I just did this upgrade and this is my first impression. The speaker sounds amazing. I can feel the mid bass more and the vocals sounds fuller. Which I feel makes the imagine have a lot more presence. Next is just doing some measurements for technical curiosity purposes. I’ve always been a klipsch fan starting with the rf7 gen1. After experiencing what this crossover can do, I think klipsch can do better. Especially at the price of these rf7 iii.
@@johnadams3116 I am, kit arrived today but it will be a few weeks before i can do the work. I solder very often with another hobby so no big deal there. I can take pics along the way. This is my 2nd set of RF7 IIIs, first set was replaced under warranty. SPL from a horn took a crap. Knowing what I do now, likely a cross over component. Shame of it is, the first pair sounded amazing, 2nd set sound like completely different speakers and sound like garbage and that god awful klipsch ear fatigue came with this 2nd pair.
@@johnadams3116 meant to also say I’ve just upgraded my amp from a Parasound A23 to a Parasound JC5, the upgrade really highlights the speakers weakness.
I met Paul Klipsch when he spoke at our IEEE meeting when I was in college. He was entertaining and enthusiastic about what he was doing in audio. I can’t imagine he would be happy with the direction his company has been taken. The speakers Danny modified here are not inexpensive speakers. While I understand Klipsch not putting $900 in high quality crossover components in a $4,000/pair speaker, the crossover Danny designed could be implemented for considerably less and still achieve close to what Danny did. This is a really sad example of corporate incompetence more than greed.
@@abboberg I really don’t know how Danny prices his kits but I recently purchased a CSS kit and went with their $400 crossover upgrade. I checked the price of the components and it was about $400. Of course they then made a profit by not having to supply the base crossover. Just a note, I’m not a flat earth’er. I choose the upgrade to get the improved tolerance and therefore insure the speakers crossed over at the designed frequency. If I would have had access to the crossover design, and access to a good capacitor value tester, and access to a lot of $7 capacitors instead of the $60 Jensen Zs to test, then I would have gone with a cheaper solution. Lots of if’s there so I paid my $400 and the speakers sound fantastic. Aided no doubt by the Danny designed No-Res that I packed the speakers with.
@@mabehall7667 The upgrade of my B&W CDM-1NTs was fantastic as well - I have two pair of them, so I was able to A-B compare, and the difference was remarkable. However, I spent over 60 hours building 4 large circuit boards from scratch, and had to layer them (just to squeeze them in there), using shouldered standoffs I made on my metal lathe - not your average DIY project. The whole project took me over 60 hours. I gave my non-upgraded pair to my son - if I ever needed to replace those speakers, I would just buy a pair of pro audio monitors where no games are played by cutting corners with crossovers. I just simply don't have any more time to throw at fixing other people's work. For some, tho, I can understand that it's a labor of love, and much less of a time commitment than building speakers from scratch (with an unknown outcome).
Disagree; I think Klipsch's newer offerings sound better than anything Paul Klipsch ever designed. The horns he used sounded like PA speakers---very nasal. I bought a pair of his floorstanders used at a thrift shop; they sounded so bad I gave them to a buddy
I actually really love the sound of these speakers the way they are. God forbid I go against the grain but I have a dedicated room for these in a 2ch system and they are quite spectacular. They need to be out into the room, well away from walls to sound their best. When given a good amplifier with ample headroom to allow them to get up and dance they are capable of holographic imaging with serious SPL.. and still sound very good. I guess I'm not a real picky hifi enthusiast. I'm easily pleased. These speakers, in my room, are good enough to me that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. Happy listening, whatever your taste. 👌
Nothing shown here would be improved by just placing the speakers away from the wall or giving them a « good amplifier ». Those measurements are horrible, pure and simple. You can like a speaker with a bit of an elevated high, or a small boost in the lows, or just a particular frequency response but this is not what is presented here. That’s a bit odd to say « oh yea I like those major deficiencies ».
Nice that they work for your needs and preferences. I tend to find Klipsch tweeters to be ice picks to my ears, so I generally avoid being around them for very long when they're playing at any real volume. Maybe I've just not heard their stock configuration playing on a suitable amp for them.
At the end if you are happy with the sound , that is all that maters, good for you. The rest of us keep chasing our tails trying to find what you already have...enjoy.
@@Carl-bd1rf I'll believe that. A colored amp, particularly one that slightly or even heavily rolls of the treble, could do wonders to improve the general listenability of Klipsch speakers. If you are a treble-head then it probably wouldn't be your thing, but if you're treble sensitive like I am, well then you're running a warm amp with a tube preamp before Klipsch speakers with their stereotypical tuning become listenable. But honestly, for a lot of people, that is part of the fun of the hobby: tinkering with your setup. With enough tinkering, I believe that there are very few speakers beyond redemption. Klipsch aren't even bad speakers, they just have a very specific tuning to their treble, so fixing that with your setup is entirely feasible. So once you resolve that minor problem with amp selection then you can certainly have a great listening experience. I also learned something recently which I find somewhat interesting: the more sensitive your speakers are, the more the coloration of your amp plays a role in how the speakers end up sounding. I learned this by demoing my KEF iQ90 with their claimed 91dB of sensitivity on the same amps I've heard powering the much less sensitive KEF R3. Their stock tuning is a bit different, but even so, the R3 didn't really change very much in sound signature while the iQ90 on a more V-shaped amp are essentially unlistenable. Put them on a much more neutral amp and they're amazing. The R3 still sound about the same. So, the more you know. And given that Klipsch are often even more sensitive than 91dB, you can bet that they're going to be revealing toward the tuning of your amp and source stack to an extreme degree.
Nice Pulling the loudspeakers way out into the room, well off the front wall... combined with a quality, robust, capable amplifier, is a platform for optimizing most any speaker's sound.
I just love Danny's "disappointed and pissed off look" at the beginning 😍😍😍 his face totally gives away how badly Klipsch have designed and implemented the crossover 😂😂😂
Klipsch Reference series is more attuned for surround sound and watching movies vs listening to music . Klipsch high end speakers are more catered to music but they are ridiculously expensive . Most people buy the Reference and RP speakers as surround sound setups vs a 2 channel stereo set up .
I did my RP600ms. There's a huge positive improvement in the top end. Far less smearing and attenuation of those mid to upper frequencies. Fun project. Very happy with the results.
@@Carl-bd1rf His tube connectors and truck load of no res he’s been trying to get rid of since his mullet was in style should fix all those print marks and tighten up the bass a little.
@@Carl-bd1rf . I built my speaker cabinets out of sand cast resistors just to piss this guy off . Try some tube connectors on your kitchen taps , musical spring fresh water , really brought them to life 👍
I’m Not going to lie I’m interested in trying this. When I heard how much it costed I almost pooped my pants. This is so simple if you don’t like the klipsch sound don’t get klipsch. It’s going to be so much cheaper to buy a speaker with a far cheaper crossover than this improved one and most other speakers and to not buy a speaker and then want to rebuild its crossover, if you’re looking for that flat response and one that measures well klipsch might not be the first choice. I would very much like to have a better crossover while retaining that klipsch sound and if it takes anything away from it which I really hope it wouldn’t with the price. I don’t think I will ever try this product simply because of the cost, also it scares me it would change the sound of the speaker into something that isn’t klipsch, but mostly the cost is ridiculous, you could Buy a whole new set of speakers for basically 2000$. With all due respect that seems insane to me. You talked so much about how well these speakers measure with the “fixed” crossover but I don’t remember you saying they sounded any better, maybe you did and I don’t remember. I feel like your emphasis is so much on they measure so much better but not on if they actually would be more enjoyable and pleasing to the ear for the people who are buying this speaker which are klipsch lovers. For short. would like to hear a trusted die hard klipsch fans reaction to this Improved crossover how it changes the sound of the speaker for the better and does it change that voicing of klipsch speakers that live voicing and if it’s simply worth it to throw another 2g at a speaker that already costs over 4. I feel like Danny is robbing us here with all due respect. Still intrigued but man that price is intense.
I am robbing you with this one huh? If Klipsch designed drivers that didn't need a lot of parts for correcting the response issues then it wouldn't cost so much. The parts are what they are and cost what they cost. You get the whole upgrade kit professionally designed with MUCH higher quality parts for exactly what the parts cost and zero fee (no cost) for all of the design work, and I am robbing you? Also, absolutely it changes the sound of the speaker. It allows you to hear the music cleanly and clearly as recorded rather than the mess it becomes when played though these speakers. Customer feedback on this one has been overwhelmingly good as well.
@@dannyrichie9743 good to hear. What you said sounded dangerously close to you’re not making any profit off this. Is that what you’re saying, that what it costs you is what your charge is therefor you would not be making any money off it.
@@dannyrichie9743 to me I hear the music very cleanly and clearly so you’re not really selling me there. I’d love to try it but I don’t think it’s worth it to me. do what you do man and I think I might of thought the price was more than it actually is, how much is it again? It’s cool you do what you do gives people more possibilities just some things like the way you say things annoy me I guess. Like you say it fixes it, to who’s standards. Your standards or John does standards might be completely different than someone else’s and what there ears like. Idk it’s just like you’re trying to focus on selling your product too much and not really being transparent with us and kinda one sided ig it seems to me. Maybe to people who aren’t as experienced in your field would watch you video and it would paint a much different picture to them then it should if you would stand on the fence than on one side or the other. Idk it’s hard to convey it into word but I tried my best. I don’t think you’re a bad guy you’re trying to run a business but you have to understand not everyone is a die hard experienced audiophile like you and that has your ears. To some people getting this crossover may degrade from the experience of the speaker as a whole in the form of them not liking the difference of sound rather or not you think it fixes it or not fixing the frequency response on paper, obviously that isn’t everything and how much of the picture it takes up is up for debate. everyone has different preferences and if you took more time to explain that maybe it would fix some things. Maybe it wouldn’t maybe to everyone that heard the rf7iiis with your new crossover they would like it who’s knows. Cheers. Do you do any of your products on a free trial, lol I would love to hear it.. I may be expecting a lil to much here feeling how I do but just my opinion like I said I do you but maybe my story did something..
