Hi Tom Great seeing such a in-depth review. your technique with one preheat is very good, we recommend making two but you are on the right track with longer soaks. For the heat jacket: it's a good Idea but not as easy to manufacture with warranty, certification and safety. We always take longevity and safety as our priority and we didn't find a good solution for a heater. With the use case you are correct, in the best case you use it in a hotel or b&b, but it is also usable outdoors. the limiting factor is only that you need a stable surface to put it on and some source of hot water.
I’ve been using the Mina for a few weeks now. There is no way a single preheat soak will get the temperatures above 70°C. I pour boiling water, pump, and drain for about a minute - twice. This will get the water in the group head into the mid 80s. I can tell the group head has been thoroughly preheated when it’s almost too hot to touch At this point, there will not be a large difference in temperature between above the puck and in the cup. It cup temp will certainly be far above the mid 50’s. I’m surprised that anyone would think temperatures in the mid 50s, in the cup, would be acceptable?
@willconnor7621 With respect, there is way and I've proved it 🙂. But thanks for sharing your experience. 50c in the cup is fine for me. 50c coming out of the group head is not. I'm happy for subscribers to read that you have a different experience. The more diverse the posts the better for a well rounded thread. And by all means, do your own video with temperature readings and post it on YT. If there is one thing that I've learnt in testing and comparing dozens of grinders, it's that if a result is different then there is a different variable. For example your room temperature and therefore your Minas starting temperature. That may not be it but if you get a different result to me then you have a different variable. It doesn't invalidate your experience (or mine) and it explains why there is a discrepancy.
I received one of the initial few Minas delivered to the States from Cerini's, NYC. I enjoy the little machine tremendously and I use it every morning for two to five shots. I bought the Mina to replace a Flair Neo specifically because it is NOT powered. And I chose it from among the several manual levers based on Olympia Express's reputation. Your one-soak method may indeed work fine-I shall try tomorrow. I simply keep the chamber filled with 100C for as much time as possible. My kettle is right next to the Mina so it's easy to keep it topped up. I'm of an age that I also preheat my demitasse. The rest of your procedure is quite similar to mine. By the way, an extension for the lever is an easy thing to have made; one just needs to find the craftsman or have access to the appropriate tools. I spent several weeks trying to build an auxiliary stand, something a bit sturdier and decorative. But I gave that up after realizing OE's engineers had, actually, already provided what seems to be the best support structure. Thank you for the great video clip: infomrative, well written, and competently shot and edited.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I agree with the lever extension, hopefully that's something that Olympia will pick up and run with. I'd love to know how you go with the one soak method.
Thanks for you post, hey sorry but I only ended up keeping the Mina for the review purposes so won't be able to add a photo of the puck😮. I was going to keep it but in the end decided that I'm simply not travelling enough to justify it.
interesting how your decent shots came out at around ~50 haven't measured mine recently but last time I did I think it's 65+ but I also do closer to 1:3 and a bit longer hotter PI so that could be the main difference the Mina looks gorgeous but have owned Flair 58 before which I already had a hard time getting the temp consistent, I don't know if I could get used to this preheating/presoaking routine ever again 😅 geeat review 👍👏
@JoeW789 Thanks for that, intereting regarding the temperatute on the Decent. I was a bit surprised myself but having run a scace on both of them (2x DE1XLs) they are certainly delivering water at the set temperature out of the group head. Its surprising how much temperature gets sucked out of the water from the top of the puck to the bottom. Re the presoaking faff: I think it would be fine on holiday for a week or two but it would start to get annoying as a daily driver. I'm surprised to hear about the temperature stability on the Flair 58. I might get one for review. I had an early one but got too frustrated blowing up the group head by putting the cables in the wrong order
Thank you for making this video. The machine is out of my budget for how much I travel but it is fun to watch options that are available the market. it would be interesting to see this compared to cheaper options but like you mentioned in the watch comparison enjoyment can be from other places such as holding and using it.
Great work, Tom, like it a lot. Would be good to know your view on how this stacks against the Cafelat Robot for about 1/3 of the price. I find mine doesn't actually need any preheating unless on lighter roasts. Cheers!
Espresso-wise it's probably a tie between them. Same for the others I mentioned too. The Robot is a classic and any upgrade won't be for better Espresso. Interested to hear that you don't need pre hearing. Thanks for posting.
At about 3:12 you recommend to use a bigger basket such to have a bigger volume in the cup: that's not correct, a bigger basket doesn't give you a bigger output volume.
Thanks for your post Claudio. Love your work. And I agree that a bigger basket on it's own doesn't automatically produce a greater volume of espresso. But my rationale (and experience) is this: with more grounds I can produce more espresso in terms of volume that is as well balanced as a smaller basket that also produces a balanced espresso. Hope that makes sense and thanks again for your post, it's an honor to have you view one of my videos. As always, I remain open to feedback and correction. Especially from someone with your depth of experience.
