Should the U.S. Military Intervene in Taiwan? A Soho Forum Debate
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Brookings Institution senior fellow William Galston debates former State Department diplomat Peter Van Buren
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Should the United States use military force to deter China from invading Taiwan?
That was the subject of this month's Soho Forum debate, which took place in front of a full house at the Sheen Center in downtown Manhattan.
William Galston, a senior fellow at the nonprofit Brookings Institution and a former policy adviser to President Bill Clinton, defended the resolution. He argued that the U.S. should use all the tools at its disposal to deter foreign powers from engaging in conflict with their neighbors, with the ultimate goal of preventing an outright war such as the one we are witnessing in Europe.
Peter Van Buren, who spent 24 years working as a diplomat for the U.S. State Department, took the negative. He argued that Americans rarely have the context or understanding to intervene productively in foreign conflicts, and that more often than not, what looks like deterrence to one party looks like provocation to the other. Invoking the many years of experience he gained as a State Department diplomat stationed in Asia, he stated confidently that there would be no invasion of Taiwan by China either soon or in the distant future.
The debate was moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein.
Narrated by Nick Gillespie; intro edited by John Osterhoudt
Photos: event photography by Brett Raney; CHINE NOUVELLE/SIPA/Newscom; Kyodo/Newscom; Daniel Ceng Shou-Yi/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Jameson Wu/EyePress News EyePress/Newscom; Ju Peng Xinhua News Agency/Newscom; TOM WALKER/UPI/Newscom
Both China and Taiwan in their respective Constitutions stated that there is only One China and Taiwan is a part of China.
To put things in perspective, Chinese represent 15% of the island's population, the rest are native Formosans who have lived on the island since 1600s. The so-called Constitutions of China were drafted in China and has nothing to do with the Taiwanese population who never had anything to do with Chinese laws. In fact, the Chinese would have never been on the island of Taiwan if not for U.S. intervention in letting the exiled Republic of China government escape to Taiwan in 1949 after defeat by the communist. Taiwan, like Okinawa, had already been Japanese territory for half a century and the people on the island do not even identify themselves as Chinese. To date, there is not a single treaty that hands sovereignty of the island to any nation no less the Republic of China (which is nothing but an illegitimate exiled government the Chinese do not even recognize themselves).
72% are Indian from kerela province in India. Rotichanai is the Taiwanese usual food.
😊
@@raininthesouth The name Formosa was invented by western colonizers and so called native formosans are Chinese in nature.
"China has not yet invaded" is the lamest argument that China will not invade. "Hitler has not invaded" and "Putin has not invaded" were all true until they were not true.
Tho as a side note, as of right now, Putin invading Ukraine is more of an immediate concern
@@ryanhau1073 Seems pretty well handled to me at least. Ukraine is fighting back and seems to be winning the war for now.
VanB truly believes that immensely dimwitted statement. lol
Xi has said unequivocally that unless Tawan unites voluntarily, he will invade. Not only has he said so, but he is obliged by Chinese law to do so. He isn't bluffing.
@@hardrada3534 LOLOLOL. I bet you get your news from MSM.
YES! FORGET UKRAINE! WE NEED TO PROTECT TAIWAN AT ALL COSTS!
People don't understand the need for Taiwan. They're our main importer of microprocessing chips. We cannot let them fall. However we cannot attack China, only defend Taiwan.
@Joel I've already put my time in service in. They couldn't even recruit me in a draft even if they want me because I've already completed the obligated 8 years of service.
@Joel Don't join the voluntary military.
@Joel Let's have an actual discussion before insulting someone you don't know for no reason.
That's just stupid. You're not going to protect Taiwan. It's literally right off the coast of China. Any fleet even remotely getting close to it in wartime is going to be sunk with barrages of hypersonic missiles from the mainland. China can take that island anytime it wants. It just prefers a peaceful reunification. The US is the side trying to provoke a war because it knows its system is failing and is trying to get a war going before it is too weak to have a chance of winning.
@@rogerrinkavage What's insulting is a guy who saber rattles we "PROTECT TAIWAN AT ALL COSTS!" but when someone mentions it could be their friends and family on the front line the saber rattler makes the situation about him! "I've already put my time in service in. They couldn't even recruit me in a draft even if they want me..."
If the U.S. and Nato had respected their agreements, the Ukraine war wouldn't have happened.
So should we respect our Agreement with Taiwan?
This is NEVER mentioned in CNN, ABC, NBC, FAUX NEWS, CBS. It is always the fault of Russia. Americans are kept in the dark as in so many other cases.
M r. Galston shame on you.
Taiwan is not a country by de jure. It is part of the China. That is why majority of countries in the UN recognized there is only one China and it is the People's Republic of China which replaced Republic of China (Taiwan) in 1949 as one of the founding member of UN. It is also the reason why the US has not established any embassy in Taiwan. Anyone with a little bit of knowledge of the China recent history will understand this international legal issue.
Living in Taipei as an American has shown me the value of military deterrence. In Taiwan, a vibrant democracy with the worlds 22nd largest economy, peaceful maintenance of the status quo is largely contingent on the perceived likelihood of American intervention. When people ask me whether America will “save them when China attacks” I answer based on my faith in American values.
hahahahahaha
the US abandoned Taiwan before anybody in 1972,we recognized the CCP in exchange for them stopping the NV from overrunning the South for at least 2 years after the US left like coward's, so the US could save some face
the US doesnt recognize Taiwan today, the largest country that does is Guatamala with approximately 18 million people
the US forced Taiwan to stop its hughly innovative nuclear weapons program in 1988 ,in the grounds it would destabilize the region
the US has lost all 18 internal war games attempting to defend Taiwan from China per Harvards Belfer Center
US Plans to Destroy Taiwan to “Save” It
By
New Atlas
-
February 26, 2022
February 26, 2022 (Brian Berletic - NEO) - Tensions between the United States and China exist across a wide spectrum of areas, from economics to geopolitics. Among the many flashpoint issues defining this growing confrontation is the “Taiwan question.”

Officially, the United States recognizes what is known as the “One China Policy.” The US State Department’s own webpage regarding US-Taiwan relations explicitly states:
The United States and Taiwan enjoy a robust unofficial relationship. The 1979 US-PRC Joint Communique switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing. In the Joint Communique, the United States recognized the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, acknowledging the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.
The US State Department also claims that, “the United States does not support Taiwan independence.”