@@daveycrockett5738 Let me take this one first. We don't make a lot of margin on crossover parts. We buy in bulk as much as we can so that we can make some margin. It is usually 20 to 30%. Considering all of the time I have invested in the design work, I have to sell a dozen of these or so to break even. I do it because it helps people. It gets them into the DIY hobby, and even as a loss leader it is good advertising. The customer feedback is really the best advertising I could buy. Our forum on the Audio Circle is full of it.
Secondly, let me dispel the notion that the improvement in performance is subjective or debatable. No one ever says they prefer the sound of having all of the detail smeared together rather then it being clear. No one ever decides they like the frequency response all jacked up and the tweeter level 4db louder then the woofers over a smooth and balanced sound. No one ever says they prefer when everything arrives out of phase and broken apart in the time domain over the sigal arriving in phase, coherent, and complete. No one ever says they like it when everything sounds flat and on the plane of the speakers or sound coming straight out of the speakers over a three dimensional and layered sound stage with separation and space around everything. Often (and to many of us) when we hear what speakers are capable of versus what we get from them when they are new then we do tend to think that they were broken from the factory. We realize they were built to a price point and not built to perform. For many people being able to fix them is a blessing.
Holy Moley, they were selling this for $2200 with that kind of frequency response?? 🤨 And they had the audacity to call it their "Reference" series?? What were they thinking... yikes.
That is quite an improvement.... Good job! I would still never buy a pair of Klipsch anything, I don't like horn tweeters, period. But if a pair of these were given to me I'd strongly consider the upgrade now seeing what they could become. Cheers 🍻
Thanks Danny, I just placed an order for this kit. I have been hoping someone would send you this speaker to upgrade. I can speak for the fact that the vertical off axis has a huge audible hole. Every time I stand up, it sounds like something is covering the speakers. Also, I couldn't figure out why the tweeter fell off so much when I ran my sweeps now I know. I will inform you if I find a $1000 worth of improvement.
I hope they work for you, let us know. I think your going to get a LOT of Better imaging and Dynamic range! I think its going to be night and Day Different
@@KirkLazurus Well they do as described. The speakers now sound well either sitting or standing in the room and the speakers now crossover and aim correctly.
if they would have used cheap parts and your design it would not cost that much more in the first place!!!! its crap, they knew it and they dont care. nice work ntl
All Klipsch have done is put the same drivers in a bigger cabinet having not doing any measurements at all they are not alone in doing this!It is amazing what Richie manages to do expensive but worth it if anybody has a pair
"Worth it" as in what money you've saved in not buying a better speaker versus how much time it takes to build and install custom circuit boards from scratch. I spent over 60 hours upgrading my B&W CDM-1NT speakers, and it made a very significant improvement in sound quality, but I could have saved that time by buying higher end speakers or studio monitors.
This speaker would have been an EXCELLENT example of the difference a good network makes. I can imagine if you have a speaker like this again, setting it up in your room there and recording a song before and after the upgrade. Then A/B compare them by switching live in the video. You could even make it blind by not telling us which is which.
It would be easier if we had both speakers in house, plus we would have to build out one of the crossovers as when we're designing them we're using cheap caps and alligator clips. But even then we'd be stuck playing them in Mono. It's not an ideal means of comparison. The videos Danny did on the RP 600M a couple years ago had an AB with stock vs upgraded.
I've always believed that test measurments are highly overrated; some of the most engaging speakers I've ever heard had horrible specs. I'm a big fan of newer Klipsch bookshelf speakers--they sound bright, dynamic, energetic
@@bobking7347 Which means absolutely nothing. You cannot translate specs into what each listener will find pleasing to the ear---that's like telling someone "this speaker has great specs, so you have no choice but to like the way it sounds"
This review has caused me to lose a great deal of respect for Klipsch speakers and their incredibly poor measured performance. When shopping for a new pair of speakers, I'll definitely be looking for another manufacturer!
Lmao . This guy doesn't think any big brand is any good, anyway, so buy what you think sounds good for you.. and not the measurements that look good on this guy's system, ignore fool that tries to fool you.
Klipsch RP and RF speakers have never been sold as or marketed as high end speakers. It's only the internet hype and their general popularity that makes people think of them so highly. The Heritage line when properly implemented can be amazing but the RF and RP line are polarizing. People either love them or hate them. And the people who love them don't care one whit about Danny or his measurements.
I've been installing this kit. It's the second GR Kit that I've done. The amount of parts in the high circuit was crazy. I think it was 4 inductors, 4 resistors, and 3 capacitors. The inductor for the lower woofer is bigger than the whole factory crossover. And the no-rez really deadens the cabinet. I've almost got one back together, and I'm going to listen to the modded one and stock one together for awhile to AB them. I think the hardest part is trying to find all the room in the cabinet for the parts needed to fix the speakers. I'm not sure people understand that these inductors are wound OFC Copper, thus the reason for the cost people complain about, and the reason the manufacturers cut corners here. That's just how it is. I also read a recent article that about 1/3 of dudes alive today don't own a drill, so I'm sure even fewer own a soldering iron. Probably hardly anyone owns both, thus, they won't be doing this type of install.
I have the RF-7 I's and they desperately need to be a 2.5 way. I am shocked the III's still have crappy radioshack plastic binding posts. 2K a piece tower speaker and plastic binding post nuts should not be in the same sentence.
Their biggest center channels are also still 2-way speakers. The RC 64-III we have up next is an absolute mess, especially off axis. It desperately needs to be a 2.5 way speaker as well..
I love the thumbnail/teaser photo of this video! I'm glad there's someone else beside me that cannot stand how any Klipsch speaker I have heard over many, many years sounds.
Question With the upgraded crossover now the acoustic center has been raised. This definitely helps when sitting in a normal chair but what about in a reclined theater chair. In that position now the acoustic center would be seem to be off axis to your ears. Question: When the original measurements were made I do not see the plinth riser. The plinth riser is to angle the original acoustic center more towards your ears. Maybe the design is geared exclusively to home theater. Thank You for all the time you spend helping enthusiasts.
So what is the point of buying Klipsch or other not so cheap speakers, if there is a need to upgrade those factory crossovers? I've been saving money to buy this exact Klipsch model but it looks like its nothing but a waste of money because there is " hole " in sound delivery. Might as well look for something else. I hate buying Chinese speakers but the Arendals more and more seemingly would offer more bang for the buck and a better buy. Better crossovers, better aesthetics, etc. The Klipsch is a fixer upper. Its like buying a Corvette C8 but there is a " need " to change this and that so you get its maximum performance potential, otherwise a lot of people in the know will hang their heads low because a factory stock Corvette is not good enough due to shitty and cheap components.
Manufacturers really need to cleanup their act with part quality on their flagship products. A product costing $4000 retail a pair needs to have a better crossover design and better parts.
I've never done anything like this before. I would really need a full walk through video before I considered spending that kind of money and potentially damaging these speakers. Would you be willing to make one? Or do you have one already with any other speakers that would give me a better idea if this is something I could take on myself?
I'm glad you can put into words what I hear whenever I buy (and promptly return) Klipsch speakers, most recently the RP600m based on another youtubers positive review. Maybe I'll try these new 600m's...but I'm pretty pleased with my Polk R200's. I'd have to be really really convinced of something special to try a Klipsch again after all these years.
Just stop buying Klipsch... If you are bouncing between Klipsch and Polk you obviously need to spend more time finding out what you really like. You would be flat out finding two more diametrically opposed speakers. Ear bleeding shrill to fat and bloated midrange. Have a listen to more brands to see what is out there. Took me ages to find my sound. Ignore reviews, let your ears decide what you like, then narrow your search from there.
The 600M-IIs are an improvement, but are still bright up top. Imo, they only sound "good" when listening 20+30° off-axis. Makes for a decent soundstage, but imagining suffere in the process. On axis they get fatiguing after a short while.
@@hoth2112 there is no such thing as a good sounding Klipsch speaker, only a less worse one. Any time you get listening fatigue, that is you brain telling you it is in pain. Listening to it off axis is just masking a fundamental flaw in the speaker on the whole. There are so many good speakers on the market, there is no need to torture your ears listening to harsh Klipsch.
You’re hurting yourself buying these budget speakers full price. Get them used and get them dirt cheap. They’re built to a price and spending more than $150 feels like being ripped off.
For a 6000 dollar pair of speakers, you'd expect better parts. I would spend 6000 on these only to have to do an upgrade to them. I wonder what the upgraded 8000f doubt like in comparison to these upgraded? Are they close enough to not need to consider the rf7iii?
I went for the jbl 3800 instead of these. I rly wanted to like the rf7, they have a great 10" slam, but the sound overall is not worth it at ALL. The jbl's and the rf7 cost the same here (6700$) the rf7 mids is the worst part of the speaker.. most ppl who praises the rf7 or is typical americans , they get them very cheap on amazon for example, and most of them have never had some real speakers before, then ofc the rf7 gonna sound amazing.
Why to fix stuff wich is crap ? Just buy something good. The sad thing is, people buy this cheap stuff anyway (klipsch marketing wins) and think its awesome and the best for the price
Even "good" speakers are still full of cheap parts that will rob the speaker of it's full potential. It's not until you start spending serious money ($20K and up) on retail speakers for the crossover parts quality to really start to change. Even PS Audios new FR30 speaker uses budget poly caps. Definitely better than dirt cheap electrolytic caps, but there's still performance left on the table.
@@hoth2112 you can always tweak arround and find something better. But a higher priced and more engineered product has better parts in it, otherwise they will dont have a higher price (an mostly they dont spend the money into marketing). But for me i dont see any sense to tune a klipsch. The drivers are cheap, the wood, the horn…its all mass produced, save the money for the Tuning Kit, instead buy something wich already has good / better parts
Even if they were a lot cheaper, I would not buy a pair. There are a lot of better speakers for less money, especially if you are willing to buy second hand.
