@ He does, but that doesn't mean most women find him as the ideal. Look at Isaac Newton and Nietzsche, both died without ever procreating, huge waste of genetic potential.
I think that's a popular outcome. I became a disciple immediately and have not heard him say much to make me change my mind. An excellent mind, and perhaps more excitingly, an excellent and self-aware mind.
I wish he had his own podcast!! Where can we get more of Joscha?? Also, I would love a whole list of book recommendations. It's unbelievable the conclusions this man reaches and the clarity in his ideas and his thought process.
If he isn't the smartest guy on Earth, then he's among the small group of people who could be. The more interviews of Joscha, the better. Listening to him expands my mind in a good way.
rate quilibrium constant rate constant of reaction k equal s a e 0 Ea/RT units/ arrow increaswes with concentration a t equal temp the transition state hasgreater energy than both reactants and products
He's pretty much saying what we've always known, we are creating our story, and you can pretty much do anything you want with the right attitude towards it. He's just breaking down the mathematics of it
Bach is an amazing thinker, I wish I could "see the matrix" like he does for just one day. And still he's able to clearly communicate even the most complex things. Yes, it is demanding to follow him, but that only makes me dig deeper into the subject on my own. That imho is science at its best!
I am not sure where he is going with this...it appears that he wishes to leave intelligence to cybernetic life to take over from biological life...but without consciousness is there a point to this?
@@bradmodd7856 I don't think it's what he wishes, but rather what he predicts will happen... the way person predicts that a ball thrown up into the air, will slow and fall down to the ground.
@@squarerootof2 Congratulations, you understood Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Have fun with the remaining 2,300 years of philosophy history. Let's talk again when you get to Nietzsche.
The most intelligent person I’ve ever heard. I like his paraphrase "AI is like sex: sometimes something useful comes from it ... but it is not why we do it." [2:06:12], and his definition of Ethics [1:45:45]. Excellent explanation of consciousness just in a few minutes [55:34].
The reason you feel like "a goldfish" when talking to Joscha is because he doesn't attempt to dumb down his responses to your level like most other popular intellectuals and academics would. Most intelligent people have a "filter" when talking to people outside their domain of expertise which is a social crutch that makes them seem more understandable. Incidentally, Joscha was absolutely right when he started to respond your goldfish comment by saying "this is my fault...". He recognized the issue very clearly, but this is part of his personality and what makes him a valuable thinker - he says exactly what he means with no dumbing down.
Oh man I discovered him by watching his recent interview with Lex Fridman. It was amazing to watch him almost interrupt Lex's question because he didn't need the sentence to be finished... it was almost tedious to him. Somehow it wasn't snobby but charming. He was also funny and witty. In this interview you can watch the interviewer talking for a long time and watch Bach's eyes darting around as his brain processes what I imagine to be a million responses, sorting them, categorizing them, condensing them, preparing them for the audience. The scary thing? I think this IS dumbed down... it's as simple as he can go, haha. What was his fault, was how he underestimated the goldfish threshold of the particular audience in the particular moment of time.
Joshua is just a master of optimizing and contextualizing his "output". Whatever the question, he seems to already have worked on answering it for himself, and it really shows. That process requires a person to understand at least dozen seemingly unrelated disciplines on at least intermediate level. In a society where you get essentially 0 external reward for going through that life-long process, it's understandable (and sad) we won't get many Bachs.
Is it even possible to dumb down, "computers that computer themselves". "Mathematics is the domain of all languages, even the spoken ones", " in a finite universe pi *must* have a last digit" etc. If anyone can, please help a brother out By recontextualizing.
1:47:42 “To me, meaning is like the Ring of Mordor; you have to carry it. If you drop the ring, you will lose the brotherhood (fellowship) of the ring, and you will lose your mission. (So) you have to carry it, but very lightly. If you put it on, you will get super powers, but you get corrupted because (really) there is no meaning, and you (will) get drawn into a cult which you (also) create…” Came back to this just to find this absolute gem of a quote
From the beginning to the end, so interesting; and touching so many thoughts, problems, words and definitions that I have to fight to with and came up in my (working) life. I am working and (try my best to) be a social (and psychological oriented) researcher. But thinking about AI and intelligence (models) and consciousness have to catch our interest and opens new opportunities for the social field much more often, than most of the researchers in my surroundings want to admit. Hopeful to hear Mr. Bach once in "real life". He is amazing.
