I desagree with Andor not having an arc. At the end of the season, he's changed quite a bit. He's outlook changes drastically, he's effectively radicalized and in the last episode he'd rather die than not fight against the Impire.
I live in Iran and under its Islamic Republic, which honestly almost gives the Empire a run for its money. I don't think any SW project has ever hit this close to home for me; it's no exaggeration to say i'm all but living in the world that Andor shows. Villains like Dedra Meero are the scariest SW villains have been to me, because there are multiple people just like them around or very near me
One thing I like especially about the portrayal of Ferrix is the pride the people have in their home. I see people saying "why don't they all just move out if they don't like their government?". But they don't think about the fact that people have pride in their homeland, their communities, they can love them despite the regimes. Would I want to move away from Finland if we fell under a dictatorship? I would want to work to make things better for my home. And so the funeral march and riot was wonderful to be portrayed in such a way. I would imagine you can relate to it as well.
Whats present elsewhere is prophetic here. I see my country inching in the direction of the Empire slowly but surely, with each passing year. We seem in the USA to have reached a de-fact stalemate, both sides escalating further and faster but neither making any real headway. Is there an idiom in your culture analogous for 'waiting for the other shoe to drop'? Cause here in the States, the first shoe dropped when I was a child, and I have been waiting for the second ever since.
@@josephjarosch8739 Hi Joseph! In the USA also, and agree with with the inching feeling. Still, important to note what we still have now and can hopefully preserve with hard work, and knowledge of all the fascist inclinations and rebellions of our past. Seems like we’re never without them in some way. Meantime it feels like the whole world is inching… Dang, so many thoughts! All I can say here is it’s important to study history, and know very well where the things you are fighting are coming from. Learning how to talk about it with everyone before the whole thing goes to hell is so important. Omg have no idea about Iran. Dear OP, I hope you’re ok. Please be careful.
"He doesn't have all that much of an arc. He's a survivalist. He has a certain sense of honour, he has a certain sense of right and wrong, but he's going to do what will get him to survive the situation he's in. That's kind of just fundamentally who he is, and that never really changes." Until it does.
Andor does go on an Arc. He starts out borrowing money and not having a real purpose. By the finale, he was willing to risk everything for Bix and his friends. He is willing to give him skills to Luthen be because (thanks to Nemek's writings), he is a true believer in the Rebellion.
Who Andor really is changes by the end of the season. Thanks in large part to Maarva and his choices during the finale really illustrate that. He is all in fighting the empire now. He could have left with Bix and the others and tried to keep running and looking out for himself and his friends, but he chose to go to Luthen and take up the cause.
It's great to see a show that doesn't rely on deus-ex-machina magic superheroes to save everything. Real rebellions are built on people. Now if only fascists would be able to understand they are the villains in these stories...
I love how you mention never imagining yourself a Jedi as a child, I’d never thought of that but it really resonates with me. I never imagined being a Jedi or Superman for that matter, I imagined being a rebel, a spy, a shop owner. Andor gives me everything I ever dreamed and more.
I had been excited about Andor since the day they announced the show. I really love Diego Luna his performances are always wonderful and he was why I went to see Rogue One and ended up falling in love with Star Wars. I love the tone and writing of the show and how carefully it was treated. I think Star Wars needs that. People being ready to carefully craft a story they really want to tell.
My grandma told me that when she was a college student in the 30s and a die-hard Socialist, she was absolutely certain there would be (her words) “blood on the ramparts.” That didn’t happen here in the US, but since then in so many places around the world, it did. Sometimes things have gone well, in many cases it was worse than we can imagine. Just thinking, she would have loved Maarva, probably why she’s my favorite character.
For me, too, Andor is exactly what I wanted. Now that I have it, though, the question is how do I turn _having_ something into _doing_ something. To stop at consuming or reviewing or even gushing about the show would run counter to the very thing it tries to tell us: we need to act, concretely, in the real world. For me, it's been getting together with leftists of all stripes into a non-hierarchical action group that organizes regular community-generating events. We looked at what we know and what we have to work with, and ended up with a weekly book cafe that acts as a platform for learning about revolutionary methods, for organizing community support, for sharing resources, for sharing friendship, for antifascist protests. What do you know? Can you cook edible food? Can you grow veggies? Can you wash dishes? Can you babysit? Can you cobble together graphics for advertising irl events? Can you turn your comment writing skills to crafting engaging pamphlets? Can you read theory and teach it to others? Can you distribute leaflets? Can you ask a stranger if they're okay? Can you listen when someone isn't okay? Can you learn? Build community, build trust, build security, build power. All these things are currently denied us by the capitalist system except in exchange for enforcing it. Let's not have Andor be just a show. Let's make it so that future generations can't identify with it the way we can.
Luthens monologue to his ISB mole totally reminded me of the Operative from Serenity. Same idea, "i cant live in the world im trying to build" but luthen is tearing down an empire while the operative is supporting one
Cassian’s arc was arguably him going from passive to active. For most of his life he was a bystander, Maarva took him, Luthen took him, the Empire took him to prison as well. Luthen was arguably the main character since his actions throughout the show influenced the world (or galaxy in this case) around him. BUT, the moment it became Cassian’s show was when HIS plan started to come together, with Luthen on Ferrix (who up until this point held all the cards) being able to do nothing but watch and be inspired by Cassian and his people’s actions.
