Lyrics 101: The Nightmare Before Christmas (Part 1) - Brentalfloss
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- For years, I've cringed at the lyrics from "The Nightmare Before Christmas" and now I'm gonna tell you why!
Remember, this is all just my opinion and I'm not trying to ruin anyone's enjoyment of this iconic movie.
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The background music is from the Playstation 2 game
"The Nightmare Before Christmas: Oogie's Revenge"
![Megaman 3 Staff Roll/Credits Theme [Synth-Pop Mix]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XJrm6uRBvFw/mqdefault.jpg)
0:16 “There’s no perfect lyric”
I think you’ll find that the lyric “I hate every ape I see, from chimpan-a to chimpan-z” exists.
"Can I play the piano anymore?"
"Of course you can"
"Well I couldn't before!"
@@brentalfloss Speaking of bad lyrics... this bit was always bugged me. The word "anymore" ruins the joke!
This is a fact
Sounds like something Frieza would sing
@@brentalfloss Alf Clausen, everyone, Alf Clausen.
I kinda figured Jack being the "Pumpkin King" is more of a celebrity title more than an official title. You know, like the King of Pop or the King of Rock and Roll.
Now it makes sense
Except that he is apparently not able to stop being the Pumpkin King despite wanting to do so, implying some level of obligation/responsibility.
The Mayor says he's just an elected official. He has no real power. Jack is the one who reigns.
@@mrPAK215 Or it could be just him talking about the societal pressure to be a certain way.
I think Halloween Town just sees monarchs differently from ys. They love their kind because he does not just stay in his tower, but socialises with his people and acts like any other citizen.
I think the closest way I can translate this to English is that the songs don't rhyme but they are poetry. That is to say that while they don't rhyme, they do create the same structure that your brain expects and so we listening to the song accept it.
No idea if I explained this in a way that makes sense. Love your stuff Brent.
It makes a lot of sense to me.
Also about the crown: Its pretty plausible here that its not meant literally Brent. Its a metaphorical crown, a reference to his social status and title as the greatest monster of Halloweentown.
Absolutely. It is totally usual to use the expression "the crown" meaning something like "the reign".
The Kentucky line is my favourite out of every line in the movie, it's so absurd and out of style from the rest of the song.
Also, I personally love the abundance of slant rhymes in this movie, IMO it enhances the songs in the context of the movie, seeing as how Halloweentown is an entire land of the strange, spooky, and unnerving. Fittingly, Jack ends up slipping into straight rhyming in the first few moments of being awestruck by the glory of the warm, cheerful, and comfy Christmas town.
Re: "Jack will beat us black and green."
It's made VERY clear that Jack is a decent guy, and pointed out that Lock, Shock, and Barrel fear Oogie (the very line you complained out, with the "Boogie list", says they work for him to stay on his good side). A bit of subtlety here: who do they work for, who are they often around, and where would they get that idea that Jack would beat them?
Maybe, I dunno, the villain they work for, who has every incentive to keep them afraid of Jack, hates Jack, and has no reason to NOT manipulate three little children to do his bidding and keep them under his thumb with manipulation/isolation tactics?
There is nothing better than Brent complaining about rhymes. It's become my favourite series.
Mayro payro
what about the quag series though
Absolutely, I'm really enjoying this series with the effort Brent is putting in to it and I believe it deserves a little more attention than it's getting.
Quag
Remember, this is the guy who wrote the lyric "leave your body and soul at the door" (Oingo Boingo - Dead Man's Party).
Logic is not where Danny Elfman lives. It's all about the feeling.
Danny Elfman's lyrics are so fire, they don't need to rhyme, Brent
"don't expect these questions to be answered ever" but they are answered. Yes, there is a "world" outside of holidays. That's where Jack delivers the presents to towards the end of the movie. We can presume that each Holiday town prepares for their holiday year round and when their turn comes, they bring that celebration to the "real world". Hence why they have a police station and military that isn't under Santa's direct control. When it's halloween, halloween town's creations don't cause such panic because they are expected; but since they aren't supposed to be delivering spooky stuff at that time, it is out of place and troublesome.