Would you consider reviewing something in the Polk Audio Reserve series? Perhaps the R500, or R600, or R700, which all the youtube reviewers seem to be raving about. It would be interesting to see how their measured performance compares with their perceived pleasant sound. Thanks for your consideration.
@@dannyrichie9743 someone would need to send him the speakers. Those R700 look like beasts! Im considering getting them and if I do I would definitely get Danny’s help with the crossover’s. I have the R200 in my garage and I like them👍🏻🔈
@@JR-ho5qm Why would you bother buying them expecting them to need a crossover change? Just buy what you enjoy. And the idea that they could be better with a crossover change doesn't fly as you have no idea what they sound like currently and for the money spent plus the new crossover you could have just purchased something you liked in the first place. Also, what if it's one of the speakers he doesn't think needs much done? Then you just wasted your money all around. Hell, just order one of his kits if you think he knows what's going to sound best for you.
@@davep2945 almost any speaker you buy under 10000$ can benefit from having higher quality crossover parts. Even if it’s just higher quality parts of equal value without a network change. It’s no different than souping up a car, kinda fun to have something a bit better than it was intended to be.
@@JR-ho5qm Hey, if you've got the scratch and that's your thing, go for it. But I am curious as to why more viewers don't just order his kits if they believe in his methods. I've found well designed kits to be a far better value both dollar wise and performance wise.
@@dannyrichie9743 nah its fine...I don't listen to measurements..if that's how you listen to a speaker then good for you...I like what I like...I don't buy a speaker so I can buy this dudes upgrade material....why do you think 99% of the speakers reviewed are bad? Oh because he will make something to sell you that sounds better to him? F THAT! I listen to what sounds good to me...you guys are sheep...followers.. .oh he says it's bad so it's bad....look at the graph...I must buy what he's selling me...oh he makes expensive cables too?...well shit that will make my speaker sound better...lmao.
@@maddog3454 Yeah, you would think folks would enjoy what they enjoy but so many are just what you said, sheep. They enjoyed the speakers until they saw a graph online and then suddenly they didn't enjoy the speakers. Umm, what? So I suppose if these same folks listened to a speaker they didn't like but then ol' Dan showed them a graph of it's response that he liked well, hot damn, now they love it? Yep, best speaker they ever heard, in fact. Some folks you just can't help though. The only thing that ever really bothered me about this channel was Dan claiming he was "fixing" a speaker. I've sent him a few messages about this but he doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word fix. See, in order to fix something it has to be broken. If the binding post were broken off and he replaced it then he would be fixing something. But to modify a frequency response, level mach or improve phase relationship are just that modifications. Why? Because there is no absolute standard to which these things must conform or else be considered out of spec or broken. If a speaker did not measure within a certain tolerance to it's factory engineered response then one might correctly state they fixed it by bringing it into factory spec. However, to make your own decision on what that spec should be and then claim you fixed it by realigning it to your own chosen specification is ego and marketing speaking.
@@maddog3454He is making upgrades to speakers. Unfortunately a lot of speakers are designed poorly. Many owners of these speakers don’t care about these upgrades and use them happily as they are designed from the factory, fine for them. Danny is not forcing you to buy these kits, it is totally up to yourself. But he knows what he is doing and his knowledge and tests confirms this. If you don’t believe in him, then don’t. Nobody is forcing you. Danny has his business, and the fact that some believe that these upgrades are plainly for him to cash in on poorly built speakers from factory don’t see the point and does not take into account his knowledge through 28 years of loudspeaker design. He clearly knows what he is doing.
Another successful x-over makeover and some lucky guy’s ears saved from mediocre sound quality. I bet that dip at 1000-1500Hz must have been pretty audible, plus a roughly 10dB variance in output across the entire frequency range.
I listened to these in a store once, it was my first time hearing modern Klipsch, and boy howdy was I not impressed with these. Your measurements and explanation perfectly matches what I heard, as I was standing....
I want to see you make kits for Arendal speakers or Atlantic technology or other direct to consumer/specialist brands. I can’t stand getting bad quality for a lot of money
Dany it seem to me that speakers are made like this for a sound reason not on to measure well cause every audio maker has there own sound that they sell.becuase most don't have a clue on how music should sound . And they bank on that know matter how much they spend it's their sound!!!. Not yours
What a salesman you are. I do most of my listening in my workshop / studio or during parties / gatherings - like probably 90%+ of folks buying these speakers. If I have to add $1900 in “non-cheesie” additions so I can listen in my easy chair, I would be wasting money. I asked you once to explain those graphs that are supposed to bolster your opinions. However you never did. As such, they seem like props! Maybe one of these days I will understand.
Ich frage mich was die Entwickler so den ganzen Tag machen? Merken die nicht diese Diskrepanzen? Für teures Geld so ein Crossover. Ein Witz. Verfolge jedes Video aus Europa. Hier gibt es nichts vergleichbares. 👍🇩🇪👍👍
Klipsch and Bose are the LAST speakers I would ever buy, and you're right Klipsch speakers are ugly shouty in your face ear bleeders. Only people that don't have a clue what good speakers should sound like buy them.
@Not My Fault, You Asked For It While you are sitting there with your head wrapped in tin foil the Hope plant planning to expand to three shift for the workers
Danny, It wasn't super clear...... to me..... if the price was for a pair or a single speaker. You made mention that it was for a single speaker, but maybe that was just for the parts per speaker?
I'm sure Klipsch isn't the only manufacturer building to a price point, but they should be embarrassed by what they put out. On the other hand, if they developed it with your crossover, they'd probably lose much of their consumers. They need to find a happy medium. Anyway, nice job on the redesign!
Perception is reality. If a consumer feels they sound good, whether they compare or not, then the consumer is happy enough to buy the product. You don’t know what you got til you compare a product to another that is better or worse. It’s a matter of: education, taste, and budget.
@@freone111 Pretty sure it wouldn't cost them much for better components . They'd order mass quantities at a discount for one . The difference may be around $100 to be honest .
I have to wonder if crossovers like these are simply calculated with some type of software without any listening or testing to doublecheck the actual response. Seeing measured response charts makes me wonder how could a $4k speaker be released into the marketplace with glaring issues that are somewhat obvious. 🤷🏻♂️
If Danny is selling his xover at 900, it probably would cost Klipsh 500 in cost of goods sold. That would double their sale price. Best to buy the speakers used and add Danny's xover and have great speakers at less than retail.
Wouldn't it make sense to use an iron-core inductor for the lower woofer? I've seen an article showing that distortion of the iron-core inductors on frequences less than 500 Hz is still pretty low (as I recall, less than 0.1%).
We did try that option as well, but it didn't sound right with the iron core inductor compared to the air core when designing the new network. The RF7-II & 8000F upgrade kits both used iron cores for the lower woofer.
@@hoth2112Sorry, you mean it didn't sound right to include an iron core inductor for marketing reasons, or it didn't sound right, because somehow its core hysteresis/signal distortion is audible, while that of output transformers of valve amplifiers you favour is not ? Increased losses and lower damping make for a more pronounced bass, if less accurate. In any case, driver distortion will trump that of iron core coil by quite a margin at LF. To put things into perspective, what's the DCR of that air core, more than R7 ?
@@paulb4661 Tonally speaking, it didn't sound right. I dont have a better description The iron core we were using was also a much higher value than the air core. If we wanted to swap to an iron core of the same value, we would need to have had them custom made for us as it's not a value we normally carry in iron cores.
How can a company as big as Klipsch produce such a shitty crossover? I would think they'd have people in their team that would know how to design a crossover.
@@EskWIRED They could have still used the cheesy parts and still designed a crossover that would have addressed the phase issues and frequency response peaks. So it isn't just about the budget. They could have done a better job.
Trust me, they know how to design a crossover. A lot of folks who come to this channel think what Danny does is extremely difficult but with the right test equipment it's really not. The reason Klipsch doesn't bother with a more sophisticated design or worry one whit about what some dude on the internet thinks about their speakers is because they don't have to. People know the Klipsch name so they will go and have a listen. A good many of these folks like what they hear and buy the speakers never once wondering what some key board warrior thinks about their purchase. They don't care about measurements, crossover parts, resonance, ringing or anything else an audio snoot might denigrate to feel superior about their own ideas or purchases. Remember, while this channel features a lot of Klipsch products they still only represent a fraction of a fraction of all the Klipsch products sold every year much less over the life of the company. Most buyers are either completely satisfied with their purchase or smart and industrious enough to send it back if they aren't. Return periods of even just 30 days are more than long enough to get enough break in to know the character of a speaker so if one keeps it even though they still don't like it that's on them. And the folks whining about things like vinyl finishes or plastic binding posts on expensive speakers but buying them anyway just need to shut up. No one forced them to buy those products and the offending items were there from the beginning so, again, that's on them. What you tolerate you validate. Klipsch already made their money even on the haters dime.
The initial measurement put up is not what one would hear seated, listening to these Klipsch speakers. The tweeter height is way above ear level when sitting in your listening chair on these speakers which is where the measured response got a lot smoother. Danny would know this & you can tell that his computer chair still doesn’t get him to tweeter height which is a lot higher than normal listening chairs. Although the speakers still need a lot of work :) just would like a fair review. Not a big Klipsch fan but do have these as surrounds. Nice result in the end Danny.
The speaker is setting on a lift table behind me. It is about 10" off of the floor. Even if you do get your ear to near the mid woofer level, the overall room response is still all over the place.
@@dannyrichie9743 you are right, results were still not great. Albeit better than your first measurement. These speakers for unknown reasons were never meant to be listened to with tweeter at ear level. If I was using these as stereo speakers & really enjoyed them, I would ant this upgrade myself :) Happy listening.
We've got several more to do ASAP, weve been swamped the last 3 months and are finally getting caught up and can start upgrades again. We got lots to come soon.
No. The airspace taken up by the damping layer is offset by the 1" layer of foam that covers it. Plus you can also reinstall the original foam sheets over the norez, or use fiberglass/rockwool insulation or polyfill to further control standing waves and internal reflections.
