Here's my best ground rod story: I set up power for a small concert connected to mains with approx 250 feet of romex. I had a bunch of six foot stainless steel rods, so I drove a couple of them behind the stage and bonded to the ground. The musicians, being accustomed to always hearing a little hum, at first thought their amps were dead because they were so quiet!
Breaker is an over current protection device , that's all . When a short to ground happens , the low resistance ground connection will allow current to flow that will exceed the breaker and cause it to trip . Not talking about arc fault or gfi breakers . All this to say if you extend a hot wire to a ground rod the breaker will trip
That's true for mains and such. But what he's referring to is the RF/EMF harmonics in the device, and were cleaned up by having good grounds. Has nothing to do with current or circuit breakers. @anonymouslyominous33
I just put a Faraday cage around the whole band. 😂 Seriously, I've had the most problems from idiots that cut the ground off of their power plug. Sooner or later they find out it's there for a reason. I guess that qualifies as an electrifying performance.
Thank you. I now understand what I didn't fully understand before. I am a Industrial Electrician for 17 years. I've wired up new machinery, ran conduit, installed and programmed PLCs, and was one of our best troubleshooter. The way you explained bonded and floating neutrals just clicked in my head. The path to grounds and neutrals, bonded and unbonded, are what did it. Thank you again.
Appreciate your honesty, but this is exactly why I DIY almost everything. A lot of the times, I’m gonna know more than the guy in the van and he is still going to charge me 50/hr.
An industrial electrician of 17y whom DOESN’T understand grounding? That makes sense….🙄. How did you get licensed? Oh that’s right…school = nerds, apprentice = more work. Yay!
I'm a design engineer and love that you mentioned about GROUNDED and GROUNDING and these terms are not interchangeable. Thanks man. I've been telling engineers that for years and these young designers who believe they are. Right now, I believe it very important in what I'm doing as currently I'm working on substations as a relay and control designer. Some here don't get it and I'm shocked at that - no puns intended. Nice that you mention it.
I agree and have witnessed this happen many times. Ask five "professionals" and they will give you their opinion and swear everyone else is wrong. Realtors, home inspectors, electricians, flight instructors, etc.
Exactly. There are so many people using pseudoscience on UA-cam telling people they don't need a grounding rod. Next thing you know they are getting electrocuted by hot skin.
I would disagree at the 8:30 mark... During a ground fault the current can either flow through a short circuit path (i.e. the ground wire back to the generator) or through some dirt (resistance), then through you (more resistance) and finally through the ground rod back to the source. I don't think electricity is going to take this path. Assuming you have a good ground/ short circuit setup, this is why you can place your bare hand on the welding table during the welding process since the path through the table is essentially a short circuit and will choose this over traveling through your hand.
Usually I watch these videos and cringe...this video is an amazing video to show EXACTLY what to do..I will def recommend you to anyone who needs any information. Great job and I subbed. Keep up the GREAT work.
I finally understand “bonding” within a system! Thank you for this. I have watched other videos and was only more confused. Seeing the “big picture” system graphics and demonstrations made everything is so clear now. Great work and teaching methodology.
Actually Tony, bonding only ensures everything within a specific area is tied to the same voltage. Often there is a neutral to ground voltage around 3 vac depending on your distance from your supply transformer. If things go horribly wrong and this voltage goes above the level needed to travel thru you, everything that is bonded will also be at the same voltage. I'd definitely look for more answers than this video, I'm sure he means well, bless his heart
If I am not using a transfer switch, but instead have a 50 amp receptical that connects directly to the house breaker box after an interlock lever is thrown (forcing the main breaker to be turned off before the 50 amp receptacle is turned on and used) can I safely connect the proprietary 50 amp cord from the generator to the 50 amp receptacle to power my house with a non bonded portable generator that is not connected to a ground rod? No transfer switch used in this scenario…
I had an electrician explain this and I didn’t get it at all. Now I do thanks to your great diagrams and easy to understand explanations. Great job. Thank you
FINALLY !!! A guy who knows what he is talking about ! Not some backyard DIY guy who THINKS he is an electrician !!! I’ve been an electrician for 50 years and it gripes me to see people giving wrong and dangerous advice just so they can make a UA-cam video. If you screw up plumbing, you get wet ! If you screw up electricity, you die ! ( no disrespect to plumbers intended).
In Canada the generators I could find were are all bonded neutral but my home transfer switch required an unbounded neutral generator. Champion sent me instructions to unbound the neutral on the generator I purchased but I never understood the ground requirement. Thanks for the great explanation you probably saved me from a shocking experience on a wet and windy evening.
Never understood why portable generators are shipped bonded. It's easy to build a plug to bond at will. Unbonding a bonded generator is more involved. Heck, why not just include a bonding switch on the generator?
I wish my generator manual was more explcit about this. It does state that it's a floating neutral and advises to consult an electrician regarding a ground rod, but it doesn't mention the importance of consulting an electrician regarding the neutral bond. That MIGHT make sense in the case of a stand-alone generator that is intended to be used for powering something connected to the grid, but for a PORTABLE generator, it would seem that the manufacturer should know that folks are going to use it for RVs and to power worksites, and should issue a similar advisory regarding its floating neutral status.
Great video. The diagrams are on point and make this complicated topic easier to understand. At around the 15 minute mark you talk about the reason for having the supplemental ground rod at the generator. Another reason for the supplemental ground rod is because Earth potential at the service ground rod and Earth potential at the generator site would not be the same. Without the generator ground rod he frame of the generator would be lifted to the potential of the service ground rod, and there could be a difference in potential between the frame of the generator and the earth at the generator site, meaning you could get a shock when touching the frame. By adding the supplemental ground rod at the generator, you ensure that the generator frame has the same potential as the earth that you're standing on.
Great vid! "Generator" is solidly defined as where the electricity originates. For the vast majority, the "generator" is the power supply company (SMUD, P.G.&E., etc), with their 240v lines coming into our homes (United States). They *exclusively* use the physical earth as the ground.
THANK YOU for this video. I have a bonded generator and I thought adding the copper grounding rod was a necessary step for camping. I appreciate your video and how clear you were about everything. Subscribed.
At 1:45, the ground (green) has two paths to earth. The transfer switch is connected to the "incoming service" ground and to the "generator" ground and both are connected to ground rods. So you end up with two paths to earth. At 15:40, you only have one path to ground (earth), from the "generator" to the "transfer switch" to the "incoming service" then earth. Contradicts what you said earlier about having two paths. I'm not an electrician but it's what I see. Great video. Thanks for posting & Best Regards - Mike
Should the generator manual specify the grounding for the unit? So far the Champion Equipment generator manual says to use external grounding. Very confusing
This is an absolutely correct explanation of generator connections. Very well explained. To be clear, the available fault current from small generators is no where near high enough to quickly trip a breaker magnetically from a fault. It will however, for a longer period of time trip from overcurrent. It is splitting hairs!
FINALLY!!! All these videos on UA-cam explaining bonded versus floating versus hubba habba versus ooga booga, LOL! It's all been Greek up until this point (The one video had a title almost exactly like yours but then when I go to watch it it's just him creating a bonded neutral plug; I mean???). THANK YOU SO MUCH for making a video that's clear to understand and intelligent. Great job! 🎉
Outstanding well done video. I feel this topic needs to be done at multiple technical levels. I have been shocked ( pun intended) how many struggle with this.
Thanks for this! The detailed walk through of various scenarios was very helpful. I'm installing a generator inlet in my house, connected to a sub-panel that's isolates generator from utility service via interlock. I have been struggling to understand the scenario you describe around 11:20, and how to appropriately ground/bond the generator. Now I know. Many thanks!