Jack is the Pumpkin King because pumpkins are directly tied to halloween, and it's a title given to him to represent his being the best at scaring people. It's not a royal title though, it's a ceremonial title. Presumably, if someone out-spooked Jack at some point, they would gain the title of Pumpkin King. This title does come with responsibilities though, as people in Halloween Town defer to his judgement and planning for Halloween celebrations, including the mayor.
Also, I feel like you may be too focused on the idea of rhyming. I felt the same way back in grade school; learning that in fact, there are poetic structures which do not include rhymes was astonishing to me. but I'm fairly sure that's why so many lyrics don't rhyme or slant rhyme at best; it's a deliberate choice. There's no way that such talented lyricists just failed consistently to come up with any functional lyrics the whole movie through yet somehow ended up with a smash hit.
This is such a great refutation of this video. It summarizes perfectly my confusion when listening to Brent's input on the movie
Thank you, point 1 also always seemed clear to me.
This. He is taking things a little too literally.
"I think he tried to rhyme the word understand with grin?"
No, learn more about poetry! Its possible to do an A/B/C/C rhyme pattern. That constant complaint about rhyming (and seemingly not understanding slant rhyming) upset me so much. Especially because a diegetic song wouldn't have perfect rhymes, which feels more natural and so less stiff. More like a monologue (or dialogue in duets) but with music.
And honestly, I don't see why it *needs* to rhyme. Songs should be poetic, and rhyme is a ridiculously simple way of creating poetry in English, which also makes it require the least thought needed to understand its connections. But not all languages use rhyme... ever. If you can form poetry and fit it to music to let it flow, congratulations, you win.
I usually like him but jeeze this was hard to watch.
@@himura-miki absolutely
As a fan of The Nightmare Before Christmas, I can thankfully say that this is a pretty good analysis...in my opinion! From the title I was initially worried, but your humor and your presentation make this go down much better than I expected. Good on you Brent! I can’t wait for the next part!
i think when they say he's a king, its like calling some the king of hip-hop he's just the best at being scary
"Christmas Land/Town/Zone"
Now don't tell me Sonic the Hedgehog is canon to this.
Pretty sure Christmas Zone is completely different in the Pre-SGW Archie Sonic canon. I don't think it's ever been seen but it's somewhere in Sonic's multiverse by the nature of how multiverses work.
I mean there's at least a hundred alternate Sonic Universes plus the Capcom ones, the Image Comics Uninverse (Sonic Super Special Issue 7, thankfully no Leifeld characters, though it did include two characters from Pender's The Lost Ones which image canned after a single issue which wasn't even released at the time SSS7 came out but also had Savage Dragon and The Maxx who I hear are pretty popular) and Archie's Universe (which also apparently includes Sabrina the Teenage Witch).
A spooky bible? That's just the old testament.
I haven't laughed so hard in a while...Jack getting McConnell was art.
I nearly fucking died, I laughed so hard. XD
Jack tormenting Mitch McConnell is the best part of this video. That guy sucks.
I think the trick to those imperfect rhymes is the way the words are actually pronounced. As you probably noticed most of them are spoken very softly, putting emphasis on the vowels, less of the consonants, lulling you into becoming more accepting of the technically sloppy rhyming.
Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeety sure "a longing that I've never known" is expressing that this longing is so deep, powerful, and just overall mysterious to him, that he's never felt anything like this before, and it confuses him, in addition to not being sure exactly what it is that he longs for.
I have actually felt that kind of longing. I was looking at the moon and suddenly I felt this terrible, deep want for something which I couldn't put into words. It's a really strange feeling!
"Is it a spooky bible?" To be fair the one we have here on Earth is a bit spooky a times :P
More gory than spooky i think. But i get your point.
Would the Trumpeters impact these holiday worlds?
Something I always notice about this film is that no one seems to know that Jack is already dead. He says in one song “and since I am dead I can take off my head”. Then in another song, some kid says “hope he hasn’t died”. Then later on in the film, even the mayor is like “Jack! I thought you were dead!”. Like, does Jack just never tell anyone that he’s dead?
Good catch, I hadn't noticed that one!