Since the first time i heard this fox (Joshua), i feel like teens attracted to the Beatles back in the 60's... He is like a fountain of extremely relevant answers. Salute 🤯
Joscha....I love you I'm so grateful to have found you I feel like your my brother who's out there to explain me to others I am not a scholar but I have experienced so much of what it is u talk about and I find myself saying yep exactly that's exactly right when I listen to you it gives me so much peace and makes me feel like no I'm not crazy thank you thank you my heart and my soul thanks you your a valued treasured that I found....muah muah...sincerely thank you
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
so satisfying when the interviewer can understand many of the things Joscha is saying and react accordingly and ask questions that deepens the conversation rather than dumb it down- THANK YOU
@@SingularityFM you can certainly be forgiven! Having seen almost all of the Joscha Bach inteviews, I have found that only now I am understanding most of what he is explaining. When he speaks it is so information-condensed. I'd love to see you guys in a face to face interview, as it gives a whole other dynamic in the conversation :)
@@CTFlink Totally agree my friend and that is why I'd love to do an in-person interview with Joscha myself. After all, I'm very old school that way and always prefer in-person meetings, learning, and conversations though when that is not possible then I do appreciate the fact that on-line virtual conversations can be the next best option after physical in-person ones.
What an amazing interview. Joscha repeatedly spoke to my most cherished conclusions of decades of thinking about some of these things. Really incredible, his brilliance has a crystalizing property, a transparent consistency that leaves me breathless, i can tell he is giving me months of homework
Excellent interview! Josha is a shining star in intellectual pursuit and command of language. Remarkable man. You kept up with him all the way, coaxed ever more insights from him, thanks! Easy subscription to your channel, for me..
Tap the three-dot menu to slow playback speed and turn on captions; double-tap or more on the left side of the video to jump back 10 or more seconds. (... get a good night's sleep then hydrate and replenish electrolytes before listening 😉)
As nerdy and awesome as this interview comes accross, I struggle with the confidence with which this man speaks. Everything just "is" this or a that, without a shadow of doubt. How can anyone know all this, and not just suspect it?
I am watching it again after several years. I haven't seen anything close to this brilliant, totally authentic, illuminating, heartwarming conversation fun the last 4 years (although I was looking everywhere). Even today, Joscha cannot recreate such a lightness and transparency of expressing his thoughts.
Nice to hear. Especially since I'm supposed to record a follow-up interview with him on June 3rd. So if all goes according to plan should have it posted within a week after that.
@@SingularityFM That's a fantastic news. I hope that you will get him out of his nerd-shell. He is getting too technical recently. Help him to open up. Ask him if he has his Red Book like Carl Jung (which he never showed to anybody)? Ask him why building a ZOO without right angles was important to his father. Or what questions would he ask to an ultimate/all-knowing AI computer? And ask him to imagine himself after all his questions were answered.
The best part of a conversation with Joscha is the elaboration, not the answer to the questions. I enjoy the plethora of rabbits holes that can be unpacked and explored.
IVE BEEN THINKING THIS!! it seems to me like both Krishnamurtis still provide some of the most important perspectives and understandings of life that are immediately accessible, especially as we go into this future :)
That was such a disarming and honest moment when you expressed your feeling of being a goldfish in the wake of Mr. Bach's cognitive outpourings. I have the same feeling. One question I have is - has anyone observed or verified the profound powers of his intellect ? What I mean is, for example, has he made any major breakthroughs in a particular field ? Or is he "just" extremely well informed and insightful and articulate with an ability to compose profound conjectures.
Yes, I want an interviewer to stop him and ask "You're obviously extremely smart and well-informed. What are you going to DO with your life, beyond effortlessly dropping insight bombs every 30 seconds in interviews that leave listeners slack-jawed and pressing the rewind button to process what you just said?"
@@skierpage Exactly. I mean that is an impressive skill, yes. Blows us all away but I am very curious if that skill translates into the ability to make some breakthrough scientific or engineering contribution. I sure hope so ! The guy is so impressive, maybe he could save the world.
He doesn’t understand the maths higher levels like most cuz its impossible its axioms become unclear, just think to yourself if you understand math to the point where you can recreate it
I appreciate the host's analysis of the academic industrial complex, which is, after 3 decades, very authoritarian, with pockets of freedom, in pockets of time. Tenure schmenure.
I for one am privileged to witness a person like this in my lifetime expounding on his life's work. Thanks to this amazing invention called the internet. Awe struck. Only other person I've heard speak like this is S. Pinker.