A quick note about visions, sure it might be annoying they were all about force users, but on another thing... it shows how Japanese culture has impacted star wars and they kinda get to reclaim that with these stories. I'm very excited for Visions season 2 because it's going to be different countries, I think there is still another one from Japan though. So I hope we get to see these countries' cultures become part of star wars and that it isn't all jedi and force users again.
I absolutely love hearing your thoughts on this show. Andor is absolutely phenomenal. Im a huge fan of the SW books, and this show feels alot like them in certain ways. Being able to dig into one particular aspect of the galaxy and really exploring it to it's fullest. This show has made me feel so excited for Star Wars in a way that the other shows haven't really done for me. The books and comics though have had me hooked for years now, mostly because of the diversity of writers and therefore the stories that are told.
Great rundown. I dunno if I was following you yet when the poll ran, but I definitely fall into the “last Jedi was meh” but loved Andor category, for most of the points you’ve brought up. These character arcs and the pressures to exist on the edge of conformity while working to tear down the oppressive structures was so much more captivating and fulfilling to watch. And that speech from Mama-Andor was so good! This series took so many turns that I seriously had no idea why they were visiting all these different mini-storylines, but then the way it ties up after the prison break, and showing the inevitable rebellion that comes when the oppression reaches that point of “too much,” that it becomes impossible to keep a blind eye to all the wrongs being committed. Never thought I’d see a Disney production critique the prison industrial complex and its systemic pathway of creating career criminals and an inescapable pipeline of what amounts to indentured servitude/slavery in a new package. Just wow. Love it
In addition to everything you said here, this series is not only awesome, the context it provides and world building it provides instantly upgrades every other part of the franchise. We care a lot more about the rebellion in this franchise because of this series.
I was not expecting Andor. I knew Tony Gilroy would probably make it worthwhile, so I dug in for the first five episodes and then 🤯 Since I saw the season finale, I’ve watched it all back and about half the episodes are now pushing me close to tears, now I know the destination, in the same way that Casablanca does every damn time I watch it (about x100). I’m gonna have real trouble watching Andor in company, but its cathartic & I need it.
Empire is my favorite. Nostalgia plays a big part in that tho. But yeah I agree I like how both movies challenge you. Plus Luke’s downfall was a big draw for me as a Dune fan. I’m just a fan of heroes who don’t live up to the legend but in Luke’s case he still found a way to go out on top and that was so good. I’ll never forgive TROS for squandering what was set up in TLJ.
Excellent video. I always enjoyed hearing your thoughts on each episode. As for Andor, it’s so good! I do like Last Jedi, but Andor really hits home it’s points! You are correct on them and I’m happy you enjoyed watching it. Now we wait for season two
I watched all of Andor not that long ago, (it was phenomenal!), and the one thought that struck me was just how much this show felt like a spiritual successor to Firefly. This is exactly what I would have loved to see Firefly develop into had it survived a full season, let alone several.
Great video. I agree with everything you said. Andor was got the "show me don't tell me" thing just right. Especially that last episode. This is what Disney plus should be about. Looking into aspects of the story in more detail and leave the jedi and spectical to the movies.
You are so right about the TLJ. I liked it for the ideas and philosophy but yes, it fell a little short in terms of execution. I was disappointed that TRoS completely subverted what was good about TLJ. I loved Andor so I’m with the majority of your poll responders. Andor does it right.
as much as I dislike what the film did with luke... and it can make my blood boil. at least Unlike the nostalgia bate in Mando and Boba Fett, he did something with him more than, Look we have him here be happy.
Excellent analysis. SW has always been a reflection of the time it is produced and Andor is both a lesson from real history and a cautionary tale for our times, all wrapped up in the skin of the familiar galaxy far far away…
I really liked Rogue One, and am very intrigued from what I have been hearing about Andor. It sounds a lot like Blake's 7. Which is funny because Blake's 7, whilst a Space Opera adventure at heart, was pretty much the antithesis of SW in nearly everything from theme, character and tone. Unlike the more consolatory universe of SW, Blake's 7 was always morally murky and pessimistic for all the efforts of the titular hero and his memorable crew. The show also had the courage to actually allow its anti fascist heroes to fail, which was pretty original in a genre that only allows for optimism.
I am a Blake's 7 fan, and another fellow B7 fan made this point as well. It hadn't occurred to me at first, but Andor and B7 do have a lot in common in terms of being willing to take a deep, dark-gray dive into fascism and resisting it.
Most of _Star Wars_ are action films or shows with a little bit of drama thrown in. Andor is a very dramatic show with a little bit of action added in. If you want a lot of action, the show may not be for you, but as a dramatic series, the show knocks it out of the park! Cassian Andor reminds me a bit of Tom Joad from _The Grapes of Wrath_ .
Andor and The Grapes of Wrath have the interesting, and rare, characteristic in common of having a strong, healthy mother-adult son relationship at the core of them. It's a strength in the storytelling of both.
@@arwenspicer Yes, I agree. In addition to that, both _The Grapes of Wrath_ and _Andor_ had a messenger character besides the main character's parent. In TGoW it was Tom's friend Jim Casy, in _Andor_ it was Karis Nemik. In both stories, the messenger dies leaving the main character needing to carry on. Besides the words of Maarva, Cassian was given Karis's manifesto.
Glad to hear this perspective in comparison to Last Jedi, you’re completely on point that ANDOR is a great example of how those type of ideas work and gel so much better in long-form format, away from the spectacle of the main series.
