St Louis sure has quite a lot of forgotten sports history. Nobody ever talks about the Browns MLB team, how the NBA's Hawks won their only title there, their ABA franchise folded before the merger so that its owners could make a ton of money, the fact that it hosted the 1904 Olympics, or that it was the center of American soccer through like the 60s.
@@whosaidthat84 There’s a UA-cam show called Puppet History and they do a good job at highlighting how big of a shit show the 1904 St. Louis Olympics were. Though they do cover mostly the marathon event, but that’s because that event had the most participation and had the only noteworthy things happen.
Correction: the Football Cardinals NEVER hosted a playoff game in their history: in 1982, the game was hosted by Green Bay, which was the first playoff game the Packers won since Super Bowl 2, and the only game they won (and the only postseason they appeared in) until 1993. The packers for 20 odd years were horrendous
@@bigpasty1582 the Packers technically won the nfc central again in 1982 except there weren't officially divisions in 1982 due to the strike but that was their only other playoff appearance 1968-1992 the Packers came close to winning the nfc central in 1978 and 1989 finishing 8-7-1 and 10-6 in the respective years but missed the playoffs both seasons on tiebreakers
One of my favorite moments from the Rams move was the Bidwells of all people trying to say the rams were moving for “the wrong reasons” and Jerry Jones immediately calling them on it “Oh so when you moved it wasn’t about the money? It was about the money”
it was also about the lack of fan support the cardinals weren't drawing well and bidwill thought he could get more fan support in phoenix so he moved people never tell the whole story only what they want to tell
After all that pain of the Rams leaving, I can finally look back and be happy we had 99-03. Some great teams. Some great players. Fortunate enough to see a few games at the Dome. The baseball team is competitive EVERY year and the Blues have been a solid franchise with a Stanley Cup win since the new ownership has taken over. So long NFL.
St. Louis has taken it on the chin plenty of times in their sports history - now nobody cares that they lost the Browns, but they were in some danger of losing the BASEBALL Cards (despite their history) before the Busch family bought them. They lost the Hawks of the NBA to Atlanta, lost the football Cards, the Rams... and in 1983 the St. Louis Blues very nearly moved to Saskatchewan, and when the NHL told them no, their then-owners (the Ralston Purina Company - yes, really!) *intentionally forfeited their entire draft that season.* I'm not making this up, their GM and staff showed up in Montreal prepared to do their jobs, and were forbidden by the owners. Maybe one of the craziest episodes in major sports history in North America.
MikeB, you’re exactly correct. If it hadn’t been for Harry Ornest purchasing the Blues franchise in 1983, they would have folded much like the Oakland Seals/Cleveland Barons franchise did back in the 1970’s. Those were DARK days for us Blues fans. I’ll always be thankful for Harry Ornest! 🙏 He saved the team!!!!
As a Cardinals fan, you are 100% right with ownership being one of the main issues with the team being consistently bad. It's no coincidence once Bill Bidwill gave control to Michael is when the team had more instances of success. While Michael is not the best owner, he is leagues better than his dad and is willing to spend for team success.
@@rstreet5537 Well, during 2008-9 when Michael topk the reigns we went to the Super Bowl. 2013-2016 we had our best stretch of seasons in team history since coming to Arizona. With Kliff (despite 2 bad halfs) had solid seasons. Also Michael was the one behind the current team facility, helped build the team within the Valley with great fan events and volunteer events. He also is why we got a lot of free agents that his dad would have never attempted to get.
Mike has fallen into his fathers ways as of late. We really haven’t been competitive since our 13-3 season with Palmer. Maybe this gigantic Kyler deal with work out, but after 30 years on this earth watching this pitiful team I’m skeptical.
Bill Bidwell did NOT want to win. TV money was all he needed and he did not want to pay good players. The draft picks were not made to build a better team, just a cheap one.
Fun fact: before the Championship Game Era (1933-1969), many NFL teams a. played in baseball stadiums and b. shared the name of that baseball team. The Giants shared the Polo Grounds with the Giants (then played in Yankee Stadium when the New York Baseball Giants moved west). The Steelers were founded as the Pittsburgh Pirates and shared Forbes Field. The Brooklyn Dodgers (team from 1930-1943) played in Ebbets Field. And there were the Cincinnati Reds (1933-34) who played as Crosley Field. Even before that, there were the Detroit Tigers (1921) who played at Navin Field (later renamed Tiger Stadium), the Cleveland Indians (1916-1919/1921-1922, they were the Tigers for 1920) played at League Park, the New York Yankees (1926-29), and the Washington Senators (1921) played at Griffith Stadium. Good thing the NFL got the memo to maybe try to be their own thing and not just be baseball's younger brother :)
In the 1960s many AFL teams played in baseball stadiums too, the Patriots played in Fenway park 1963-1968, the Jets played in polo grounds 1960-1963, and shea stadium 1964-1983, the Oilers moved into astrodome in 1968-1996, the Chiefs played in municipal stadium 1963-1971, the Chargers moved into Jack Murphy stadium in 1967-2016, and the raiders moved into Oakland coliseum in 1966-1981 and 1995-2019 and I'm not sure but I think they played in candlestick park in the early 1960s
Happy for xfl season again the battlehawks showed me how fun it was to have football back in stl I had only went to a few rams games growing up usually pre season vs chiefs
I remember watching when they moved to Arizona. The Packers had to play out there in a couple of games in that desert heat, and you watched players from both teams just wilt in the heat. While they have a domed stadium now, it also has some questionable field turf that has led to some injuries.
@@adub1300 3 members of Seattle's Legion of Boom all suffered injuries there. And no, no one should watch Cardinals games. There's far better things to do in Arizona any given Sunday.
If St. Louis were to ever get another NFL, I would hope it would be an expansion team. Since the last two teams they had moved from other cities before leaving to Arizona and back to L.A., it'd be nice for the Lou to have a team all its own, and one more likely to stick around.
@@kimyona9746 Ha. Grew up with the Greatest Show on Turf. Hate to say it but KC, as good as they, can't really fill me with the same love that I had for those teams.
Only if Snyder isn't associated with the team anymore. The last scumbag owner left, with the team in tow...I doubt they want to bring a new one scumbag owner in lol
I'm just some random guy from Scandinavia has loved this sport since 97 when I first saw a game on tv. I honestly think no other sport comes close. But it is so incredibly weird to me that a team can just move to another city. I get the whole franchise thing and stuff, but it's still weird af... We don't have that here in Europe, so I guess that's why it's so odd.
There are some occasional soccer teams that do it- I think Wimbledon FC moved and became Milton Keyes, but yes it's pretty rare. Crazy that my dad has been through this twice (St. Louis Cardinals to Arizona and St. Louis Rams to L.A)!!!!!!
It all comes down to money with sports. Kroenke knew that he could get a shiny new stadium as well as tap into the massive LA market by moving. Given the fantastic stadium that was built and superbowl success last year, his payout to the city of St. Louis looks like a smart buyout at the moment...I will say this, St. Louis is twice the football city than Los Angeles when the Rams are treading water again someday. The rams and raiders both have come and gone in the past when nobody cares. LA is fools gold. Time will tell...
@@bradbutcher8762 Well said! I was in LA when both teams left and you heard crickets. And it's not like the City of LA had anything to do with their return just Kranky going for the money grab.
Another team that actually did just that was the Baltimore Colts. When rumors began floating around about the team moving to Indianapolis, Indiana years ago, then-owner Robert Irsay, Sr. practically swore up and down that they weren't gonna move. But then they decided to move out under cover of darkness (there's actual footage of commercial moving trucks outside of the Colts' stadium hauling the team's belongings to Indy at night), so everyone went to bed thinking the team was going to stay in Baltimore, only to wake up to a very cruel reality. For many years, until the city was awarded the expansion Baltimore Ravens, the Baltimore fans hated Bob Irsay with a passion
@@bradbutcher8762 there was no social media back in the 90s so it's not like fans could be vocal about it the way they are today. Rams games were being taken over in St Louis by opposing fans once the GSOT ended. LA didn't have a team for 20 years so fans chose other teams to watch, and now that they're in LA those fans are still loyal to their chosen teams. Regardless, they're in LA to stay.
There is "Arizona hot" and then there is St. Louis. Be thankful those in the SW desert have that dry heat. In St Louis they regularly get the triple digit temperatures too, but gawd-aweful humidity accompanies it.