You kill zombies, but zombified aunt moira is definitely already dead. I feel like they are dead, but can die.🤔
I guess it's like in Beetlejuice. If you die for the second time, you die for good. Jack used to be someone else in his previous life, but died. In this "afterlife" of his, he is still fully capable of dying but in a more permanent way
@@Logitah that’s actually a very good explanation. You get a gold star :)
12:00 "Crown" is a metaphor. Like "Heavy is the head that wears the crown" but they're talking about a tiara-wearing queen in the context or just a ruler who has no headwear at all.
When it comes to Jack being the pumpkin king, I think it has more to do with him as a ceremonial figurehead like how The Hunchback of Notre Dame had it's king of fools.
He's got a point about the choices of holidays in the trees. Missed opportunity, if you ask me.
Who wouldn't want to visit KwanzaaTown?
Or Pueblo de Cinco de Mayo?
Jour-Bastille Ville?
Maybe in the Disney+ Original sequel story...
WTF? I've been subbed for years yet this is the FIRST time in years one of your videos has been recommended to me or even appeared in my feed. I assumed you'd stopped posting. Welp, at least I have lots of content to binge on...
I mean that's technically not far from the truth considering he just recently came off of a break. More proof Creator Insider is full of BS and is just regurgitating the lies their higher ups at YT feed them, claiming taking a break won't negatively impact your channel.
You kinda get a feel for it by the end, but it's the neighbors in the real world, because like Santa on Christmas they visit the real world on Halloween night.
Also, yes they do enjoy frightening each other and likely would like to see each other die of fright.
Actually he does have rank and duties, that was summed up in the scene where the mayor comes to discuss next Halloween and yells "Jack please I'm only an elected official I can't do anything by myself!", Jack has complete authority over the town but chooses to mitigate tasks through a mayor.
Yes, he does haunt people around the world.
Crown is a reference to his position, his absolute authority over Halloween town, not that he walks around in jewels and satin, he is a king in a town where the Royal aesthetic would be out of place.
Christmas Town = a place, Christmas Land = a concept, it's not the name of the town but just what it represents, Christmas Town is the land of Christmas.
Yes the skeleton who. Stated he recites Shakespeare for fun, uses Shakespearean conventions.
I feel like the fact that none of the rhymes quite rhyme was an intentional move to make everything about Halloween Town seem just a bit off.
Sally poisons Finkelstein but she knows it won't kill him, she does this because Dr. Finkelstein demands constant care and attention while awake, emotionally manipulating her with the knowledge that he made her. Sally doesn't want to be tied to the hip with Finkelstein all her life she wants to be free to move about the town at will and spend time with her friend/crush jack. Now I'll admit her relationship with Jack is definitely underserved, and we only really get the scene where he reveals his confidence in her sewing abilities to show that this isn't completely a stalker situation where Jack is just the local celebrity who knows nothing about sally, but I give it a bit of leeway because delving to far into that would risk padding the runtime too much.
I agree with most of this, but this stuff should be better explained in the movie. The amount of power Jack actually holds has to be inferred from scenes placed much later in the movie when they should be made present from the beginning. Jack is called King in his introduction, but does no real leading until about halfway through the movie. As for everything else, it’d be clearer if we just saw their Halloween in action. Maybe the opening number could show us what the human world looks like on Halloween first so we can see the monsters in action, then show us Halloween Town near the end. That way we wouldn’t have to infer stuff through the somewhat vague song lyrics. I love this movie to bits but it’s character/world building could be handled much better
Brent, buddy, you were so close to uncovering something masterful about these lyrics! Danny Elfman used the slant rhymes and non-rhymes to set a dissonant tone whenever you're in Halloween Town, but then the perfect rhymes suddenly appear in Christmas Town where everything looks amazing and orderly! After that, whenever they sing about Christmas or the new feelings introduced to their world, they tend to use the perfect rhymes. The songs still work (for people who aren't lyricists) because you nearly always have the assonance, so it still sounds like a normal song. Even if the general audience starts to get clued in that this is what's going on, the assonance breaks every now and then as well in order to give you that feeling that things are never quite right in this place.
Also, Halloween Town is one town within Halloween Land, and is pretty much the capital of their world's theme, and same for Christmas Town / Christmas Land. Jack is the king of Halloween festivities, not the area itself, just as Santa isn't the king of Christmas Land. Presumably, each land also has its own areas that our world has, like Kentucky and France, but they're vaguely themed like the respective holiday as well.
