1984 Cadillac Coupe DeVille - Timing Component & Water Pump Replacement
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Bolt torque specifications: 1984coupedevill...
How I replaced:
Crankshaft Sprocket
Camshaft Sprocket
Timing Chain
Timing Cover Oil Seal
TIming Cover Gasket
Water Pump + Gasket
(This video does not include disassembly performed to access the timing case. Such a video will be made some point soon...)
All parts and supplies purchased at Winchester Auto:
www.winchestera...
your videos have helped me so much with my 84. really wish u had did more videos tho. yours are the only ones i can find that cover a 84 deville.
Keep in mind a stellar technician is tough to find and worth a fortune to dealers and customers alike. Keep up the good work. It will surely be worth it.
Best video so far on installation. Thanks.
The only thing I took out to make my job easier was the radiator. :) I find out that the more parts I take off in the repair process, everything becomes 10 times more complicated, so I'm trying to leave as much intact as possible. Glad you enjoyed the video. :D
There was no dot on the crankshaft gear, so I spent a couple hours reading up on timing chain replacement to figure out how to properly align it. I also asked around, and after all my research, I realized that I was supposed to align the key mark with the dot on the cam sprocket. This was my first timing chain replacement, so I'm definitely not an expert -- definitely do some research and ask around.
I hope your timing chain replacement goes smoothly. Let me know how it goes.
Thanks! My first try. I'm enjoying the learning experience. Lots to improve on by the next time I do a water pump replacement in the future! Glad you enjoyed the video. :)
Thanks for the values. My best guess was really very close to those values. In fact, what I did by hand before grabbing my torque wrench needed little improvement. I'm just finishing putting the accessories back on right now. And you are right about the tube in the manifold. I didn't see any reason to remove and re-install it.
Smart idea of taking the front clip off the car (which i'm assuming you did because you are standing right up next to the engine...feel free to correct me if i'm wrong), that made the job easier & i'm almost positive a lot faster. very informative & great vids as usual :)
Me too! I can't wait until mine is running.
When I took the distributor off, I marked the location of the rotor with a permanent marker on the base. I'll upload a drawing of how mine was aligned for you when I get home in a couple hours.
About 5 years ago l wish l seen this video, l followed a Chilton book & they showed the timing chain marks dot to dot. Of course it would back fire & not fully run. Then l seen this video.guess what lam breaking back into it now to set it Right dot to key way.Never again l tell you lol, thank you for the video that sets it Right.Big Help!!!
The diagram from AllDataDIY says that when the dots are lined up, the number one cylinder is at TDC, and since there were dots in identical locations on both old and new sprockets, I feel confident about lining up the dots. The keyway itself, in this case, isnt the indicator of TDC. If in doubt, I think you could measure it manually through the spark plug hole to confirm. Since I had a nice agreement between the sprockets and the diagram, I ended up not confirming it manually.
Ah, no problem. I'm 99% sure there wasn't a dot on mine, but when I get home from work today, I'll clean up my old one and make sure I didn't miss anything, just to be 110% sure.
Thanks for all your comments. :)
Re: the o-ring, I later found out that there is a coupling between the manifold and the thermostat housing that comes out, and then the oring goes between that and the manifold. :) So yes, you're right, something wasn't quite right. I need to update the video. I'm happy to report that my caddy is running without leaks. It turned out perfect!
I uploaded the diagram for the torque values of the nuts for you. Link is now in the video description. :)
Great Video! It has been very helpful.
Two quick questions.
First, during your 'Prep O-Rings...' portion I noticed something that wasn't quite right. I don't believe the rubber o-ring that goes on the manifold is supposed to go behind the lip. I believe it is supposed to go in front of it and that both the large ones end up getting smashed together to ensure a good seal.
Second, what are the torque values for the large bolts and nuts for the studs and the small bolt and nuts on the studs.
