we may all have different answers for theological questions. one thing that is agreed upon is this- every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus is lord. period.
Herein lies the problem with the legal orientation of western christianity. Modern day evangelicals see "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" as a threat instead of a promise.
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”-James 1:17
Hey...B.J. I,d be glad to help ya w/ all that....but it sounds like ya toooooo far gone...but that's not against the law....if you actually read & studied ( 2Tim 2:15) the material I put out there...& ya still don't get the dif ' btw. Free Will...& Robots...i,ll just thank ya for making my....point....try following The Apostle Paul...who commanded us to...." be followers of me as I also follow....Christ..." 1Cor 11:1 NOT Calvin...or any other....man...1Cor 2:1-16(V5) & here,s why....Gal 1:1-12(V6,9,)
@@samjohnson9904 Reformed theology is proven by scripture,it is not a man made philosophy.I used to be mostly Arminian in my theology until I had both of my shoulders replaced and God gave me plenty of of time to pray and study and that's when He showed me the error of my belief.You really need to study it,Sam.
@@CBALLEN, in context, Paul is writing to Christians from the house of Chloe (the most carnal church in the NT) in regards to the advanced aspects of their spirituality. It's re-stated in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 and mirrored in Hebrews 5:10-14. The passage is about natural and spiritual as opposed to lost and saved as the Calvinist theology teaches. Simply, Paul is telling these Christians that they are not ready for the advanced teachings because they are not spiritually mature enough to grasp them.
The way he talks about it makes it seem like he thinks he's better than those in Hell even though he deserves it. And you can't get around the fact that if God chose some to go to Heaven then he chose others for Hell
As John Stott and Charles Spurgeon recognized: the Bible teaches both free will and predestination. It's a Biblical paradox and they said they will teach both. I humbly agree.
And John Stott also realised that the Bible teaches death/ destruction and perishing, not burning forever in a place we call hell, that the Bible never once refers to in Hebrew or Greek. check out this video ua-cam.com/video/FoNbPN_bSRs/v-deo.html
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Amen to that. Just as stated in John 3:16, we either perish or else we receive the gift of eternal life: ⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) We either come to repentance, or else we perish: ⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) ⚫ "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Jesus, in Luke 13:5) Examples of the wicked being destroyed, not "be"ing any more: ⚫ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). ⚫ "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7). ⚫ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). ⚫ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ⚫ "Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7). ⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . . ⚫ "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3) ua-cam.com/video/6yC3c8KqxPU/v-deo.html
@@TheBibleSays Hell is eternal.. unbelievers don't just cease away from existence. The Bible is every clear on that. ""Then He will say to those on His left, 'Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);" - Mat 25:41 "And if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire." - Rev 20:15 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence)." - Dan 12:2 "If your hand causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It is better for you to enter life crippled, than to have two hands and go into hell, into the unquenchable fire," - Mark 9:43 "save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom." - Jud 1:23 "And the beast (Antichrist) was seized and overpowered, and with him the false prophet who, in his presence, had performed [amazing] signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were hurled alive into the lake of fire which blazes with brimstone." - Rev 19:20
@@joedyms What happens to the unsaved? The apostle Paul wrote: ⚫ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life though Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) There is nothing in that verse about eternal life in some sort of fiery "hell." Unless you receive the gift of eternal life you will perish in what is called the "second death," after resurrection for judgment. After that second death, there is no more hope of life or resurrection. You perish. You're destroyed. You don't exist any more. It's the end of you. Here's a few Bible verses about this: ⚫ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). ⚫ "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7). ⚫ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). ⚫ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ⚫ "Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7). ⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . . ⚫ "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3) John 3:16 says the same: we either receive the gift of eternal life, or we perish: ⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) So where does the fiery eternal "hell" idea come from? King James' translators added it to the Bible by using their word "hell" 23 times in the New Testament . . . in place of three different Greek words. Each of those three words has a different meaning . . . and none of those three refers to a place of fiery, perpetual torment. The three Greek words are: ▬ άδης (“hades” in English); appears as "hell" ten times and as "grave" once in the KJV New Testament; refers to the place of the dead, the grave, similar to the Hebrew word "she'ol" in the Old Testament ▬ γέεννα (“geenna” or “gehenna” in English); Appears as "hell" 12 times in the KJV New Testament; refers to the valley used as a dump outside Jerusalem in Jesus' time. Constant fire and maggots there permanently destroyed whatever was thrown in. ▬ ταρταρωσας a verb, an inflection or variant of ταρταρόω; (“tartaroo" in English); used only once: to describe fallen angels being put into a figurative pit or prison, to be held in restraint. You don't have to take my word for this. Look it up with online Bible study tools such as blueletterbible.org. Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word "hell" in place of these three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, from the Catholic church. By using "hell" they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words to conform to their concept of a place of perpetual, fiery torment. Over time translators have recognized this error and footnoted their versions, noting the original Greek words, or even using the original Greek words - and not using the word "hell." Young's Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses the word "hell." Here's an example of Jesus speaking of "hell fire": ⚫ "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:" (Mark 9:47) "Hell" in that verse is from that Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna," a reference to that dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage was thrown there to be destroyed by the constant fire - "hell fire" - and worms - maggots - in the dump. *Jesus likened the destruction of the wicked to being cast into the dump for permanent, final destruction. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump for destruction.* The "lake of fire" in Revelation pictures the same, final destruction: ⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8) Here's another verse where "hell" is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna": ⚫ "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) So, when Jesus said the soul can be destroyed in hell, what did He mean? First, "destroy" is from the Greek word ἀπόλλυμι ("apollymi") which means "to destroy fully" (from _Strong's Defintions_ ). And "hell" in that verse is from the Greek word γέεννα ("geenna" or "gehenna") which was the dump outside Jerusalem, where fire and maggots destroyed all the trash and bodies that were thrown in. *Jesus likened the fate of the unsaved* to being "thrown into the dump," into "hell [gehenna] fire" for destruction. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ⚫ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." When a criminal is executed, the punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing. No, the punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it is permanent, complete and final and irrevocable. It will be the same for the unsaved; they will destroyed and that will be the end of them. Their punishment is finished and stands forever; it is not perpetual, ongoing punishing. The words "permanent" and "final" never appear in the KJV; "everlasting" is often used instead. It's a mistake to assume "everlasting" means an ongoing, perpetual process. It can refer to a permanent, finished and irreversible condition. The "lake of fire" in Revelation is like the gehenna "dump" fire. It pictures final, irrevocable destruction. Those persons who are "cast into the lake of fire" are destroyed. They are destroyed, through death; specifically the second death, after judgment. They have no further hope of life or resurrection. They will never "be" again: ⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8) Even death and the grave (hades) will be destroyed by being figuratively "cast in the lake of fire": ⚫ "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14,15) After the final judgment and the destruction of the wicked, death is effectively destroyed-because everyone left will have received eternal life. And the grave (hades) is destroyed, because no one will be left in the grave awaiting resurrection for judgment. Paul wrote: ⚫ "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26) Death will be destroyed . . . after the wicked have been destroyed through death and the rest have received eternal life.
The Glory is given to God as he gave each of us the freedom to choose heaven or hell... faith in God or denial .... all praise be to God our heavenly father.
Well that isn’t what John Piper believes from what I can see, I may be wrong, but he doesn’t believe in free will which is what you need to make a free decision. You must believe in both free will and predestination to correctly understand the bible, it teaches both as if they are somehow in unison.
@@TheFinalJigsaw For God so loved the elect, and only the elect, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever was predestined to believe in him should not perish. Meanwhile, everyone else was created for the sole purpose of occupying Hell. Yeah, that’s quite a gospel message. That’s why Calvinists hide their true beliefs when evangelizing. There is no Gospel under Calvinism. If you’re elect, you were never in danger of going to Hell. If you’re not of the elect, then there is no good news, and you never had a Savior.
God’s call goes out to all, yet He foreknew who would answer, and thus predestined the elect. Free will and God’s sovereignty are both biblical truths, though the harmonization of the two is not possible with our limited human understanding, similar to the trinity. God is beyond us and beyond our comprehension. He wills no evil and desires all to be saved, yet also wove the fabric of time. Christians aren’t called to comprehend everything about God, but to embrace the truths He HAS allowed us to understand through His word.
One must take all of the Bible into account when answering this question. From what I have thus learned, first consider that we were given free will. God knows the outcome of all of our lives. Remember, God was sorry that He made us due to our bent toward sinning and evil. We have to look at our lives as having multiple endings. God knows the outcome of each, but it's up to us to choose the right path and trust in Jesus, thereby giving us eternal life.
Free will. Willingly choosing God. Looking at the bible as a book end. In the beginning the heavens and earth were created, the end they are restored to how it started.
The biblical doctrine teaches both predestination and humanity as totally free actors with full responsibility over our actions, and it also shows God's intervention in other people's lives to force a turn of events in order to fulfill prophecy. Yea, it's a mess. Yes, it's a paradox. There's no way around it. Many people cannot believe, even less worship God because of these unanswered topics. Yet, God doesn't move a finger to give us the answer. It's like this is a play that has to end before we get the answer, and when the play is over and we can achieve the knowledge of the questions we have pondered over for so long, God says it will be too late. Every time I hear someone say that the bible is so clear and consistent in its message I roll my eyes.
The Bible teaches free will and predestination, this is true, however, it does not teach predestination to salvation or damnation. It teaches predestination for those "in him" to be conformed to the image of his son.
"No one will be in hell who doesnt deserve to be there." How could I deserve anything if it my actions, thoughts, and words were pre-determined by God's choice? If I deserve something, I must have done something to gain the status of me deserving that thing, but if I dont have a choice, how do I deserve anything? Did God predestine me to deserve hell? If so, then I dont know if that's a God worthy of my worship.
My friend this man is a confused old man. Love God with all your might, trust that he loves you and will continue to work on you as long as you surrender to him. Admit you are a sinner whose sins need to be washed away. Know that all deserve hell because all have sinned, however god has called the whole world to know him and repent, yet many do not becuase they love there sin and are wilfully ignorant. Anyone can be born again as god draws every man to repentance,so repent and live pleasing to god and enjoy a relationship with him and you will be with him for all eternity. I cant mention everything as it would be too long but that's the jist
God is simply an evil being who wants all to burn in hell forever and ever. Its possible that "heaven" and salvation are just a trick. Theres 0 evidence god isnt evil.
Your actions are a result of the free will God gave you. A lot of people choose to deny that free will exists because, if it doesn’t, then that means all of our actions are seen from a puppet master viewpoint. This way, we can claim no responsibility over our actions as they were “predestined” and we have absolutely no control over them. This is false. I’m choosing out of my free will to type this message to you to help you understand why free will is a very real thing. You choose to sit up in your bed in the morning and make breakfast. You choose that you want eggs, and then you use your free will to say “nevermind I don’t want eggs, I want bacon”. You exercise your free will every second of your life. Many like to deny that free will exists because denying it then gives them an excuse to accuse God of being evil. How could God say he loves us, then make it so that we have 0 control over our actions, both right and wrong, and then damn us to eternal suffering because of actions we don’t have control over to begin with? Free will is very real my friend. Many people want to understand how free will, Gods sovereignty and predestination all work hand in hand. Their mistake is when they refuse to accept that they won’t understand it 100%. It’s unfathomable to our human minds to understand entirely.
@@hezikiawilliams392 The problem with your point of you is God's omniscience, specially with the first human sin. God knew beforehead everything Adam was going to do even before he created him. All humanity is cursed because of that first sin. I'm a Belieber myself but I can't deny this is hard to understand.. and your argument doesn't give a answer to it.
“No one in hell will be there without deserving to be there” doesn’t seem logical when they are there by predestination. And plus all have sinned and fallen short of glory, so of course everyone that’s there deserves hell. John states that as if you got to heaven if you deserve to be there and you go to hell if you don’t. I would rather say everyone in heaven is there because they don’t deserve to be there, Jesus Christ died for their sins, his grace brings salvation “for all those who believe” there would be no reason for Christ sacrifice if you were predestined to “deserve” heaven.
With all due respect to Pastor John for his faithful ministry....this teaching is diabolical and diametrically opposed to the concept of a loving God. How can a loving God predestine people to hell? How can He give His beloved creation no opportunity to be saved for no other reason than that He 'overlooks' them? The thought is horrifying and not in any way a reflection of His unlimited love for His creation. ‘The Lord is…..patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance.’ 2 Peter 3:9 'The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands ALL people everywhere to repent' Acts 17:30 He would even leave the 99 safely in the fold to seek out the lost. Thank God.
@AVB2 The differences here are: 1. God, by His determined purpose and foreknowledge allowed His sinless son Jesus to take the punishment in our place by dying on the cross, but he was not punished permanently. He rose again and lives forever. 2. Jesus had a choice to not go through with it but chose to do so. 3. Calvinism asserts that sinners who are ‘passed over’ by God (in other words not loved by God) are permanently severely punished without any choice in the matter. This doctrine does not reflect the love of God and turns the unbeliever away. Sad.
@AVB2 I agree, Jesus never disobeyed His Father....because He chose not to. Maybe you overlooked that Jesus 'was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.' Hebrews 4:15 Thus he was tempted to sin, but chose not to. For example, He was tempted by the devil in the wilderness, but chose not to yield to temptation. Matthew 4:1-11 He was also tempted to refuse to go to the cross, but chose to go. '....and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.' Matthew 26:39 Jesus faced choices to obey or disobey His Father and so do we, especially whether to be saved or not. May God bless you brother.😀
Notice how people who reject the things Piper discusses here have zero verses in the bible to back up their argument, you reject the word of God. Some even reveal that they actually hate the real Jesus and have created some kind of idol named jesus that makes more sense to their unregenerate human logic. "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways" Isaiah 55:8. Your ideas of what God should and shouldn't do mean absolutely nothing.
Well I guess you need to hope your right.. Are you one of the elect? How do you know? I mean how do you really know, in an assurance sense? How do you identify others who aren't? How do you truly know your not one of those 'others' who aren't.. and thar your deceived and on route for he'll?
@@broj5495 Nah....Noah and his fam were 'saved' and the rest of the world 'perished' without any atonement for sin. If the Arc is a type for Christ...how come there was no human sacrifice then as an atonement? Ifso facto....Noah and fam were saved without atonement.
@@broj5495 Hi matie...thanks 4 your reply saying: "They used animals as an atonement for sin before Jesus: Quoting from the OT: "For I desire a steadfast love, and NOT sacrifice. The knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings (Hosea 6:6) Many places in Rabbinic literature emphasise that performing charitable deeds, praying, and studying Torah are more meritorious than animal sacrifice. AND that the former can replace animal sacrifice when the Temple is not active. Jews have always believed in ritual atonement through deeds of loving kindness. Thanks for being civil Broj. Say...do you ring Matt Dillahunty on the Atheist Experience as Brojo?
@@tomw6271 Of course God is sovereign. Nobody denies that. But he also gave us free will so he can see if we choose good or evil. It's God who initiates salvation and it's him who draws us, but we have to do our part. Calvinism lacks balance because it teaches that we have no say in our salvation, which is refuted by many Bible verses. God's sovereignty doesn't mean his actions are arbitrary.
The answer begins at 3:34 God is *MOST GLORIFIED* by displaying His full range of perfection, including displaying His *Wrath* attribute for His *Elect* audience, to show them just how much *luck,* I mean *grace* they were given for not being predestined to be burned forever, like the other billions that were. God could've predestined them as well, but He didn't, *THAT* action of God makes His grace shine more brightly, in the eyes of Calvinist theologians.
@@primeobjective5469 Most Calvinists say that man is unable to choose to serve God, which is why God predestined some to choose him and some to be sent to hell...essentially. I partially agree; on our own, we're not capable but with God, all things are possible. He gave us all the ability to choose Him, and as we know, all don't choose him. This is what makes worship possible. It's interesting that God's sovreignty is spoken about so much but we don't give God credit for His creation. He gave us the ability to choose or reject Him. Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
JWJ BROS the Bible mentions in the grave that no one that goes their is honoring the father, neither good or bad because they are unconscious beings at that point until Christ resurrects them and I believe that not the he’ll doctrine
It doesn't glorify God, because He doesn't predestine people for hell. Sick twisting of the scripture. God wants ALL(ALL) to come to repentance. If you think this, do a quick bible study with a knowledgeable person and watch a debate.
Rom 11:33-34 O how deep are God’s riches, and wisdom, and knowledge! How unfathomable are his decisions and unexplainable are his ways! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become his adviser?
The thing is this: God doesn't owe you anything, he can do whatever he wants with you just like he can with me. He can also predestine you to hell just as he can predestine you to salvation. Why should God adapt to your "humanism"? Paul already said : Listen carefully ! Romans 9:11-25: "11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of 'Elohim according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Ya`akov have I loved, but Esav have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with 'Elohim? 'Elohim forbid. 15 For he saith to Mosheh, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of 'Elohim that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Havahn for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against 'Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if 'Elohim, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Havahn us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the goyim? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved." Couldn't it be said more clearly? Does not God have the power to show mercy when he wants to ? And again, is it true that everyone is lost because of his own fault? Although it is God who directs! Proverbs 16:4: "4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:9: "9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps." IMPORTANT: without himself being the author of evil. Especially if everyone were in hell, it would be deserved because after all, we are saved by grace ? Or are we ? So even if only one stepped it would still be heartfelt on his part! Of course, because the signs of God's sovereignty and human will in the Holy Scriptures, i.e. in the Bible, will always remain a mystery. Reply to the video :
People need to distinguish between preDETERMINATION and preDESTINATION. No one's fate has been pre-determined; we all face judgment. Judgment would be a farce if our fates were predetermined ahead of time. God's will, His intention, is that all would be saved. The what He has pre-destined - intends - for all. Unfortunately many will choose their own path - the wide way that leads to destruction" instead. Here's the destiny God wants - intends - for ALL: ⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, *not willing that any should perish,* but that *all* should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) ⚫ "Who will have *all* men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) ⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that *whosoever* believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
That’s true, saying ur no longer a Calvinist really is saying I just no longer believe or agree with the Word of God. Well I’d say then with that t hey went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us
Me too I can except there is some mystery to things without reaorting to Calvin's 5 points which paint a bleak picture but also have massive theological holes in. I except we can't understand everything
Under Calvinist belief, God decrees everything - God decrees sinners exist and be in a state of Rebellion. John Piper says no one in hell will have an excuse. Well doesn't it seem like a pretty good excuse that God decreed them to be that way? I have never seen a Calvinist answer this except to say this is somehow justice so God can show His wrath forever. Is this Good that God should purpose the universe such that endless torment&torture would exist? And this is glorious? Glory for God because He decrees sinners be eternally tortured for doing exactly as He decreed? NO
Predestinate (prohoridzo) does not have anything to do with any going to hell. Only the elect are Predestined. Those that are passed by are Ordained to hell. Get the nomenclature right.
For God so loved the world ,he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Accept it or reject it .your choice.
By the counsel of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are chosen or predestined7 through Jesus Christ to eternal life, to the praise of his marvelous grace.8 Others are left to a life of sin, to their just condemnation, to the praise of his wonderful righteousness.9 7 1 Tim 5:21; Mt 25:41. 8 Eph 1:5-6. 9 Rom 9:22-23; Jude 4.
I'm reading these comments and I find it bitter as fuck that the people who sound the most inhumane are speaking for a creator that's supposed to love all. Very rarely does ANYONE deserve to go to hell, if hell is being accurately described and the people saying "they deserve it" sound demented.
Sorry, IvyViper, but you are using reasoning based on a humanistic standpoint to determine what is morally right for a holy God. That simply never works because these standpoints originate from completely diametrically opposed starting points. I used to attempt to quantify questions such as yours based on a personal/social "moralistic" codex based on my opinions of what I thought were right and wrong. The inherent problem with such thinking is that God is not a man and does not think as fallen, sinful man does--He is holy, just, and faithful. EVERYBODY deserves Hell for sinning against God (Romans 3:23). However, NOBODY has to (John 3:16-18)! Jesus Christ's blood pays for our sins (Romans 6:23) if we leave our life of sin and rebellion and start a new life (become reborn - John 3:3) with Him. That's why Christians celebrate Resurrection Day, aka Easter. Hallelujah!
One thing I don’t believe in, regarding Calvinism, is predestination. I don’t believe it is biblical. Our Lord Jesus Christ desires that NONE should perish and that ALL should come to repentance.
God does not predestine anyone to hell. It is His will that all people would go to heaven but He created us with a free will so we can choose where we spend eternity.
“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die. Ezekiel 18:21-24 NIV
Piper never really answers the question. So, God gets glory by rescuing people from the dark backdrop of sin and judgement, but what about PREDESTINATION? If he predestined people to hell, he's still the bad guy to those who are "incapable" of choosing him, which ought to make us question his goodness. That doesn't make him a God who "loved the world," but a cruel dictator who randomly selects who gets a slice of the goods or not. Sounds more like the Muslim image of God... The other question that comes to mind listening to Piper is, "If we are predestined and saved from said backdrop of sin and judgement, is God the author of sin?" Truly, if we have no choice in the matter and God destined people to damnation then he would also have to be the author of evil because he "elected" before the foundation of the world. Sooo, he made people to be damned for his glory therefore making him the author of sin and evil?
