Awesome tutorial! I have been using the mod for 2 weeks now and you answered several questions and head scratching moments I have had as to why certain things have not worked for me. Well done.
Man this is the best explanation of the tdc because the manual is good but not the way you went through the complete control knob's and the way they work .the tdc is really accurate when used properly,like how you just explained. I hit every thing about 90% of the time .unlike in game the crew together with perks take them hours for one target ridiculous. Thanks for the great footage of the tdc . Happy hunting
I wouldn't be suprised if the game dev offered them a collaboration or even purchase the idea from them for the final game release. It's still technically in beta so fingers crossed
One thing the mod needs, is the option for the manual input fields from the in-game solution to transfer to TDC mod, just like the Stadimeter does anyway if you measure distance and press set. Simply, because the Stadimeter can be really unrealiable (yes, I do know how to use it properly before anyone comments on that). 'Roughing' the distance on the TDC mod panel can be somewhat hard to ace - a few meters wrong will mean a lot when firing from several kilometers away. So, that little addition to the mod, manual input, would be nice. It would also make the map tools still be useful - other than just the angle protractor.
Just remember though that if you keep your gyro angle low, range doesn’t matter. I only ever eyeball the range, I never use the stadimeter (that scope didn’t have one), because I strive to keep the gyro angle within 20° of my bow, so that range is no longer a factor in the solution. The only reason the range setting is on the TDC in the first place, is because the torpedo has to turn, and the torpedo tubes are offset from the optics by about 28 meters. If we were to literally fire torpedoes out of the lens of our periscope, there wouldn’t even be a range dial on the TDC. So no need for accurate range unless your gyro angle is high, especially at close range.
Hamacher great video probably the best explanation yet on the TDC. Since release is around the corner are we able to see another video where you fire on multiple targets so we can get an idea of the flow. The Follow up tracking is where my main focus is. Lets say you fire on 2 targets forward of you and then you turn to fire on a target w/ stern torpedo. Just want to see the motion of resetting and re engaging.
Thanks! I’ve been helping the devs implement their new TDC, which will be more in line with the real device (the mod has several inaccuracies). When it is released, I will probably do another video.
Your German is on point btw! Thx for the tutorial. P. S. Does that compass that's under the rudder gauge come with the TDC mod? If not, where I could get it? (E: I assumed that you're not German yourself but if you are, then your English is on point :D)
Thanks! I’m an American who learned German as a kid. The compass is actually a separate compass mod, but I hope they make it and the TDC part of vanilla! It’s called compass mod in the steam workshop.
You mention how some procedures are historically accurate. But, what isn't historically accurate is having one person (me) represent the whole crew. For that reason inputs should each be a single step. In the real boat as the captain, I may have to say "Set torpedo speed to 40 knots." which will then be relayed by another officer or crewman to the torpedo team who will then set that speed into the torpedo. Asking a single person to do all the work of 24 men definitely needs some shortcuts. I am curious to see how the TDC will operate in the coming release version. I also noticed the range to target does not update though the AoB does. Is this the way it worked IRL or is that a limitation of the mod?
I highly recommend trying the beta version out, it’s currently available for download, you can go in and try the new TDCs out as they currently stand. I’ve been helping the developers out in implementing the devices you see in the beta, and thus far, they’ve done a very good job. It is not perfect, there are elements of the fire control system they have not implemented correctly, and it remains to be seen whether they will keep these elements that way or fix them. And you are correct, typically, the commander, if talking about a submerged shot, or the first watch officer if a surface shot, would be calling the values out. This is how it is implemented in the beta. To answer your question, correct, the S3 computer had an AOB motor that would update the AOB for any change in target bearing caused either by the optics turning, or your own U-boat turning. Range was not updated, in other words, the computer did not work like a position keeper like the US device did, but rather simply was able to update AOB, since the angular change in bearing will always equal angular change in angle on bow. The computer takes advantage of this fact.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thanks for the added information. I think I will not try the Beta. Buggy games turn me off very quickly so I will impatiently wait for a more stable version. Cheers.
Assuming the target data is reasonably correct, it’s best to fire when: 1) the range is under 1000 m 2) the impact angle (top left dial) is near 90 3) the gyro angle (two horizontal side-by-side dials) is anywhere from 340 to 20 degrees, in other words, within 20 degrees of your bow. Torpedoes do indeed turn, and have a gyroscope that keeps them on course. Iirc the mod has them able to turn up to 135 deg. Not quite in line with history (was 90 deg until LuT was introduced), but provides flexibility. The angle they turn (expressed in 360 deg) is called the gyro angle. In practice though, you should be minimizing how much they turn by approaching such that you fire when the target is near your bow/stern. Why? Because the less the torpedo has to turn, the less range as an input matters to the solution. So doing this eliminates inaccurate ranges as a potential source of error.