Wow. What a great video and well explained that even a kid can understand it. 👏. I have wired house and im now a lineman for 15+ yrs. And the graph, pics and explanations are on point brother. I was trying to explained to my neighbor how everything work and im not a teacher. Lol🤪 but im going to show him this.
Lots of valuable info here. Kuddos to you. My only take away is at 7:04 when you show your generator bond jumper. I think you need to slow down and show the bond. There is a lot to look at here and you brushed over it too quickly. Also, when you describe a circuit path, your mouse pointer is flying across your sccreen. I had to slow it all dowwn to catch what you are showing. You have great graphics and know what you are talking about. You have the audience wanting to learn. Your info is valuable. I'd hate for viewers to turn it off because the mouse pointer is flying around. Otherwise, great job. Best description of grounding and bonding.
Thank you. I have tried to explain this to others more than I can count. This is the best explanation I have ever found. Thanks again for putting this one out there.
This video is awesome, being someone who could have been killed by a generator that was run with an improperly wired system I'm here to tell you this all matters. I was using a generator that was wired into a transfer switch that was set up wrong at my mother in law's house and I was getting 120 volts between the generator chassis and the earth! I went to move the generator a little bit in it's little shed to have the exhaust pointing the right way and got shocked really bad. Had I not been wearing safety boots and not wearing rain gear I would very likely be dead.
USE A GROUNDING SOURCE ON ALL GENERATORS!!! One thing this guy did not mention in his video was Inductive Voltage (Stray Voltage) that comes from Motors. If your using a Floating Neutral Generator were the Motor is grounded back to the Generator but the Generator itself is not bonded to Earth Ground, there is the possibility of the Inductive Voltage accumulating in the Frame of the Generator even-though the Generator is NOT Grounded to the Frame (because it will act as a Capacitor), and if that Voltage builds up high enough and someone touches the frame of the Generator especially with a can of Gasoline in their hand, well all it takes is a spark to end bad. If the Generator doesn't have a Ground screw, add one to it, or Permanently add a wire to it with a clamp on the end so it's there to remind you to Ground it to something (Outside AC Condensing unit, a Light Pole, etc).
You just answered my question I bought a 165 kw gen mounted it on a trailer built a pannel to run some RVs or my house. There's the hard ground wire under it I was going to drive a ground rod were we camp on our land and hook to it . Or when at my house can clamp onto ground rod at pole by my transfer switch
Yeah, that was the whole reason. I was watching this video because on my generator they tell me I should Have an earth ground with a copper rod. So this guy didn't help me either. You helped me. I just wanted to know why I had to use a copper rod with my generator and he never explained it. Thank you, sir.😊
Hi bradw.5991, you mention ALL GENERATORS, but go on to speak only of floating neutral generators. What is the case with a bonded neutral generator? surely no inductive voltage can accumulate as the casing is bonded to the source point of the generator, thus mitigating the risk of shock?
@@jamesdamien121 Please list the Model and Model number of the Portable Generator that we are talking about in these comments that has a Bonded Neutral. I would be very interested to know of the one you are questioning about. As far as your Bonded neutral Generators, most of those are Permanent Fixture appliances and are governed by the Codes in the NEC for proper grounding. The problem with the 'older' Portable Bonded Neutral Generators was the same issue talked about here. The Generator frame was never Grounded, but since the Frame and the Neural are now connected, the risk for electric shock was even greater. Remember, in a Electrical Fault the Power from the Hot lead doesn't want to go to Ground, it wants to go back to the other side of its source (either the other Hot 240VAC circuit or Neutral (center tap) 120VAC circuit), but it uses the ground as a conductor. If the Bonded Neutral Generator Frame is not grounded, the Fault cannot travel thru the ground back to the Frame to its power source (neutral). If you were to touch the Frame during this Fault and you were grounded to the ground say bare foot, you wouldn't have a good day.
@@bradw.5991 My TroyBuilt 5550 Watt portable generator is bonded. Model / Modelo 01919-1. The manual states the following. "The system ground is connected to the AC neutral wire (see “Equipment Description”, earlier in this manual)."
thank you i now have to rewire my own breaker panel🙃 and pull the ground rod for Geny. been installing new panels for years but only have done 3 geny breaker interlocks.i have to go back and fix and educate my clients about there Genys. you have saved me time and death for my clients. i wish you had more likes because this can save lives❤thanks for a great and informative video
You shouldn’t be doing this kind of stuff for “clients” unless you are 100% sure you know what you are doing. So many houses burn down because of hacks doing electrical work.
Thank you for this video. I now have a better understanding. I don't need to ground my portable generator with extension cords. I just need to bond the neutral and ground. How about an external GFCI breaker in line with the extension cord?
One thing to advise is that the generator breakers and generator receptacles he is referencing are GFCI breakers or GFCI receptacles. They the GFCI breakers and receptacles, use the Hot and Neutral for monitoring the circuit. A normal AC breaker in your house does not use the neutral for its monitoring. It senses current in the circuit only.
Thank you for this! It prompted me to look at the generator setup I am considering. Without your video, I would have installed a ground rod on a bonded generator using a transfer switch that does not disconnect neutral. Instead, I looked at the generator's manual. It does not show how to un-bond and says to use a grounding rod. A quick call to the manufacturer confirmed how to un-bond.
This has to be the most concise explanation I've ever found on this topic. I spent years wading through the unnecessarily complicated jargon, like the term "grounded conductor". I'm also glad to see you spoke to the topic of how some switches also switch the neutral. Ignorantly, I thought a switched neutral would protect linemen better from homeowners who switch on their generator when power fails. A switched neutral REQUIRES the generator to be correctly bonded, otherwise the fault voltage still appears on the neutral wire at the pole, with a very high resistance path back to generator.
Thank you for a very useful video. I'm on the cusp of getting a generator for those potential moments of temporary power blackouts forecast this winter. Like nearly all recent houses we have no alternative methods of heating other than gas central heating. I'd been thinking of going the whole hog and installing transfer switching but then counted all I really need are very few appliances, lighting, fridge, microwave etc. and all can be connected using a neat setup of extension leads. For heating -- I'd considered it no problem for the gas boiler to be powered off an extension lead too as the load from controls and pumps is less than 500W - but I'd been bothered about grounding. You have underlined the detailed care needed as the boiler, gas and water piping are all permanently bonded to earth throughout the house. Faucets, radiators, showers, sinks, towel rails, the works. Thanks for letting me better understand there exists a real problem here.
In Finland you need to switch the neutral also, so that the incoming neutral doesn't become hot in case of a fault on the incoming and there are linesmen working on it
😮 in Canada … we have safety laws … but I don’t think we have *that* one. After watching this, I’m educated-guessing that my generator isn’t bonded, and without neutral switching. 😳 the transfer box disconnects the live wires, oooooo, I had never thought about a fault dumping voltage into the wrong wire, and feeding the neural. 😱 I sincerely hope there is a circuit-breaker, or fuse, somewhere to prevent that. 🥺 inside the generator.
I don’t know enough about where bonded/neural-switching wound be required, by Building Code, but I’m guessing it’s defined by wattage, like >10kW must get the extra safety features. … below that, yeah, I think we rely on fuses or breakers. 😳
The way I understand it is, you could have a fault on the neutral, but if it can't complete a circuit through the transformer windings, it can't energize the transformer to become a risk. It has to flow through the center tap, and back through the other half of the winding, but the transfer switch prevents the completion of the circuit. Unless it failed or is shorted across the switch, there shouldn't be a problem. Even then, the entire switch would likely have failed, so an extra switching point wouldn't gain anything.