Romans 1-3 makes it clear that mankind rejects what is made known by God to them. Don't let Calvinists use Romans 9-11 as their proof text for election. Romans 9-11 is talking about Israel, not individuals chosen for salvation or damnation. Piper is teaching lies, as does John MacArthur and all of their ilk. The hate the true gospel that is for all men because it robs them of their own glory.
***** Wow, bro. It's a pretty hard statement, but I think you hit the nail on the head with Calvinists, at least the extreme ones who believe in literal double predestination (it's my understanding that some believe God elected some but simply "passed over" the others rather than actually literally predestining them to death). Far as I'm concerned, with guys like Robert Morey, John MacAurthur and so many others, they are hindering people from hearing the Gospel rather than spreading it forth to a needful world. It's almost like they're saying, "hah hah, I'm special, and you're not." (Although I admit there are a few who seem to at least be humble enough to say they think they deserve death, too; they were just blessed to be chosen.) And if you object, they just say "who are you to question God?" (Although we question their view of God, not God Himself, of course.) And only so because, hey, as long as they're one of the elect, they're safe, right? Not like they need to worry about anyone else. Calvinism just feels like an obvious form of pride to me. And if we believers who believe in free will to choose the Gospel (or believe in God's sovereignty according to Universalism) are heretics like I've heard some - not all - Calvinists accuse, well, hey, what can we do it about it, right? According to their view of the Gospel, God WANTED us to believe in something heretical so we'd never come to Him, because apparently making us stay in sin and unbelief glorifies Him. The Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Calvinism: Good News for a precious few, REALLY REALLY bad news for everyone else.
Agreed, the question isn't answered. It's frustrating as the answers to this question get danced around like it did. I get putting borders around a question heavy like this, but the question wasn't addressed.
God created us and wants everyone to be saved . He gives plenty of opportunities to get get saved thru His son Jesus. They beat Jesus , spit on Him and died a horrible death , a sacrifice for our sins. God gives us free will to choose.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. John Ch. 3 v 16. Whosoever means whosoever. There is absolutely no where to indicate that God has predestined anyone to Hell.
Even in the story of Cain & Abel, God told Cain that if he CHOSE to do what is right, he would be accepted. And in the story of Esau & Jacob, Esau had the birth right until he CHOSE to barter it away to Jacob for a bowl of soup. In both cases, Cain & Esau had free will to choose. And they CHOSE to disobey & disregard God. Maybe they were genetically predisposed to SIN more than Abel & Jacob. Maybe God blessed their DNA to be predisposed for RIGHTEOUSNESS. Just as Joseph was. And so he was hated by his brothers. His robe was a metaphor for DNA. Both are woven. Bc who actually wants to murder their brother for a garment or even shoes. And maybe God blesses their DNA from the start bc He knows they will ultimately walk with Him? Bc God knows the beginning from the ending. In Joseph's case, his brothers were also blessed but Joseph was especially blessed & favored by God. When God blesses somebody, He blesses their DNA
@@wakeywakey8603 God’s sovereignty and Man’s responsibility are two different sides of the same coin. The issue with choice is- who is sovereign, man or God? It’s hard to see Esau had a full choice in light of Romans 9:11-21 “for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?” Just worth looking at Ephesians 1:4-5 “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,” - we see that God’s choice matters more than man’s choice.
True...whoever believes goes to heaven....God made every human with free will. He knows who will choose Him. ..just like He knew Eve would eat the apple..and Lucifer would fall. God knew all of this. Its His design for His purpose which is ultimately good. We dont need to understand it but pray for His mercy.
@@alexdshepherd God's sovereignty has zero to do with man's responsibility or free will. My choice to repent or not does NOT take away from God's omniscience or omnipotence
You know, My biggest pet peeve is, when in discussion, people get so arrogant and pretend like they talk like a person in a book would - you just end up sounding pretentious. One example is "One must..." or when you say, "My friend". But aside from that, Calvinism or Arminianism - it literally doesn't matter because at the end of the day, the Bible tells us to repent, follow God, loving Him with everything we have and are, and to go out and make disciples. Regardless, we have a job we have to do, that's why Calvinism and Arminianism are hardly salvational issues. Even though they tie directly to salvation, you don't have to believe in one or the other to be saved. At the end of the day, you are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus, and you are to continue seeking Him and you are to go out and make disciples. You cannot escape the sovereignty of God or the words such as "predestination" or "election". Does God elect some and not others to surely be saved? Yes He does - that is completely scriptural. Are all who are saved a part of the elect? Maybe not, who knows. Does God specifically predestine people go to hell? I personally don't think so, although He, in His sovereignty knows who will accept Him and won't accept Him, but God "Desires that all men be saved" (1 Timothy 2:3,4). The BIG QUESTION: IF, and I say IF, God predestines people to go to Hell, does that make Him evil? Or, if He is sovereign and knows who will go to Hell, but in the end He doesn't save them, is He evil for not saving them? (Hell, eternal damnation, eternal death, whatever you believe - let's just stick with "not saved") *NO*. God is GOOD. To say that He is EVIL for saving some and not others is saying, "I don't believe sin is really that bad". Keep in mind, God is the only One who is good - we are evil and wicked no matter how good we appear unless we are in Christ. If someone dies, and you believed them to be a good person, but they were not sealed in Christ, they were not a good person - they were wicked and evil because their sins were not forgiven. Should you still mourn and be heart broken over their death? Paul certainly was over those who were not saved but died (can't remember where, if you know, let me know! :D). Now, this is hard to be consistent with. If I have a physical, blood sister who dies not knowing Christ, my heart will be broken and I too would want to not go on in life - but it's justice, whether I like it or not. If you say that "It isn't fair for some to be chosen to go to heaven and some go to Hell (or eternal death)" then you have a skewed perspective of sin and how bad it really is because what "isn't fair" is that God is giving you a pass from death and forgiving you having come down as the Son and died for you, taking your place - THAT is NOT fair. Calvinist, or Arminian, it does not matter. We know what constitutes salvation and we know what we are to do on this earth - love God with all your heart, seek Him unto the end, and make disciples. If you choose to say, "Oh I'd never evangelize cause they will get saved no matter what" then you are horribly deceived and, whether you are right or wrong, you are disobeying God. Or if you choose to say, "Once saved, always saved, grace abounds so I'll keep on sinning and have the best of both worlds!" I would urge you to reexamine if you truly have salvation. It is good to pick a side and learn whether or not you would agree with eternal security or falling away, but once it starts affecting your relationship with Christ negatively or your obedience to Him - it has become a problem and a terrible, terrible distraction having now become a tool of the Enemy to fool you. Be wise and continue in the faith! Blessings from ya boiiiii Aaron.
Jesus said: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them". So: am I wooed gently by the grace of a loving God, that brings me to a place where I can freely choose? Or am I prevailed upon overwhelmingly by the power of a sovereign God, that makes my decision inevitable? I doubt that the age-old debate between those who adopt the theology of unconditional election, and those who hold Arminius’ ‘free will’ worldview, will ever be settled, at least not before we meet God face to face. Perhaps both views can somehow be reconciled, in a way that we can’t yet understand? In centering their theology around a strictly literal view of scriptures like Romans 9:18-20, Calvinists come to view the glory of God as being exemplified in the exercise of His sovereign power. While Arminians, in taking a more liberal view, and basing their theology on scriptures like Joshua 24:15 and Philippians 2:5-8, come to view the glory of God as being exemplified in His love and condescension. So, is God all-powerful or all-loving? My understanding of the scriptures tells me that He is both. I would like to make three points: 1. It’s imperative that we always remain open-minded to revelation of the Holy Spirit, and are willing to continuously overhaul our own theological stance, to whatever extent an infinitely wise God would have us do so. As soon as we become uncompromisingly set in our views, we are no longer able to be taught. 2. Ultimately our trust must be grounded in God Himself - and His ability to judge both justly and mercifully - and not in our own doctrinal interpretations, which are in some way compromised by our sinfulness. Salvation lies in the person of He who said "I am the way, the truth and the life", not in any specific doctrine. ("You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.") 3. Neither the Calvinist nor Arminian views undermine the glorious truth of Romans 10:13 “everybody who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”. I take it as read that “everybody who” literally means “everybody who”. So if I may restate this: if you call on the name of the Lord, you are saved, regardless of whatever combination of events - and to what extent they were ordained by God, or were freely chosen by you - brought you to that point. And you may rest assured that your decision to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior glorifies God, irrespective of whatever theological views you might hold.
Or is he saying, it is not possible without God? No one gets hired as an employee unless the employer draws applicants with "help wanted" adds. Does that mean you don't get to have an interview? It is still ALL GOD. I believe they are both understandable P O V's. I have concluded that reformed rejects freewill because we just can't fully understand it. No one can, no matter their theology. I have come to see it like this. Calvinist perspective will be correct AFTER the close of probation or when eternity begins. Freewill is right now. Calvinism will have it more correct in eternity. Either way, freewill is plainly inferred in scripture, yet is a mystery whether we accept it or not. I would just fear that by accepting Calvinism, and I was wrong, I would be guilty of assuming my will for God's, therefore imagining myself as God, in a sense. This notion can work the other way as well. One is hopefully being zealous for God's will no matter the theological perspective.
jamie Russell Jamie, many thanks for your reply. If pressed, I would lean toward a theology that involves libertarian free will, as I see this as a necessary characteristic of perfect love; but I happily admit that it’s shaped by my own philosophical intuitions as much as a literal view of scripture. I agree that concepts like ‘love’ and ‘free will’ have abstract and existential aspects that elude a purely intellectual exegesis of the written word. Ultimately, I believe that all answers are embodied in the nature and character of God, as reflected in the person of Jesus (“anyone who has seen me has seen the Father”). Meanwhile, I see through a glass darkly, and I believe that the best I can do is approach God with the disposition and expectations of a little child (“Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” Mark 10:15).
@@SamTipton Yes,He will draw not only JEWS,but Gentiles too,but this doesn't mean every individual Jew and Gentile.Jesus died for many of ALL MEN.Rev 5; 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Jesus died for and actually redeemed US(God's elect) to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED,TONGUE,PEOPLE,and NATION.Jesus didn't die for everyone in every nation.Jesus knew exactly who He was dying to forgive,He knew each name and He actually purchased these individuals with His blood,their salvation was finished at the cross and 100% of the people Jesus died for will be with Him in Heaven,none will be lost to Hell.This is why salvation is 100% the Lord's doing and 0% man's.No one seeks God,none are good,no not even one and it's for this reason that God must give us a new heart first and God then grants repentance and belief.These are things no natural man cares about or wants.So man's free will can do nothing but send him to Hell,never Heaven.
@@CBALLEN I agree with your interpretation of "all men" But i have to respond to the other thing. God calls us to be Holy as he is Holy. We can abstain from sin, it is our duty as soliders of Christ to struggle against sin in the spiritual battle of this life. We're to put on the whole armor of God and stand. We're to die to the sin. Christians are told to mortify the deads of the flesh. Put to death our members on the earth, think on eternal things. The spirit aids greatly, but it does not force us into obedience. Sin is deceitful and Satan knows how to trick men. Don't believe the lie that we can't help it. We are to be transformed, we are to aid to our faith virtue and to virtue knowledge and to knowledge self control, etc. That psalm is clearly hyperbole and before the cross. God will's for us is sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We cannot be sinless (1 John 1:8). God gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). God became sin that we might become the righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). Christ has made it possible for man to be perfect and righteous. Those who walk according to the spirit are sons of God. Romans 8:13-14 I think. Romans 12:2 -- This is a command. We play a role in it otherwise its not a sacrifice or a spiritual service. WE must struggle against sin (Hebrews 12:4) Read Christ's message to the church at Sardis in Revelation 3. He says their works aren't perfect yet and they should hold fast and repent. That seems to contradict your statement about 0% man. We must believe, confess, repent, be baptized, and hold fast. We must turn to God and he will turn to us. Your teaching has the smell of some weak preaching, a by product of people with itching ears.
2 Peter 3:9 ‘The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.’
If you look at the very first of I and II Peter; it says that they are both addressed to God's Elect. So when 2 Peter 3:8-9 says that God is not willing that ALL should come to repentance.... it means ALL the ELECT.....not ALL of mankind. And ALL the Elect will get saved because Jesus saves ALL the sheep; not one more and not one less.
@@martinleon3145 But John 3:1-15 tells you what it takes for somebody to become a WHOSEVER! It takes God regenerating them through the Holy Spirit....God only regenerates the ELECT.....thats why Jesus told His disciples "You did not choose Me but I chose You!" Salvation worked in the OT the same way. God chose Israel out of all the nations on earth (Amos 3:2). God did not choose the Egyptians, the Babylonians, or the Assyrians. God chose only Israel! God does not choose to save everyone. That is not Biblical at all. God only saves ALL the Elect Sheep; not one more and not one less. Jesus says "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me; and I will raise them up on the last day!"
@@timclark2925 that would make God unjust. The true God is not that kind of God. To choose some souls for eternal life and throw all the others in eternal hell. That is unfair and unjust. To make people suffer eternally so he can manifest his power and give himself glory, that's tyrannical, narcissistic and unjust. Just who do you think God is?
@@dave7825 Your response is IDENTICAL to the one Paul writes in the Bible.....Just read Romans 9:14-21 "14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"
I'm a Christian, I'm not buying it either. We have free will or we don't. I respect some Calvanist preachers who love the word, but predestination is error, and it turns unbelievers off for good reason.
@Backcountry Bobcat God chose people for good reason. One reason was they were willing, though most often reluctant. Another reason, stated often enough, is to give God the glory because they were most often pretty unsuited. Think Moses being slow of speech and not eloquent, so God provided Aaron as a helper. Most every disciple was very willing, but a total ragtag team of fishermen, tax collectors etc. Only Paul and Luke were men of letters. Again, if there is no partiality w/ God, why would he randomly pick some for destruction, some for election? There's no love or free will in that. It's makes God and autistic player, treating us like a boy who pulls the wings off flies just to see what will happen. I don't serve that God. I'm not sure why Calvinists settle for that in many ways, but it can create a lot of arrogance at being elected and many of us have noted a lot of cold heartedness among them. It's a harsh doctrine. But hey, if you are elected, just cuz God said, there's no need to be very loving, gracious and all the rest.
The Bible says to dust you are and to dust you will return what what exactly the h*ll is going to burn if we are made from dust... that's my line of argument yours doesn't make sense it actually contradicts with what the Bible teaches .. Gehena is A greek word for hell why do those 2 words have diffent meanings tell me???
Piper says that God created the universe to display the full range of his perfections including wrath, power, judgment, justice, etc., Let's think about this. If God needed to make the universe to do just as such, then that means the He is dependent of something. That would not make Him God. I don't believe God needed to do anything, but instead, because of His love, He decided to create a universe and conscious beings to willingly reciprocate that same love.
+brivera6462 But they didn't willingly reciprocate that same love. They broke the only rule He gave them. In fact, since they were made completely good, they didn't do anything wrong, and they couldn't. Breaking that one rule was the only thing they could do that was wrong. AND THEY DID IT! AND SHORTLY AFTER THEY WERE MADE. The only means to help them was for God Himself to become man and take the punishment Himself.
+deezynar with all due respect, you don't make yourself too clear with whatever point you want to make. I assume you are referring to Adam and Eve in the garden, correct? Then you said they couldn't do anything wrong but then did something wrong (contradiction). I'm sorry but I am completely lost with your response.
brivera6462 They were not normal people. They were not like you and me. God made them without sin, THEY WERE UNABLE TO SIN, EXCEPT for that ONE THING. It is not complicated. They had only one thing to avoid and they were on it like white on rice in a nanosecond.
Where are you getting your information from because that is clearly not scriptural. Adam and Eve were just as human as you and I. Also, what you stated about not being able to sin BUT THEY SINNED by disobeying God is a clear self-contradiction on your part. You say that had one thing to avoid-- meaning they had a choice. If you have read the Bible you will see that it is our Free Will to choose that will determine our eternal destiny. Adam had just as much of a choice to obey or disobey God's command as we do to choose to accept or reject Jesus' gift of salvation. Once again, I do not know where you are getting your information from but please check the validity of your sources or your ability to interpret. I do not say that to offend but more as a constructive response.
brivera6462 You are in serious error if you believe that pre-fall Adam was just like you and I. What I have said previously is very simple, and right from the bible. "God saw all that He made, and it was very good." Man was made "very good." That means Adam and Eve couldn't sin. Everything they wanted to do was in line with God's will. God made one test for them that they could potentially do that would be against His will, eat the fruit that will give them something they lacked. They already had goodness, it was evil that they knew nothing about. Adam was not like us until after he rebelled. Adam had no free will to sin before he ate the fruit, except in that one, very specific action. After Adam's rebellion, mankind is spiritually dead. In fact, spiritual death is passed from father to child. It means that no man will choose God, because all are conceived with a hate for God. Mary was made to be pregnant by God, because spiritual death comes through men. The virgin birth is based on this. Jesus was like Adam was before the fall. Because Jesus stayed obedient, and took the punishment meant for those who God predestined, they will have spiritual life given to them for the first time in their lives.
this guy avoids the real question. glorifying God is what people do, when they praise and worship him. the Bible says God does not glory in the destruction of anyone. answer that pastor John?????
it is this that God knows the end from the beginning ,,,,,that is how this all comes about , our ways are not his ways and who can know the mind of God
The word "hell" is an English translation of several words none of which have anything to do with eternal torment. As in Adam all died, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. Check out tentmakerdotorg.
True brother. I made a short video explaining each word Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus and why they should not be translated hell in the first place. ua-cam.com/video/UjQdJ-7Nb2M/v-deo.html
The Germanic concept of Hel is basically identical to Hades. We all go to Hel when we die. Some go to the good place and some a place of punishment. Then there is the resurrection and the entering into the fullness of God’s presence.
The flaw in Piper's reasoning is that he fails to understand that God's patience is always towards salvation, not damnation. Romans 9:22 must be read in the context of 2 pet 3:15 where Peter explicitly explains Paul's understanding of God's patience. God genuinely wants all to be saved and patiently longs for that, but those that refuse God's patient outward call are going to end up damned. God's glory resides in his love and patience toward the lost, not in the intent of their damnation. Piper fails to understand the true nature of God's love and patience. Bear in mind that Piper's understanding of Romans 9 is a historic novelty as of the 16th century. There were no Calvinists prior to the Reformation. It is a theological aberration, not orthodoxy.
First, I would like to praise Pastor Piper for trying to answer such a difficult question. He has tried hard and does offer some reasons. However I am still totally unconvinced. Let me make a couple of points. The real question here hinges on a Calvinist view of salvation. Why does God create the vast bulk of human beings for a short finite time here of earth - where they may be happy and fulfilled or more probably where they will not be - and then to consign them to eternal torture of excruciating agony without giving them any chance of avoiding that eternal destiny? If God does that, could we see Him as all-benevolent or would we have to see Him as a monster? John Piper says that the delight and joy of those in Heaven will be all the greater against the black backdrop of the others consigned to perdition. But God could change that backdrop if He wished. Imagine a lottery where if you win you get to live in a palace and everything is perfect but if you lose you have no food and you starve to death. Each week, a new winner takes his or her place in unimaginable luxury and gets an extra kick out of watching the losers die. How sick is that and how sadistic must a person be who could think up a game like that? If I was forced to embrace Calvinism, I don't know if my faith could survive it. Thank the Lord for Jacobus Arminius who used the Bible and reason to develop and structure a system which means Christ died for us all and each of us has the chance to accept the free gift of salvation through God's grace and love.
If I were to accept arminianism while maintaining a proper view of my sin -for the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), idk how I wouldn't be crushed by the weight of that. If one sin deserves death and we all sin many many many times daily, how can people who think one can lose their salvation not think they've lost their salvation or lose it all the time? If one believes one can lose their salvation then they must believe hebrews 6:4-6 says that if you lose your salvation "it is impossible to restore them again to repentance". That would mean if you lose it you could never get it back. Thank God that's not what Hebrews 6 is about since being "enlightened" nowhere in the bible actually means saved, and IF saved then you will not lose your salvation. John 10:27-30 verse 28 "I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and THEY WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER PERISH, and no one will snatch them out of My hand." Emphasis my own of course to try to really get the message of that clear. And verse 29 brings it home. Anyway, if we are able to lose our salvation, which clearly the scriptures do not teach that, then every single one of us would my friend. None of us would ever have a chance. Jesus didn't die for some of our (the elect, Romans 9) sins. He died for all of them knowing what all we would do. We all break the two greatest commandments every single day man. We don't love God the way we should every single moment every single day and we don't love our neighbors as ourself as we should every single moment every single day. If there's anything we would lose our salvation over, surely it would be from breaking the 2 greatest commandments. Thank God for the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. His promises that what He started, He WILL bring it to completion (Philippians 1:6). Without that doctrine, how can any of the other doctrines that go along with salvation be enjoyed if The Lord will not absolutely keep those whom He has saved? What does justification and being made righteous and all the rest matter if we are able to lose it? Understand my friend, salvation starts with The Lord. Repentance is a gift from God. Salvation is maintained by The Lord through the power of His Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirits ministry of sanctification, and ultimately God is the one who brings us to glory. Beginning, middle and end... ALL God. Turn from the heresies of arminianism brother. Although Arminians will deny it, that false doctrine is a very self-righteous doctrine. There's a mindset that comes with it that their sins aren't nearly as big and serious as they are (since I've never met an Arminian who would say they've lost their salvation over the sins they committed just in the first few hours of being awake that day) while not viewing as big and as serious Christ's finished work on the cross.