And yet unofficially the US maintains the American Institute of Taiwan (AIT) serving as a defacto embassy for a territory the US does not have “official” relations with. The US also sells millions of dollars of weapons to Taiwan’s administrative authorities creating a military threat almost exclusively directed toward the Chinese mainland.
A 2021 Voice of America article titled, “US Nearly Doubled Military Personnel Stationed in Taiwan This Year,” would admit:
Active-duty deployments now include 29 Marines as well as two service members from the Army, three from the Navy and five from the Air Force, according to the Pentagon’s Defense Manpower Data Center.
The stationing of US military personnel on the island of Taiwan, territory the US officially recognizes as “part of China,” or at the very least, territory the US recognizes China has claimed as its own - is an obvious provocation. US diplomatic, political, economic, and now military activity on and around Taiwan takes place thousands of miles from America’s own shores and helps illustrate that amidst rising tensions between the US and China, Washington is clearly the chief instigator.
And as the US has done in proxy conflicts around the globe and even in regards to China itself, the US has devised a strategy to use Taiwan against mainland China. If and when Taiwan finally provokes Beijing into action, this same strategy ensures nothing is left of Taiwan upon reunification.
The United State Army War College Press published a paper in late 2021 titled, “Broken Nest: Deterring China from Invading Taiwan.” It discusses a variety of options to “deter” a “Chinese invasion of Taiwan without recklessly threatening a great-power war.”
The idea is to use Taiwan as a point of contention for as long as possible and then sacrifice it entirely to deny it to China and any aspirations toward reunification.
At one point the paper claims:
To start, the United States and Taiwan should lay plans for a targeted scorched-earth strategy that would render Taiwan not just unattractive if ever seized by force, but positively costly to maintain. This could be done most effectively by threatening to destroy facilities belonging to the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, the most important chipmaker in the world and China’s most important supplier.
For Washington, such an option would easily satisfy US geopolitical objectives. For Taiwan, it would be a catastrophe, wiping out one of its most important industries. At the same time the US is planning to “scorch” Taiwan’s chip industry, it is attempting to move at least part of Taiwan’s chip-making capacity to the continental United States.
Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) has been “encouraged” to build a $12 billion factory in Arizona. While articles published by American papers like the Washington Post attempt to depict the move in a positive light, it cannot be denied that TSMC faces labor, regulatory, tax, and cost challenges, some of which will take years to surmount, others are entirely insurmountable and likely to only worsen over time. Doing business in the United States obviously puts TSMC at a disadvantage and helps further illustrate the ongoing and ever increasing price Taiwan is paying for America’s “friendship.”
Conversely, the Chinese mainland represents Taiwan’s largest source of trade in terms of both imports and exports. Before the independence-tilting Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) took power on the heels of the US-sponsored “Sunflower” protests in 2014, Taiwan counted the mainland as a major investor, source of tourism, and had sought to increase economic cooperation in all areas.
This was artificially stopped by the US and its DPP allies upon taking office, costing Taiwan and its economy dearly in the process. The tourism industry, for example suffered “a 59 per cent decline in tour group numbers and a 73 per cent drop for independent travellers,” according to the South China Morning Post.
As one can see looking at other US allies around the globe in recent years, Taiwan’s fate is almost certainly one of tragedy. Even in regards to China itself, and more specifically, the political opposition in Hong Kong, there are many examples for Taiwan to take note of. Hong Kong opposition parties, media platforms, and street movements were used by the United States to undermine peace, stability, and economic prosperity in the special administrative region. When Hong Kong’s government finally restored order many among the movement were either arrested and jailed, or decided to flee abroad to live in less-than-desirable conditions since.
The Hong Kong opposition for all intents and purposes no longer exists today. Many exhibit regret for participating in the movement, and perhaps most of all, regret trusting the United States government and its “assurances” that it would continue supporting the movement.
The US through its media and policy circles, has all but assured that the same fate awaits Taiwan. Only time will tell if the people and the government of Taiwan are capable of learning from these other increasingly numerous examples of US “friendship” in action, and whether or not they steer Taiwan back toward the status quo with the mainland which much more resembles a mutually beneficial relationship than the “scorched earth” future Washington has waiting for the island and its people.
Brian Berletic is a Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.
@@paulsansonetti7410 firstly, diplomatic recognition of ROC vs PROC is driven mostly by the relative size of their economies. However, Taiwan-USA relations are now at their highest watermark in decades. Taiwanese citizens watch American elections to see if America is a reliable partner across election cycles, but so far support for maintaining the status quo is bipartisan.
@@TheStandUp2011
No U.S. official has analyzed this issue more assiduously than Robert Work, who served as Deputy Secretary of Defense under three secretaries before stepping down in 2017. While the acid test of military forces is their performance in combat, the next best indicator is war games. As Work has stated publicly, in the most realistic war games the Pentagon has been able to design simulating war over Taiwan, the score is 18 to 0. And the 18 is not Team USA. Reporting on an Air Force war game conducted last fall documented a different outcome: the U.S. military successfully repelled a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, but doing so required fielding systems that it doesn’t yet have, that aren’t in production, and that aren’t even planned for development, in addition to undertaking major structural reforms and convincing Taiwan to multiply its defense spending. These findings are and should be cause for alarm, since Taiwan is the most likely source of military conflict between China and the U.S. As Admiral Davidson warned in March 2021, the risk of conflict over Taiwan is “manifest during this decade
@@TheStandUp2011
Western media’s favorite Hong Kong ‘freedom struggle writer’ is American ex-Amnesty staffer in yellowface
MAX BLUMENTHAL·AUGUST 8, 2020
A prominent Hong Kong pundit and anti-China activist named Kong Tsung-gan has become a go-to source for Western media. An investigation by The Grayzone confirms Kong as a fake identity employed by an American teacher who’s a ubiquitous figure at local protests.
What deterence is done in ukraine war .. i think the Minsk agreement should have been honored instead of provoking for war
Why even a debate - US has no reason to be in Indo Pacific except as a warmonger. Sadly it wants others to do the fighting because it has not won a war in the last 70 years against 3rd world countires, even Cuba could not be invaded by the mighty US!
The negative seems willfully short sided and naïve.
No
Bald man knew nothing about electronics and technology, he really thought CPU or GPU is all about smart phones. Amateur came to debate whether Taiwan should go independence or status quo.
"Should the U.S. Military Intervene in-"
"NO."
"But you didn't let me finish!"
"NO."