As Danny described it, yes technically it uses up some airspace, but the material used in the NoRez slows down and dampens the back waves inside the box so much that if anything it ‘acts’ like a larger enclosure in the end.
@@rehn1kri Technically speaking, it lowers the Q and somewhat f of panel resonances present, by increasing mass and dissipation due to friction. To do anything for Cab, fb and air column resonances, you go for fibreglass or similar fill and dissipate energy, especially at antinodes, where the velocity is at its maximum and sound pressure the opposite.
You should be thanking Klipsch they seem to be keeping you in business. Because every time you turn around somebody’s sending you another pair of Klipsch speakers to get them to sound right.
I have two pair of the 8060 fa first generation and those things pound concrete they sound absolutely phenomenal when it comes to listening to what I like to listen to which is 70s progressive rock from Alan Parsons all the way forward to yes.. I would truly enjoy Junior researches impression of the 8060 Fa for comparison please do so thank you
The front baffle fell forward on 1 of my bnib Klipsch RF 7 IIIs ! Came Right Off ! Woofers N All ! Still Attatched ! They Did Not Apply Enough Glue ! Funny Mass Produced in Hope ! TO MUCH !
@@hoth2112 basically forte drivers in a tower, very awesome, considering Bob Crites titanium tweeter diaphragm and cap update, any thoughts would be welcome
People should really move over those mediocre Klipsch speakers... try Arendal, Monitor Audio, ProAc or KLH speakers, there's a Day and Night difference.
I don't care for the reference line much, but the Klipsch heritage line is great, the heresy and forte are very good. I'd like to see you do some vintage speaker upgrades and see what you think, original klh model 5? Hpm 100? Just a thought.
@@JukeboxAlley Amazing how thousands of satisfied buyers don't think it needs any help at all. But because one dude sends a pair in and they don't meet Dan's preferred specs suddenly all those folks are wrong. Nope, they just like what they like. No one is the all powerful arbiter of how a speaker should sound or measure. If you enjoy them then F what anyone else thinks. We're not talking about people receiving a counterfeit version of a life saving medicine that doesn't follow the definitive formula needed to make it work. We're talking about personal enjoyment and taste which is entirely subjective.
Thank you for all your upgrades. But you sold me on your kits are better. I love my white piano finish XLSs. Patiently been waiting for the X-CS and X-MTM videos? I know you have no control over supplies and material that are not available. Substituting ideal parts (original T26SG, mills, Erse) sucks. I hope I am still alive or have not lost my hearing by the time all the X--CS videos come out.
It is good to know that there are those who can and share the information, it turns out that companies do not always do a good job for the product and it is good to have professionals like you to give us the opportunity to see that it is worthwhile and can be corrected and improved
With these overseas mfd offerings below the Heritage line, I'm guessing Klipsch simply pursues perceived value, perceived capability. I'm out of my field of expertise... but that's my take having explored all things audio since the 70's. I own ten Klipsch speakers, across four different models (RB/RF)... none of which have I used for years. Nevertheless, like all the gear I've owned, each contribute in being elements in my audio journey... (experiments, long term listening, measurements, disassembly, mods, etc.). I can't imagine how many hundreds of thousands Klipsch products have been sold over the past 25yrs or so. Not sure about elsewhere, but in the US they're fucking everywhere! Mammoth marketing (RF/RB) plus Heritage line = Perceived value Perceived performance
I ve had my RF7 iii for a few years and like how they sound in Movies and don't think they are harsh. In music though it's a totally different story. I can't listen to more than 2-3 songs at once, I get fatigue and have to turn it down or off. Would this be related to the stock crossover design? Can I expect improvement in that area with this upgrade? Or is this just how Klipsch speakers are naturally? Thanks
I knew mine were off. To compensate I rotated the plinths around 180 degrees and cranked the spikes in the rear as high as they will go and removed the front ones so they are pointing straight at me plus they are toed in about 20 degrees each. Looks funny but works for me. My 300Bs make em sing. Had RF5s prior and Response 2s prior to those.
I'm talking about the audio not the consumer.as a. Person we don't get trained on how audio file sound would be like.and audio makers know this.its money tests on people that's what they use to sell audio there name sells and that what people base there prefrance on the name mostly not true sound.
This is exactly the kind of upgrade I want to do to my KLF-30s. I've had them for 25ish years and have wanted to upgrade them for a long time. One 12" bass, One 12" mid-base, and tying in and balancing out the horns with the crossover and internal wire upgrade in a DIY kit. I'm not opposed to swapping mid-horn out for another speaker and replacing the tweeter for a titanium upgrade. If you had the kit I'd buy it, I know they're old, but still capable speakers. I'm using way more power than needed for these speakers. Mark Levinson No 26 amp, with a tweeked Nakamichi Ca-7 preamp.
If a brand new speaker needs to be worked on to sound good then its simple don't buy it .it doesn't make sense.you buy a speaker then you send it to get "Worked on " .you just buy a better speaker fron the start n
So is it essential that people use a measuring meter when they listen to music on the Klipsch loudspeakers or they won't pick up the dips in frequencies?
There are some UA-cam channels dedicated to A-B comparisons, which in theory should tell you something, but even with my high end monitors, I can't really tell enough difference to make a buying decision. I did upgrade my B&W speakers with Danny's kit, but I doubt a mic'd comparison could reveal the richness of the sound in the upgraded speakers.
Most cases, we only get one speaker and all of the crossover designs are done externally using clips, which aren't ideal for sound quality. Danny has done A-B clips with the smaller RP600M, as that was a pair we built out and compared the stock to upgraded.
He has said multiple times that he doesn't listen to the speakers at all. Just runs tests and adjusts to his preferred graph. Sometimes I would say the measurements are better and sometimes they aren't worth the effort but no matter the sound will only be changed. To you it may be better or it may not be. Plenty of people love the speakers Danny denigrates. And plenty of people think he's some sort of guru with this singular knowledge no one else possesses. Well, except for Andrew Jones because that's the only other speaker designer these folks know of. So they'll ignore the fact the Elac's budget to upper tier speakers use budget crossovers because, well, Andrew.
Wow, you talking about time alignment just turned the light bulb on, I always find myself lowering my ears to where it sounds better, it's something I have suspected, you confirmed it. My Monitor Audio speakers included.
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I just did this upgrade and this is my first impression. The speaker sounds amazing. I can feel the mid bass more and the vocals sounds fuller. Which I feel makes the imagine have a lot more presence. Next is just doing some measurements for technical curiosity purposes.
I’ve always been a klipsch fan starting with the rf7 gen1. After experiencing what this crossover can do, I think klipsch can do better. Especially at the price of these rf7 iii.
Any pics on your crossovers, how is the sound now, there is another break-in period from what I've been reading
i’ve purchased Danny’s cross over for the RF7III and would love to see pics of the cross over layout.
@@brentshock3787 are you doing these yourself?, I would have loved to but I haven't the time
@@johnadams3116 I am, kit arrived today but it will be a few weeks before i can do the work. I solder very often with another hobby so no big deal there.
I can take pics along the way. This is my 2nd set of RF7 IIIs, first set was replaced under warranty. SPL from a horn took a crap. Knowing what I do now, likely a cross over component. Shame of it is, the first pair sounded amazing, 2nd set sound like completely different speakers and sound like garbage and that god awful klipsch ear fatigue came with this 2nd pair.
@@johnadams3116 meant to also say I’ve just upgraded my amp from a Parasound A23 to a Parasound JC5, the upgrade really highlights the speakers weakness.
Remember this guy is also a business man and salesman
I met Paul Klipsch when he spoke at our IEEE meeting when I was in college. He was entertaining and enthusiastic about what he was doing in audio. I can’t imagine he would be happy with the direction his company has been taken.
The speakers Danny modified here are not inexpensive speakers. While I understand Klipsch not putting $900 in high quality crossover components in a $4,000/pair speaker, the crossover Danny designed could be implemented for considerably less and still achieve close to what Danny did. This is a really sad example of corporate incompetence more than greed.
Of course, you are paying for Danny's excellent engineering. I couldn't do it for that price.
@@abboberg I really don’t know how Danny prices his kits but I recently purchased a CSS kit and went with their $400 crossover upgrade. I checked the price of the components and it was about $400. Of course they then made a profit by not having to supply the base crossover. Just a note, I’m not a flat earth’er. I choose the upgrade to get the improved tolerance and therefore insure the speakers crossed over at the designed frequency. If I would have had access to the crossover design, and access to a good capacitor value tester, and access to a lot of $7 capacitors instead of the $60 Jensen Zs to test, then I would have gone with a cheaper solution. Lots of if’s there so I paid my $400 and the speakers sound fantastic. Aided no doubt by the Danny designed No-Res that I packed the speakers with.
@@mabehall7667 The upgrade of my B&W CDM-1NTs was fantastic as well - I have two pair of them, so I was able to A-B compare, and the difference was remarkable. However, I spent over 60 hours building 4 large circuit boards from scratch, and had to layer them (just to squeeze them in there), using shouldered standoffs I made on my metal lathe - not your average DIY project. The whole project took me over 60 hours. I gave my non-upgraded pair to my son - if I ever needed to replace those speakers, I would just buy a pair of pro audio monitors where no games are played by cutting corners with crossovers. I just simply don't have any more time to throw at fixing other people's work. For some, tho, I can understand that it's a labor of love, and much less of a time commitment than building speakers from scratch (with an unknown outcome).
@@abboberg Hey, I’m with you. Spent more time than I expected.
Disagree; I think Klipsch's newer offerings sound better than anything Paul Klipsch ever designed. The horns he used sounded like PA speakers---very nasal. I bought a pair of his floorstanders used at a thrift shop; they sounded so bad I gave them to a buddy
I actually really love the sound of these speakers the way they are. God forbid I go against the grain but I have a dedicated room for these in a 2ch system and they are quite spectacular. They need to be out into the room, well away from walls to sound their best. When given a good amplifier with ample headroom to allow them to get up and dance they are capable of holographic imaging with serious SPL.. and still sound very good.
