The Top 5 Important Lessons I've Learned After Owning This GMT-400 Suburban For 6 Months!
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
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After owning this Suburban for 6-months, here are the top 5 things I've learned!
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#GMC #Suburban - Авто та транспорт
The 1996-2005 GM full size trucks, (pre-cylinder deactivation), had by today's standards under worked and over built power trains. Most small shops in America's heartland can keep them running for 300,000 miles.
Between my father and I, we've had 6 of these trucks, all to over 300k miles each.
Even the gmt800's are really good overall. Cylinder deactivation is a fixable problem before it becomes an issue
I had a 96 2 door tahoe, unfortunately got rid of it, it was at 280k miles when I sold it and still actually ran like it was new. Even the engine after a good detail actually looked brand new. The only thing that gave away the miles was the paint, the thing didn't even have a spec of rust. I also had a lifted 2001 silverado which was much of the same story, got rid of it at 225k miles. My experience with ford wasn't the same. 01 Excursion with 170k, had it for two months before the spark plugs decided to shoot out the engine, exhaust manifolds cracked, tranny started slipping and all the other issues as well. Soon enough I'll be getting another GMT4/800 but gas prices have to go down lol.
@@hitempguy 99+ *are* GMT800s in half ton ( 2002+ above half ton are GMT800s)
I own 3 gen 1 vortec C1500 and a K1500 all with over 300k and minimal maintenance
I'm currently driving my 1996 2500 burb with 275k. Needs some love but runs strong.
Lets just say it now any GM truck prior to the ACTIVE FUEL MANAGEMENT were and still are the best.
I have a 2014 Silverado and I beat the crap out of it!! 138,000 trouble free miles!!
Rocking my 08 6.2 Yukon without afm.
GMT 800 will go down as best ever
@@FirstLast-we8cb Same, my 2007 6.2 Yukon Denali nearly 200k miles without afm stock. Still going strong and loving it, but the gas prices and mileage definitely hurt.
anything built before 08 when gm went bankrupt was great and only got better each generation up until then. the the 08 collapse happened and they got bailed out and have built junk ever since. its not the same gm we all used to love. my cummins swapped 98 suburban is a great truck i can fix myself and gets 20+ mpg and will haul anything i own. ive had suburbans for over 13 years
Have a 96 with 320k on it and climbing, and it's a 6.5 turbo getting 20 -22 mpg, also just picked up a 1994 3500 cab chassis 4*4 with 100k that was built as a tacoma mountain rescue truck for the state of washing. Was an epic find. Gotta love the 90s!
1998 gmc with a 5.7 here.
I just replaced all the seals hoses and gaskets with 250,000 miles. Everyone said just replace the motor. I unfriended them.
The barn doors can be swung fully open, when you release the catch. Also, the Tahoes have the spare tire underneath. Great trucks.
My Tahoe has the spare in the trunk/rear area not underneath
I love my 1995 Sierra. Parts are cheap and back yard mechanics can work on them. Value is going up.
I used to drive my 99 Suburban with 200K+ miles on it regularly between Toronto and Westchester County NY. All highways I usually got 17. It was great.
GM made great trucks in the 90s. I have a 96 C1500 5.7 and a 90 Suburban 7.4. Both very cheap to maintain, and lots of smiles per gallon!
My 99 GMC K1500 has 150k on it. One transmission (bell housing too weak to support towing) front brakes are too small, one fuel pump and fuel injectors, too. Very comfortable to drive, 15 to the gallon and the A/C system just started to leak. Barn doors are fun, fits a 4x8 sheet of plywood flat on the deck. Next big repair and it goes to charity, but until then I will continue to love it.
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How many gallons per mile on that 7.4L?
@@vinny9988 14 mpg (imperial gallons) which is about 11 US mpg, in the Suburban. I’ve now sold it and bought a 2000 Silverado 4.8 - much easier on the wallet
@richardmcgrath61 you could replace the air filter and fuel filter to wix and throw some lucas in the tank you could maybe get 16 to 17 but yeah easier on the wallet I had a 96 1500 5.0 2wd 297m on it it's dead now with a electrical problem but I had awful gas mileage with a regular air an fuel filter until I changed them
GMT-400 are the greatest trucks ever built.