@@Res187Evil rofl. Wow. Apostasy is a thing. The Bible talks about it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you "lose" your salvation if you sin. Walking away from God or losing your faith is NOT a single sin you committed ("ops, I took two samples at Costco..."). You want to claim that the entire world of believers for 6,500 years where all heretics until John Calvin saved us with his gospel that he wrote from magical invisible tablets that he read with his magical invisible glasses? Seriously, that makes no sense. Judaism doesn't believe in anything even close to Calvinism and the world didn't even know about Calvinism until the 1500s. I think you've been blinded brother.
@@huntsman528 Reformed Christians believe it's the original Apostles doctrine, and the only one truly taught by scripture. It's not a new concept, just one that was lost for a time while the Catholic Church expanded.
@@ChristopherChavez Even Calvin says Augustine is the only early church father to talk about calvinistic beliefs. And he didn't preach that until the end of his life. It also appears to have come from gnostic and Manichean religions, which is what Augustine believed prior to converting to Christianity.
@@huntsman528 Who said anything at all about Calvin? Everything I wrote on I backed up with scripture & not the words of a man. Although I am reformed in my theology, I do not consider myself Calvinist. Argue against the actual scriptures I used rather than using a strawman fallacy to take attention off the real issue so we can have legitimate, and hopefully beneficial, discourse. I agree apostasy is real. It's clearly in the scriptures, but apostasy only shows the person was never saved to begin with. True born-again Christians saved by the power of the Holy Spirit can not undue what God has done. Unless you want to say mans choices are higher & stronger than Gods...?
if everyone is in a rebellion against God, it means they are His enemies...God commands us to love everyone, even our enemies.... so if i love all my enemies(and by that i mean that i wish for them nothing buut the best, and them to be with God forever and ever), i'm greater than God, Who just love some of His enemies and give them grace to be saved?
In people's eyes, the God is the enemy, they treat him like that cause they are blinded. But God loves all and all he wants is to be acknowledged as their Lord that gave them life and a chance to be saved through Jesus and by his grace. God could sweep everything away but he has patience with us sinners. He's showing us great mercy. It's just incredible when I think about it as I'm writing this.
kudos to Tony who has to say basically the same exact line at the end of every single podcast xD already more than 1000 times to date. Feeling sorry for ya, it's ok to play a recording ;) thank you guys so much for your answers regarding predestination, free-will and God's sovereignty and grace.
Eze_18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? It glorifies God to create human beings as sinners and send them to hell, yet He takes no pleasure in sending them to hell, but He decides to create them to send them straight to hell anyway? Makes perfect sense, John.
Piper does nothing but evade the question. He says there will be no one in hell who has repented, but his doctrine teaches that you can't repent unless God makes you. He also has the cheek to say the bible doesn't EVER state that God predestine people to hell, which is true, but he believes it regardless, because Calvin is a higher authority to him than scripture.
I don't think he evades the question at all. I just think many don't like his response. Yes it is God who grants repentance but he is not obligated to save everyone. That's what makes him a sovereign ruler. He can do what he pleases. That may sound "Unjust" but God is not unjust he is the very definition of Justice. And yes the Bible does not clearly say blatantly that people are "prestined to hell" but there is definitely scriptural support for the doctrine itself. What many people don't understand is that Calvinist are not calvinist because of John Calvin. Calvinist are calvinist because when it comes to biblical exegesis it complety harmonizes with what Calvin taught. Same with Luther, same with Wyclifee.
Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 HAVE I ANY PLEASURE AT ALL THAT THE WICKED SHOULD DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye. Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? God would not have given the exhortation for man to TURN if man had no free will and was "totally incapable" of doing so, hence the Calvinist assertion that man is "incapable" is false and refuted with the truth of God's Word.
Exactly. God gave us intelligence in order to THINK. And free will in order to CHOOSE. Like Pinnocchio whose father turned a dummy into a little boy.... a dummy in the flesh with free will lol. When Pinnocchio sees the evil that controls Pleasure Island (the world, esp USA), he TURNS AWAY from his sins & COMES OUT OF HER. To go SEEK HIS FATHER. With whom he endures Tribulation in the belly of the Beast but makes it back home & reconciled to His Father. That was the story of the PRODIGAL SON & REPENTANCE ❤
@@gab31282 And most Christian's seem to believe the original sin was eating an apple. Or whatever fruit it was. Aprons made from Fig leaves... maybe it was FIGS which are full of Seeds?? Or simple disobedience = eternal death. But the Original Sin was primarily PRIDE. Eve believed the biggest scam ever.... you can be your OWN GOD = do as thou wilt = there is no Judgement. Adam double downed.& fell from God's Grace. He went from a King to a Slave. They ate/consumed/consummated the marriage/covenant with The Serpent & became grafted into The Tree of [Death]. Knew & Knowledge are the same root word. When Adam KNEW His wife, she conceived. Clearly biblical KNOWING means the husband SOWING His SEED into the EARTH. That's what happens in a GARDEN & that's why God made Adam & Eve from Dust of the Earth. God judged them, cursed them & threw them out of the Garden of Eden. He said, YOUR DESIRE WILL BE FOR YOUR HUSBAND. The one with the Seed = Husband & Earth = Bride. Knowledge of Good & Evil = Bad Seed. Adam & the entire Fig Tree Generations have been reproducing Bad Seed. And we're all born with the same Original Sin of Vain Pride = Playing God, just like Lucifer who tried & failed to take over God's throne. We're all clones of Adam & Eve... prone to deception & slaves to [subject to] Sin, Death & Hell. Only the Blood of Jesus & the Grace of God can reGENErate us (Born Again). We need an extreme DNA makeover. From the image of Adam to the image of God.
@@gab31282 Wrong! Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 HAVE I ANY PLEASURE AT ALL THAT THE WICKED SHOULD DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye. Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Only a person that’s rebelling against God would be offended by this. Seek him with all your heart and you will find. None of us deserve Heaven. So if God decides to save some and not others he isn’t wrong or unjust .
No but the offence comes in the last part where he says because of hell we’ll be more overjoyed in heaven and that just comes off sadistic to me. God takes no pleasure in the death of the unrighteous. That is what I believe and that is the God I worship and serve.
@@dmr4702 We need to read the Bible from start to finish tho. It's scary stuff, but Piper is mostly correct. Except the Eternal concious torment view of hell. I can see annihilationism clearly in the Bible ( which is also scary, even though more merciful ).
@@CappieBG True we should read the bible from start to finish, but I’ve read a fair amount of the bible and I see clearly how God works his purposes through man’s own decisions, I think coming to a conclusion like believing it’s all just a big play and God gave us the illusion that we make free choices just for us to never be given a choice sounds like it would compromise God’s integrity. God is not a God of confusion, to be a Calvinist you still must live life as if you have a choice and have the mindset that you have a choice, why would God make that a fact if he would tell us that we have no choice. One of the reasons God’s work is so fascinating is because he works through man’s own free will, he works out his purposes through people’s own choices, he strengthens our own position yes, does he choose our position? I don’t believe so. Jesus spoke in parables so that the Pharisees couldn’t understand what he was saying: “this is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.” - Mathew 13:13 He knew that they would have a chance to listen if he told them straight up, but he was allowing their own hardness of heart to keep them in their own ways in order that his purpose could work through their own will.
Read Deuteronomy 18:21 all prophecies come to pass so when it says that people get cast into hell that's a prophecy therefore people were predestined for that
He's skirting around the issue. We know nobody will be in Hell who doesn't deserve to be there. However, how do we determine who has rebelled against God to deserve punishment? How do you determine rebellion? At what point do you determine what is rebellion and what is not? Can you enjoy Shakespeare, for example? You can? Well, I ask can you enjoy plays that glorify deceit, tragedy, murder, occult. If you can, surely this is rebellion. So, you're going to Hell. For eternity. That's just one example. Kids playing Cowboys and Indians. Playing about violence. Is that rebellion from God? Does that deem punishment in Hell? Its a tough question to ask and I believe no one has the answer.
We know through what God's word teaches just like anything that pertains to God, Life or godliness. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if Elohim peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong-not that we will appear to have stood the test, but that you will do what is right, even if we appear to have failed. For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. In fact, we rejoice when we are weak but you are strong, and our prayer is for your perfection. Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load. Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor. This verse should sum it up for you,. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Frej von Fräähsen If it causes hatred for anything, it's the sin in our own lives. God hates sin, therefore we (Christians) hate sin; God loves people, so we love people... Christians hate the sin, not the sinner. I'm sorry if you feel it's the other way around. Please look into reading the Gospel, it teaches some amazing things and gives an understanding of what real love is better than any other book you or I can ever read. Luke 6:32-36, "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." Also, read 1 John 4:7-21, keep in mind John is talking directly to people that already claim to follow Christendom, so make sure to put it in cultural perspective; it's importance to understand the audience to which he is writing. Hopefully these few verse will give you a small glimpse at what Christianity is about. I would again encourage you to read at least the first 4 parts of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John... then see if you still feel that the Christian belief system is focused on building hatred.
You read a book and claim ownership of, and knowing the thoughts of, a supreme being. I don't acknowledge the authority of the Bible or christians or your so called "god". I am infinitely grateful that I was raised in a rational and secular country that doesn't use god as a legitimizing force for owning guns or killing gays/ blacks/ arabs. Your faith has advocated owning of slaves and violence against others. I will never ever see your lifestyle as a force for good in the world.
Frej von Fräähsen That's all fine and good, the great thing is we are able, each of us, to make that choice for ourselves. The problem is, that we are force fed other things that we "must believe" in order to be considered rational human beings. That in itself, is that opposite of rationality, it's basically thought slavery. People should be allowed to come to their own conclusions based on the evidence they analyze, not what someone tells them to believe. I'm not sure which country you are talking about when you talk about one that legitimizes using force for owning guns, killing gays, blacks, arabs... I think the few theocracies out there are in eastern Asia; so I'm not well versed on them. If you believe Christianity has advocated owning slaves; I would say you have misread or misunderstood many important parts of the Bible. The slavery of the OT and even that which is eluded to in the NT was not the same as slavery in the pre-American Civil War era. I'd encourage you to do research on that believe making vague and less than accurate comments about it. Lastly, read Philemon in the NT. It's a short book of the Bible, specifically verses 15-16. It most definitely does not advocating slavery. I encourage you to read the entire book and speak with a pastor or other Christians on the subject. These conversations are received better in person, rather than this informal youtube messaging.
Blasphemer. First John 2:2. First Timothy 2:4. John 3:16-18. John 6:40 and John 6:29. First John 5:13. Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, First Corinthians 15:1-4, For it is the POWER of God to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. First Corinthians 1:21 John 3:18. Those who have once believed are saved for ever because they believed of their own free will. God in His sovereignty gave man a free will to either accept his free gift of eternal life or not. B Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, (eternal life) and the calling of God, (John 12:32) are without repentance. Irrevocable, can not be changed back. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. The gift is eternal life when we believe it. Not a reward for good behavior.
@@ervabarnesii4892 True. God is Holy: can't tolerate sin, that's why we oughta be washed in the blood. God is love: that is why he sent Jesus Christ to die for our sins. God is just: that is why he punished Jesus Christ the just in our place, us, the unjusts. Jesus Christ tasted the holy wrath of God the Father in our place. All things seems to revolve around God being love and holy.
NOBODY is predestined to Hell. Ever. If you think God predestines people to Hell, you are not believing the word of God, nor do you know the heart of God. Please read 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:1-4 for more understanding. How could God grant us free will if He would defeat it by fate/predestination? His will (Jeremiah 29:11-13) for our lives is not always done. Regardless, ultimately, it's not if anyone knows OF Jesus, but how many are truly known by Jesus. (Luke 13:22-28)
Dkabakjian18 Of course the word of God applies to us the same today as it did in ancient times. Are you a cessationist? Do you think God changes His mind? Do you not understand the prophetic gift? Do you reject the Holy Spirit? Your statement about how the passage of Jeremiah does not apply to us today is foolish and reveals a deep lack of knowledge of God's heart for us. (Hebrews 13:8)
Do you think that everything that happens is God's sovereign will? Nobody should. However, God has a plan for our lives just as certainly Satan does. The plan we agree to must come to pass is the one we fulfill. "Many plans a man has in his heart, but it's the Lord who determines his steps." In summation, God's word through Jeremiah was not even realized in the lives of all Jews, but God's promises are always 'Yes and Amen' in Jesus. I fully agree with you in that God does not bless us to simply make us healthy, wealthy, and wise, but He blesses us so His will for our lives can come to fruition.
Not predestined to go to hell, but God certainly pre knows what our choices will be. Though He gives us every opportunity and reason to change direction. He will not force us to conform. We are not His pets we are His children. He has given the respect letting us choose.
That’s the big debate. Did God predestine is to make these free will choices or are they actually free will choices and God has to work through the Choices of men. It’s a very difficult subject to get into because it’s hard to say what God did and does
Why would God allow someone to be born if He knew ahead of time that the person would end up in hell? It would more merciful for the person not to be born.
That’s exactly what Jesus said about Judas, but Judas was still used to bring glory to God. The whole point is that God can do as he pleases with his created beings. He doesn’t send someone to hell. They choose to go to hell, but God is so powerful that he is able to bring himself glory through a sinner who has rejected him. Read Romans and explains this perfectly.
God didn't predestine any of his children for Hell,read the parable of the wheat and the tares and take it literally,not everyone in the world is of God,Jesus planted HIS children,the wheat in the world and the enemy planted his children,the tares in the world,Jesus Christ is going to SAVE ALL OF HIS CHILDREN! and not one of them will be lost. Bob.
@@kritikasampleone7457 I agree with Janet, Christ said MY sheep hear my voice. In other ocassions he told men that they were of their FATHER the devil. Imagine me saying that to someone. Those are strong words. and these are only 2 examples. Its a very deep subject that i would like to know more about... but it does seem that their are children of lucifer. Look at Cain for example, or Nimrod etc. However they are all still Gods creation, but evil is the backdrop to show his glory.
Please let me know where this assessment of John Piper's god is in error: Let’s look at the god of John Piper, as if the god of John Piper is speaking: “Hey guys (Jesus and the Holy Spirit), it’s been really good so far, let’s create a world where billions of people are born and - some, we’ll elect to be saved, and others, well - not so, and we’ll let loose a fallen character named Lucifer, who becomes Satan, to tempt them of things that we will have written into being, for their own good, even though they do not know what is good or evil, but, we’ll show them in such horrific fashion, it will be unmistakably known, the difference - and Jesus, you are going to go down there and die for all the elect’s evil acts, forgiving them of their sins, in order that they can praise me for such (even though I am writing into being every rape, murder, and other sin, which Satan will have license over them, in order that they would - like I said before, know the difference between good and evil); whereas, the un-elect will stand as an example of what happens when you don’t place your faith in me - and the Holy Spirit does not convict them into believing in what Jesus did for the elect’s sins, because they are the un-elect, and cannot be woken to believe such, and cannot praise me for my glory, for they’ll spend an eternity in hell being punished for such, as they were designed for - an unwillingness to bend a knee to their Creator, who created them in order that they could not. WHAT?!? Yeah, that’s the schizophrenic, Cognitively Dissonant god of John Piper’s understanding, whom I pray will not infect other minds, hearts, and souls with such belief.
Your explanation is partly true about the predestination doctrine (not entirely true). Yes, he chose to save some sinners and predestine others to hell cause they deserved it just like Piper explained. In the end, God is still righteous by doing so because He is the sovereign God. He shows mercy to those whom He may show mercy, and compassion to those whom He may have compassion (Romans 9:15). Again, because He is GOD.
You don't have to understand it but the bible does point to pre destination . I believe it's because he already knows our hearts and our choices. He still wanted to create he may have had to not create at all if he wanted to avoid evil. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. His ways higher than our ways.
The following Scriptural passages debunk Calvinism's false teaching that it glorifies God to predestine people to hell: Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye. Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? God would not have given the exhortation for man to TURN if man was "totally incapable" of doing so, hence your Calvinist assertion that man is "incapable" is false and refuted with the truth of God's Word.
God doesn't need to show anybody mercy, he would be just to send everyone to hell? so how does it glorify God to predestine people to hell? a better question to ask is- why does God have mercy on ANYONE?
Because He loves them. He does love the world. However the way He loves the elect is like the way a husband has a love for his bride. Its a love that sets her apart. Its a love that distinguishes her. No other woman could ever have the same effect on him. because this groom is not an adulterer so there is no openness in the marriage and his devotion to His bride is traced back before the creation of the world. He is all knowing (omniscient) and is beyond time space and matter. beyond time meaning In the beginning God was already there. He created the heavens (space). and He's beyond everything including the foundation of the world. My question for anyone having trouble understanding God's predetermination of everything (not just people) is what is his purpose for evil?
don't believe it man. we have free will which god will not violate. we choose our destiny. Jesus Christ died for all mankind not just the elect and the bible says he became our sin, he took the punishment for EVERY man's sins. its literally up to us if we wanna be with him or not
I have faith in God, yet just like anyone else can, I have questions. Here's one: So, I was nothing. I asked for nothing because I was nothing, non-existent. Then, God allowed for me to exist. Then, I grow to learn that I either do good and well by God's word/law if I want to be saved and enter heaven or I don't follow as instructed and I "burn" in hell. How do I have "freedom of choice" when the choices are only two and my opinion to the matter was none and neither was I given the choice to exist and participate in this stressful event of "do or die"?
Imagine, for a moment, having six children. You had the power to make them all happy (pre-destine them to happiness). Instead, you get the bright idea to butcher five of them in front of the one remaining. You do this because the one remaining child will now think more highly of you because they will learn that you are not merely a loving father but a heartless murder too - who has arbitrarily chosen not to butcher you. You can also imagine, as God tosses your children into the fire, how filled with joy you will become as you selfishly say "thank you God for picking them and not me". Does it need to be pointed out that a more horrific view of God could not be imagined? If God commands you to love your enemies while he hates them is that not hypocrisy of the greatest magnitude.
Imagine that you were a king whose citizens killed and attacked your only child. The king would be fully just in punishing the criminals, but in his great mercy he decided to save some of them. Those who he saved would be evermore grateful since their king had mercy.
God does love his enemies. He showed his love in this, that while we were still sinners, he died for us. Anyone who goes to hell WILLINGLY chooses to rebel and not accept him.
@@jvigel2101 You're confusing popular evangelicalism (which also paints a horrible picture of God, but that's another discussion) with traditional Calvinism - which is what the speaker in this video promotes and which I am responding to. In traditional Calvinism, God does not love his enemies. He hates them the way he hated Esau and all the others He predestined to eternal hell.
Whoever said unbelievers are the children of God? Indeed they are not. John 8 is clear that those who are God's children will hear His voice and believe. Those who are not His children are children of the devil and simply will not follow.
@@wildbill6536 Ah, so God doesn't kill his own children for his glory - just your children. Of course, that makes everything fine. Also, who decided who his children are? HE did!! Whatever you call them, they are humans who have the potential to experience both love or torment. Why does it make a difference what title God decides to put on those HE CHOSE to save and those HE CHOSE to butcher in hell? God DECIDED to love some and torment others. Not because some were his children and some were not. It was God who decided who would burn in hell and God who decided that they would not be his children. Please stop defending your filthy Satan-god who hates most of the people you love - maybe even you, you can't be sure yet.
God CHOOSES, in eternity, to pass over the reprobate, letting them die in their sin. I don't care how a Calvinist tries to soften the language, the God of Calvinist theology is unjust.
Problems with this theology: a) Paints God as incomplete... He "needed" to show is wrath, so created imperfect/destined to sin beings? That is not a perfect God. b) The "darkness" that brings out the "light" more is not a good perspective of God either. If He is light, there is no need for darkness to show how good the light actually is. c) Piper never once mentioned "love" as the motive for God to create humans or really at all in this message. Love is the key to who God is. It is central. It is WHO He is. d) I would not be appreciative to a God who says "look at all these sinners going to hell, aren't you glad you aren't one of them?" I would say "no, I love my neighbor as myself, I can't be happy that you picked me and not all those others". God is not vindictive or petty like that. He earnestly desires that all may be saved. (1 Timothy 2:4)
Then who did John see in revelation getting thrown in the lake of fire? Real people or make belief? If they were real then it's obvious to see that God already knows who's going to hell.
He didn’t get to the bottom line. Sure there won’t be anybody in Hellfire who isn’t in a state of rebellion. But, if they are predestined to be in rebellion then you still haven’t answered the question of how this glorifies God. If anything, this picture of God makes Him worse than the devil. God is love. Anything that is contrary to that you can be sure is a false doctrine. This is why I KNOW that Calvinism is a perversion of scripture.
