bit far-fetched, but it's the best my limited intelect could come up with on the spot.)

    • @scratchy996
      @scratchy996 5 років тому +1

      The sword makers had the best lobbyists ever !
      edit : OK maybe the bread lobbyists were better, they managed to include their product in the Lord's Prayer...

    • @stianberg5645
      @stianberg5645 5 років тому +3

      That also makes it possible for the sword makers to retain a "premium stamp". Perhaps you are right, that the guild was sort of pressured to meet the demand, but didn't want to sell swords at a lower price. Interesting thought

    • @Oxissistic
      @Oxissistic 5 років тому +1

      To build on both of these ideas, it also makes sense from a time perspective. if you are making premium swords and have to stop to fill 100 orders for cheaper low(er) quality blades to sell to the common man that means you can make less high end stuff.
      Punching out some blanks for the Knife guys to finish fits that middle ground to meet the masses needs while leaving more time for the super awesome long swords to be produced.

    • @TheRobotsWillEatYou
      @TheRobotsWillEatYou 5 років тому

      this theory of yours makes most sense and perhaps, (to extend this further), the shorter bladed messer was cheaper than the longer ones to further be more economically viable for the masses.

  • @fri5728
    @fri5728 5 років тому +9

    Strange … I was under the impression that the difference between a Schwert (»shveart«: roughly translated into sword) and a Messer (roughly tranlated into knife) was that the Messer is one edged while the Schwert is two edged.
    See, I am German and people from my home HEMA club once told me that the famous japanese sword named Katana is not an actual Schwert (which is a point where the definitions of »Schwert« and »sword« may differ) - because it is one edged.
    Now, it seems pretty normal to me that similar words in two languages can have slightly different meanings. I just wanted you to know.

  • @thisguyplaying5803
    @thisguyplaying5803 5 років тому +114

    enemey: HA I HAVE A SWORD WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
    me: I HAVE A KNIFE-SWORD
    enemey: wait.... so its just a swo-
    me: A KNIFE-SWORD
    enemey: but a sword is literally a knife but bigger and lon-
    me: HA NOPE.

    • @WindyREDPanda
      @WindyREDPanda 5 років тому +8

      I think the word ya looking for is "Enemy"

    • @thisguyplaying5803
      @thisguyplaying5803 5 років тому +3

      im sorry but in too lazy to edit it all XDXDXD

    • @WindyREDPanda
      @WindyREDPanda 5 років тому +8

      @@thisguyplaying5803 but your not too fucking lazy to respond to me. Fix your shit.

    • @MM-qk9wx
      @MM-qk9wx 5 років тому +8

      "It's a KNIFE, there are minor yet technical differences which constitu-" *is stabbed*

    • @thisguyplaying5803
      @thisguyplaying5803 5 років тому

      @@WindyREDPanda is it necessary to swear in this situation or to be mad at all?

  • @SteelWolf13
    @SteelWolf13 5 років тому +2

    Shad says ok, I take a drink.
    The lake ran dry.

  • @Robo2k_
    @Robo2k_ 5 років тому +98

    How the-
    A sword is a long knife
    I am many confusions
    -|===> A sword
    -|=> A knife

  • @monanagel6616
    @monanagel6616 5 років тому

    Had to watch this after spending my weekend at a medieval camp with lots of sword enthusiasts around me and falling in love with the Messer.

  • @eggmynog
    @eggmynog 5 років тому +112

    Look up AR15 pistols and pistol braces...
    Trust me, the "letter of the law" sometimes dictates how and what people will circumvent.
    "No, that's a pistol you idiot" ;)
    Love the content, keep up the good work

    • @Carewolf
      @Carewolf 5 років тому +6

      Yeah, but that is modern day America. No real country operates like that ;)

    • @ottersirotten4290
      @ottersirotten4290 4 роки тому +24

      germany produced during the weimar republic time 20mm armour piercing "hunting rifles"

    • @jalpat2272
      @jalpat2272 3 роки тому +6

      @@ottersirotten4290 ja, sie for metal beast.

    • @A-G-F-
      @A-G-F- 3 роки тому +2

      @@ottersirotten4290
      Well, what if you wanna hunt a Wyvern?