Taiwan was occupied by the Japanese from 1895-1945, how can China and Taiwan share the same history up until 1945?
Holland was the first country to colony Formosa in the 16th century.
Same history before 1895? At least do a quick google search. There were many Chinese dynasties that didn't control Taiwan.
Exactly. But let me offer my reading into the china mind :
1. China plays by CCP rule. It can disregard all rules and only follow ccp rule. Its just like religious fanatics putting religious belief above all laws of the world.
2. If China feels tw belongs to China, then that's the truth to the ccp.
3. One China roti prata :
1. ROC founder was Sun Yat Sen. He ruled china until rebels kicked him out of mainland and he escaped to occupy taiwan.
To ROC, Mainland BELONGS to Taiwan ROC.
2. To China, TW belongs to PRC. But PRC not for 1 day ever occupied taiwan.
One China : Same same, but different. English is not accurate like science. Its merely an art form😅 thats why you can flip the prata.
In a nutshell, One China is Two Kinds of China. Not ONE. One is actually Two. Art is all about the Possibilities . Quantum mechanics may apply. Art allows for oral masturbation.
Just to add for fun : North Korea uses the word Korea in its name. South Korea also has Korea in its name. Are they the same ? No. NKorea is clearly not SKorea. Likewise, TW is not china and vice versa. A name is nothing but a name. PRC China is not Republic of China.
Copyrights to Dave BakChoy
Through history, the autocratic aggressor would only invade its neighbour when its leader believed the invasion would be easily victorious. With this simple logic, the stronger the neighbour and its allies, the less likely a war will be waged. US leaving Asia, will definitely trigger the war.
One of the biggest threats in our humanity, is autocratic and authoritarian regimes. Unlike democracy, the leader of autocratic regimes has too much power, without an opposing power to make sure its policy is sound and wise. To make it worse, the subordinates would not tell the truth and always give advise to suck up to the emperor. This is exactly what we are seeing in China and Russia. An authoritarian regime will always miscalculates and thinks it's invincible, and consequently it will ALWAYS invade its neighbours once it is becoming powerful enough.
To deter such a threat, the democratic nations should collectively make it clear to the potential aggressor that the cost of waging a war will be detrimental to itself. In this case, US and allies should all clearly states that they will join force to help defending any democratic nations under attack from autocratic neighbours.
It's a war between democracy and autocracy.
You are full of bs, Tokumei 😏…
I listened open-mindedly and find i agree more with the first speaker overall but believe skilled diplomats should lead backed by overwhelming deterrence. We currently have no good leadership in in the State Dept. and have not since 1992 save for Pompeo. Powell could have been but was bulldozed by the neo cons in the failed Bush admin.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
There are all kinds of reasons to help defend Taiwan, but Fighting a war with China over a few semiconductor fabrication plants, is idiotic. Sure, fabs are expensive 2-4 billion dollars, but super carriers cost 14 billion. And rebuilding New York after it gets nuked is even more expensive.
Do you know how many nuke with China and how many Nuke in US.
1: There is no reason or incentive to rebuild a city after being nuked if the entire city is destroyed (and it would be, you dont nuke half a city if your nukes are capable of finishing the job).
2: The entire point of multiple countries owning nukes is that nobody will dare use them, its called a "nuclear deterrent" and if you dont think that works you must have overlooked the entire cold war.
@@lizadonrex Between the two sides, they each have enough to do the job numerous times over. So this is a non starter.
@@lizadonrex they have enough to hit New York several times, (and theyre building more) so my point still stands
@@infwhale9183 and you forgot US have some of the best anti ballistic missile system in the world, while china have very little.
Oil is the oil of the 21st century. Microchips might be the steel of the 21st century.
I think what ur trying to say is that microchips are the life essence of the 21st century. Without them, we won't be able to advance technologically anymore.
@@user-tt3xu2hf5b The microchip factories in Taiwan are manufacturing those required for current technology. Any advance over current technology will require new manufacturing facilities. There is no reason to build those new factories in Taiwan. There are abundant and evident reasons not to.
Neither side is interested in justice or peace. If they were the solution would be obvious: give Taiwan back to native Taiwanese. Usa and PRC are working together against all of us.
Give Hawaii, Grenada, Guam, etc all back to their native folks. No? For justice?
@@Dan16673 why not?
@@SMDAHL In fact, all nation states should be dissolved as they were created at the expense of kicking out indigenous peoples, somewhere along the way. In fact, we could just make sure anyone with heritage that isn't indigenous to the lands they are in should immediately go back to their ancestral lands. Forget that human history is one of constant, consistent migrations , both violent, and peaceful, to new places! Mass chaos sounds amazing. Thanks ! Or, just spitballing here...we could be mature adults and realize that it's not 10,000 bc, and try to just be nicer human beings to each other in the here and now, rather than what blood was spilling 500 years ago. Justice, and peace, isn't found by people reliving the past, and pretending it can just come again if we just wish away reality.
BS
No interested
The man who claims Americans can never penetrate foreign cultures and understand them and therefore makes a mess with every foreign policy decision then turns around and says if you understood the people of Taiwan as well as he does then you'd agree with him that they really are Chinese.
He's an absolute disgrace honestly.
Regardless it is in our own best interest as a nation and as libertarians to divest from China, why should we spend our money with the least libertarian humans in existence?
What is Joe going to do?
"Taiwan as the new OPEC of semiconductors"? Are the semiconductors mined in Taiwan as a natural resource? This is the stupidest argument for war over Taiwan I have heard so far.
Stay home and Jump into popcorn 🍿
Considering that we have placed most of our computer chip manufacturing in Taiwan, we haven't given ourselves any choice.
There is always a choice, people choose the more convenient way though
We could choose to manufacture chips in the US.
... and yes, I understand the economic impact that choice brings.
@@robinvegas4367 Theres facilities being invested in/built in the US right now. Still takes time and alot of money to get it operational.
Except to diversify. I doubt China will loan us another trillion so we can wage war on them.
Regarding Taiwan's computer chips. People say we should mind our own business - it's a slogan. And they say we should manufacture them here. That's ideal.
I teach 1st & 2nd year college math. I ask my students who is a STEM major. How many hands do you think goes up?
Well there you go ... let's go to war with China because we can't get out own students to take STEM majors!
How about the west take responsibility for its failures instead of blaming China for its success?
Our local community college has about 2% stem enrollments. 80% liberal arts. Last I checked.
You lost me at "..and Donald Trump." Your opinion was instantly rendered irrelevant.