Hell does not exist. The phrase 'eternal punishment' is 'kolasis aionios' in the greek which literally means 'discipline age-long.' There is not eternal torment but it is a disciplinary place that has a beginning and an end. Which means that sinners will be able to repent at the judgement seat of Christ which is his 1000 year reign. After everyone has repented there will be a new Earth, heavens and Jerusalem where there will be no crying and pain. "Every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Did he say Christians? Or did he say everyone. If you think he said some you are reading into the text and putting your presuppositions on the text.
I cant believe how lightly we throw around the phrase "in hell forever". Do any of us truly believe in this? FOR. EVER. Consciously suffering, without ceasing, every single moment of eternity. With no hope of it stopping. No hope of it getting better. Day after day after day. Now that's a scary sentence, but I haven't even scratched the surface of the incomprehensible suffering that, according to Piper, some of our friends and family have no way of escaping. If it's God's will that none should perish, then none shall perish.If it's true that with no hope of an alternative, some will suffer for an infinite amount of time, then my whole existence is in anger, anguish, sorrow and pain for those I've known and lost who are currently suffering this fate. Oh wonderful for me that I am saved, but how selfish of me to be pleased with my own salvation when billions of others are in eternal torment. Sorry, I don't buy it. Not my God.
@@Texasguy316 He worships the true God, who is love. This is precisely why he has the courage to reject the demonic bitter "god" of Calvinism - its fear-filled followers to afraid to consult the light within them that tells them that the law of love is far superior to the words of men. You can not worship an image of hate while at the same time love. Even Satan can cloth himself in scripture verses that deceive those who are not yet ready to face the questions every adult must face. Instead, they just obey the fear placed in them by other men. God loves you so much that its not in him to ever reject you - no matter how long it takes you to learn what is good and what is evil. That's a God who is actually worthy of worship. If worship was due to the powerful then even Hitler would deserve some praise.
There are many scriptures that show hell is real, is eternal and many go there. We can't dress it up. We all have family and friends there. God is not willing for any to perish and He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but we have free will and He can't force us to make the right choices.
@@thewhole_picture1743 Why can't God extend your free will to accept him in the afterlife after you realize the true nature of your choices? There doesn't seem to be anything stopping him from this. Why an arbitrary deadline for mercy at physical death?
God cannot condemn us for a choice we couldn't possibly make in the first place. If God ordained before the foundation of the world to save some sinners, then he also ordained to condemn people to hell before they ever made a choice in their lives. This concept totally contradicts the scriptures.
It's not a contradiction. God says He will give mercy to whom he will give mercy. That means He freely chooses to NOT give mercy to some. Since we are all sinners, we are at enmity w/ God. We are not at all w/peace w/Him right from the get go. God is a just God. God gives mercy to some.He gives justice to others. (hell). The question why God saves some is not the question we should be asking. We should be asking, "Why does God give mercy to even ONE person!" But thanks be to God that He DOES give mercy to some, even though they were born into this world at war w/God. Salvation is of the LORD. (not of ourselves). Looking back at your 1st sentence, "God cannot condemn us for a choice we couldn't possibly make in the first place." That statement is misleading, because we all inherited sin from Adam and Eve. And we make choices all the time. We are inclined to evil in those choices UNTIL the Holy Spirit regenerates the spiritually dead person. THEN, the person is inclined towards the things of God. The struggle of the flesh will remain, but one a person is born-again, that individual basically wants to please God and the process of sanctification begins. It seems to me, that you don't think it's "fair" that God freely chooses to save some while not saving others. But who are you to say whats fair? You are the clay and not the Potter. God is righteous in all His judgments. You, on the other hand, are simply opinionated and don't know what's "fair" or just. That's God's domain alone..especially on the matters of whom or whom will not be saved.
That's easy to answer. By human standards, I was highly unlikely to ever know Him. I was raised by atheists. Growing up I never thought of Him. But God directly dealt with me. One day I had no interest in Him, then the next day I felt a strong hunger to know Him(or at least to see whom He might be, if He existed at all). I started reading the Bible and instantly I knew deep inside of me that His Word was Truth. But being the stubborn skeptic I was, I examined the Scriptures carefully, researched how the Bible came to be, studied church history,etc. The more I looked into all of those things the more convinced I was that the God of the Bible was true. I also looked at the other main religions and world views(including conclusions one must make from the atheist position). None of them made rational sense at all. But what rang true the most was Jesus and His historicity. Even His enemies recognized that he was historical. Some even believed He did miracles but attributed the miracles from coming from Satan! All in all, we must come to grips about Jesus. Is He whom He said He was or not? I am HIGHLY convinced He IS God in the flesh that came down from heaven to save His people from their sins. Being passive about it will be no excuse when we face Judgment. I hope you also research all these things!
I would agree with you that God does not desire people to go to hell. But God is eternal and His attributes are consistent and unchanging. So that causes quite the dilemma now doesn't it? God does not wish hell for people yet He MUST punish sin and execute His righteous justice . There are but two destinations in the afterlife: heaven or hell. Since sin cannot be in God's presence in heaven, then those that do not have their sins covered by the blood of Jesus and have Jesus' righteousness imputed into that individual, what destination will they go? It's impossible to be in heaven if they rejected the Gospel and lived a life of no repentance, therefore they MUST go to hell. If God allowed those people into heaven, then He would NOT be a righteous Judge! When we read the Bible, we must allow the Bible to interpret itself. In other words, we can't choose one verse that we prefer while ignoring other Scriptures. We must look at the whole counsel of God. The Bible mentions numerous times that there will be people in hell. God does not 'enjoy' to judge people to hell, but He must. God is love. God is holy. The two are not at odds w/one another. They don't contradict themselves. "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"Ezekiel 18:32. But do all people repent? And have faith? Obviously not. So IF a person does not have faith and does not repent, then it means that it is impossible for them to receive eternal life. So if they won't be able to enter heaven, we must conclude they will go to hell. God doesn't take pleasure in them going to hell. But since He is perfectly holy and righteous, he must execute justice and send souls to hell.Period.
Jesus gave a terrifying warning when he said "Many will say to me on the last day and say Lord Lord, didn't we do many works in your name, and I will say to them, depart from me for I never knew you" (i.e. had a love relationship with you). This is an incredibly tough statement indeed, as the meaning of Jesus's words are terrifying. He is saying some people will genuinely think they had a love relationship with God, only to get the horrific shock that they NEVER had a relationship with God .... EVER!!! These are without doubt the most "scary words" in the entire bible, and seriously frightens many people including me. Therefore Time for some close examination of my our hearts and souls. Is our relationship with Jesus, the Son of God genuine or not? Personally I know in my heart that Jesus really is God incarnate, and he truly was sent by God the Father. He died on that cross where he took the penalty for sin, for those who would ever believe in him. Therefore he took an "eternal punishment" for every individual soul who has genuine faith in him. The big question we all need to ask is "did he take MY personal punishment, upon himself on the cross". I "know" my faith in Jesus is genuine as I know Jesus is truly God and truly man, but even Satan and his followers know this. Justfication is by FAITH ALONE and I genuinely pray for the forgiveness of my sins. I often wonder what will Jesus say to me on that last day. With all my heart I hope he says "welcome, come into my Kingdom". Because In the end faith in Christ in this world is paramount. Everything else is just noise in comparison. God bless everybody.
This is wrong on so many levels church. Wake up! The question you must answer before answering the question above is "Does God predestine people to hell?" 1) God does NOT predestine people to hell!!! That is not found in the Bible anywhere. In fact, it is crystal clear that God's will is that EVERY man be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4) If it is God's will that every man be saved, predestining some to hell would be double-minded, and the Word is very clear that a house divided will NOT stand (Mark 3:25)(God is still standing today and He will never change) 2) Eternal life (salvation) is ultimately what glorifies God The miracle of a man being saved and becoming a new creation in Christ brings Him glory The only way for a human being to glorify God is to be saved and have God's own Spirit Having the Holy Spirit is the only way you can do the works of Jesus (John 14:12) Living the life that Jesus lived is the definition of bringing God glory 3) If people were predestined to hell, that would mean Jesus didn't die for everyone Fact: Jesus died for ALL (2 Corinthians 5:15)
At 2:55 he dodges the essential question that is at the heart of this issue: "by his permission or design, however you want to want to describe it..." Permission vs design is the essential issue, and they are far, far different things. If God grants permission to sin; he grants permission to not sin. If God designed sin and did not give mankind permission to not sin, then God chose that there would be no righteous people and that all of his creation would "deserve to be in hell;" and that they would not have the ability to choose differently. So that would be on God, not on mankind. That's the core problem for Calvinists.
The Calvinist false doctrine of "predestination" originated from Augustine ("St. Augustine") in his "City of God" heretical writings. John Calvin's name is affixed to it because he heavily emulated Augustine and idolized him. Augustine states, "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He PREDESTINATED TO EVERLASTING LIFE, as the most merciful bestower of grace; while to those whom He HAS PREDESTINATED TO ETERNAL DEATH, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment not only on account of the sins which they add in the indulgence of their own will, but also because of their original sin, even if, as in the case of infants, they add nothing thereto. Now this is my definite view on that question, so that the hidden things of God may keep their secret, without impairing my own faith." - Augustine, City of God, On the Soul and its Origin, Book 4, Chapter 16. John Calvin did not get his version of "predestination/election" from the Bible, but he borrowed it from his idol, Augustine. His version of it is identical to Augustine's perversion of it. 1) ....."salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 2) "We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, ETERNAL LIFE IS FORE-ORDAINED FOR SOME, ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR OTHERS." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 3) ..."we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into SALVATION, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to DESTRUCTION...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7. It appears that Calvin's definition and Augustine's definition of "predestination/election" is identical to Islam's belief in FATALISM and also identical to Stoicism's belief in DETERMINISM. Satan has packaged the same thing under different names - "Predestination/Election", "Foreordination", "Fatalism", and "Determinism."
God can do whatever He desires and wants. That is our position. We can only be humble and listen and obey by and through Him. It is the most difficult subject and anyone who understands this or think he does needs to think again. This is humanlike to think we can but we cant. Just trust in Him. Nothing more we can do. And thats also very difficult to do. For me atleast.
Here's the answer someone (a reprobate) might give on that day . . . I had no choice; I've found out, since dying, that you O God, predestined me to be on my way to hell now and there's nothing I could have done about it... because I now know that you didn't choose to 'cause me' to be born again and repent... I don't understand it God!?... With respect O Lord, I know I deserve to be here, but I didn't ask to be born... I was born broken... Into a broken world where so much goes against the knowledge of You... A world where it is so easy to disbelieve and be governed and guided by immediate sensual gratification... and so hard to believe and choose the good... It's not fair... At all... Throw me in the fire O Lord ! If you were a God that interacted with His creation in a way that all other Christians - bar the Calvinists - claim that you do... This would be fair... But you - through NO DOING OF MY OWN - determined me to do all that I did on earth, for the sole purpose of bringing glory to Yourself now in my "just" condemnation ? If I had a mirror on me now O God, I would point it back at you, and in justice, You surely, in truth, would be the one Who justly consigned Yourself to the flames... Calvinism is proof of just how important it is for us to feel "safe" within the consensus of an interpretive tradition... and the joy that comes through being part of something bigger than ourselves. Any of us can come under dodgy teaching, and John Calvin's novel system (because he was at a pivotal and influential moment in history) unfortunately received cult like reverence among certain reformers and has thus influenced many many thousands afterwards. The real consensus of the mind of the Church on the matters of foreknowledge, predestination and the place of grace and free will in the entirety of salvation was clearly reached and taught amongst the post apostolic and Ante - Nicene Father's. The whole of the ancient church in both the east and the west, and also the majority of Protestants today, utterly reject Augustine's novel view of predestination in the early 5th century, and the "determinism" of Calvin in the 16th. Arguing with a fan of reformed / deformed theology is like arguing with a non Christian cultist (though obvs "Calvinists" are deeply consevative and Christian) ... You can't reason with someone who's brainwashed. They "swallow" the hard pill of "the terrible doctrine" out of reverance for God. They have also received a very warped and lopsided view of Christian history which "seems" to uphold Augustine and Calvin as the heroes and bastions of "true orthodoxy"... (oh the irony) ... a history lesson which is bias and has no actual basis in reality. (the JW's / Arians would have more of a case from history, and their doctrines (though wrong) make more Scriptural, philisophical and logical sense than those of some of the reformers) Divine determinism - to the point that Calvin took it - is irrational and horrific. In love ! Peace to all in Christ X
You don’t seem to understand the Sovereignty of God, nor does it seem that you have any idea of His holiness. You have constructed an argument to your own self-justification. How does this help you?
Simply accept that you don't know the answer. So casting someone into everlasting lake of fire is supposed to prove something that can't be proven otherwise? I am a God fearing Christian but l don't think humans can fully understand hell. What l do know is the fact that if God is serous about his laws then hell needed to exist but l will never understand why it is so gruesome.
Piper is a terrible terrible representation of Christianity, he doesn’t even believe In current works of the Holy Spirit, it’s a shame he’s leading people into a perverted view of God “predestining” people to hell.
Calvin was a piece of work. I don't understand why really intelligent and learned men of God don't know Calvin's history and don't question Calvin's hardline, unloving and even murderous motives in the predestination doctrine that some still follow to this day. Only a man lacking mercy could espouse predestination, as in God destining some to hell just because he's God and he can do what he wants. I do believe in hell as a sad reality, but people who choose to reject God to the bitter end go to hell. Predestination goes against the myriad scriptures and doctrines about free will. "Choose you this day who you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord". I guess Joshua was delusional and just thought he could choose God or not, since Calvin hadn't come along to tell him he couldn't.
Sainte Jeanne d'Arc If you believe that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, there's no other sensible doctrine than that which involve predestination. unless your free-will doctine will ensure to save all of mankind, then it's no more worse than predestination. at least predestination is consistent with an omniscient God. if you really believe you have free will, then God would have to be NOT omniscient. because he already knew some people will become athiests and will never believe til the end before even creating them. yet he STILL creates them anyway knowing all too well that they would use their "free will" to be an athiest to the very end and thus will be condemned to hell for eternity. see? still predestined!
@@neocyte85 I also believe God is loving and merciful. You see that max guy above your comment? He doesn't give a crap for people because he thinks God doesn't give a crap for people, so he can just blurt out that "God creates most people to be evil and for hell". That's your predestination doctrine in a nutshell: I'm God, I can do what I want so I will it that most suffer in the torment of hell, oh and I sent my son to suffer horribly for no good reason, because my will is screw people anyway and screw my son who died at the hands of evil people who I created to be evil. This is the God that atheists scoff at and want nothing to do w/ and I don't blame them. But you keep selling them that version of God, not much different than the devil. There's no hope in that gospel message. If God decides you're screwed, you're just screwed and there's no point in repenting, in doing better, there's just no hope. It's a gospel devoid of hope.
God is not in need of anything outside of himself, but what you are saying is that God needs to send people to hell for him to achieve more glory for himself. You are right in line with the thinking of the founder of the Catholic church Saint Augustin who spent 10 years as a Manichean Gnostic before he came to the church. You flat out ignore many verses that say God is not willing that any should perish and verses that state man has a responsibility to respond to God, you deny that the Gospel under the drawing of the Holy Spirit has the power to save. My father had six kids, he didn't but he should have thrown at least 3 or 4 of us out in the street in order to be like your Jesus. If the good Samaritan happened to be your Jesus walking down the road chances are he would have left the beaten man in the ditch.You need to grow up and start preaching the truth not Gnostic heresies.
Your answer is that the god of the bible sends people to eternal suffering just so that he can show off how powerful he is? Why would a good being do that? And how is it good that you get to experience a more intense feeling of grace at the price of other people experiencing eternal suffering? You're literally describing some dystopian nightmare.
I didn't hear much exegesis apart from Romans 9:22-23 about wrath. Nothing about "whosoever will" or Jesus dying for the sins of the whole world. He mostly just told us what his theology is. That's not exegesis.
Here is some exegesis then πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων in John 3:16 literally means "everyone believing". There is no Greek equivalent for "whosoever" in the arbitrary sense. This is consistent with the John 1:12-13 that reveals to us that those who believe are born from God and not the will of man.
I actually like John Piper, even if I disagree with him. But since you took it upon yourself to present the case for the Reformed view I'll respond to you. The issue is free will, regardless of the wording. Does God predestine some for heaven and others for hell, or do we determine our destiny through our choices as "everyone believing" would indicate? Your reference to John 1:12,13 supports the free will view IMO. "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Those who receive Him are born of God by choice. Babies born into this world have no choice. Their birth was determined by their parents, so the choice was made for them in contrast to the spiritual birth believers in Jesus experience.
Haha yes I have taken upon myself . Before I respond, I really like John Piper too (especially when it comes to the reformed position) but there are a hand full of things that I do not find my self agreeing with him on such continuationism. If you would like to further the discussion, would you like to have it on private message?
we may all have different answers for theological questions. one thing that is agreed upon is this- every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus is lord. period.
ua-cam.com/video/AxTXn_wON1M/v-deo.html
That’s not an answer.
So do you think God enjoys the suffering of people in hell?
Herein lies the problem with the legal orientation of western christianity. Modern day evangelicals see "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" as a threat instead of a promise.
@@Jordan-hz1wr that is true! Thank you for sharing the truth with us.
2:22 "In ellection/pre-destination, God is gracefully choosing SOME sinners to be saved"
Anyone else is troubled by this statement?
No.
Joey Lopez why
That's just how messed up your mind is... of course it is a few.
God chooses those that choose him.
Curses or blessings. Your choice.
🤣
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”-James 1:17
All things! Ephesians 1, Colossians 1:15-20
Hey...B.J. I,d be glad to help ya w/ all that....but it sounds like ya toooooo far gone...but that's not against the law....if you actually read & studied ( 2Tim 2:15) the material I put out there...& ya still don't get the dif ' btw. Free Will...& Robots...i,ll just thank ya for making my....point....try following The Apostle Paul...who commanded us to...." be followers of me as I also follow....Christ..." 1Cor 11:1 NOT Calvin...or any other....man...1Cor 2:1-16(V5) & here,s why....Gal 1:1-12(V6,9,)
There will be no one in Heaven that deserves it either.
My thoughts exactly. Calvinism provides no real answers to their contadictive theology.
@@samjohnson9904 Reformed theology is proven by scripture,it is not a man made philosophy.I used to be mostly Arminian in my theology until I had both of my shoulders replaced and God gave me plenty of of time to pray and study and that's when He showed me the error of my belief.You really need to study it,Sam.
@@CBALLEN I really have studied it. I've found that it is a theology based on text without context.
@@samjohnson9904 Can you explain 1 Cor 2:14?
@@CBALLEN, in context, Paul is writing to Christians from the house of Chloe (the most carnal church in the NT) in regards to the advanced aspects of their spirituality. It's re-stated in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 and mirrored in Hebrews 5:10-14. The passage is about natural and spiritual as opposed to lost and saved as the Calvinist theology teaches. Simply, Paul is telling these Christians that they are not ready for the advanced teachings because they are not spiritually mature enough to grasp them.
The way he talks about it makes it seem like he thinks he's better than those in Hell even though he deserves it. And you can't get around the fact that if God chose some to go to Heaven then he chose others for Hell
God can do whatever he chooses. Who are you to question God? Because you can't understand his ways makes him wrong?
As John Stott and Charles Spurgeon recognized: the Bible teaches both free will and predestination. It's a Biblical paradox and they said they will teach both. I humbly agree.
And John Stott also realised that the Bible teaches death/ destruction and perishing, not burning forever in a place we call hell, that the Bible never once refers to in Hebrew or Greek. check out this video ua-cam.com/video/FoNbPN_bSRs/v-deo.html
@@michaelnewzealand1888 Amen to that. Just as stated in John 3:16, we either perish or else we receive the gift of eternal life:
⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
We either come to repentance, or else we perish:
⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
⚫ "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Jesus, in Luke 13:5)
Examples of the wicked being destroyed, not "be"ing any more:
⚫ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10).
⚫ "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7).
⚫ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29).
⚫ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25).
⚫ "Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7).
⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . .
⚫ "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3)
ua-cam.com/video/6yC3c8KqxPU/v-deo.html
@@TheBibleSays Hell is eternal.. unbelievers don't just cease away from existence. The Bible is every clear on that.
""Then He will say to those on His left, 'Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);" - Mat 25:41
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire." - Rev 20:15
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence)." - Dan 12:2
"If your hand causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It is better for you to enter life crippled, than to have two hands and go into hell, into the unquenchable fire," - Mark 9:43
"save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom." - Jud 1:23
"And the beast (Antichrist) was seized and overpowered, and with him the false prophet who, in his presence, had performed [amazing] signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were hurled alive into the lake of fire which blazes with brimstone." - Rev 19:20
@@michaelnewzealand1888 I'm sorry but annihilationism is unbiblical
@@joedyms What happens to the unsaved? The apostle Paul wrote:
⚫ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life though Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)
There is nothing in that verse about eternal life in some sort of fiery "hell." Unless you receive the gift of eternal life you will perish in what is called the "second death," after resurrection for judgment. After that second death, there is no more hope of life or resurrection. You perish. You're destroyed. You don't exist any more. It's the end of you. Here's a few Bible verses about this:
⚫ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10).