  • @edi9892
    @edi9892 5 років тому +1

    The funny thing: Kriegsmesser look quite a bit like a Katana and the Katana has a similar hilt construction and its name could be translated as knife too!
    As a side-note: There were at least four smithing guilds: blacksmith (e.g. barrel-bands; nails and horseshoes, possibly also axeheads); knifesmith (possibly also spearheads); swordsmith (possibly also halberds) and the armourer. What really separated them originally was their ability to work with steel. You can make a nail from crappy iron using a crappy forge, but a breastplate, longsword or rapier require way more. However, over time the iron-processing became better and so did the forges, which allowed knifesmiths to make sword-length blades cheaply compared to previous swordmakers. The prices for swords and armour dropped (old iron being recycled rather than new one mined; cheaper production techniques while increased quality) and the guilds tried to control the markets...

  • @Zorisura
    @Zorisura 5 років тому +56

    Get well soon Shad
    this was a very interesting video tbh the things about guilds.

  • @mosesa.weaver3058
    @mosesa.weaver3058 5 років тому +1

    Always down for spending quality time with my favorite Aussie!

  • @arx3516
    @arx3516 5 років тому +17

    Wonderful! A medieval event with historically accurate kangaroos, koalas and summers in december!

    • @scratchy996
      @scratchy996 5 років тому +4

      @Edohiguma people think Kung Fu pandas are dangerous , until they meet the Octagon koalas.

  • @lucasallen5349
    @lucasallen5349 4 роки тому

    I can't help but be distracted by the full set of WoT right under where you are trying to keep my attention. Been watching your content for years and you've officially earned my subscription and convinced me to read your book I keep hearing about. Keep up the amazing work!

  • @nixiepixie5694
    @nixiepixie5694 5 років тому +24

    You covered this so well. Very informative and I enjoyed it immensely. I look forward to a video covering the Roman Empire.

  • @Mundiz_
    @Mundiz_ 5 років тому +1

    Love your videos Shad, thanks for the info!

  • @matteussilvestre8583
    @matteussilvestre8583 5 років тому +49

    Now *this* is a knife!

    • @kriegkorpsman402
      @kriegkorpsman402 5 років тому +3

      You call this a knife? *shows long bayonet* THIS is a knife.

  • @elgoobero
    @elgoobero 5 років тому +1

    That sounds like factory seconds. A blade that didn't quite meet "sword quality" was resold as a "knife".

  • @mckenzielannigan4305
    @mckenzielannigan4305 5 років тому +52

    Skall's favorite way to end them rightly

    • @Harshhaze
      @Harshhaze 5 років тому +8

      Can't disconnect the pommel, so you just throw the whole damn sword[knife]

  • @Zalgardis
    @Zalgardis 5 років тому +1

    *looks at title. Thinks back to when I was in Germany. Delighted squeals when the information in the museums comes back to mind accurately after several years*

  • @portsouth
    @portsouth 5 років тому +101

    You: knife sword
    Me, an intellectual: knord

  • @FunkAndFluff
    @FunkAndFluff 4 місяці тому

    3:41 "I wanna focus on the sword right now" might be the most Shad thing I've ever heard.

  • @darknessml6145
    @darknessml6145 5 років тому +16

    "We liked knife so we made more knife"
    Trust me my dad works at the Nintendo Kingdom

  • @bioforce5
    @bioforce5 5 років тому +1

    As an American, that myth honestly sounds very believable. There's quite a few workarounds for firearm laws that are rather similar to that concept. For example, in the U.S. shotguns with barrels shorter than 18.5 inches are highly restricted, and in some states are flat out illegal. However, if you have a "pistol" designed to shoot .45 Colt that just so happens to have a chamber long enough to fit .410 shot shells, you can legally load it up with shotgun shells and call it a pistol. Similarly, if the weapon is designed to shoot shot shells from the get go, say 12 gauge shells, but it was designed in a manner that meets the legal criteria of a pistol, it is considered neither a shotgun nor a pistol and is instead an "Any Other Weapon." AOW's are still more restricted than "normal" firearms, but are legal in more states and don't require as large of a fee to be paid to the government to register to own them.
    Other weirdness gets introduced when you look at the laws of specific states. In Pennsylvania, for example, it is illegal to conceal a rifle or shotgun. You can technically carry them openly, though the police will hassle you about it and probably charge you with disturbing the peace, but having one hidden is illegal even if you have a concealed carry license. This is due to PA's carry licenses specifying that they permit you to conceal a "firearm" and PA does not recognize rifles or shotguns as "firearms" under legal terminology. However, "Short Barreled Rifles" and "Short Barreled Shotguns" ARE considered firearms and CAN be legally concealed if you have a concealed carry permit and have registered the weapon as short barreled. This means that in PA you can circumvent the law which prevents you from carrying concealed rifles or shotguns by registering your firearm as a MORE restricted classification and cutting its barrel short.
    So, while the myth may not be true, I don't think you should laugh the idea off so quickly. While it may "logically" be an illegal weapon, the law itself is not always so clean cut and "logical."