800 is superior... I love both. I'm just busting your balls but after owning both the 800 is superior. I've had five 400s and 3 800s... In one F-150 1987... And I and I had a 2017 Silverado so I've had a lot and let me tell you that 2017 was the biggest pile of crap.. it blew the transmission at 81,000 mi. I told them to come get it and now I'm back in a 2002 Yukon. Never been happier
@@Mikey-wf9py Yep. The 1999-2006 GM trucks were more reliable.
I have had my 1997 Tahoe 4wd for 22 years! I love it. Rear ends are weak upgraded to the 14 bolt out of the 3/4 tons. And I’ve gone thru 3 transmissions. I finally upgraded it with 4l70 internals. Hopefully that will be better. I still love the truck though
ahh the good ol 90's chevy transmissions some are good some are bad its a roll of the dice lolol
After a long search, I finally found a 96 GMC K2500 Suburban with a 454 with just under 100,000 miles;
I am thrilled. I'm flying out to pick it up and spending four days driving it back. Road trip!
Nice
How you liking it ?
Thanks for asking. I mostly love it. It needed more work than I expected, but it’s coming along nicely. The VCM (formerly called the ECU) was bad, which caused several issues including the transmission not shifting properly. Turns out the trans needed a rebuild anyway, so I had that done. I also had it repainted, and it looks great. I’ve been towing a 5500 lb camper with it.
88-98 GM trucks are one of the best generations. 100% parts compatibility between GMC and Chevy, looks were pretty good, and parts are STILL mostly available. Easy to work on, and relatively inexpensive overall, insofar as cost of ownership. As long as you do your part, this generation will always get you home. I do love my Fords, but I will absolutely give a nod to the 88-98 gen of GM trucks/SUV's.
Almost correct in interchangeability. 88-94 are 100% and 95-98 are 100% thier are small differences between the two like the grill has a slightly diffrent angle on the sides and mount difrently. This makes the front fenders have a diffrent angle at the front where grill meet. They will bolt up but will have diffrent gaps
My first time steering a moving truck was my grand father's 91' 5 speed Cheyenne with a carbureted 350 swap in the field behind his house. My dad in the passenger seat, me in papa's lap steering the wheel :) Dad had a 77' C10 RCSB 3 speed /350 and then a black 90' RCLB 700r4/305 when I was a kid. My first truck was a 90' RCLB Seirra SLE 2WD R4/350... Full exhaust and 3.73's :) Almost died quite a few times, but have so many hippie like memories as a late teen with my high school sweet heart... That truck kept me grounded in a way. Kept me wanting to adventure. Be out doors. And NEVER missed a beat... R.I.P Little Red :(
I love my 98 K1500, great trucks and platform in general. Just got finished restoring it and it’s awesome. I’m also getting pretty decent milage at 16-19 mpg.
I have a 1999 1/2 ton 2 wd. Suburban with 193500 miles. I am the 2nd owner since 2004
I love this truck, and it's my 3rd one. It rides like a cloud and works like a dog. I will keep it as long as I can.
I’ve got an ‘04 Burb with 193k miles and still drives great and shifts smooth. AC still
Blows ice cold. Needs a few things here and there but nothing major.
Amen. I also have a 99 c1500 suburban. Bought her for $600 at a scrapyard with 205k on the ticket. Have done a lot mechanically. From head gaskets to cosmetics. Have her to the point where I can get her registered and start using her. Love the obs platform.
Would like to see one of these videos from Andre and Nathan on their experience with the vehicles they chose. Keep up the good work, really enjoy all the TFL content.
Had a 88 Scottsdale k2500 for my first truck. Was great but started to rust here on the east coast. Bought a 97 Silverado k1500 new. Still have it. Both had the 350. I bought a used 2016 Sierra Z71 extended cab for more room. The others were regular cab but I am up in the air about letting go of the 97. I can see the difference in the two and still enjoy the 97
I just won a 1999 K1500 Suburban with 117,000 miles on it from Bringatrailer and it's been awesome so far. No issues in the month of so of owning it and looking forward to having it a long time.
Love these old ‘90s GM trucks! I drive my ‘93 Chevy stepside truck and has been running strong with relatively low issues and has been running strong with 207K Miles on the clock.