I guess I'm not a real picky hifi enthusiast. I'm easily pleased.
These speakers, in my room, are good enough to me that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
Happy listening, whatever your taste. 👌
Nothing shown here would be improved by just placing the speakers away from the wall or giving them a « good amplifier ». Those measurements are horrible, pure and simple. You can like a speaker with a bit of an elevated high, or a small boost in the lows, or just a particular frequency response but this is not what is presented here. That’s a bit odd to say « oh yea I like those major deficiencies ».
Nice that they work for your needs and preferences. I tend to find Klipsch tweeters to be ice picks to my ears, so I generally avoid being around them for very long when they're playing at any real volume. Maybe I've just not heard their stock configuration playing on a suitable amp for them.
At the end if you are happy with the sound , that is all that maters, good for you. The rest of us keep chasing our tails trying to find what you already have...enjoy.
@@Carl-bd1rf I'll believe that. A colored amp, particularly one that slightly or even heavily rolls of the treble, could do wonders to improve the general listenability of Klipsch speakers. If you are a treble-head then it probably wouldn't be your thing, but if you're treble sensitive like I am, well then you're running a warm amp with a tube preamp before Klipsch speakers with their stereotypical tuning become listenable. But honestly, for a lot of people, that is part of the fun of the hobby: tinkering with your setup. With enough tinkering, I believe that there are very few speakers beyond redemption. Klipsch aren't even bad speakers, they just have a very specific tuning to their treble, so fixing that with your setup is entirely feasible. So once you resolve that minor problem with amp selection then you can certainly have a great listening experience. I also learned something recently which I find somewhat interesting: the more sensitive your speakers are, the more the coloration of your amp plays a role in how the speakers end up sounding. I learned this by demoing my KEF iQ90 with their claimed 91dB of sensitivity on the same amps I've heard powering the much less sensitive KEF R3. Their stock tuning is a bit different, but even so, the R3 didn't really change very much in sound signature while the iQ90 on a more V-shaped amp are essentially unlistenable. Put them on a much more neutral amp and they're amazing. The R3 still sound about the same. So, the more you know. And given that Klipsch are often even more sensitive than 91dB, you can bet that they're going to be revealing toward the tuning of your amp and source stack to an extreme degree.
Nice
Pulling the loudspeakers way out into the room, well off the front wall... combined with a quality, robust, capable amplifier, is a platform for optimizing most any speaker's sound.
I just love Danny's "disappointed and pissed off look" at the beginning 😍😍😍 his face totally gives away how badly Klipsch have designed and implemented the crossover 😂😂😂
What program are you using to measure? Will Klipsch repair these under warranty? I have both the 600m ii and the RP-8000 ii
who buys fkn klipsch gross
Klipsch Reference series is more attuned for surround sound and watching movies vs listening to music . Klipsch high end speakers are more catered to music but they are ridiculously expensive . Most people buy the Reference and RP speakers as surround sound setups vs a 2 channel stereo set up .
Thats still no excuse to use cheap components
I did my RP600ms. There's a huge positive improvement in the top end. Far less smearing and attenuation of those mid to upper frequencies. Fun project. Very happy with the results.
Those are expensive speakers u already spent a lot and now u spent more. Just buy a GR kit speaker one time
I already owned the speakers. I wasn't happy with the sound and I enjoyed the project. Sure there's cheaper ways to get better value. And?
@ Trey Dempsey . Haha less smearing 🤣🤣 . What measurement can I see this in ? Haha
@@Carl-bd1rf His tube connectors and truck load of no res he’s been trying to get rid of since his mullet was in style should fix all those print marks and tighten up the bass a little.
@@Carl-bd1rf . I built my speaker cabinets out of sand cast resistors just to piss this guy off . Try some tube connectors on your kitchen taps , musical spring fresh water , really brought them to life 👍
I’m
Not going to lie I’m interested in trying this. When I heard how much it costed I almost pooped my pants. This is so simple if you don’t like the klipsch sound don’t get klipsch. It’s going to be so much cheaper to buy a speaker with a far cheaper crossover than this improved one and most other speakers and to not buy a speaker and then want to rebuild its crossover, if you’re looking for that flat response and one that measures well klipsch might not be the first choice. I would very much like to have a better crossover while retaining that klipsch sound and if it takes anything away from it which I really hope it wouldn’t with the price. I don’t think I will ever try this product simply because of the cost, also it scares me it would change the sound of the speaker into something that isn’t klipsch, but mostly the cost is ridiculous, you could
Buy a whole new set of speakers for basically 2000$. With all due respect that seems insane to me. You talked so much about how well these speakers measure with the “fixed” crossover but I don’t remember you saying they sounded any better, maybe you did and I don’t remember. I feel like your emphasis is so much on they measure so much better but not on if they actually would be more enjoyable and pleasing to the ear for the people who are buying this speaker which are klipsch lovers. For short. would like to hear a trusted die hard klipsch fans reaction to this Improved crossover how it changes the sound of the speaker for the better and does it change that voicing of klipsch speakers that live voicing and if it’s simply worth it to throw another 2g at a speaker that already costs over 4. I feel like Danny is robbing us here with all due respect. Still intrigued but man that price is intense.
I am robbing you with this one huh? If Klipsch designed drivers that didn't need a lot of parts for correcting the response issues then it wouldn't cost so much. The parts are what they are and cost what they cost. You get the whole upgrade kit professionally designed with MUCH higher quality parts for exactly what the parts cost and zero fee (no cost) for all of the design work, and I am robbing you? Also, absolutely it changes the sound of the speaker. It allows you to hear the music cleanly and clearly as recorded rather than the mess it becomes when played though these speakers. Customer feedback on this one has been overwhelmingly good as well.
@@dannyrichie9743 good to hear. What you said sounded dangerously close to you’re not making any profit off this. Is that what you’re saying, that what it costs you is what your charge is therefor you would not be making any money off it.
@@dannyrichie9743 to me I hear the music very cleanly and clearly so you’re not really selling me there. I’d love to try it but I don’t think it’s worth it to me. do what you do man and I think I might of thought the price was more than it actually is, how much is it again? It’s cool you do what you do gives people more possibilities just some things like the way you say things annoy me I guess. Like you say it fixes it, to who’s standards. Your standards or John does standards might be completely different than someone else’s and what there ears like. Idk it’s just like you’re trying to focus on selling your product too much and not really being transparent with us and kinda one sided ig it seems to me. Maybe to people who aren’t as experienced in your field would watch you video and it would paint a much different picture to them then it should if you would stand on the fence than on one side or the other. Idk it’s hard to convey it into word but I tried my best. I don’t think you’re a bad guy you’re trying to run a business but you have to understand not everyone is a die hard experienced audiophile like you and that has your ears. To some people getting this crossover may degrade from the experience of the speaker as a whole in the form of them not liking the difference of sound rather or not you think it fixes it or not fixing the frequency response on paper, obviously that isn’t everything and how much of the picture it takes up is up for debate. everyone has different preferences and if you took more time to explain that maybe it would fix some things. Maybe it wouldn’t maybe to everyone that heard the rf7iiis with your new crossover they would like it who’s knows. Cheers. Do you do any of your products on a free trial, lol I would love to hear it.. I may be expecting a lil to much here feeling how I do but just my opinion like I said I do you but maybe my story did something..
@@daveycrockett5738 Let me take this one first. We don't make a lot of margin on crossover parts. We buy in bulk as much as we can so that we can make some margin. It is usually 20 to 30%. Considering all of the time I have invested in the design work, I have to sell a dozen of these or so to break even. I do it because it helps people. It gets them into the DIY hobby, and even as a loss leader it is good advertising. The customer feedback is really the best advertising I could buy. Our forum on the Audio Circle is full of it.
Secondly, let me dispel the notion that the improvement in performance is subjective or debatable. No one ever says they prefer the sound of having all of the detail smeared together rather then it being clear. No one ever decides they like the frequency response all jacked up and the tweeter level 4db louder then the woofers over a smooth and balanced sound. No one ever says they prefer when everything arrives out of phase and broken apart in the time domain over the sigal arriving in phase, coherent, and complete. No one ever says they like it when everything sounds flat and on the plane of the speakers or sound coming straight out of the speakers over a three dimensional and layered sound stage with separation and space around everything. Often (and to many of us) when we hear what speakers are capable of versus what we get from them when they are new then we do tend to think that they were broken from the factory. We realize they were built to a price point and not built to perform. For many people being able to fix them is a blessing.
3:43 - Maybe that is what their design intended. People sitting on the floor watching movies or on a bed sleeping watching tv/movies 🤷🏽♂️
Someone from Klipsch probably bought one of your upgrade kits and was impressed.
Holy Moley, they were selling this for $2200 with that kind of frequency response?? 🤨 And they had the audacity to call it their "Reference" series??
What were they thinking... yikes.
"Reference" as in competitors "refer" to them as being inferior-sounding.
I’ll bet those speakers will sound damn good with the improved crossovers.
That is quite an improvement.... Good job!
I would still never buy a pair of Klipsch anything, I don't like horn tweeters, period. But if a pair of these were given to me I'd strongly consider the upgrade now seeing what they could become. Cheers 🍻
I would never buy a pair of Klipsch anything either! It blows my mind that people actually buy those ear bleeders.
The RP line tweeter are way Softer and a lot better than the RF line
I can understand building to price point with cheap components , but a to design a speaker that is so flawed blows my mind.🤯
Thanks Danny, I just placed an order for this kit. I have been hoping someone would send you this speaker to upgrade. I can speak for the fact that the vertical off axis has a huge audible hole. Every time I stand up, it sounds like something is covering the speakers. Also, I couldn't figure out why the tweeter fell off so much when I ran my sweeps now I know. I will inform you if I find a $1000 worth of improvement.
I hope they work for you, let us know. I think your going to get a LOT of Better imaging and Dynamic range! I think its going to be night and Day Different
What is your feedback for this kit?