Quite agree on many counts. While I haven't been as worn down by Star Wars over the last years (didn't hate the sequels as much as many people, even RoS), I did feel some disappointment with The Mandalorian season 2 as it seemed to stuff too more fan-service/lore stuff that made the universe feel way too small (and I really hated the big ending cameo which people seemed to love, in some cases for the same reason I hated it) and made it look like they were just prepping a bunch of spinoffs. Bad Batch & Book of Boba Fett never quite scratched the itch (they were fine in a pinch, not bad but not what I wanted, and Boba went downhill). Andor promised something I was interested in: a very different focus that felt very different and they delivered that an more, but in a more methodical, planned, and contemplative manner than any other Star Wars (yes, it felt moreso than any of the films). I look forward to the second season, especially as it is already planned out (and with the intention that this'll be it for Andor), which shall hopefully prevent some of the pitfalls of so many other series that pull off such a fantastic debut season: not having truly thought out how to follow that up and where to go - there's a roadmap and even an ending we already know looming.
the Mandalorian is still a Fandom rollercoaster of familiar easter eggs the only thing that separates itself from Kenobi or Boba Fett is the titular character, he's someone we don't know doing things we recognise.
my problem with the nostalgia stuff in Mandalorian was that it was just Bait... Nothing substantial was done with the characters other than look we have them for a scene... Like If your not gonna take a character to new territory I'd rather them not used at all. as much as I dislike what Ryan Johnson did with Luke... at least he did SOMETHING with him
Great video and the points you make about Andor is the very thing that makes it so brilliant. You’re right- it is one of the best examination of fascism and done in such an accessible way in the context of a popular culture juggernaut like Star Wars. It’s genius and phenomenal.
I'm late here, took me awhile to get to Andor. I have been following your channel for a long time starting with Dr who and I really feel like you would love clone wars - I hope you watch it someday even if it's during retirement or something!
I saw a change in Andor but not relaly the development in him for that change, personally it's the only low point. I think he did change, but I did not see how enough. There's been moments, but as you said because we did not dive in him that deep it felt... glossed over nearly. Which maybe is part of it all, had meaning in itself, or maybe we'll have more in s2. I don't know. Because as you said each moments that could have been for him where used to show others or other things. "by him" instead of "for him". I don't see how it could have been done differently, but I do have that ambivalent feeling of just a lack of idk depth, or time. maybe a little bit longer to have a few more minutes to go though him really. just a bit. I don't know. I loved the show nonetheless.
I appreciate Rogue One conceptually and I still enjoy the third act, however after rewatching it several times I feel that it's very flawed in execution and marred with ham-fisted fan service, especially in its first two acts. I agree, Andor the series paints a far more sophisticated meaningful allegory of an authoritarian regime relative to all the other Star Wars depictions, including Rogue One's. Andor improves on every fundamental level of character, world, and tension building. Its fan service is intelligent and organic and its production design even gives Rogue One's a run for its money. Then there's Andor's original synthy musical motifs vs Rogue One's faux Williams... Fuggedaboutit!
I enjoyed this show a lot although it moved a tad slow for me. But it was a great study on fascism and the sacrifices people make to fight it, which won’t always lead to happy endings. Which I think was the whole point of the narrative. I enjoyed this aspect of SW that doesn’t rely on Jedi, or the Force, or Galaxy-level stakes. Just a rebellion building from the ground up with common, non-super powered people. It was different, and it made the SW universe feel more real than it has in a long time. I’m glad this show is getting some love. And a second season 😉.
Actually☝️🤓 Andor has an arc. He is someone who doesnt care at the begining, but everything he goes throug, every person he met makes him care and join the rebelion.
I like The Mandalorian and Kenobi, but I get where you're coming from with the "can we get away from the force and the Jedi every now and then?" feeling, we could do with some world building that doesn't rely on too much knowledge from previous projects and acknowledge that while the Jedi and Sith are there in the same world they are not the ONLY thing fighting the fight in this world
Apropos of nothing: I finally got around to reading your book and it was great! (Loved the Easter Egg at the end of Chapter 25 too!). But yes, 'Andor' might be the best bit of Star Wars storytelling every put on screen.
Haven’t watched Andor (don’t have Disney Plus, but also just not that interested, I only watch the movies) but… I still think it’s The Last Jedi. Just my opinion. Also, damn, I’m really impressed that this series has somehow united people on being great. Like… damn. How? This is impossible.
Your explanation of what Luthan is like reminds me a lot of why I love Steven Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising. Using the tools of his enemy to defeat said enemy. He understands that, but he realises that it has to be this way.
I'm done with Star Wars. Luckily for me, Andor transcends the franchise. I just watched House of the Dragon a couple weeks ago. I said: I'm not going to see a better show than that in 2022. Andor looked directly into my soul and said "Hold my beer."
To hear the background on the project it we kind of lucked out. Tony Gilroy pitched the show, Disney tried to make other stories work, development went nowhere, they came back to Gilroy because they’d already announced the show would be made and needed something.
Agreed. More substantial than Mandalorian. I have a initial skepticism of prequels. So you’d think a prequel of a prequel would hold little appeal but this was so high quality, so well put together…its a friggin masterpiece. The fact that this isn’t universally loved and huge hit is disappointing. If you took out the “Star Wars” background, this would be considered an adult sci-fi classic.
Luthen probably does care for the people he's moving about, and suffers deep inside about them. It's only that he cares about his objectives and goals more. Really, Andor has been great, and Cassian Andor as a character does have some growth, maybe not a tremendous one, but... By the way, may I compliment you on your mouth and teeth? I was very attentive to what you were saying, reading your lips (so to speak), and I got distracted thinking what a beautiful mouth you have. Mine is horrible, that's why I notice. My eyes are nice, though.