Thank you Nikola for this nice interview. I enjoyed this one very much and I learned a lot. This was one of the few interviews where the guest was talking about the field of research so that it makes sense to me. I am looking forward for a next interview with this brilliant guy. Many of other guests talk more like evangelists and salesman than like scientists.
I found myself having to rewind for 30 seconds at the juicer sections to allow my slower processor to keep up. Huh. I had thought I was pretty smart. At least when the singularity occurs, we'll all be equally dumb. For a nano second. Then yeast.
yeast makes bread rise - the singularity has already occurred, where do you think you get your thoughts from? And how handy for a virus to halt movement in order to conserve energy...
My brain is on fire - in a good way! Call it a dopamine and serotonin blast delivered from the stimulating conversation. I wonder what Joscha thinks about AI merging with human consciousness or perhaps what he would consider "self"?
36:29 onwards, so moving. “In this universe humanity has just doomed its planet to have couple of hundred really really good years, and you get your lifetime close to the end of the party. ... If you take this as a computer game metaphor, this is like the best level for humanity to play in. And this best level happens to be the last level for humanity to play, as it happens against the backdrop of a dying world. But it's still the best level.”
Facing our Mortality brings us full circle. I feel fortunate to have lived; what a gift life is. Think about it. I am not Christian, nor am I Buddhist. I am myself.
Joscha on similarity between Art and Science : "I find that most people serve practical needs. They have an understanding of the difference between meaning and relevance. And at some level my mind is more interested in meaning than in relevance. That is similar to the mind of an artist. The arts are not life. They are not serving life. The arts are the cuckoo child of life. Because the meaning of life is to eat. You know, life is evolution and evolution is about eating. It's pretty gross if you think about it. Evolution is about getting eaten by monsters. Don't go into the desert and perish there, because it's going to be a waste. If you're lucky the monsters that eat you are your own children. And eventually the search for evolution will, if evolution reaches its global optimum, it will be the perfect devourer. The thing that is able to digest anything and turn it into structure to sustain and perpetuate itself, for long as the local puddle of negentropy is available. And in a way we are yeast. Everything we do, all the complexity that we create, all the structures we build, is to erect some surfaces on which to out compete other kinds of yeast. And if you realize this you can try to get behind this and I think the solution to this is fascism. Fascism is a mode of organization of society in which the individual is a cell in the superorganism and the value of the individual is exactly the contribution to the superorganism. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. And it's totally brutal. I don't like fascism because it's going to kill a lot of minds I like. And the arts is slightly different. It's a mutation that is arguably not completely adaptive. It's one where people fall in love with the loss function. Where you think that your mental representation is the intrinsically important thing. That you try to capture a conscious state for its own sake, because you think that matters. The true artist in my view is somebody who captures conscious states and that's the only reason why they eat. So you eat to make art. And another person makes art to eat. And these are of course the ends of a spectrum and the truth is often somewhere in the middle, but in a way there is this fundamental distinction. And there are in some sense the true scientists which are trying to figure out something about the universe. They are trying to reflect it. And it's an artistic process in a way. It's an attempt to be a reflection to this universe. You see there is this amazing vast darkness which is the universe. There's all these iterations of patterns, but mostly there is nothing interesting happening in these patterns. It's a giant fractal and most of it is just boring. And at a brief moment in the evolution of the universe there are planetary surfaces and negentropy gradients that allow for the creation of structure and then there are some brief flashes of consciousness in all this vast darkness. And these brief flashes of consciousness can reflect the universe and maybe even figure out what it is. It's the only chance that we have. Right? This is amazing. Why not do this? Life is short. This is the thing we can do. "
I been into podcasts and clever people for year been listening for Bret Weinstein, Sam Harris, Noam Chomsky, Jordan Peterson. But Joscha Bach is just on another level, I feel like I were listening to idiots(even though they certainty not) this a whole time.
About the last part of the discussion related to suffering, I remember a video I seen a few years ago with a treatment for depression where an electrode was inserted in a specific part of the brain responsible with mood and they used a dial to see the level of happiness / suffering and you can see how face expression was changing in real time on the woman that had the procedure and they where testing what sort of level to set. We are biological machines and nothing more than that. Joscha was using a combination of languages English some C++ and a bit of math :), thus it was a bit hard to understand if you did not had the same vocabulary but it was an efficient way to express ideas for those that speak the same language.
i became very nihilistic upon listening to bach's thoughts at length, and coming to a sort of culmination of a narrative with his helpful guidance, though i think some unnerving clues were leading me there regardless. I am enriched by, yet fear the hexagons. I am the hexagons.
