A great topic that I hope stimulates lots of conversation and views. For fans of the industry, I want to recommend 2 books to get, read and understand: "The Men Who Loved Trains" by Rush Loving, Jr and "My Life With Trains: Memoir Of A Railroader" by Jim McClellan. In a twist, both books detail the state of the RR industry up to the Conrail takeover by NS and CSX. But more importantly, both books are about seeing and making RR history through the life and eyes of one man, Jim McClellan, the vice president of Strategic Planning for Norfolk Southern. The constant that Loving points out in his book is that there were leaders in the industry who loved the Railroad in a way we as fans might relate to. In PSR under the Harrison model, you have to have a ruthless love for profits before your railroad cause you sold your soul to wall street and the hedge fund you are fronting. We see it in those monster trains and that DPU in the middle that prePSR, was running a separate train with a separate crew whom supported separate families with that job. Or the hundreds of locos that NS sent to the deadlines, which in turn, put more pressure on those operating locomotives in service. Think I'm off base? Check out the burn marks on those GE engines going around the Horseshoe Curve these days, indicative of turbo fires. The laying off of many Juniata Locomotive Service shop cause good programs designed to put more life into servicable classes of engines were just scuttled by the new NS administration and Power Management Desk. I think the last man who subscribed to Loving's idea of loving the railroad was NS boss Wick Moorman. Since his retirement, Squires was forced to toe the wall street line. Ron Batory, the man getting grilled there is the head of the FRA. A good railroad man. But he too was caught up in squeezing profits when as the head of Conrail Shared Assets, his railroad in South Jersey did away with the Pavonia Yard Hump and ever since then, Harrison was paying mind, as first he and now, all of them, have idled yard humps. And with it, those jobs are lost forever. All for the never ending quest of keeping wall street investors fed.
What are the alternatives? Despite scores of billions in subsidies Amtrak still runs in the red and will for the foreseeable future. Should we nationalize freight lines too and put them on the middle class’s back? How do RR’S Attract investors without returns. How do we compete when an objective observer can readily believe that most of our political and corporate “leaders” are really working for China. Believe what you will but sane people should be able to agree that the last thing the situation needs is self-enriching interference from DC.
I second this recommendation. I have read "The Men who loved Trains" and have to say it is very much an eye opening book. I know that McClellan also loved the railroads and can speak to the problems and solutions that have been taken.
I've said it before, I'mma say it gain. Bean-counting has *NO* place in the railroad industry. All it leads to is strife and fat pocketed Wall Street types getting happy at the expense of everyone else.
It they're just idling hump yards the jobs aren't exactly loss forever they're just not utilizing them for the time being I just hope everyone doesn't do like csx and get rid of em and think oh shit we might still need that.
I used to work for the railroad. My typical week started Monday with a call at 1 pm for a 3 pm start. We would finally highball around 430 or 5. 75% of the time, we would reach our destination at or around 2 am, 25% we would outlaw within 5 miles of the yard. Winter it got worse. We would finally get to the hotel around 330 to 4 am . Most of the time we would end up marking off around the 12 and a half hour mark. Our train home would be ready around 12 the next day. so thats a 11 am call for 1 or 130. repeat the same trip going home with work along the way. We were classified as a road freight but we were basically a traveling switcher. So we would arrive back at the home yard around midnight, mark off around 1. then you throw in a 45 minute drive home. so I am getting home around 2ish. Take about a half an hour for myself then off to bed. Repeat 2 more times in the week. I remember a Friday trip down in January, it was snowing out and we had to take the siding for an opposing train. the siding switch is about 3/4 of a mile downhill from a 20 MPH curve. Already down to 15 MPH, its about 5 degrees at around 11pm, cab heaters are on full blast. My conductor and I woke up at the switch for the siding, train is stopped and the air is set, neither one of us remembering how we got there. I turned in my equipment to the trainmaster on the next return trip. Now they are doing it with longer trains and less rested crews.
I've worked for UP for almost two decades now (kind of scary now that I think about it) and in that time I've come to the realization that as the industry pushes forward the agenda was to force crews to operate as 'computer-like' as possible. In other words, work flawlessly with less emphasis put on rest, less emphasis put on common sense, less emphasis put on actual operator skill, and ultimately less operator opinions being heard or valued by management. Unsurprisingly it became operationally impossible to expect crews like us to work within this inhuman level of precise flawless efficiency that the industry was wanting. So the industry doubled down on pushing forward with the next best thing which was, if they can't train us to operate like computers, then replace us with them. It's to the point now with our units that I feel like we are one technological leap away from putting sock puppets in the cabs of our units since we aren't there to actually THINK or invest personal training and effort into managing our equipment. We are simply there to monitor the brains these units have and ensure they don't get tripped up by some flaw that hasn't been refined out of the system yet until things are so precise that we are removed from the equation entirely. In two decades now I went from having pride in my training and abilities to reaching a point of feeling like less of a crew member and more of a babysitter for these units. Makes me glad I'll be able to retire sooner then later and be able to say that I left on my own terms as well as got to actually be part of the last generation of railroading that actually had real people operating these things. Makes me sad and disgusted in this industry at the same time.
@@Henry5623 some very good commentary everywhere on this subject. You should consider writing a book about your thoughts and experiences after you retire. Your writing is clear, concise, and a joy to read.
I have made almost an entire trip on several occasions standing up next to the control stand because I knew that the minute I sat down I would be dead asleep.
Having worked for UP for nearly two decades of my life now I can say that PSR isn't a new concept. It's been implemented into the operating practices of this industry almost as long as the industry has existed to start with. Unsurprisingly the logistics and self sabotaging bureaucracy of any PSR inspired operational mode has almost universally failed throughout the entirety of the rail industry with a VERY limited few exceptions. The reason PSR style operations exist and continue to keep trying the be re-implemented is because are driven by hedge funds and investment firms who decide they want a rapid increased return on their investments. So they start barking to upper management in the rail industry to generate some quick cash. Management throughout the industry responds by looking for "financial liabilities" to cut out of the equation which consequently leads to lower tier management and train crew numbers being slashed forcing the company to subsequently do more with less which in the process generates a rapid revenue spike to appease investors. However in doing so chaos is unleashed throughout the industry leading to the growing concerns of industry wide instabilities and the economic impacts caused by the workforce's being slashed and operational consequences due to longer but fewer trains to serve customers. This in turn subsequently leads to market instabilities which threaten to hurt share prices and investor returns as a result. So right on cue PSR style operating modes are quietly reduced in significance to help stabilize economic and industrial concerns leading everyone to believe that the lessons of the hazards of PSR style operations has been learned. But they haven't. It's only been hushed until the next financially driven profit spike is demanded. This pattern has repeated itself throughout the entirety of the rail industry and rest assure as long as the industry continues to exist it'll continue to resurface. Hence why every new management wave to enter the rail industry "conveniently" does the same thing at some point in their career to keep on the good side of investors and to cement their legacy as competent leaders in the rail industry as far as investment firms are concerned. I liken it to how every time shareholders in oil companies decide they want more money oil refineries "CONVENIENTLY" start blowing up out of nowhere. Just totally and purely "CONVENIENTLY" start exploding one after another. They all were fine for years without any issue or threat and then "CONVENIENTLY" all within a year or two multiple ones suddenly all turn into time bombs waiting to go off and there's never any public explanation as to why so many in quick succession "CONVENIENTLY" started blowing up. In any case this leads to fuel shortages which spikes up demand for gas and consequently spike up share prices as a result. This allows oil companies and investment firms to bath in record profits until the economic impacts of gas shortages and gas prices surging become too big to be ignored any longer. Then "CONVENIENTLY" oil refineries suddenly stop randomly exploding and the problems caused by it slowly fade until the next round of record profits are demanded. "Funny" how oil refineries exploding and record profits within the oil industry always "CONVENIENTLY" occur in quick succession of one another. "Funny" how that works. Almost as "funny" as how every time PSR inspired operational modes in the rail industry are implemented, shareholders suddenly don't want to bring any attention to the steep financial returns they are receiving on their investments. "Funny"; oh so "funny" that is.
In order to make the railroads look good for investors, the Hunter Harrison approach is to shut down yards, fire as many people as possible, deadline hundreds of locomotives, abandon needed tracks, scrap thousands of freight cars and run THREE MILE long trains with what’s left. Basically turn the railroad into skeleton that’s supposed to supply the entire country with needed goods. The result: a massive supply chain gridlock. But hey, at least the stockholders made a few extra bucks…at the expense of empty grocery store shelves.
It's a system that works well when everything goes according to plan. But when something - even some little thing - goes wrong, there's a HUGE mess. Anybody who has actually worked "in the field" knows that things go wrong all the time.
Railroads need to be controlled by the people who actually run them. Engineers, brakemen/conductors, maintenance, and yardmasters, and dispatchers. Anyone else needs to be cut out of the picture. Let them do their jobs for country’s sake.
I was listening once to a conversation between two industry guys, who had a bunch of machinery they needed shipped. I was a chauffeur at the time and had taken them out to inspect a facility. They were debating between shipping it through the Panama Canal, or paying the extra for a much faster shipment by truck. I asked why they weren't considering rail. One of the guys gave an atomic eye roll and said (paraphrasing) "Those guys. With trucking or shipping, you can guarantee your cargo will arrive on X day. On the boat it might take a month and the truck it might be 3 days, but you'll know. With rail you never know when it's going to show up. They'll park it in a yard somewhere until they've got enough stuff to build a train to the next yard. If you've got a power plant and need 4,000 tons of coal every day, rail is great. If you've got a one-time shipment you're lucky if they don't hang up on you." As a railfan who never understood why anybody would bother shipping long-haul with trucks, it was very eye-opening. Made me want to start a railroad that prioritizes fast scheduled freight.