In Australia, breakers are combined overload breakers & earth leakage detectors. They will trip if more than the rated current is drawn through them. As well as if there is an imbalance of more than 30 milliamperes between active & neutral or more than 30 milliamperes is flowing in the earth wire. (In AU household circuits only have one active at 240 volts). They breakers are called Safety Switches because they will protect a person from electrocution if they are in contact with active & a ground path (Eg a water pipe or standing on wet concrete) and have high enough resistance so too little current flows to trip the breaker but there is enough current to cause cardiac arrest. (Provided this explanation in case safety switches are not used in US.) Now the thing is when a generator is connected to a house via a transfer switch, the safety switch imbalance system cannot detect an active to earth or an A & N imbalance fault because the generator is a floating source & there is no reference to earth. To overcome this issue, there is another type of breaker called a Residual Voltage Detector. This unit can be used in conjunction with a safety switch to cut off the electricity from a power source with a floating Active, Neutral & Earth. This bypasses the issue of generators needing bonding in some installations but not others for both overload & electrocution faults to be detected by safety switches. A link for more info if interested in how it works. Note they are mainly used in the mining & construction industries for worker safety. powersafe.net.au/rcd-duo/
Finally, I find one comment that sets it right regarding breakers tripping and how grounding and what we call here in the US, GFCI's (Ground fault circuit interrupters). Thanks for the good safety info, Mark!
in the case of 11:53, what happens when the power is restored to the main panel while the generator is running (transfer switch is in the generator feed position and neutral is shared and bonded only at the main panel)? Just asking in regards to the neutral since it will be shared while both generator and main is energized.
Thank you for that. Going to pop my main panel cover off and verify I am good. Then watch the video again, after wiping the blood from my ears from trying to comprehend all of this. But thank you for you patient explanation.
Question. I have a Genmax 10500 floating neutral generator. When I try to use the generator as a standalone unit the GFCI plugs on the generator always trip when i plug anything 3 prong into it. Even if I use a neutral bonding plug in one of the gfci outlets. In fact, the bonding plug TRIGGERS the GFCI to trip. Apparently in past iterations Genmax included a l14-30p neutral bonding plug to remedy the issue, but they have now omitted it in the accessory box to make room to give customers a quart of oil instead. How do I solve this problem? I do not know which prongs on a l14-30p plug are neutral and ground so I am not certain how to make one myself...
If you have a inverter generator connected to a manual transfer switch in a sub panel, and certain sensitive electronics like a furnace will not run because you have a floating neutral generator, does that mean that the ground for the house has been disconnected while using the transfer switch. And if that is true, then should the generator be bonded and grounded with a separate grounding rod? Thank You.
Funny story, way, way, before the internet was even in place or possibly before it was invented. I used a gas generator/welder at our sawmill. I did well when it was dry outside. When it was wet or even real damp, not so well, because I was the ground when welding in those conditions!! lol So I learned in a hurry to not be the ground! lol It has served me well!! lol I also learned to touch things that "might" be hot with the back of my hand, you electricians will know what I`m talking about. Ah, the good old days! Take care
Very good, I got a question mab u can help. I have 400 amp service it goes to an sub panel , off 1 of the main panels I have my well pump I added a room on the house use 1 circuit for that room I put in a GFIC in because it is a concert floor. Don’t know y but ever so often it will trip the gfic, It is all on the same ground rod, y will it trip the gfic?
Finally, an excellently explained video for generators and grounding and bonding. You were correct in your examples. Here is the weird one for you. Connecting an inverter, floating neutral, generator to an RV. First thing, the panel in the RV is a sub panel. No bonding neutral to ground. So, the generator needs the bonding jumper. Southwire makes a plug that you insert into the receptacle that has an internal conductor grommet N-G.
the ground rod is not needed for an RV because nothing is touching the "earth ground." The tires insulate the vehicle from lightning. Basically don't put your generator or inverter on the physical earth. An important fact is ground rods are for buildings that are attached to the earth not for RV's because they are not attached to the earth. Make sure to raise your leveling jacks or put wood under the feet :)
@@uhjyuff2095 Thanks for clarifying as I was wondering about the steel leveling jacks. As far as steel belted tires I'm certain the steel belts are in the tread only so the steel is insulated by rubber on tread and none in the sidewalls anyways.
@@michaeldepastene1510 ground/earth tires are made of rubber, they stuff was one of the first wire cable insulations used, so any tires, in good service, none of the in side handing out, would be the same putting hole RV, on one big rubber floor-mat?
@@jefffrayer8238 when I was 12, my mom was driving me back home from an outing & just as we were driving over a bunch of railroad tracks a lightening bolt came down about 5 feet from our car, hit the tracks, & that launched our car about 3 feet into the air. Had tires been electrically conductive, that lightning would have hit the car since the car was higher than the tracks. But it didn't.
My neutral bus and ground bus are connected in my circuit breaker panel. I see the grounding block and I have continuity just triple checking that since I have my system bonded at this point and not further up in the co-op, that my generator should be floating when used in this set up with a simple interlock switch.
what is the orange box in the bottom of you diagram? is that the main breaker box? if it is then the grounded will complete the circuit thru the main and back thru neutral ... you do not need the ground from the generator to the transfer switch ... the white box represent the main lines from the eclectic grid
In the bonded generator case with a switched neutral transfer switch isn't the generator ground still connected to the house ground via the transfer switch? That is what the diagram shows. Is that not the case, or if so why does the generator still need its own grounding rod?
What if you are running a 240 volt 4 prong cord from non-bonded generator to house, and then decide to run an extension cord from the generator to power a sump pump or a tool such as a drill or saw? Do you still need to ground the generator for the extension cord or is the bonded ground at the service panel enough?
So in the scenario where you're connected to a house you can't use an extension cord at the same time because one calls for a floating N and the other doesn't. If there's a fault with the cord- does the current not travel through ground in the bonded service and back through the N to the generator??
At 12:53 you assert that the current has two paths. What’s confusing to me is that I was under the impression that it can only take one path, the path of least resistance? Which is on ground (during fault) back to common back to source through common?
My gen is bonded. I do not have a neutral transfer switch at the panel. I have a MAINS circuit breaker, a MECHANICAL INTERLOCK plate and a GEN circuit breaker at the panel. If I understand your video correctly, when powering my whole house (I had a 30-amp connector installed) I should disconnect the generator's bond jumper and NOT connect it to a grounding rod, right?
All of those three slides look the same to me. It's not clear at all what I should do. Do I connect the ground terminal to the frame? That picture showed a pile of wires and I can't tell what wires went where. I am just trying to use a generator with an extension cord. I am not hooking it to the whole house.
My generator instructions said to connect to a ground rod via the connection on the front of the machine. Using extension cords, I did not hook to the ground rod. The generator only got about 20 hours of use before it stopped generating. Harbor Freight swapped it out for another, and I attached it to a ground rod since, still using extension cords. I don't know cause and effect, and I for sure don't know jack about electricity! Am I potentially charging the grid with a fault through the shared ground rod?
In FL there are many many mobile home parks w a disconnect at the meter and in the load center, also a 4 wire line from disconnect to load panel as the panel in house is a SUB and NEUTRAL and Ground MUST NEVER BE HOOKED TOGETHER. For this I have a 10/3 cord w ground, so 2 hots a neutral and a ground.
Are inverter generators different? It seems that they should be since there is so much more circuitry in between the generator leads and the receptacles.
As an electrician that has dealt with a lot of off-grid systems PV systems with generator backup, proper grounding of the generator system is one of the areas that many PV installers least understand. It is a bit different in that the inverter and generator both feed into the "service entrance" panel where the neutral to ground bond occurs, with the transfer switching often being internal to the inverter. In my opinion, the most important part of generator protection is functional ground fault protection, even if it is the small cord GFCI units that get plugged into the genset outlets when the genset does not have GFCI outlets.