Being from St. Louis, but only being born in 1987, I knew about the Cardinals being there, but I never knew why they left. And I guess being that they never won anything, a lot of older people don’t really talk about them much. With the Rams, they at least won a Super Bowl, and made it to another one. So even if they lost a whole lot afterwards, the people still feel a connection to The Rams.
Hi XolaniDJ! I grew up in STL, born in 1954. The football Cardinals were VERY popular in the mid-70’s when they were a very good team. Don Coryell was coach and Jim Hart was QB. They passed a lot and the offense was called “Air Coryell”. They also won a lot of close games, often in the last 2 minutes and were called the “Cardiac Cardinals”. They won 2 straight NFC East division titles over bitter rivals Dallas and Washington (Philly and NYG weren’t as good in that era, so weren’t as hated). But they never could get past the first playoff round. Later in the ‘70’s, Bidwill fired the popular Coryell and the team went downhill. By the ‘80’s, Bidwill’s constant griping about Busch Stadium being too small and his threats to move turned off the fan base. You’re spot on about the Rams. More recent history, plus they appeared in 2 Super Bowls and won 1. So there was a lotta love for them.
@@OldRustySteele thanks for that insight. When I was a kid, I always wonder why some older people would say stuff like, “the baseball Cardinals”. It’s also weird to see that football was being played in Busch Stadium, even though the Rams did play their first few games there.
@@Xolanidj Yup! We often used the term “the baseball Cardinals” and “the football Cardinals” to differentiate the two. The other two terms used were “the Redbirds” for baseball, and “the Big Red” for football. Some of the sportswriters in the Post-Dispatch called the football team “the Gridbirds”, but I never heard anyone call them that in normal speaking! BTW, my job took me away from STL to Chicago in 1988, right as the football Cardinals moved to Phoenix. I swore I’d never root for them again, so I adopted the Bears as my team. I never got into the Rams that much since I didn’t live there during the Rams tenure, but was happy for my old friends and family when they won the Super Bowl!
100% but fuck Roger Goodell's NFL. He let all of this shit go down and he knew it would go against the league's own rules. He has made the NFL into the greedy shit league it is today.
@@Gage_Brumley 💯 but that will only happen if someone buys the team from Spanos. And even then idk how people would feel about another relocated team moving in when the last two teams were relocations as well.
@@Gage_Brumley Will never happen, and that suggestion seriously needs to die. The Chargers only pay $1 a year in rent, get a massive amount of stadium revenue, and seem set on making it work in LA. You'd be a fool to walk away from that. Also, unlike Stan, Spanos did way more to try to stay in San Diego before exhausting all his options and moving to LA.
The Cardinals are also super dysfunctional when it comes to head coaches. Ken Whisenhunt and Jim Hanifan are tied for the longest tenure in going on 103 years of franchise history at 6 *SIX* seasons. (Jimmy Conzelman also coached 6 years but in 2 separate stints)
The Arizona/Phoenix Cardinals have made a total of 6 playoff appearances from 1988-2021 (‘98, ‘08, ‘09, ‘14, ‘15, and ‘21). Some Copium for Cardinals fans like me: in those 6, they came away with a total of 6 playoff wins (6 more than the team had in St. Louis).
@@danielcorreard3746 lmao yeah they were the “other cardinals”. Wouldn’t be surprised if the team had one of the top 3 lowest attendance rates in the 80’s before moving to tempe
I mean it says something when the team or franchise in general, hasn’t won a title since the end of WWII… as much I like the current regime and QB in K1, can’t help but be skeptical same time
The old LA Rams played their final seasons in SoCal at Anaheim Stadium - a baseball stadium, and my dad and I saw the last game they ever played there, it was ugly on several levels. Because one end zone was around home plate and the other in deep centerfield, there were no good seat.
And the way it was expanded to host the Rams was pretty awful for baseball as well. The fact that they were able to restore it to a quality ballpark after the Rams left was almost a miracle. Though it shows the strength of the original design.
You should talk about the Rams previous owner Georgia Frontiere because what Stan kroenke did to the city of St. Louis with moving the Rams Georgia Frontiere did to Anaheim and Los Angeles 20 years prior with moving the Rams
Yeup. And remember, she flirted with Baltimore before bringing them to her "precious" hometown. Fun fact: Georgia spent most of her life in LA and is buried in Westwood in LA. St Louis bowed to her every demand just to get a football team.
@Gateway Goal Horns you shouldn't have signed that death contract with the top tier clause bullsh!t. Why do you think Baltimore told Georgia to F*** off? The Dome was the WORST stadium by far while it was in use. All those years you neglected to keep up your end of the bargain. It's not up to the city to buy a billionaire a stadium. Trust me, if another city gave her a better deal, she would have bolted out of St Louis.
@Gateway Goal Horns it was never a top tier stadium 😂 All these large scale renovations still wouldn't have made it much better. They still wanted Kroenke and the NFL to pay a huge portion of it. Plus the River Front stadium asked for 300 million from the NFL, when they only give 200 million. Again you should have signed a better deal. Funny thing, Rams and Chargers are both top 10 in attendance in SoFi. Yeah you're gonna point out how it's mostly fans of the other team which is true for certain games, but St Louis is a shrinking city with a shrinking economy. The same 15-20 st louis fans on this video are just extremely vocal about the matter.
@Gateway Goal Horns but you had 15 years to make it top tier and didn't try anything until Stan took over. Georgia waived the clause in 2005 (the 10 year mark) in exchange for 30 million in renovations and a little extra money for her. Why do you think Stan was able to take things into arbitration in 2012 and win? Yea, he wanted out and took every way to get out but Georgia made it too easy for him. And yes he should pay for a stadium himself. All billionaires should. It's not our prerogative. And agree to disagree that the dome was never a top tier stadium, especially in the age of retractable roofs. Hell it didn't even have natural lighting or any sort. Just felt like a soulless basketball Arena.
Stop. Just stop. THE primary reason Georgia moved the team is because LA fans didn't support them. LA fans STILL don't support the team. St. Louis, on the other hand, DID support the team through a Super Bowl title and the worst 5-year stretch in NFL history. So just stop.
Ironically, Quarterback Kurt Warner led the ST. LOUIS Rams to the Super Bowl in 1999 and 2001, and in 2008, he led the CARDINALS to a Super Bowl. Those were the only Super Bowl appearances for a St. Louis team and for the Cardinals!
Still holding on to a little bit of hope for a football team to come back eventually. Hard to see Kroenke go out and actually spend money on his team (which he refused to do IN STL) in LA and end up winning a super bowl. Hopefully the whole Jon Gruden email situation reveals more collusion and dirty business practices which could start new lawsuits.
@@razormc954 yeah STL had crazy number for a xfl game. They were start selling seats in the upper sections of the Dome because they was such a demand. Can’t wait for them to come back.
What does the gruden situation have to do w something that’s completely and entirely unrelated? Jon gruden and Stan Kroenke aren’t even CLOSE to being on the same level. You literally could’ve said “the redskins scandal”. Gruden is so far removed from this topic it might as well be taking place on another planet. What the fuck would Jon gruden emails have to do with Stan kroenkes ownership of the former St. Louis, current la rams? Like actually name 1 single way it equates. I’m honestly curious.
@@richardtherichard26 it’s because there are nearly 1 million emails between owners and coach’s about god knows what. Given what we’ve seen already through some of those emails, wouldn’t surprise me if there was something in there that the NFL wouldn’t want to get out about the whole situation. There definitely is something there about the STL Rams and probably the whole Washington thing. I hope we get to see all those emails and see how corrupt the NFL really is.
The NFL Cardinals had many winning seasons in the 1960s but they always narrowly missed the NFL championship game because they usually had a regular season tie
The closest was 1964. They were 9-3-2. They would start out 3-1-1 on a massive 5 road game stretch caused by the Baseball Cards making the world series. The 1 loss in that span was to the Colts and the the tie was to the Browns. If at home they likely beat the Browns and maybe win against the Colts. That would've gave them a chance at the Championship. Then in 1965, 12th overall(because of how small the league was) in the Draft they selected Joe Namath. Who would choose the AFL over the NFL. Add in Poor Drafting mostly and you get the plight of the 60s Cards.