Taiwan has NEVER been under the governance of the People's Republic of China. The government of Taiwan is older than the PRC. The PRC has no claim over Taiwan, and yes it's likely China will eventually try to annex Taiwan if they see an opportunity to. We should do what we can to prevent that from happening.
The PRC has claim over Taiwan the same way the Union had claim over Confederate Lands in the US civil war. The Chinese civil war hasn't ended. There's been no peace treaty. If the US tries to intervene on Taiwan's behalf it will become a cobelligerent of the war and will have to accept all the negative consequences.
@@TeleologicalConsistency This is incorrect, but a lot of people mistakenly believe it. The PRC never had a claim over Taiwan. It was never under their control. The ROC is the body that governs Taiwan and it is OLDER than the PRC government which was formed after their revolution in 1949.
The Qing Dynasty once had control over Taiwan, NOT the PRC. The Qing Dynasty is no more and the PRC never had a claim over Taiwan so it's really nothing like the situation between the Union and the south.
@@gibbytravis In a civil war either faction has claim over the other. "China" at the time of the civil war owned Taiwan. Therefore whatever faction that wins the civil war has claim on Taiwan. That's how it works.
@@TeleologicalConsistency The US Civil War analogy would only work if the Confederates had won the Civil War and chased the Union Army to Manhattan Island, but was never able to conquer it because the British Navy blocked them. And then The Confederates created an evil totalitarian single party slave empire, declared itself the one and only " America" and then threatened any foreign country that acknowledged the independence of the Free Democratic government of Manhattan.
That is like saying that Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk have never been under the governance of Ukraine (the regime established by the US led coup in 2014 and continued after an election where the pro-Russian rebels did not vote)
YES
Doesn't the U.S. have a couple dozen bases all over Japan?
Nooooo
Deterrance also has limitations. Can you deter Russia enough to give the city of Moscow to Ukraine as a Xmas gift? When you are applying ur deterrence tool to achieve some unrealistic goals, it's not deterrance anymore.
One war at a time please
Unfortunately, William Galston's deportment reminds me of Anthony Fauci. Therefore, I find it difficult to give his argument too much credibility, even though I would probably normally agree with his hypothesis....
American national interest🧐…….be very concern!!!
Old men arguing over what to do with the lives of young.
good way to avoid being thrown into what you may see as an unjust war, don't volunteer for the military. At this point, with the last 20 years and things like Vietnam any person who joins the military and then is shocked at the idea that they might be sent into a war that isn't clearly justifed is a fool.
Nothing like hating others and calling them your enemy rather than trade freely with them in peace. Only government can find all this violence useful because they gain power and it costs them nothing.
No wars!!!
😩A US intervention in
Taiwan should be to help
and to bless Taiwan"s return home to the Glorified Motherland .
It will generate a happy love affair , mother to
Child re-union , never in
History seen or achieved
before.
President Xi is the proud father
and Miss Tsai is the lovable daughter , no longer an enemy at or in
the war mote.
... Harris Ng YM 👻👍🇷🇺🇨🇳🇺🇸🇮🇳🇧🇷🇦🇺🇬🇧😀👪
New mindset in the New World Order.
WW3 will solve this problem. Let the show begin.
Kudos for the bald guy!! For once a message of sanity and reasonable restraint.
Prepositioned war supplies. Also known as initial target lists. However, prepositioning them in Poland and other NATO border states . . .
We come to bring you peace with a gun? Not sure about it.
yet another debate that nonsensically reduces a war over Taiwan to a war between the US and China. The war is not a bilateral issue but a political one that pits the democrats of Asia against the communists of Asia. For all this talk about how the Euro-Atlantic advocates for democracy it is actually the Asia-Pacific which has been the most ready, willing and able to die for democracy. This was the case in the past (South Korea is a case in point) but will be even more so the case in the future as the geopolitical situation in Asia gets more tense. The sooner people like van Buren understands this, the better the prospects will be for world peace
What a joke,sk has no business in what is officially recognized china's territory,
SK isn't threatened by Chinese communism push it's not mao era, wtf are you even smoking? Only Japan somewhat cares bc that would bring china closer to Okinawa chain,even than that doesn't mean china seeks to I Vader Japan only senkaku is d8sputed.
That is an obtuse logic to say today it's a war between democrats vs communism in asia pacific when China isn't preaching or backing communism anywhere,it's not MAO era,it's about west and their cronies,trying to contain a local asian hegemon that dislocates Western hegemony in asia.
Honestly, if the CCP invades Taiwan before the next Republican President takes office, I expect the dark horse in the ensuing war will be India.
Japan and S. Korea will HAVE to get involved, because they're next if the CCP feels Taiwan was sufficiently successful. And they're going to be choked out economically even if not, should the CCP control Taiwan and what it commands of the seas in that region.
But India has, in the last decade, had a number of "encounters" with CCP army patrols that "accidentally got lost and wandered" across the border into India. And each time, the Indian army has humiliated the CCP army and chased them back into CCP territory, where they got their butts further kicked.
India can no more afford China controlling all of the rare earth, microchip fabs, and sea travel/trade that actually running Taiwan would give the CCP than can anybody else. India will move in to put a stop to it, possibly just by invading over the back door to force the CCP to split its attention.
I agree, but definitely not on the point of the Asia-Pacific being the most ready, willing and able to die for democracy. That is not borne out in the facts of history.
@@StellarAudyssey Nearly all the Asia Pacific countries had indigenous insurgencies against occupation by Japan.
For the Chinese, the United States is the enemy of the Chinese by interfering in China's civil war and preventing China's national reunification.
No
How Taiwan provokes China
1. deal with diseases from China
2. deal with its own historical atrocities (white terror)
3. deal with its people within a democracy
How China provokes Taiwan
1. start the First Taiwan Strait Crisis
2. start the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis
3. start the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis
Yeah, that's pretty spot on
@Eric Au you are a lier! China's policy towards Taiwan has never changed - pursue a peaceful reunification! It is Taiwan violate its own constitutions of both taiwan area and mainland area belongs to Republic of China, and American use Taiwan as a pown to provoke Mainland. Angelo Saxon " divide and rule" aims to create conflicts and spread hatred among people around the world so they can stay on top. One of the reasons they can do so because of people like you, consciencless liers and haters, you should feel shame of yourself!