I have a ‘93 Chevy Silverado 5.7L TBI with over 200,000 miles, bought it in 2000, had to have transmission rebuilt & new fuel pump, truck is still going strong plus easier to work on when needed
love love love my 1999 tahoe, the paint delaminates (painted in mexico with poor water based paint and clear), have two sets of tires, fuel pump and sending unit went bad, has some rust on drums, but bullet proof, kids call it daddys big car, they love it too!!!
My dad had one. And I basically grew up in it. It was a 99. And he built it. with a 6 inch lift on 35. It was an awesome truck. And he sold it in 2015. And ever since then, I've been wanting to track it down and find it. Because it was the best truck he ever owned. I loved how comfortable it was on long rides and how reliable it was. It was just overall a great rig. The only thing is I don't know if it's in a junk yard or not cause supposedly. My dad said that the Vin number doesn't exist. No more So I've been looking around UA-cam on junk Yard videos just to see if I could find it and I haven't. So I honestly don't know. But I know 1 day I will find it.
Couldn't agree more. I also have a 99 except it's the Chevy. The color and engine and all is pretty much the same as your GMC. The other exception is that I have the cloth seats. Super comfortable. I travel all over the place with it. Love using it for camping. People always comment on the comfort of the ride.
The 'barn doors' are handy, especially when you are transporting 6 people, their gear and weapons . . . . we had them in the Air Force and used them to deploy out to launch control facilities.
Just did a 900 mile round trip vacation ride to OBX from NJ in our 2004 GMC Yukon Denali. Saw a TON of 400 & 800 series still on the roads. Especially the further South we got.
Easy to work on and maintain. Very reliable. Drives like you are sitting in a Lazy Boy!! What's not too like!?
Would LOVE to pick up an 800 series RCSB (Regular Cab Short Bed) step side truck. Maybe once prices return to reality.
My 2004 Silverado 5.3 has 340k still going strong
I've owned my 99 GMC Suburban for over a decade and it's been quite enjoyable. Yes, it's a gas hog and has its quirks, but the dang thing is a tank that only 1 person has been stupid enough to challenge; and it did not end well for her Honda Pilot. I'll keep putting money into it as long as the body panels stay intact. Yeah, rust is starting to get the better of me.
I've got a 97 GMC suburban 2500 with a 454 and 4l80 love it
Wanna say it's as long as tht 72' Mercury Monterey from the other day I seen!!! 400 cu in!! Awesome video Tommy!! You Rock TFL!!!😃
I love my 05’ Z71 Tahoe. Best looking of the lot IMO. With a new one going for 75k $ , I’ll be keeping mine. I upgraded to a modern sound system and it’s as good as a 2022 anyway. . Heck , even the gas mileage is the same ! 😄
Same bro!
It’s nuts how the gas mileage is the same
I have a 91 Sierra XL with a 5 liter 305 at 280,000ish on the odometer. Still pulling strong. Wouldn't even ponder the thought of selling it.
A couple of things you need to watch out for with the newer GMT-400’s: intake manifold gaskets on the small block motors are notorious for failing. Always go with the AC Delco fuel pumps or you’ll be dealing with a ton of grief.
Still more reliable than a new truck of any brand...
Ac delco or Delphi nothing else
@@chuckschob107 damn straight!!
Some people learn the hard way...
@@chuckschob107 I put in a Delphi in a Chevy van - same year, same engine. Didn’t put out enough fuel pressure to get the damn thing to start. Fuel pumps aren’t a job you want to tackle more than once. With GM, I personally stick with AC Delco. I’ve got a local parts dealer which specializes in AC Delco and Ford Motorcraft parts, which is way cheaper than the local dealerships (or as I call them stealerships).
TBI blocks didn't have the manifold gasket issues.
My 2003 Suburban is getting rusty but it's still a very nice ride. Comfortable, ac cold.
We took my cousins 93 suburban mudding and had water come up all the way up the hood multiple times and still didn’t turn off but he did put it through hell but still runs good
That truck was likely built in my home town and possibly by my father, the plant here made 17,000,000 vehicles from 1923-2009 and I’d love to own one someday.
My dad had a 98 Tahoe. Awesome truck, wish I still had it.
I have a 1999 suburban and it has 32.5 gallon tank and gets 24 Mile's to the gallon it's a tank and love it
Loved our 97 Tahoe back in the early 2000’s.
Holey!!! You bought this in December?? Time flies!
They are pretty good trucks for sure.