Clone Wars and Rebels will change things for you, especially after Season 3 of Clone Wars. I understand it seems daunting, but some of the best stories are there. The best Palpatine fight. The best explanation of The Force. Obi Wan has a backstory romance. Even Yoda has an in depth arc. There is a list of stories by arc that is very helpful. It made me appreciate the Prequels. Andor has been brilliant, the Sequels were just okay.
Reel had even the arc of the oficer thy manage to win over, an while ezra tarts as rebelious pupil, h plays so well of kanaan, who is great, becaue he is a jedi escaoped but gone by in addition with hra, who is great an his conflict. And how scary the normalish human thawne is . I think rebel is really good.
The allegory to creeping fascism in the US, and the way it forces the viewer to reflect on our own choices, can’t be avoided. Like the greatest sci-fi does. Do we share our dreams with ghosts, as Luther done? Could we make that sacrifice?
@@CouncilofGeeks It's a theory to explain why Luthen has so many Sith and Jedi artifacts. There's the Kyber crystal he gives to Cassian as a down payment. He's got holocrons of both sides. He has the Sith armor in his shop from The Force Unleashed.
as far as the movies go my personal list goes as followed Empire The Last Jedi New Hope Return of the Jedi Force Awakens Revenge of the Sith Solo The Phantom menace Rise of Skywalker Attack of the Clones. As far the the shows go Andor mandalorian Clone Wars Rebels Bad Batch Obi Wan Book of Bobba Fett
Vera, LET ME BE HONEST. When this video started I was like: "they've gone mad, this the weirdest take." I was ready to ask what's next, a Harry Potter show about the muggle girl who works at the coffee shop next to the Ministry of Magic trying to balance her muggle job, muggle studies and her muggle boyfriend Steve who has a band and is at that time in his life where he has to choose to whether to settle down or leave London to follow his dreams... BUT... I'm intrigued now. I HATED the Last Jedi from top to bottom, I hated EVERY SINGLE SECOND of that movie right after the light saber toss, and the first time I watched Andor, I could finish the first episode. But ok, I'm gonna give it a second chance, even if I have to keep my finger on the "skip 10 seconds" button.
Thats twhat th antastic beast movies missed, newts charm, he is just a dude. Who like animals and liks to help misunderstood animals. Who drags in a dude , a friend , who also is just a good person. you can even have queenie who is just a , ok you can do a decent starcrossed lovers there.
What I love most about Andor is it shows realistically what's necessary to defeat fascists. It's an incredibly dangerous concept to teach the masses (if you want to uphold our right wing capitalist system of imperialism) and I was shocked to see Disney put this out there so boldly.
Gotta say I kinda respected the gall of putting those ideas in the middle of the big tentpole trilogy, it was a feature rather than a bug for me, but it's a lot less satisfying in retrospect due to the structure(lessness) of that trilogy.
Totalitarian regimes and actual resistance to them always were the most interesting parts of the StarWars for me, so i absolutely loved the show. But if you are more into action or Force staff than it might be not for you, yeah.
@@CouncilofGeeks I mean, yeah there's a lot of overlap of course. Fascist dictatorships are a subtype of totalitarian dictatorship. I'm wondering of the Empire has the *other* characteristic necessary to describe it as such in the text of the movies and shows. Lindsay Ellis has a good video analyzing the the first order and discussing how iconography from real fascist regimes can be used to make a fictional society appear more fascist than it really is when you look at their beliefs and the way the society actually runs. All this said, even if the Galactic Empire isn't technically fascistic within the text of the show, I still think Andor works as anti-fascist entertainment with the empire as more of a metaphor for fascism.
@@CouncilofGeeks Sorry if it seemed like I implied that you were intending to attack me. It was for the toxic "fans" who might attack me. Hope this explained it. Have a good day.
@@bruceivey8812 Then you missed that most good of the trilogy, is the politics. And yeah did you not like the empire trikes back?! Which shows like how lando just wanting to stay out, gets screwed over, and looses what he cares, Sriously original starwars is very opressive an hopeless at times, like here.
I desagree with Andor not having an arc.
At the end of the season, he's changed quite a bit. He's outlook changes drastically, he's effectively radicalized and in the last episode he'd rather die than not fight against the Impire.
Andor even goes through the hero's journey and everything.
I live in Iran and under its Islamic Republic, which honestly almost gives the Empire a run for its money. I don't think any SW project has ever hit this close to home for me; it's no exaggeration to say i'm all but living in the world that Andor shows. Villains like Dedra Meero are the scariest SW villains have been to me, because there are multiple people just like them around or very near me
One thing I like especially about the portrayal of Ferrix is the pride the people have in their home. I see people saying "why don't they all just move out if they don't like their government?". But they don't think about the fact that people have pride in their homeland, their communities, they can love them despite the regimes. Would I want to move away from Finland if we fell under a dictatorship? I would want to work to make things better for my home. And so the funeral march and riot was wonderful to be portrayed in such a way. I would imagine you can relate to it as well.
Whats present elsewhere is prophetic here. I see my country inching in the direction of the Empire slowly but surely, with each passing year. We seem in the USA to have reached a de-fact stalemate, both sides escalating further and faster but neither making any real headway.
Is there an idiom in your culture analogous for 'waiting for the other shoe to drop'? Cause here in the States, the first shoe dropped when I was a child, and I have been waiting for the second ever since.