That’s what an allergy asthmatic empire is facing today. Breathless most of the time when there’s a conflict somewhere in the world. 😊😊
Some people are just not equiped to learn lessons from the past and present history. As articulated as he sems to think he is, Mr. Galston is one of them. He present a simplistic view that doesn't match with the real world and underestimate the consequences of greater conflict for whom will suffer it.
Sure thing Mr Chamberlain
The two questions I am askimg myself are
1) How likely has a potentialy very severe event to bo so that planning with it in mind is warranted?
2) Didn't Putin risk his standing internally by risking that bodybags would pile Up? Aparently yes. So why wouldnt Xi? Dictators or Autocrats sometimes defy logic and go all in.
Which means you have to be ready to stop them, because the alternative is letting them take whatever they want.
@@segevstormlord3713 yeah, probably
Yep. And given how China has no problem pushing India in the Kashmir region, you’d have the stakes are even higher with Taiwan.
@@timpoolsbeanie2296 Yeah, India absolutely doesn't want CCP-dominated China to gain a lock on the sea routes that Taiwan controls.
I have a theory. That Both Russia, and China agreed to attack at the same time. China backed out when the war started.
Using Van Buren's analogy, one would think a bank with armed security is provoking bank robbers.
Any fortifications given to Taiwan would always be just the start of them. Billion this year, some next. 5 billion in 5 years. It would never be enough. The largest naval force in the history of the world complains about lack of money. Eventually that arms flow flips into provocation, and official independence movement in Taiwan gains popularity and strategic ambiguity gets forgotten. And the red line gets crossed.
@@Tenebrousable And your argument amounts to: "Let China escalate until they can take over Taiwan by force, because we don't want to escalate to keep ahead of them lest they decide to take Taiwan by force."
The best defense against a warmonger is to be clearly able to win against them. Warmongers don't go to war expecting to lose.
Only if the bank had waged economic warfare against the robbers, ie the US sanctioning PRC for the first 20 years of its existence. Also the bank physically attacking the robbers in their homes, ie US invading Chinese airspace during the Korean War, and backing the British in the imperialist Opium Wars.
@@garrettramirez428 Cute, but no. The mob does get raided when it openly plans for robberies, and runs organized crimes. And the CCP wages economic war on the West *at least* as much as the West does to them. The economic warfare of the West is simply not letting the CCP use its slave labor and money manipulation to undermine and steal Western economic power.
So, you can pretend the bank is waging economic warfare against the robbers when the bank demands they pay back what the robbers embezzled, but that doesn't exactly make the robbers the victims.
Taiwan is China's, not European descendants
(b)(3) of the Taiwan Relations Act. It reads, "the United States decision to establish diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China rests upon the expectation that the future of Taiwan will be determined by peaceful means;"
We must stand with Taiwan. The most advanced chip manufacturing plant on earth is there. Most bikes are made in Taiwan. Plus they are good people
Bikes can be made elsewhere without significant startup capital. And you don't fight wars with bikes.
Chips are what is critical.
@@zzzanon China produces and processes 90%+ of the rare earth minerals required to make those chips in the first place. What do you think happens to those chip makers when that supply gets cut off?
Or you can work towards producing the semiconductor chips here in the US, despite how long it will take.
@@TeleologicalConsistency , you raised a good point. Everyone depends on Taiwan semiconductors, which rely on rare earths.
I heard that Australia, within the last couple years, found some rare earths. Is it enough, or even the correct kinds? I don't know.
But yes, rare earths are likewise critical.
@@timpoolsbeanie2296 , yes, or at least in a non-hostile nation (e.g. not China).
They cost billions to construct, and require employees that are very highly skill in specialized areas. So it is not trivial.
I read that there is a foundry being constructed in Arizona.
The guy on the nagitive side clearly is clueless when he said "the Chinese on both sides of the strait..."
85% of people in Taiwan identify ourselves (yes I am from Taiwan) as Taiwanese, not Chinese, much the same way Americans don't identify themselves as British, despite the fact that both speak the same language and share the same culture and are both democratic nations. Ukrainians don't identify themselves as Russians when they were both part of USSR on the past, and this is especially true when the war broke out.
Taiwanese are more Chinese than mainland Chinese.
Mainland Chinese are cultural communists.
Till US and west didn't interfere into the russian- ukraininan relationship there were no problems with either identification. Only after the coups initiated from the outside, shutting down Russian media, banning Russian movies, books, language in Ukraine, destroying any pro-russian forces and staring hartred antirussian propaganda the Ukrainian identity was forced to be formed.
@@LDunny Antirussian propaganda? That's a funny word. Propaganda is something used by authoritarian regimes, while people from democracy have access to all kinds of free-flowing information and can decide for themselves what to believe. I totally disagree with your sentiment. The world will be much safer if all the authoritarian regimes are replaced with democracy. Democratic nations never ever invade another democratic nation, while authoritarian nations are eager to invade its neighbours with their expansion ambition.
@@tokumeig654 🤣 So, you belive that it is OK to invade "non-democratic" countries? And to replace the governments? Like US/ Nato did countless times with Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Libya, Serbia etc...Mate, you are delusional. US has one of the most corrupt, ruthless and power/ money driven regime. They keep forgetting that they are sharing the planet with other countries, who have their very own national interests . Who are they to decide what governments to chose for them? There is no other country on the planet who could beat the American/UK propaganda. They own 90% of the world's media outlets, the censorship on all the social media platform is atrocious They twist the arms of every country that doesn't go in line with their agenda and act like a bully by seizing the assets of the "misbahaved" countries & by sanctioning them economically , militarily and politically. Orwellian world has arrived...
Yes,if Taiwan is not defended,Japan will follow, geography of the region won't allow US to defend Japan once China gets control of Taiwan!!
Taiwan is a breakaway province due to a civil war that's 96% Han Chinese. It's nothing like Japan. The only reason it hasn't reunified peacefully already is because the US wants to financially and militarily contain China. It's a puppet state.
We have 400 military bases surrounding China, so I would worry more about the drain on the economy, and the need to create perpetual states of conflict, to justify the expense.
If the US wants to take advantage of this opportunity to prove to the world that they can actually do the right thing for once, yes.
What's that stay home. For once.
@@nephilimninjaofnibiru2907 tell that to China. Stay at home or get the biomb
@@texajp9744 Our track record provides all the evidence. This is just one more set of butterfly wings you can't fix.
@Daniel It embarrassing as a Taiwanese to demand another women's husband to defend you. Maybe if you weren't in Canada but in Taiwan as a soldier you could make a difference.