The "do nothing for" / "does nothing for" part always bugged me as well, in addition to "The smell of cakes and pies are absolutely everywhere" when it should have been "is", but at least the inconsistency is consistent within the character! The "white things" / "snowballs" part is tougher to explain, but I always thought there was snow in Halloween Land, but it's so rare that the abundance of it threw him off.
Oh, and yes, he did steal those books from Christmas Town. It's not that he couldn't go back, it's just that he had hauled away a bunch of items to research them, but couldn't get past the figurative locked door in his mind. He could certainly go back at any time - he sent Lock, Shock, and Barrel there after all. Seems weird that the hero would steal and conspire to kidnap, but these acts as well as Sally's poisoning just go to show us that this is par for the course in this world. Jack and Sally are the good guys who show compassion once stuff actually starts to go down, but this is the way stuff gets done in this world.
Jack is not the king of Halloweentown. He's king of the Pumpkin Patch. Finkelstein is clearly neither a Pumpkin nor Pumpkin affiliated
I love these videos. I hope you keep making more of them. It's so great hearing a deconstruction from someone who knows so much about a topic.
Floss is just jealous because unlike Jack, his face isn’t tattooed on chubby goth girls’ thighs
LOL
Chubby goth girl thighs...
in the words of SpongeBob SquarePants
"I NEEEEEEEED IT!"
*Boss Nass noise intensifies*
@@daegan_ftw I can hear that whole comment
@@antisora13 I may have taken those sounds from movies and TV, but I gave them to this comment with my soul.
I have such a fun time singing along that I barely take the time to examine how bad the lyrics are... but they're pretty bad when you look closely.
Is that a golden girls Scooby doo shirt , I focus on that more than other thing
Anyone know where it's available? I googled it but came up with nothing.
Fridge Logic: The Musical.
Watch as you get up to get a snack only to realized “wait X was never addressed” while you were looking in the fridge.
Oh I'm a pause button man from way back, lol
Honestly, my read on the "Pumpkin King" thing has always been more like a Prom King/Queen. We don't have those in the UK, so as a kid I only really knew about them in the abstract, so this fit into my idea of him as just being the most popular guy in town, and everyone recognises it.
As an American, this actually makes a lot of sense. A Prom King/Queen is elected, but the title holds no power. It’s just a flashy name to show off the popularity they already had. Since Jack is considered the scariest in Halloween Town, it makes sense the town’s residents would make him king even if he doesn’t do much in the way of leading
@@jacobloewen7393 And if you've played Oogie's Revenge, you'll know their rivalry exists because Oogie used to be the King of Halloweentown. So~
I like that Jack is known throughout *all* of England and France, and then in America... Just one specific resident of Kentucky.
The. King. Is. Metaphorical.
He is the Pumpkin King because he's the best at scaring people in a town that lives only to do that one thing. He's not a monarch, he's a celebrity with a good nickname.
I also feel the need to point out we see Jack go to the real world as Sandy Claws, and the others can magically keep watch him. They know about the human world, they go there solely on Halloween to scare people, then prepare for next year.
However your points on the lyrics are entirely valid.
Here's how I see it: the major is the mayor, the elected official, and he does the mundane day-to-day doldrum of running a town. But Jack is the personality of the town. He leads the celebration and people listen to him not because he has a title or power, but just because they all admire him and would do whatever he asks. It's pure social power.
Hoo boy, this is a brave choice.
*Gulp*
Hope people can be civil. I mean, I know they WON'T, but I can still hope. 🤷♂️
I don't think anyone is going to be sending him death threats, but this does come off as a very petty critique based on what I've watched so far.
It's really refreshing seeing someone critique _Nightmare Before Christmas_ without just falling into the *MOVIE BAD EVERYONE WHO LIKE IT DUMB* camp! I'm really looking forward to part 2~! :)
He's king cuz everyone else is afraid of him. In the land of scares, he who scares most is king.
As for duties, the mayor clearly relies on him for Halloween celebration planning, although what that actually involves is ambiguous. Also why a king and a mayor in one town?