Years ago they did have fast scheduled freight. Nickle Plate slogan was "Fast freight". WP and Santa Fe ran shorter freight trains on fast schedules. SP waited until they had enough cars before they ran the train.
PSR has been a disaster due to destroyed customer service and undermining the sustainability for the industry. At some point, the industry will blow up.
When Harrison was at Canadian Pacific, the employees in Calgary, Alberta threatened to go on strike due to many grievances. Harrison came up with the idea of training non-union office staff to operate trains. They were to take the training on week ends. I don't know how many had ever worked on trains before. Absolute madness.
office staff operating trains rounds out their education and gives them an appreciation that railroads do not run from offices. It also creates discipline in people. Harrison was a demanding leader and he got results. Competition sometimes sucks but if you do not rise to the challenge you are left behind. CP is a better place as a result of Harrison's legacy.
I started working for BN in 1989. 33 years later I am about to retire. In 2005 I left the back shop and went to the train yard. At that time we had five crews out on the west end inspecting coal trains. We were inspecting 20 to 25 coal trains a shift. We ran as many as 103 trains a day thru the yard. Today we are running approximately 10 to 15 coal trains a shift with three crews inspecting. If in 2005 we ran more traffic than we do now with far less tracks than we have now you would think there is something wrong. We are being run into the ground with the sole purpose of PSR and one man crews. Do not let Matt Rose tell you things are great when he and his cohorts are the problem. Give us the people give us a contract give us the equipment and get us the trains not longer one and we will solve the supply problems. This is a mismanagement problem from the top down. We ran more trains than what we run now years ago. We had locomotives and people waiting on train not trains waiting on people and power. All for the shareholders and profit this mess was created.
I'm nipping at your heals with time and I've never seen 20 people quit out of not wanting to live this RR life. Since Feb and implementation of HI VIZ over 1700 TYE employees and the rate of 1 every 20 min are resigning. A bunch are engineers. Just to many yrs left to work under this joke. They did this on purpose to create a man power issue to justify going to 1 person crew. 15000 feet 18000+ tons with one person who is wore out like twice chewed bubble gum. Working on call 24/7 365. For those left standing with just few yrs left to reach retirement were gonna be destroyed physically,mentally and emotionally as this grinds us down to nothing.
I'm now wondering ... maybe, just MAYBE the number of incidents of container looting and rampant tagging would be reduced if there weren't so many trains held up at terminals. It's a little difficult to break into or tag a moving train.
PSR is the railroad version of moving manufacturing of almost everything to China and moving IT to India. Hollow out Middle America. Distort the free market economy by paying slave labor wages to overseas workers. From what I can tell, PSR sticks it to small customers who have to turn to trucks. PSR sticks it to maintenance workers who keep the locomotives running and the freight cars rolling. PSR sticks it to conductors and engineers forcing them to drive two to three mile long trains. Can you imagine the stress involved in that? The knucklehead who runs BNSF wants one man crews. Even the biggest customers, who have no alternative to railroads, get screwed because of delays in delivery. Double tracks become single track. The Class 1 railroads are heading for re regulation or being split up. They deserve both. It is important that the make a profit without ignoring safety with overworked equipment and employees. This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. It's the Swamp North (Wall Street) and Swamp South (DC) sticking it to you and me. Wall Street investors and stock analysts have always favored short term growth, damn the future.
@@sureman13 He Also, F**ked Up CSX. Now Norfolk Southern's Current CEO, James A. Squires Is Messing Them (NS) Up By Selling Off All Of The Equipment Railfans Liked. Union Pacific Is Also Planning To Use PSR Which Is Not The Wisest Thing To Do. Fortunately BNSF Doesn't Use It. They Considered Using Certain Aspects Of It If They Felt It Would Benefit The Company And Customers.
Over 200 cars for freight trains is not normal and despite what Batory said, in the last 10 years, most freights were under 140 cars. Some of the CSX intermodals between Buffalo and Chicago were 150 cars plus but well and spine cars are relatively light compared to most other cars.
RRs are working on completely automated trains so they can continue to cut labor costs. The technology is quickly moving into place and it far easier to accomplish than driverless cars! Then, it may just be in yards and command hubs that even have people.
This is why I love BNSF Railway. BNSF Railway hasn't adopted the Precision Scheduled Railroading philosophy that is dooming the other six. I've heard from many close friends at BNSF that while others have adopted this and cut corners, BNSF has avoided it and invested more into the network and making their employees happy.
I pray that BNSF does not put this Dangerous idea into their railroad!please BNSF!please dont be fooled into believing the this idea will work for you because the truth of the matter is that this concept will destroy your railroad!the other class ones are suffering greatly from maintenance problems, a lack of quality workers, And they are having a lot if derailment and locomotive accidents and breakdowns on their lines.all because of this Dangerous psr!Kevin if you are the last railroad who refuses this Dangerous idea, I will support you and your railroad.
At 6:51 I tend to ask that question almost everyday. Each day they are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Norfolk Southern is in the worse of it right now and CEO Squires only cares about profit more than safety of the public, safety of the employees and etc. Sadly this is the best video I found of the issue and meanwhile the media seems to worship Harrison for what he did. Yeah no he deserves to rot in train hell....
Look at Norfolk southern,they are experiencing a lot of problems with psr and they are having a lot of derailments in nearly every city they go thru all kinds of problems with equipment and services and road failures, and two man crews. CSX is having the same problems because they were stupid enough to get this Dangerous idea!
I'm guessing he was deceptively counting articulated cars as single units rather then individual platforms. So technically, yes, you could maybe add only 10 triple-well cars to a stack train, but as far as length, you've added the equivalent of 30 cars.
PSR SUCKS, I have a Lotta friends at work for the railroad for instants Norfolk Southern that has been there for 25+ years and got laid off because the PSR and that all amounts to Wall Street and the owners of the railroad wanting to make more money with less people that’s all this is about
@@Trains21 PSR is a cost cutting scam that only benefits the white collar criminals on Wall Street. Bill Ackman belongs in prison. Joe Biden has done nothing to hold these elitists accountable.
No train should be longer than an average siding along it's route, in case of any emergency situations. Railroads are cutting way too many jobs that are required to operate a train safely thru many communities all while making trains longer just to make a profit. Longer trains and less people means more derailments. Corporate greed makes the working class bleed!
The truth is that different aspects of PSR have been implemented for decades. The problem comes when CEOs and big wigs get a utopian idea of "ultimate efficiency" that is just not attainable. Yes, some aspects of railroading have been made more efficient. Yes, longer trains get more done with less, but at what cost? These guys have GOT to start thinking about their employees and customers more than themselves. The company I work for is fantastic! Why? They are constantly thinking about the well being of the employees. I think if the railroads did that, they'd get a lot further than they are with this PSR rubbish. But what do I know?...
@@DB-gr7ch where would they go? Trade jobs are built on seniority. When you’ve been working at a good job for 20 years, you don’t quit 10 years before retirement because it’s gotten tougher. The idea that “it’s ok because if it wasn’t you’d quit” is a very flawed argument that is only made by the very young and/or the very foolish.
@@DB-gr7ch What an incredibly short sighted opinion. Have you really given that idea any thought or are you parroting corporate propaganda? When you treat people like disposable tools, don’t be surprised when the tools rise up and slit your throat.
Thank god some one gives two so shits. I am an engineer on a class 1 RR. What is going on is COMPLETLEY unaware of anyone knowledge. Please get the message out !!! We need help!!!!
I’m guessing nowadays on csx and other railroads we don’t see a lot of the older engines like the sd40s sd70mac sd70ms dash 8a and everything because of PSR. Where I live the csx river line travels through my town and usually we see about 20 or so trains a day but before we often have about 30 or so trains a day. But because of PSR and the DPUs csx has abolished most of their trains and some of them are either short or combined into new trains and honestly it’s getting worst everyday.
My friend complains about this on altoona and Hagerstown runs. Feel bad for those conductors ... those boots are made for walking and thats just what they do 😆
@UCyZyBEx-3p18QDe_fgi0lHg The energy management is wrapped into the PTC system. The locomotive runs itself Until it encounters a issue or a require a stop or a Glitch . IF I'm going on the line of road the PTC and says Enforcement breaking in 43 sec due to unknown signal al of a sudent and I'm rolling on energy management and react to the promt on undulating terrain I will stall become not enough power on line
We should all have concerns about PSR. BNSF is getting ready to close a major locomotive maintenance facility in Seattle a terminal that runs freight traffic in 3 different directions, runs multiple locals and has 4 sizeable yards In a major port city. The closest engine terminal that can do more than just running work will be North town, Mn. I suppose after the dust settles.
@@DB-gr7chI don't get your point. Poorly maintained trucks and poorly dispatched and maintained trains are two separate issues which both need to be addressed.