Joscha’s insights are incredibly eyeopening and inspiring.
4 роки тому
there's so much insides on this conversation that i cannon simply write them here. is just a conversation waaay over the normal or casual talk to anyone. But i'll love understanding it and hoping that some day, we understand ourself as he was describing. (but, in the harder way, because we're inventing machines JUST to justify, (calculate and demonstrate) what we already know about us, our existence is brief, so as our own perspective, and our mission here is to be an entropy reducer while we reproduce ourselves to keep our biological task, of being another dimension result part of the universe watching itself.
I’ve never looked into AI because I thought it was about robots. But I have had a spiritual awakening, then his Interview with Lex Friedman introduced me to Joscha and I was listening and was like , why is this guy on an AI podcast because what he is saying is a self evident truth Ive realized as well and I was like oh, cause of that robot book cover, haha. Now listening to Joscha, of course what we are AI, or MAYA. And how lucky I get to have him as my guide to understanding through deconstructing Consciousness, my experience and where I’m making errors as well!!!
1:30:00 ethics becomes very difficult to discuss once the reward function becomes mutable. When you're able to change what it is important to you, what you care about, then how do you define ethics
What you believe, becomes true for you...as man thinks & believe so it will be.The mind is a computer, but we have infinite choices. See the world as One. Ich lasse mich nicht erspressen!
1:03:47 there are two types of learning one you generalize from existing models and you call that prejudice when you're in a bad mood. And the other is someone tells you what to think
Great interview BTW. I really enjoyed listening and thinking, sometimes at the same time. Actually, Time is simply a method for observing the ratios between multiple series of events, so something must have happened.
We are mathematical beings constantly striving to better our system So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
I know it is a dangerous path I am taking but I do not understand his rejection of fascism in pure pragmatic way. he stated that the value of the cell is exactly his contribution to the superorganism. this makes sense. and it is logical, that the superorganism eliminates those cells with a negative impact. this is rational for the long-run survival of the superorganism - which is the only purpose of the superorganism. if that is fascism, then fascism is the way to survive and the best mechanism. off course you can not like this. I also don't like that whole life is about eating or getting eaten. but this does not change the necessity. Joscha Bach is the most brilliant mind I ever listened to. What do I get wrong? Is this really a pure subjective preference statement of him? Becasue his arguments make fascism more plausible to me. (please to not confuse with historical ideological fascism.)
I would love to see a conversation with Joscha Bach, where the host can actually follow and ask adequate questions. The only things I see on YT are a bunch of videos where Joscha has to lead the conversation by himself, because the hosts are completely lost.
So frustrating that in our world a binary mind is more appreciated than a holistic one. An evolving society would value it's scientists, philosophers and artists to the same degree that this dying world values military leaders, financiers and politicians. Instead, these wealthy idiots get the keys to life and death for others, in reward for making decisions that a sociopathic child could make.
37:00 for 100 years we burned through fossil fuels from deposits that only existed because nature hasn't evolved microrganisms to eat the trees,in order to give everyone plumbing and grow from 400M to 8B
@@GrahamBessellieu So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
I watch a lot of topics and I want to begin to understand yours; thus my first question 🤔 : Do you put life modeling before the ai and topics you work on including models of consciousness as a open question. Yes or no? Robert Its a 😎 .interview.
I like the idea of consciousness or a person being a simulation. It is a way to hack your brain without needing to meditate that much. And it makes it possible to think of quicker changes in my mind than I assumed before. Allthough there is still some hard wiring in the brain. But we can overcome most of it.
The flaw with this view is that artists and others who work outside of the world of rationality and information do not make models. They play with ideas, often aimlessly, until something emerges from their play that meets a certain criterion of beauty, astonishment, rigor, or whatever it is they deem of sufficient aesthetic quality to release into the world and be taken in by others. Their work is not meant to function as a model or paradigm, it is simply a singularity of vision that is put on display without any pretense to utility, guidance or goal.
Joscha Bach is a promising evidence that our species is evolving.
Or perhaps his rarity is evidence of the opposite.
Maybe If most women found him desirable and wanted his babies. Unfortunately sexual selection seems to outweigh everything else.
@@samsonslmpson1986 Actually, intelligence is perceived as an attractive trait in men.
@ He does, but that doesn't mean most women find him as the ideal. Look at Isaac Newton and Nietzsche, both died without ever procreating, huge waste of genetic potential.