Concur. Oddly, I once had a situation wherein my GFCI breaker on my pool light wasnt protecting swimmers from shocks, and it was happening regularly. The problem was maddening to diagnose, until I found the utility neutral was poorly bonded to ground. This allowed the neutral to stay up to 55 volts from ground when a heavy load (AC) kicked on. The pool light GFCI could not detect this because all the current in the hot wire was returning through the neutral, as it is supposed to, but the neutral itself became a 55 VAC hot line, which in turn made the pool water electrified with a current passing through it which was being supplied by the OTHER leg of the split 240 system, which had nothing to do with the pool light power wiring (it was the 240 VAC AC circuit) which was not GFCI protected. It shocked enough to hurt, but not enough to paralyze/drown or directly kill. 😢 There are still weaknesses in properly-designed electrical systems. Everyone knows about the low level short that doesn't trip the breaker but burns the house down, but few understand that GFCI isn't always perfect unless the full house and utility wiring IS perfect. P.S. My biggest clue was that, when the AC compressor clicked on, some lights in the house got slightly dimmer for a moment, but other lights in the house got slightly brighter in that same moment. Dimming is something most people are used to, but if you ever see brightening, fix the problem right away, because its seriously dangerous for users of bathroom receptacles and kitchen receptacles.
i have a 12k generator and Im plugging it into my house via 50amp inlet box. It's connected to the breaker box with a 50 amp breaker. The generator is unbonded. Do I need to ground the generator also? I do not have a transfer switch, its just wired straight to the breaker box using a 50amp breaker.
@ 14:01 - the neutrals are switched, but not the ground, you're still connected to the house ground, and ground rod. Why do you need an additional ground rod when you're already connected to a ground rod? I realize code may require it, I'm trying to understand WHY though. Thank you, very good presentation.
At 12:50, So if using a bonded generator with a transfer switch, that is not a neutral transfer switch, with now having two paths, what would be the consequences? I know that in this situation the generator should be a floating neutral generator setup, but what if it is a bonded neutral generator, what are the potential consequences?
I’m just a guy with a floating neutral inverter generator that wants to run a couple of extension cords into the house during a power outage. Do I need a ground rod? Thanks!
Your diagrams showing a transfer switch indicate a ground from the case of the switch to the home's grounding rod through the service connection's housing and a ground connection from the generator to the case of the transfer switch. Wouldn't this provide a ground regardless of a secondary ground rod directly off the generator, regardless of switch type?
Still trying to sort this out. Looking at generators now to power my high efficiency furnace in the winter if power goes out. My neutral is bonded with my ground inside my breaker box.
Unbounded generator. Tied neutral transfer switch. With the shore power unplugged how would the fault clear? Because it’s highly unlikely to run the generator while you’re still plugged into shore power.
U have a transfer switch with a center off, so no common neutral. Wouldn’t it be easier to just connect all neutrals together in the transfer switch than having to drive a ground rod and bind the generator?
15:20 it still shares the neutral through the ground if your panel box is bonded. Which many are. That said, wouldnt the ground rod from the panel box still serve the generator as well? Its all connected, unswitched.
@@MandrewP Typical GFCIs look for the hot and neutral not matching. Doesn't need the ground pin to work. In old homes with 2 prong outlets, it's generally recommended now to replace them with GFCIs even if there's no wire for 3rd pin equipment grounding. A disadvantage of course with no ground pin is less lightning protection.
What if you're using a transfer switch AND extension cords? Should the generator be bonded and/or grounded? Assuming the transfer switch has a continuous neutral. Reason I ask is because only my gas furnace is on a transfer switch. Other stuff I power with just an extension cord.
I have a portable generator that connects to a transfer switch on my breaker panel. The owners manual recommends grounding with 8 AWG wire. I clamp it to an outside water pipe that runs underground. I need to re-check the generator grounding system. From your video, I may not need a ground wire. My house was built in 2018 and our community has underground service to the house. The generator is a Ford, 9500W/50 Amp continuous. The transfer switch was installed by an electrician. When the generator is in use, the service breaker is off protected by a safety bar and the generator is supplying power to the entire house through the panel's transfer switch. Thanks. I'll double check the manual on grounding requirements. A ground rod may only be needed if running extension cords vice power through the panel.
At 14:43 in your video you say the NEC requires a bonded generator supplying a building through a switched neutral transfer switch to be connected to a ground rod. Isn't it already connected to the grounding electrode system of the building in this configuration? Do you have a reference for the NEC code rules you are referring to?
After getting a new furnace, I had to put a jumper in my generator for it to run. I've since moved, & just got a new hvac system. I'll wire generator back to factory presets before fire my generator up to see if it will work. That furnace brand was Ruud, now I have a Carrier. I think the newer stuff is sensitive with all the safety guardrails
Replacing my 15 year old generator. (In background) On the beach it’s whole life.This one is quieter and more power for the same price I paid 15 yrs ago.Shipping was with no damage.Components look better made than the original. 🤙🏽
I have a generator that comes in via a 2-slot circuit breaker on the bottom of the panel. So you open the breaker out at the service entrance to stop that, then close the generator breaker on the bottom of the panel. am I right in concluding that is effectively a switched neutral? Because the neutral at the service will be disconnected when that breaker is opened?
I have no idea why I watched this other than its 1am and I can't sleep. Thanks for the info. 5 stars
Same here 12:32am 😂😂😂😂
2:15 PM on Thanksgiving Day. Same thing, kinda.... 🙂
Here's my best ground rod story: I set up power for a small concert connected to mains with approx 250 feet of romex. I had a bunch of six foot stainless steel rods, so I drove a couple of them behind the stage and bonded to the ground. The musicians, being accustomed to always hearing a little hum, at first thought their amps were dead because they were so quiet!
Yes ground is really good for guitar amps
Breaker is an over current protection device , that's all . When a short to ground happens , the low resistance ground connection will allow current to flow that will exceed the breaker and cause it to trip . Not talking about arc fault or gfi breakers . All this to say if you extend a hot wire to a ground rod the breaker will trip
That's true for mains and such. But what he's referring to is the RF/EMF harmonics in the device, and were cleaned up by having good grounds. Has nothing to do with current or circuit breakers. @anonymouslyominous33
@@ThinkFreely2012 I think he was clarifying how a breaker works for the overall video and accidentally replied to this sub-comment.
I just put a Faraday cage around the whole band. 😂
Seriously, I've had the most problems from idiots that cut the ground off of their power plug. Sooner or later they find out it's there for a reason. I guess that qualifies as an electrifying performance.
Thank you. I now understand what I didn't fully understand before. I am a Industrial Electrician for 17 years. I've wired up new machinery, ran conduit, installed and programmed PLCs, and was one of our best troubleshooter. The way you explained bonded and floating neutrals just clicked in my head. The path to grounds and neutrals, bonded and unbonded, are what did it.
Thank you again.
Appreciate your honesty, but this is exactly why I DIY almost everything. A lot of the times, I’m gonna know more than the guy in the van and he is still going to charge me 50/hr.
An industrial electrician of 17y whom DOESN’T understand grounding? That makes sense….🙄. How did you get licensed?
Oh that’s right…school = nerds, apprentice = more work. Yay!
I'm a design engineer and love that you mentioned about GROUNDED and GROUNDING and these terms are not interchangeable. Thanks man. I've been telling engineers that for years and these young designers who believe they are. Right now, I believe it very important in what I'm doing as currently I'm working on substations as a relay and control designer. Some here don't get it and I'm shocked at that - no puns intended. Nice that you mention it.