Not to be rude, but if you are at all invested in the rail industry, how the hell did you not see that PSR was counter intuitive to the health of the rail industry? It's been obvious for years now that since PSR was implemented thousands of crews have lost their jobs, tens of thousands of units have been forced into early retirement/scrapped, new units are already being put into storage, and there's fewer trains then ever and even fewer crews operating them. In the face of all of this at what point did you think that PSR was doing anything to actually help the industry? In your defense I could argue it was good for putting a short term profit surge into the pockets of investors, but in the long run it's been nothing but havoc in the industry basically from the start and is undermining the industry as a result. Sure the economy is part of the problem. But PSR cuts crew/management numbers, cuts train numbers, and cuts the floor out from under the industry in the process. Having invested nearly two decades into the industry working for UP I can say with absolute certainty that PSR is NOT a new concept in the slightest, but it's also not being implemented to benefit crews or the long term health of the industry. There's a reason why throughout this industries history, PSR style operations have almost unanimously failed to be long term successes in any meaningful way with VERY few exceptions. Apparently the new wave of idiots trying to rule this industry refuse to learn anything from it's history and this industry will suffer until they realize their mistake. At that point the damage is already done though and it's becoming harder and harder for the damage to be undone every time it happens.
The step beyond PSR is by deduction; shorter but more frequent unmanned trains and fully computerized dispatching and track control. If they can consider self driving trucks as nearly practicable where steering and road conditions are hugely variable, a train on a controlled track is not much more than a conveyer belt and would be the easiest fit for autonomous automatic control. I would guess that within a decade there’ll be a one manned maintenance car in the middle of some trains that go through inaccessible areas and that will be the extent of train crews sans engineers and conductors.
Where it has been ACTUALLY implemented, psr has transformed what is possible in rail. At UNP and NSC, the term PSR was just stolen and used as a slogan, to impress the stock market. That was just the same old, unenlightened cost-cutting. And it did what it always does: ends up causing problems.
Put the working man an woman back to work. Railroad needs it. Csx hired a man that killed it. My family friends an people I don't know lost jobs because of it. Time the worker's take it back.
So where is the Congressional hearing on the loss of jobs in small business in the last year?! Nothing against RR workers, but they're hardly alone in regard to job loss!
You're comparing apples to oranges. Job losses nation wide have spiked in the last year not due to corporate greed or investor demands but because of a pandemic that politicians nor investment groups have control over. If anything investors are hurting because of the pandemic and consequently loosing money due to the economy suffering because of it. However those jobs will ultimately come back once the pandemic ends and a economic surge is brought upon the nation and the world around us as a result of the workforce of every global industry suddenly being able to return since. Consequently those same workforce's didn't want their staff out of work to start with since it brings forth limited production of goods and services that ultimately translate into cooperate profits. The rail industry cutting management and crew numbers has nothing to do with the pandemic but rather upper management within the industry listening more to hedge funds and investors rather then listen to those of us within the company. I've worked for UP for nearly two decades now and PSR isn't a new concept to the industry and isn't dependent upon the economy. It's been implemented in one form or another almost as long as this industry has existed and unsurprisingly it's failed catastrophically nearly every time with a RARE few exceptions. Investors start barking louder and louder so management starts looking for ways to cut operating costs while still ensuring the same level of work gets done. So PSR style operations are suddenly implemented and investors make a rapid return on their investments until the economic fallout from the destruction caused within the workforce of the rail industry itself starts to bring legitimate concerns about the industries stability and survival. Then "conveniently" PSR style operations are diminished in their significance and the industry seems to return to normal but not for long. PSR isn't a consequent of the economy or the pandemic but rather a tried and true money generating practice the industry uses to profit those who need money the LEAST. That is why I say you're comparing apples to oranges.
Workers in small business usually aren't responsible for mobile tank farms of thousands of tons of hazardous materials barreling through residential neighborhoods!
If you congressmen are going to just talk about this then,every one of you need to be replaced! They all holler SAFETY, but none of them have put SAFETY in practice!too many rail workers have been killed because of a lack of SAFETY in the workplace! They have lost jobs and lost hope and faith in the rail industry. Who ever came up with this Dangerous idea was not thinking about the health and safety of the rail workers!and this psr practice should be abolished from the railroad industry altogether! The class one railroads Must go back to making SAFETY a number one priority! It should not be about the dollar and profits that they can make. SAFETY is not an accident. It is the Failure of the railroad industry to implement SAFETY and the proper care for their employees and their families who depend on them to bring home a living and to live to work the next day! Think SAFETY FIRST! Drop this dumb psr! And start caring for your workers!
Back in the 60's, 70's they ran these railroads into the the ground. Remember well 3rd generation wasn't very old. Rock Island and Milwaukee went under.
Precision scheduled railroading is the Hot Topic they're talking about here it probably has to do with the trains and how they operate I don't know I'm just saying
Just watched some of the interview with BNSF Matt Rose about the port of Long Beach, Los Angeles expansion proposition and hey look at the current supply chain crisis today!
BNSF famously rejected the merits of PSR.....even "fake" PSR. They just keep throwing more money at problems, like every railway has always done. Just saying.
Boils down to capitalism at its best. At the cost of safety and "real" hands on employees losing their jobs just to obtain, gain or sustain levels of return on investment to Wall St., corporate figureheads and shareholders. That whoever that guy is had no good explanation to Mr DeFazio as he nailed it on the head. PSR cuts those legs on that 3 legged stool to the nubs, especially the one leg called the customer. Railroading was just fine without these now 12-17k foot long trains. These Class 1 railroad execs don't have enough education combined to admit that PSR nor themselves that they are wrong, as long as their pockets are continually stuffed with $$$$ at the sacrifice of the hard working blue collar railroad workers.
This isn't capitalism at it's best, it's crony capitalism, which is a bastardization of the system. I dare anyone to convince me socialism, and communism is better. Real capitalism values the customer, and knows a happy customer means bigger profits, and more business.
@@HobbiesRfun Unions=Socialism. Higher pay and benefits=socialism. Corporatism=socialism for the rich. "Crony capitalism" is just sugar-coated nonsense. Call it what it is: corporatism.
I honestly reckon you Americans should just chop up all the railways and obligate said new railways to keep their stakes private. Of course, not entirely related but I still stand by that opinion.
Nobody even wants to work for the railroads, anymore. High/Good seniority workers, quit all the time. It's in a meltdown. Trucks do what railroads can't. Bulk Commodities will be basically the only freight hauled on railroads.
If have it figured out, you could probably make yourself rich selling the formula to them...I'm sure it would be worth a ton of money for them to know the right answer.
Where was the outcry about working class job losses when Walmart went to self checkout? When gas stations went to self pumping? When toll booths went to 'Toll By Plate'? What's the difference? The railroad employees are represented by greedy unions and those other jobs are not.
Probably because the same level of idiots who demanded a $15+ dollars an hour minimum wage are too stupid to understand that when the workforce is deemed too much of a financial liability to the company, the work force suddenly starts being replaced. The rail industry is no different. The only difference is we aren't demanding that we be paid more for our work. Corporate greed and the need to have investors tripping over piles of financial returns on their investments have lead to the industry viewing us as financial liabilities. For nearly two decades I've worked for UP and it's become apparent that the people who run this company aren't us, but rather hedge-funds and investors because the louder they bark for more of a return on their investments, the more of us are replaced with downsizing and technology doing the work for us. Consequently it ensures there's fewer and fewer of us around to take profits away from those who need it the LEAST. Where was the outcry about self checkout and self pumping becoming a thing? It was there. The only difference is those jobs aren't detrimental to the economy even though they still hurt it. However the stability of this industry and subsequently the survival of the crews within it are. Hence the outcry being heard as high up the political chain as it is.
@@Carrot__Panda Driving a train isn’t the most skilled job. Nor is sitting around on a train (conductor). One man crews have been standard in pretty much every country outside North America since the introduction of diesel locomotives.
I do not like psr either less trains less jobs more pressure on the work force but I think that we should not like joe Biden just because he likes trains I see people in the comments saying “JoE BidEn iS a friEnD to ThE rAiLRoAS” like be quiet just because he likes trains dose not make him a good president.
PSR’s actually really fucking awesome though for the company and general operations for certain situations and conditions, like if you’re running a trunk line. The whole reason PSR’s failing with a whole lotta Class Is is how fast they implemented it, and a lot of the people doing it are corporate sleezebags who shouldn’t be in charge of railroads that just care about the shareholders. Like for instance, two railroads that really thrive/thrived off PSR was the Illinois Central and the FEC. IC was well off because they had a guy who put the system together through his *own* experiences as a railroader, seeing as EHH worked for the StL-SF for a long while before rising thru the ranks at IC. Not just that, but the IC was in essence a trunk line that had already streamlined the fuck out of its system, save for a few remaining branches and GM&O lines. But for the most part their system meshed the best with how PSR’s *suppost* to work compared to how it’s currently “working” for say, NS or CSX. FEC’s another situation in a sense of a trunk line. Because of its trackage and its traffic, PSR actually works *perfectly* for it. And it has been. FEC was always a moneymaker after the 1964-1977 strike, but even moreso when one of Harrison’s guys, some MacPherson dude came along for the FEC. Where’re NS and CSX going wrong though? Well compared to the mostly single mainline systems of the FEC or the IC, they go in all different directions, instead of a single mainline and a few branches or even two mainlines. They have *many* of those with a fuckton of excess facilities that have been cut in an *attempt* to mesh for PSR to work, but has just led to a job heartache and overall a real downturn for both roads. It isn’t PSR that’s the problem, it’s the people in charge of the big Class Is trying to use it for their own gain that’re the problem.
the railroads have prospered because of deregulation, innovation and new technology. let’s remember the havoc that the unions and Democrats wrought before. now they want to do it again. remember the RR’s almost went out of business and have to change with the times. some jobs are better then no jobs.