@@m.hamacher7881 I was thinking "don't click, don't click! You'll lead them astray." For the rest, perfect introduction I'd say. Also, awesome work by the mod developers!
@@m.hamacher7881 You popped up on my recommended UA-cam videos today , so I watched them all. You brought me back to this game. I gave up from sub sims 10 years ago because oh SH5 mod soups that broke often, so I almost forgot everything. Is it possible for you to make video with tdc mod and use of map and stadimeter, for example in situations where you don’t have time to match speed with target.. No one in UA-cam is not even close to your level of knowledge. Every other video uses some kind of automation or map where enemy ships are visible so you can click on them. Thank you so much for this free knowledge!
@@sasasimic75 Makes me very glad to hear that! I have actually never used stadimeter, but I can definitely show some other methods of estimating data. Just keep in mind that range is not very important, if at all, when shooting at low gyros, where the torpedoes don’t turn much. This is typically the only kind of shooting I do in the game, making a simple eyeballed range enough.
@@m.hamacher7881 I know about range, but course and speed, I used stadimeter and map to determine course in sh5. Sub must not be moving for that.. it would be interesting to see how you collect data without having to follow target to determine speed and course, thx for your time and effort!
To keep it simple for people, I suggest 90 since it provides the widest angular target to strike. However there is nuance to that. An impact angle of 90 makes your speed estimate need to be more accurate, giving you more wiggle room on AOB. The opposite is true if you have a smaller impact angle - that allows for more speed error at the expense of AOB error. This is because the speed across the line of sight is less at smaller impact angles, making incremental errors in speed have less effect. So the takeaway “long answer” is, if you are certain of AOB but not so much on speed (say you are already in front and have course but didn’t have enough time to estimate speed accurately), opt for a lower impact angle, say, 50 or 60. This is the reasoning behind the recommendation in the U-boat commander’s handbook of firing at targets at lower AOBs which are fast or for which the range is high or the data otherwise is uncertain.
@@m.hamacher7881 That's a great answer. I was just thinking that there must be an optimum impact angle given all data is known perfectly. I have a feeling that given those conditions the optimum impact angle would not be 90. It probably depends on how you define what is the "best" angle. If the best angle is the one that provides the biggest target than 90 would be the answer. The other best angle may be when the deflection angle is changing the slowest providing a bigger window of time in which to fire your torpedoes. I still need to think about this but I'm glad to get your input. Thanks!
Awesome video, thank you! It would be nice to see more videos where you use tdc in action. How important is to get Angle of bow exactly right, how much small mistake there affect the actual result (it seems pretty easy to make mistakes there) and how would you do it manually? Is there a good way to do it without using map? I'm talking about more complicated situation where degree is not 90.
It would be better is you reduced the game volume so your voice could be heard better. I struggled at times to hear what you said. Good video otherwise.
@@m.hamacher7881 We can, no worries, I heard you loud and clear and I understood everything, thank you so much, you saved me so many head scratches! Keep up the good work!!! Cheers mate! BTW: Your german is amazing! -Coming from someone living in Munich, Germany
Thx for this vid! We appreciate that our mod rised the satisfaction so much. Thats what its for :)
Your mod made me turn from SH3 to Uboat. Wouldn't have bought the game without the mod
It’s one-of-a-kind, a testament to the tech of the time!
Great explanation, thank you so much!
Awesome tutorial! I have been using the mod for 2 weeks now and you answered several questions and head scratching moments I have had as to why certain things have not worked for me. Well done.
Very glad to hear it!
Fantastic video, exactly what I was looking for!
Thank you for sharing you passion. I have learnt heaps
Man this is the best explanation of the tdc because the manual is good but not the way you went through the complete control knob's and the way they work .the tdc is really accurate when used properly,like how you just explained. I hit every thing about 90% of the time .unlike in game the crew together with perks take them hours for one target ridiculous. Thanks for the great footage of the tdc . Happy hunting
Nice tutorial, so detail...this what I looking 👍, thank you
The video is already 4 years old. Would love to see a new video with both TDC types. The C37 and the S2
This mod should be in the base game, this is what sims are made for. Thanks for this video you explained some things that make things clear now.