The ambiguity is the issue, really. I love the idea of a "Pumpkin King" but if it's even less specific than the "Tiger King" then I think it's a problem 😆
@@brentalfloss You are not wrong dude. Aside from five minutes of kicking Oogie butt at the end, we really don't get to see what makes Jack so special that everyone fawns over him. Which is a shame, because the King of Halloween Town should be completely badass.
The mayor being useless and redundant to planning might be the point of the character. Political humor!
@@KynElwynn That's what monster he is: the two-faced politician.
Pumpkin King is more like a symbolic title, like The King of Pop. Jack is the best at scaring over anyone else at halloween town, he's the highest celebrity and thus has the highest social status. The Mayor is more like the official elected "leader", and is the one to do the paper work and handle more of the public relation side of things.
I mean Jack could be a "king" in a popularity sense. No real power but shit, he's the coolest guy. Bro's da king.
11:26 Point is, in that universe, he's infamous, like the boogeyman, Jack the Ripper, or fear itself.
I've always thought that Jack is the "Pumpkin King" in the same sort of capacity that someone is made the Mardi Gras king.
I can't believe Brent wasn't smart enough to figure out he's not a literal king.
The title "Pumpkin king" just means the favorite amoung the crowd i'm pretty sure. It's no diffrent from Prom king i think. And the "crown" is all figurative
10:00 Okay this video is making me apreciate the brazilian dub a lot more, in this scene in brazil he says (in direct translation) "Out there far from my home
, My heart wants to take me" and it rymes perfectly (in portuguese, you have to trust me there)
Preface: I’m not a lyrical genius, I’m a beginner lyricist, and this is definitely a “different strokes for different folks” type thing. I’m also not a fan of this movie, I respect it and don’t mind it but it’s not my favorite.
I agree with a lot of the critiques about the lyrical inconsistencies where stuff doesn’t align with the story (that pumpkin king stuff drives me nuts) BUT I just want to say that not all songs have to rhyme. If you’re reading this and you’ve listened to a lot of music you probably know that; some songs are just more tune focused to the point where you could almost put any word in the song and it would still sound good. It looks weird on paper and is definitely a preference based thing over wether songs have to rhyme or have a strong rhyme scheme, but that’s honestly one of the parts of the movie’s songs I don’t mind.
True, not all songs have to rhyme, but I feel like that ties into Brent's point about how if you're going to blend styles and go against established form, it has to be so good it's transcendent. In this case, it just seems like he phoned it in on the lyrical structure and didn't keep it consistent. Conversely, not all Oingo Boingo lyrics rhyme but they have so many clever twists that it doesn't matter. And it's especially hard to swallow the idea that the songs are music first and the lyrics are just there to serve the melody when it's a musical film and the lyrics are supposed to advance the plot and serve as dialogue.
Critiquing music, in my opinion, is really hard to do without sounding overly pretentious.
And i for one, think you're doing an excellent job in these videos of offering criticism without sounding that way. Especially when talking about something so beloved. Well done.
6:25 Who says it's even _trying_ to rhyme? Music doesn't need to do so as long as it flows right and this is a prime example of this.
Just some lyric substitutes because why not:
“In this town we belong, everyone hail to the pumpkin song…”
“From Montana to Kentucky, I'm Mister Unlucky and a legend throughout England and France…”
“I say that we take a cannon, aim it at his door and then, knock three times and when he answers, Claws’ll be as good as dead…”
These aren’t great, but they at least make sense.
I don’t quite know if the composer was exactly trying to rhyme. I never felt like this movie was trying to rhyme, but the lyrics would just sometimes sound like they did. Something like that
Not to toot my own horn, but my current biggest lyrical writing accomplishment was rhyming "extramural" with "futile." Not many other words to choose from, so I'm very proud of finding a use for it.
I always even as a kid sort of connected pumpkins with Halloween. And the pumpkin king so hes the King of Halloween. So when he talks about his crown hes referring to being in charge of scary Halloweens and the production or orchestra of Halloween. He longs for something but has no idea what it is that he wants.
I actually had a thought about this this morning! Since his Taz-Mania theme critique, I found myself being more analytical with the lyrics I listen to. I had Jack's Lament on the mind earlier today, and something stood out to me about these lyrics...