Finally! I've been waiting years for a clear explanation on this topic. You did an excellent job.
this video describes a breaker as behaving like a GFCI, which is unfortunately dangerously inaccurate.
5 f'in' electricians couldn't explain what you did in 4 mins. AND they all quoted me differently. THANK YOU!
He is wrong about the ground rods. Trust electricians not youtubers.
@@tclucke Okay what in specific is he wrong about??
I agree and have witnessed this happen many times. Ask five "professionals" and they will give you their opinion and swear everyone else is wrong. Realtors, home inspectors, electricians, flight instructors, etc.
@@tclucke what was he wrong about, you clown.
Using proper ground rod, in combination with ground fault breakers is my advice for all end users.
Those gfci's saved countless lives.
Exactly. There are so many people using pseudoscience on UA-cam telling people they don't need a grounding rod. Next thing you know they are getting electrocuted by hot skin.
I would disagree at the 8:30 mark... During a ground fault the current can either flow through a short circuit path (i.e. the ground wire back to the generator) or through some dirt (resistance), then through you (more resistance) and finally through the ground rod back to the source. I don't think electricity is going to take this path. Assuming you have a good ground/ short circuit setup, this is why you can place your bare hand on the welding table during the welding process since the path through the table is essentially a short circuit and will choose this over traveling through your hand.
The best explanation of the bonded/floating neutral issue I’ve seen yet. Thank you!!!
Usually I watch these videos and cringe...this video is an amazing video to show EXACTLY what to do..I will def recommend you to anyone who needs any information. Great job and I subbed. Keep up the GREAT work.
I finally understand “bonding” within a system! Thank you for this. I have watched other videos and was only more confused. Seeing the “big picture” system graphics and demonstrations made everything is so clear now. Great work and teaching methodology.
Congratulations. I'm still looking around.
Actually Tony, bonding only ensures everything within a specific area is tied to the same voltage. Often there is a neutral to ground voltage around 3 vac depending on your distance from your supply transformer. If things go horribly wrong and this voltage goes above the level needed to travel thru you, everything that is bonded will also be at the same voltage. I'd definitely look for more answers than this video, I'm sure he means well, bless his heart
@@jeffreystroman2811 took the words out of my mouth. That's why we make the big bucks.
One of the best videos I've seen on this subject
If I am not using a transfer switch, but instead have a 50 amp receptical that connects directly to the house breaker box after an interlock lever is thrown (forcing the main breaker to be turned off before the 50 amp receptacle is turned on and used) can I safely connect the proprietary 50 amp cord from the generator to the 50 amp receptacle to power my house with a non bonded portable generator that is not connected to a ground rod? No transfer switch used in this scenario…
I had an electrician explain this and I didn’t get it at all. Now I do thanks to your great diagrams and easy to understand explanations. Great job. Thank you
FINALLY !!! A guy who knows what he is talking about ! Not some backyard DIY guy who THINKS he is an electrician !!! I’ve been an electrician for 50 years and it gripes me to see people giving wrong and dangerous advice just so they can make a UA-cam video. If you screw up plumbing, you get wet ! If you screw up electricity, you die ! ( no disrespect to plumbers intended).
You could also burn your house down by screwing up electricity.
In Canada the generators I could find were are all bonded neutral but my home transfer switch required an unbounded neutral generator. Champion sent me instructions to unbound the neutral on the generator I purchased but I never understood the ground requirement. Thanks for the great explanation you probably saved me from a shocking experience on a wet and windy evening.
Never understood why portable generators are shipped bonded. It's easy to build a plug to bond at will. Unbonding a bonded generator is more involved. Heck, why not just include a bonding switch on the generator?
I wish my generator manual was more explcit about this. It does state that it's a floating neutral and advises to consult an electrician regarding a ground rod, but it doesn't mention the importance of consulting an electrician regarding the neutral bond.
That MIGHT make sense in the case of a stand-alone generator that is intended to be used for powering something connected to the grid, but for a PORTABLE generator, it would seem that the manufacturer should know that folks are going to use it for RVs and to power worksites, and should issue a similar advisory regarding its floating neutral status.
So should you ground a generator that is powering an RV that has a fuse box inside? I'm confused. 😅
Great video. The diagrams are on point and make this complicated topic easier to understand. At around the 15 minute mark you talk about the reason for having the supplemental ground rod at the generator. Another reason for the supplemental ground rod is because Earth potential at the service ground rod and Earth potential at the generator site would not be the same. Without the generator ground rod he frame of the generator would be lifted to the potential of the service ground rod, and there could be a difference in potential between the frame of the generator and the earth at the generator site, meaning you could get a shock when touching the frame. By adding the supplemental ground rod at the generator, you ensure that the generator frame has the same potential as the earth that you're standing on.
Yes
Great vid! "Generator" is solidly defined as where the electricity originates. For the vast majority, the "generator" is the power supply company (SMUD, P.G.&E., etc), with their 240v lines coming into our homes (United States). They *exclusively* use the physical earth as the ground.
THANK YOU for this video. I have a bonded generator and I thought adding the copper grounding rod was a necessary step for camping. I appreciate your video and how clear you were about everything. Subscribed.
At 1:45, the ground (green) has two paths to earth. The transfer switch is connected to the "incoming service" ground and to the "generator" ground and both are connected to ground rods. So you end up with two paths to earth. At 15:40, you only have one path to ground (earth), from the "generator" to the "transfer switch" to the "incoming service" then earth. Contradicts what you said earlier about having two paths. I'm not an electrician but it's what I see. Great video. Thanks for posting & Best Regards - Mike
Should the generator manual specify the grounding for the unit? So far the Champion Equipment generator manual says to use external grounding. Very confusing
This is an absolutely correct explanation of generator connections. Very well explained.
To be clear, the available fault current from small generators is no where near high enough to quickly trip a breaker magnetically from a fault. It will however, for a longer period of time trip from overcurrent. It is splitting hairs!
FINALLY!!! All these videos on UA-cam explaining bonded versus floating versus hubba habba versus ooga booga, LOL! It's all been Greek up until this point (The one video had a title almost exactly like yours but then when I go to watch it it's just him creating a bonded neutral plug; I mean???). THANK YOU SO MUCH for making a video that's clear to understand and intelligent. Great job! 🎉
Thank you so much for putting this together -- you explained the logic so well. All the best!
Outstanding well done video. I feel this topic needs to be done at multiple technical levels. I have been shocked ( pun intended) how many struggle with this.
Thanks for this! The detailed walk through of various scenarios was very helpful. I'm installing a generator inlet in my house, connected to a sub-panel that's isolates generator from utility service via interlock. I have been struggling to understand the scenario you describe around 11:20, and how to appropriately ground/bond the generator. Now I know. Many thanks!
It's refreshing to see someone cut it straight with the knowledge and understanding of electrical principles.
This is exactly pertinent to what I am working on today. Helpful x 1000. Great explanations. THANK YOU!
Excellent explanation! Thank you for taking the time to share this with the world. ❤
Wow. What a great video and well explained that even a kid can understand it. 👏.
I have wired house and im now a lineman for 15+ yrs. And the graph, pics and explanations are on point brother. I was trying to explained to my neighbor how everything work and im not a teacher. Lol🤪 but im going to show him this.
Thank you :)
Some well grounded advice ... as a homeowner you do not need to be bonded. It's your electrician who should be licensed and bonded.