I wouldn't be suprised if the game dev offered them a collaboration or even purchase the idea from them for the final game release. It's still technically in beta so fingers crossed
One thing the mod needs, is the option for the manual input fields from the in-game solution to transfer to TDC mod, just like the Stadimeter does anyway if you measure distance and press set. Simply, because the Stadimeter can be really unrealiable (yes, I do know how to use it properly before anyone comments on that). 'Roughing' the distance on the TDC mod panel can be somewhat hard to ace - a few meters wrong will mean a lot when firing from several kilometers away.
So, that little addition to the mod, manual input, would be nice. It would also make the map tools still be useful - other than just the angle protractor.
Just remember though that if you keep your gyro angle low, range doesn’t matter. I only ever eyeball the range, I never use the stadimeter (that scope didn’t have one), because I strive to keep the gyro angle within 20° of my bow, so that range is no longer a factor in the solution. The only reason the range setting is on the TDC in the first place, is because the torpedo has to turn, and the torpedo tubes are offset from the optics by about 28 meters. If we were to literally fire torpedoes out of the lens of our periscope, there wouldn’t even be a range dial on the TDC. So no need for accurate range unless your gyro angle is high, especially at close range.
Großartige Erklärung und Demonstration. Cheers
Hamacher great video probably the best explanation yet on the TDC. Since release is around the corner are we able to see another video where you fire on multiple targets so we can get an idea of the flow. The Follow up tracking is where my main focus is. Lets say you fire on 2 targets forward of you and then you turn to fire on a target w/ stern torpedo. Just want to see the motion of resetting and re engaging.
Thanks! I’ve been helping the devs implement their new TDC, which will be more in line with the real device (the mod has several inaccuracies). When it is released, I will probably do another video.
Your German is on point btw! Thx for the tutorial.
P. S. Does that compass that's under the rudder gauge come with the TDC mod? If not, where I could get it?
(E: I assumed that you're not German yourself but if you are, then your English is on point :D)
Thanks! I’m an American who learned German as a kid. The compass is actually a separate compass mod, but I hope they make it and the TDC part of vanilla!
It’s called compass mod in the steam workshop.
What is the AOB when using the aft tube and the sub is pointing other way?
The AOB is always relative to your sight line to the target (the angle between this sight line and the target’s bow).
You mention how some procedures are historically accurate. But, what isn't historically accurate is having one person (me) represent the whole crew. For that reason inputs should each be a single step. In the real boat as the captain, I may have to say "Set torpedo speed to 40 knots." which will then be relayed by another officer or crewman to the torpedo team who will then set that speed into the torpedo. Asking a single person to do all the work of 24 men definitely needs some shortcuts. I am curious to see how the TDC will operate in the coming release version.
I also noticed the range to target does not update though the AoB does. Is this the way it worked IRL or is that a limitation of the mod?
I highly recommend trying the beta version out, it’s currently available for download, you can go in and try the new TDCs out as they currently stand. I’ve been helping the developers out in implementing the devices you see in the beta, and thus far, they’ve done a very good job. It is not perfect, there are elements of the fire control system they have not implemented correctly, and it remains to be seen whether they will keep these elements that way or fix them. And you are correct, typically, the commander, if talking about a submerged shot, or the first watch officer if a surface shot, would be calling the values out. This is how it is implemented in the beta.
To answer your question, correct, the S3 computer had an AOB motor that would update the AOB for any change in target bearing caused either by the optics turning, or your own U-boat turning. Range was not updated, in other words, the computer did not work like a position keeper like the US device did, but rather simply was able to update AOB, since the angular change in bearing will always equal angular change in angle on bow. The computer takes advantage of this fact.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thanks for the added information.
I think I will not try the Beta. Buggy games turn me off very quickly so I will impatiently wait for a more stable version. Cheers.
Hello there.
I am still trying to understand the TDC. How do you know it is time to fire ?
Also, the torpedoes make turns ? Or they just go forward ?
Assuming the target data is reasonably correct, it’s best to fire when:
1) the range is under 1000 m
2) the impact angle (top left dial) is near 90
3) the gyro angle (two horizontal side-by-side dials) is anywhere from 340 to 20 degrees, in other words, within 20 degrees of your bow.