His personal views are that we are pretty close to self-destruction. He is actually a pessimistic realist.
I've found about Joscha in Lex podcast. He is gold.
I think that's a popular outcome. I became a disciple immediately and have not heard him say much to make me change my mind. An excellent mind, and perhaps more excitingly, an excellent and self-aware mind.
Me too. So natural and wise. Great rolemodel for science and spirituality blend.
Same.
I wish he had his own podcast!! Where can we get more of Joscha??
Also, I would love a whole list of book recommendations. It's unbelievable the conclusions this man reaches and the clarity in his ideas and his thought process.
@@rohlay00 You can follow him on twitter
When he said the meaning of life is "to eat"... I laughed out loud and cried with relief
If he isn't the smartest guy on Earth, then he's among the small group of people who could be.
The more interviews of Joscha, the better. Listening to him expands my mind in a good way.
rate quilibrium constant rate constant of reaction k equal s a e 0 Ea/RT units/ arrow increaswes with concentration a t equal temp the transition state hasgreater energy than both reactants and products
change is in pressure volume increase pressure vhsnhg er in pressure volume increase pressurechange in pressure volume increase pressure
He has a humble bookshelf for his zoom background
He's pretty much saying what we've always known, we are creating our story, and you can pretty much do anything you want with the right attitude towards it. He's just breaking down the mathematics of it
Humble honest bookshelf
Joscha spontaneously tapping on the video camera lens during the goldfish analogy was the highlight of this weblog.
And is was within secs, really amazing ;-)
His genius clearly extends in to comedy
hes so good
The Comedic timing is impeccable😁
I like the way the host did not interrupt the speaker and got the best out of him. I hope we get access to more brilliant minds.
Bach is an amazing thinker, I wish I could "see the matrix" like he does for just one day. And still he's able to clearly communicate even the most complex things. Yes, it is demanding to follow him, but that only makes me dig deeper into the subject on my own. That imho is science at its best!
I am not sure where he is going with this...it appears that he wishes to leave intelligence to cybernetic life to take over from biological life...but without consciousness is there a point to this?
@@bradmodd7856 I don't think it's what he wishes, but rather what he predicts will happen... the way person predicts that a ball thrown up into the air, will slow and fall down to the ground.
Zippy Leroux Wonderful analogy friend!👍🏽
There is no Matrix. The illusions are our own delusions. We are the ones who dream, no one is deceiving us but we ourselves.
@@squarerootof2 Congratulations, you understood Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Have fun with the remaining 2,300 years of philosophy history. Let's talk again when you get to Nietzsche.
The 19k views are 1k people watching this 19 times each to try to understand the intelligence of Joscha Bach.
hahahaha ;-)
Facts.
Fair enough
Likewise!😍
Yup
The most intelligent person I’ve ever heard. I like his paraphrase "AI is like sex: sometimes something useful comes from it ... but it is not why we do it." [2:06:12], and his definition of Ethics [1:45:45]. Excellent explanation of consciousness just in a few minutes [55:34].
That quote is Feynman's..
The reason you feel like "a goldfish" when talking to Joscha is because he doesn't attempt to dumb down his responses to your level like most other popular intellectuals and academics would. Most intelligent people have a "filter" when talking to people outside their domain of expertise which is a social crutch that makes them seem more understandable. Incidentally, Joscha was absolutely right when he started to respond your goldfish comment by saying "this is my fault...". He recognized the issue very clearly, but this is part of his personality and what makes him a valuable thinker - he says exactly what he means with no dumbing down.
Oh man I discovered him by watching his recent interview with Lex Fridman. It was amazing to watch him almost interrupt Lex's question because he didn't need the sentence to be finished... it was almost tedious to him. Somehow it wasn't snobby but charming. He was also funny and witty. In this interview you can watch the interviewer talking for a long time and watch Bach's eyes darting around as his brain processes what I imagine to be a million responses, sorting them, categorizing them, condensing them, preparing them for the audience. The scary thing? I think this IS dumbed down... it's as simple as he can go, haha. What was his fault, was how he underestimated the goldfish threshold of the particular audience in the particular moment of time.
25:43
Joshua is just a master of optimizing and contextualizing his "output". Whatever the question, he seems to already have worked on answering it for himself, and it really shows. That process requires a person to understand at least dozen seemingly unrelated disciplines on at least intermediate level. In a society where you get essentially 0 external reward for going through that life-long process, it's understandable (and sad) we won't get many Bachs.