Regulation by corrupt, incompetent and utterly dishonest politicians will only collapse the industry faster. Look at the record. Do you trust McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer? Really?
It's not just about jobs. It's about employee and public safety. Cutting more employees off means less maintenance being performed on equipment. Which enhances the likelihood off accidents. Accidents on the railroad could be catastrophic. The FRA has made it painfully obvious they don't care about enforcing rules and regulations on the carrier. So now it's up to the unions to get someone to enforce these regulations.
_"When I hired on we had 700,000 employees, and now we have about 150,000."_ Yup, and there was no outcry or congressional investigation to determine what happened, and where all this manpower went. All this is is some crusty old man yelling at the future for being different.
It’s too bad that the government can’t be more efficient and you’re criticizing private industry for being more fish it sounds like you’ve got a problem Mr.
The unfortunate reality is that railroads are accountable to shareholders and customers. It is a capital intensive industry. The government is quite the opposite. It is accountable to nobody, and has no obligation to be efficient or well managed and in reality has no competition or obligation to produce ganerally accepted accounting statements. Railroads and other industries, for that matter, rewards excellence, government rewards incompetence and people who have an ability to talk volumes and say nothing. There is no incentive for government to be efficient because there are no ties to government salaries and performance. They elect themselves raises.
Great, attacking someone who is deceased, therefore can not defend themselves. Stay classy committee. (Me, formerly Real Canadian Railfan... I forgot my PW to that channel.)
Harrison's competitor peers hated PSR because they were personally threatened by it. Harrison made the railroad-ignorant MBAs and lawyers running America's Class 1 railroads look incompetent. So they vilified him and warned how reckless, dangerous, and bad he was for society. And some rail customers feared PSR immensely. Because change makes lazy people, comfortable in their ways, and having a worry-free lucrative career despite any semblance of effort, quite worried about their own job security. After Harrison died, and was no longer a threat to them, they immediately (and obscenely hypocritically) started embracing PSR, knowing that the stock analysts and market would eat it up and instantly boost their stock prices. (...despite it allegedly being such a "terrible idea"....go figure!) But it was just a grift. America doesn't need to worry about PSR coming to America. The claims by current CEOs to be implementing it is pure bunk. They co-opted the term "PSR" as the hip acronym to spew. Their version was at worst, nothing. And at best uninspired, traditional, 'same old' cost-cutting. Don't worry....real PSR died with Harrison. And the clubby cabal of freight railroads will never realize their potential. The Harrison story is akin to the travesty of Galileo's: An imperfect genius who challenged the status quo....shunned and declared a heretic by those whose status were seriously threatened by his insights.....to only get properly acknowedged AFTER all those endangered by him are finally gone.
Spoken like a true apologist for the hedge funds. There's really no PSR, nothing to see here, just disgruntled employees and customers, let's all just move along.
@@whiteknightcat Nope...just a very happy investor who saw two Cdn. railroad investments soar after HH transformed them from comatose, slow, unreliable make-work projects into 21st century shipping competitors. Go back to enjoying your daily ration of Soviet gruel.
@@DB-gr7ch I can't, given there hasn't been any new "Soviet" food product for 30 years. If there was, it would be held up in a container in a siding somewhere so the company can keep making you rich at everyone else's expense.
@@whiteknightcat The computer and interent have caused huge turmoil in every industry.......greeting cards, stationary sales, postal service......yet you embrace that change fully, without a peep or losing any sleep. Change and innovation to improve efficiency are basic tenets of capitalism. Hypocrisy is never having to say you're wrong.
Democrats ruined the freight railroads for decades with overregulation, always siding with the abusive unions, forcing the freight railroads to maintain money-gobbling passenger service and even government setting shipping rates. It was DEregulation in 1980 under the Staggers Act that saved the freight railroads and allowed them to modernize. Today, Democrats are grousing about PSR while throttling the railroads again with Amtrak. On cross-country routes, Amtrak trains use the freight companies' tracks and gum up the movement of freight trains by taking priority in movement. This not only causes huge and costly delays for the freight companies, but it also is a disaster for the environment. Stopping and starting big, heavy freight trains (often more than 10,000 tons) over and over in order to give Amtrak priority is a big waste of money and energy and causes significant air pollution.
Bingo... and the Amtrak train is half-empty. I watch the Cardinal go by 3 days a week. During the pandemic you could see half a dozen people. Still ran 3x weekly w/ normal 4 cars. Now... it's up to normal - half full.
Government creates nothing, improves nothing, and costs a fortune. And the specific basic services it should provide and must do, it is less and less interested in doing.
@@JugSouthgate My apologies for correcting your revisionist history but this was in a time where congress actually worked in bi-partisan manner. The bill was co-sponsored by a Republican and passed the Senate 91-4. Sorry to burst your partisan bubble.
A great topic that I hope stimulates lots of conversation and views. For fans of the industry, I want to recommend 2 books to get, read and understand: "The Men Who Loved Trains" by Rush Loving, Jr and "My Life With Trains: Memoir Of A Railroader" by Jim McClellan. In a twist, both books detail the state of the RR industry up to the Conrail takeover by NS and CSX. But more importantly, both books are about seeing and making RR history through the life and eyes of one man, Jim McClellan, the vice president of Strategic Planning for Norfolk Southern.
The constant that Loving points out in his book is that there were leaders in the industry who loved the Railroad in a way we as fans might relate to. In PSR under the Harrison model, you have to have a ruthless love for profits before your railroad cause you sold your soul to wall street and the hedge fund you are fronting. We see it in those monster trains and that DPU in the middle that prePSR, was running a separate train with a separate crew whom supported separate families with that job. Or the hundreds of locos that NS sent to the deadlines, which in turn, put more pressure on those operating locomotives in service. Think I'm off base? Check out the burn marks on those GE engines going around the Horseshoe Curve these days, indicative of turbo fires. The laying off of many Juniata Locomotive Service shop cause good programs designed to put more life into servicable classes of engines were just scuttled by the new NS administration and Power Management Desk. I think the last man who subscribed to Loving's idea of loving the railroad was NS boss Wick Moorman. Since his retirement, Squires was forced to toe the wall street line.
Ron Batory, the man getting grilled there is the head of the FRA. A good railroad man. But he too was caught up in squeezing profits when as the head of Conrail Shared Assets, his railroad in South Jersey did away with the Pavonia Yard Hump and ever since then, Harrison was paying mind, as first he and now, all of them, have idled yard humps. And with it, those jobs are lost forever. All for the never ending quest of keeping wall street investors fed.
What are the alternatives? Despite scores of billions in subsidies Amtrak still runs in the red and will for the foreseeable future. Should we nationalize freight lines too and put them on the middle class’s back? How do RR’S Attract investors without returns. How do we compete when an objective observer can readily believe that most of our political and corporate “leaders” are really working for China. Believe what you will but sane people should be able to agree that the last thing the situation needs is self-enriching interference from DC.
I second this recommendation. I have read "The Men who loved Trains" and have to say it is very much an eye opening book. I know that McClellan also loved the railroads and can speak to the problems and solutions that have been taken.
I've said it before, I'mma say it gain. Bean-counting has *NO* place in the railroad industry. All it leads to is strife and fat pocketed Wall Street types getting happy at the expense of everyone else.
It they're just idling hump yards the jobs aren't exactly loss forever they're just not utilizing them for the time being I just hope everyone doesn't do like csx and get rid of em and think oh shit we might still need that.
@@williamboyer2973 they had have returns since at least since1985
Only increased by 10 cars? Jesus just last week I pulled 278 cars. When has 200+ car trains ever been “normal?”
People need to known that Hunter Harrison wasn't for the railroad, he was against the railroad- L&N Productions
the problem is these hedgefund managers and shareholders don't care!
He turned CN and CP into extremely unsafe situations
I used to work for the railroad. My typical week started Monday with a call at 1 pm for a 3 pm start. We would finally highball around 430 or 5. 75% of the time, we would reach our destination at or around 2 am, 25% we would outlaw within 5 miles of the yard. Winter it got worse. We would finally get to the hotel around 330 to 4 am . Most of the time we would end up marking off around the 12 and a half hour mark. Our train home would be ready around 12 the next day. so thats a 11 am call for 1 or 130. repeat the same trip going home with work along the way. We were classified as a road freight but we were basically a traveling switcher. So we would arrive back at the home yard around midnight, mark off around 1. then you throw in a 45 minute drive home. so I am getting home around 2ish. Take about a half an hour for myself then off to bed. Repeat 2 more times in the week. I remember a Friday trip down in January, it was snowing out and we had to take the siding for an opposing train. the siding switch is about 3/4 of a mile downhill from a 20 MPH curve. Already down to 15 MPH, its about 5 degrees at around 11pm, cab heaters are on full blast. My conductor and I woke up at the switch for the siding, train is stopped and the air is set, neither one of us remembering how we got there. I turned in my equipment to the trainmaster on the next return trip. Now they are doing it with longer trains and less rested crews.