⚫ "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7).
⚫ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29).
⚫ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25).
⚫ "Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7).
⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . .
⚫ "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3)
John 3:16 says the same: we either receive the gift of eternal life, or we perish:
⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
So where does the fiery eternal "hell" idea come from? King James' translators added it to the Bible by using their word "hell" 23 times in the New Testament . . . in place of three different Greek words. Each of those three words has a different meaning . . . and none of those three refers to a place of fiery, perpetual torment. The three Greek words are:
▬ άδης
(“hades” in English); appears as "hell" ten times
and as "grave" once in the KJV New Testament;
refers to the place of the dead, the grave, similar to
the Hebrew word "she'ol" in the Old Testament
▬ γέεννα
(“geenna” or “gehenna” in English); Appears as "hell"
12 times in the KJV New Testament; refers to the valley
used as a dump outside Jerusalem in Jesus' time.
Constant fire and maggots there permanently destroyed
whatever was thrown in.
▬ ταρταρωσας
a verb, an inflection or variant of ταρταρόω;
(“tartaroo" in English); used only once: to describe
fallen angels being put into a figurative pit or prison,
to be held in restraint.
You don't have to take my word for this. Look it up with online Bible study tools such as blueletterbible.org.
Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word "hell" in place of these three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, from the Catholic church. By using "hell" they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words to conform to their concept of a place of perpetual, fiery torment.
Over time translators have recognized this error and footnoted their versions, noting the original Greek words, or even using the original Greek words - and not using the word "hell." Young's Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses the word "hell."
Here's an example of Jesus speaking of "hell fire":
⚫ "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:" (Mark 9:47)
"Hell" in that verse is from that Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna," a reference to that dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage was thrown there to be destroyed by the constant fire - "hell fire" - and worms - maggots - in the dump. *Jesus likened the destruction of the wicked to being cast into the dump for permanent, final destruction. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump for destruction.*
The "lake of fire" in Revelation pictures the same, final destruction:
⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Here's another verse where "hell" is from the Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna":
⚫ "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)
So, when Jesus said the soul can be destroyed in hell, what did He mean? First, "destroy" is from the Greek word ἀπόλλυμι ("apollymi") which means "to destroy fully" (from _Strong's Defintions_ ). And "hell" in that verse is from the Greek word γέεννα ("geenna" or "gehenna") which was the dump outside Jerusalem, where fire and maggots destroyed all the trash and bodies that were thrown in. *Jesus likened the fate of the unsaved* to being "thrown into the dump," into "hell [gehenna] fire" for destruction.
In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved:
⚫ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
When a criminal is executed, the punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing. No, the punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it is permanent, complete and final and irrevocable. It will be the same for the unsaved; they will destroyed and that will be the end of them. Their punishment is finished and stands forever; it is not perpetual, ongoing punishing.
The words "permanent" and "final" never appear in the KJV; "everlasting" is often used instead. It's a mistake to assume "everlasting" means an ongoing, perpetual process. It can refer to a permanent, finished and irreversible condition.
The "lake of fire" in Revelation is like the gehenna "dump" fire. It pictures final, irrevocable destruction. Those persons who are "cast into the lake of fire" are destroyed. They are destroyed, through death; specifically the second death, after judgment. They have no further hope of life or resurrection. They will never "be" again:
⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
Even death and the grave (hades) will be destroyed by being figuratively "cast in the lake of fire":
⚫ "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14,15)
After the final judgment and the destruction of the wicked, death is effectively destroyed-because everyone left will have received eternal life. And the grave (hades) is destroyed, because no one will be left in the grave awaiting resurrection for judgment. Paul wrote:
⚫ "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26)
Death will be destroyed . . . after the wicked have been destroyed through death and the rest have received eternal life.
The Glory is given to God as he gave each of us the freedom to choose heaven or hell... faith in God or denial .... all praise be to God our heavenly father.
Well that isn’t what John Piper believes from what I can see, I may be wrong, but he doesn’t believe in free will which is what you need to make a free decision. You must believe in both free will and predestination to correctly understand the bible, it teaches both as if they are somehow in unison.
Salvation is through Christ, not the election lottery.
Christ died to pay for the sins of the elect
@@TheFinalJigsaw For God so loved the elect, and only the elect, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever was predestined to believe in him should not perish. Meanwhile, everyone else was created for the sole purpose of occupying Hell.
Yeah, that’s quite a gospel message. That’s why Calvinists hide their true beliefs when evangelizing. There is no Gospel under Calvinism. If you’re elect, you were never in danger of going to Hell. If you’re not of the elect, then there is no good news, and you never had a Savior.
@@Pondimus_Maximus ya pretty much
@@TheFinalJigsawjust shut up man
God’s call goes out to all, yet He foreknew who would answer, and thus predestined the elect. Free will and God’s sovereignty are both biblical truths, though the harmonization of the two is not possible with our limited human understanding, similar to the trinity. God is beyond us and beyond our comprehension. He wills no evil and desires all to be saved, yet also wove the fabric of time. Christians aren’t called to comprehend everything about God, but to embrace the truths He HAS allowed us to understand through His word.
One must take all of the Bible into account when answering this question. From what I have thus learned, first consider that we were given free will. God knows the outcome of all of our lives. Remember, God was sorry that He made us due to our bent toward sinning and evil. We have to look at our lives as having multiple endings. God knows the outcome of each, but it's up to us to choose the right path and trust in Jesus, thereby giving us eternal life.
Free will. Willingly choosing God. Looking at the bible as a book end. In the beginning the heavens and earth were created, the end they are restored to how it started.
The biblical doctrine teaches both predestination and humanity as totally free actors with full responsibility over our actions, and it also shows God's intervention in other people's lives to force a turn of events in order to fulfill prophecy.
Yea, it's a mess. Yes, it's a paradox. There's no way around it. Many people cannot believe, even less worship God because of these unanswered topics. Yet, God doesn't move a finger to give us the answer. It's like this is a play that has to end before we get the answer, and when the play is over and we can achieve the knowledge of the questions we have pondered over for so long, God says it will be too late.
Every time I hear someone say that the bible is so clear and consistent in its message I roll my eyes.
The Bible teaches free will and predestination, this is true, however, it does not teach predestination to salvation or damnation. It teaches predestination for those "in him" to be conformed to the image of his son.
my sister has the power to literally control people's mind and god is not answering my prayers to stop it. i fucking wonder why.
"No one will be in hell who doesnt deserve to be there." How could I deserve anything if it my actions, thoughts, and words were pre-determined by God's choice? If I deserve something, I must have done something to gain the status of me deserving that thing, but if I dont have a choice, how do I deserve anything? Did God predestine me to deserve hell? If so, then I dont know if that's a God worthy of my worship.
My friend this man is a confused old man.
Love God with all your might, trust that he loves you and will continue to work on you as long as you surrender to him.
Admit you are a sinner whose sins need to be washed away.
Know that all deserve hell because all have sinned, however god has called the whole world to know him and repent, yet many do not becuase they love there sin and are wilfully ignorant.
Anyone can be born again as god draws every man to repentance,so repent and live pleasing to god and enjoy a relationship with him and you will be with him for all eternity.
I cant mention everything as it would be too long but that's the jist
God is simply an evil being who wants all to burn in hell forever and ever. Its possible that "heaven" and salvation are just a trick. Theres 0 evidence god isnt evil.
Your actions are a result of the free will God gave you. A lot of people choose to deny that free will exists because, if it doesn’t, then that means all of our actions are seen from a puppet master viewpoint. This way, we can claim no responsibility over our actions as they were “predestined” and we have absolutely no control over them.
This is false.
I’m choosing out of my free will to type this message to you to help you understand why free will is a very real thing. You choose to sit up in your bed in the morning and make breakfast. You choose that you want eggs, and then you use your free will to say “nevermind I don’t want eggs, I want bacon”. You exercise your free will every second of your life.
Many like to deny that free will exists because denying it then gives them an excuse to accuse God of being evil. How could God say he loves us, then make it so that we have 0 control over our actions, both right and wrong, and then damn us to eternal suffering because of actions we don’t have control over to begin with?
Free will is very real my friend. Many people want to understand how free will, Gods sovereignty and predestination all work hand in hand. Their mistake is when they refuse to accept that they won’t understand it 100%. It’s unfathomable to our human minds to understand entirely.
@@hezikiawilliams392 The problem with your point of you is God's omniscience, specially with the first human sin. God knew beforehead everything Adam was going to do even before he created him. All humanity is cursed because of that first sin. I'm a Belieber myself but I can't deny this is hard to understand.. and your argument doesn't give a answer to it.
Same here…
“No one in hell will be there without deserving to be there” doesn’t seem logical when they are there by predestination. And plus all have sinned and fallen short of glory, so of course everyone that’s there deserves hell. John states that as if you got to heaven if you deserve to be there and you go to hell if you don’t. I would rather say everyone in heaven is there because they don’t deserve to be there, Jesus Christ died for their sins, his grace brings salvation “for all those who believe” there would be no reason for Christ sacrifice if you were predestined to “deserve” heaven.
With all due respect to Pastor John for his faithful ministry....this teaching is diabolical and diametrically opposed to the concept of a loving God. How can a loving God predestine people to hell? How can He give His beloved creation no opportunity to be saved for no other reason than that He 'overlooks' them? The thought is horrifying and not in any way a reflection of His unlimited love for His creation.
‘The Lord is…..patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance.’ 2 Peter 3:9
'The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands ALL people everywhere to repent' Acts 17:30
He would even leave the 99 safely in the fold to seek out the lost. Thank God.
@AVB2 The differences here are:
1. God, by His determined purpose and foreknowledge allowed His sinless son Jesus to take the punishment in our place by dying on the cross, but he was not punished permanently. He rose again and lives forever.
2. Jesus had a choice to not go through with it but chose to do so.
3. Calvinism asserts that sinners who are ‘passed over’ by God (in other words not loved by God) are permanently severely punished without any choice in the matter.
This doctrine does not reflect the love of God and turns the unbeliever away. Sad.
@AVB2 I agree, Jesus never disobeyed His Father....because He chose not to.
Maybe you overlooked that Jesus 'was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.' Hebrews 4:15 Thus he was tempted to sin, but chose not to.
For example, He was tempted by the devil in the wilderness, but chose not to yield to temptation. Matthew 4:1-11
He was also tempted to refuse to go to the cross, but chose to go.
'....and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.'
Matthew 26:39
Jesus faced choices to obey or disobey His Father and so do we, especially whether to be saved or not.
May God bless you brother.😀
Notice how people who reject the things Piper discusses here have zero verses in the bible to back up their argument, you reject the word of God. Some even reveal that they actually hate the real Jesus and have created some kind of idol named jesus that makes more sense to their unregenerate human logic. "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways" Isaiah 55:8. Your ideas of what God should and shouldn't do mean absolutely nothing.
My thoughts exactly
Well I guess you need to hope your right..
Are you one of the elect?
How do you know? I mean how do you really know, in an assurance sense?
How do you identify others who aren't?
How do you truly know your not one of those 'others' who aren't.. and thar your deceived and on route for he'll?
1 Tim 2:4 God's will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge and truth.
Then whats the point of christ death and resurrection?? God can simply forgive
Jerome Savary nope god is a just judge and there has to be atonement for sin .
@@broj5495 Nah....Noah and his fam were 'saved' and the rest of the world 'perished' without any atonement for sin.
If the Arc is a type for Christ...how come there was no human sacrifice then as an atonement?
Ifso facto....Noah and fam were saved without atonement.
@@vickicaravella6087 They used animals as an attoment for sin before jesus.
@@broj5495
Hi matie...thanks 4 your reply saying:
"They used animals as an atonement for sin before Jesus:
Quoting from the OT:
"For I desire a steadfast love, and NOT sacrifice. The knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings (Hosea 6:6)
Many places in Rabbinic literature emphasise that performing charitable deeds, praying, and studying Torah are more meritorious than animal sacrifice.
AND that the former can replace animal sacrifice when the Temple is not active.
Jews have always believed in ritual atonement through deeds of loving kindness.
Thanks for being civil Broj.
Say...do you ring Matt Dillahunty on the Atheist Experience as Brojo?
Calvinism is utter nonsense. Thanks God we have the freedom to choose. Choose life that you may live.
We don't though lol if you're saved it's because the Holy Spirit did a work in you.
God is sovereign so Calvinism is not nonsense.
@@tomw6271 Of course God is sovereign. Nobody denies that. But he also gave us free will so he can see if we choose good or evil. It's God who initiates salvation and it's him who draws us, but we have to do our part. Calvinism lacks balance because it teaches that we have no say in our salvation, which is refuted by many Bible verses. God's sovereignty doesn't mean his actions are arbitrary.
I hear alot of talk but he did not answer how people in hell is glorifying God
The answer begins at 3:34
God is *MOST GLORIFIED* by displaying His full range of perfection, including displaying His *Wrath* attribute for His *Elect* audience, to show them just how much *luck,* I mean *grace* they were given for not being predestined to be burned forever, like the other billions that were. God could've predestined them as well, but He didn't, *THAT* action of God makes His grace shine more brightly, in the eyes of Calvinist theologians.
@@primeobjective5469 Most Calvinists say that man is unable to choose to serve God, which is why God predestined some to choose him and some to be sent to hell...essentially. I partially agree; on our own, we're not capable but with God, all things are possible. He gave us all the ability to choose Him, and as we know, all don't choose him. This is what makes worship possible. It's interesting that God's sovreignty is spoken about so much but we don't give God credit for His creation. He gave us the ability to choose or reject Him.
Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
JWJ BROS the Bible mentions in the grave that no one that goes their is honoring the father, neither good or bad because they are unconscious beings at that point until Christ resurrects them and I believe that not the he’ll doctrine
God is Glorified when he is destroying evil and Being praised by his followers for having mercy on their souls.
The traditional view of hell can't answer the question. God is glorified when death and sin are no more (1 Corinthians 15 and Revelation 21).
It doesn't glorify God, because He doesn't predestine people for hell. Sick twisting of the scripture. God wants ALL(ALL) to come to repentance. If you think this, do a quick bible study with a knowledgeable person and watch a debate.
Rom 11:33-34 O how deep are God’s riches, and wisdom, and knowledge! How unfathomable are his decisions and unexplainable are his ways! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become his adviser?
Wow how deep, rich and wise he is to predestine many of his kids to Hell without mutual agreement. Doesnt that sound like premeditated murder?
Romans 11:32 ;)
The thing is this:
God doesn't owe you anything, he can do whatever he wants with you just like he can with me. He can also predestine you to hell just as he can predestine you to salvation.
Why should God adapt to your "humanism"?
Paul already said :
Listen carefully !
Romans 9:11-25: "11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of 'Elohim according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Ya`akov have I loved, but Esav have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with 'Elohim? 'Elohim forbid. 15 For he saith to Mosheh, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of 'Elohim that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Havahn for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against 'Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if 'Elohim, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Havahn us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the goyim? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved."
Couldn't it be said more clearly?
Does not God have the power to show mercy when he wants to ?
And again, is it true that everyone is lost because of his own fault?
Although it is God who directs!
Proverbs 16:4: "4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Proverbs 16:9: "9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps."
IMPORTANT: without himself being the author of evil.
Especially if everyone were in hell, it would be deserved because after all, we are saved by grace ? Or are we ?
So even if only one stepped it would still be heartfelt on his part!
Of course, because the signs of God's sovereignty and human will in the Holy Scriptures, i.e. in the Bible, will always remain a mystery.
Reply to the video :
People need to distinguish between preDETERMINATION and preDESTINATION.
No one's fate has been pre-determined; we all face judgment. Judgment would be a farce if our fates were predetermined ahead of time.
God's will, His intention, is that all would be saved. The what He has pre-destined - intends - for all. Unfortunately many will choose their own path - the wide way that leads to destruction" instead. Here's the destiny God wants - intends - for ALL:
⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, *not willing that any should perish,* but that *all* should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
⚫ "Who will have *all* men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)
⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that *whosoever* believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
I’m so glad I’m no longer a Calvinist.
God hasn't changed, even if you've changed.
@@chrismusix5669 but it is nice to be closer to God than to be a boastful arrogant pharisee.
Calvinism is total garbage
That’s true, saying ur no longer a Calvinist really is saying I just no longer believe or agree with the Word of God. Well I’d say then with that t hey went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us
Me too I can except there is some mystery to things without reaorting to Calvin's 5 points which paint a bleak picture but also have massive theological holes in. I except we can't understand everything
Under Calvinist belief, God decrees everything - God decrees sinners exist and be in a state of Rebellion. John Piper says no one in hell will have an excuse. Well doesn't it seem like a pretty good excuse that God decreed them to be that way?
I have never seen a Calvinist answer this except to say this is somehow justice so God can show His wrath forever. Is this Good that God should purpose the universe such that endless torment&torture would exist? And this is glorious? Glory for God because He decrees sinners be eternally tortured for doing exactly as He decreed? NO
Predestinate (prohoridzo) does not have anything to do with any going to hell. Only the elect are Predestined. Those that are passed by are Ordained to hell. Get the nomenclature right.
Rick Rairdon Tapdance on
For God so loved the world ,he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Accept it or reject it .your choice.
What in the elect are you talking about?
How does it glorify God to predestine people to hell?
Short answer: it doesn’t.
By the counsel of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are chosen or predestined7 through Jesus Christ to eternal life, to the praise of his marvelous grace.8 Others are left to a life of sin, to their just condemnation, to the praise of his wonderful righteousness.9
7 1 Tim 5:21; Mt 25:41.
8 Eph 1:5-6.
9 Rom 9:22-23; Jude 4.
I'm reading these comments and I find it bitter as fuck that the people who sound the most inhumane are speaking for a creator that's supposed to love all. Very rarely does ANYONE deserve to go to hell, if hell is being accurately described and the people saying "they deserve it" sound demented.
Sorry, IvyViper, but you are using reasoning based on a humanistic standpoint to determine what is morally right for a holy God. That simply never works because these standpoints originate from completely diametrically opposed starting points. I used to attempt to quantify questions such as yours based on a personal/social "moralistic" codex based on my opinions of what I thought were right and wrong. The inherent problem with such thinking is that God is not a man and does not think as fallen, sinful man does--He is holy, just, and faithful.
EVERYBODY deserves Hell for sinning against God (Romans 3:23). However, NOBODY has to (John 3:16-18)! Jesus Christ's blood pays for our sins (Romans 6:23) if we leave our life of sin and rebellion and start a new life (become reborn - John 3:3) with Him. That's why Christians celebrate Resurrection Day, aka Easter. Hallelujah!
@@michaelg7904 well said!
One thing I don’t believe in, regarding Calvinism, is predestination. I don’t believe it is biblical. Our Lord Jesus Christ desires that NONE should perish and that ALL should come to repentance.
Predestination is mentioned multiple times in the Bible...Romans 9, Ephesians 1, etc. Blessings as you work through this deep subject Josh.
God does not predestine anyone to hell. It is His will that all people would go to heaven but He created us with a free will so we can choose where we spend eternity.
“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezekiel 18:21-24 NIV
Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Lamentations 3:31-33...
The answer straight from the Master, Lord of Lords, King of Kings!
Well...thank God he decided to save you John Piper. To heck with those he didn't decide to save, right? How "glorious" indeed.
jumjum151
Amen.
It’s all Amazing to me! His salvation what a gift!!! I’m grateful and thankful
God bless you
@@jumjum151 God deserves help since he is the creator of Evil
@@DV77737 You are just lucky bastard
@@Android-ds9ie very lucky
Do you want to be saved?
Piper never really answers the question. So, God gets glory by rescuing people from the dark backdrop of sin and judgement, but what about PREDESTINATION? If he predestined people to hell, he's still the bad guy to those who are "incapable" of choosing him, which ought to make us question his goodness. That doesn't make him a God who "loved the world," but a cruel dictator who randomly selects who gets a slice of the goods or not. Sounds more like the Muslim image of God...
The other question that comes to mind listening to Piper is, "If we are predestined and saved from said backdrop of sin and judgement, is God the author of sin?" Truly, if we have no choice in the matter and God destined people to damnation then he would also have to be the author of evil because he "elected" before the foundation of the world. Sooo, he made people to be damned for his glory therefore making him the author of sin and evil?
Romans 1-3 makes it clear that mankind rejects what is made known by God to them. Don't let Calvinists use Romans 9-11 as their proof text for election. Romans 9-11 is talking about Israel, not individuals chosen for salvation or damnation. Piper is teaching lies, as does John MacArthur and all of their ilk. The hate the true gospel that is for all men because it robs them of their own glory.