Is it even possible to dumb down, "computers that computer themselves". "Mathematics is the domain of all languages, even the spoken ones", " in a finite universe pi *must* have a last digit" etc.
If anyone can, please help a brother out By recontextualizing.
We dont know that hes not dumbing down. This could be him on 6.
1:47:42
“To me, meaning is like the Ring of Mordor; you have to carry it.
If you drop the ring, you will lose the brotherhood (fellowship) of the ring, and you will lose your mission.
(So) you have to carry it, but very lightly.
If you put it on, you will get super powers, but you get corrupted because (really) there is no meaning, and you (will) get drawn into a cult which you (also) create…”
Came back to this just to find this absolute gem of a quote
Yes, indeed, what a find. Thank you for highlighting it for us all ;-)
Amazing talk. Never seen such a deep complex ideas being presented so clearly.
From the beginning to the end, so interesting; and touching so many thoughts, problems, words and definitions that I have to fight to with and came up in my (working) life. I am working and (try my best to) be a social (and psychological oriented) researcher. But thinking about AI and intelligence (models) and consciousness have to catch our interest and opens new opportunities for the social field much more often, than most of the researchers in my surroundings want to admit.
Hopeful to hear Mr. Bach once in "real life". He is amazing.
Since the first time i heard this fox (Joshua), i feel like teens attracted to the Beatles back in the 60's...
He is like a fountain of extremely relevant answers.
Salute 🤯
Joscha....I love you I'm so grateful to have found you I feel like your my brother who's out there to explain me to others I am not a scholar but I have experienced so much of what it is u talk about and I find myself saying yep exactly that's exactly right when I listen to you it gives me so much peace and makes me feel like no I'm not crazy thank you thank you my heart and my soul thanks you your a valued treasured that I found....muah muah...sincerely thank you
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
That gold-fish moment at 22:50 is just a stellar display of the man's sense of connections he's able to patch up on the fly.
Spectacle.
Absolutely best interview with Joscha, and I watched most of them. You definitely nailed it as an interviewer.
Thank you. I always try my best but it sure helps that we have good chemistry with Joscha and enjoy our conversations ;-)
so satisfying when the interviewer can understand many of the things Joscha is saying and react accordingly and ask questions that deepens the conversation rather than dumb it down- THANK YOU
Thank you, though as I said during the interview, there were a few times that I felt like a Gold Fish trying to keep up with Joscha ;-)
@@SingularityFM you can certainly be forgiven! Having seen almost all of the Joscha Bach inteviews, I have found that only now I am understanding most of what he is explaining. When he speaks it is so information-condensed. I'd love to see you guys in a face to face interview, as it gives a whole other dynamic in the conversation :)
@@CTFlink Totally agree my friend and that is why I'd love to do an in-person interview with Joscha myself. After all, I'm very old school that way and always prefer in-person meetings, learning, and conversations though when that is not possible then I do appreciate the fact that on-line virtual conversations can be the next best option after physical in-person ones.
What an amazing interview. Joscha repeatedly spoke to my most cherished conclusions of decades of thinking about some of these things. Really incredible, his brilliance has a crystalizing property, a transparent consistency that leaves me breathless, i can tell he is giving me months of homework
Excellent interview! Josha is a shining star in intellectual pursuit and command of language. Remarkable man. You kept up with him all the way, coaxed ever more insights from him, thanks! Easy subscription to your channel, for me..
50% of what Bach says goes over my head! I will have to listen to it few times before I can make sense of much of what he saying.
Tap the three-dot menu to slow playback speed and turn on captions; double-tap or more on the left side of the video to jump back 10 or more seconds. (... get a good night's sleep then hydrate and replenish electrolytes before listening 😉)
skierpage is that how you maximize your potential for memory retention or just helps you focus and relaxed
I don’t understand most of what this genius is saying but I love trying to learn.
I could listen to this gentleman all day 🇨🇦🙏
As nerdy and awesome as this interview comes accross, I struggle with the confidence with which this man speaks. Everything just "is" this or a that, without a shadow of doubt. How can anyone know all this, and not just suspect it?
This is his life live yours take what you can or want and expand or indulge or review and be smarter than him thats the only way
Just be
hes just a really smart and intelligent independent thinker
I've been searching for answers about life for years. This guy has me hooked.
one of the best interviews on Your channel. Thank You!
I am watching it again after several years. I haven't seen anything close to this brilliant, totally authentic, illuminating, heartwarming conversation fun the last 4 years (although I was looking everywhere). Even today, Joscha cannot recreate such a lightness and transparency of expressing his thoughts.