I’ve got a personal Bidwell story. Bare with me. In 1985, I was an usher for the Baseball Cardinals through the St. Louis Usher Service, and a season ticket holder for the football Cardinals. In order to work baseball, I was required to work some hockey games at least 2 football games. I was unable to sell or even give my tickets away because the team sucked. The 1st game was in September, so the weather was ok. I was stationed in the box seats and I was still able to watch the game. My 2nd game was the Sunday after Thanksgiving. The weather was dreary with temps in the low 40’s and rainy. I was stationed on the private box level. No T.V.,no radio broadcast, no chance to watch the game. I was freezing my ass off, so I got a cup of hot chocolate trying to stay warm. Bidwell walks by and notices I was drinking hot chocolate and proceeded to tear my a new one. Asking me how could I serve the season ticket holders if I’m not paying attention to my job. I reached into my pocket and pulled out my season tickets and told him verbatim “I am a season ticket holder and I say it’s ok for me to have a warm drink.” Having pissed me off I continued.”I tried to give them away, but no one wanted to freeze their asses off and watch your shitty team” The look on his face was priceless, he didn’t know how to react. 10 minutes later, Mr. Heiney, the head of the usher service informed me I was no longer employed by them. I promptly took my hot chocolate and walked straight to my seats. I told my seat neighbors the story and I was given a hero’s welcome and unlimited hot chocolate. BTW, The Big Red lost 38-3.
2:50 - Indeed the only other time this has ever happened, off the top of my head anyways, was when the NBA's Cincinnati Royals moved to Kansas City (and Omaha for 3 years) in 1972; and rather than work out a deal with the baseball Royals, who had existed for 3 years by that point, to share the name in a confusing situation, the basketball Royals instead changed their names to the Kings, which they're still known as today, albeit in Sacramento.
And if we're being fair, the football Cardinals were 2nd class citizens at Busch Stadium. The baseball team got first priority which is why the Cards were forced to switch home games with the Eagles in 1985.
Nice videos. I just watched your video on North Korea. You should talk about the Battle of Santiago. The match that made FIFA come up with the yellow and red cards.
I've been a Cardinals fan for over a decade and had always figured they moved purely to get into a bigger market, not because of the weather; I guess there's an alternate timeline in which the Cardinals became the third Florida team instead of the expansion Jaguars.
And in between the Cards and Rams, you had a near sure thing expansion bid fall apart. The reason why the Jacksonville Jaguars exist (the Carolina Panthers’ bid was a slam dunk and they were obviously getting one of the franchises) is because St. Louis couldn’t get together a single, viable expansion bid and Jacksonville snuck into the league at the last second.
Anyone who’s lived in the area knows that the rams weren’t even trying to build a competitive team the last few years they were in STL. They hired Jeff fisher so he could make the transition to a new city easier for the team. It’s also very strange how they all of a sudden became relevant and year or two after leaving.
Yep, Fisher was hired for the same reason he was with the Oilers/Titans, to move them :( and what perfect revenge he gets after losing to stl in the superbowl to move them to La lol though I do have to admit he was an upgrade over the previous coaches we had (Linehan,Spagnolo,Josh Mcdaniels lol)
As an LA Rams fan, it is absolutely true that he made the team bad just to move 😂. But he always put out a team that was just on the verge of being good, hence all the 7-9 seasons.
@@whosaidthat84 exactly which is actually even worse then just being bad because of then you don't get a good draft pick (you do have to give him and les Snead credit for drafting Aaron Donald and Todd Gurley)
@@emoo.182 that's true to a degree but you can typically find top talent outside the top 5. As you pointed with AD99 and TG30, Snead is one of the best at finding talent all across the board.
Bidwell wanted a new stadium. The county agreed to build him one, then the city sued the county. Bidwell then took the Cardinals to Arizona. Also the football Cardinals were tenants to the baseball Cardinals. On the other hand, Kronke had his own stadium, but wanted another, the city was prepared to build him another, he left anyway.
Northern Cardinals (the bird) are rare in Arizona. I mean, they can live there, but you'd be hard pressed to find them. Also, I guess once the baseball team gave permission to use their name it was a done deal. I'm surprised city leaders didn't fight harder to get the name back much like Cleveland did for the Browns name just out of spite if for anything else.
If anyone had been paying attention to reporting about the Rams lawsuit, you invariably hear about the Cardinals exit. The fact is that both situations had similarities (both were relocated teams with terrible owners) but the situations themselves were completely different. Bidwill wanted to stay but wasn't able to get things done; Stan LIED. A great authority on both situations is Howard Balzer, so please check out the interviews on the subject he did. #KroenkeOut
You are correct. I totally blamed Vince Schoemel and Gene McNary. Look up those names and you will learn exactly why the Cardinals left STL. What a cluster.
I don’t know if there’s a more-forgettable long-term run for an NFL franchise than the St Louis Cardinals. At least in Chicago they won two championships. At least in Arizona they made a Super Bowl. In St Louis they weren’t even entertainingly bad-they were just below average almost every season.
Have to disagree a little. My memories were of a team that was JUST good enough to not finish last, thereby giving them a high draft pick. But the Big Red would have messed that up anyway, given their history.
st louis supported the rams win or lose the rams drew great crowds and the ram still moved there should be rules in place to protect the fans from that kind of greedy move the rule should state that any team whose stadium is 3 quarters full or more they shouldn't be allowed to move if their stadium is less then half full then they can move fans shouldn't have to pay the price because owners are greedy
I’m from stl so i hat stan it’s not like stl was a bad market fans were extremely loyal especially after the greatest show on turf and la already has like 10 teams they didn’t really need another
They then got screwed over AGAIN in the 1995 expansion when the NFL decided to pick Jacksonville to host a new team over the much more appealing St. Louis Stallions. What could have been.
Imagine if the New England Patriots actually became the St. Louis Stallions instead of Robert Kraft engaging in a hostile takeover to keep the Patriots in New England… Perhaps St. Louis would be the team with 6 Super Bowls in 2 decades.
A good video would be the late Saints owner Tom Benson playing "give me what I want or I'll leave New Orleans" before and after Hurricane Katrina. Had Goodell been commissioner instead of Paul Tagliabue, I think that Benson would have gotten his wish.
2 World Series wins and a Stanley Cup is a lot more than most city's of similar size can say. And technically the STL Rams won the Super Bowl in 2000. I know what you meant though.
Remember when there was a going to be a St. Louis fan protest against Kronke in the XFL game between the BattleHawks and the LA Wildcats? Of course, it wouldn't have proved anything since Stan has nothing to do with the XFL, but then COVID kept the game from ever happening. Oh, what might have been, though...
You mentioned attendance between the St. Louis Cardinals teams and baseball drawing the bigger crowd. Here's a fun fact: The Tampa Bay Lightning had average attendance comparable to, and even higher than, their current attendance at Amalie when they played at the Thunderdome (more commonly known today as Tropicana Field). A single game NHL attendance record was set in 1993 when they played the Florida Panthers in their home opener at the stadium. This record was broken a few times by other Lightning games until 1996 when a final NHL single game attendance record was set in the 1996 playoffs when they played the New Jersey Devils. That record stood until the 2014 Winter Classic at Michigan Stadium. 2 things to note, this was in a stadium, not an arena meant for hockey AND before Tampa, St. Petersburg, or any other local team for that matter, had a baseball team to play in the stadium. We all know how the attendance is for Rays games, even when they are in the playoffs. And people try to say that hockey doesn't belong in the south. LOL
Lolol, my Dad's town in Mexico has had its local soccer team win promotion to Div. 1 twice; franchise was sold, rebranded, and moved to another city both times. I know how St. Louis feels
@@jayryan1018 anyone who lives in the city knows that under fisher they weren’t even trying to win games. I’m a Bears fan right across the river. But I sure miss being able to watch nfl football locally. Them leaving was terrible for the city.
it was rocky at first, but in the last 15 years, we've made the Super Bowl, the Championship game, and made the playoffs a handful of times. and now AZ is one of the biggest markets for the NFL, our stadium is always sold out, and the excitement is palatible. especially when the croweds are split 50/50.
The reasons why they moved are shady, but an even weirder story (IMO) is that of the Cleveland Rams. They moved to Los Angeles the year after winning the NFL championship. (The 1962 Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City after winning the AFL championship, thus being the only other pro football team to move the season after winning a championship.)
But the reason the Dallas Texans became the Kansas City Chiefs was actually because of a thrown out case from 1962, and an agreement between the NFL and CBS Sports. Lamar Hunt had to move the Texans because the Cowboys had won the battle for Dallas. That is how we got the Kansas City Chiefs.
I read somewhere because Sun Devil Stadium is on campus, the fans in general seating couldn't even buy beer. Only those in the club suites could get alcohol. If only Dollar Bill held out a little longer, he would've gotten The Dome downtown instead of the Rams.