The barn doors are far more convenient than the gate on these GMT400 SUV's. The tailgate version is just like a pickup, folds down and the glass goes up. With the tailgate folded down its harder to get things out of the back of the rig.
Ohh good point
Never thought about that
Not that much harder and the tailgate can add to the length of an item you could put in even if it stuck out like a pickup. Also tail light guards are more effective on the tailgate style.
My dad has a 01 Silverado with the 4.8 L 310K + on her and she still runs perfect.
I currently drive a 2017 Titan XD with the Cummins. But I still have my old 94 3/4 Diesel suburban ready to go if I need it. And thanks to an inexpensive battery tender. It’s ready to go if I need it.
I just got my childhood dream truck. Navy blue 2000 tahoe z71 early model. Love it
Yes! The junkyard trucks with the barn doors are always locked. You have to crawl back there, rip the door panel off, and unlock it from inside.
I feel this same way about the GMT900… the 2008-14 SilverTahoeBurbanKon!
Love my 97 Yukon SLT with only 125k miles best gm truck/suv platform ever
I like the "winch" screwed to the license plate holder...NICE...
yea the 99 is the best year the interior of the early 2000's but the exterior and drivetrain of the 90's such a sweet combo i have the 99 tahoe fun fact the slave unit cd player IS A BLESSING you can split into it with a toggle switch and and use things like your phone or whatever else you want to go into the head unit and play things through your speakers just toggle to whatever output you want click cd player on the head unit and boom now you got modern stereo comforts
I had same Burb for years. Always wanted to see an Ike run with like 5k hooked onto it. I think y’all oughtta do that for all 3 from “go big” before selling off…just my $0.02.
Love my 1999 dodge. The mid-late 90's 4x4's are great in my opinion. I'm in college and nothing else can perform the same for as cheap. Parts are cheap enough I've been able to restore it some. Who cares what the mileage is if a new truck is 30-40k and mine was 5k lol.
There is a white sticker in barn door hinge area. > 'To open door fully: have door open part way. Then pull check strap at white mark and swing door open. Both rear doors work the same way. See Owner's Manual for more information.'
Bought my 97 Tahoe in 2005; never saw this sticker or knew doors did this until recently after viewing a UA-cam video that mentioned this. Both doors will extend almost straight outward. [4dr, 4wd, barn doors, 5.7, 125k miles]
Agreed with fuel pump and I have two in my 09 HD. Carry cheap spare on those trips to Idaho and CO. Amazon cheapos do weird things,but I put in access panels. Got stuck in a Sonic drive thru in Victorville. Only good thing our service truck was there and pushed me out. Plus being Sunday did not help. Oh 6.0 iron block no AFM, and no throttle cable kind of bugs me. Still prefer the older ones new ones are real flimsy. Plus no fold down armrest takes a toll after a 1000 miles.
I have the identical suburban. Only difference is I have a tailgate and liftglass back window!
I own one now and I love it!
Just purchase a 95 Tahoe in mint condition full package I'm looking forward to it mileage is high but it still got good performance.5'7
The barn doors are awesome when you need to load your suburban (or a tahoe) with a forklift.
Love my ‘97 2 door Tahoe LT Z71. The paint is crap but the truck is bulletproof.
Best trucks ever!! I love my 99 Tahoe
After a disaster with a 2010 Silverado turd and a 2017 Silverado that needed a couple injectors at 16k and had electrical problems and transmission issues. Went to an eco beast and couldn’t be happier. Never Chinese gm crap again. Old stuff was so great it’s sad.
when in 90's blazers/tahoes u go by this rule.. when in doubt, throttle out and you'll hardly ever get stuck..
I have the identical suburban, and I love it,
Would love to see a classics series with Tommy @ Kase “restoring” a 90s GM pickup
I have a GMC Yukon 2004 with 295,000 miles.
I love the GMT400 and GMT800 Suburbans.
I have a 99 Chevy Express with the 57 and it is great
I'm on my 3rd late 90s Suburban K1500. The other two made it to about 300k before I chose to replace them, still running well, with a low mileage (~100k) refresh. It IS my roadtrip machine. Plenty of room in back for a super padded sleeping zone. I never bear the expense of a hotel room. One important thing I have learned about these machines: between 160k and 200k they will need a few things. New fuel injection, timing gears, timing chain, radiator, water pump, serpentine belt, belt tensioning pully, plugs, plug wires, distributor, power door lock actuators, possible instrument panel. Sounds like a lot? Compared with monstrous car payments, it is a bargain. I measure maintenance expense by how many car payments it avoids. Considering that these beasts are good for ~300k, a round of heavy maintenance is a bargain.