Just sent you an email a little bit ago. I also miraculously found three other videos I took that day. Not sure they will help you, but I uploaded them anyway and sent you the links in a second email.
i already have the timing cover on and the accessories on...but i bought the chain kit from autozone. the dot on the crack gear is very light compared to cam gear. its about 3 or 4 teeth away from the key
Sorry to hear the bolts didn't work out. Did you learn anything that might help me when I employ my custom-threaded-rod installer?
If you're interested in seeing how I plan to do it, I'd be happy to upload a drawing of the tool I'm making. The only uncertainty in my method is weather a 9/16" threaded rod is thick enough to do the job (considering most installers seem to be like 3/4"-1" thick).
I had to take a break from the project after I put the timing cover back on because of another component I had to hand-fabricate, so I'm just getting back to putting the rest of the components back on. I'll let you know how it goes.
Btw, did your Fleetwood come with a crankshaft bolt? Mine had a cork....
I've been doing all these repairs under the guidance of a mentor that has 10+ years of repair experience. He was one of three people I had confirm the alignment of the sprockets.
Sounds good. I hope you find a bolt that works. For my own curiosity, let me know if it's anything other than a 9/16"-12.
how did your engine run afterwards. so far this vid is the only reference i have to work with. i bought the car with timing components already torn apart. im hoping to have it running by the end of the week
A few observations:
1. ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES. There are so many chemicals, possible exposure to oil/petroleum products, that is eventually can cause health hazards. It is also much faster/easier to just peal off the pair of gloves and move to a fresh set when you go from cleaning dirty parts to installing the cleaned parts. It is also the chance to avoid cutting yourself on metal shards or other edges that gloves are a great investment. Most auto stores now sell the latex gloves for all of these reasons.
2. NEVER apply the sealant to the engine side of the gasket! This only ensures you will have to use a scraper to remove it in the future repair. If you use RTV, ONLY PUT IT ON THE WATER PUMP SIDE of the gasket as you will be replacing the water pump on future repairs, therefore, it is not a problem for it to adhere to that side.
Rather, you should use a thick, wheel-barrel style of grease on the engine to gasket sell. This way, it will quickly and easily come off in the future.
The problem(s) in having to scrape a gasket is that you risk scratching the engine surfaces that would lose oil, pressure, or anti-freeze in the future.
3. BOLT PATTERN: it is always best to see if the manual has a BOLT PATTERN for you to use when tightening up the bolts. It is correct to hand-tighten them, but if your book does not give a precise order for bolt patterns (of the tightening), then you should start at the center of the water pump (or other device) and work outwardly. If you were to tighten outer edge bolts before the inside bolts, you can create a binding or gap that will leak.
On the water pump for the HT 4100, there are different size bolts down to a few studs. Getting the larger bolts priority for initial tightening is best.
We hope not to have to disassemble engines, but when you do have to; having put the grease on the engine-side will be a valuable lesson you will appreciate having read this note today.
Best wishes,
Brennan
i have it set up at key to dot. the notch on the balancer seemed to be way off if its dot to dot. i ended up using a rubber mallet instead. all i have left is to install the plug wires and all the pulleys. if it dont run im going to match up the dots on the gears.
We're in the same situation. You're going to have a hard time finding a harmonic balancer installer kit with the right adapter. I can't find one at all. I can't get a long enough bolt that fits the crankshaft to install it either. The bolt that fits is 9/16"-12 (course thread). Not even specialists carry it. Do you know how you're going to put your harmonic balancer back on? I'd rather not use a mallet.... Some people heat it in the oven to make it expand. I'm considering that method.
nice work
im going to look for a bolt at work. we have a wall full of hardware. might steal a few to find one that works with some big washers
i found a few bolts that kind of worked... but did not go to well so i just used a mallet on that hub
Alex, you were COMPLETELY right about the sprocket alignment. I fixed the alignment over the weekend. Thank you SO much for saving me hours and hours of unnecessary confusion and work! I uploaded the correct alignment diagram to my project website if you're interested (1984coupedeville dot wordpressCOM).