I remember hearing that the Cardinals only sold out there first home game in Phoenix because a radio station bought a bunch of tickets just before the first game. Then the season ticket sales dropped off big time for their second season there. In my opinion Bidwell was one of the worst owners in the NFL when it came to running the team. I remember reading Neil Lomax's book and he said Bidwell was the kind of person who would look down instead of saying hello if you walked past him.
I grew up near Baltimore, and I remember talk of the Cardinals moving there. One of my teachers had a "Baltimore Cardinals" t-shirt. I heard that it was neck and neck until Arizona won out because of the weather. If the Cardinals had moved to Baltimore then both of Baltimore's teams would have moved from St. Louis. Instead, both of Baltimore's teams were once called the Browns. If the NBA or NHL ever gets a franchise called the Browns then it will only be a matter of time before they move to Baltimore. So saith the sports gods.
It was crazy to see how the MLS vote was totally affected by us being bent over a barrel TWICE. Two propositions were needed to pass in a public vote, and one was rejected. It was SO dumb and massively disappointing, but we have ended up getting an expansion team thank goodness. We are very ready for City SC. We truly don’t need the NFL, especially if the Battlehawks return.
People ignored the fact that Rams moved from LA to St Louis based on Georgia Frontiere simply wanting a team for her hometown after inheriting the team from her husband. City of Anaheim was ready to make a new stadium just for them. LA took back what was rightfully theirs 🤷🏽♂️
At least we got a bit of money back from the PSL lawsuit. And man, if they would have built that Cardinals stadium in St. Louis county....that site is 7 min from me that would have been so damn convenient.
as a resident of STL, i can confirm that, in terms of living there, we are just Detroit copied and pasted into Missouri. And you know what they say, “Cant have shit in Detroit.”
The party line at the time that still grates is that they left for a bigger stadium when they couldn’t fill up the one they had. But the baseball team sure could. When they had a product, they had plenty of support. A pox on the Bidwills and on the Cardinals for as long as they own them. Don’t even get me started on Kroenke, but at least the Rams have a tradition of carpetbagging.
The two NFL franchises that sucked dollars out of St. Louis before leaving were dregs of the league for most of their time there. St. Louis Rams: 147-191-1 in 21 seasons. St. Louis Cardinals: 186-202-14 in 28 seasons.
I kinda feel any time a city builds a stadium for a team, they should hide way way down in the sub-Mouse print of the contract that if the team leaves the city before the stadium build cost is repaid the team forfeits 75% of all TV revenues to the city.
I feel like this actually worked out for St Louis cause they were in the running for an expansion team, lost out on that chance but then the LA Rams decided to move to St Louis maybe cause of their dome, won a Super Bowl so they trump the Cards in that regard BUT STILL...
Went up to STL to check out the eclipse in 2018. Friends went to bed early, I walked to a bar , and before I knew it asked someone “How about the rams” dude thought I was trying to be a smart ass. Can’t say it last per long, but was still awkward, I didn’t realize they just left haha
*stares into the vast infinite well of bitterness and anger left by the NFL and passed from one generation to the next* Yeahhhh…after the Avs, if the Cardinals can actually find some pitching and not waste Arenado or Goldschmidt that would be great.
You know, I almost feel sorry for St. Louis. But then I think to myself, 'Would **YOU** want to live in St.Louis?' and the answer to that question is a great big NOPE. Shit, people in **Detroit** think living in St.Louis sucks dog balls....
Roger Goodell need to get off his righteous horse and do something good for the city of St. Louis. An expansion team with a stipulation attached on wet ink that the team CANNOT be moved anywhere. Either stay or be folded. When AAF came to St. Louis, the fanbase came out in droves to support their Hawks. And please no more domed stadiums!
Guess you could say after being spurned by two NFL franchises, St. Louis has the Blues.
I see what you did there. It was Glori(a)ous.
*YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAH*
Who almost moved to Saskatoon in 1983... if it wasn't for the NHL rejecting the move.
Hey, they’re the last team in St. Louis to win anything lately.
Sir or Ma’am… you may have achieved super legendary dad joke level… and that sir or ma’am is spectacularly awesome… cheers to you!!! 🍻
St Louis sure has quite a lot of forgotten sports history. Nobody ever talks about the Browns MLB team, how the NBA's Hawks won their only title there, their ABA franchise folded before the merger so that its owners could make a ton of money, the fact that it hosted the 1904 Olympics, or that it was the center of American soccer through like the 60s.
And the fact that the St Louis Blues almost relocated to Saskatoon Saskatchewan in 1983
The browns are forgotten it's funny how baltimore stole two browns teams
@@yakamarezlife then they also named the two browns teams they stole after birds.
Yeah this needs to be covered. I'm not from StL but this is interesting stuff!
@@whosaidthat84 There’s a UA-cam show called Puppet History and they do a good job at highlighting how big of a shit show the 1904 St. Louis Olympics were. Though they do cover mostly the marathon event, but that’s because that event had the most participation and had the only noteworthy things happen.
Correction: the Football Cardinals NEVER hosted a playoff game in their history: in 1982, the game was hosted by Green Bay, which was the first playoff game the Packers won since Super Bowl 2, and the only game they won (and the only postseason they appeared in) until 1993. The packers for 20 odd years were horrendous
Fun fact: the city of St. Louis didn't host any NFL playoff games until the Rams destroyed the Vikings in the divisional round in January 2000
You are too quick . I was about to point out the same fact.
Shhh!! don't tell Tom Grossi.
Packers won the central in 1972 but yeah times were tough in GB until Favre came
@@bigpasty1582 the Packers technically won the nfc central again in 1982 except there weren't officially divisions in 1982 due to the strike but that was their only other playoff appearance 1968-1992 the Packers came close to winning the nfc central in 1978 and 1989 finishing 8-7-1 and 10-6 in the respective years but missed the playoffs both seasons on tiebreakers
One of my favorite moments from the Rams move was the Bidwells of all people trying to say the rams were moving for “the wrong reasons” and Jerry Jones immediately calling them on it “Oh so when you moved it wasn’t about the money? It was about the money”
Didn't you watch the video? They moved because of the nice weather. /s
it was also about the lack of fan support the cardinals weren't drawing well and bidwill thought he could get more fan support in phoenix so he moved people never tell the whole story only what they want to tell
@@danielcorreard3746 fan support kind of directly ties into money. More fans buying tickets and merch =more money.
They left because Bidwell wanted a stadium but ironically didn’t get one for over two decades
when Jerry Jones is the voice of reason - you know it's F'ed up.........
After all that pain of the Rams leaving, I can finally look back and be happy we had 99-03. Some great teams. Some great players. Fortunate enough to see a few games at the Dome. The baseball team is competitive EVERY year and the Blues have been a solid franchise with a Stanley Cup win since the new ownership has taken over. So long NFL.
I am wearing my Orlando Pace jersey right now.
@@mongoardath1 he was arguably the biggest piece of the puzzle. Without him...well, I'm sure you remember too.
St. Louis has taken it on the chin plenty of times in their sports history - now nobody cares that they lost the Browns, but they were in some danger of losing the BASEBALL Cards (despite their history) before the Busch family bought them. They lost the Hawks of the NBA to Atlanta, lost the football Cards, the Rams... and in 1983 the St. Louis Blues very nearly moved to Saskatchewan, and when the NHL told them no, their then-owners (the Ralston Purina Company - yes, really!) *intentionally forfeited their entire draft that season.*
I'm not making this up, their GM and staff showed up in Montreal prepared to do their jobs, and were forbidden by the owners. Maybe one of the craziest episodes in major sports history in North America.
Thats insane
The franchise was nearly folded outright, until another guy purchased the franchise.
@@FivePointsVids the owners abandoned the team
remember the old CheckerDome...?
MikeB, you’re exactly correct. If it hadn’t been for Harry Ornest purchasing the Blues franchise in 1983, they would have folded much like the Oakland Seals/Cleveland Barons franchise did back in the 1970’s.
Those were DARK days for us Blues fans. I’ll always be thankful for Harry Ornest! 🙏 He saved the team!!!!
As a Cardinals fan, you are 100% right with ownership being one of the main issues with the team being consistently bad. It's no coincidence once Bill Bidwill gave control to Michael is when the team had more instances of success. While Michael is not the best owner, he is leagues better than his dad and is willing to spend for team success.
How you don't draft well and you don't spend money on free agents?????