Nice to hear. Especially since I'm supposed to record a follow-up interview with him on June 3rd. So if all goes according to plan should have it posted within a week after that.
@@SingularityFM That's a fantastic news. I hope that you will get him out of his nerd-shell. He is getting too technical recently. Help him to open up. Ask him if he has his Red Book like Carl Jung (which he never showed to anybody)? Ask him why building a ZOO without right angles was important to his father. Or what questions would he ask to an ultimate/all-knowing AI computer? And ask him to imagine himself after all his questions were answered.
@@marktwain5266 Just wait until the interview comes out and hope you're pleasantly surprised. Again! ;-)
The best part of a conversation with Joscha is the elaboration, not the answer to the questions. I enjoy the plethora of rabbits holes that can be unpacked and explored.
Dr. Bach is the U.G. Krishnamurti of AI. :-) Very interesting talk. Thanks.
IVE BEEN THINKING THIS!!
it seems to me like both Krishnamurtis still provide some of the most important perspectives and understandings of life that are immediately accessible, especially as we go into this future :)
That was such a disarming and honest moment when you expressed your feeling of being a goldfish in the wake of Mr. Bach's cognitive outpourings. I have the same feeling. One question I have is - has anyone observed or verified the profound powers of his intellect ? What I mean is, for example, has he made any major breakthroughs in a particular field ? Or is he "just" extremely well informed and insightful and articulate with an ability to compose profound conjectures.
That is a very good question.
Yes, I want an interviewer to stop him and ask "You're obviously extremely smart and well-informed. What are you going to DO with your life, beyond effortlessly dropping insight bombs every 30 seconds in interviews that leave listeners slack-jawed and pressing the rewind button to process what you just said?"
@@skierpage Exactly. I mean that is an impressive skill, yes. Blows us all away but I am very curious if that skill translates into the ability to make some breakthrough scientific or engineering contribution. I sure hope so ! The guy is so impressive, maybe he could save the world.
He doesn’t understand the maths higher levels like most cuz its impossible its axioms become unclear, just think to yourself if you understand math to the point where you can recreate it
Of course he does. Here you have a list of his publications: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joscha_Bach#Publications
I appreciate the host's analysis of the academic industrial complex, which is, after 3 decades, very authoritarian, with pockets of freedom, in pockets of time.
Tenure schmenure.
This is a MAD MAD GUY...... Nikola only 5 interview of 2 hours each and then we can START comprehending this guy......
I for one am privileged to witness a person like this in my lifetime expounding on his life's work. Thanks to this amazing invention called the internet.
Awe struck. Only other person I've heard speak like this is S. Pinker.
Thank you Nikola for this nice interview. I enjoyed this one very much and I learned a lot. This was one of the few interviews where the guest was talking about the field of research so that it makes sense to me. I am looking forward for a next interview with this brilliant guy. Many of other guests talk more like evangelists and salesman than like scientists.
Joscha Bach i love you deeply :)
I found myself having to rewind for 30 seconds at the juicer sections to allow my slower processor to keep up. Huh. I had thought I was pretty smart. At least when the singularity occurs, we'll all be equally dumb. For a nano second. Then yeast.
yeast makes bread rise - the singularity has already occurred, where do you think you get your thoughts from? And how handy for a virus to halt movement in order to conserve energy...
@@martinpopplewell8899 interesting. I've always wondered where thoughts and ideas come from. What's your explanation?
Wave function vibrations that solve problems - attracted to an observer by gravity...
@@martinpopplewell8899 so why do some people get more ideas than others and why aren't ideas unique to an individual?
ovoj there unique to your experience
My brain is on fire - in a good way! Call it a dopamine and serotonin blast delivered from the stimulating conversation. I wonder what Joscha thinks about AI merging with human consciousness or perhaps what he would consider "self"?
fantastic interview
I'm glad to have found this channel, lots of interesting thoughts and perspectives
36:29 onwards, so moving.
“In this universe humanity has just doomed its planet to have couple of hundred really really good years, and you get your lifetime close to the end of the party. ... If you take this as a computer game metaphor, this is like the best level for humanity to play in. And this best level happens to be the last level for humanity to play, as it happens against the backdrop of a dying world. But it's still the best level.”
Facing our Mortality brings us full circle. I feel fortunate to have lived; what a gift life is. Think about it.
I am not Christian, nor am I Buddhist. I am myself.