Lots of valuable info here. Kuddos to you. My only take away is at 7:04 when you show your generator bond jumper. I think you need to slow down and show the bond. There is a lot to look at here and you brushed over it too quickly. Also, when you describe a circuit path, your mouse pointer is flying across your sccreen. I had to slow it all dowwn to catch what you are showing. You have great graphics and know what you are talking about. You have the audience wanting to learn. Your info is valuable. I'd hate for viewers to turn it off because the mouse pointer is flying around. Otherwise, great job. Best description of grounding and bonding.
Thank you. I have tried to explain this to others more than I can count. This is the best explanation I have ever found. Thanks again for putting this one out there.
This video is awesome, being someone who could have been killed by a generator that was run with an improperly wired system I'm here to tell you this all matters. I was using a generator that was wired into a transfer switch that was set up wrong at my mother in law's house and I was getting 120 volts between the generator chassis and the earth! I went to move the generator a little bit in it's little shed to have the exhaust pointing the right way and got shocked really bad. Had I not been wearing safety boots and not wearing rain gear I would very likely be dead.
As others have said, I never quite understood these bonding issues before. I do now. Thanks!
USE A GROUNDING SOURCE ON ALL GENERATORS!!! One thing this guy did not mention in his video was Inductive Voltage (Stray Voltage) that comes from Motors. If your using a Floating Neutral Generator were the Motor is grounded back to the Generator but the Generator itself is not bonded to Earth Ground, there is the possibility of the Inductive Voltage accumulating in the Frame of the Generator even-though the Generator is NOT Grounded to the Frame (because it will act as a Capacitor), and if that Voltage builds up high enough and someone touches the frame of the Generator especially with a can of Gasoline in their hand, well all it takes is a spark to end bad. If the Generator doesn't have a Ground screw, add one to it, or Permanently add a wire to it with a clamp on the end so it's there to remind you to Ground it to something (Outside AC Condensing unit, a Light Pole, etc).
You just answered my question I bought a 165 kw gen mounted it on a trailer built a pannel to run some RVs or my house. There's the hard ground wire under it I was going to drive a ground rod were we camp on our land and hook to it . Or when at my house can clamp onto ground rod at pole by my transfer switch
Yeah, that was the whole reason. I was watching this video because on my generator they tell me I should Have an earth ground with a copper rod. So this guy didn't help me either. You helped me. I just wanted to know why I had to use a copper rod with my generator and he never explained it. Thank you, sir.😊
Hi bradw.5991, you mention ALL GENERATORS, but go on to speak only of floating neutral generators. What is the case with a bonded neutral generator? surely no inductive voltage can accumulate as the casing is bonded to the source point of the generator, thus mitigating the risk of shock?
@@jamesdamien121 Please list the Model and Model number of the Portable Generator that we are talking about in these comments that has a Bonded Neutral. I would be very interested to know of the one you are questioning about. As far as your Bonded neutral Generators, most of those are Permanent Fixture appliances and are governed by the Codes in the NEC for proper grounding. The problem with the 'older' Portable Bonded Neutral Generators was the same issue talked about here. The Generator frame was never Grounded, but since the Frame and the Neural are now connected, the risk for electric shock was even greater. Remember, in a Electrical Fault the Power from the Hot lead doesn't want to go to Ground, it wants to go back to the other side of its source (either the other Hot 240VAC circuit or Neutral (center tap) 120VAC circuit), but it uses the ground as a conductor. If the Bonded Neutral Generator Frame is not grounded, the Fault cannot travel thru the ground back to the Frame to its power source (neutral). If you were to touch the Frame during this Fault and you were grounded to the ground say bare foot, you wouldn't have a good day.
@@bradw.5991 My TroyBuilt 5550 Watt portable generator is bonded. Model / Modelo 01919-1. The manual states the following. "The system ground is connected
to the AC neutral wire (see “Equipment Description”,
earlier in this manual)."
thank you i now have to rewire my own breaker panel🙃 and pull the ground rod for Geny. been installing new panels for years but only have done 3 geny breaker interlocks.i have to go back and fix and educate my clients about there Genys. you have saved me time and death for my clients. i wish you had more likes because this can save lives❤thanks for a great and informative video
Please consult with your local licensed electrician before implementing any changes. This is for entertainment purposes only. Thank you for watching!
You shouldn’t be doing this kind of stuff for “clients” unless you are 100% sure you know what you are doing. So many houses burn down because of hacks doing electrical work.
Fantastic visuals I've heard people talk about thisbut without visuals I wasnt getting it. Awesome video!
Thank you for this video. I now have a better understanding. I don't need to ground my portable generator with extension cords. I just need to bond the neutral and ground. How about an external GFCI breaker in line with the extension cord?
One thing to advise is that the generator breakers and generator receptacles he is referencing are GFCI breakers or GFCI receptacles. They the GFCI breakers and receptacles, use the Hot and Neutral for monitoring the circuit. A normal AC breaker in your house does not use the neutral for its monitoring. It senses current in the circuit only.
One of the most helpful videos I've ever watched. Thank you!
I agree
Thank you for this! It prompted me to look at the generator setup I am considering. Without your video, I would have installed a ground rod on a bonded generator using a transfer switch that does not disconnect neutral. Instead, I looked at the generator's manual. It does not show how to un-bond and says to use a grounding rod. A quick call to the manufacturer confirmed how to un-bond.
This has to be the most concise explanation I've ever found on this topic. I spent years wading through the unnecessarily complicated jargon, like the term "grounded conductor". I'm also glad to see you spoke to the topic of how some switches also switch the neutral. Ignorantly, I thought a switched neutral would protect linemen better from homeowners who switch on their generator when power fails. A switched neutral REQUIRES the generator to be correctly bonded, otherwise the fault voltage still appears on the neutral wire at the pole, with a very high resistance path back to generator.
Awsome explanation
please correct me if I'm incorrect. I understood that current flows FROM the negative thru the circuit and returns to the Positive side...
Thank you for a very useful video.
I'm on the cusp of getting a generator for those potential moments of temporary power blackouts forecast this winter. Like nearly all recent houses we have no alternative methods of heating other than gas central heating. I'd been thinking of going the whole hog and installing transfer switching but then counted all I really need are very few appliances, lighting, fridge, microwave etc. and all can be connected using a neat setup of extension leads.
For heating -- I'd considered it no problem for the gas boiler to be powered off an extension lead too as the load from controls and pumps is less than 500W - but I'd been bothered about grounding. You have underlined the detailed care needed as the boiler, gas and water piping are all permanently bonded to earth throughout the house. Faucets, radiators, showers, sinks, towel rails, the works.
Thanks for letting me better understand there exists a real problem here.
This is a great Video, it will help a lot of people that has a Ford lightning pick up truck.
It will until it catches on fire! 😂
Right on ! EVs are so dumb and dangerous. Everyone knows gasoline never catches fire !
In Finland you need to switch the neutral also, so that the incoming neutral doesn't become hot in case of a fault on the incoming and there are linesmen working on it
😮 in Canada … we have safety laws … but I don’t think we have *that* one. After watching this, I’m educated-guessing that my generator isn’t bonded, and without neutral switching. 😳 the transfer box disconnects the live wires, oooooo, I had never thought about a fault dumping voltage into the wrong wire, and feeding the neural. 😱
I sincerely hope there is a circuit-breaker, or fuse, somewhere to prevent that. 🥺 inside the generator.
I don’t know enough about where bonded/neural-switching wound be required, by Building Code, but I’m guessing it’s defined by wattage, like >10kW must get the extra safety features. … below that, yeah, I think we rely on fuses or breakers. 😳
Finland won't be populated by Finns soon because Finland is too woke..