@@KirkLazurus Well they do as described. The speakers now sound well either sitting or standing in the room and the speakers now crossover and aim correctly.
@@schantzc thats it? Imagining ad a whole didnt improved?
@@brentshock3787 I didn’t notice any changes. The RF7 iii images great in my system.
Ever since Audiovox acquired Klipsch, Klipsch’s quality has taken a backseat to profits!! Sad
if they would have used cheap parts and your design it would not cost that much more in the first place!!!! its crap, they knew it and they dont care. nice work ntl
All Klipsch have done is put the same drivers in a bigger cabinet having not doing any measurements at all they are not alone in doing this!It is amazing what Richie manages to do expensive but worth it if anybody has a pair
"Worth it" as in what money you've saved in not buying a better speaker versus how much time it takes to build and install custom circuit boards from scratch. I spent over 60 hours upgrading my B&W CDM-1NT speakers, and it made a very significant improvement in sound quality, but I could have saved that time by buying higher end speakers or studio monitors.
This speaker would have been an EXCELLENT example of the difference a good network makes. I can imagine if you have a speaker like this again, setting it up in your room there and recording a song before and after the upgrade. Then A/B compare them by switching live in the video. You could even make it blind by not telling us which is which.
It would be easier if we had both speakers in house, plus we would have to build out one of the crossovers as when we're designing them we're using cheap caps and alligator clips. But even then we'd be stuck playing them in Mono. It's not an ideal means of comparison. The videos Danny did on the RP 600M a couple years ago had an AB with stock vs upgraded.
I've always believed that test measurments are highly overrated; some of the most engaging speakers I've ever heard had horrible specs. I'm a big fan of newer Klipsch bookshelf speakers--they sound bright, dynamic, energetic
Nope, they are scientific and fact-based performance metrics not based on feeling, but science and no bias.
@@bobking7347 Which means absolutely nothing. You cannot translate specs into what each listener will find pleasing to the ear---that's like telling someone "this speaker has great specs, so you have no choice but to like the way it sounds"
So basically if you own a pair of these and can't afford to fix the crossovers, go to the bookshelf and put some books under the speakers.
I just can't understand why people would buy these things.
This review has caused me to lose a great deal of respect for Klipsch speakers and their incredibly poor measured performance. When shopping for a new pair of speakers, I'll definitely be looking for another manufacturer!
elac, emotiva and so may others that design well and are affordable
They are cashing in on the reputation they earned decades ago. Sadly, their time has passed.
Lmao . This guy doesn't think any big brand is any good, anyway, so buy what you think sounds good for you.. and not the measurements that look good on this guy's system, ignore fool that tries to fool you.
Klipsch RP and RF speakers have never been sold as or marketed as high end speakers. It's only the internet hype and their general popularity that makes people think of them so highly. The Heritage line when properly implemented can be amazing but the RF and RP line are polarizing. People either love them or hate them. And the people who love them don't care one whit about Danny or his measurements.
@@davep2945 So Ignorance is bliss?
So basically with the stock cross over, these speakers should sound better if you turn them upside down.
In some ways. But being on the axis of the upper woofer is probably the closest to a "sweet spot" that exists.
I have taking to tilting mine back about 7 degrees, sounds better bit I'd have preferred to spend more and have them right.
I've been installing this kit. It's the second GR Kit that I've done. The amount of parts in the high circuit was crazy. I think it was 4 inductors, 4 resistors, and 3 capacitors. The inductor for the lower woofer is bigger than the whole factory crossover. And the no-rez really deadens the cabinet. I've almost got one back together, and I'm going to listen to the modded one and stock one together for awhile to AB them.
I think the hardest part is trying to find all the room in the cabinet for the parts needed to fix the speakers.
I'm not sure people understand that these inductors are wound OFC Copper, thus the reason for the cost people complain about, and the reason the manufacturers cut corners here. That's just how it is.
I also read a recent article that about 1/3 of dudes alive today don't own a drill, so I'm sure even fewer own a soldering iron. Probably hardly anyone owns both, thus, they won't be doing this type of install.
Those speakers are over 6 grand Canadian. Glad I never bought them because man those look rough
I have the RF-7 I's and they desperately need to be a 2.5 way. I am shocked the III's still have crappy radioshack plastic binding posts. 2K a piece tower speaker and plastic binding post nuts should not be in the same sentence.
Their biggest center channels are also still 2-way speakers. The RC 64-III we have up next is an absolute mess, especially off axis. It desperately needs to be a 2.5 way speaker as well..
@@hoth2112 The center channel that went with the RF-7 I was a 2.5 way, which adds much insult to injury.
@@raidendigital1003 now that's a real shame...
Lol. U paid that much for these?
@@Starch1b2c3d4a Yes. I was young and stupid. I did not have a room big enough to use them properly, and still don't.
I love the thumbnail/teaser photo of this video! I'm glad there's someone else beside me that cannot stand how any Klipsch speaker I have heard over many, many years sounds.
Question
With the upgraded crossover now the acoustic center has been raised. This definitely helps when sitting in a normal chair but what about in a reclined theater chair. In that position now the acoustic center would be seem to be off axis to your ears.
Question: When the original measurements were made I do not see the plinth riser. The plinth riser is to angle the original acoustic center more towards your ears.
Maybe the design is geared exclusively to home theater.
Thank You for all the time you spend helping enthusiasts.
So what is the point of buying Klipsch or other not so cheap speakers, if there is a need to upgrade those factory crossovers? I've been saving money to buy this exact Klipsch model but it looks like its nothing but a waste of money because there is " hole " in sound delivery. Might as well look for something else. I hate buying Chinese speakers but the Arendals more and more seemingly would offer more bang for the buck and a better buy. Better crossovers, better aesthetics, etc. The Klipsch is a fixer upper.
Its like buying a Corvette C8 but there is a " need " to change this and that so you get its maximum performance potential, otherwise a lot of people in the know will hang their heads low because a factory stock Corvette is not good enough due to shitty and cheap components.
Manufacturers really need to cleanup their act with part quality on their flagship products. A product costing $4000 retail a pair needs to have a better crossover design and better parts.
Yes. Less money and a crossover plan and i buy my parts by my own.
Even if they use cheep parts, they could at least get the crossover design value right. They have access to lab equipment.
Try 6600$, here for the rf7
@@chriss881000 where?
@@ekimandersom4478 norway
Klipsch are known for horn tweeters and BASS, are they still BASS Heavy
I've never done anything like this before. I would really need a full walk through video before I considered spending that kind of money and potentially damaging these speakers. Would you be willing to make one? Or do you have one already with any other speakers that would give me a better idea if this is something I could take on myself?
I'm glad you can put into words what I hear whenever I buy (and promptly return) Klipsch speakers, most recently the RP600m based on another youtubers positive review. Maybe I'll try these new 600m's...but I'm pretty pleased with my Polk R200's. I'd have to be really really convinced of something special to try a Klipsch again after all these years.
Just stop buying Klipsch... If you are bouncing between Klipsch and Polk you obviously need to spend more time finding out what you really like. You would be flat out finding two more diametrically opposed speakers. Ear bleeding shrill to fat and bloated midrange. Have a listen to more brands to see what is out there. Took me ages to find my sound. Ignore reviews, let your ears decide what you like, then narrow your search from there.
The 600M-IIs are an improvement, but are still bright up top. Imo, they only sound "good" when listening 20+30° off-axis. Makes for a decent soundstage, but imagining suffere in the process. On axis they get fatiguing after a short while.
@@hoth2112 there is no such thing as a good sounding Klipsch speaker, only a less worse one. Any time you get listening fatigue, that is you brain telling you it is in pain. Listening to it off axis is just masking a fundamental flaw in the speaker on the whole. There are so many good speakers on the market, there is no need to torture your ears listening to harsh Klipsch.
You’re hurting yourself buying these budget speakers full price. Get them used and get them dirt cheap. They’re built to a price and spending more than $150 feels like being ripped off.
That’s a pricey upgrade kit. Sell them and start over
Exactly
For a 6000 dollar pair of speakers, you'd expect better parts. I would spend 6000 on these only to have to do an upgrade to them. I wonder what the upgraded 8000f doubt like in comparison to these upgraded? Are they close enough to not need to consider the rf7iii?
I have the same question
I went for the jbl 3800 instead of these. I rly wanted to like the rf7, they have a great 10" slam, but the sound overall is not worth it at ALL. The jbl's and the rf7 cost the same here (6700$) the rf7 mids is the worst part of the speaker.. most ppl who praises the rf7 or is typical americans , they get them very cheap on amazon for example, and most of them have never had some real speakers before, then ofc the rf7 gonna sound amazing.
Why to fix stuff wich is crap ? Just buy something good. The sad thing is, people buy this cheap stuff anyway (klipsch marketing wins) and think its awesome and the best for the price
Even "good" speakers are still full of cheap parts that will rob the speaker of it's full potential. It's not until you start spending serious money ($20K and up) on retail speakers for the crossover parts quality to really start to change.
Even PS Audios new FR30 speaker uses budget poly caps. Definitely better than dirt cheap electrolytic caps, but there's still performance left on the table.
@@hoth2112 you can always tweak arround and find something better. But a higher priced and more engineered product has better parts in it, otherwise they will dont have a higher price (an mostly they dont spend the money into marketing). But for me i dont see any sense to tune a klipsch. The drivers are cheap, the wood, the horn…its all mass produced, save the money for the Tuning Kit, instead buy something wich already has good / better parts
watch Danny $5000 USD speaker. still garbage
$6399 is the price in Canada…
These are the the same drivers as in other lower priced models in a different cabinet’s.
A total rip-off
Even if they were a lot cheaper, I would not buy a pair. There are a lot of better speakers for less money, especially if you are willing to buy second hand.
Whoa! Thats steep
Drivers are not the same. It takes 5mins. of reasrch to realize that.
03:36 -- Danny's version of an Uncle Roger "Hai-yoo!" 🤣
Do you have upgrade kits for the klipsch RF-5 towers?