And since I am dead, I can take off my head
To recite Shakespearean quotations
No animal, no man can scream like I can
With the fury of my recitations
The way that verse is structured sounds like he'd be picking up the pace with his list of examples of how scary he is, and that maybe that second half could shift focus onto something else other than quoting Shakespeare.
At the end of the day, though, I wouldn't change anything about any of these songs, because they're just so well put together as a whole that you don't notice these flaws at first. I always say the quality of art isn't necessarily about how few flaws it has, but rather how it can distract from them
I really wanted to like the Nightmare Before Christmas but watching it just left me baffled. The story was pretty good, yeah, the visuals were incredible obviously, but the music made me go insane. I literally couldn't take it
I feel like the not-so-quality lyrics fit in with what the movie was originally conceived as: A play on the corny, not-so-quality stop-motion Christmas movies.
Also, it's nice to see someone else FINALLY appreciate some of the background music from the Oogie's Revenge video game.
Good to see you back man
I love this series. Brings me such joy hearing people rag on about lyrics that don’t rhyme - finally someone gets me!
Also love the MAH BOI and Farnsworth jokes. Caught me off guard good.
“Is halloween town somehow part of the real world?”
Technically, considering the christmas world is connected to the real world if the third quarter of the movie is anything to go by, and considering Jack gets there by leaving halloween town and ending up in the forest with the holiday trees, I think it’s safe to assume the various holiday towns are in the same world as the humans, and the trees are merely portals to other locations in the world, namely the holiday towns.
Halloween Town clearly isn't on Earth. The sun in Halloweentown is a giant Jack-O-Lantern.
I always love when Brent specifies that, "it's [his] opinion." I just want to shout, "HOW DARE YOU HAVE ONE OF THOSE!"
As is the custom on the internet.
The crown is metaphorical just saying he is the king
The poem tried to rhyme "awe" with "door" so... there is precedent, your honor.
When the Flossman tells you don't @ me and I'm like, you're not my Dad, don't tell me what to do.
i think this really helps me understand why this movie isnt memorable to me. It has a story that you can follow, sure. and some nice music. But nothing else in the world that this movie takes place in makes any sense.
"...is it a spooky bible?" with that smirk got me good.
D.E is obviously speaking to the viewers when referencing "neighbors". It's a welcome wave. At least imo.
Sally serves an important purpose in the narrative. The line in Jack's Lament "Somewhere deep inside of these bones an emptiness became to grow" he is unknowingly referring to the lack of love in his life. The "longing that I've never known" is love. That's why the scene when Jack proclaims his love to Sally takes place on Spiral Hill It's the theme of "all you need is love" coming to fruition.
6:00 Fun fact: in the Brazilian dub of the movie (the second one, there's two for some reason) he is NOT the pumpkin king, he is called "King of horror" that sounds more like him to be honest
I think that the point of "to a guy in Kentucky, I'm mister unlucky" is to show he's scared so many people that he can bring up any place and give an example of what he's known as there
What a big departure from your normal videos, but done so excellently! Love to see more!
Me in the first five minutes: "ohhhh boy, can't wait to see what he thinks of 'to a guy in Kentucky, I'm Mr. Unlucky, and I'm known throughout England and France."
I think alot of your biggest issues with the lyrics are because Elfman's trying to emulate old children's literature in the lyrics. These pieces of literature often fudge their rhymes and mess around with bizarre nonsensical concepts that don't really affect the story but lead to memorable lines (things like to "to a guy in Kentucky" line).
Now I am wondering, why do song lyrics need to rhyme?
Cause they usually sound better is my guess. But I never had a problem with the non rhyming lyrics in the movie so maybe I'm insane.
A number of reasons, but mostly emphasis and rhythm (I think). Rhyming and alliteration tends to stick in one's mind.
i saw that edward scissorhands ballet on a school trip (before seeing the film!) and it made me cry and cry and cry. dont disparage it so!
Re: the "then vs more" rhyme. It's clearly supposed to be a rhyme with Door vs More, but they put the "and then" as an oddly metered pick-up of sorts. If the "and then" was removed entirely, the thought would still make sense ("I say that we take a cannon, Aim it at his door/Knock three times and when he answers Sandy Claws will be no more"). The rhyming pair of words would then be clearer, but in either case, the rhyming pair are not on the same beats.