Love your in-depth reviews! Thanks for all you do I am a straight espresso (no milk) added kind of person and I don’t mind the extra effort I have been considering getting the Mina or a La Pavoni lever would you say the Mina shots are comparable to a La Pavoni?
Great question. Based on forum posts and reviews, I sometimes feel like I am the only person on planet earth who doesn't love the La Pavoni lever! The reason I'm not a fan is because the temperature is not stable for very long and if you want stability you end up with stange looking things like the heat sink. I've alluded to the idea that I'm an outlier regarding the La Pavoni and if you are OK with temperature surfing and having a define window of time to pull a shot at optimal temperate then you'll be fine with one. Personally, even though I love the look and feel of the La Pavoni, from a temperature stability point of view, I prefer a Flair 58 or if the budget stretches a Strietman CT2, the latter on which the wonderful Lever Magazine did a temperature stability test on and it passed with flying colors. Long answer sorry but in short, I prefer the little bit of extra faff that comes with the Mina over how the La Pavoni works. That said, the lever action on the La Pavoni required less muscle and I can't say I'd recommend the Mina for daily in-home use. For my money it's a travel lever to be used for a week on holiday.
The only thing I will mention is the laser temperature gun is most likely showing you a lower temperature here, as it registers the surface temperature. Using a temperature probe you will probably find the temperature is actually higher.
Thanks for that. You make a good point. I did run with a temperature probe initially but it was a bit easier to show the numbers in the video with the gun. I used the gun for the outside surface temperature and a probe for the water inside. There was a difference for sure but it seemed close enough and for the sake of simplicity I only used the gun in the video. Thanks for posting, every opinion helps.
Hi Tom
Great seeing such a in-depth review.
your technique with one preheat is very good, we recommend making two but you are on the right track with longer soaks.
For the heat jacket: it's a good Idea but not as easy to manufacture with warranty, certification and safety.
We always take longevity and safety as our priority and we didn't find a good solution for a heater.
With the use case you are correct, in the best case you use it in a hotel or b&b, but it is also usable outdoors.
the limiting factor is only that you need a stable surface to put it on and some source of hot water.
@olympiaexpress_sa Ah it's Olympia himself! Love this little beauty and thanks for taking the time to comment. I'll pin your comments to the top.
Hi, Wow, you do an amazing job at what you do
I’ve been using the Mina for a few weeks now.
There is no way a single preheat soak will get the temperatures above 70°C.
I pour boiling water, pump, and drain for about a minute - twice. This will get the water in the group head into the mid 80s.
I can tell the group head has been thoroughly preheated when it’s almost too hot to touch
At this point, there will not be a large difference in temperature between above the puck and in the cup. It cup temp will certainly be far above the mid 50’s.
I’m surprised that anyone would think temperatures in the mid 50s, in the cup, would be acceptable?
@willconnor7621 With respect, there is way and I've proved it 🙂. But thanks for sharing your experience. 50c in the cup is fine for me. 50c coming out of the group head is not. I'm happy for subscribers to read that you have a different experience. The more diverse the posts the better for a well rounded thread. And by all means, do your own video with temperature readings and post it on YT.
If there is one thing that I've learnt in testing and comparing dozens of grinders, it's that if a result is different then there is a different variable. For example your room temperature and therefore your Minas starting temperature. That may not be it but if you get a different result to me then you have a different variable. It doesn't invalidate your experience (or mine) and it explains why there is a discrepancy.
I stand corrected! I was surprised to see that my temperature dropped 20°C from above the puck to the cup.
85c to 55c
I received one of the initial few Minas delivered to the States from Cerini's, NYC. I enjoy the little machine tremendously and I use it every morning for two to five shots. I bought the Mina to replace a Flair Neo specifically because it is NOT powered. And I chose it from among the several manual levers based on Olympia Express's reputation. Your one-soak method may indeed work fine-I shall try tomorrow. I simply keep the chamber filled with 100C for as much time as possible. My kettle is right next to the Mina so it's easy to keep it topped up. I'm of an age that I also preheat my demitasse. The rest of your procedure is quite similar to mine. By the way, an extension for the lever is an easy thing to have made; one just needs to find the craftsman or have access to the appropriate tools. I spent several weeks trying to build an auxiliary stand, something a bit sturdier and decorative. But I gave that up after realizing OE's engineers had, actually, already provided what seems to be the best support structure. Thank you for the great video clip: infomrative, well written, and competently shot and edited.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I agree with the lever extension, hopefully that's something that Olympia will pick up and run with. I'd love to know how you go with the one soak method.
great review.... I would like to see the puck post extraction if you can add later... thanks
Thanks for you post, hey sorry but I only ended up keeping the Mina for the review purposes so won't be able to add a photo of the puck😮. I was going to keep it but in the end decided that I'm simply not travelling enough to justify it.