@@rstreet5537 Well, during 2008-9 when Michael topk the reigns we went to the Super Bowl. 2013-2016 we had our best stretch of seasons in team history since coming to Arizona. With Kliff (despite 2 bad halfs) had solid seasons. Also Michael was the one behind the current team facility, helped build the team within the Valley with great fan events and volunteer events. He also is why we got a lot of free agents that his dad would have never attempted to get.
Mike has fallen into his fathers ways as of late. We really haven’t been competitive since our 13-3 season with Palmer. Maybe this gigantic Kyler deal with work out, but after 30 years on this earth watching this pitiful team I’m skeptical.
Bill Bidwell did NOT want to win. TV money was all he needed and he did not want to pay good players. The draft picks were not made to build a better team, just a cheap one.
It was worse for everyone else in Missouri, who were stuck with the bill for the empty stadium.
The stadium was already built and planned for before the Rams even decided to go to St Louis.
Perfect reason for taxpayers NOT to fund a sports stadium or arena.
Fun fact: before the Championship Game Era (1933-1969), many NFL teams a. played in baseball stadiums and b. shared the name of that baseball team. The Giants shared the Polo Grounds with the Giants (then played in Yankee Stadium when the New York Baseball Giants moved west). The Steelers were founded as the Pittsburgh Pirates and shared Forbes Field. The Brooklyn Dodgers (team from 1930-1943) played in Ebbets Field. And there were the Cincinnati Reds (1933-34) who played as Crosley Field. Even before that, there were the Detroit Tigers (1921) who played at Navin Field (later renamed Tiger Stadium), the Cleveland Indians (1916-1919/1921-1922, they were the Tigers for 1920) played at League Park, the New York Yankees (1926-29), and the Washington Senators (1921) played at Griffith Stadium. Good thing the NFL got the memo to maybe try to be their own thing and not just be baseball's younger brother :)
That's a lot of typing
@@anthony_rivera4735 That's a lot of useless sports trivia I know way too much about.
Well George Halas wanted to be an *older* brother, hence the name "Bears" to of course baseball's "Cubs"
In the 1960s many AFL teams played in baseball stadiums too, the Patriots played in Fenway park 1963-1968, the Jets played in polo grounds 1960-1963, and shea stadium 1964-1983, the Oilers moved into astrodome in 1968-1996, the Chiefs played in municipal stadium 1963-1971, the Chargers moved into Jack Murphy stadium in 1967-2016, and the raiders moved into Oakland coliseum in 1966-1981 and 1995-2019 and I'm not sure but I think they played in candlestick park in the early 1960s
The Packers also played a couple games a year in Milwaukee at the old County Stadium til the mid 90s.
Happy for xfl season again the battlehawks showed me how fun it was to have football back in stl I had only went to a few rams games growing up usually pre season vs chiefs
Kronke denied St. Louis of a ring this season too with the Avs💀
"Does St. Louis still have a team?"
"No, they moved to Phoenix."
That line aged both poorly and wonderfully.
Ah yes, God himself asked that question, proving he doesn't know everything 😆
Showing that God is a Cardinals fan and even God can't help the team win.
@@ZhangtheGreat however in a later episode Homer gives Flanders a mathematical equation proving God doesn't exist.
I remember watching when they moved to Arizona. The Packers had to play out there in a couple of games in that desert heat, and you watched players from both teams just wilt in the heat. While they have a domed stadium now, it also has some questionable field turf that has led to some injuries.
Are you thinking the Cardinals play on artificial turf or is the turf or are you referring to the grass field?
@@thyuing I'm referring to the grass turf they have in that stadium.
Questionable field? What injuries? Do you even watch cardinals games 😂
@@adub1300 3 members of Seattle's Legion of Boom all suffered injuries there. And no, no one should watch Cardinals games. There's far better things to do in Arizona any given Sunday.
If St. Louis were to ever get another NFL, I would hope it would be an expansion team. Since the last two teams they had moved from other cities before leaving to Arizona and back to L.A., it'd be nice for the Lou to have a team all its own, and one more likely to stick around.
Just be the chiefs fan we all know you are people of St. Louis
@@kimyona9746 Ha. Grew up with the Greatest Show on Turf. Hate to say it but KC, as good as they, can't really fill me with the same love that I had for those teams.
Nah I’m good on the NFL for a good minute… bring the NBA to Seattle and St. Louis EXPEDITOUSLY
Would St. Louis be interested in a lightly-used Washington Football Team?
Only if Snyder isn't associated with the team anymore. The last scumbag owner left, with the team in tow...I doubt they want to bring a new one scumbag owner in lol
I'm just some random guy from Scandinavia has loved this sport since 97 when I first saw a game on tv. I honestly think no other sport comes close. But it is so incredibly weird to me that a team can just move to another city. I get the whole franchise thing and stuff, but it's still weird af... We don't have that here in Europe, so I guess that's why it's so odd.
There are some occasional soccer teams that do it- I think Wimbledon FC moved and became Milton Keyes, but yes it's pretty rare. Crazy that my dad has been through this twice (St. Louis Cardinals to Arizona and St. Louis Rams to L.A)!!!!!!
It all comes down to money with sports. Kroenke knew that he could get a shiny new stadium as well as tap into the massive LA market by moving. Given the fantastic stadium that was built and superbowl success last year, his payout to the city of St. Louis looks like a smart buyout at the moment...I will say this, St. Louis is twice the football city than Los Angeles when the Rams are treading water again someday. The rams and raiders both have come and gone in the past when nobody cares. LA is fools gold. Time will tell...
@@bradbutcher8762 Well said! I was in LA when both teams left and you heard crickets. And it's not like the City of LA had anything to do with their return just Kranky going for the money grab.
Another team that actually did just that was the Baltimore Colts. When rumors began floating around about the team moving to Indianapolis, Indiana years ago, then-owner Robert Irsay, Sr. practically swore up and down that they weren't gonna move. But then they decided to move out under cover of darkness (there's actual footage of commercial moving trucks outside of the Colts' stadium hauling the team's belongings to Indy at night), so everyone went to bed thinking the team was going to stay in Baltimore, only to wake up to a very cruel reality. For many years, until the city was awarded the expansion Baltimore Ravens, the Baltimore fans hated Bob Irsay with a passion
@@bradbutcher8762 there was no social media back in the 90s so it's not like fans could be vocal about it the way they are today. Rams games were being taken over in St Louis by opposing fans once the GSOT ended. LA didn't have a team for 20 years so fans chose other teams to watch, and now that they're in LA those fans are still loyal to their chosen teams. Regardless, they're in LA to stay.
A warmer climate? I live in Phoenix, and it is way too hot here
I’m from Yuma and can confirm. Summers are blazing.
There is "Arizona hot" and then there is St. Louis. Be thankful those in the SW desert have that dry heat. In St Louis they regularly get the triple digit temperatures too, but gawd-aweful humidity accompanies it.
@@louisinjoliet8546 yep, I went to St. Louis a few years ago in August for a wedding. I was sweating like R. Kelly at the Teen Choice Awards
Being from St. Louis, but only being born in 1987, I knew about the Cardinals being there, but I never knew why they left. And I guess being that they never won anything, a lot of older people don’t really talk about them much. With the Rams, they at least won a Super Bowl, and made it to another one. So even if they lost a whole lot afterwards, the people still feel a connection to The Rams.
St. Louis not Jacksonville should have been awarded an expansion team.
Hi XolaniDJ! I grew up in STL, born in 1954. The football Cardinals were VERY popular in the mid-70’s when they were a very good team. Don Coryell was coach and Jim Hart was QB. They passed a lot and the offense was called “Air Coryell”. They also won a lot of close games, often in the last 2 minutes and were called the “Cardiac Cardinals”. They won 2 straight NFC East division titles over bitter rivals Dallas and Washington (Philly and NYG weren’t as good in that era, so weren’t as hated). But they never could get past the first playoff round.
Later in the ‘70’s, Bidwill fired the popular Coryell and the team went downhill. By the ‘80’s, Bidwill’s constant griping about Busch Stadium being too small and his threats to move turned off the fan base.
You’re spot on about the Rams. More recent history, plus they appeared in 2 Super Bowls and won 1. So there was a lotta love for them.
@@OldRustySteele thanks for that insight. When I was a kid, I always wonder why some older people would say stuff like, “the baseball Cardinals”. It’s also weird to see that football was being played in Busch Stadium, even though the Rams did play their first few games there.
@@Xolanidj Yup! We often used the term “the baseball Cardinals” and “the football Cardinals” to differentiate the two. The other two terms used were “the Redbirds” for baseball, and “the Big Red” for football.