*****
Wow, bro. It's a pretty hard statement, but I think you hit the nail on the head with Calvinists, at least the extreme ones who believe in literal double predestination (it's my understanding that some believe God elected some but simply "passed over" the others rather than actually literally predestining them to death). Far as I'm concerned, with guys like Robert Morey, John MacAurthur and so many others, they are hindering people from hearing the Gospel rather than spreading it forth to a needful world. It's almost like they're saying, "hah hah, I'm special, and you're not." (Although I admit there are a few who seem to at least be humble enough to say they think they deserve death, too; they were just blessed to be chosen.) And if you object, they just say "who are you to question God?" (Although we question their view of God, not God Himself, of course.) And only so because, hey, as long as they're one of the elect, they're safe, right? Not like they need to worry about anyone else. Calvinism just feels like an obvious form of pride to me. And if we believers who believe in free will to choose the Gospel (or believe in God's sovereignty according to Universalism) are heretics like I've heard some - not all - Calvinists accuse, well, hey, what can we do it about it, right? According to their view of the Gospel, God WANTED us to believe in something heretical so we'd never come to Him, because apparently making us stay in sin and unbelief glorifies Him. The Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Calvinism: Good News for a precious few, REALLY REALLY bad news for everyone else.
Agreed, the question isn't answered. It's frustrating as the answers to this question get danced around like it did. I get putting borders around a question heavy like this, but the question wasn't addressed.
Because he didn't predestine people to hell.
@@savedbyjesusblood
So calvinists are like catholics?
God created us and wants everyone to be saved . He gives plenty of opportunities to get get saved thru His son Jesus. They beat Jesus , spit on Him and died a horrible death , a sacrifice for our sins. God gives us free will to choose.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. John Ch. 3 v 16.
Whosoever means whosoever. There is absolutely no where to indicate that God has predestined anyone to Hell.
Amen, you are absolutely 100% Biblically correct! WHOSOEVER WILL, means exactly what it says. Who are the elect? Whosoever will!
Even in the story of Cain & Abel, God told Cain that if he CHOSE to do what is right, he would be accepted. And in the story of Esau & Jacob, Esau had the birth right until he CHOSE to barter it away to Jacob for a bowl of soup. In both cases, Cain & Esau had free will to choose. And they CHOSE to disobey & disregard God. Maybe they were genetically predisposed to SIN more than Abel & Jacob. Maybe God blessed their DNA to be predisposed for RIGHTEOUSNESS. Just as Joseph was. And so he was hated by his brothers. His robe was a metaphor for DNA. Both are woven. Bc who actually wants to murder their brother for a garment or even shoes. And maybe God blesses their DNA from the start bc He knows they will ultimately walk with Him? Bc God knows the beginning from the ending. In Joseph's case, his brothers were also blessed but Joseph was especially blessed & favored by God. When God blesses somebody, He blesses their DNA
@@wakeywakey8603 God’s sovereignty and Man’s responsibility are two different sides of the same coin.
The issue with choice is- who is sovereign, man or God? It’s hard to see Esau had a full choice in light of Romans 9:11-21
“for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?”
Just worth looking at Ephesians 1:4-5
“just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,” - we see that God’s choice matters more than man’s choice.
True...whoever believes goes to heaven....God made every human with free will. He knows who will choose Him. ..just like He knew Eve would eat the apple..and Lucifer would fall. God knew all of this. Its His design for His purpose which is ultimately good. We dont need to understand it but pray for His mercy.
@@alexdshepherd God's sovereignty has zero to do with man's responsibility or free will. My choice to repent or not does NOT take away from God's omniscience or omnipotence
You know, My biggest pet peeve is, when in discussion, people get so arrogant and pretend like they talk like a person in a book would - you just end up sounding pretentious. One example is "One must..." or when you say, "My friend".
But aside from that, Calvinism or Arminianism - it literally doesn't matter because at the end of the day, the Bible tells us to repent, follow God, loving Him with everything we have and are, and to go out and make disciples. Regardless, we have a job we have to do, that's why Calvinism and Arminianism are hardly salvational issues. Even though they tie directly to salvation, you don't have to believe in one or the other to be saved. At the end of the day, you are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus, and you are to continue seeking Him and you are to go out and make disciples.
You cannot escape the sovereignty of God or the words such as "predestination" or "election". Does God elect some and not others to surely be saved? Yes He does - that is completely scriptural. Are all who are saved a part of the elect? Maybe not, who knows. Does God specifically predestine people go to hell? I personally don't think so, although He, in His sovereignty knows who will accept Him and won't accept Him, but God "Desires that all men be saved" (1 Timothy 2:3,4).
The BIG QUESTION:
IF, and I say IF, God predestines people to go to Hell, does that make Him evil? Or, if He is sovereign and knows who will go to Hell, but in the end He doesn't save them, is He evil for not saving them? (Hell, eternal damnation, eternal death, whatever you believe - let's just stick with "not saved")
*NO*. God is GOOD. To say that He is EVIL for saving some and not others is saying, "I don't believe sin is really that bad". Keep in mind, God is the only One who is good - we are evil and wicked no matter how good we appear unless we are in Christ. If someone dies, and you believed them to be a good person, but they were not sealed in Christ, they were not a good person - they were wicked and evil because their sins were not forgiven. Should you still mourn and be heart broken over their death? Paul certainly was over those who were not saved but died (can't remember where, if you know, let me know! :D). Now, this is hard to be consistent with. If I have a physical, blood sister who dies not knowing Christ, my heart will be broken and I too would want to not go on in life - but it's justice, whether I like it or not. If you say that "It isn't fair for some to be chosen to go to heaven and some go to Hell (or eternal death)" then you have a skewed perspective of sin and how bad it really is because what "isn't fair" is that God is giving you a pass from death and forgiving you having come down as the Son and died for you, taking your place - THAT is NOT fair.
Calvinist, or Arminian, it does not matter. We know what constitutes salvation and we know what we are to do on this earth - love God with all your heart, seek Him unto the end, and make disciples.
If you choose to say, "Oh I'd never evangelize cause they will get saved no matter what" then you are horribly deceived and, whether you are right or wrong, you are disobeying God. Or if you choose to say, "Once saved, always saved, grace abounds so I'll keep on sinning and have the best of both worlds!" I would urge you to reexamine if you truly have salvation.
It is good to pick a side and learn whether or not you would agree with eternal security or falling away, but once it starts affecting your relationship with Christ negatively or your obedience to Him - it has become a problem and a terrible, terrible distraction having now become a tool of the Enemy to fool you.
Be wise and continue in the faith!
Blessings from ya boiiiii
Aaron.
Jesus said: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them". So: am I wooed gently by the grace of a loving God, that brings me to a place where I can freely choose? Or am I prevailed upon overwhelmingly by the power of a sovereign God, that makes my decision inevitable? I doubt that the age-old debate between those who adopt the theology of unconditional election, and those who hold Arminius’ ‘free will’ worldview, will ever be settled, at least not before we meet God face to face. Perhaps both views can somehow be reconciled, in a way that we can’t yet understand?
In centering their theology around a strictly literal view of scriptures like Romans 9:18-20, Calvinists come to view the glory of God as being exemplified in the exercise of His sovereign power. While Arminians, in taking a more liberal view, and basing their theology on scriptures like Joshua 24:15 and Philippians 2:5-8, come to view the glory of God as being exemplified in His love and condescension. So, is God all-powerful or all-loving? My understanding of the scriptures tells me that He is both.
I would like to make three points:
1. It’s imperative that we always remain open-minded to revelation of the Holy Spirit, and are willing to continuously overhaul our own theological stance, to whatever extent an infinitely wise God would have us do so. As soon as we become uncompromisingly set in our views, we are no longer able to be taught.
2. Ultimately our trust must be grounded in God Himself - and His ability to judge both justly and mercifully - and not in our own doctrinal interpretations, which are in some way compromised by our sinfulness. Salvation lies in the person of He who said "I am the way, the truth and the life", not in any specific doctrine. ("You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")
3. Neither the Calvinist nor Arminian views undermine the glorious truth of Romans 10:13 “everybody who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”. I take it as read that “everybody who” literally means “everybody who”. So if I may restate this: if you call on the name of the Lord, you are saved, regardless of whatever combination of events - and to what extent they were ordained by God, or were freely chosen by you - brought you to that point. And you may rest assured that your decision to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior glorifies God, irrespective of whatever theological views you might hold.
Or is he saying, it is not possible without God? No one gets hired as an employee unless the employer draws applicants with "help wanted" adds. Does that mean you don't get to have an interview? It is still ALL GOD.
I believe they are both understandable P O V's. I have concluded that reformed rejects freewill because we just can't fully understand it. No one can, no matter their theology. I have come to see it like this. Calvinist perspective will be correct AFTER the close of probation or when eternity begins. Freewill is right now. Calvinism will have it more correct in eternity. Either way, freewill is plainly inferred in scripture, yet is a mystery whether we accept it or not. I would just fear that by accepting Calvinism, and I was wrong, I would be guilty of assuming my will for God's, therefore imagining myself as God, in a sense. This notion can work the other way as well. One is hopefully being zealous for God's will no matter the theological perspective.
jamie Russell Jamie, many thanks for your reply. If pressed, I would lean toward a theology that involves libertarian free will, as I see this as a necessary characteristic of perfect love; but I happily admit that it’s shaped by my own philosophical intuitions as much as a literal view of scripture. I agree that concepts like ‘love’ and ‘free will’ have abstract and existential aspects that elude a purely intellectual exegesis of the written word. Ultimately, I believe that all answers are embodied in the nature and character of God, as reflected in the person of Jesus (“anyone who has seen me has seen the Father”). Meanwhile, I see through a glass darkly, and I believe that the best I can do is approach God with the disposition and expectations of a little child (“Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” Mark 10:15).
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself John 12:32.
@@SamTipton Yes,He will draw not only JEWS,but Gentiles too,but this doesn't mean every individual Jew and Gentile.Jesus died for many of ALL MEN.Rev 5; 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Jesus died for and actually redeemed US(God's elect) to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED,TONGUE,PEOPLE,and NATION.Jesus didn't die for everyone in every nation.Jesus knew exactly who He was dying to forgive,He knew each name and He actually purchased these individuals with His blood,their salvation was finished at the cross and 100% of the people Jesus died for will be with Him in Heaven,none will be lost to Hell.This is why salvation is 100% the Lord's doing and 0% man's.No one seeks God,none are good,no not even one and it's for this reason that God must give us a new heart first and God then grants repentance and belief.These are things no natural man cares about or wants.So man's free will can do nothing but send him to Hell,never Heaven.
@@CBALLEN
I agree with your interpretation of "all men"
But i have to respond to the other thing.
God calls us to be Holy as he is Holy. We can abstain from sin, it is our duty as soliders of Christ to struggle against sin in the spiritual battle of this life. We're to put on the whole armor of God and stand. We're to die to the sin. Christians are told to mortify the deads of the flesh. Put to death our members on the earth, think on eternal things. The spirit aids greatly, but it does not force us into obedience. Sin is deceitful and Satan knows how to trick men.
Don't believe the lie that we can't help it. We are to be transformed, we are to aid to our faith virtue and to virtue knowledge and to knowledge self control, etc.
That psalm is clearly hyperbole and before the cross.
God will's for us is sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We cannot be sinless (1 John 1:8). God gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). God became sin that we might become the righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). Christ has made it possible for man to be perfect and righteous. Those who walk according to the spirit are sons of God. Romans 8:13-14 I think. Romans 12:2 -- This is a command. We play a role in it otherwise its not a sacrifice or a spiritual service. WE must struggle against sin (Hebrews 12:4)
Read Christ's message to the church at Sardis in Revelation 3. He says their works aren't perfect yet and they should hold fast and repent. That seems to contradict your statement about 0% man.
We must believe, confess, repent, be baptized, and hold fast. We must turn to God and he will turn to us.
Your teaching has the smell of some weak preaching, a by product of people with itching ears.
To this day he is still saying “tony ranky thanks for listening. Tony ranky thanks for listening. Tony ranky .....
🤣🤣🤣
Did god know people would go too hell when he created us yet created it anyway it sounds like a trap too me ee have no choice period
2 Peter 3:9
‘The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.’
If you look at the very first of I and II Peter; it says that they are both addressed to God's Elect. So when 2 Peter 3:8-9 says that God is not willing that ALL should come to repentance.... it means ALL the ELECT.....not ALL of mankind. And ALL the Elect will get saved because Jesus saves ALL the sheep; not one more and not one less.
Amen bro... Whosoever! ... Imagine a loving God who just puts people in hell... How could anybody believe this
@@martinleon3145 But John 3:1-15 tells you what it takes for somebody to become a WHOSEVER! It takes God regenerating them through the Holy Spirit....God only regenerates the ELECT.....thats why Jesus told His disciples "You did not choose Me but I chose You!" Salvation worked in the OT the same way. God chose Israel out of all the nations on earth (Amos 3:2). God did not choose the Egyptians, the Babylonians, or the Assyrians. God chose only Israel! God does not choose to save everyone. That is not Biblical at all. God only saves ALL the Elect Sheep; not one more and not one less. Jesus says "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me; and I will raise them up on the last day!"
@@timclark2925 that would make God unjust. The true God is not that kind of God. To choose some souls for eternal life and throw all the others in eternal hell. That is unfair and unjust. To make people suffer eternally so he can manifest his power and give himself glory, that's tyrannical, narcissistic and unjust. Just who do you think God is?
@@dave7825 Your response is IDENTICAL to the one Paul writes in the Bible.....Just read Romans 9:14-21 "14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"
"God loves you... But He might have predestined you to eternal torment or allowed you to damn yourself to hell."
Seems legit...
I'm a Christian, I'm not buying it either. We have free will or we don't. I respect some Calvanist preachers who love the word, but predestination is error, and it turns unbelievers off for good reason.
@Backcountry Bobcat God chose people for good reason. One reason was they were willing, though most often reluctant. Another reason, stated often enough, is to give God the glory because they were most often pretty unsuited. Think Moses being slow of speech and not eloquent, so God provided Aaron as a helper. Most every disciple was very willing, but a total ragtag team of fishermen, tax collectors etc. Only Paul and Luke were men of letters.
Again, if there is no partiality w/ God, why would he randomly pick some for destruction, some for election? There's no love or free will in that. It's makes God and autistic player, treating us like a boy who pulls the wings off flies just to see what will happen. I don't serve that God. I'm not sure why Calvinists settle for that in many ways, but it can create a lot of arrogance at being elected and many of us have noted a lot of cold heartedness among them. It's a harsh doctrine. But hey, if you are elected, just cuz God said, there's no need to be very loving, gracious and all the rest.
@max marrero Well your views are creepy as hell and you have a dim view of a loving God.
The Bible says to dust you are and to dust you will return what what exactly the h*ll is going to burn if we are made from dust... that's my line of argument yours doesn't make sense it actually contradicts with what the Bible teaches .. Gehena is A greek word for hell why do those 2 words have diffent meanings tell me???
Nailed it !
Piper says that God created the universe to display the full range of his perfections including wrath, power, judgment, justice, etc., Let's think about this. If God needed to make the universe to do just as such, then that means the He is dependent of something. That would not make Him God. I don't believe God needed to do anything, but instead, because of His love, He decided to create a universe and conscious beings to willingly reciprocate that same love.
+brivera6462 But they didn't willingly reciprocate that same love. They broke the only rule He gave them. In fact, since they were made completely good, they didn't do anything wrong, and they couldn't. Breaking that one rule was the only thing they could do that was wrong. AND THEY DID IT! AND SHORTLY AFTER THEY WERE MADE. The only means to help them was for God Himself to become man and take the punishment Himself.
+deezynar with all due respect, you don't make yourself too clear with whatever point you want to make. I assume you are referring to Adam and Eve in the garden, correct? Then you said they couldn't do anything wrong but then did something wrong (contradiction). I'm sorry but I am completely lost with your response.
brivera6462
They were not normal people. They were not like you and me. God made them without sin, THEY WERE UNABLE TO SIN, EXCEPT for that ONE THING. It is not complicated. They had only one thing to avoid and they were on it like white on rice in a nanosecond.
Where are you getting your information from because that is clearly not scriptural. Adam and Eve were just as human as you and I. Also, what you stated about not being able to sin BUT THEY SINNED by disobeying God is a clear self-contradiction on your part.
You say that had one thing to avoid-- meaning they had a choice. If you have read the Bible you will see that it is our Free Will to choose that will determine our eternal destiny. Adam had just as much of a choice to obey or disobey God's command as we do to choose to accept or reject Jesus' gift of salvation.
Once again, I do not know where you are getting your information from but please check the validity of your sources or your ability to interpret. I do not say that to offend but more as a constructive response.
brivera6462
You are in serious error if you believe that pre-fall Adam was just like you and I. What I have said previously is very simple, and right from the bible. "God saw all that He made, and it was very good." Man was made "very good." That means Adam and Eve couldn't sin. Everything they wanted to do was in line with God's will. God made one test for them that they could potentially do that would be against His will, eat the fruit that will give them something they lacked. They already had goodness, it was evil that they knew nothing about. Adam was not like us until after he rebelled. Adam had no free will to sin before he ate the fruit, except in that one, very specific action. After Adam's rebellion, mankind is spiritually dead. In fact, spiritual death is passed from father to child. It means that no man will choose God, because all are conceived with a hate for God. Mary was made to be pregnant by God, because spiritual death comes through men. The virgin birth is based on this. Jesus was like Adam was before the fall. Because Jesus stayed obedient, and took the punishment meant for those who God predestined, they will have spiritual life given to them for the first time in their lives.
this guy avoids the real question. glorifying God is what people do, when they praise and worship him. the Bible says God does not glory in the destruction of anyone. answer that pastor John?????
Book, chapter, verse, please.
@@justinbirkelo6806 2nd Peter 3:9
it is this that God knows the end from the beginning ,,,,,that is how this all comes about , our ways are not his ways and who can know the mind of God
Easy! He doesn't predestine people to go to hell! Each person has their own free will to choose!
still doesnt make any sense for someone to be punished if god predestined them to be sinners
James 2:13 mercy triumphs over judgement. We must be merciful to obtain mercy.Matthew 5:7
The word "hell" is an English translation of several words none of which have anything to do with eternal torment. As in Adam all died, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. Check out tentmakerdotorg.
True brother. I made a short video explaining each word Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus and why they should not be translated hell in the first place. ua-cam.com/video/UjQdJ-7Nb2M/v-deo.html
The Germanic concept of Hel is basically identical to Hades. We all go to Hel when we die. Some go to the good place and some a place of punishment. Then there is the resurrection and the entering into the fullness of God’s presence.
The flaw in Piper's reasoning is that he fails to understand that God's patience is always towards salvation, not damnation. Romans 9:22 must be read in the context of 2 pet 3:15 where Peter explicitly explains Paul's understanding of God's patience. God genuinely wants all to be saved and patiently longs for that, but those that refuse God's patient outward call are going to end up damned. God's glory resides in his love and patience toward the lost, not in the intent of their damnation. Piper fails to understand the true nature of God's love and patience.
Bear in mind that Piper's understanding of Romans 9 is a historic novelty as of the 16th century. There were no Calvinists prior to the Reformation. It is a theological aberration, not orthodoxy.
But the problem is god doesnt give the option to be saved to every person, only those that he wants. God doesnt love everyone, only those elect
First, I would like to praise Pastor Piper for trying to answer such a difficult question. He has tried hard and does offer some reasons. However I am still totally unconvinced. Let me make a couple of points.
The real question here hinges on a Calvinist view of salvation. Why does God create the vast bulk of human beings for a short finite time here of earth - where they may be happy and fulfilled or more probably where they will not be - and then to consign them to eternal torture of excruciating agony without giving them any chance of avoiding that eternal destiny? If God does that, could we see Him as all-benevolent or would we have to see Him as a monster?
John Piper says that the delight and joy of those in Heaven will be all the greater against the black backdrop of the others consigned to perdition. But God could change that backdrop if He wished. Imagine a lottery where if you win you get to live in a palace and everything is perfect but if you lose you have no food and you starve to death. Each week, a new winner takes his or her place in unimaginable luxury and gets an extra kick out of watching the losers die. How sick is that and how sadistic must a person be who could think up a game like that?
If I was forced to embrace Calvinism, I don't know if my faith could survive it. Thank the Lord for Jacobus Arminius who used the Bible and reason to develop and structure a system which means Christ died for us all and each of us has the chance to accept the free gift of salvation through God's grace and love.