They are supposed to be called Klipps, but with their colouration and smearing they thought Klipsch would be more fitting.
Would you consider reviewing something in the Polk Audio Reserve series? Perhaps the R500, or R600, or R700, which all the youtube reviewers seem to be raving about. It would be interesting to see how their measured performance compares with their perceived pleasant sound. Thanks for your consideration.
I am really not a reviewer. I just work on whatever customers send us for upgrades.
@@dannyrichie9743 someone would need to send him the speakers. Those R700 look like beasts! Im considering getting them and if I do I would definitely get Danny’s help with the crossover’s. I have the R200 in my garage and I like them👍🏻🔈
@@JR-ho5qm Why would you bother buying them expecting them to need a crossover change? Just buy what you enjoy. And the idea that they could be better with a crossover change doesn't fly as you have no idea what they sound like currently and for the money spent plus the new crossover you could have just purchased something you liked in the first place. Also, what if it's one of the speakers he doesn't think needs much done? Then you just wasted your money all around. Hell, just order one of his kits if you think he knows what's going to sound best for you.
@@davep2945 almost any speaker you buy under 10000$ can benefit from having higher quality crossover parts. Even if it’s just higher quality parts of equal value without a network change. It’s no different than souping up a car, kinda fun to have something a bit better than it was intended to be.
@@JR-ho5qm Hey, if you've got the scratch and that's your thing, go for it. But I am curious as to why more viewers don't just order his kits if they believe in his methods. I've found well designed kits to be a far better value both dollar wise and performance wise.
If ain't broke, don't fix it
It was broke.
@@dannyrichie9743 nah its fine...I don't listen to measurements..if that's how you listen to a speaker then good for you...I like what I like...I don't buy a speaker so I can buy this dudes upgrade material....why do you think 99% of the speakers reviewed are bad? Oh because he will make something to sell you that sounds better to him? F THAT! I listen to what sounds good to me...you guys are sheep...followers..
.oh he says it's bad so it's bad....look at the graph...I must buy what he's selling me...oh he makes expensive cables too?...well shit that will make my speaker sound better...lmao.
@@maddog3454 Yeah, you would think folks would enjoy what they enjoy but so many are just what you said, sheep. They enjoyed the speakers until they saw a graph online and then suddenly they didn't enjoy the speakers. Umm, what? So I suppose if these same folks listened to a speaker they didn't like but then ol' Dan showed them a graph of it's response that he liked well, hot damn, now they love it? Yep, best speaker they ever heard, in fact. Some folks you just can't help though. The only thing that ever really bothered me about this channel was Dan claiming he was "fixing" a speaker. I've sent him a few messages about this but he doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word fix. See, in order to fix something it has to be broken. If the binding post were broken off and he replaced it then he would be fixing something. But to modify a frequency response, level mach or improve phase relationship are just that modifications. Why? Because there is no absolute standard to which these things must conform or else be considered out of spec or broken. If a speaker did not measure within a certain tolerance to it's factory engineered response then one might correctly state they fixed it by bringing it into factory spec. However, to make your own decision on what that spec should be and then claim you fixed it by realigning it to your own chosen specification is ego and marketing speaking.
@@maddog3454He is making upgrades to speakers. Unfortunately a lot of speakers are designed poorly. Many owners of these speakers don’t care about these upgrades and use them happily as they are designed from the factory, fine for them. Danny is not forcing you to buy these kits, it is totally up to yourself. But he knows what he is doing and his knowledge and tests confirms this. If you don’t believe in him, then don’t. Nobody is forcing you. Danny has his business, and the fact that some believe that these upgrades are plainly for him to cash in on poorly built speakers from factory don’t see the point and does not take into account his knowledge through 28 years of loudspeaker design. He clearly knows what he is doing.
funny thing is i like the klipsch sound
Another successful x-over makeover and some lucky guy’s ears saved from mediocre sound quality. I bet that dip at 1000-1500Hz must have been pretty audible, plus a roughly 10dB variance in output across the entire frequency range.
These speakers are way too expensive to need an upgrade like this.
I listened to these in a store once, it was my first time hearing modern Klipsch, and boy howdy was I not impressed with these. Your measurements and explanation perfectly matches what I heard, as I was standing....
Me to
Same here. They kind of hurt my ears. After listening to them in several shops, I avoided the brand completely.
Klipsch owes you a consulting fee, Danny! 😃
I want to see you make kits for Arendal speakers or Atlantic technology or other direct to consumer/specialist brands. I can’t stand getting bad quality for a lot of money
Hey Danny, can you measure at the distance that Klipsch recommends for this speaker? Curious to see if the Tweeter and Woofer sums better.
Any chance you might offer an upgrade for the Klipsch Cornwall IV?
Someone has to send or bring one to him.
Dany it seem to me that speakers are made like this for a sound reason not on to measure well cause every audio maker has there own sound that they sell.becuase most don't have a clue on how music should sound . And they bank on that know matter how much they spend it's their sound!!!. Not yours
What a salesman you are. I do most of my listening in my workshop / studio or during parties / gatherings - like probably 90%+ of folks buying these speakers. If I have to add $1900 in “non-cheesie” additions so I can listen in my easy chair, I would be wasting money. I asked you once to explain those graphs that are supposed to bolster your opinions. However you never did. As such, they seem like props! Maybe one of these days I will understand.
The $950 upgrade is for both speakers.
I have also shot some videos where I explain some of the measurements. You can see them in our video list.
@@dannyrichie9743 I have only been subscribed for about 4-5 months. I will search for those you mention.
Ich frage mich was die Entwickler so den ganzen Tag machen? Merken die nicht diese Diskrepanzen? Für teures Geld so ein Crossover. Ein Witz. Verfolge jedes Video aus Europa. Hier gibt es nichts vergleichbares. 👍🇩🇪👍👍
Gesundheit ?
@@veroman007 was Gesundheit?
I hate Klispch speakers. They're ugly, and I don't like the way they sound. Just my opinion...
Klipsch and Bose are the LAST speakers I would ever buy, and you're right Klipsch speakers are ugly shouty in your face ear bleeders. Only people that don't have a clue what good speakers should sound like buy them.
Almost a trillion human beings beg to differ. Which is great, gives the development team more means to develope more of this great speaker brand.
@Not My Fault, You Asked For It While you are sitting there with your head wrapped in tin foil the Hope plant planning to expand to three shift for the workers
Danny,
It wasn't super clear...... to me..... if the price was for a pair or a single speaker. You made mention that it was for a single speaker, but maybe that was just for the parts per speaker?
It's always for a pair, except for center channel speakers.
I'm sure Klipsch isn't the only manufacturer building to a price point, but they should be embarrassed by what they put out. On the other hand, if they developed it with your crossover, they'd probably lose much of their consumers. They need to find a happy medium.
Anyway, nice job on the redesign!
So quality creates loss of customers, that says a lot about us people
I understand the building for a price point but these are $4400 a pair. Its not the budget stuff anymore.
Perception is reality. If a consumer feels they sound good, whether they compare or not, then the consumer is happy enough to buy the product. You don’t know what you got til you compare a product to another that is better or worse.
It’s a matter of: education, taste, and budget.
@@freone111 Pretty sure it wouldn't cost them much for better components . They'd order mass quantities at a discount for one . The difference may be around $100 to be honest .
@@manchesterexplorer8519 I agree. They just dont do it
I cannot see how Klipsch ever gained any sales status
how far away do you take these measurements?
I have to wonder if crossovers like these are simply calculated with some type of software without any listening or testing to doublecheck the actual response. Seeing measured response charts makes me wonder how could a $4k speaker be released into the marketplace with glaring issues that are somewhat obvious. 🤷🏻♂️
If Danny is selling his xover at 900, it probably would cost Klipsh 500 in cost of goods sold. That would double their sale price. Best to buy the speakers used and add Danny's xover and have great speakers at less than retail.
Wouldn't it make sense to use an iron-core inductor for the lower woofer? I've seen an article showing that distortion of the iron-core inductors on frequences less than 500 Hz is still pretty low (as I recall, less than 0.1%).
Makes sense, you are likely to obtain much lower DCR at a reasonable cost with a cored inductor and that's what really matters down low.
We did try that option as well, but it didn't sound right with the iron core inductor compared to the air core when designing the new network. The RF7-II & 8000F upgrade kits both used iron cores for the lower woofer.
@@hoth2112Sorry, you mean it didn't sound right to include an iron core inductor for marketing reasons, or it didn't sound right, because somehow its core hysteresis/signal distortion is audible, while that of output transformers of valve amplifiers you favour is not ? Increased losses and lower damping make for a more pronounced bass, if less accurate. In any case, driver distortion will trump that of iron core coil by quite a margin at LF. To put things into perspective, what's the DCR of that air core, more than R7 ?
@@paulb4661 Tonally speaking, it didn't sound right. I dont have a better description
The iron core we were using was also a much higher value than the air core.
If we wanted to swap to an iron core of the same value, we would need to have had them custom made for us as it's not a value we normally carry in iron cores.
Elac makes much better speakers for the price!
Have you ever worked on any of the Klipsch Heritage models?
Only the Forte III so far.
How can a company as big as Klipsch produce such a shitty crossover? I would think they'd have people in their team that would know how to design a crossover.
They know exactly how to design a crossover. The budget determines what they decide on. Danny has no such constraints.
@@EskWIRED They could have still used the cheesy parts and still designed a crossover that would have addressed the phase issues and frequency response peaks. So it isn't just about the budget. They could have done a better job.
@@dannyrichie9743 I was thinking the same thing
Trust me, they know how to design a crossover. A lot of folks who come to this channel think what Danny does is extremely difficult but with the right test equipment it's really not. The reason Klipsch doesn't bother with a more sophisticated design or worry one whit about what some dude on the internet thinks about their speakers is because they don't have to. People know the Klipsch name so they will go and have a listen. A good many of these folks like what they hear and buy the speakers never once wondering what some key board warrior thinks about their purchase. They don't care about measurements, crossover parts, resonance, ringing or anything else an audio snoot might denigrate to feel superior about their own ideas or purchases.