Thanks again!!
Help me please, how you call that part in second 43,you are installing the Oring.It go whit the water pump together.
Good job!! 😅❤
no problem. i want to drive this fleetwood already. do you happen to have the distrubitor rotor aligned as well not to sure if i did mine right
I have a later model 4.9 but basically the same. I would like to know if you had success using the Hylomar on the front cover gasket. The racing formula type that you used is the kind with acetone in it. Permatex sells it now. I have read complaints about it being so sticky and much harder to use than the regular blue Hylomar. I'm not as concerned about how sticky it is as much as if it seals. It's too big of a job to have to do over. One of my fears is the coolant leaking from the water pump ports into the front of block getting into the oil.
Wow, sorry for the late reply.. seems like UA-cam never sent me a notification about your comment. Yes, the hylomar has worked great so far. No leaks, no problems.
I am confused, dot to dot or dot to key way? On the 4.1l V8
What size bolt did you use to turn it over to line up the mark on timing chain sprocket?
well i double checked and im still confused. if you align the key with the dot on the cam gear and just mock up the cover along with the balancer. the notch on the balancer shows to be at tdc. but if you do the dots together the notch is at way before tdc....i think
PS: If you have any other questions or wanted to see any other video, let me know. I'll do my best to help out.
im also doing a chain on my 84 fleetwood. 4.1. wouldnt the key mark on pulley be out of time if it is aligned with the dot on cam?
Am talking about cadellic with six cylinder right bent camshaft oil seal driving by the weter pump
Can you take a picture of your original cam sprocket in it's original position and email it to me? I want to see if yours looks the same. If yours has two dots, then you should definitely align the two dots.
Will do. :)
How did you remove the crankshaft flange that the actual balancer bolts to?
Thanks. :)
I do have problem with the water pump, my car is Cadillac Fleetwood 1985 4.1L. i couldn't find the water pump that fit on my car. i think that one you did replace it looks the same where did you get it?
thank you!
+Mohammed Aleidan I have a lifetime warranty replacement from Pep Boys. The water pumps are also available at AutoZone. I find that O'Reilies also many of the parts. All three often have lifetime warranty parts for you. IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO CREATE A BINDER WITH CLEAR SHEETS to protect your receipt collection. I have thousands of receipts on my car from 1989 to today. I keep them in alphabetical order for the auto stores, then I have them in YEAR protective sheets after that. That means that for NAPA 1989, there is a 3-M piece of paper with "1989" that is held in the upper right hand corner of that sheet and then you turn the sheet and there is "1990" and so on.
When auto store workers see me show up with 4-binders of alphabetically/chronological organized receipts, it tends to intimidate them. They just give me the warranty part or "in-store credit," but they do not want to look through my thousands of receipts even if they are well-organized. It is fun to watch their eyes when I pull out my binders. Yes, they think you are a freak, but they just want to get to the next customer without seeing all of the old receipts.
The other problem I have with the old receipts is that many stores such as Pep Boys have historically used heat-printed receipts and they all fade away over the decades. YOU MUST REMEMBER that they might have an electronic warranty for your parts. That is what happened on my 1994ish water pump that I did not get around to using until 2010 to install on the car; and then while it was still functional in 2015, I had to remove the timing cover and do other things. Since I am already disassembling the engine to this point, I AM ONLY INSTALLING NEW PARTS WHENEVER POSSIBLE.
A few weeks ago, I went to Pep Boys with the old water pump AND MY ORIGINAL BOX (ALWAYS KEEP YOUR BOXES!!!). That original part and original box meant they could know it was a brand they sold in the early to mid 1990s and it helped when I could not show them a receipt that had the actual part number on it. Here I had thousands of receipts and they could see I make a serious effort to be prepared, but what finally helped was that the worker looked it up on their computer and I did not recall Pep Boys tracking warranty issues back in the early 1990s, but they did have it listed! WONDERFUL. That guy did a great job. Now I have NEW PAPERWORK to show I got the part from them and I have the lifetime warranty on the new water pump.