If I were to accept arminianism while maintaining a proper view of my sin -for the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), idk how I wouldn't be crushed by the weight of that. If one sin deserves death and we all sin many many many times daily, how can people who think one can lose their salvation not think they've lost their salvation or lose it all the time? If one believes one can lose their salvation then they must believe hebrews 6:4-6 says that if you lose your salvation "it is impossible to restore them again to repentance". That would mean if you lose it you could never get it back. Thank God that's not what Hebrews 6 is about since being "enlightened" nowhere in the bible actually means saved, and IF saved then you will not lose your salvation. John 10:27-30 verse 28 "I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and THEY WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER PERISH, and no one will snatch them out of My hand." Emphasis my own of course to try to really get the message of that clear. And verse 29 brings it home. Anyway, if we are able to lose our salvation, which clearly the scriptures do not teach that, then every single one of us would my friend. None of us would ever have a chance. Jesus didn't die for some of our (the elect, Romans 9) sins. He died for all of them knowing what all we would do. We all break the two greatest commandments every single day man. We don't love God the way we should every single moment every single day and we don't love our neighbors as ourself as we should every single moment every single day. If there's anything we would lose our salvation over, surely it would be from breaking the 2 greatest commandments. Thank God for the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. His promises that what He started, He WILL bring it to completion (Philippians 1:6). Without that doctrine, how can any of the other doctrines that go along with salvation be enjoyed if The Lord will not absolutely keep those whom He has saved? What does justification and being made righteous and all the rest matter if we are able to lose it? Understand my friend, salvation starts with The Lord. Repentance is a gift from God. Salvation is maintained by The Lord through the power of His Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirits ministry of sanctification, and ultimately God is the one who brings us to glory. Beginning, middle and end... ALL God. Turn from the heresies of arminianism brother. Although Arminians will deny it, that false doctrine is a very self-righteous doctrine. There's a mindset that comes with it that their sins aren't nearly as big and serious as they are (since I've never met an Arminian who would say they've lost their salvation over the sins they committed just in the first few hours of being awake that day) while not viewing as big and as serious Christ's finished work on the cross.
@@Res187Evil rofl. Wow. Apostasy is a thing. The Bible talks about it. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you "lose" your salvation if you sin. Walking away from God or losing your faith is NOT a single sin you committed ("ops, I took two samples at Costco..."). You want to claim that the entire world of believers for 6,500 years where all heretics until John Calvin saved us with his gospel that he wrote from magical invisible tablets that he read with his magical invisible glasses? Seriously, that makes no sense. Judaism doesn't believe in anything even close to Calvinism and the world didn't even know about Calvinism until the 1500s. I think you've been blinded brother.
@@huntsman528 Reformed Christians believe it's the original Apostles doctrine, and the only one truly taught by scripture. It's not a new concept, just one that was lost for a time while the Catholic Church expanded.
@@ChristopherChavez Even Calvin says Augustine is the only early church father to talk about calvinistic beliefs. And he didn't preach that until the end of his life. It also appears to have come from gnostic and Manichean religions, which is what Augustine believed prior to converting to Christianity.
@@huntsman528 Who said anything at all about Calvin? Everything I wrote on I backed up with scripture & not the words of a man. Although I am reformed in my theology, I do not consider myself Calvinist. Argue against the actual scriptures I used rather than using a strawman fallacy to take attention off the real issue so we can have legitimate, and hopefully beneficial, discourse. I agree apostasy is real. It's clearly in the scriptures, but apostasy only shows the person was never saved to begin with. True born-again Christians saved by the power of the Holy Spirit can not undue what God has done. Unless you want to say mans choices are higher & stronger than Gods...?
if everyone is in a rebellion against God, it means they are His enemies...God commands us to love everyone, even our enemies.... so if i love all my enemies(and by that i mean that i wish for them nothing buut the best, and them to be with God forever and ever), i'm greater than God, Who just love some of His enemies and give them grace to be saved?
God loved his enemies in that he died for them.
In people's eyes, the God is the enemy, they treat him like that cause they are blinded. But God loves all and all he wants is to be acknowledged as their Lord that gave them life and a chance to be saved through Jesus and by his grace. God could sweep everything away but he has patience with us sinners. He's showing us great mercy. It's just incredible when I think about it as I'm writing this.
kudos to Tony who has to say basically the same exact line at the end of every single podcast xD already more than 1000 times to date. Feeling sorry for ya, it's ok to play a recording ;) thank you guys so much for your answers regarding predestination, free-will and God's sovereignty and grace.
Eze_18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
It glorifies God to create human beings as sinners and send them to hell, yet He takes no pleasure in sending them to hell, but He decides to create them to send them straight to hell anyway?
Makes perfect sense, John.
The conclusion is simple- God. Is. Evil.
Piper does nothing but evade the question. He says there will be no one in hell who has repented, but his doctrine teaches that you can't repent unless God makes you. He also has the cheek to say the bible doesn't EVER state that God predestine people to hell, which is true, but he believes it regardless, because Calvin is a higher authority to him than scripture.
I don't think he evades the question at all. I just think many don't like his response. Yes it is God who grants repentance but he is not obligated to save everyone. That's what makes him a sovereign ruler. He can do what he pleases. That may sound "Unjust" but God is not unjust he is the very definition of Justice. And yes the Bible does not clearly say blatantly that people are "prestined to hell" but there is definitely scriptural support for the doctrine itself. What many people don't understand is that Calvinist are not calvinist because of John Calvin. Calvinist are calvinist because when it comes to biblical exegesis it complety harmonizes with what Calvin taught. Same with Luther, same with Wyclifee.
God chooses those that choose him.
Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 HAVE I ANY PLEASURE AT ALL THAT THE WICKED SHOULD DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
God would not have given the exhortation for man to TURN if man had no free will and was "totally incapable" of doing so, hence the Calvinist assertion that man is "incapable" is false and refuted with the truth of God's Word.
Exactly. God gave us intelligence in order to THINK. And free will in order to CHOOSE. Like Pinnocchio whose father turned a dummy into a little boy.... a dummy in the flesh with free will lol. When Pinnocchio sees the evil that controls Pleasure Island (the world, esp USA), he TURNS AWAY from his sins & COMES OUT OF HER. To go SEEK HIS FATHER. With whom he endures Tribulation in the belly of the Beast but makes it back home & reconciled to His Father. That was the story of the PRODIGAL SON & REPENTANCE ❤
Based on Calvinist teaching he is going to get some pleasure out of it because somehow it's supposed to be to display his Glory, so yeah...
@@gab31282 And most Christian's seem to believe the original sin was eating an apple. Or whatever fruit it was. Aprons made from Fig leaves... maybe it was FIGS which are full of Seeds?? Or simple disobedience = eternal death. But the Original Sin was primarily PRIDE. Eve believed the biggest scam ever.... you can be your OWN GOD = do as thou wilt = there is no Judgement. Adam double downed.& fell from God's Grace. He went from a King to a Slave. They ate/consumed/consummated the marriage/covenant with The Serpent & became grafted into The Tree of [Death]. Knew & Knowledge are the same root word. When Adam KNEW His wife, she conceived. Clearly biblical KNOWING means the husband SOWING His SEED into the EARTH. That's what happens in a GARDEN & that's why God made Adam & Eve from Dust of the Earth. God judged them, cursed them & threw them out of the Garden of Eden. He said, YOUR DESIRE WILL BE FOR YOUR HUSBAND. The one with the Seed = Husband & Earth = Bride. Knowledge of Good & Evil = Bad Seed. Adam & the entire Fig Tree Generations have been reproducing Bad Seed. And we're all born with the same Original Sin of Vain Pride = Playing God, just like Lucifer who tried & failed to take over God's throne. We're all clones of Adam & Eve... prone to deception & slaves to [subject to] Sin, Death & Hell. Only the Blood of Jesus & the Grace of God can reGENErate us (Born Again). We need an extreme DNA makeover. From the image of Adam to the image of God.
@@gab31282 Wrong! Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 HAVE I ANY PLEASURE AT ALL THAT THE WICKED SHOULD DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
For God has bound all men to disobedience so that he can have mercy on what THEM ALL.
Someone who didn't stop reading in Romans 9. God bless you.
Can doesn't mean will.
Only a person that’s rebelling against God would be offended by this. Seek him with all your heart and you will find. None of us deserve Heaven. So if God decides to save some and not others he isn’t wrong or unjust .
No but the offence comes in the last part where he says because of hell we’ll be more overjoyed in heaven and that just comes off sadistic to me. God takes no pleasure in the death of the unrighteous. That is what I believe and that is the God I worship and serve.
@@dmr4702 We need to read the Bible from start to finish tho. It's scary stuff, but Piper is mostly correct. Except the Eternal concious torment view of hell. I can see annihilationism clearly in the Bible ( which is also scary, even though more merciful ).
@@CappieBG True we should read the bible from start to finish, but I’ve read a fair amount of the bible and I see clearly how God works his purposes through man’s own decisions, I think coming to a conclusion like believing it’s all just a big play and God gave us the illusion that we make free choices just for us to never be given a choice sounds like it would compromise God’s integrity. God is not a God of confusion, to be a Calvinist you still must live life as if you have a choice and have the mindset that you have a choice, why would God make that a fact if he would tell us that we have no choice. One of the reasons God’s work is so fascinating is because he works through man’s own free will, he works out his purposes through people’s own choices, he strengthens our own position yes, does he choose our position? I don’t believe so. Jesus spoke in parables so that the Pharisees couldn’t understand what he was saying: “this is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.” - Mathew 13:13
He knew that they would have a chance to listen if he told them straight up, but he was allowing their own hardness of heart to keep them in their own ways in order that his purpose could work through their own will.
TO SAY GOD PREDESTINED SOMEONE TO HELL IS JUST OUTRIGHT IGNORANCE
Read Deuteronomy 18:21 all prophecies come to pass so when it says that people get cast into hell that's a prophecy therefore people were predestined for that
He's skirting around the issue. We know nobody will be in Hell who doesn't deserve to be there. However, how do we determine who has rebelled against God to deserve punishment? How do you determine rebellion? At what point do you determine what is rebellion and what is not? Can you enjoy Shakespeare, for example? You can? Well, I ask can you enjoy plays that glorify deceit, tragedy, murder, occult. If you can, surely this is rebellion. So, you're going to Hell. For eternity. That's just one example. Kids playing Cowboys and Indians. Playing about violence. Is that rebellion from God? Does that deem punishment in Hell? Its a tough question to ask and I believe no one has the answer.
we ALL deserve hell
We know through what God's word teaches just like anything that pertains to God, Life or godliness. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if Elohim peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong-not that we will appear to have stood the test, but that you will do what is right, even if we appear to have failed. For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. In fact, we rejoice when we are weak but you are strong, and our prayer is for your perfection.
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load. Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.
This verse should sum it up for you,.
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This man doesn't know the true God of the Bible!
That's quite the comment to purport against John Piper. Perhaps you could explain, as well as more thoroughly answer the question asked of him.
Oh dear, the amount of harm these beliefs bring to people.. So sad
The belief is not harmful, hating people is harmful; the later is not presented here.
The belief causes hatred and is the root of harm.
Frej von Fräähsen If it causes hatred for anything, it's the sin in our own lives. God hates sin, therefore we (Christians) hate sin; God loves people, so we love people... Christians hate the sin, not the sinner. I'm sorry if you feel it's the other way around. Please look into reading the Gospel, it teaches some amazing things and gives an understanding of what real love is better than any other book you or I can ever read.
Luke 6:32-36, "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."
Also, read 1 John 4:7-21, keep in mind John is talking directly to people that already claim to follow Christendom, so make sure to put it in cultural perspective; it's importance to understand the audience to which he is writing. Hopefully these few verse will give you a small glimpse at what Christianity is about. I would again encourage you to read at least the first 4 parts of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John... then see if you still feel that the Christian belief system is focused on building hatred.
You read a book and claim ownership of, and knowing the thoughts of, a supreme being. I don't acknowledge the authority of the Bible or christians or your so called "god". I am infinitely grateful that I was raised in a rational and secular country that doesn't use god as a legitimizing force for owning guns or killing gays/ blacks/ arabs. Your faith has advocated owning of slaves and violence against others. I will never ever see your lifestyle as a force for good in the world.
Frej von Fräähsen That's all fine and good, the great thing is we are able, each of us, to make that choice for ourselves. The problem is, that we are force fed other things that we "must believe" in order to be considered rational human beings. That in itself, is that opposite of rationality, it's basically thought slavery. People should be allowed to come to their own conclusions based on the evidence they analyze, not what someone tells them to believe.
I'm not sure which country you are talking about when you talk about one that legitimizes using force for owning guns, killing gays, blacks, arabs... I think the few theocracies out there are in eastern Asia; so I'm not well versed on them.
If you believe Christianity has advocated owning slaves; I would say you have misread or misunderstood many important parts of the Bible. The slavery of the OT and even that which is eluded to in the NT was not the same as slavery in the pre-American Civil War era. I'd encourage you to do research on that believe making vague and less than accurate comments about it.
Lastly, read Philemon in the NT. It's a short book of the Bible, specifically verses 15-16. It most definitely does not advocating slavery. I encourage you to read the entire book and speak with a pastor or other Christians on the subject. These conversations are received better in person, rather than this informal youtube messaging.
How does it glorify God? It doesn’t.
Yeah He doesn't enjoy sending people to hell! He wants everyone to be saved! What's wrong with these people?
@JJ it's not that, but would God dance over His enemies burning in flames and suffering the ultimate punishment?
@JJ yeah but piper isn't God. God doesn't hate everyone
Thank you @ jordan
@@katym.8250 That doesn't make any sense
What is the Calvinist interpretation of:
"And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32)
Blasphemer. First John 2:2. First Timothy 2:4. John 3:16-18. John 6:40 and John 6:29. First John 5:13. Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, First Corinthians 15:1-4, For it is the POWER of God to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. First Corinthians 1:21 John 3:18. Those who have once believed are saved for ever because they believed of their own free will. God in His sovereignty gave man a free will to either accept his free gift of eternal life or not. B
Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, (eternal life) and the calling of God, (John 12:32) are without repentance. Irrevocable, can not be changed back. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. The gift is eternal life when we believe it. Not a reward for good behavior.
If God is infinitely good, indeed love itself, then he wouldn't elect to save some and not others- if he could save all he would.
An infinitely just God would not elect some and not others.
@@ervabarnesii4892 True. God is Holy: can't tolerate sin, that's why we oughta be washed in the blood. God is love: that is why he sent Jesus Christ to die for our sins. God is just: that is why he punished Jesus Christ the just in our place, us, the unjusts. Jesus Christ tasted the holy wrath of God the Father in our place. All things seems to revolve around God being love and holy.
NOBODY is predestined to Hell. Ever. If you think God predestines people to Hell, you are not believing the word of God, nor do you know the heart of God.
Please read 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:1-4 for more understanding.
How could God grant us free will if He would defeat it by fate/predestination? His will (Jeremiah 29:11-13) for our lives is not always done.
Regardless, ultimately, it's not if anyone knows OF Jesus, but how many are truly known by Jesus. (Luke 13:22-28)
Dkabakjian18 Of course the word of God applies to us the same today as it did in ancient times. Are you a cessationist? Do you think God changes His mind? Do you not understand the prophetic gift? Do you reject the Holy Spirit? Your statement about how the passage of Jeremiah does not apply to us today is foolish and reveals a deep lack of knowledge of God's heart for us. (Hebrews 13:8)
Do you think that everything that happens is God's sovereign will? Nobody should. However, God has a plan for our lives just as certainly Satan does. The plan we agree to must come to pass is the one we fulfill.
"Many plans a man has in his heart, but it's the Lord who determines his steps."
In summation, God's word through Jeremiah was not even realized in the lives of all Jews, but God's promises are always 'Yes and Amen' in Jesus. I fully agree with you in that God does not bless us to simply make us healthy, wealthy, and wise, but He blesses us so His will for our lives can come to fruition.
“Must make some qualifications” - this perfectly sums up Reformed theology.
He spoke about 5 minutes, nothing but nonsense! Confusing as hell!! Folks, that's Calvinism for you, Wake up !😮
It doesn't glorify God when you calvinists are saying that God has destined certain people to hell from the beginning of time. Don't listen to Piper.
Not predestined to go to hell, but God certainly pre knows what our choices will be. Though He gives us every opportunity and reason to change direction. He will not force us to conform. We are not His pets we are His children. He has given the respect letting us choose.
That’s the big debate. Did God predestine is to make these free will choices or are they actually free will choices and God has to work through the Choices of men. It’s a very difficult subject to get into because it’s hard to say what God did and does
Why would God allow someone to be born if He knew ahead of time that the person would end up in hell? It would more merciful for the person not to be born.
That’s exactly what Jesus said about Judas, but Judas was still used to bring glory to God. The whole point is that God can do as he pleases with his created beings. He doesn’t send someone to hell. They choose to go to hell, but God is so powerful that he is able to bring himself glory through a sinner who has rejected him. Read Romans and explains this perfectly.
Say it again
God knew when he created us that we would have 2 paths to choose from so he made us in hopes we would choose him …. Some people don’t choose him
God didn't predestine any of his children for Hell,read the parable of the wheat and the tares and take it literally,not everyone in the world is of God,Jesus planted HIS children,the wheat in the world and the enemy planted his children,the tares in the world,Jesus Christ is going to SAVE ALL OF HIS CHILDREN! and not one of them will be lost. Bob.
Wait so we are not all creations of God?
@@kritikasampleone7457 I agree with Janet, Christ said MY sheep hear my voice. In other ocassions he told men that they were of their FATHER the devil. Imagine me saying that to someone. Those are strong words. and these are only 2 examples. Its a very deep subject that i would like to know more about... but it does seem that their are children of lucifer. Look at Cain for example, or Nimrod etc. However they are all still Gods creation, but evil is the backdrop to show his glory.
Please let me know where this assessment of John Piper's god is in error: Let’s look at the god of John Piper, as if the god of John Piper is speaking:
“Hey guys (Jesus and the Holy Spirit), it’s been really good so far, let’s create a world where billions of people are born and - some, we’ll elect to be saved, and others, well - not so, and we’ll let loose a fallen character named Lucifer, who becomes Satan, to tempt them of things that we will have written into being, for their own good, even though they do not know what is good or evil, but, we’ll show them in such horrific fashion, it will be unmistakably known, the difference -
and Jesus, you are going to go down there and die for all the elect’s evil acts, forgiving them of their sins, in order that they can praise me for such (even though I am writing into being every rape, murder, and other sin, which Satan will have license over them, in order that they would - like I said before, know the difference between good and evil); whereas, the un-elect will stand as an example of what happens when you don’t place your faith in me - and the Holy Spirit does not convict them into believing in what Jesus did for the elect’s sins, because they are the un-elect, and cannot be woken to believe such, and cannot praise me for my glory, for they’ll spend an eternity in hell being punished for such, as they were designed for - an unwillingness to bend a knee to their Creator, who created them in order that they could not.
WHAT?!?
Yeah, that’s the schizophrenic, Cognitively Dissonant god of John Piper’s understanding, whom I pray will not infect other minds, hearts, and souls with such belief.
Spot on.
Nailed. It
On the money!!
Your explanation is partly true about the predestination doctrine (not entirely true). Yes, he chose to save some sinners and predestine others to hell cause they deserved it just like Piper explained. In the end, God is still righteous by doing so because He is the sovereign God. He shows mercy to those whom He may show mercy, and compassion to those whom He may have compassion (Romans 9:15). Again, because He is GOD.
You don't have to understand it but the bible does point to pre destination . I believe it's because he already knows our hearts and our choices. He still wanted to create he may have had to not create at all if he wanted to avoid evil. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. His ways higher than our ways.
The following Scriptural passages debunk Calvinism's false teaching that it glorifies God to predestine people to hell:
Ezekiel 18:23 - 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 18:32 - 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES and live ye.
Ezekiel 33:11 - 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF WICKED; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:TURN YE, TURN YE from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
God would not have given the exhortation for man to TURN if man was "totally incapable" of doing so, hence your Calvinist assertion that man is "incapable" is false and refuted with the truth of God's Word.
I can see Bro. John doesn't believe what he is teaching.... He knows the truth but will hold to these heresies till the end...God forbid
God doesn't need to show anybody mercy, he would be just to send everyone to hell? so how does it glorify God to predestine people to hell? a better question to ask is- why does God have mercy on ANYONE?
Why create anyone if his glory was already perfect?
Because He loves them. He does love the world. However the way He loves the elect is like the way a husband has a love for his bride. Its a love that sets her apart. Its a love that distinguishes her. No other woman could ever have the same effect on him. because this groom is not an adulterer so there is no openness in the marriage and his devotion to His bride is traced back before the creation of the world. He is all knowing (omniscient) and is beyond time space and matter. beyond time meaning In the beginning God was already there. He created the heavens (space). and He's beyond everything including the foundation of the world. My question for anyone having trouble understanding God's predetermination of everything (not just people) is what is his purpose for evil?
Stephen King "he loves the world" destroys it in a flood...
proceeds to set it all on fire for a lack of faith in the unknown.......... 😢
don't believe it man. we have free will which god will not violate. we choose our destiny. Jesus Christ died for all mankind not just the elect and the bible says he became our sin, he took the punishment for EVERY man's sins. its literally up to us if we wanna be with him or not
daniel doyle he violates our "free will" when we die
I have faith in God, yet just like anyone else can, I have questions. Here's one: So, I was nothing. I asked for nothing because I was nothing, non-existent. Then, God allowed for me to exist. Then, I grow to learn that I either do good and well by God's word/law if I want to be saved and enter heaven or I don't follow as instructed and I "burn" in hell. How do I have "freedom of choice" when the choices are only two and my opinion to the matter was none and neither was I given the choice to exist and participate in this stressful event of "do or die"?
Imagine, for a moment, having six children. You had the power to make them all happy (pre-destine them to happiness). Instead, you get the bright idea to butcher five of them in front of the one remaining. You do this because the one remaining child will now think more highly of you because they will learn that you are not merely a loving father but a heartless murder too - who has arbitrarily chosen not to butcher you.