@@josephjarosch8739 Hi Joseph! In the USA also, and agree with with the inching feeling. Still, important to note what we still have now and can hopefully preserve with hard work, and knowledge of all the fascist inclinations and rebellions of our past. Seems like we’re never without them in some way. Meantime it feels like the whole world is inching…
Dang, so many thoughts! All I can say here is it’s important to study history, and know very well where the things you are fighting are coming from. Learning how to talk about it with everyone before the whole thing goes to hell is so important.
Omg have no idea about Iran. Dear OP, I hope you’re ok. Please be careful.
Be safe. Sounds awful.
Can you get Disney+ in Iran?
"He doesn't have all that much of an arc. He's a survivalist. He has a certain sense of honour, he has a certain sense of right and wrong, but he's going to do what will get him to survive the situation he's in. That's kind of just fundamentally who he is, and that never really changes."
Until it does.
Andor does go on an Arc. He starts out borrowing money and not having a real purpose. By the finale, he was willing to risk everything for Bix and his friends. He is willing to give him skills to Luthen be because (thanks to Nemek's writings), he is a true believer in the Rebellion.
Who Andor really is changes by the end of the season. Thanks in large part to Maarva and his choices during the finale really illustrate that. He is all in fighting the empire now. He could have left with Bix and the others and tried to keep running and looking out for himself and his friends, but he chose to go to Luthen and take up the cause.
Marva and andor is basically the rule of two. She is the jedi and he is the apprentice. I love it.
It's great to see a show that doesn't rely on deus-ex-machina magic superheroes to save everything. Real rebellions are built on people.
Now if only fascists would be able to understand they are the villains in these stories...
I love how you mention never imagining yourself a Jedi as a child, I’d never thought of that but it really resonates with me. I never imagined being a Jedi or Superman for that matter, I imagined being a rebel, a spy, a shop owner. Andor gives me everything I ever dreamed and more.
I had been excited about Andor since the day they announced the show. I really love Diego Luna his performances are always wonderful and he was why I went to see Rogue One and ended up falling in love with Star Wars. I love the tone and writing of the show and how carefully it was treated. I think Star Wars needs that. People being ready to carefully craft a story they really want to tell.
My grandma told me that when she was a college student in the 30s and a die-hard Socialist, she was absolutely certain there would be (her words) “blood on the ramparts.” That didn’t happen here in the US, but since then in so many places around the world, it did. Sometimes things have gone well, in many cases it was worse than we can imagine. Just thinking, she would have loved Maarva, probably why she’s my favorite character.
For me, too, Andor is exactly what I wanted. Now that I have it, though, the question is how do I turn _having_ something into _doing_ something. To stop at consuming or reviewing or even gushing about the show would run counter to the very thing it tries to tell us: we need to act, concretely, in the real world.
For me, it's been getting together with leftists of all stripes into a non-hierarchical action group that organizes regular community-generating events. We looked at what we know and what we have to work with, and ended up with a weekly book cafe that acts as a platform for learning about revolutionary methods, for organizing community support, for sharing resources, for sharing friendship, for antifascist protests.
What do you know? Can you cook edible food? Can you grow veggies? Can you wash dishes? Can you babysit? Can you cobble together graphics for advertising irl events? Can you turn your comment writing skills to crafting engaging pamphlets? Can you read theory and teach it to others? Can you distribute leaflets? Can you ask a stranger if they're okay? Can you listen when someone isn't okay? Can you learn?
Build community, build trust, build security, build power. All these things are currently denied us by the capitalist system except in exchange for enforcing it.
Let's not have Andor be just a show. Let's make it so that future generations can't identify with it the way we can.
Luthens monologue to his ISB mole totally reminded me of the Operative from Serenity. Same idea, "i cant live in the world im trying to build" but luthen is tearing down an empire while the operative is supporting one
Cassian’s arc was arguably him going from passive to active. For most of his life he was a bystander, Maarva took him, Luthen took him, the Empire took him to prison as well.
Luthen was arguably the main character since his actions throughout the show influenced the world (or galaxy in this case) around him. BUT, the moment it became Cassian’s show was when HIS plan started to come together, with Luthen on Ferrix (who up until this point held all the cards) being able to do nothing but watch and be inspired by Cassian and his people’s actions.
A quick note about visions, sure it might be annoying they were all about force users, but on another thing... it shows how Japanese culture has impacted star wars and they kinda get to reclaim that with these stories. I'm very excited for Visions season 2 because it's going to be different countries, I think there is still another one from Japan though. So I hope we get to see these countries' cultures become part of star wars and that it isn't all jedi and force users again.
I absolutely love hearing your thoughts on this show. Andor is absolutely phenomenal.
Im a huge fan of the SW books, and this show feels alot like them in certain ways. Being able to dig into one particular aspect of the galaxy and really exploring it to it's fullest.
This show has made me feel so excited for Star Wars in a way that the other shows haven't really done for me. The books and comics though have had me hooked for years now, mostly because of the diversity of writers and therefore the stories that are told.