I've worked for UP for almost two decades now (kind of scary now that I think about it) and in that time I've come to the realization that as the industry pushes forward the agenda was to force crews to operate as 'computer-like' as possible. In other words, work flawlessly with less emphasis put on rest, less emphasis put on common sense, less emphasis put on actual operator skill, and ultimately less operator opinions being heard or valued by management.
Unsurprisingly it became operationally impossible to expect crews like us to work within this inhuman level of precise flawless efficiency that the industry was wanting. So the industry doubled down on pushing forward with the next best thing which was, if they can't train us to operate like computers, then replace us with them.
It's to the point now with our units that I feel like we are one technological leap away from putting sock puppets in the cabs of our units since we aren't there to actually THINK or invest personal training and effort into managing our equipment. We are simply there to monitor the brains these units have and ensure they don't get tripped up by some flaw that hasn't been refined out of the system yet until things are so precise that we are removed from the equation entirely.
In two decades now I went from having pride in my training and abilities to reaching a point of feeling like less of a crew member and more of a babysitter for these units. Makes me glad I'll be able to retire sooner then later and be able to say that I left on my own terms as well as got to actually be part of the last generation of railroading that actually had real people operating these things. Makes me sad and disgusted in this industry at the same time.
@@Henry5623 I remember the Hogger that trained me said look at your gauges, listen with your ears and feel with the seat of your pants.
@@Henry5623 some very good commentary everywhere on this subject. You should consider writing a book about your thoughts and experiences after you retire. Your writing is clear, concise, and a joy to read.
I have made almost an entire trip on several occasions standing up next to the control stand because I knew that the minute I sat down I would be dead asleep.
Having worked for UP for nearly two decades of my life now I can say that PSR isn't a new concept. It's been implemented into the operating practices of this industry almost as long as the industry has existed to start with. Unsurprisingly the logistics and self sabotaging bureaucracy of any PSR inspired operational mode has almost universally failed throughout the entirety of the rail industry with a VERY limited few exceptions.
The reason PSR style operations exist and continue to keep trying the be re-implemented is because are driven by hedge funds and investment firms who decide they want a rapid increased return on their investments. So they start barking to upper management in the rail industry to generate some quick cash. Management throughout the industry responds by looking for "financial liabilities" to cut out of the equation which consequently leads to lower tier management and train crew numbers being slashed forcing the company to subsequently do more with less which in the process generates a rapid revenue spike to appease investors.
However in doing so chaos is unleashed throughout the industry leading to the growing concerns of industry wide instabilities and the economic impacts caused by the workforce's being slashed and operational consequences due to longer but fewer trains to serve customers. This in turn subsequently leads to market instabilities which threaten to hurt share prices and investor returns as a result. So right on cue PSR style operating modes are quietly reduced in significance to help stabilize economic and industrial concerns leading everyone to believe that the lessons of the hazards of PSR style operations has been learned. But they haven't. It's only been hushed until the next financially driven profit spike is demanded.
This pattern has repeated itself throughout the entirety of the rail industry and rest assure as long as the industry continues to exist it'll continue to resurface. Hence why every new management wave to enter the rail industry "conveniently" does the same thing at some point in their career to keep on the good side of investors and to cement their legacy as competent leaders in the rail industry as far as investment firms are concerned.
I liken it to how every time shareholders in oil companies decide they want more money oil refineries "CONVENIENTLY" start blowing up out of nowhere. Just totally and purely "CONVENIENTLY" start exploding one after another. They all were fine for years without any issue or threat and then "CONVENIENTLY" all within a year or two multiple ones suddenly all turn into time bombs waiting to go off and there's never any public explanation as to why so many in quick succession "CONVENIENTLY" started blowing up.
In any case this leads to fuel shortages which spikes up demand for gas and consequently spike up share prices as a result. This allows oil companies and investment firms to bath in record profits until the economic impacts of gas shortages and gas prices surging become too big to be ignored any longer. Then "CONVENIENTLY" oil refineries suddenly stop randomly exploding and the problems caused by it slowly fade until the next round of record profits are demanded.
"Funny" how oil refineries exploding and record profits within the oil industry always "CONVENIENTLY" occur in quick succession of one another. "Funny" how that works. Almost as "funny" as how every time PSR inspired operational modes in the rail industry are implemented, shareholders suddenly don't want to bring any attention to the steep financial returns they are receiving on their investments. "Funny"; oh so "funny" that is.
In order to make the railroads look good for investors, the Hunter Harrison approach is to shut down yards, fire as many people as possible, deadline hundreds of locomotives, abandon needed tracks, scrap thousands of freight cars and run THREE MILE long trains with what’s left. Basically turn the railroad into skeleton that’s supposed to supply the entire country with needed goods. The result: a massive supply chain gridlock. But hey, at least the stockholders made a few extra bucks…at the expense of empty grocery store shelves.
Read. Learn. Apologize.
It's a system that works well when everything goes according to plan.
But when something - even some little thing - goes wrong, there's a HUGE mess.
Anybody who has actually worked "in the field" knows that things go wrong all the time.
I could listen to Mr DEFAZIO all day long trashing PSR. BECAUSE HE MAKES GREAT POINTS.
Railroads need to be controlled by the people who actually run them. Engineers, brakemen/conductors, maintenance, and yardmasters, and dispatchers. Anyone else needs to be cut out of the picture. Let them do their jobs for country’s sake.
That’s right
I was listening once to a conversation between two industry guys, who had a bunch of machinery they needed shipped. I was a chauffeur at the time and had taken them out to inspect a facility. They were debating between shipping it through the Panama Canal, or paying the extra for a much faster shipment by truck. I asked why they weren't considering rail. One of the guys gave an atomic eye roll and said (paraphrasing) "Those guys. With trucking or shipping, you can guarantee your cargo will arrive on X day. On the boat it might take a month and the truck it might be 3 days, but you'll know. With rail you never know when it's going to show up. They'll park it in a yard somewhere until they've got enough stuff to build a train to the next yard. If you've got a power plant and need 4,000 tons of coal every day, rail is great. If you've got a one-time shipment you're lucky if they don't hang up on you."
As a railfan who never understood why anybody would bother shipping long-haul with trucks, it was very eye-opening. Made me want to start a railroad that prioritizes fast scheduled freight.
i can see and respect that logic they gave.
Years ago they did have fast scheduled freight. Nickle Plate slogan was "Fast freight". WP and Santa Fe ran shorter freight trains on fast schedules. SP waited until they had enough cars before they ran the train.
PSR has been a disaster due to destroyed customer service and undermining the sustainability for the industry. At some point, the industry will blow up.
When Harrison was at Canadian Pacific, the employees in Calgary, Alberta threatened to go on strike due to many grievances. Harrison came up with the idea of training non-union office staff to operate trains. They were to take the training on week ends. I don't know how many had ever worked on trains before. Absolute madness.
Hiring Scabs, pathetic !
office staff operating trains rounds out their education and gives them an appreciation that railroads do not run from offices. It also creates discipline in people. Harrison was a demanding leader and he got results. Competition sometimes sucks but if you do not rise to the challenge you are left behind. CP is a better place as a result of Harrison's legacy.
I started working for BN in 1989. 33 years later I am about to retire. In 2005 I left the back shop and went to the train yard. At that time we had five crews out on the west end inspecting coal trains. We were inspecting 20 to 25 coal trains a shift. We ran as many as 103 trains a day thru the yard. Today we are running approximately 10 to 15 coal trains a shift with three crews inspecting. If in 2005 we ran more traffic than we do now with far less tracks than we have now you would think there is something wrong. We are being run into the ground with the sole purpose of PSR and one man crews. Do not let Matt Rose tell you things are great when he and his cohorts are the problem. Give us the people give us a contract give us the equipment and get us the trains not longer one and we will solve the supply problems. This is a mismanagement problem from the top down. We ran more trains than what we run now years ago. We had locomotives and people waiting on train not trains waiting on people and power. All for the shareholders and profit this mess was created.
I'm nipping at your heals with time and I've never seen 20 people quit out of not wanting to live this RR life. Since Feb and implementation of HI VIZ over 1700 TYE employees and the rate of 1 every 20 min are resigning. A bunch are engineers. Just to many yrs left to work under this joke. They did this on purpose to create a man power issue to justify going to 1 person crew. 15000 feet 18000+ tons with one person who is wore out like twice chewed bubble gum. Working on call 24/7 365. For those left standing with just few yrs left to reach retirement were gonna be destroyed physically,mentally and emotionally as this grinds us down to nothing.
There speaks the Voice of sanity. Thank for sharing AC.
I'm now wondering ... maybe, just MAYBE the number of incidents of container looting and rampant tagging would be reduced if there weren't so many trains held up at terminals. It's a little difficult to break into or tag a moving train.
PSR is the railroad version of moving manufacturing of almost everything to China and moving IT to India. Hollow out Middle America. Distort the free market economy by paying slave labor wages to overseas workers.
From what I can tell, PSR sticks it to small customers who have to turn to trucks. PSR sticks it to maintenance workers who keep the locomotives running and the freight cars rolling. PSR sticks it to conductors and engineers forcing them to drive two to three mile long trains. Can you imagine the stress involved in that? The knucklehead who runs BNSF wants one man crews.
Even the biggest customers, who have no alternative to railroads, get screwed because of delays in delivery. Double tracks become single track.
The Class 1 railroads are heading for re regulation or being split up. They deserve both. It is important that the make a profit without ignoring safety with overworked equipment and employees. This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. It's the Swamp North (Wall Street) and Swamp South (DC) sticking it to you and me.