LOVE MY 96 AND 97 TAHOES
I am on my third Suburban, and I know that I well could still be driving the first one. The dealers cheat you on a trade in. They double the trade in price (at least) when the resale them. Many owners drive them for many years and miles. The new ones cost a mint.
Nothing like those 90s gm latches and door handles.. I have a 95 Tahoe that’s been 5 speed swapped and the driver side exterior handle is broke. Dad owned plenty of these trucks and boy did he change a lot of door handles.
I'm putting a Truetrac in my '93 Z71 pickup. The G80 is burned out. Eventually, I'd like to get one in the front too.
is that active fuel management cylinder deactivation something like with Jeep or Lincoln?
Is it that bad?
Perfect all around vehicle!
I have a 92 k1500 5 speed manual. I bought it to use as a daily driver and restore it as I drive it eventually getting another daily driver, but I rebuilt the one door guts,rotors etc...just put a fuel pump in now I have no power anywhere in the truck, that plus other little issues I'm pretty sure the truck is done and it has me REALLY depressed
best trucks ever- you can keep your toyotas , nissans whatever- too bad they dont make they seats anymore and love the cargo doors !!
I'd recommend the 2002-2005 GMC Yukon XL. It has the 5.3L with no cylinder deactivation and is really bullet proof.
Those were actually the 1999-2006. In 2007 was when active fuel management started.
We have an 2004 suburban and it has over 283000k miles on the original 4l60e transmission in it. Engines been replaced but the transmission Is still going strong. This transmission is bullet proof for me lll
They are good transmission!!
Nobody maintains them..
@@philllsxga.7737 True. I'm sure it helps that this wasn't used for heavy towing.
@@cddog1995 I beat the crap out of my old truck with a 4L60, 252,000 miles and not one problem.
I changed the transmission fluid four times..
I bought a 2000 Ram 1500. Transmission went out at 233,000 miles. Fluid was likely changed once and when they did. The donut magnet in the bottom of the pan was removed. The transmission bands were never adjusted. Poor thing failed from neglect. I fixed it myself. Chevy transmissions fail more than any other brand in my experience. Google used to confirm. Depending on model, it might be GM's crap design or just a lack of maintenance from the owner. Always amazed to meet a person with anything that gets proper maintenance.
@@philllsxga.7737 well I can't confirm that the fluid wasn't changed until after 200,000 miles I think its been in the family since under 20,000 miles and if i recall correctly my father claims to never have changed the transmission fluid... or maybe he did? I don't remember lol. so who knows. The fluid was pretty good looking maybe dark.
I think I changed the transmission fluid and filter between 215,000 and 220,000 miles. It had some small pieces in it but nothing large. Probably from getting thrown into like park while moving or something.
Still runs good today but I think my transfer case is either going or has issues with the shift encoder motor or something.
Thats one of my Choice for a college car
The gas mileage is terrible but I do miss mine 1999 4x4 454 Barn door dual AC three row seats best comfortable ride able to tow a forklift no problem comfortably on a long trip
My 91 z71 has no power started missing at idle turns out the timing chain was loose theirs another thought everyone kept saying fuel pump, Egr valve, coolant sensor, dizzy ,plugs and wires
Never close a car hood from the side. Always press down on the center of the hood.
Especially the GMT400 series hoods. They distort pretty easily, usually at the hinge location...just a kink. I think they needed a couple more body lines in that area or a heavier gauge sheet metal.
i love these cars so much i own 5 of them
I have a GMC Yukon 1999 all the way from Belize no part's
I’m a lot older than you, I’m showing a little ware also lol, but still going also. New vehicles are built cheap, sold way to high. New ones get better gas mileage, but how much money do you save if it’s in the repair shop all of the time
I want one of those when I’m older
i used to see this generation of chevy/gmc trucks all the time, i cant speak on them but i feel like its a hit and miss on the 4l60e, on one hand bought my dads 2000, only 2 years old at the time he got and me and my brother both beat the hell out of it and it now has over 250k on it with only the rear end going out on it, on the other hand i bought his other 2005 silverado with 200k on it, both have the 5.3, i had to (by myself being the good son i am) practically replace the transmission at the time he still owned it, maybe 170k or 180k
I love my gmt 800 man. It’s a gas hog but such a great truck
GMT-400s are probably my favorite bodystyle truck. I’d probably lean to the 800s for SUVs however.