The way I understand it is, you could have a fault on the neutral, but if it can't complete a circuit through the transformer windings, it can't energize the transformer to become a risk. It has to flow through the center tap, and back through the other half of the winding, but the transfer switch prevents the completion of the circuit. Unless it failed or is shorted across the switch, there shouldn't be a problem. Even then, the entire switch would likely have failed, so an extra switching point wouldn't gain anything.
In Australia, breakers are combined overload breakers & earth leakage detectors. They will trip if more than the rated current is drawn through them. As well as if there is an imbalance of more than 30 milliamperes between active & neutral or more than 30 milliamperes is flowing in the earth wire. (In AU household circuits only have one active at 240 volts). They breakers are called Safety Switches because they will protect a person from electrocution if they are in contact with active & a ground path (Eg a water pipe or standing on wet concrete) and have high enough resistance so too little current flows to trip the breaker but there is enough current to cause cardiac arrest. (Provided this explanation in case safety switches are not used in US.)
Now the thing is when a generator is connected to a house via a transfer switch, the safety switch imbalance system cannot detect an active to earth or an A & N imbalance fault because the generator is a floating source & there is no reference to earth.
To overcome this issue, there is another type of breaker called a Residual Voltage Detector. This unit can be used in conjunction with a safety switch to cut off the electricity from a power source with a floating Active, Neutral & Earth. This bypasses the issue of generators needing bonding in some installations but not others for both overload & electrocution faults to be detected by safety switches.
A link for more info if interested in how it works. Note they are mainly used in the mining & construction industries for worker safety.
powersafe.net.au/rcd-duo/
Finally, I find one comment that sets it right regarding breakers tripping and how grounding and what we call here in the US, GFCI's (Ground fault circuit interrupters). Thanks for the good safety info, Mark!
in the case of 11:53, what happens when the power is restored to the main panel while the generator is running (transfer switch is in the generator feed position and neutral is shared and bonded only at the main panel)? Just asking in regards to the neutral since it will be shared while both generator and main is energized.
Great video…thank you for taking the time to post. Cleared up my questions nicely.
Thank you for that. Going to pop my main panel cover off and verify I am good. Then watch the video again, after wiping the blood from my ears from trying to comprehend all of this. But thank you for you patient explanation.
Amazing video! I'm a Licensed Electrician and the generator bonding didn't actually make sense to me .. this helped a ton! Thank you!
Wow, that's scary, being an electrician and not understanding bonding. Stay away from my house!
Question. I have a Genmax 10500 floating neutral generator. When I try to use the generator as a standalone unit the GFCI plugs on the generator always trip when i plug anything 3 prong into it. Even if I use a neutral bonding plug in one of the gfci outlets. In fact, the bonding plug TRIGGERS the GFCI to trip. Apparently in past iterations Genmax included a l14-30p neutral bonding plug to remedy the issue, but they have now omitted it in the accessory box to make room to give customers a quart of oil instead.
How do I solve this problem? I do not know which prongs on a l14-30p plug are neutral and ground so I am not certain how to make one myself...
If you have a inverter generator connected to a manual transfer switch in a sub panel, and certain sensitive electronics like a furnace will not run because you have a floating neutral generator, does that mean that the ground for the house has been disconnected while using the transfer switch. And if that is true, then should the generator be bonded and grounded with a separate grounding rod? Thank You.
Funny story, way, way, before the internet was even in place or possibly before it was invented. I used a gas generator/welder at our sawmill. I did well when it was dry outside. When it was wet or even real damp, not so well, because I was the ground when welding in those conditions!! lol So I learned in a hurry to not be the ground! lol It has served me well!! lol I also learned to touch things that "might" be hot with the back of my hand, you electricians will know what I`m talking about. Ah, the good old days! Take care
What about a dc to ac inverter with a floating ground?? What do I have to keep my 'eye open' for?
Very good, I got a question mab u can help. I have 400 amp service it goes to an sub panel ,
off 1 of the main panels I have my well pump I added a room on the house use 1 circuit for that room
I put in a GFIC in because it is a concert floor. Don’t know y but ever so often it will trip the gfic,
It is all on the same ground rod, y will it trip the gfic?
Well Done. Very well explained for a basic understanding of Bonded vs Floating Portable Generators.
Great vid! Best explanations I've come across on neutral floating vs bonded neutral generators.
Very informative. I have bookmarked your website as a primary reference for me going forward.
Finally, an excellently explained video for generators and grounding and bonding. You were correct in your examples. Here is the weird one for you. Connecting an inverter, floating neutral, generator to an RV. First thing, the panel in the RV is a sub panel. No bonding neutral to ground.
So, the generator needs the bonding jumper. Southwire makes a plug that you insert into the receptacle that has an internal conductor grommet N-G.
the ground rod is not needed for an RV because nothing is touching the "earth ground." The tires insulate the vehicle from lightning. Basically don't put your generator or inverter on the physical earth. An important fact is ground rods are for buildings that are attached to the earth not for RV's because they are not attached to the earth. Make sure to raise your leveling jacks or put wood under the feet :)
@@uhjyuff2095 Thanks for clarifying as I was wondering about the steel leveling jacks. As far as steel belted tires I'm certain the steel belts are in the tread only so the steel is insulated by rubber on tread and none in the sidewalls anyways.
@@michaeldepastene1510 ground/earth tires are made of rubber, they stuff was one of the first wire cable insulations used, so any tires, in good service, none of the in side handing out, would be the same putting hole RV, on one big rubber floor-mat?
@@michaeldepastene1510 I have often heard that tires have enough carbon black in them to make them conductive.
@@jefffrayer8238 when I was 12, my mom was driving me back home from an outing & just as we were driving over a bunch of railroad tracks a lightening bolt came down about 5 feet from our car, hit the tracks, & that launched our car about 3 feet into the air. Had tires been electrically conductive, that lightning would have hit the car since the car was higher than the tracks. But it didn't.
My neutral bus and ground bus are connected in my circuit breaker panel. I see the grounding block and I have continuity just triple checking that since I have my system bonded at this point and not further up in the co-op, that my generator should be floating when used in this set up with a simple interlock switch.
what is the orange box in the bottom of you diagram? is that the main breaker box? if it is then the grounded will complete the circuit thru the main and back thru neutral ... you do not need the ground from the generator to the transfer switch ... the white box represent the main lines from the eclectic grid
In the bonded generator case with a switched neutral transfer switch isn't the generator ground still connected to the house ground via the transfer switch? That is what the diagram shows. Is that not the case, or if so why does the generator still need its own grounding rod?
What if you are running a 240 volt 4 prong cord from non-bonded generator to house, and then decide to run an extension cord from the generator to power a sump pump or a tool such as a drill or saw? Do you still need to ground the generator for the extension cord or is the bonded ground at the service panel enough?
So in the scenario where you're connected to a house you can't use an extension cord at the same time because one calls for a floating N and the other doesn't. If there's a fault with the cord- does the current not travel through ground in the bonded service and back through the N to the generator??
At 12:53 you assert that the current has two paths. What’s confusing to me is that I was under the impression that it can only take one path, the path of least resistance? Which is on ground (during fault) back to common back to source through common?
Excellent job of explaining this!
Thank you kindly
My gen is bonded. I do not have a neutral transfer switch at the panel. I have a MAINS circuit breaker, a MECHANICAL INTERLOCK plate and a GEN circuit breaker at the panel. If I understand your video correctly, when powering my whole house (I had a 30-amp connector installed) I should disconnect the generator's bond jumper and NOT connect it to a grounding rod, right?
All of those three slides look the same to me. It's not clear at all what I should do. Do I connect the ground terminal to the frame? That picture showed a pile of wires and I can't tell what wires went where. I am just trying to use a generator with an extension cord. I am not hooking it to the whole house.