Great rundown. I dunno if I was following you yet when the poll ran, but I definitely fall into the “last Jedi was meh” but loved Andor category, for most of the points you’ve brought up. These character arcs and the pressures to exist on the edge of conformity while working to tear down the oppressive structures was so much more captivating and fulfilling to watch. And that speech from Mama-Andor was so good! This series took so many turns that I seriously had no idea why they were visiting all these different mini-storylines, but then the way it ties up after the prison break, and showing the inevitable rebellion that comes when the oppression reaches that point of “too much,” that it becomes impossible to keep a blind eye to all the wrongs being committed. Never thought I’d see a Disney production critique the prison industrial complex and its systemic pathway of creating career criminals and an inescapable pipeline of what amounts to indentured servitude/slavery in a new package. Just wow. Love it
In addition to everything you said here, this series is not only awesome, the context it provides and world building it provides instantly upgrades every other part of the franchise. We care a lot more about the rebellion in this franchise because of this series.
Andor and The Last Jedi are my 2 favourite Star Wars things.
I was not expecting Andor. I knew Tony Gilroy would probably make it worthwhile, so I dug in for the first five episodes and then 🤯
Since I saw the season finale, I’ve watched it all back and about half the episodes are now pushing me close to tears, now I know the destination, in the same way that Casablanca does every damn time I watch it (about x100).
I’m gonna have real trouble watching Andor in company, but its cathartic & I need it.
How has it been almost 2 years since Andor ended?!
Last Jedi is my 2nd favorite of the main 9 and I frickin’ loved Andor.
Empire is my favorite. Nostalgia plays a big part in that tho. But yeah I agree I like how both movies challenge you. Plus Luke’s downfall was a big draw for me as a Dune fan. I’m just a fan of heroes who don’t live up to the legend but in Luke’s case he still found a way to go out on top and that was so good. I’ll never forgive TROS for squandering what was set up in TLJ.
“You are the functions…I’m just running the dictatorship”
Excellent video. I always enjoyed hearing your thoughts on each episode. As for Andor, it’s so good! I do like Last Jedi, but Andor really hits home it’s points! You are correct on them and I’m happy you enjoyed watching it. Now we wait for season two
Always enjoy your reviews!
Thank you so much!
I watched all of Andor not that long ago, (it was phenomenal!), and the one thought that struck me was just how much this show felt like a spiritual successor to Firefly. This is exactly what I would have loved to see Firefly develop into had it survived a full season, let alone several.
Cassian doesn't change????? Yes, he does.
Great video. I agree with everything you said. Andor was got the "show me don't tell me" thing just right. Especially that last episode. This is what Disney plus should be about. Looking into aspects of the story in more detail and leave the jedi and spectical to the movies.
You are so right about the TLJ. I liked it for the ideas and philosophy but yes, it fell a little short in terms of execution. I was disappointed that TRoS completely subverted what was good about TLJ. I loved Andor so I’m with the majority of your poll responders. Andor does it right.
as much as I dislike what the film did with luke... and it can make my blood boil.
at least Unlike the nostalgia bate in Mando and Boba Fett, he did something with him more than, Look we have him here be happy.
Yeah I would've been fine with TLJ if not for Rise's back pedaling
Love it! Between this and the one @JessieGender has coming out, I’m so glad I finished up Andor Yesterday!!!
Excellent analysis. SW has always been a reflection of the time it is produced and Andor is both a lesson from real history and a cautionary tale for our times, all wrapped up in the skin of the familiar galaxy far far away…
I really liked Rogue One, and am very intrigued from what I have been hearing about Andor. It sounds a lot like Blake's 7. Which is funny because Blake's 7, whilst a Space Opera adventure at heart, was pretty much the antithesis of SW in nearly everything from theme, character and tone. Unlike the more consolatory universe of SW, Blake's 7 was always morally murky and pessimistic for all the efforts of the titular hero and his memorable crew. The show also had the courage to actually allow its anti fascist heroes to fail, which was pretty original in a genre that only allows for optimism.
I am a Blake's 7 fan, and another fellow B7 fan made this point as well. It hadn't occurred to me at first, but Andor and B7 do have a lot in common in terms of being willing to take a deep, dark-gray dive into fascism and resisting it.
Most of _Star Wars_ are action films or shows with a little bit of drama thrown in. Andor is a very dramatic show with a little bit of action added in. If you want a lot of action, the show may not be for you, but as a dramatic series, the show knocks it out of the park!
Cassian Andor reminds me a bit of Tom Joad from _The Grapes of Wrath_ .
Andor and The Grapes of Wrath have the interesting, and rare, characteristic in common of having a strong, healthy mother-adult son relationship at the core of them. It's a strength in the storytelling of both.
@@arwenspicer Yes, I agree. In addition to that, both _The Grapes of Wrath_ and _Andor_ had a messenger character besides the main character's parent. In TGoW it was Tom's friend Jim Casy, in _Andor_ it was Karis Nemik. In both stories, the messenger dies leaving the main character needing to carry on. Besides the words of Maarva, Cassian was given Karis's manifesto.
Damn, I really need to get to this show...
Yeah you do.
@@CouncilofGeeks Go easy on me, Coursework and projects kept me, hostage
Glad to hear this perspective in comparison to Last Jedi, you’re completely on point that ANDOR is a great example of how those type of ideas work and gel so much better in long-form format, away from the spectacle of the main series.