You can also imagine, as God tosses your children into the fire, how filled with joy you will become as you selfishly say "thank you God for picking them and not me".
Does it need to be pointed out that a more horrific view of God could not be imagined?
If God commands you to love your enemies while he hates them is that not hypocrisy of the greatest magnitude.
Imagine that you were a king whose citizens killed and attacked your only child. The king would be fully just in punishing the criminals, but in his great mercy he decided to save some of them. Those who he saved would be evermore grateful since their king had mercy.
God does love his enemies. He showed his love in this, that while we were still sinners, he died for us. Anyone who goes to hell WILLINGLY chooses to rebel and not accept him.
@@jvigel2101 You're confusing popular evangelicalism (which also paints a horrible picture of God, but that's another discussion) with traditional Calvinism - which is what the speaker in this video promotes and which I am responding to.
In traditional Calvinism, God does not love his enemies. He hates them the way he hated Esau and all the others He predestined to eternal hell.
Whoever said unbelievers are the children of God? Indeed they are not. John 8 is clear that those who are God's children will hear His voice and believe. Those who are not His children are children of the devil and simply will not follow.
@@wildbill6536 Ah, so God doesn't kill his own children for his glory - just your children. Of course, that makes everything fine.
Also, who decided who his children are? HE did!!
Whatever you call them, they are humans who have the potential to experience both love or torment. Why does it make a difference what title God decides to put on those HE CHOSE to save and those HE CHOSE to butcher in hell?
God DECIDED to love some and torment others. Not because some were his children and some were not. It was God who decided who would burn in hell and God who decided that they would not be his children.
Please stop defending your filthy Satan-god who hates most of the people you love - maybe even you, you can't be sure yet.
God wills ALL to be saved, Calvinism is a lie period. Tulip is not in the Bible. Scripture is clear, Christ died for EVERY person
God CHOOSES, in eternity, to pass over the reprobate, letting them die in their sin. I don't care how a Calvinist tries to soften the language, the God of Calvinist theology is unjust.
Problems with this theology:
a) Paints God as incomplete... He "needed" to show is wrath, so created imperfect/destined to sin beings? That is not a perfect God.
b) The "darkness" that brings out the "light" more is not a good perspective of God either. If He is light, there is no need for darkness to show how good the light actually is.
c) Piper never once mentioned "love" as the motive for God to create humans or really at all in this message. Love is the key to who God is. It is central. It is WHO He is.
d) I would not be appreciative to a God who says "look at all these sinners going to hell, aren't you glad you aren't one of them?" I would say "no, I love my neighbor as myself, I can't be happy that you picked me and not all those others". God is not vindictive or petty like that. He earnestly desires that all may be saved. (1 Timothy 2:4)
I was thinking about that too he desires that all be saved
Then who did John see in revelation getting thrown in the lake of fire? Real people or make belief? If they were real then it's obvious to see that God already knows who's going to hell.
no one will be in Heaven that deserves to be in Heaven....
Let God be true and everyman a liar God will be glorified either through your life or through your 💀 Peace be with you🍷🍞
He didn’t get to the bottom line. Sure there won’t be anybody in Hellfire who isn’t in a state of rebellion. But, if they are predestined to be in rebellion then you still haven’t answered the question of how this glorifies God. If anything, this picture of God makes Him worse than the devil. God is love. Anything that is contrary to that you can be sure is a false doctrine. This is why I KNOW that Calvinism is a perversion of scripture.
Hell does not exist. The phrase 'eternal punishment' is 'kolasis aionios' in the greek which literally means 'discipline age-long.' There is not eternal torment but it is a disciplinary place that has a beginning and an end. Which means that sinners will be able to repent at the judgement seat of Christ which is his 1000 year reign. After everyone has repented there will be a new Earth, heavens and Jerusalem where there will be no crying and pain. "Every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Did he say Christians? Or did he say everyone. If you think he said some you are reading into the text and putting your presuppositions on the text.
I cant believe how lightly we throw around the phrase "in hell forever". Do any of us truly believe in this? FOR. EVER. Consciously suffering, without ceasing, every single moment of eternity. With no hope of it stopping. No hope of it getting better. Day after day after day. Now that's a scary sentence, but I haven't even scratched the surface of the incomprehensible suffering that, according to Piper, some of our friends and family have no way of escaping. If it's God's will that none should perish, then none shall perish.If it's true that with no hope of an alternative, some will suffer for an infinite amount of time, then my whole existence is in anger, anguish, sorrow and pain for those I've known and lost who are currently suffering this fate. Oh wonderful for me that I am saved, but how selfish of me to be pleased with my own salvation when billions of others are in eternal torment. Sorry, I don't buy it. Not my God.
“Not my God”. Sorry sir, then you worship no god.
@@Texasguy316 He worships the true God, who is love. This is precisely why he has the courage to reject the demonic bitter "god" of Calvinism - its fear-filled followers to afraid to consult the light within them that tells them that the law of love is far superior to the words of men.
You can not worship an image of hate while at the same time love. Even Satan can cloth himself in scripture verses that deceive those who are not yet ready to face the questions every adult must face. Instead, they just obey the fear placed in them by other men.
God loves you so much that its not in him to ever reject you - no matter how long it takes you to learn what is good and what is evil. That's a God who is actually worthy of worship. If worship was due to the powerful then even Hitler would deserve some praise.
@@stevetucker5851 I think the only way most people could accept the idea of an eternal hell is to be brainwashed into it from a young age.
There are many scriptures that show hell is real, is eternal and many go there. We can't dress it up. We all have family and friends there. God is not willing for any to perish and He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but we have free will and He can't force us to make the right choices.
@@thewhole_picture1743
Why can't God extend your free will to accept him in the afterlife after you realize the true nature of your choices? There doesn't seem to be anything stopping him from this. Why an arbitrary deadline for mercy at physical death?
God cannot condemn us for a choice we couldn't possibly make in the first place. If God ordained before the foundation of the world to save some sinners, then he also ordained to condemn people to hell before they ever made a choice in their lives. This concept totally contradicts the scriptures.
It's not a contradiction. God says He will give mercy to whom he will give mercy. That means He freely chooses to NOT give mercy to some. Since we are all sinners, we are at enmity w/ God. We are not at all w/peace w/Him right from the get go. God is a just God. God gives mercy to some.He gives justice to others. (hell). The question why God saves some is not the question we should be asking. We should be asking, "Why does God give mercy to even ONE person!" But thanks be to God that He DOES give mercy to some, even though they were born into this world at war w/God. Salvation is of the LORD. (not of ourselves). Looking back at your 1st sentence,
"God cannot condemn us for a choice we couldn't possibly make in the first place." That statement is misleading, because we all inherited sin from Adam and Eve. And we make choices all the time. We are inclined to evil in those choices UNTIL the Holy Spirit regenerates the spiritually dead person. THEN, the person is inclined towards the things of God. The struggle of the flesh will remain, but one a person is born-again, that individual basically wants to please God and the process of sanctification begins. It seems to me, that you don't think it's "fair" that God freely chooses to save some while not saving others. But who are you to say whats fair? You are the clay and not the Potter. God is righteous in all His judgments. You, on the other hand, are simply opinionated and don't know what's "fair" or just. That's God's domain alone..especially on the matters of whom or whom will not be saved.
How do you know he's given that mercy to you?
That's easy to answer. By human standards, I was highly unlikely to ever know Him. I was raised by atheists. Growing up I never thought of Him. But God directly dealt with me. One day I had no interest in Him, then the next day I felt a strong hunger to know Him(or at least to see whom He might be, if He existed at all). I started reading the Bible and instantly I knew deep inside of me that His Word was Truth. But being the stubborn skeptic I was, I examined the Scriptures carefully, researched how the Bible came to be, studied church history,etc. The more I looked into all of those things the more convinced I was that the God of the Bible was true. I also looked at the other main religions and world views(including conclusions one must make from the atheist position). None of them made rational sense at all. But what rang true the most was Jesus and His historicity. Even His enemies recognized that he was historical. Some even believed He did miracles but attributed the miracles from coming from Satan! All in all, we must come to grips about Jesus. Is He whom He said He was or not? I am HIGHLY convinced He IS God in the flesh that came down from heaven to save His people from their sins. Being passive about it will be no excuse when we face Judgment. I hope you also research all these things!
I agree with everything you say and I'm happy you believe! I just don't think God wants anyone to go to hell. Period.
I would agree with you that God does not desire people to go to hell. But God is eternal and His attributes are consistent and unchanging. So that causes quite the dilemma now doesn't it? God does not wish hell for people yet He MUST punish sin and execute His righteous justice . There are but two destinations in the afterlife: heaven or hell. Since sin cannot be in God's presence in heaven, then those that do not have their sins covered by the blood of Jesus and have Jesus' righteousness imputed into that individual, what destination will they go? It's impossible to be in heaven if they rejected the Gospel and lived a life of no repentance, therefore they MUST go to hell. If God allowed those people into heaven, then He would NOT be a righteous Judge! When we read the Bible, we must allow the Bible to interpret itself. In other words, we can't choose one verse that we prefer while ignoring other Scriptures. We must look at the whole counsel of God. The Bible mentions numerous times that there will be people in hell. God does not 'enjoy' to judge people to hell, but He must. God is love. God is holy. The two are not at odds w/one another. They don't contradict themselves. "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"Ezekiel 18:32. But do all people repent? And have faith? Obviously not. So IF a person does not have faith and does not repent, then it means that it is impossible for them to receive eternal life. So if they won't be able to enter heaven, we must conclude they will go to hell. God doesn't take pleasure in them going to hell. But since He is perfectly holy and righteous, he must execute justice and send souls to hell.Period.
Jesus gave a terrifying warning when he said "Many will say to me on the last day and say Lord Lord, didn't we do many works in your name, and I will say to them, depart from me for I never knew you" (i.e. had a love relationship with you). This is an incredibly tough statement indeed, as the meaning of Jesus's words are terrifying. He is saying some people will genuinely think they had a love relationship with God, only to get the horrific shock that they NEVER had a relationship with God .... EVER!!! These are without doubt the most "scary words" in the entire bible, and seriously frightens many people including me. Therefore Time for some close examination of my our hearts and souls. Is our relationship with Jesus, the Son of God genuine or not? Personally I know in my heart that Jesus really is God incarnate, and he truly was sent by God the Father. He died on that cross where he took the penalty for sin, for those who would ever believe in him. Therefore he took an "eternal punishment" for every individual soul who has genuine faith in him. The big question we all need to ask is "did he take MY personal punishment, upon himself on the cross". I "know" my faith in Jesus is genuine as I know Jesus is truly God and truly man, but even Satan and his followers know this. Justfication is by FAITH ALONE and I genuinely pray for the forgiveness of my sins. I often wonder what will Jesus say to me on that last day. With all my heart I hope he says "welcome, come into my Kingdom". Because In the end faith in Christ in this world is paramount. Everything else is just noise in comparison. God bless everybody.
This is wrong on so many levels church. Wake up!
The question you must answer before answering the question above is "Does God predestine people to hell?"
1) God does NOT predestine people to hell!!!
That is not found in the Bible anywhere.
In fact, it is crystal clear that God's will is that EVERY man be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4)
If it is God's will that every man be saved, predestining some to hell would be double-minded, and the Word is very clear that a
house divided will NOT stand (Mark 3:25)(God is still standing today and He will never change)
2) Eternal life (salvation) is ultimately what glorifies God
The miracle of a man being saved and becoming a new creation in Christ brings Him glory
The only way for a human being to glorify God is to be saved and have God's own Spirit
Having the Holy Spirit is the only way you can do the works of Jesus (John 14:12)
Living the life that Jesus lived is the definition of bringing God glory
3) If people were predestined to hell, that would mean Jesus didn't die for everyone
Fact: Jesus died for ALL (2 Corinthians 5:15)
At 2:55 he dodges the essential question that is at the heart of this issue: "by his permission or design, however you want to want to describe it..." Permission vs design is the essential issue, and they are far, far different things. If God grants permission to sin; he grants permission to not sin. If God designed sin and did not give mankind permission to not sin, then God chose that there would be no righteous people and that all of his creation would "deserve to be in hell;" and that they would not have the ability to choose differently. So that would be on God, not on mankind. That's the core problem for Calvinists.
The Calvinist false doctrine of "predestination" originated from Augustine ("St. Augustine") in his "City of God" heretical writings. John Calvin's name is affixed to it because he heavily emulated Augustine and idolized him.
Augustine states, "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He PREDESTINATED TO EVERLASTING LIFE, as the most merciful bestower of grace; while to those whom He HAS PREDESTINATED TO ETERNAL DEATH, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment not only on account of the sins which they add in the indulgence of their own will, but also because of their original sin, even if, as in the case of infants, they add nothing thereto. Now this is my definite view on that question, so that the hidden things of God may keep their secret, without impairing my own faith." - Augustine, City of God, On the Soul and its Origin, Book 4, Chapter 16.
John Calvin did not get his version of "predestination/election" from the Bible, but he borrowed it from his idol, Augustine. His version of it is identical to Augustine's perversion of it.
1) ....."salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5.
2) "We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, ETERNAL LIFE IS FORE-ORDAINED FOR SOME, ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR OTHERS." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5.
3) ..."we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into SALVATION, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to DESTRUCTION...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7.
It appears that Calvin's definition and Augustine's definition of "predestination/election" is identical to Islam's belief in FATALISM and also identical to Stoicism's belief in DETERMINISM. Satan has packaged the same thing under different names - "Predestination/Election", "Foreordination", "Fatalism", and "Determinism."
God can do whatever He desires and wants. That is our position. We can only be humble and listen and obey by and through Him. It is the most difficult subject and anyone who understands this or think he does needs to think again. This is humanlike to think we can but we cant. Just trust in Him. Nothing more we can do. And thats also very difficult to do. For me atleast.
Hitler also did whatever he wants. Satan also does whatever he wants (although God doesnt allow everything sure, its still possible)
Can God cease to be God? Can God cease to exist?
Here's the answer someone (a reprobate) might give on that day . . .
I had no choice; I've found out, since dying, that you O God, predestined me to be on my way to hell now and there's nothing I could have done about it... because I now know that you didn't choose to 'cause me' to be born again and repent...
I don't understand it God!?...
With respect O Lord, I know I deserve to be here, but I didn't ask to be born... I was born broken... Into a broken world where so much goes against the knowledge of You...
A world where it is so easy to disbelieve and be governed and guided by immediate sensual gratification... and so hard to believe and choose the good... It's not fair... At all... Throw me in the fire O Lord !
If you were a God that interacted with His creation in a way that all other Christians - bar the Calvinists - claim that you do... This would be fair... But you - through NO DOING OF MY OWN - determined me to do all that I did on earth, for the sole purpose of bringing glory to Yourself now in my "just" condemnation ?
If I had a mirror on me now O God, I would point it back at you, and in justice, You surely, in truth, would be the one Who justly consigned Yourself to the flames...
Calvinism is proof of just how important it is for us to feel "safe" within the consensus of an interpretive tradition... and the joy that comes through being part of something bigger than ourselves.
Any of us can come under dodgy teaching, and John Calvin's novel system (because he was at a pivotal and influential moment in history) unfortunately received cult like reverence among certain reformers and has thus influenced many many thousands afterwards.
The real consensus of the mind of the Church on the matters of foreknowledge, predestination and the place of grace and free will in the entirety of salvation was clearly reached and taught amongst the post apostolic and Ante - Nicene Father's. The whole of the ancient church in both the east and the west, and also the majority of Protestants today, utterly reject Augustine's novel view of predestination in the early 5th century, and the "determinism" of Calvin in the 16th.
Arguing with a fan of reformed / deformed theology is like arguing with a non Christian cultist (though obvs "Calvinists" are deeply consevative and Christian) ... You can't reason with someone who's brainwashed. They "swallow" the hard pill of "the terrible doctrine" out of reverance for God. They have also received a very warped and lopsided view of Christian history which "seems" to uphold Augustine and Calvin as the heroes and bastions of "true orthodoxy"... (oh the irony) ... a history lesson which is bias and has no actual basis in reality. (the JW's / Arians would have more of a case from history, and their doctrines (though wrong) make more Scriptural, philisophical and logical sense than those of some of the reformers)
Divine determinism - to the point that Calvin took it - is irrational and horrific.
In love !
Peace to all in Christ X
You don’t seem to understand the Sovereignty of God, nor does it seem that you have any idea of His holiness. You have constructed an argument to your own self-justification. How does this help you?
Simply accept that you don't know the answer.
So casting someone into everlasting lake of fire is supposed to prove something that can't be proven otherwise? I am a God fearing Christian but l don't think humans can fully understand hell.
What l do know is the fact that if God is serous about his laws then hell needed to exist but l will never understand why it is so gruesome.
Piper is a terrible terrible representation of Christianity, he doesn’t even believe In current works of the Holy Spirit, it’s a shame he’s leading people into a perverted view of God “predestining” people to hell.
Is capriciousness included in this full range of perfections
Only the devil would create a man with the sole purpose to throw him in hell...Period! Well...maybe Calvin too!
Calvin was a piece of work. I don't understand why really intelligent and learned men of God don't know Calvin's history and don't question Calvin's hardline, unloving and even murderous motives in the predestination doctrine that some still follow to this day. Only a man lacking mercy could espouse predestination, as in God destining some to hell just because he's God and he can do what he wants. I do believe in hell as a sad reality, but people who choose to reject God to the bitter end go to hell. Predestination goes against the myriad scriptures and doctrines about free will. "Choose you this day who you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord". I guess Joshua was delusional and just thought he could choose God or not, since Calvin hadn't come along to tell him he couldn't.
Sainte Jeanne d'Arc If you believe that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, there's no other sensible doctrine than that which involve predestination.
unless your free-will doctine will ensure to save all of mankind, then it's no more worse than predestination. at least predestination is consistent with an omniscient God.
if you really believe you have free will, then God would have to be NOT omniscient. because he already knew some people will become athiests and will never believe til the end before even creating them. yet he STILL creates them anyway knowing all too well that they would use their "free will" to be an athiest to the very end and thus will be condemned to hell for eternity. see? still predestined!
@@neocyte85 I also believe God is loving and merciful. You see that max guy above your comment? He doesn't give a crap for people because he thinks God doesn't give a crap for people, so he can just blurt out that "God creates most people to be evil and for hell". That's your predestination doctrine in a nutshell: I'm God, I can do what I want so I will it that most suffer in the torment of hell, oh and I sent my son to suffer horribly for no good reason, because my will is screw people anyway and screw my son who died at the hands of evil people who I created to be evil. This is the God that atheists scoff at and want nothing to do w/ and I don't blame them. But you keep selling them that version of God, not much different than the devil. There's no hope in that gospel message. If God decides you're screwed, you're just screwed and there's no point in repenting, in doing better, there's just no hope. It's a gospel devoid of hope.
Glory be to God Almighty Lord Jesus Christ,
God is not in need of anything outside of himself, but what you are saying is that God needs to send people to hell for him to achieve more glory for himself. You are right in line with the thinking of the founder of the Catholic church Saint Augustin who spent 10 years as a Manichean Gnostic before he came to the church. You flat out ignore many verses that say God is not willing that any should perish and verses that state man has a responsibility to respond to God, you deny that the Gospel under the drawing of the Holy Spirit has the power to save.
My father had six kids, he didn't but he should have thrown at least 3 or 4 of us out in the street in order to be like your Jesus. If the good Samaritan happened to be your Jesus walking down the road chances are he would have left the beaten man in the ditch.You need to grow up and start preaching the truth not Gnostic heresies.
Your answer is that the god of the bible sends people to eternal suffering just so that he can show off how powerful he is? Why would a good being do that?
And how is it good that you get to experience a more intense feeling of grace at the price of other people experiencing eternal suffering? You're literally describing some dystopian nightmare.
Always fun to watch a Calvinist go through these theological gymnastics in order to justify their views. Thanks for the video.
@Jew and Greek I believe you mean exegesis lol
I didn't hear much exegesis apart from Romans 9:22-23 about wrath. Nothing about "whosoever will" or Jesus dying for the sins of the whole world. He mostly just told us what his theology is. That's not exegesis.
Here is some exegesis then πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων in John 3:16 literally means "everyone believing". There is no Greek equivalent for "whosoever" in the arbitrary sense.
This is consistent with the John 1:12-13 that reveals to us that those who believe are born from God and not the will of man.
I actually like John Piper, even if I disagree with him. But since you took it upon yourself to present the case for the Reformed view I'll respond to you. The issue is free will, regardless of the wording. Does God predestine some for heaven and others for hell, or do we determine our destiny through our choices as "everyone believing" would indicate?
Your reference to John 1:12,13 supports the free will view IMO. "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
Those who receive Him are born of God by choice. Babies born into this world have no choice. Their birth was determined by their parents, so the choice was made for them in contrast to the spiritual birth believers in Jesus experience.
Haha yes I have taken upon myself . Before I respond, I really like John Piper too (especially when it comes to the reformed position) but there are a hand full of things that I do not find my self agreeing with him on such continuationism. If you would like to further the discussion, would you like to have it on private message?