Some of the sportswriters in the Post-Dispatch called the football team “the Gridbirds”, but I never heard anyone call them that in normal speaking!
BTW, my job took me away from STL to Chicago in 1988, right as the football Cardinals moved to Phoenix. I swore I’d never root for them again, so I adopted the Bears as my team. I never got into the Rams that much since I didn’t live there during the Rams tenure, but was happy for my old friends and family when they won the Super Bowl!
St. Louis deserves a team. They have top 5 most passionate fanbases in nhl and mlb, and would be so much better than so many nfl cities now
100% but fuck Roger Goodell's NFL. He let all of this shit go down and he knew it would go against the league's own rules. He has made the NFL into the greedy shit league it is today.
You seen how hype they were for the xfl I think st Louis dc and Houston had good crowds
Move the Chargers to St Louis. Imagine how awesome a cross state AFC West rivalry would be.
@@Gage_Brumley 💯 but that will only happen if someone buys the team from Spanos. And even then idk how people would feel about another relocated team moving in when the last two teams were relocations as well.
@@Gage_Brumley Will never happen, and that suggestion seriously needs to die. The Chargers only pay $1 a year in rent, get a massive amount of stadium revenue, and seem set on making it work in LA. You'd be a fool to walk away from that. Also, unlike Stan, Spanos did way more to try to stay in San Diego before exhausting all his options and moving to LA.
How time flies, the Cardinals have been in the Phoenix area longer than they were in St. louis.
The Cardinals are also super dysfunctional when it comes to head coaches. Ken Whisenhunt and Jim Hanifan are tied for the longest tenure in going on 103 years of franchise history at 6 *SIX* seasons. (Jimmy Conzelman also coached 6 years but in 2 separate stints)
The Arizona/Phoenix Cardinals have made a total of 6 playoff appearances from 1988-2021 (‘98, ‘08, ‘09, ‘14, ‘15, and ‘21). Some Copium for Cardinals fans like me: in those 6, they came away with a total of 6 playoff wins (6 more than the team had in St. Louis).
what no one wants to mention is that the cardinals weren't wanted in st louis any more then the cardinals owners wanted to be there
@@danielcorreard3746 lmao yeah they were the “other cardinals”. Wouldn’t be surprised if the team had one of the top 3 lowest attendance rates in the 80’s before moving to tempe
I mean it says something when the team or franchise in general, hasn’t won a title since the end of WWII… as much I like the current regime and QB in K1, can’t help but be skeptical same time
The old LA Rams played their final seasons in SoCal at Anaheim Stadium - a baseball stadium, and my dad and I saw the last game they ever played there, it was ugly on several levels. Because one end zone was around home plate and the other in deep centerfield, there were no good seat.
And the way it was expanded to host the Rams was pretty awful for baseball as well. The fact that they were able to restore it to a quality ballpark after the Rams left was almost a miracle. Though it shows the strength of the original design.
Five, don't forget the NBA screwed the city of St. Louis as well. Possibly the best name for a team: Spirits of St. Louis.
At least the guys that owned the Spirit got paid for YEARS from the NBA tv contracts! Good for them
You should talk about the Rams previous owner Georgia Frontiere because what Stan kroenke did to the city of St. Louis with moving the Rams Georgia Frontiere did to Anaheim and Los Angeles 20 years prior with moving the Rams
Yeup. And remember, she flirted with Baltimore before bringing them to her "precious" hometown. Fun fact: Georgia spent most of her life in LA and is buried in Westwood in LA. St Louis bowed to her every demand just to get a football team.
@Gateway Goal Horns you shouldn't have signed that death contract with the top tier clause bullsh!t. Why do you think Baltimore told Georgia to F*** off? The Dome was the WORST stadium by far while it was in use. All those years you neglected to keep up your end of the bargain. It's not up to the city to buy a billionaire a stadium. Trust me, if another city gave her a better deal, she would have bolted out of St Louis.
@Gateway Goal Horns it was never a top tier stadium 😂 All these large scale renovations still wouldn't have made it much better. They still wanted Kroenke and the NFL to pay a huge portion of it. Plus the River Front stadium asked for 300 million from the NFL, when they only give 200 million. Again you should have signed a better deal.
Funny thing, Rams and Chargers are both top 10 in attendance in SoFi. Yeah you're gonna point out how it's mostly fans of the other team which is true for certain games, but St Louis is a shrinking city with a shrinking economy. The same 15-20 st louis fans on this video are just extremely vocal about the matter.
@Gateway Goal Horns but you had 15 years to make it top tier and didn't try anything until Stan took over. Georgia waived the clause in 2005 (the 10 year mark) in exchange for 30 million in renovations and a little extra money for her. Why do you think Stan was able to take things into arbitration in 2012 and win? Yea, he wanted out and took every way to get out but Georgia made it too easy for him.
And yes he should pay for a stadium himself. All billionaires should. It's not our prerogative. And agree to disagree that the dome was never a top tier stadium, especially in the age of retractable roofs. Hell it didn't even have natural lighting or any sort. Just felt like a soulless basketball Arena.
Stop. Just stop. THE primary reason Georgia moved the team is because LA fans didn't support them. LA fans STILL don't support the team. St. Louis, on the other hand, DID support the team through a Super Bowl title and the worst 5-year stretch in NFL history. So just stop.
“What are the 4 most hated words in someone’s life?” “(I’m a Yankees fan)”
For me it’s (The Reds Lose Again)
I love the Yankees!
@@vk6554 let’s go Red Sox!!
Houston & Boston didn't cheat.
Actually it's "(I'm A Michigan Fan)"
Ironically, Quarterback Kurt Warner led the ST. LOUIS Rams to the Super Bowl in 1999 and 2001, and in 2008, he led the CARDINALS to a Super Bowl. Those were the only Super Bowl appearances for a St. Louis team and for the Cardinals!
Still holding on to a little bit of hope for a football team to come back eventually. Hard to see Kroenke go out and actually spend money on his team (which he refused to do IN STL) in LA and end up winning a super bowl. Hopefully the whole Jon Gruden email situation reveals more collusion and dirty business practices which could start new lawsuits.
I've told people in St. Louis, if you want to send a message to the NFL, support the Battlehawks
@@razormc954 yeah STL had crazy number for a xfl game. They were start selling seats in the upper sections of the Dome because they was such a demand. Can’t wait for them to come back.
@@razormc954 the Blues success the last 5 years has been a massive middle finger to Kroenke.
What does the gruden situation have to do w something that’s completely and entirely unrelated? Jon gruden and Stan Kroenke aren’t even CLOSE to being on the same level. You literally could’ve said “the redskins scandal”. Gruden is so far removed from this topic it might as well be taking place on another planet. What the fuck would Jon gruden emails have to do with Stan kroenkes ownership of the former St. Louis, current la rams? Like actually name 1 single way it equates. I’m honestly curious.
@@richardtherichard26 it’s because there are nearly 1 million emails between owners and coach’s about god knows what. Given what we’ve seen already through some of those emails, wouldn’t surprise me if there was something in there that the NFL wouldn’t want to get out about the whole situation. There definitely is something there about the STL Rams and probably the whole Washington thing. I hope we get to see all those emails and see how corrupt the NFL really is.
"I'm a Yankees fan"
In the ad made me chuckle
The NFL Cardinals had many winning seasons in the 1960s but they always narrowly missed the NFL championship game because they usually had a regular season tie
The closest was 1964. They were 9-3-2. They would start out 3-1-1 on a massive 5 road game stretch caused by the Baseball Cards making the world series. The 1 loss in that span was to the Colts and the the tie was to the Browns. If at home they likely beat the Browns and maybe win against the Colts. That would've gave them a chance at the Championship. Then in 1965, 12th overall(because of how small the league was) in the Draft they selected Joe Namath. Who would choose the AFL over the NFL. Add in Poor Drafting mostly and you get the plight of the 60s Cards.