Quite agree on many counts. While I haven't been as worn down by Star Wars over the last years (didn't hate the sequels as much as many people, even RoS), I did feel some disappointment with The Mandalorian season 2 as it seemed to stuff too more fan-service/lore stuff that made the universe feel way too small (and I really hated the big ending cameo which people seemed to love, in some cases for the same reason I hated it) and made it look like they were just prepping a bunch of spinoffs. Bad Batch & Book of Boba Fett never quite scratched the itch (they were fine in a pinch, not bad but not what I wanted, and Boba went downhill). Andor promised something I was interested in: a very different focus that felt very different and they delivered that an more, but in a more methodical, planned, and contemplative manner than any other Star Wars (yes, it felt moreso than any of the films). I look forward to the second season, especially as it is already planned out (and with the intention that this'll be it for Andor), which shall hopefully prevent some of the pitfalls of so many other series that pull off such a fantastic debut season: not having truly thought out how to follow that up and where to go - there's a roadmap and even an ending we already know looming.
the Mandalorian is still a Fandom rollercoaster of familiar easter eggs the only thing that separates itself from Kenobi or Boba Fett is the titular character, he's someone we don't know doing things we recognise.
my problem with the nostalgia stuff in Mandalorian was that it was just Bait... Nothing substantial was done with the characters other than look we have them for a scene...
Like If your not gonna take a character to new territory I'd rather them not used at all.
as much as I dislike what Ryan Johnson did with Luke... at least he did SOMETHING with him
Agreed
Best Star Wars for me in a long time.
Already started a rewatch
Great video and the points you make about Andor is the very thing that makes it so brilliant. You’re right- it is one of the best examination of fascism and done in such an accessible way in the context of a popular culture juggernaut like Star Wars. It’s genius and phenomenal.
I'm late here, took me awhile to get to Andor. I have been following your channel for a long time starting with Dr who and I really feel like you would love clone wars - I hope you watch it someday even if it's during retirement or something!
I know what you mean by not caring about the Jedi... for me when I hear star wars the first thing I think of is Clone Troopers
I saw a change in Andor but not relaly the development in him for that change, personally it's the only low point. I think he did change, but I did not see how enough. There's been moments, but as you said because we did not dive in him that deep it felt... glossed over nearly. Which maybe is part of it all, had meaning in itself, or maybe we'll have more in s2. I don't know. Because as you said each moments that could have been for him where used to show others or other things. "by him" instead of "for him".
I don't see how it could have been done differently, but I do have that ambivalent feeling of just a lack of idk depth, or time. maybe a little bit longer to have a few more minutes to go though him really. just a bit. I don't know.
I loved the show nonetheless.
I appreciate Rogue One conceptually and I still enjoy the third act, however after rewatching it several times I feel that it's very flawed in execution and marred with ham-fisted fan service, especially in its first two acts. I agree, Andor the series paints a far more sophisticated meaningful allegory of an authoritarian regime relative to all the other Star Wars depictions, including Rogue One's. Andor improves on every fundamental level of character, world, and tension building. Its fan service is intelligent and organic and its production design even gives Rogue One's a run for its money. Then there's Andor's original synthy musical motifs vs Rogue One's faux Williams... Fuggedaboutit!
I enjoyed this show a lot although it moved a tad slow for me. But it was a great study on fascism and the sacrifices people make to fight it, which won’t always lead to happy endings. Which I think was the whole point of the narrative. I enjoyed this aspect of SW that doesn’t rely on Jedi, or the Force, or Galaxy-level stakes. Just a rebellion building from the ground up with common, non-super powered people. It was different, and it made the SW universe feel more real than it has in a long time. I’m glad this show is getting some love. And a second season 😉.
Actually☝️🤓 Andor has an arc. He is someone who doesnt care at the begining, but everything he goes throug, every person he met makes him care and join the rebelion.
I like The Mandalorian and Kenobi, but I get where you're coming from with the "can we get away from the force and the Jedi every now and then?" feeling, we could do with some world building that doesn't rely on too much knowledge from previous projects and acknowledge that while the Jedi and Sith are there in the same world they are not the ONLY thing fighting the fight in this world
Apropos of nothing: I finally got around to reading your book and it was great! (Loved the Easter Egg at the end of Chapter 25 too!).
But yes, 'Andor' might be the best bit of Star Wars storytelling every put on screen.
Part of my wondered if that eastern egg was too obvious. But I’m glad I left it in. It makes me smile.
how far will evil go to get what it wants?.....Andor shows a small layer of that, but it was a great snap shot of it
Haven’t watched Andor (don’t have Disney Plus, but also just not that interested, I only watch the movies) but… I still think it’s The Last Jedi. Just my opinion.
Also, damn, I’m really impressed that this series has somehow united people on being great. Like… damn. How? This is impossible.
Your explanation of what Luthan is like reminds me a lot of why I love Steven Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising. Using the tools of his enemy to defeat said enemy. He understands that, but he realises that it has to be this way.
I'm done with Star Wars. Luckily for me, Andor transcends the franchise. I just watched House of the Dragon a couple weeks ago. I said: I'm not going to see a better show than that in 2022. Andor looked directly into my soul and said "Hold my beer."
Tbh I can't believe Disney let us see Andor, but I'm so grateful for it
To hear the background on the project it we kind of lucked out. Tony Gilroy pitched the show, Disney tried to make other stories work, development went nowhere, they came back to Gilroy because they’d already announced the show would be made and needed something.
Agreed. More substantial than Mandalorian. I have a initial skepticism of prequels. So you’d think a prequel of a prequel would hold little appeal but this was so high quality, so well put together…its a friggin masterpiece. The fact that this isn’t universally loved and huge hit is disappointing. If you took out the “Star Wars” background, this would be considered an adult sci-fi classic.
Luthen probably does care for the people he's moving about, and suffers deep inside about them. It's only that he cares about his objectives and goals more.
Really, Andor has been great, and Cassian Andor as a character does have some growth, maybe not a tremendous one, but...