Wall Street investors and stock analysts have always favored short term growth, damn the future.
Pettiness and anger. Should have achieved more in school.
@@DB-gr7ch Big words from a small mind, but I'm sure you are used to hearing that.
Tell us how many times you voted for Biden.
@@penguinsfan251 Self-unaware projection is always hilarious.
CP track is sinking into the ballast,more tonnage less maintainance, surfacing etc... no tracktime for maintainance , no overtime
HUNTER HARRISON AND HIS HENCHMEN RUINED CP AND CN
@@sureman13 He Also, F**ked Up CSX. Now Norfolk Southern's Current CEO, James A. Squires Is Messing Them (NS) Up By Selling Off All Of The Equipment Railfans Liked. Union Pacific Is Also Planning To Use PSR Which Is Not The Wisest Thing To Do. Fortunately BNSF Doesn't Use It. They Considered Using Certain Aspects Of It If They Felt It Would Benefit The Company And Customers.
CP just bought Kansas City Southern and holds track from Canada to Mexico.
They're doing fine as far as I can tell.
I'll add a fact that people have forgotten:
A train can haul 1 ton of freight 450 miles, using 1 gallon of diesel.
PSR hurts the customer and the field employee why do you think short lines are doing so well.
Over 200 cars for freight trains is not normal and despite what Batory said, in the last 10 years, most freights were under 140 cars. Some of the CSX intermodals between Buffalo and Chicago were 150 cars plus but well and spine cars are relatively light compared to most other cars.
RRs are working on completely automated trains so they can continue to cut labor costs. The technology is quickly moving into place and it far easier to accomplish than driverless cars! Then, it may just be in yards and command hubs that even have people.
Western Australia iron ore trains on one company are fully automated .
Welcome to the future.
There are robots here.
This is why I love BNSF Railway. BNSF Railway hasn't adopted the Precision Scheduled Railroading philosophy that is dooming the other six. I've heard from many close friends at BNSF that while others have adopted this and cut corners, BNSF has avoided it and invested more into the network and making their employees happy.
I pray that BNSF does not put this Dangerous idea into their railroad!please BNSF!please dont be fooled into believing the this idea will work for you because the truth of the matter is that this concept will destroy your railroad!the other class ones are suffering greatly from maintenance problems, a lack of quality workers, And they are having a lot if derailment and locomotive accidents and breakdowns on their lines.all because of this Dangerous psr!Kevin if you are the last railroad who refuses this Dangerous idea, I will support you and your railroad.
This comment didn't age well 🤣
i want to shake Mr. DeFazio hand. This is exactly what we need. NS is the worst of it rn. Maybe one day we will get Americas railroads back
The RRs just need to get rid of psr.
At 6:51 I tend to ask that question almost everyday. Each day they are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Norfolk Southern is in the worse of it right now and CEO Squires only cares about profit more than safety of the public, safety of the employees and etc. Sadly this is the best video I found of the issue and meanwhile the media seems to worship Harrison for what he did. Yeah no he deserves to rot in train hell....
Where is the link for the full hearing,, would like to watch it, thanks.
Best Quote... started by some guy who is now dead....🤣priceless
Look at Norfolk southern,they are experiencing a lot of problems with psr and they are having a lot of derailments in nearly every city they go thru all kinds of problems with equipment and services and road failures, and two man crews. CSX is having the same problems because they were stupid enough to get this Dangerous idea!
10 cars? Are you high? It's two complete trains tied together with NO regard for safety!!!
I wonder how he passed math class.
Yea 10 cars? I think he forgot a zero. More like 100 increases
I'm guessing he was deceptively counting articulated cars as single units rather then individual platforms. So technically, yes, you could maybe add only 10 triple-well cars to a stack train, but as far as length, you've added the equivalent of 30 cars.
PSR is killing the Industry. Please the shareholders not the Company or employees Money consumed Minds.SMFH
PSR SUCKS, I have a Lotta friends at work for the railroad for instants Norfolk Southern that has been there for 25+ years and got laid off because the PSR and that all amounts to Wall Street and the owners of the railroad wanting to make more money with less people that’s all this is about
Yep
People hate change. And instead of quitting, as a personally accountable person would, they complain and have tantrums.
@@Trains21 PSR is a cost cutting scam that only benefits the white collar criminals on Wall Street. Bill Ackman belongs in prison. Joe Biden has done nothing to hold these elitists accountable.
No train should be longer than an average siding along it's route, in case of any emergency situations. Railroads are cutting way too many jobs that are required to operate a train safely thru many communities all while making trains longer just to make a profit. Longer trains and less people means more derailments. Corporate greed makes the working class bleed!
It shouldn't even have to be said!
Here we are 2 years later. Dealing with the consequences.
The truth is that different aspects of PSR have been implemented for decades. The problem comes when CEOs and big wigs get a utopian idea of "ultimate efficiency" that is just not attainable. Yes, some aspects of railroading have been made more efficient. Yes, longer trains get more done with less, but at what cost? These guys have GOT to start thinking about their employees and customers more than themselves. The company I work for is fantastic! Why? They are constantly thinking about the well being of the employees. I think if the railroads did that, they'd get a lot further than they are with this PSR rubbish. But what do I know?...
get rid of PSR, Bring back the caboose, and let me drink beers on a work train
THE CONDUCTORS AND ENGINEERS HAVE BEEN WORKING ON NS WITHOUT A CONTRACT FOR 3 YEARS
But not quitting. Weird hey?
@@DB-gr7ch where would they go? Trade jobs are built on seniority. When you’ve been working at a good job for 20 years, you don’t quit 10 years before retirement because it’s gotten tougher. The idea that “it’s ok because if it wasn’t you’d quit” is a very flawed argument that is only made by the very young and/or the very foolish.
@@TTaylor No, the jobs are artificiailly protected by unions and seniorty ...they are "built" on skills, competence, relevance and continued utility.
@@DB-gr7ch What an incredibly short sighted opinion. Have you really given that idea any thought or are you parroting corporate propaganda? When you treat people like disposable tools, don’t be surprised when the tools rise up and slit your throat.
Thank god some one gives two so shits. I am an engineer on a class 1 RR. What is going on is COMPLETLEY unaware of anyone knowledge. Please get the message out !!! We need help!!!!
I’m guessing nowadays on csx and other railroads we don’t see a lot of the older engines like the sd40s sd70mac sd70ms dash 8a and everything because of PSR. Where I live the csx river line travels through my town and usually we see about 20 or so trains a day but before we often have about 30 or so trains a day. But because of PSR and the DPUs csx has abolished most of their trains and some of them are either short or combined into new trains and honestly it’s getting worst everyday.
Yes it is.
Talk about how the railroads are laying off CONDUCTORS BY THE THOUSANDS.
PSR Moving 17,000 Ton trains with one I mean 1 locomotive 🤨 . GREAT VIDEO
Casing point, i caught so many of those literally w/ one locomotive out here in the past few months.
@@tracksidecameraman9055 Yup , When I start pulling the train the PTC says excessive train handling which is bogus
My friend complains about this on altoona and Hagerstown runs. Feel bad for those conductors ... those boots are made for walking and thats just what they do 😆
@UCyZyBEx-3p18QDe_fgi0lHg The energy management is wrapped into the PTC system. The locomotive runs itself Until it encounters a issue or a require a stop or a Glitch . IF I'm going on the line of road the PTC and says Enforcement breaking in 43 sec due to unknown signal al of a sudent and I'm rolling on energy management and react to the promt on undulating terrain I will stall become not enough power on line
@@engineerhall5887ya no thank you on automated cars and trains, my GPS can't even get crap right lol
We should all have concerns about PSR. BNSF is getting ready to close a major locomotive maintenance facility in Seattle a terminal that runs freight traffic in 3 different directions, runs multiple locals and has 4 sizeable yards In a major port city. The closest engine terminal that can do more than just running work will be North town, Mn. I suppose after the dust settles.
Why not be scared of poorly maintained transport truckls whipping past you on YOUR freeways? People are killed every day.
@@DB-gr7chI don't get your point. Poorly maintained trucks and poorly dispatched and maintained trains are two separate issues which both need to be addressed.
@@johncox2284 You not getting my point is not my problem.
@@DB-gr7ch So please enlighten me as to what your point is.
@@johncox2284 Please learn all of Shakespeare's plays in Latin.
I keep hearing of unmanned trains PTC wasn't designed to replace engineers it was designed to prevent accidents and head on collisions that's it.🙄🙄🙄🙄
dont work that way
They're already trying to use to cut conductors off.
@@jimmyraysplace5190 ditto that. todays Conductors become engineers some day
By force not choice, im living proof of it
Let me put psr into perspective… It’s insider trading… that’s it that’s all…
I work for bnsf and precision railroading is still happening and as of 1-11-23 there back to running 0/40 mph on most train. Expect more delays
Ughhh! Thanks for that info!
And now they want to eliminate the Conductor. The Bean Counters should stick with coffee.🤪👎
PSR sucks, end of story.
I agree 👍 💯 👏
Short but sweat
Wow!! I had no idea PSR was a destructive thing.