  • @steevemartial4084
    @steevemartial4084 5 років тому +13

    I'm definitely interested in more videos about the Holy Roman Empire! Between gothic armour and messers, they had some of the best looking gear in the late XVth century.

  • @thforres
    @thforres 5 років тому +1

    I think there's probably another component here. Cost. Swords in that time period were generally double edged, and a through tang construction. That's costly, and since there was that requirement to have and carry swords, the cheaper hilt and single edged construction likely played a role in their popularity. Less time spent shaping, grinding, and sharpening.

  • @Azdaja13
    @Azdaja13 5 років тому +26

    "That's not a noif. _This_ is a noif." - Sniper made the Messer, confirmed and irrefutable!
    Also, get well soon! :D

  • @TheArcSet
    @TheArcSet 5 років тому +1

    Thanks for a very informative and interesting video.
    Also, I see you proudly displaying an entire wheel of time set :).

  • @skjelm6363
    @skjelm6363 5 років тому +17

    I always enjoy your videos. Thank you and keep going!
    Guilds... yeah here in Germany we were always great to organize and in bureaucracy.
    And we are good in tell others what to do and correcting others, so:
    Your German sounds good! Except "Nagel", the "g" was pronounced well, but the "a" is more like in "Nah!" or in "castle"
    Here you are, I am from the smartypants-guild... sorry, can't help it.
    Greetings from cologne!

  • @Agent719
    @Agent719 5 років тому +4

    Also, from the Netflix Castlevania:
    "Your long knife against my short sword."

  • @zwangsstoer
    @zwangsstoer 5 років тому +10

    You showed a map, how our wonderful country looked like to that time. With so much counts and dukes that made their efforts to strenghten their posiition and widen their influences, there was constant needs of weapons and arms, that wield them. So imagine you are a count and try to defend against your neighbors or make an approach to gain and yourself. What do you do? You go to the weapon smith guild and ask them how much swords they can make in the time you need them. And if this number is too short, you aks the knife makers, if they can make swords. For a reasonable amount of money or death threat they will try to do your bidding. But if a knife maker made knifes his whole life as knifes where made, he would never dare to make a bad sword (because he didnt know shit about how swords where made), he rather would give you an oversized but perfect crafted knife.

  • @thatsteampunkguy6528
    @thatsteampunkguy6528 5 років тому +220

    I wanna take this moment to announce something
    ....
    MACHICULATIONS!

    • @BrightonsPriest
      @BrightonsPriest 5 років тому +5

      The Steampunk Gamer what about DRAGONS!

    • @thatsteampunkguy6528
      @thatsteampunkguy6528 5 років тому +6

      @@BrightonsPriest dropped my pommel and they became extinct sadly. Why do you not see them nowadays.

    • @coltonaallen
      @coltonaallen 5 років тому +1

      Aye!

    • @GreySativa
      @GreySativa 5 років тому

      😂😃 And now I'm dead.😂🤣

    • @nasserfirelordarts6574
      @nasserfirelordarts6574 5 років тому +1

      How dare you!!!! You misspelled it, Machicolations *NOT MACHICULATIONS* "O"

  • @ACarpenter89
    @ACarpenter89 5 років тому

    Would love to meet you and your brother Jazza someday just to thank you both in person for helping me come up with hobbies that help me stay sober through your videos. Got to save money to get to Australia someday, always wanted to visit .

  • @wilagaton9627
    @wilagaton9627 5 років тому +41

    SWORDS!!
    I mean KNIFE SWORD!!
    But isn't a sword technically a long knife? But if that is. . . Then it means. . . SWORDCEPTION!!