Torpedoes do indeed turn, and have a gyroscope that keeps them on course. Iirc the mod has them able to turn up to 135 deg. Not quite in line with history (was 90 deg until LuT was introduced), but provides flexibility. The angle they turn (expressed in 360 deg) is called the gyro angle.
In practice though, you should be minimizing how much they turn by approaching such that you fire when the target is near your bow/stern. Why? Because the less the torpedo has to turn, the less range as an input matters to the solution. So doing this eliminates inaccurate ranges as a potential source of error.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thank you for your answer
8:10 Starts talking about gyro angle dials (TorpedoKurz), soon after keeps pointing to Angle on the Bow dial (Gegner Lage).
Yeah good point. I often let my cursor kind of wander, as I’m focusing on what I’m talking about.
@@m.hamacher7881 I was thinking "don't click, don't click! You'll lead them astray." For the rest, perfect introduction I'd say. Also, awesome work by the mod developers!
This is -probably- the best UA-cam tdc tutorial, but why dark rainy night on tutorial?
Fair point. Focus of this is just the TDC itself. Check out my “day approach” one for the actual use on a target.
@@m.hamacher7881 You popped up on my recommended UA-cam videos today , so I watched them all. You brought me back to this game. I gave up from sub sims 10 years ago because oh SH5 mod soups that broke often, so I almost forgot everything.
Is it possible for you to make video with tdc mod and use of map and stadimeter, for example in situations where you don’t have time to match speed with target.. No one in UA-cam is not even close to your level of knowledge. Every other video uses some kind of automation or map where enemy ships are visible so you can click on them.
Thank you so much for this free knowledge!
@@sasasimic75 Makes me very glad to hear that! I have actually never used stadimeter, but I can definitely show some other methods of estimating data. Just keep in mind that range is not very important, if at all, when shooting at low gyros, where the torpedoes don’t turn much. This is typically the only kind of shooting I do in the game, making a simple eyeballed range enough.
@@m.hamacher7881 I know about range, but course and speed, I used stadimeter and map to determine course in sh5. Sub must not be moving for that.. it would be interesting to see how you collect data without having to follow target to determine speed and course, thx for your time and effort!
Why do you think impact angle should be as close to 90 degrees as possible?
To keep it simple for people, I suggest 90 since it provides the widest angular target to strike. However there is nuance to that. An impact angle of 90 makes your speed estimate need to be more accurate, giving you more wiggle room on AOB. The opposite is true if you have a smaller impact angle - that allows for more speed error at the expense of AOB error. This is because the speed across the line of sight is less at smaller impact angles, making incremental errors in speed have less effect. So the takeaway “long answer” is, if you are certain of AOB but not so much on speed (say you are already in front and have course but didn’t have enough time to estimate speed accurately), opt for a lower impact angle, say, 50 or 60. This is the reasoning behind the recommendation in the U-boat commander’s handbook of firing at targets at lower AOBs which are fast or for which the range is high or the data otherwise is uncertain.
@@m.hamacher7881 That's a great answer. I was just thinking that there must be an optimum impact angle given all data is known perfectly. I have a feeling that given those conditions the optimum impact angle would not be 90. It probably depends on how you define what is the "best" angle. If the best angle is the one that provides the biggest target than 90 would be the answer. The other best angle may be when the deflection angle is changing the slowest providing a bigger window of time in which to fire your torpedoes. I still need to think about this but I'm glad to get your input. Thanks!
Awesome video, thank you! It would be nice to see more videos where you use tdc in action. How important is to get Angle of bow exactly right, how much small mistake there affect the actual result (it seems pretty easy to make mistakes there) and how would you do it manually? Is there a good way to do it without using map? I'm talking about more complicated situation where degree is not 90.
Thanks! You’re exactly right, I’m going to make a series showing different techniques without using the map or the in-game tools.
@@m.hamacher7881 Is that released yet?
@@PicklePatch will make another this weekend but check my “Day Approach” video using UBOAT - that shows some of these techniques.
Nice review! How do you spell your discord name?
Thanks! Stosstrupp
It would be better is you reduced the game volume so your voice could be heard better. I struggled at times to hear what you said. Good video otherwise.
You're smart.. I'm not... simple as that lol
I can barely hear anything
You can’t hear me speaking?
@@m.hamacher7881 We can, no worries, I heard you loud and clear and I understood everything, thank you so much, you saved me so many head scratches!
Keep up the good work!!!
Cheers mate!
BTW: Your german is amazing!
-Coming from someone living in Munich, Germany