Not to be rude, but if you are at all invested in the rail industry, how the hell did you not see that PSR was counter intuitive to the health of the rail industry? It's been obvious for years now that since PSR was implemented thousands of crews have lost their jobs, tens of thousands of units have been forced into early retirement/scrapped, new units are already being put into storage, and there's fewer trains then ever and even fewer crews operating them. In the face of all of this at what point did you think that PSR was doing anything to actually help the industry?
In your defense I could argue it was good for putting a short term profit surge into the pockets of investors, but in the long run it's been nothing but havoc in the industry basically from the start and is undermining the industry as a result. Sure the economy is part of the problem. But PSR cuts crew/management numbers, cuts train numbers, and cuts the floor out from under the industry in the process.
Having invested nearly two decades into the industry working for UP I can say with absolute certainty that PSR is NOT a new concept in the slightest, but it's also not being implemented to benefit crews or the long term health of the industry.
There's a reason why throughout this industries history, PSR style operations have almost unanimously failed to be long term successes in any meaningful way with VERY few exceptions. Apparently the new wave of idiots trying to rule this industry refuse to learn anything from it's history and this industry will suffer until they realize their mistake. At that point the damage is already done though and it's becoming harder and harder for the damage to be undone every time it happens.
This is driven more by mutual fund managers who lust after greater dividends.
The step beyond PSR is by deduction; shorter but more frequent unmanned trains and fully computerized dispatching and track control.
If they can consider self driving trucks as nearly practicable where steering and road conditions are hugely variable, a train on a controlled track is not much more than a conveyer belt and would be the easiest fit for autonomous automatic control.
I would guess that within a decade there’ll be a one manned maintenance car in the middle of some trains that go through inaccessible areas and that will be the extent of train crews sans engineers and conductors.
And I don’t understand how stopping the use of a hump to sort cars increases efficiency?
Boy, I am glad you are back!
PSR is a JOKE...a BAD JOKE....end the FARCE...or expect MORE disruptions in supply chains. OK?
Where it has been ACTUALLY implemented, psr has transformed what is possible in rail.
At UNP and NSC, the term PSR was just stolen and used as a slogan, to impress the stock market.
That was just the same old, unenlightened cost-cutting. And it did what it always does: ends up causing problems.
PSR is a disaster...
I agree 👍 💯 👏
Yes it is should have just never had happen
Can't you say a train with a lash-up in the middle is two trains one operator?
were can i find the full video
Put the working man an woman back to work. Railroad needs it. Csx hired a man that killed it. My family friends an people I don't know lost jobs because of it. Time the worker's take it back.
Imo, the logbook changes in trucking, since 2007, have pushed freight off the road, onto rail. The whole thing looks carefully planned.
So where is the Congressional hearing on the loss of jobs in small business in the last year?! Nothing against RR workers, but they're hardly alone in regard to job loss!
You're comparing apples to oranges. Job losses nation wide have spiked in the last year not due to corporate greed or investor demands but because of a pandemic that politicians nor investment groups have control over. If anything investors are hurting because of the pandemic and consequently loosing money due to the economy suffering because of it. However those jobs will ultimately come back once the pandemic ends and a economic surge is brought upon the nation and the world around us as a result of the workforce of every global industry suddenly being able to return since. Consequently those same workforce's didn't want their staff out of work to start with since it brings forth limited production of goods and services that ultimately translate into cooperate profits.
The rail industry cutting management and crew numbers has nothing to do with the pandemic but rather upper management within the industry listening more to hedge funds and investors rather then listen to those of us within the company. I've worked for UP for nearly two decades now and PSR isn't a new concept to the industry and isn't dependent upon the economy. It's been implemented in one form or another almost as long as this industry has existed and unsurprisingly it's failed catastrophically nearly every time with a RARE few exceptions.
Investors start barking louder and louder so management starts looking for ways to cut operating costs while still ensuring the same level of work gets done. So PSR style operations are suddenly implemented and investors make a rapid return on their investments until the economic fallout from the destruction caused within the workforce of the rail industry itself starts to bring legitimate concerns about the industries stability and survival.
Then "conveniently" PSR style operations are diminished in their significance and the industry seems to return to normal but not for long. PSR isn't a consequent of the economy or the pandemic but rather a tried and true money generating practice the industry uses to profit those who need money the LEAST. That is why I say you're comparing apples to oranges.
@@Henry5623 Nothing is going to return to the way it was before March 2020. Ever.
Workers in small business usually aren't responsible for mobile tank farms of thousands of tons of hazardous materials barreling through residential neighborhoods!
@@doncarlton4858 No, but they are responsible for feeding, clothing and sheltering their families. Or is that “non essential”?
Nothing but help wanted signs in my area as far as the eye can see.
If you congressmen are going to just talk about this then,every one of you need to be replaced! They all holler SAFETY, but none of them have put SAFETY in practice!too many rail workers have been killed because of a lack of SAFETY in the workplace! They have lost jobs and lost hope and faith in the rail industry. Who ever came up with this Dangerous idea was not thinking about the health and safety of the rail workers!and this psr practice should be abolished from the railroad industry altogether! The class one railroads Must go back to making SAFETY a number one priority! It should not be about the dollar and profits that they can make. SAFETY is not an accident. It is the Failure of the railroad industry to implement SAFETY and the proper care for their employees and their families who depend on them to bring home a living and to live to work the next day! Think SAFETY FIRST! Drop this dumb psr! And start caring for your workers!
I'm liking this video because I agree
This whole PSR thing is not going to end well.
WHERE ARE THE TEAMSTERS ????? THEY REPRESENT THE ENGINEERS AND THE UTU WHO REPS THE CONDUCTORS????? NO WERE TO BE FOUND!!!
Psr is a joke in my opinion
Back in the 60's, 70's they ran these railroads into the the ground. Remember well 3rd generation wasn't very old. Rock Island and Milwaukee went under.
Precision scheduled railroading is the Hot Topic they're talking about here it probably has to do with the trains and how they operate I don't know I'm just saying
it has to do with Democrats pandering to unions. they almost destroyed the RR’s the last time around.
@@williamboyer2973 I keep hearing about Democrats and other politicians a lot lately on TV
Just the mass layoffs and psr bullshit.
The Large fund companies will have the largest voice. Excellent video.
Craziness!
Look up Ennis tx they build 10 k plus trains and block crossing up to 6 hrs building a train with only 1 under path Wich only hold 1 car at a time
He got his ass handed to him lmao 😂
Union Pacific has done this I think work but long run it will bite the Union Pacific back and will will happen I hope comes back someday
Just watched some of the interview with BNSF Matt Rose about the port of Long Beach, Los Angeles expansion proposition and hey look at the current supply chain crisis today!
BNSF famously rejected the merits of PSR.....even "fake" PSR. They just keep throwing more money at problems, like every railway has always done.
Just saying.
If there was no PSR we would still have 80MACs
Yeah
Same goes for CP Rail. We’d be seeing many SD40-2s around
Lies 7500 ft. Was the max for years!!!
Batory is also a bad actor. Glad he's out of the FRA.
There’s a special place in hell for Hunter Harrison.
Hunter Harrison was evil. I hope he suffers for what he did to workers.
You wanna see evil? Look at Hunter Bidens laptop
Easy to hate on someone when you don’t have to do his job. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy and useless.
Boils down to capitalism at its best. At the cost of safety and "real" hands on employees losing their jobs just to obtain, gain or sustain levels of return on investment to Wall St., corporate figureheads and shareholders. That whoever that guy is had no good explanation to Mr DeFazio as he nailed it on the head. PSR cuts those legs on that 3 legged stool to the nubs, especially the one leg called the customer. Railroading was just fine without these now 12-17k foot long trains. These Class 1 railroad execs don't have enough education combined to admit that PSR nor themselves that they are wrong, as long as their pockets are continually stuffed with $$$$ at the sacrifice of the hard working blue collar railroad workers.
This isn't capitalism at it's best, it's crony capitalism, which is a bastardization of the system. I dare anyone to convince me socialism, and communism is better. Real capitalism values the customer, and knows a happy customer means bigger profits, and more business.
@@HobbiesRfun Unions=Socialism. Higher pay and benefits=socialism. Corporatism=socialism for the rich. "Crony capitalism" is just sugar-coated nonsense. Call it what it is: corporatism.
I honestly reckon you Americans should just chop up all the railways and obligate said new railways to keep their stakes private. Of course, not entirely related but I still stand by that opinion.
From 9:05 , he starts dogging the questions lol ! Pos !!
Nobody even wants to work for the railroads, anymore. High/Good seniority workers, quit all the time. It's in a meltdown. Trucks do what railroads can't. Bulk Commodities will be basically the only freight hauled on railroads.
And yet the trians are still running....hunh.
With a massive shortage of truck drivers, and traffic already horrendous, I surely hope not...
The railroads don't know squat about train lengths. Everything is trial by error.
If have it figured out, you could probably make yourself rich selling the formula to them...I'm sure it would be worth a ton of money for them to know the right answer.
They are making money. They know what they are doing. They are professionals.
What people will say to put more money in their pockets.
Where the trains lets see the trains
Less trains less engine running longer slow trains no foreign power psr suck s
Where was the outcry about working class job losses when Walmart went to self checkout? When gas stations went to self pumping? When toll booths went to 'Toll By Plate'? What's the difference? The railroad employees are represented by greedy unions and those other jobs are not.
Exoress Delivers It doesn’t take skill to swipe an item across a scanner.