  • @goldsmitharmorer3111
    @goldsmitharmorer3111 5 років тому +1

    Get well soon man. You're awesome!

  • @steevemartial4084
    @steevemartial4084 5 років тому +11

    I'm impressed that you would give free Calimacil swords. They are probably the best foam swords out there.

  • @thehackingburger3002
    @thehackingburger3002 5 років тому +1

    Thanks for this, Shad! My main character in a series I'm writing is going to have a messer, probably a two-handed, so I'm trying to find out all I can. I have watched your dedicated series, but it seems my messer thirst is unquenchable!
    Oh, and get well soon! ^_^

  • @CNNBlackmailSupport
    @CNNBlackmailSupport 5 років тому +7

    You can use it to cut turkey and ham, but you better expect a messer two.

  • @JohanDanielsson8802
    @JohanDanielsson8802 5 років тому +1

    Very informative video as usual. Get well soon!

  • @wanderingshade8383
    @wanderingshade8383 5 років тому +22

    SHAD'S SICK!!!?!!1?!! NOOOOOOOO
    Soon well get!!
    Wait...

  • @TrollDragomir
    @TrollDragomir 5 років тому +1

    Funny enough, in early middle ages there were no knives with riveted handle scales, they were all with a tang going through. Hell, such knives were still prominent up to the 15th Century - I even dug one out during archaeological digs (excavating a high medieval tavern in Poland), and it was a piece of cutlery, with a thin bone handle and patterns scratched onto it, with the tang going through tthe whole thing and twisted in a circle at the end.

  • @Leubast
    @Leubast 5 років тому +9

    1:02 That is the exact sword I want from Calimacil. The Kingdom Come: Deliverance Sir Radzig sword.

  • @zetsumeinaito
    @zetsumeinaito 4 роки тому +2

    I like a lot of the Messer designs. I always found single edged swords to have interesting and often elegant curves.

  • @gabrielpottebaum5249
    @gabrielpottebaum5249 5 років тому +4

    Any morning I wake up to a video about Messers is a morning worth waking up! Thanks Shad!

  • @tomh.5750
    @tomh.5750 5 років тому +6

    Finally someone who knows how to pronounce the names right.

    • @RealZeratul
      @RealZeratul 3 роки тому

      Kind of, yes, and I appreciate that. Although I had to smile when he said them first and tried very hard to get that Rammstein-style R in there, basically nobody here in Germany rolls the R like that.
      Also he didn't quite nail "Nagel" (heh), because the "a" has to be like "Ah!"

  • @gabrielwunderlich505
    @gabrielwunderlich505 5 років тому +4

    Get well soon! And thanks for all your great work. Being from Germany, it’s nice to hear some historical information, delivered by my favorite Australian. 😊

  • @MsWatismyname
    @MsWatismyname 5 років тому +1

    Get well soon, you absolute hero!

  • @cebenify
    @cebenify 5 років тому +33

    Holy Roman Empire= Holy Hot mess. Also machiciolations!

    • @LogicalMayhem00
      @LogicalMayhem00 5 років тому +3

      Not holy not Roman and not actually an Empire😉😆

    • @samuelevans738
      @samuelevans738 5 років тому +1

      @@LogicalMayhem00 yup. Not even the Vatican. Btw, watch overly sarcastic productions' Pope fights episodes. Really good! 😸😹

    • @arx3516
      @arx3516 4 роки тому

      But it did spawn the renaissance, after the battle of Legnano the north italian communes were de facto independent , without having to give taxes and men to the empire their economies flourished and the renaissance became possible.

  • @markus4732
    @markus4732 5 років тому +2

    As a German im pleasantly surprised how well you pronounced those words! 👏

  • @ticonofruger573
    @ticonofruger573 5 років тому +24

    10:04 Woah! That's not Shad writing there. Is that your wife? Has she always made these? Go Shadswife!
    And get better soon Shad :)

  • @alexccsm
    @alexccsm 5 років тому

    Get well soon bro, love your videos keep them coming.

  • @Leubast
    @Leubast 5 років тому +33

    Now I'm going to make a city(ies) that outlaw swords and have one character come in with a messer and have that same argument with a town guard and get throw in the dungeon.

    • @samuelevans738
      @samuelevans738 5 років тому

      So much lol 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😂🤣