I’ve got a personal Bidwell story. Bare with me. In 1985,
I was an usher for the Baseball Cardinals through the St. Louis Usher Service, and a season ticket holder for the football Cardinals. In order to work baseball, I was required to work some hockey games at least 2 football games. I was unable to sell or even give my tickets away because the team sucked. The 1st game was in September, so the weather was ok. I was stationed in the box seats and I was still able to watch the game. My 2nd game was the Sunday after Thanksgiving. The weather was dreary with temps in the low 40’s and rainy. I was stationed on the private box level. No T.V.,no radio broadcast, no chance to watch the game. I was freezing my ass off, so I got a cup of hot chocolate trying to stay warm. Bidwell walks by and notices I was drinking hot chocolate and proceeded to tear my a new one. Asking me how could I serve the season ticket holders if I’m not paying attention to my job. I reached into my pocket and pulled out my season tickets and told him verbatim “I am a season ticket holder and I say it’s ok for me to have a warm drink.” Having pissed me off I continued.”I tried to give them away, but no one wanted to freeze their asses off and watch your shitty team” The look on his face was priceless, he didn’t know how to react. 10 minutes later, Mr. Heiney, the head of the usher service informed me I was no longer employed by them. I promptly took my hot chocolate and walked straight to my seats. I told my seat neighbors the story and I was given a hero’s welcome and unlimited hot chocolate. BTW, The Big Red lost 38-3.
Nothings tops the colts fleeing at midnight
I'm mystified that people don't understand that the state of Maryland was attempting to steal the franchise via Imminent Domain. That's the story.
2:50 - Indeed the only other time this has ever happened, off the top of my head anyways, was when the NBA's Cincinnati Royals moved to Kansas City (and Omaha for 3 years) in 1972; and rather than work out a deal with the baseball Royals, who had existed for 3 years by that point, to share the name in a confusing situation, the basketball Royals instead changed their names to the Kings, which they're still known as today, albeit in Sacramento.
And if we're being fair, the football Cardinals were 2nd class citizens at Busch Stadium. The baseball team got first priority which is why the Cards were forced to switch home games with the Eagles in 1985.
For the sake of St. Louis, I hope the XFL/USFL succeeds
Nice videos. I just watched your video on North Korea. You should talk about the Battle of Santiago. The match that made FIFA come up with the yellow and red cards.
He should cover South Korea and the corrupt refs in the 2002 World Cup. Spain and Italy got screwed so hard.
I've been a Cardinals fan for over a decade and had always figured they moved purely to get into a bigger market, not because of the weather; I guess there's an alternate timeline in which the Cardinals became the third Florida team instead of the expansion Jaguars.
They could also have taken up residence in Houston after the Oilers moved to Tennessee.
Stan Kroenke is one of the reasons that I no longer watch the NFL. The league has proven over and over that they care nothing about their fans.
Was is because of the multiple relocations or just the Rams?
And in between the Cards and Rams, you had a near sure thing expansion bid fall apart. The reason why the Jacksonville Jaguars exist (the Carolina Panthers’ bid was a slam dunk and they were obviously getting one of the franchises) is because St. Louis couldn’t get together a single, viable expansion bid and Jacksonville snuck into the league at the last second.
Swing and a miss
Anyone who’s lived in the area knows that the rams weren’t even trying to build a competitive team the last few years they were in STL. They hired Jeff fisher so he could make the transition to a new city easier for the team. It’s also very strange how they all of a sudden became relevant and year or two after leaving.
Yep, Fisher was hired for the same reason he was with the Oilers/Titans, to move them :( and what perfect revenge he gets after losing to stl in the superbowl to move them to La lol though I do have to admit he was an upgrade over the previous coaches we had (Linehan,Spagnolo,Josh Mcdaniels lol)
As an LA Rams fan, it is absolutely true that he made the team bad just to move 😂. But he always put out a team that was just on the verge of being good, hence all the 7-9 seasons.
@@whosaidthat84 exactly which is actually even worse then just being bad because of then you don't get a good draft pick (you do have to give him and les Snead credit for drafting Aaron Donald and Todd Gurley)
@@emoo.182 that's true to a degree but you can typically find top talent outside the top 5. As you pointed with AD99 and TG30, Snead is one of the best at finding talent all across the board.
No free agent wanted to come to STL. They move to LA and everyone wants to be a ram... odd
At least they still have baseball and hockey in St. Louis
And futbol coming soon
They should go all in on the nba expansion.
And the XFL
Bidwell wanted a new stadium. The county agreed to build him one, then the city sued the county. Bidwell then took the Cardinals to Arizona. Also the football Cardinals were tenants to the baseball Cardinals. On the other hand, Kronke had his own stadium, but wanted another, the city was prepared to build him another, he left anyway.
As a St. Louis native, I can say myself that everyone here hates Kroenke but not Bidwell, they seem to have forgotten about it
Northern Cardinals (the bird) are rare in Arizona. I mean, they can live there, but you'd be hard pressed to find them. Also, I guess once the baseball team gave permission to use their name it was a done deal. I'm surprised city leaders didn't fight harder to get the name back much like Cleveland did for the Browns name just out of spite if for anything else.
I never understood Cardinals for Arizona. There are better names based on the state.
@fivepoints vids Arizona's warm, dry weather in the winter is awesome.
If anyone had been paying attention to reporting about the Rams lawsuit, you invariably hear about the Cardinals exit. The fact is that both situations had similarities (both were relocated teams with terrible owners) but the situations themselves were completely different. Bidwill wanted to stay but wasn't able to get things done; Stan LIED. A great authority on both situations is Howard Balzer, so please check out the interviews on the subject he did. #KroenkeOut
You are correct. I totally blamed Vince Schoemel and Gene McNary. Look up those names and you will learn exactly why the Cardinals left STL. What a cluster.
I don’t know if there’s a more-forgettable long-term run for an NFL franchise than the St Louis Cardinals. At least in Chicago they won two championships. At least in Arizona they made a Super Bowl. In St Louis they weren’t even entertainingly bad-they were just below average almost every season.
The Cardinals were like the OG Dolphins. They'd have a few good players, have a decent run or two, and just have the most vanilla 8-8 seasons ever.
Have to disagree a little. My memories were of a team that was JUST good enough to not finish last, thereby giving them a high draft pick. But the Big Red would have messed that up anyway, given their history.
st louis supported the rams win or lose the rams drew great crowds and the ram still moved there should be rules in place to protect the fans from that kind of greedy move the rule should state that any team whose stadium is 3 quarters full or more they shouldn't be allowed to move if their stadium is less then half full then they can move fans shouldn't have to pay the price because owners are greedy
At least St. Louis has a new MLS soccer team named "City SC" now. Who have had a good start to the season with 6 wins, no draws, and only 2 losses.
I’m from stl so i hat stan it’s not like stl was a bad market fans were extremely loyal especially after the greatest show on turf and la already has like 10 teams they didn’t really need another
As someone from St Louis thank you for this video
They then got screwed over AGAIN in the 1995 expansion when the NFL decided to pick Jacksonville to host a new team over the much more appealing St. Louis Stallions. What could have been.
Imagine if the New England Patriots actually became the St. Louis Stallions instead of Robert Kraft engaging in a hostile takeover to keep the Patriots in New England…
Perhaps St. Louis would be the team with 6 Super Bowls in 2 decades.
@@AkiraleTorimaki Would they draft Brady and have Bill as coach
@@coreylevine3856 Dunno
A good video would be the late Saints owner Tom Benson playing "give me what I want or I'll leave New Orleans" before and after Hurricane Katrina. Had Goodell been commissioner instead of Paul Tagliabue, I think that Benson would have gotten his wish.
It's seems like in-betweens the years of 1999 & 2019, St. Louis has known nothing but Pain & Misery 🤷🏾♂️
(At least there's the baseball Cardinals)
And Blues hockey
@@anthony_rivera4735 I think that's why they said 2019 😉
This year is another level of pain though. They had to watch two Kroenke teams hoist the big prize in the span of 5 months!
2 World Series wins and a Stanley Cup is a lot more than most city's of similar size can say.
And technically the STL Rams won the Super Bowl in 2000. I know what you meant though.
As a Cardinals fan, this just makes me happy
Remember when there was a going to be a St. Louis fan protest against Kronke in the XFL game between the BattleHawks and the LA Wildcats? Of course, it wouldn't have proved anything since Stan has nothing to do with the XFL, but then COVID kept the game from ever happening. Oh, what might have been, though...
Myself and three friends had the tickets are were looking forward to it. Dang COVID!
The LA Wildcats is not a NFL Team it only that they base in Los Angeles
You mentioned attendance between the St. Louis Cardinals teams and baseball drawing the bigger crowd. Here's a fun fact: The Tampa Bay Lightning had average attendance comparable to, and even higher than, their current attendance at Amalie when they played at the Thunderdome (more commonly known today as Tropicana Field). A single game NHL attendance record was set in 1993 when they played the Florida Panthers in their home opener at the stadium. This record was broken a few times by other Lightning games until 1996 when a final NHL single game attendance record was set in the 1996 playoffs when they played the New Jersey Devils. That record stood until the 2014 Winter Classic at Michigan Stadium. 2 things to note, this was in a stadium, not an arena meant for hockey AND before Tampa, St. Petersburg, or any other local team for that matter, had a baseball team to play in the stadium. We all know how the attendance is for Rays games, even when they are in the playoffs. And people try to say that hockey doesn't belong in the south. LOL
We learn something new every time you make a video. Keep up the good work.