Mohammed, I have no idea of where you live, but finding most of your engine parts should still be easy enough to accomplish. Getting the stores to sell you the CORRECT PART is another thing. You should normally take your broken/old parts with you so you have it to compare and show them what you need.
BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STORE WITH THE NEW PARTS, be sure to open the box/package. MAKE SURE ALL ADDITIONAL PARTS/GASKETS are included. Also be sure you got the right part. Some electrical parts NEVER can be accepted back as they do not know if you shorted out the part and then just claimed "it was the wrong part." Take more time when visiting the parts store to ASK QUESTIONS. They are there to serve you!
AUTOZONE: if you are using their REWARDS PROGRAM, ONLY BUY $20 worth of parts at a time and return after more than an hour. If you buy $40 in parts, you only get one (1) point instead of getting two (2) points as you should get for the amount of money spent. It is a serious pain. If you buy a $200 part, that is still only one (1) point. When you earn five (5) points, they "give" you a store credit of $20. Therefore, you need all of the points you can possibly get along the way. I understand they want to encourage folks to spend at least $20, but AUTOZONE IS SCREWING THE GUY WHO BUYS MORE THAN $20 at a time!!! EVERYONE SHOULD TELL AUTOZONE TO UPDATE THEIR PROGRAM OR DROP IT ALTOGETHER.
Best wishes,
Brennan
Depending on what you selected when telling them your vehicle will change the motor. Cadillac in the mid 80's had different 4.1 V8s due to the cars changing from rear to front wheel drive but the names of the cars stayed the same. If it's a Fleetwood Brougham which is RWD it has a different 4.1 Vs the regular Fleetwood which is FWD and has a different 4.1
How do you take off the timing cover
Never put silicone on a gasket all that does is create a slippery point for the gasket to squish out if you must glue the gasket to the part don't glue it to the engine use super weatherstrip adhesive and if you must use some kind of sealant put a thin coat of Right Stuff gasket maker but a very thin coat has to not let the gasket squish I don't know why they show silicone on the water pump boxes that's the stupidest thing you can do with a gasket
Hello, Great video, I have a 4.1 liter v8 1983 and I have a problem with the harmonic balancer during extraction with a pulley puller, it will not come out, the pulley puller folds, and the harmonic balancer didn't come out... have you got a solution for me?
In advance, thank you
Yikes. I didn't have that problem when I took my harmonic balancer off (although putting it back on took me a couple months to figure out...).
Btw, just to be clear, when you say harmonic balancer, you don't mean the pulley, right? You're talking about the smaller metal cylinder that's pressed onto the crank shaft, right?
Removing a stuck harmonic balancer is probably beyond my skill level. You might want to google "how to remove a stuck harmonic balancer" as well as hit up the guys over in the Caddy forums. Those guys over there are experts. www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/
team14robot Thank you for your answer :)
I want to say is how to remove the harmonic balancer tightly mounted on the crankshaft and the rotary motion is retained by a key on the crankshaft, and my engine, the harmonic balancer will not go out, even when I uses an extractor, this one bends :/
if you do not have a solution, there is no problem ;)
Thank you for the forum :)
+team14robot hi what is the part number of crank Socket to turn the crank this a 4.1 engine
+soloM81 Hi Velvet and Solo, I am dealing with the exact problem on the main pulley. All of the kits I owned and the ones I rented from AutoZone have too large of a shaft to go through the yoke (center portion) of the cone that is on the inside of the pulley. I forgot what I did in 2010 to work around this problem the last time I worked on the water pump project. I also had to deal with it in 1995ish when I installed the new long-block engine and before that around 1994ish when my original engine failed.
I have had the car since 1989 and only had to deal with these issues those approximate dates.