So I was hoping you'd elaborate a bit more on your thoughts there, not only on "unnecessary" lyrics but also pick-up lyrics that aren't intended to be part of the rhyme and the potential resulting mismatch of beats.
That's an interesting interpretation, and within the bounds of that one couplet, it makes perfect sense! But according to that logic, when Shock says "if we blow him up to smithereens" the rhyming syllable would be "smith." So either way he's trading out an established rhyme scheme for an alternative one.
@@brentalfloss Yeah, it's the inconsistency that really gets me. But well done on the video and keep it up! Glad to see you back :)
The town's a bit weird the rhyme was a bit weird the music wasn't smooth either.
That's how they do it in Halloween Town.
I think Pumpkin King was a title for the best scarer in town. Not an actual king.
Jack tried to sell the Chrismas Town so he called it Chrismas Land.
So glad you managed to take time from Stardew Valley to make more videos.
I have not seen this film in quite some time, but I do believe that the 'we need to be patient' scene is quite clear. Sally suggests, perhaps in an attempt to get Dr. Finklestein's creepy, controlling attention off of her, that he could make other creations. When he looks at her, she tries to deflect any possible negative reaction by saying that she is restless and can't help it. The doctor then tells her, in an almost paternal fashion, that it is merely a phase and that they need to be patient for it to pass. I think that he means SHE needs to be patient for this 'phase' to pass so that she can be in better spirits (or at least in a state of mind where she is not constantly trying to poison her creator), while HE needs to be patient and try not to get too angry with her for disobeying him. Granted, later they are both a lot happier; she gets to be with Jack, while the doctor makes himself someone who actually WANTS to be around him, but still, I think that is what the doctor meant to say.
Well we see that jack is generally the guy in charge of running festivities for spooking and such
Oh my God, I loved it!! 🤣🤣😂
Want to see the 2nd part already!! 😃❤️
Taking on Nightmare Before Christmas? You sir, like to live dangerously!
"The fame and praise (come year after year) does nothing for these empty tears."
Granted it is a bit confusing to hear the first time, but it does make sense grammatically.
I always figured Pumpkin King has the same duties as Prom King.
Not to nitpick this review but I could've sworn the "patient" scene has its explanation through the dialogue. Finklestein declares Sally's his as a warning, trying to coax her into obedience. She tries to retort with "You can make other things" which gets a nasty look from him, she immediately back-peddles with "I'm restless, I can't help being disobedient". He dismisses that statement afterword with, "you're just going through a phase. We'll be patient and it'll pass."
Valid point! To me, it makes it sound like she has to be patient to work through this phase in order to get to something that happens in the future. But his goal just seems to be keeping her around for reasons that aren't clear. Is he affectionate for her, like sort of a father? Doesn't seem like it. Is she integral to his daily life? Doesn't seem like it, since he gets along fine when she's escaped and out in the world. The idea that her desire to escape is sort of a craving that'll pass if she's just patient is logical, but in the moment [for me anyway] it leaves this big question of what the point of it all is and what specific outcome will happen. My main beef is they could have established his specific wants and goals in like one line of dialogue, but it was never quite clear to me beyond just wanting to keep her around.
@@brentalfloss Eh, I got the impression that Sally's relation with Finklestein was she exists to be his maid/servant/lab assistant but because she has free will she keeps disobeying him and that gets him angry over it. It's the mentality of, "I created her so she has to obey me", you'd see something similar with one of the villains from The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It's a very black and white mentality but this was an early 90's children's film, America was struggling with how to be subtle and nuanced with character back then.
@@brentalfloss Great video all the same! Can't wait for part 2!
I honestly have never thought of this when watching the movie, and I love music and plan to (hopefully) write songs, so honestly listening to you do these lyrics 101 videos helps me, thank you
3 years later and I still get upset, when he gets upset at, “Christmas Land.” Christmas Town has a gate as to say, “Welcome to the Town!” Are you saying the entire Land of Christmas is just one town? What would that make everything OUTSIDE of Christmas Town? December Land?!?
'Pumpkin King' isn't an office. He's like a pageant organizer, a creative lead. And since he has his finger on the pulse (haha) of their town the mayor looks up to him.
There's no rhyme scheme. The lyrics are more like opera or poetry, not patter songs.