I think the city of St. Louis deserves another NFL team!
Lolol, my Dad's town in Mexico has had its local soccer team win promotion to Div. 1 twice; franchise was sold, rebranded, and moved to another city both times. I know how St. Louis feels
And if you don't think we have fans, the same dome sold out the XFL
Exactly
And consider we had the literal worst stretch of football history because tanking.
@@jayryan1018 anyone who lives in the city knows that under fisher they weren’t even trying to win games. I’m a Bears fan right across the river. But I sure miss being able to watch nfl football locally. Them leaving was terrible for the city.
it was rocky at first, but in the last 15 years, we've made the Super Bowl, the Championship game, and made the playoffs a handful of times. and now AZ is one of the biggest markets for the NFL, our stadium is always sold out, and the excitement is palatible. especially when the croweds are split 50/50.
The first NHL team in Pittsburgh was the Pirates, so St Louis def isn’t the first or only city to have 2 major sports teams with the same name.
Let’s not forget the Polo Grounds once houses both the NY baseball and football Giants.
The Jaguars should move to St. Louis and keep them in the AFC South with nearby cities Nashville and Indianapolis.
The reasons why they moved are shady, but an even weirder story (IMO) is that of the Cleveland Rams. They moved to Los Angeles the year after winning the NFL championship. (The 1962 Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City after winning the AFL championship, thus being the only other pro football team to move the season after winning a championship.)
But the reason the Dallas Texans became the Kansas City Chiefs was actually because of a thrown out case from 1962, and an agreement between the NFL and CBS Sports. Lamar Hunt had to move the Texans because the Cowboys had won the battle for Dallas. That is how we got the Kansas City Chiefs.
Thank you for pointing out to the LA idiots that their "beloved" team originated in Cleveland. THAT is their true home.
I read somewhere because Sun Devil Stadium is on campus, the fans in general seating couldn't even buy beer. Only those in the club suites could get alcohol. If only Dollar Bill held out a little longer, he would've gotten The Dome downtown instead of the Rams.
I remember hearing that the Cardinals only sold out there first home game in Phoenix because a radio station bought a bunch of tickets just before the first game. Then the season ticket sales dropped off big time for their second season there. In my opinion Bidwell was one of the worst owners in the NFL when it came to running the team. I remember reading Neil Lomax's book and he said Bidwell was the kind of person who would look down instead of saying hello if you walked past him.
Again... Saint Louis deserves Football.. Just like Oakland
Kroenke looks like a complete conman. Hate teams moving personally
He has that shady look to him
I grew up near Baltimore, and I remember talk of the Cardinals moving there. One of my teachers had a "Baltimore Cardinals" t-shirt. I heard that it was neck and neck until Arizona won out because of the weather. If the Cardinals had moved to Baltimore then both of Baltimore's teams would have moved from St. Louis. Instead, both of Baltimore's teams were once called the Browns. If the NBA or NHL ever gets a franchise called the Browns then it will only be a matter of time before they move to Baltimore. So saith the sports gods.
2:08 poor Brad Lidge
It was crazy to see how the MLS vote was totally affected by us being bent over a barrel TWICE. Two propositions were needed to pass in a public vote, and one was rejected. It was SO dumb and massively disappointing, but we have ended up getting an expansion team thank goodness. We are very ready for City SC. We truly don’t need the NFL, especially if the Battlehawks return.
You had a USL team for years that the city refused to support. If your MLS team isnt a top team, they wont get any support either.
@@spazz351 that’s a big lie St Louis fans supported the USL team. Tickets for the MLS team in St Louis are sold out. You’re just making stuff up.
These billionaires shouldn't get a dime from taxpayers.
And it's odd because...there are no cardinals in Arizona.
People ignored the fact that Rams moved from LA to St Louis based on Georgia Frontiere simply wanting a team for her hometown after inheriting the team from her husband. City of Anaheim was ready to make a new stadium just for them. LA took back what was rightfully theirs 🤷🏽♂️
Did St Louis get fucked? Yes they did, but they shouldn’t have taken the Rams to begin with. Frontiere sucked so hard…
Yep. Funny how that gets ignored in St Louis. It’s the St Louis double standard. Georgia was awful.
At least we got a bit of money back from the PSL lawsuit. And man, if they would have built that Cardinals stadium in St. Louis county....that site is 7 min from me that would have been so damn convenient.
I would much rather have a team. They city is going to squander the money.
Anytime they say it isn't about money, it always is.
Hopefully st Louis gets a NFL expansion team
Not gonna happen
St. Louis ended up with the Rams for a ridiculous reason. Who cares?
as a resident of STL, i can confirm that, in terms of living there, we are just Detroit copied and pasted into Missouri. And you know what they say, “Cant have shit in Detroit.”
We at least have better BBQ and slightly less ruins
The party line at the time that still grates is that they left for a bigger stadium when they couldn’t fill up the one they had. But the baseball team sure could. When they had a product, they had plenty of support. A pox on the Bidwills and on the Cardinals for as long as they own them. Don’t even get me started on Kroenke, but at least the Rams have a tradition of carpetbagging.
FWIW, The Cardinals owner was named Bidwill, not Bidwell.
5:30 - Or October, November, December, January, February or April
🤷🏻♂️🤣
This best be a cursionary tale to city's that fund stadiums to their sports teams as in don't do it.
As a St. Louis native and sports fanatic, this video needs a trigger warning
The Chiefs are right there. Just become chiefs fans.
@@kimyona9746 anyone who knows St. Louis knows we ain’t chiefs fans
@@nathansimpson5721 Missouri doesn't need another team so just go for the Chargers or something they have 25 fans anyway
@@kimyona9746 Hell No
@@kimyona9746 We have the XFL coming to St Louis
Can't forget the XFL Battle Hawks either, although that wasn't a move. St. Louis fans can't catch a break. Somebody get them a football team already!!
The XFL is returning to St Louis
@@alistairfannell6694 Good to hear 👍
The Rams shouldn’t have been allowed to move to St. Louis in the first place. A wrong was righted in 2016.
The two NFL franchises that sucked dollars out of St. Louis before leaving were dregs of the league for most of their time there. St. Louis Rams: 147-191-1 in 21 seasons. St. Louis Cardinals: 186-202-14 in 28 seasons.
As a saints fan I feel bad for Saint Louis. Similar city vibe to New Orleans
But they went to a Super Bowl in Arizona.
With another St. Louis tie: Kurt Warner.
I kinda feel any time a city builds a stadium for a team, they should hide way way down in the sub-Mouse print of the contract that if the team leaves the city before the stadium build cost is repaid the team forfeits 75% of all TV revenues to the city.
2:09 No one EVER plays Pujols getting stuck out in the bottom of the 1st by Roy Oswalt in game 6.
I always thought it was cool that St Louis had football and baseball teams with the same name like my high school.
I feel like this actually worked out for St Louis cause they were in the running for an expansion team, lost out on that chance but then the LA Rams decided to move to St Louis maybe cause of their dome, won a Super Bowl so they trump the Cards in that regard BUT STILL...
I would have preferred the Rams staying in LA and St Louis getting an expansion team
Went up to STL to check out the eclipse in 2018. Friends went to bed early, I walked to a bar , and before I knew it asked someone “How about the rams” dude thought I was trying to be a smart ass. Can’t say it last per long, but was still awkward, I didn’t realize they just left haha
St. Louis deserved better
*stares into the vast infinite well of bitterness and anger left by the NFL and passed from one generation to the next*
Yeahhhh…after the Avs, if the Cardinals can actually find some pitching and not waste Arenado or Goldschmidt that would be great.
You know, I almost feel sorry for St. Louis.
But then I think to myself, 'Would **YOU** want to live in St.Louis?' and the answer to that question is a great big NOPE. Shit, people in **Detroit** think living in St.Louis sucks dog balls....
Roger Goodell need to get off his righteous horse and do something good for the city of St. Louis. An expansion team with a stipulation attached on wet ink that the team CANNOT be moved anywhere. Either stay or be folded. When AAF came to St. Louis, the fanbase came out in droves to support their Hawks. And please no more domed stadiums!
Not holding my breath on that one.....