@@Yasharal110 ok Uncle Thomas
Galston's point that Taiwan creates 94% of the World's advanced semiconductors is critical because the US and the world's economy and military depend on those. California's software relies upon Taiwan's chips.
Could we pivot to another supplier? Whom? South Korea's Samsung would be threatened. China's SMIC is aligned with the PRC obviously.
This is a big threat.
Great debate. I appreciated it.
It's already done. The new advanced chip factory is being built right now in Phoenix Az. Tsmc
That’s that good old fashioned neocon empire mentality that everyone knows and loves. It’s ok to send other people’s kids to die as long as we get our microchips
@@bigz5262 Can't win a war without chips. I'll gladly go. Lessen my carbon footprint by smoking some communists
@@dj_ath what war? Who attacked us?
Guess where 90%+ of the rare earth minerals which is used to create those semiconductors come from? China.
Japan and Taiwan can fend off the PRC alone, but yes US should defend Taiwan as its a nation thats allied with the US and showed support in what the US does
To play the other side, how many dead Americans are you willing to accept to ensure that Taiwan (at least temporarily) remains independent, especially considering that most of Taiwan citizens, when polled, are unwilling to fight for their own country?
@@zzzanon none, the US wants to use the rest of Asia to fight China like they are using Ukraine to fight Russia. Not a single American troop in Ukraine
@@zzzanon more than 70% of Taiwanese are willing to kill Chinese if they invade - the updated pull on the island FYI
@@zzzanon Not a single American, but a fuck ton of munitions
@@zzzanon woah woah where the fk did you get the polls that The Taiwanese wouldn't defend their own country?
12:33
"Taiwan's takeover by China would lead to an OPEC of semiconductors."
That's less of an argument for intervention than an argument for diversification. Too big to fail is too big. How about some semiconductor manufacturing in Canada, japan, US, Sweden, etc?
We have to load Taiwan up with equipment to defend themselves
What we need more is a constant flow of direct open criticism from the US military establishment,on the failing and corrupted military procurement and logistic system, that not only provide us with substandard kit(not even good enough for airsoft) almost no first aid medical equipment and ammo that will last for 10 minutes of fighting.
To let the Taiwanese public know that how incompetent our military is, so they can use their votes to force our corrupt politician to stop stealing our military budget.
The US loaded Ukraine up for 8+ years to fight Russia. How did that turn out?
That's one of the best ways to get Taiwan invaded
@@kevinlification wrong, people being weak will get invaded by dictator. You are ask for war now.
Look everyone. I bet this person owns lots of shares in weapons manufacturers ;-)
Peter Van Buren is truly ignorant on this particular conflict. He may be more informed on other US interventions though.
I wouldn't count on it
😢😢😢The world will suffer if these military contractors play an important role
What’s wrong with having a deterrent strategy? A deterrent is to prevent future disasters. According to Van Bure’ logic, a bank should not have a safe because it hasn’t been robbed?
It ain't our bank; let them buy a safe with their own money.
@@Standinthegap0 Taiwan is yall bank after US atomic bomb Japan twice. Now Taiwan is capable of buying safes with exchange of chips why aren't US selling??
@@Standinthegap0 I like the sentiment, but wouldn't destroying a bunch of China's equipment pay massive dividends? Kind of like destroying Russia's military right now by providing anti-tank and anti air weapons may mean we can spend less in Europe later? Maybe wishful thinking but maybe not.
Taiwan is China's bank. So why is a Westerner getting involved here?
@@Standinthegap0 What an utterly shortsighted comment. You see, we the West, rely on the produce of that bank, for the proper functioning of our societies.
If you consider the people across the Taiwan Strait to be the same and see them as "Chinese", then you are so wrong. People in China and Taiwan are raised in different ideologies and they think completely different. It is unfair to conveniently think that they are all "Chinese" and should be reunified no matter what.
Never underestimate the people of Taiwan; they are competent, free loving people and very hard working, they deserve to be fully recognized by all major powers around the world.
Actually, most Taiwanese own DNA of Austronesian peoples after centuries of intermarriage with indigenous Formosans.
@@kianono3209 Totally irrelevant to anything and everything but ok.
Emmmm... you can make the same argument about the two sides of US civil war...
@@zyilund except that Taiwan isn't the slaver side.
Am Taiwanese and I can say you're spot on. I think the debater made a huge blunder on this one.
My man is talking like Taiwan isn’t a functioning democracy intent on staying that way and the CCP isn’t a brutal totalitarian dictatorship seeking to destroy said democracy.
Edit: Peter saying Japan is no longer dependent on American defense is insane. I live in Japan and follow the national news. The Japanese government has neither the money, nor even the population, to expand its military sufficiently to deter or defend itself against China, and regarding semiconductors, it’s not “someone else would do it”; it takes several years, high levels of expertise, and billions of dollars to build even one single chip fab, and doing so in the USA or Japan is significantly more expensive than doing so in Taiwan. TSMC is currently building fabs in the US and Japan to reduce the risk to its PPE, and whether these will be cutting-edge, 2nm or smaller fabs is not unimportant either. The way he casually dismisses the significance of Taiwan and his ignorance of Japan and the chip manufacturing process and costs, are frankly astounding.
Are you aware of the enlightened remarks of Prof. Jeffrey Sachs?
Comparing post communism Russia & the biggest communist block PRC is really absurd, even their economies are not comparable nor are their global ambitions which for Russia is to be a regional hegemon & for PRC is to replace US as the global hegemon which will be quite realistic in the future.
I'm no Warhawk but I was under the impression we gave our word in a roundabout way we would without directly saying so. We have alluded to it several times through different presidencies. Realigned our military and geared towards a probable war in the South Pacific hence pivot to Asia Doctrine. War with China I believe is inevitable whether it's over Taiwan or not. Historically when one great power starts to decline because of another great power is taking over it's fate is usually sealed in a war. What's really sad is we literally paid for all the bullets and Military equipment that will be eventually used against us and still doing it today. I believe when the dollar stops being the world reserve currency is a bigger threat leading towards war then a commitment to help a partner in need
But China does not engage in wars. They have other strategies for taking over countries.