Anyways those era trucks were just awesome. I’d love to have a 454SS truck. I also think the crew cab 3500 dually is just as awesome. The cool thing about the duallies is they made them right up through the 2000 model year.
Those were all great trucks though. The Vortec engines were introduced in the 1996 model year and they were definitely power houses for their time.
🎵Step into my burban,it’s as big as a whale and it’s about to set sail!…”🎵
I call next to the redhead...shes purdy
is the tbid infomercial going to be in every video?
Had a 92 GMC 1500 suburban. Transmission was the only rebuild that was needed.
At what mileage was it rebuilt?
60-70k range.
It was at least 6 years old at that time also.
@@dicbrew Really?? Did it have a hard life though?
No not at all. It was mainly in town and highway mileage. Was used off-road quite a few times. It failed towing a small u-haul trailer up the Baker grade on South I-15. It was a great truck! It did have its faults though. Mine also went through quite a few alternators.
The barn doors are useless compared to the tailgate versions which give you the ability to haul 10 ft lumber on the highway. The barn doors block the tail lights unlike the tailgate which lowers.
What is the orange and white tape for?
I love this truck and really wish you had done more with it. Not even an old vs new comparison?
Is that winch bolted to a license plate holder?
Should try some brake pressure while doing trenches.
Other than intake gaskets/"Dexkill", sticking spider injectors, fuel pumps, door bushings and abused transmissions, these are about as solid as it gets. And as with any older vehicle, you will more than likely have to deal with oil leaks, worn out front ends, worn out A/C compressors, rust, rotting belts, etc.
1987-1995 models with TBI engines are simpler and more reliable, but less powerful. The Vortec 5700 put out 255 horsepower and 330 lb./ft of torque when new, whereas the TBI 5.7 only put out around 210 hp and 300 lb./ft of torque. But on the upside, you could get a 5-speed NV3500, which helps. The Vortec 5.7 was only available with the 4L60E (on half-tons), unfortunately.
Don't forget about the L30 5.0 vortec
So easy to modify.
Pulled my TBI 350 out, bored it .020 over, flat top pistons, Comp 212/218 ~.450 lift XE cam, Vortec 906 heads from CCH, Edelbrock dual plane Performer RPM intake, custom 46mm TB unit with 18lb spring and Vortec fuel pump, custom tune, mid length headers.
Easy enough to build myself as a first timer after I got the short block back from the machine shop. Haven't dyno'd it yet but I know I'm putting out more power/torque than the factory Vortecs.
.. if my amateur ass can do it, anyone can.
Got one just like it. Same year same color scheme.
Not perfect but a great vehicle.
Don’t make em like they used to.
THEY MALT THEM MUCH BETTER AND SAFER !! TODAY!
I was a mechanic in the early 2000s when all these barges were starting to accumulate serious millage. Yes, the engines are very reliable. You will however replace fuel pumps more often than you replace headlight bulbs and the extremely failure prone chassis pretty much needs something every time you look at it. It'll just start steering more and more sloppy until there's 4" of freeplay in the steering and you need to replace everything at once. When you own it for more than six months these things all become apparent, although by now its possible AC Delco has invented a more reliable fuel pump.The amazing thing is that the alternatives from Ford and Chrysler are even WORSE! :)
They cruise awesomely, undenied, and the factory stereos are the best. As a family car though, which is what GM was pushing them as by 99, they are a HORRIBLY unsafe gas guzzling, road hogging, and all too confidence inducing wallet draining pieces of crap. Its amazing to me that anyone would be nostalgic for such foolishness. These things never should have left the farm.
I love that style of Ike Gauntlet shirt, where can I get it??
Just love them
what most people don't understand is American cars and truck in the 50s, 60s 70s were catering to the changing the style and throwing away the old planned obsolescent if you're going to change your vehicle in two or even every one year why should the vehicle last longer, most would only if you took care of them, however in the 80s that line of thinking started to change