Probably because the same level of idiots who demanded a $15+ dollars an hour minimum wage are too stupid to understand that when the workforce is deemed too much of a financial liability to the company, the work force suddenly starts being replaced. The rail industry is no different. The only difference is we aren't demanding that we be paid more for our work. Corporate greed and the need to have investors tripping over piles of financial returns on their investments have lead to the industry viewing us as financial liabilities.
For nearly two decades I've worked for UP and it's become apparent that the people who run this company aren't us, but rather hedge-funds and investors because the louder they bark for more of a return on their investments, the more of us are replaced with downsizing and technology doing the work for us. Consequently it ensures there's fewer and fewer of us around to take profits away from those who need it the LEAST.
Where was the outcry about self checkout and self pumping becoming a thing? It was there. The only difference is those jobs aren't detrimental to the economy even though they still hurt it. However the stability of this industry and subsequently the survival of the crews within it are. Hence the outcry being heard as high up the political chain as it is.
@@Carrot__Panda Driving a train isn’t the most skilled job. Nor is sitting around on a train (conductor). One man crews have been standard in pretty much every country outside North America since the introduction of diesel locomotives.
@@ironmatic1 that's other countries. don't compare those to the U.S the rail network is way bigger.
Humans are obsolete which is why we have slow kill vaccines.
I do not like psr either less trains less jobs more pressure on the work force but I think that we should not like joe Biden just because he likes trains I see people in the comments saying “JoE BidEn iS a friEnD to ThE rAiLRoAS” like be quiet just because he likes trains dose not make him a good president.
Just because someone likes trains doesn't mean they are a good president
@@user-gc1iv6nv9z I know that why I like trump because he is a good president
Wow, another trump supporter who can’t spell! 🤣
PSR’s actually really fucking awesome though for the company and general operations for certain situations and conditions, like if you’re running a trunk line.
The whole reason PSR’s failing with a whole lotta Class Is is how fast they implemented it, and a lot of the people doing it are corporate sleezebags who shouldn’t be in charge of railroads that just care about the shareholders.
Like for instance, two railroads that really thrive/thrived off PSR was the Illinois Central and the FEC. IC was well off because they had a guy who put the system together through his *own* experiences as a railroader, seeing as EHH worked for the StL-SF for a long while before rising thru the ranks at IC. Not just that, but the IC was in essence a trunk line that had already streamlined the fuck out of its system, save for a few remaining branches and GM&O lines. But for the most part their system meshed the best with how PSR’s *suppost* to work compared to how it’s currently “working” for say, NS or CSX.
FEC’s another situation in a sense of a trunk line. Because of its trackage and its traffic, PSR actually works *perfectly* for it. And it has been. FEC was always a moneymaker after the 1964-1977 strike, but even moreso when one of Harrison’s guys, some MacPherson dude came along for the FEC.
Where’re NS and CSX going wrong though? Well compared to the mostly single mainline systems of the FEC or the IC, they go in all different directions, instead of a single mainline and a few branches or even two mainlines. They have *many* of those with a fuckton of excess facilities that have been cut in an *attempt* to mesh for PSR to work, but has just led to a job heartache and overall a real downturn for both roads.
It isn’t PSR that’s the problem, it’s the people in charge of the big Class Is trying to use it for their own gain that’re the problem.
Essentially, the right tool for the right job.
ZEP in effect.
It still comes down to the almandy dollar
the railroads have prospered because of deregulation, innovation and new technology. let’s remember the havoc that the unions and Democrats wrought before. now they want to do it again. remember the RR’s almost went out of business and have to change with the times. some jobs are better then no jobs.
Time to start regulation the RRs if they can't get their shit together.
Regulation by corrupt, incompetent and utterly dishonest politicians will only collapse the industry faster. Look at the record. Do you trust McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer? Really?
It's not just about jobs. It's about employee and public safety. Cutting more employees off means less maintenance being performed on equipment. Which enhances the likelihood off accidents. Accidents on the railroad could be catastrophic.
The FRA has made it painfully obvious they don't care about enforcing rules and regulations on the carrier. So now it's up to the unions to get someone to enforce these regulations.
The CEOs sound like they hate there jobs
Try 17k ft daily
Um what
Have you Ever Heard so Much Nonsense Spewed in a Room of Overpaid Bean Counters ? 🤪👎
_"When I hired on we had 700,000 employees, and now we have about 150,000."_
Yup, and there was no outcry or congressional investigation to determine what happened, and where all this manpower went.
All this is is some crusty old man yelling at the future for being different.
It’s too bad that the government can’t be more efficient and you’re criticizing private industry for being more fish it sounds like you’ve got a problem Mr.
The unfortunate reality is that railroads are accountable to shareholders and customers. It is a capital intensive industry. The government is quite the opposite. It is accountable to nobody, and has no obligation to be efficient or well managed and in reality has no competition or obligation to produce ganerally accepted accounting statements. Railroads and other industries, for that matter, rewards excellence, government rewards incompetence and people who have an ability to talk volumes and say nothing. There is no incentive for government to be efficient because there are no ties to government salaries and performance. They elect themselves raises.
Because when the government steps in to tell industry how to do it's job, that has always been a good idea, and it has always worked.
Great, attacking someone who is deceased, therefore can not defend themselves. Stay classy committee. (Me, formerly Real Canadian Railfan... I forgot my PW to that channel.)
Hunter biden sucked he is responsible for destroying railroading!!!!
@@tomstarcevich1147 Wrong. And btw, wrong person, dumbass. It's Hunter Harrison. Not Biden
So this is where you've been hiding. OK. Good to hear from you, hope that you can get back into your original channel.
Get a grip on that lisp
Oregon Democrat DeFazio.
This makes me glad I voted for Biden. A friend of the rail industry.
😂
Joe biden sucks he's no freind of anyone 47 yrs in public service and he has done nothing for anyone!!!
My cat voted for biden.
@@franks471 Your cat is a hero.
Just because he likes trains and wants to help the railroads dose not make him a good president
Harrison's competitor peers hated PSR because they were personally threatened by it. Harrison made the railroad-ignorant MBAs and lawyers running America's Class 1 railroads look incompetent. So they vilified him and warned how reckless, dangerous, and bad he was for society.
And some rail customers feared PSR immensely. Because change makes lazy people, comfortable in their ways, and having a worry-free lucrative career despite any semblance of effort, quite worried about their own job security.
After Harrison died, and was no longer a threat to them, they immediately (and obscenely hypocritically) started embracing PSR, knowing that the stock analysts and market would eat it up and instantly boost their stock prices. (...despite it allegedly being such a "terrible idea"....go figure!)
But it was just a grift. America doesn't need to worry about PSR coming to America. The claims by current CEOs to be implementing it is pure bunk.
They co-opted the term "PSR" as the hip acronym to spew. Their version was at worst, nothing. And at best uninspired, traditional, 'same old' cost-cutting.
Don't worry....real PSR died with Harrison. And the clubby cabal of freight railroads will never realize their potential.
The Harrison story is akin to the travesty of Galileo's: An imperfect genius who challenged the status quo....shunned and declared a heretic by those whose status were seriously threatened by his insights.....to only get properly acknowedged AFTER all those endangered by him are finally gone.
Spoken like a true apologist for the hedge funds. There's really no PSR, nothing to see here, just disgruntled employees and customers, let's all just move along.
@@whiteknightcat Nope...just a very happy investor who saw two Cdn. railroad investments soar after HH transformed them from comatose, slow, unreliable make-work projects into 21st century shipping competitors.
Go back to enjoying your daily ration of Soviet gruel.
@@DB-gr7ch I can't, given there hasn't been any new "Soviet" food product for 30 years. If there was, it would be held up in a container in a siding somewhere so the company can keep making you rich at everyone else's expense.
@@whiteknightcat Former debate team captain?
@@whiteknightcat The computer and interent have caused huge turmoil in every industry.......greeting cards, stationary sales, postal service......yet you embrace that change fully, without a peep or losing any sleep.
Change and innovation to improve efficiency are basic tenets of capitalism.
Hypocrisy is never having to say you're wrong.
Democrats ruined the freight railroads for decades with overregulation, always siding with the abusive unions, forcing the freight railroads to maintain money-gobbling passenger service and even government setting shipping rates. It was DEregulation in 1980 under the Staggers Act that saved the freight railroads and allowed them to modernize. Today, Democrats are grousing about PSR while throttling the railroads again with Amtrak. On cross-country routes, Amtrak trains use the freight companies' tracks and gum up the movement of freight trains by taking priority in movement. This not only causes huge and costly delays for the freight companies, but it also is a disaster for the environment. Stopping and starting big, heavy freight trains (often more than 10,000 tons) over and over in order to give Amtrak priority is a big waste of money and energy and causes significant air pollution.
BS the RRoads are greedy corporations !!
Bingo... and the Amtrak train is half-empty. I watch the Cardinal go by 3 days a week. During the pandemic you could see half a dozen people. Still ran 3x weekly w/ normal 4 cars. Now... it's up to normal - half full.
Government creates nothing, improves nothing, and costs a fortune.
And the specific basic services it should provide and must do, it is less and less interested in doing.
The Staggers Act was the work of Democrats - sponsored by a Democrat, supported by Democrats, and signed into law by a Democratic president.
@@JugSouthgate My apologies for correcting your revisionist history but this was in a time where congress actually worked in bi-partisan manner. The bill was co-sponsored by a Republican and passed the Senate 91-4. Sorry to burst your partisan bubble.