My generator instructions said to connect to a ground rod via the connection on the front of the machine.
Using extension cords, I did not hook to the ground rod.
The generator only got about 20 hours of use before it stopped generating.
Harbor Freight swapped it out for another, and I attached it to a ground rod since, still using extension cords.
I don't know cause and effect, and I for sure don't know jack about electricity!
Am I potentially charging the grid with a fault through the shared ground rod?
In FL there are many many mobile home parks w a disconnect at the meter and in the load center,
also a 4 wire line from disconnect to load panel as the panel in house is a SUB and NEUTRAL and Ground MUST NEVER BE HOOKED TOGETHER. For this I have a 10/3 cord w ground, so 2 hots a neutral and a ground.
Are inverter generators different? It seems that they should be since there is so much more circuitry in between the generator leads and the receptacles.
As an electrician that has dealt with a lot of off-grid systems PV systems with generator backup, proper grounding of the generator system is one of the areas that many PV installers least understand. It is a bit different in that the inverter and generator both feed into the "service entrance" panel where the neutral to ground bond occurs, with the transfer switching often being internal to the inverter. In my opinion, the most important part of generator protection is functional ground fault protection, even if it is the small cord GFCI units that get plugged into the genset outlets when the genset does not have GFCI outlets.
Huh?
Concur.
Oddly, I once had a situation wherein my GFCI breaker on my pool light wasnt protecting swimmers from shocks, and it was happening regularly. The problem was maddening to diagnose, until I found the utility neutral was poorly bonded to ground. This allowed the neutral to stay up to 55 volts from ground when a heavy load (AC) kicked on. The pool light GFCI could not detect this because all the current in the hot wire was returning through the neutral, as it is supposed to, but the neutral itself became a 55 VAC hot line, which in turn made the pool water electrified with a current passing through it which was being supplied by the OTHER leg of the split 240 system, which had nothing to do with the pool light power wiring (it was the 240 VAC AC circuit) which was not GFCI protected.
It shocked enough to hurt, but not enough to paralyze/drown or directly kill. 😢 There are still weaknesses in properly-designed electrical systems. Everyone knows about the low level short that doesn't trip the breaker but burns the house down, but few understand that GFCI isn't always perfect unless the full house and utility wiring IS perfect.
P.S. My biggest clue was that, when the AC compressor clicked on, some lights in the house got slightly dimmer for a moment, but other lights in the house got slightly brighter in that same moment. Dimming is something most people are used to, but if you ever see brightening, fix the problem right away, because its seriously dangerous for users of bathroom receptacles and kitchen receptacles.
Excellent explanation Only thing missing _ ground to neutral adapter. Costs a few $ & no jumper wires!
i have a 12k generator and Im plugging it into my house via 50amp inlet box. It's connected to the breaker box with a 50 amp breaker. The generator is unbonded. Do I need to ground the generator also? I do not have a transfer switch, its just wired straight to the breaker box using a 50amp breaker.
@ 14:01 - the neutrals are switched, but not the ground, you're still connected to the house ground, and ground rod. Why do you need an additional ground rod when you're already connected to a ground rod? I realize code may require it, I'm trying to understand WHY though. Thank you, very good presentation.
Good description. Thanks for all of your layout from Northern Ontario.
Hello should we connect Neutral and ground together ?
Incase i use 3 phase , so if the neutral is cutting off what happened to the device ?
At 12:50, So if using a bonded generator with a transfer switch, that is not a neutral transfer switch, with now having two paths, what would be the consequences?
I know that in this situation the generator should be a floating neutral generator setup, but what if it is a bonded neutral generator, what are the potential consequences?
I’m just a guy with a floating neutral inverter generator that wants to run a couple of extension cords into the house during a power outage. Do I need a ground rod? Thanks!
Helpful and well said. Thanks! BTW your superthanks thing doesn't seem to work
Your diagrams showing a transfer switch indicate a ground from the case of the switch to the home's grounding rod through the service connection's housing and a ground connection from the generator to the case of the transfer switch. Wouldn't this provide a ground regardless of a secondary ground rod directly off the generator, regardless of switch type?
Still trying to sort this out. Looking at generators now to power my high efficiency furnace in the winter if power goes out. My neutral is bonded with my ground inside my breaker box.
you just helped me to solve the problem, how to power up furnace from generator on off grid setting. Thank you
Unbounded generator. Tied neutral transfer switch. With the shore power unplugged how would the fault clear? Because it’s highly unlikely to run the generator while you’re still plugged into shore power.
U have a transfer switch with a center off, so no common neutral. Wouldn’t it be easier to just connect all neutrals together in the transfer switch than having to drive a ground rod and bind the generator?
15:20 it still shares the neutral through the ground if your panel box is bonded. Which many are.
That said, wouldnt the ground rod from the panel box still serve the generator as well? Its all connected, unswitched.
Your video was awesome and it really cleared all my questions up!
What about a generator w/ 120V GFCI outlets? My manual says the GFCI will not protect you unless using a grounding rod.
That's bull - unless some weird GFCI is being used which I seriously doubt.
@@MandrewP Typical GFCIs look for the hot and neutral not matching. Doesn't need the ground pin to work.
In old homes with 2 prong outlets, it's generally recommended now to replace them with GFCIs even if there's no wire for 3rd pin equipment grounding.
A disadvantage of course with no ground pin is less lightning protection.
Thank you for your clear demonstrations and concise explanations.
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What if you're using a transfer switch AND extension cords? Should the generator be bonded and/or grounded? Assuming the transfer switch has a continuous neutral. Reason I ask is because only my gas furnace is on a transfer switch. Other stuff I power with just an extension cord.
This is exactly the question I have too. Thinking of using the same setup.
I just put in a wall plug and now I can unplug and plug into extension cords and no problem
Making it simpler for wife 😊
I shut off the main breaker and back feed the main breaker box thru a 220 outlet, so everything is bonded.
I have a portable generator that connects to a transfer switch on my breaker panel. The owners manual recommends grounding with 8 AWG wire. I clamp it to an outside water pipe that runs underground. I need to re-check the generator grounding system. From your video, I may not need a ground wire. My house was built in 2018 and our community has underground service to the house. The generator is a Ford, 9500W/50 Amp continuous. The transfer switch was installed by an electrician. When the generator is in use, the service breaker is off protected by a safety bar and the generator is supplying power to the entire house through the panel's transfer switch. Thanks. I'll double check the manual on grounding requirements. A ground rod may only be needed if running extension cords vice power through the panel.
I'm still lost!!! Too technical for me. How about using a gen with an extension cord to directly power my furnace when power outage?
At 14:43 in your video you say the NEC requires a bonded generator supplying a building through a switched neutral transfer switch to be connected to a ground rod. Isn't it already connected to the grounding electrode system of the building in this configuration? Do you have a reference for the NEC code rules you are referring to?
After getting a new furnace, I had to put a jumper in my generator for it to run. I've since moved, & just got a new hvac system. I'll wire generator back to factory presets before fire my generator up to see if it will work. That furnace brand was Ruud, now I have a Carrier. I think the newer stuff is sensitive with all the safety guardrails
Replacing my 15 year old generator. (In background) On the beach it’s whole life.This one is quieter and more power for the same price I paid 15 yrs ago.Shipping was with no damage.Components look better made than the original. 🤙🏽
I have a generator that comes in via a 2-slot circuit breaker on the bottom of the panel. So you open the breaker out at the service entrance to stop that, then close the generator breaker on the bottom of the panel. am I right in concluding that is effectively a switched neutral? Because the neutral at the service will be disconnected when that breaker is opened?