Jack probably does sneak back to Christmasburg more for recon but it would've been filler so it was cut.
Sally is an oracle who can see the future. She foreshadows it will go wrong to build tension for the viewer. Her crush is the reason she doesn't warn Jack. But yeah she straddles the line between character and 'Greek Chorus.' She should've been the narrator.
Tim Burton you stop using a fake screen name and show yourself
@@brentalfloss Please, Tim could never. You know hard that score was? Sometimes we had to take a violinist, string em up between two mike stands and make an example of em. Cruel, but effective. And you're talking about rhyme schemes!
Hey you managed to get it uploaded! Glad you pushed through the struggle, this has been my favorite of your Lyrics 101 so far.
Love it! I miss your work. I need to watch more of your videos.
Big fan of this movie, and really enjoyed this critique. Not things I ever really think of much when listening to a songs lyrics so its interesting to have it broken down like this. I always thought of "Pumpkin King" simply meaning he's just the best at scaring people but that could be from context that appears later in the movie and is a post first watch opinion.
Great vid Brentalfloss, looking forward to Part 2!
Oh man, this video is awesome Brent!! It's so great to have you back!
Super dope analysis, Mr. Brent. Please keep these up! Love me some artsy linguistics!
I mean... Jack seems like a pretty chill guy who doesn't mind being reffered to informally
I’m pretty sure Christmas land is the dimensions as a whole and Christmas town is either the capital or just where everyone lives.
Exactly. Like a state and a town inside it. But then Brent says "So are there *other* towns in Christmasland? Why don't we see *those* towns too??" So then I say "Brent, buddy, relax. It's just a movie."
I just thought "Pumpkin King" was a nickname since he loves pumpkins so much/grows the best pumpkins, sort of like "Burger King" or whatever. I don't think it's an actual title.
Another comment equated Pumpkin King to Prom King, being there just to show off popularity without holding any real power. It being mostly an empty title makes a lot more sense in context, since he doesn’t do any real leading beyond planning for Halloween
While I've always wondered about the crown thing, I also think it's meant figuratively? Like "oh, Jack is the best at Halloween so he's the king."
But I still want to see a crown on his skeletal head.
The line "trick-or-treat 'til the neighbors gonna die of fright" is obviously referring to the trick-or-treating children of the normal world.
welcome back to youtube buddy we have all missed you.Also would love to see this be made into a series just like you what if games had lyrics video's
20:43 Birds of prey actually DO eat the bones in their food for calcium. I guess it's really important when your entire body is bones.
As much as I love the movie, it's pretty clear that the script didn't have much in the way of rewrites. One of the sillier things I noticed: it took Lock, Shock and Barrel all of an hour to catch the Easter Bunny (Jack is still assigning jobs to the citizens lined up when they return, so clearly not much time has passed), but it takes them over a month to get Santa Claus.
The "Making Christmas" montage song starts on November 19th, 36 days before Christmas, so he assigned them the job to get Santa somewhere around November 15th or 16th ("Jack's Obsession" says Jack hasn't been out in a while, so two weeks inside his house at least). "Making Christmas" ends on Christmas Eve, so they apparently did nothing from the November 19th until December 24th. What exactly were they doing this whole time? Did it really take them a full month to find the right door? Did they keep fucking up offscreen and coming back with a giant turkey, Uncle Sam, Christopher Columbus, Punxsutawney Phil, Jerry Seinfeld, Cupid, Moses, and a Leprechaun all month?
As an artist who LOVES animation and had a special interest in stop-motion and puppets, growing up, my family and friends couldn't fathom why I seemed underwhelmed by this movie. It always came up and I was always treated like I was expected to worship the ground Tim Burton walked on, simply because this movie exists. I'm not even hating on the movie; It's just not up my alley. I have been working through the reasons I have a hard time jumping on the bandwagon for years, and sloppy lyrics is one of the big ones. I'm no musical expert and I've had a hard time putting my opinions into words. You've helped me with that. Thanks.
Funnily enough, the lyrics rime in spanish. Never actually watched the movie in english so I never knew this.
I really love this movie, and I enjoy your content Floss!
Yeah but Spanish has many many many more rhyming words WAIT WHY AM I DEFENDING IT