Remember, while this channel features a lot of Klipsch products they still only represent a fraction of a fraction of all the Klipsch products sold every year much less over the life of the company. Most buyers are either completely satisfied with their purchase or smart and industrious enough to send it back if they aren't. Return periods of even just 30 days are more than long enough to get enough break in to know the character of a speaker so if one keeps it even though they still don't like it that's on them. And the folks whining about things like vinyl finishes or plastic binding posts on expensive speakers but buying them anyway just need to shut up. No one forced them to buy those products and the offending items were there from the beginning so, again, that's on them. What you tolerate you validate. Klipsch already made their money even on the haters dime.
The initial measurement put up is not what one would hear seated, listening to these Klipsch speakers.
The tweeter height is way above ear level when sitting in your listening chair on these speakers which is where the measured response got a lot smoother.
Danny would know this & you can tell that his computer chair still doesn’t get him to tweeter height which is a lot higher than normal listening chairs.
Although the speakers still need a lot of work :) just would like a fair review.
Not a big Klipsch fan but do have these as surrounds.
Nice result in the end Danny.
The speaker is setting on a lift table behind me. It is about 10" off of the floor.
Even if you do get your ear to near the mid woofer level, the overall room response is still all over the place.
@@dannyrichie9743 you are right, results were still not great. Albeit better than your first measurement.
These speakers for unknown reasons were never meant to be listened to with tweeter at ear level.
If I was using these as stereo speakers & really enjoyed them, I would ant this upgrade myself :)
Happy listening.
very impressed with your results and how you included a 2nd distance in your study.. it definately proves their serious mistakes.
I'm glad you're back at making videos working with speakers
We've got several more to do ASAP, weve been swamped the last 3 months and are finally getting caught up and can start upgrades again. We got lots to come soon.
They just need to refund us
Great thumbnail!
Will adding No-Res change the internal volume of the box?
No. The airspace taken up by the damping layer is offset by the 1" layer of foam that covers it. Plus you can also reinstall the original foam sheets over the norez, or use fiberglass/rockwool insulation or polyfill to further control standing waves and internal reflections.
As Danny described it, yes technically it uses up some airspace, but the material used in the NoRez slows down and dampens the back waves inside the box so much that if anything it ‘acts’ like a larger enclosure in the end.
@@rehn1kri Technically speaking, it lowers the Q and somewhat f of panel resonances present, by increasing mass and dissipation due to friction. To do anything for Cab, fb and air column resonances, you go for fibreglass or similar fill and dissipate energy, especially at antinodes, where the velocity is at its maximum and sound pressure the opposite.
A little bit, not enough to mean anything. But you will get a punching bass and drums w less bouncing of the woofer , A huge different.
You should be thanking Klipsch they seem to be keeping you in business. Because every time you turn around somebody’s sending you another pair of Klipsch speakers to get them to sound right.
Oh, the upgrades are just a drop in the bucket of our normal business, but we do in fact get sent a lot of them.
I have two pair of the 8060 fa first generation and those things pound concrete they sound absolutely phenomenal when it comes to listening to what I like to listen to which is 70s progressive rock from Alan Parsons all the way forward to yes.. I would truly enjoy Junior researches impression of the 8060 Fa for comparison please do so thank you
The front baffle fell forward on 1 of my bnib Klipsch RF 7 IIIs ! Came Right Off ! Woofers N All ! Still Attatched ! They Did Not Apply Enough Glue ! Funny Mass Produced in Hope ! TO MUCH !
Have you ever got your hands on the old Klipch legend series from the late 90s particularly the KLF20s?
We haven't.
@@hoth2112 basically forte drivers in a tower, very awesome, considering Bob Crites titanium tweeter diaphragm and cap update, any thoughts would be welcome
People should really move over those mediocre Klipsch speakers... try Arendal, Monitor Audio, ProAc or KLH speakers, there's a Day and Night difference.
I don't care for the reference line much, but the Klipsch heritage line is great, the heresy and forte are very good. I'd like to see you do some vintage speaker upgrades and see what you think, original klh model 5? Hpm 100? Just a thought.
I designed an upgrade for the Forte 3. We even did before and after listening comparisons. That speaker needed a lot of help.
@@dannyrichie9743 interesting
@@JukeboxAlley Amazing how thousands of satisfied buyers don't think it needs any help at all. But because one dude sends a pair in and they don't meet Dan's preferred specs suddenly all those folks are wrong. Nope, they just like what they like. No one is the all powerful arbiter of how a speaker should sound or measure. If you enjoy them then F what anyone else thinks. We're not talking about people receiving a counterfeit version of a life saving medicine that doesn't follow the definitive formula needed to make it work. We're talking about personal enjoyment and taste which is entirely subjective.
Thank you for all your upgrades. But you sold me on your kits are better. I love my white piano finish XLSs. Patiently been waiting for the X-CS and X-MTM videos? I know you have no control over supplies and material that are not available. Substituting ideal parts (original T26SG, mills, Erse) sucks. I hope I am still alive or have not lost my hearing by the time all the X--CS videos come out.
It is good to know that there are those who can and share the information, it turns out that companies do not always do a good job for the product and it is good to have professionals like you to give us the opportunity to see that it is worthwhile and can be corrected and improved
With these overseas mfd offerings below the Heritage line, I'm guessing Klipsch simply pursues perceived value, perceived capability. I'm out of my field of expertise... but that's my take having explored all things audio since the 70's.
I own ten Klipsch speakers, across four different models (RB/RF)... none of which have I used for years.
Nevertheless, like all the gear I've owned, each contribute in being elements in my audio journey... (experiments, long term listening, measurements, disassembly, mods, etc.).
I can't imagine how many hundreds of thousands Klipsch products have been sold over the past 25yrs or so. Not sure about elsewhere, but in the US they're fucking everywhere!
Mammoth marketing (RF/RB) plus
Heritage line
=
Perceived value
Perceived performance
It makes you wonder, does Klipsch have ANY design integrity at all.
I ve had my RF7 iii for a few years and like how they sound in Movies and don't think they are harsh. In music though it's a totally different story. I can't listen to more than 2-3 songs at once, I get fatigue and have to turn it down or off. Would this be related to the stock crossover design? Can I expect improvement in that area with this upgrade? Or is this just how Klipsch speakers are naturally? Thanks
Pretty awesome. I never liked the RF7iii. This would probably make them nice.
I knew mine were off. To compensate I rotated the plinths around 180 degrees and cranked the spikes in the rear as high as they will go and removed the front ones so they are pointing straight at me plus they are toed in about 20 degrees each. Looks funny but works for me. My 300Bs make em sing. Had RF5s prior and Response 2s prior to those.
I thought that the Klipsch RF-7 III were supposed to be an excellent speaker. It is sad how poorly designed and implemented the crossover is in these.
I'm talking about the audio not the consumer.as a. Person we don't get trained on how audio file sound would be like.and audio makers know this.its money tests on people that's what they use to sell audio there name sells and that what people base there prefrance on the name mostly not true sound.
This is exactly the kind of upgrade I want to do to my KLF-30s. I've had them for 25ish years and have wanted to upgrade them for a long time. One 12" bass, One 12" mid-base, and tying in and balancing out the horns with the crossover and internal wire upgrade in a DIY kit. I'm not opposed to swapping mid-horn out for another speaker and replacing the tweeter for a titanium upgrade. If you had the kit I'd buy it, I know they're old, but still capable speakers.
I'm using way more power than needed for these speakers. Mark Levinson No 26 amp, with a tweeked Nakamichi Ca-7 preamp.
More proof that Klipsch is more concerned with marketing and profit than sound quality. I wish people would aim a little higher in the first place.
If a brand new speaker needs to be worked on to sound good then its simple don't buy it .it doesn't make sense.you buy a speaker then you send it to get
"Worked on " .you just buy a better speaker fron the start n
So is it essential that people use a measuring meter when they listen to music on the Klipsch loudspeakers or they won't pick up the dips in frequencies?
Does this tech ever play a before and after audio sample so we can hear what the difference is?
There are some UA-cam channels dedicated to A-B comparisons, which in theory should tell you something, but even with my high end monitors, I can't really tell enough difference to make a buying decision. I did upgrade my B&W speakers with Danny's kit, but I doubt a mic'd comparison could reveal the richness of the sound in the upgraded speakers.
Most cases, we only get one speaker and all of the crossover designs are done externally using clips, which aren't ideal for sound quality.
Danny has done A-B clips with the smaller RP600M, as that was a pair we built out and compared the stock to upgraded.
He has said multiple times that he doesn't listen to the speakers at all. Just runs tests and adjusts to his preferred graph. Sometimes I would say the measurements are better and sometimes they aren't worth the effort but no matter the sound will only be changed. To you it may be better or it may not be. Plenty of people love the speakers Danny denigrates. And plenty of people think he's some sort of guru with this singular knowledge no one else possesses. Well, except for Andrew Jones because that's the only other speaker designer these folks know of. So they'll ignore the fact the Elac's budget to upper tier speakers use budget crossovers because, well, Andrew.
That's what turned me off on the RP line so wanted them but had no warmth to the vocals. if they made it a 3 way would really help.
Very nice work on this one. 2.5 way for the win!
So this new crossover will transform these 2 way speakers into a 2.5 or 3 way speakers ?
Is there a how to video to these? I’ve had these for about a year and would like to take a stab and trying to do this myself
I have a set of Paradigms Monitors 9’s…can do an upgrade?
Thanks for the video. I was looking to get some Klipsch floorstanding speakers. Really don't feel like pay that much for speakers I have "fix".
Wow, you talking about time alignment just turned the light bulb on, I always find myself lowering my ears to where it sounds better, it's something I have suspected, you confirmed it. My Monitor Audio speakers included.
Is that dip related to the mid band compensation on auddessey? If so, then is that not a bad idea to keep turned on?