If anyone has solved the problem, I welcome hearing from you! My car is outside and the weather is getting colder. Fall has fallen upon Kentucky and I hate working on the car in the cold. Having used a couple different puller devices, none worked. So then I tried putting three smaller sockets into that narrow yoke (hole) and having the puller to push against it, but that still has not freed the pulley. It is frustrating!
Goodnight,
Brennan
Alex, were you able to find a bolt and install your harmonic balancer? We've resorted to ordering a threaded rod on McMaster.com which I'm going to grind down one end to allow me to grab it with a wrench while I press the harmonic balancer on with a nut, bearing and washer to mimic the real harmonic balancer installer kit as much as possible. Let me know how things go for you, and I'll be sure to let you know how my method works out too.
Did u get ur caddy running
*whether... sorry for the typo.
no bolt...
What? Are you asking a question?
My Cadillac is an 4.1L V8.
I have a leak in the pipe that comes from the temperature gauge to the engine block on my 83' for the coolant. I'm new to working on this type of car as my grandfather left it to me. I'm not sure what this part is called or how to replace it. Any tips?
Yeah, the coolant sensor gauge is what I meant. It's the metal pipe that connects the engine block to the temp sensor housing. *****
It's a 83' HT4.1 Coupe DeVille d'Elegance
***** Thank you soo much. My Grandpa liked to collect cars and I have no idea why he bought this and never fixed it.
*****
Thank you graciously. Did you happen to take a picture of that diagram. I hate to bug you.....You're the only one I've gotten any help from.
*****
You are so awesome!
Hey, was your harmonic balancer a press on or bolt on?
press on. we had to create our own custom installer tool because the generic ones at the auto parts store wouldn't work.
My camshaft and crankshaft marks dont line up? What do i do now?
Uh oh, that's no good. Before I answer your question, I have a few questions for you:
1. Does the car run at all? If it runs, does it run poorly?
2. Is this a Cadillac? What year and model?
3. How did you find out that the marks aren't lining up? Did you take off all the belts and pulleys and have a look? The mark on my crankshaft gear was a TEENY TINY triangle that I DIDNT EVEN SEE until I removed it from the crankshaft. How certain are you that the marks aren't lining up?
4. By how many teeth has it gone out of alignment? Can you tell?
*DISCLAIMER:* While I know perfectly the procedure by heart to replace the timing chain/sprockets, water pump, etc on my 84 deville, I don't entirely feel qualified to give you advice in this particular case because I haven't researched all the causes of it. The only causes I know of are worn timing gears or a stretched chain. In those cases, you do a timing gear and chain replacement (and in this case I ALWAYS do a water pump replacement if it's over like 50k miles so that you dont have to worry about taking that whole thing apart again.
Here are a couple things you can do:
*1. Check out Cadillac Forums for advice.* Search the cadillac forums for any posts about timing gear misalignment. If you dont find the answer you're looking for, make a post there. Be very specific about the symptoms and your observations, and there are a lot of super experienced guys there to help you with advice.
1900-1984 Deville, 1985 Fleetwood Forum: www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/
FWD Cadi Forum: DeVille 1985 to 2005 including 1985-1992 Fleetwood, 1993 Sixty Special: www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/
*2. Make an appointment with a trusted local shop to do a formal diagnosis* to make sure you pin point the exact cause of the problem. Run the shops results by the Cadillac forum if you're wary about what they claim is the source of the problem. You're welcome to run by me what the shop's verdict is, and I'm happy to comment on whether anything sounds suspicious.
*3. Get a shop manual off ebay.* These are usually cheap and 100 million percent indispensable. I wouldn't even attempt this kind of work without a shop manual.
I hope this helps.
team14robot 85 fleetwood brougham delegance. it runs. Took everything apart down to the timing chain and the gear marks dont line up. Off by 2 teeth give or take Was making a squeal noise but I dont think it had anything to do with the timing
The original Milkshake motor
well sounds like im going to take it back apart them..smh