By the way, may I compliment you on your mouth and teeth? I was very attentive to what you were saying, reading your lips (so to speak), and I got distracted thinking what a beautiful mouth you have. Mine is horrible, that's why I notice. My eyes are nice, though.
Totally agree with the title of this video.
Andor is great but the final arch of Clone Wars still tops my list
Clone Wars and Rebels will change things for you, especially after Season 3 of Clone Wars. I understand it seems daunting, but some of the best stories are there. The best Palpatine fight. The best explanation of The Force. Obi Wan has a backstory romance. Even Yoda has an in depth arc. There is a list of stories by arc that is very helpful. It made me appreciate the Prequels. Andor has been brilliant, the Sequels were just okay.
Reel had even the arc of the oficer thy manage to win over, an while ezra tarts as rebelious pupil, h plays so well of kanaan, who is great, becaue he is a jedi escaoped but gone by in addition with hra, who is great an his conflict.
And how scary the normalish human thawne is . I think rebel is really good.
As someone with extremely limited free time, I hope you can at least appreciate that “oh it gets good after three seasons” is a tough sell.
The allegory to creeping fascism in the US, and the way it forces the viewer to reflect on our own choices, can’t be avoided. Like the greatest sci-fi does. Do we share our dreams with ghosts, as Luther done? Could we make that sacrifice?
I'm guessing Vera doesn't subscribe to the Luthen was a jedi theory
I’m sorry… the WHAT?!?!?
@@CouncilofGeeks It's a theory to explain why Luthen has so many Sith and Jedi artifacts. There's the Kyber crystal he gives to Cassian as a down payment. He's got holocrons of both sides. He has the Sith armor in his shop from The Force Unleashed.
as far as the movies go my personal list goes as followed
Empire
The Last Jedi
New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Phantom menace
Rise of Skywalker
Attack of the Clones.
As far the the shows go
Andor
mandalorian
Clone Wars
Rebels
Bad Batch
Obi Wan
Book of Bobba Fett
Where does Rogue one sit in your list?
Vera, LET ME BE HONEST. When this video started I was like: "they've gone mad, this the weirdest take." I was ready to ask what's next, a Harry Potter show about the muggle girl who works at the coffee shop next to the Ministry of Magic trying to balance her muggle job, muggle studies and her muggle boyfriend Steve who has a band and is at that time in his life where he has to choose to whether to settle down or leave London to follow his dreams... BUT... I'm intrigued now. I HATED the Last Jedi from top to bottom, I hated EVERY SINGLE SECOND of that movie right after the light saber toss, and the first time I watched Andor, I could finish the first episode. But ok, I'm gonna give it a second chance, even if I have to keep my finger on the "skip 10 seconds" button.
Thats twhat th antastic beast movies missed, newts charm, he is just a dude. Who like animals and liks to help misunderstood animals. Who drags in a dude , a friend , who also is just a good person. you can even have queenie who is just a , ok you can do a decent starcrossed lovers there.
What I love most about Andor is it shows realistically what's necessary to defeat fascists. It's an incredibly dangerous concept to teach the masses (if you want to uphold our right wing capitalist system of imperialism) and I was shocked to see Disney put this out there so boldly.
Yeah I like both TLJ and Andor but basically agree with this
Gotta say I kinda respected the gall of putting those ideas in the middle of the big tentpole trilogy, it was a feature rather than a bug for me, but it's a lot less satisfying in retrospect due to the structure(lessness) of that trilogy.
Totalitarian regimes and actual resistance to them always were the most interesting parts of the StarWars for me, so i absolutely loved the show. But if you are more into action or Force staff than it might be not for you, yeah.
Why qualify it with a time frame?
Is the Empire actually fascist or just totalitarian?
Firstly, that's a venn diagram with a LOT of overlap. Secondly, yes it's fascist.
@@CouncilofGeeks I mean, yeah there's a lot of overlap of course. Fascist dictatorships are a subtype of totalitarian dictatorship. I'm wondering of the Empire has the *other* characteristic necessary to describe it as such in the text of the movies and shows.
Lindsay Ellis has a good video analyzing the the first order and discussing how iconography from real fascist regimes can be used to make a fictional society appear more fascist than it really is when you look at their beliefs and the way the society actually runs.
All this said, even if the Galactic Empire isn't technically fascistic within the text of the show, I still think Andor works as anti-fascist entertainment with the empire as more of a metaphor for fascism.
Haven't watched it because I don't care about Star wars and never have. Please don't attack me I'm just saying my opinion.
Why would I attack you for that? You're not required to care about Star Wars.
@@CouncilofGeeks Sorry if it seemed like I implied that you were intending to attack me. It was for the toxic "fans" who might attack me. Hope this explained it. Have a good day.
But if youcare about examinations about fashism you might? No judgement :P You really only ned to know its an evil empire.
It was boring and did not feel like Star Wars.
Wow. So you have never watched the 1977 original movie then?
@@Carabas72 You mean the one that was fun and actually had action? yes I have seen it.
@@bruceivey8812 Then you missed that most good of the trilogy, is the politics.
And yeah did you not like the empire trikes back?! Which shows like how lando just wanting to stay out, gets screwed over, and looses what he cares,
Sriously original starwars is very opressive an hopeless at times, like here.
Hell no. Why did we even need a series about the creepiest guy in rogue one?
How is Andor creepy..??
Meh.
Prefer animated stuff.
Tales Of The Jedi was fun, this was just boring.