I didn't say they have, but they will eventually they have stated as much,and do military drills for it. I don't want to see War happen but I'm telling you the two biggest militaries in the world fighting for dominance on the world stage will eventually go to war and hundreds of millions of people will die. We've seen it happen over and over again throughout history especially when they start drawing red lines in the sand and announces trigger points along with massive military buildup it is almost inevitable
@J Lin oh I doubt that seriously I'm sure you and I both will be one of the hundreds of millions that would die if war was to ever break out
@@MsChitterchat For now. Show them weakness sufficient that they think they can take what they want by force, and they will. See: Hong Kong, the Uighers, and how they treat their own citizens.
@@MsChitterchat tell that to Vietnam, India, South Korea and Tibet. The CCP has always used force to get its way.
Peace through strength.- Ronald Reagan
Peace through strength; have the armaments industry arm every nation to the maximum and let them also monetize “think tanks” around the world to find justifications for using same armaments! Every neo-con since ronnie raygun!
The US is a failing Empire and has no strength left. The only thing it will achieve by flailing about like a rabid animal is speed up its fall and make it that much more disastrous.
Reagan tripled the national debt to project strength, and he waged war on American citizens, with his drug war.
Stupid debate.
US should defend its own interest.
Taiwan is vitally important to the US, both strategically and economically.
Ukraine is of no consequence.
China is a growing thereat to the US, Russia is not and cannot be. Just look at the size of the economy.
Taiwan is on official ally of the US and US has promised to defend.
US has never made any such promise to defend Ukraine.
Taiwan is a truly democratic state.
Ukraine is a fascist state where critics of the government disappear. If they are seen again, it is only their tortured dead body that's found.
Finally in Taiwan virtually nobody wants to live under CCP rule.
In Donbas and Crimea the overwhelming majority is pro-Russian.
I’ve not watched it yet. If the debate does not consider the consequence of a takeover then it’s a weak fanciful discussion. What would Reason folk or the world think of Japan, Australia, S Korea all acquiring nuclear weapons? Because if China takes the island, more nuclear weapons in more countries becomes very likely, and they will be tested. If I lived in 1/3 I’d want them.
What has Chinese acquisition of republic of China gotta do with jp,sk,aus having to go nuclear? Is taiwan somehow related to their own invasion?
@@sjhassjh3941 The people of Taiwan call themselves what they are, an independent, democratic people. They don’t want to be enslaved and brutalized people as was Tibet, as was Hong Kong, as are the Uyghurs. Logically then, other Pacific nations would be prudent to take action to resist the same treatment by a state that is by action expansionist and brutal. As was disclosed in the video, the Chinese military has stated the seizure of Taiwan would make a blockade of Japan much more feasible.
@@Nill757 what do you mean same treatement by a state after typing some stuff about regions in China from what you read in CIA media,is China supposed to invade those nations after taiwan?
@@sjhassjh3941 Regions in China? Tibet did not use to be a region in China. I don’t need Media to know that. I saw the million people protesting Chinese takeover in Hong Kong, nobody told me. I heard testimony of dozens of Uighur survivors, didn’t read about them from CIA.
And yes I notice your habit of waiving away every takeover as “region” of China, that Taiwan is a the “Chinese Republic”, like I notice that all the waters off the Philippines and off Vietnam are now declared by Chinese Navy as Chinese waters for fishing and drilling. Get lost
@@Nill757 ? How did u know tibet didnot use to be china ? Was your nation even a nation back then?
Millions protest chinese takeover? Lol 😆 🤣
You heard testimony not on cia media? Where did you hear the cia paid testimony if not on cia media?
Why need for debate when the Truth is out there?
One China Confucion :
1. ROC founder was Sun Yat Sen. He ruled china until rebels kicked him/ chiang out of mainland and he escaped to occupy taiwan.
To ROC, Mainland BELONGS to Taiwan ROC.
2. To China, TW belongs to PRC. But PRC not for 1 day ever occupied taiwan.
One China : Same same, but different. English is not accurate like science. Its merely an art form😅 thats why you can flip the prata.
In a nutshell, One China is Two Kinds of China. Not ONE. One is actually Two. Art is all about the Possibilities . Quantum mechanics may apply. Art allows for oral masturbation.
Just to add for fun : North Korea uses the word Korea in its name. South Korea also has Korea in its name. Are they the same ? No. NKorea is clearly not SKorea. Likewise, TW is not china and vice versa. A name is nothing but a name. PRC China is not Republic of China.
Copyrights to Dave BakChoy
I absolutely love these long-form debates. Thank you Reason and the Soho Forum!
One of the most dubious lines that politicians or some PR-trained debaters love to put out is that Taiwan is a vibrant democracy. But the existence of ballot box voting doesn't translate into democracy.
Taiwan may have its ballot box suffrage system, but it is not any democracy, for Tsai Ing-wen just blatantly shut down the Television station that refused to go along with the lies her regime and her wanted to dupe the people with.
A real democracy would not need to make as "top secret and NOT to be declassified till the year of 2049" the so-called Ph.D. Dissertation that Tsai Ing-wen was supposed to have completed and presented to the Committee at LSE for the Ph.D. she was supposed to have officially received at LSE. And when some professors tried to seek the truth as to the fishy Ph.D. Dissertation and the Ph.D. degree, Tsai Ing-wen had the prosecutor launch the persecution with judicial instrumentality, indicting one of the professors seeking the truth with "defamation" and issuing a universal arrest warrant based on that so-called defamation charge.
Every resident in Taiwan and everyone who has visited Taiwan know for fact how the regime head Tsai Ing-wen won in 2020 her so-called election by massive vote rigging to claim receiving 8.17 million votes, hence the magic number 817.
Also everyone knows the Tsai Ing-wen regime misappropriates 14.50 million dollars from the budget supposed to be used by the Council of Agriculture to hire trolls to launch all sorts of propaganda over the Internet, hence another magic number 1450, standing for the online trolls Tsai Ing-wen hired with taxpayers' money.
The US wouldn't know soft power if it didn't slap it in the face.
Russia and Ukraine and China and Taiwan are two different things.
Taiwan isn’t killing 15000 Chinese in the last 9 years nor blocking water, gas, electricity, pensions and banking for just as long as Ukraine has been doing. So what would make China want to use force unless keeps provoking it past its red lines
What has US to do with Taiwan? The US war mongers should stay out of otherwise countries and better care about their own people. Not killing people, but competition on an economic and technologi al basis in favour of all humanity should be the answer of USA.
Uuuh. We have this thing called a treaty. The Sino-American treaty. So, yes.
you mean the Taiwan Relations Act. The Sino American Treaty was invalidated by the Three US-China communiques
@@texajp9744 oh poop, now I gotta reevaluate and re-educate myself. Thanks!