My decent espresso shot has a temperature of 76°C in the cup. Just saying
Thanks for your post. Lots of variables in there too. The preset you are using for starters.
interesting how your decent shots came out at around ~50
haven't measured mine recently but last time I did I think it's 65+ but I also do closer to 1:3 and a bit longer hotter PI so that could be the main difference
the Mina looks gorgeous but have owned Flair 58 before which I already had a hard time getting the temp consistent, I don't know if I could get used to this preheating/presoaking routine ever again 😅
geeat review 👍👏
@JoeW789 Thanks for that, intereting regarding the temperatute on the Decent. I was a bit surprised myself but having run a scace on both of them (2x DE1XLs) they are certainly delivering water at the set temperature out of the group head. Its surprising how much temperature gets sucked out of the water from the top of the puck to the bottom.
Re the presoaking faff: I think it would be fine on holiday for a week or two but it would start to get annoying as a daily driver.
I'm surprised to hear about the temperature stability on the Flair 58. I might get one for review. I had an early one but got too frustrated blowing up the group head by putting the cables in the wrong order
Thank you for making this video. The machine is out of my budget for how much I travel but it is fun to watch options that are available the market. it would be interesting to see this compared to cheaper options but like you mentioned in the watch comparison enjoyment can be from other places such as holding and using it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Tom, were you a CEO or high level corporate manager in a past life? The PowerPoint style presentation is something we don't see much of anymore!
Oh that is funny. Remember "Death by PowerPoint"?
Great work, Tom, like it a lot. Would be good to know your view on how this stacks against the Cafelat Robot for about 1/3 of the price. I find mine doesn't actually need any preheating unless on lighter roasts. Cheers!
Espresso-wise it's probably a tie between them. Same for the others I mentioned too. The Robot is a classic and any upgrade won't be for better Espresso. Interested to hear that you don't need pre hearing. Thanks for posting.
At about 3:12 you recommend to use a bigger basket such to have a bigger volume in the cup: that's not correct, a bigger basket doesn't give you a bigger output volume.
Thanks for your post Claudio. Love your work.
And I agree that a bigger basket on it's own doesn't automatically produce a greater volume of espresso.
But my rationale (and experience) is this: with more grounds I can produce more espresso in terms of volume that is as well balanced as a smaller basket that also produces a balanced espresso. Hope that makes sense and thanks again for your post, it's an honor to have you view one of my videos.
As always, I remain open to feedback and correction. Especially from someone with your depth of experience.
Hey Tom, love your work (also a gindlab supporter and SH gear buyer!)
Awesome, thank you!
Love your in-depth reviews! Thanks for all you do I am a straight espresso (no milk) added kind of person and I don’t mind the extra effort I have been considering getting the Mina or a La Pavoni lever would you say the Mina shots are comparable to a La Pavoni?
Great question. Based on forum posts and reviews, I sometimes feel like I am the only person on planet earth who doesn't love the La Pavoni lever! The reason I'm not a fan is because the temperature is not stable for very long and if you want stability you end up with stange looking things like the heat sink.
I've alluded to the idea that I'm an outlier regarding the La Pavoni and if you are OK with temperature surfing and having a define window of time to pull a shot at optimal temperate then you'll be fine with one. Personally, even though I love the look and feel of the La Pavoni, from a temperature stability point of view, I prefer a Flair 58 or if the budget stretches a Strietman CT2, the latter on which the wonderful Lever Magazine did a temperature stability test on and it passed with flying colors.
Long answer sorry but in short, I prefer the little bit of extra faff that comes with the Mina over how the La Pavoni works. That said, the lever action on the La Pavoni required less muscle and I can't say I'd recommend the Mina for daily in-home use. For my money it's a travel lever to be used for a week on holiday.
Thanks so much l appreciate all that insight. Very helpful
The only thing I will mention is the laser temperature gun is most likely showing you a lower temperature here, as it registers the surface temperature. Using a temperature probe you will probably find the temperature is actually higher.
Thanks for that. You make a good point. I did run with a temperature probe initially but it was a bit easier to show the numbers in the video with the gun. I used the gun for the outside surface temperature and a probe for the water inside. There was a difference for sure but it seemed close enough and for the sake of simplicity I only used the gun in the video. Thanks for posting, every opinion helps.
I think it’s a great release!
when are comparisons coming out?
Yes fair question. A bit slow at my end. Which grinders do you want to see compared. I have most 64mm flat and 83mm flat.