Wow there's a lot of warhawk r€+ards in the comments here
Correction : based individuals who understand the importance of defending liberty
Go find something else to complain about Nevil chamberlain .
It's really gross.
@@herotrueblue5704 that's the lamest shit I've ever heard.
I would bet that most people in this comment section including me don't live in Taiwan and do not have to wake up every day wondering if CCP ships are going to be on the horizon. Ukrainians are picking up pieces of their children in the street. Defend Taiwan.
hindsight is a wonderful thing........ just not very helpful. its so easy to say 'i told you so'.
NO
💔💔💔You may think the citizens have to support whatever your government is saying or doing. They demand your patriotism. However, it is logical for one to contemplate whether such blind patriotism may be putting your own life at risk.
A large sum of your tax money is siphoned off annually for military interventions around the globe overlooking the plight of the people, such as universal healthcare and slums that are rising at an alarming rate.
Most Americans want a war with China over Taiwan. And it seems they have never learned any lesson from the Korean war, Vietnam, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. The idiocy here is that most Americans still think they are the good guys when their government has killed the most human beings in history.
Most Taiwanese want to maintain the status quo they have been maintaining for decades. It's mostly the extremists led by the present ruling elites of Taiwan backed and fueled by the US that wanted to separate from China.
Do they think there wouldn't be any repercussions? When bombs, missiles, and nuclear bombs start landing in their backyards, their arrogance, their guns, their military, and their president cannot help them.
In such a scenario, you are alone. Your beloved guns are up to no good; your military and your president cannot save you from a blast.
Therefore, it is logical for anyone with reason to speak up against the warmongering drums fueled by Western media and the Military Industrial Complex.
War only benefits the elites. It puts the lives of the people at risk. Mark my words, the US government is determined to make Taiwan the next Ukraine.
But you say nothing because you are already drowned in hatred and fear by your own propaganda. One day, very soon, the American people will have to face the repercussions.
And that's why every reasonable person should raise their voice against the endless war activities of the US before it's too late. The Military Industrial Complex is driving the USA. And only you and only you can stop it. Stop it before it's too late.
💔💔💔
@Chang JungChia If you are a Taiwanese, you are being used as a tool for US interest. Taiwan will become a battlefield then what?
Can someone help with this question: What should China do so that USA will treat China as a friend but not an enemy?
Lol nothing it makes it’s own enemies it’s a warmongering colonialist for a reason
Very simple. China must remain a producer of low end products to help keep inflation down in America. China must not invest in advanced technology to compete with America. China must promise to be subservient to America and pursue "America First" policies. Simple, isn't it?
Peter has a very strong argument. America just need to curb its urge to meddle with other courty's businesses!
Can someone help me find the quote, that is something like,
you can't make someone see that is pretending to be blind
Inven Heck no I’m too old and My Sons not Going and My Blood is mix 6 Millions American Muslim
1) Why does he think that "since it hasn't happened yet" is a good indicator of whether or not it could happen?
2) why does it matter how many us bases there are? The difference is nobody wants Chinese bases but many, but not all, countries are happy having US bases simply because of the defence capabilities, support, and regional stability it brings even if they don't like the Americans.
3) he says nothing will change if we stay out of it yet doesn't reply to the semiconductor supply issue?
4) the debate isn't whether or not China has economic interests in Taiwan and USA, It's whether the US should defend if China DOES invade. So it doesn't matter if the Chinese believe and told him "it could happen in 1000s of years".
1 2:27
2 17:44
Wouldn't be surprised if Van Buren was taking some dirty money from somewhere.
Yes deterence seems to be ok but what did the US do (deterence) to prevent the
War in ukraine now pls reply
No.
I doubt either of these men are remotely familiar with the prophacies toward the end of the book of Revelations concerning Persia, Megog: the Prince of Rus and Kyve to the north called Gog, 2000 years ago or the Kings of the East: China is far east of Israel. All leading a great invasion force to the valley of Megiddo overlooked by the Golan heights to the west. A battle where some weapons can incinerate a mans flesh from his bones before hitting the ground. Its cryptic do to the passing of time in our modern age and the lack of knowledge of ancient history by most westerners.
Solid BS from start to finish!
sometimes when i drop a sock when taking the laundry upstairs i often realize trying to pick up the sock could really set me back. so i now do smaller loads and don't drop socks. think how to minimize errors because you once made them. i have implicitly saved myself from a back surgery and costing myself health care of $100,000 by not bending over to pick up the sock a second time.
Should China deploy nuclear missiles in Cuba?
second guy is obviously a chinese propagandist
We Japan 🇯🇵 are with you Taiwan 🇹🇼
You're the main reason they're in Taiwan in the first place. Had it not been for Japan's invasion of the mainland which crippled the KMT they wouldn't have lost the civil war and had to flee to Taiwan. You're the root cause of their problems and most Taiwanese old enough to remember despise Japan for it.
China Has New Chip and America can not get hands On new Chip
#TAIWANLANDistZUKUNFT
No questions aksed dammit
I would personally reenlist in the US Air Force Reserves if China ever invaded Taiwan! This way, the Chinese are less likely to invade, particularly after the Ukraine fiasco. I am generally non-interventionist, and I have SEEN the fraud, waste and abuse in the US military. And I recommend that the military spending be cut to about 1/4th of it's current levels. It would be just as effective too! At least 1/4th of current spending!
What you mean “after” Ukrain?
@@vortechta00 the Russians have lost a lot of men to the invasion. He honestly thought that the Russians would be welcomed as liberators, but it turns out that when someone threatens your newfound freedom, people would rather die than continue to live in a communist sh*thole!
Your joining after a Chinese invasion would lower the probability of the Chinese invasion and would somehow work well with the 75% decrease in military spending? Do you even hear yourself?
@@Standinthegap0 I serve because SOMEONE has to. I would rather go than to have some draftee serving against his/her will. And the 75% is the BARE MINIMUM that the defense budget should be reduced. If they were to simply double the total number of reservists/national guardsmen they could spend 1/10th of the money on defense! Almost everyone agrees that we need an Army, I simply feel that their is a lot of waste!
@@Standinthegap0 LOL. I don't think he understands your criticism or how ridiculous he sounds.
"I would personally reenlist... this way the Chinese are less likely to invade..."
Chuck Womack thinks he is Lian Neeson in a Taiwanese production of Rambo.
Taken: China. Starring Chucky Womack.