I am an automaton who independently needed to change my settings from regular playback to .75 to follow what automaton Joscha is saying.
hahahaha, good one my friend ;-)
bach is a very ... so far ... uncommon man .... fascinating . ty.
Joscha on similarity between Art and Science
: "I find that most people serve practical needs. They have an understanding of the difference between meaning and relevance. And at some level my mind is more interested in meaning than in relevance. That is similar to the mind of an artist. The arts are not life. They are not serving life. The arts are the cuckoo child of life. Because the meaning of life is to eat. You know, life is evolution and evolution is about eating. It's pretty gross if you think about it. Evolution is about getting eaten by monsters. Don't go into the desert and perish there, because it's going to be a waste. If you're lucky the monsters that eat you are your own children. And eventually the search for evolution will, if evolution reaches its global optimum, it will be the perfect devourer. The thing that is able to digest anything and turn it into structure to sustain and perpetuate itself, for long as the local puddle of negentropy is available.
And in a way we are yeast. Everything we do, all the complexity that we create, all the structures we build, is to erect some surfaces on which to out compete other kinds of yeast. And if you realize this you can try to get behind this and I think the solution to this is fascism. Fascism is a mode of organization of society in which the individual is a cell in the superorganism and the value of the individual is exactly the contribution to the superorganism. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. And it's totally brutal. I don't like fascism because it's going to kill a lot of minds I like.
And the arts is slightly different. It's a mutation that is arguably not completely adaptive. It's one where people fall in love with the loss function. Where you think that your mental representation is the intrinsically important thing. That you try to capture a conscious state for its own sake, because you think that matters. The true artist in my view is somebody who captures conscious states and that's the only reason why they eat. So you eat to make art. And another person makes art to eat. And these are of course the ends of a spectrum and the truth is often somewhere in the middle, but in a way there is this fundamental distinction.
And there are in some sense the true scientists which are trying to figure out something about the universe. They are trying to reflect it. And it's an artistic process in a way. It's an attempt to be a reflection to this universe. You see there is this amazing vast darkness which is the universe. There's all these iterations of patterns, but mostly there is nothing interesting happening in these patterns. It's a giant fractal and most of it is just boring. And at a brief moment in the evolution of the universe there are planetary surfaces and negentropy gradients that allow for the creation of structure and then there are some brief flashes of consciousness in all this vast darkness. And these brief flashes of consciousness can reflect the universe and maybe even figure out what it is. It's the only chance that we have. Right? This is amazing. Why not do this? Life is short. This is the thing we can do.
"
Thank you for capturing this!
I been into podcasts and clever people for year been listening for Bret Weinstein, Sam Harris, Noam Chomsky, Jordan Peterson. But Joscha Bach is just on another level, I feel like I were listening to idiots(even though they certainty not) this a whole time.
I feel you.
About the last part of the discussion related to suffering, I remember a video I seen a few years ago with a treatment for depression where an electrode was inserted in a specific part of the brain responsible with mood and they used a dial to see the level of happiness / suffering and you can see how face expression was changing in real time on the woman that had the procedure and they where testing what sort of level to set. We are biological machines and nothing more than that.
Joscha was using a combination of languages English some C++ and a bit of math :), thus it was a bit hard to understand if you did not had the same vocabulary but it was an efficient way to express ideas for those that speak the same language.
Maravilhosa conversa, este Bach é um gênio
i became very nihilistic upon listening to bach's thoughts at length, and coming to a sort of culmination of a narrative with his helpful guidance, though i think some unnerving clues were leading me there regardless. I am enriched by, yet fear the hexagons. I am the hexagons.
Joscha’s insights are incredibly eyeopening and inspiring.
there's so much insides on this conversation that i cannon simply write them here.
is just a conversation waaay over the normal or casual talk to anyone. But i'll love understanding it and hoping that some day, we understand ourself as he was describing. (but, in the harder way, because we're inventing machines JUST to justify, (calculate and demonstrate) what we already know about us, our existence is brief, so as our own perspective, and our mission here is to be an entropy reducer while we reproduce ourselves to keep our biological task, of being another dimension result part of the universe watching itself.
Bubbles, thank you for this incredible interview! Your fan, Finny
I’ve never looked into AI because I thought it was about robots. But I have had a spiritual awakening, then his Interview with Lex Friedman introduced me to Joscha and I was listening and was like , why is this guy on an AI podcast because what he is saying is a self evident truth Ive realized as well and I was like oh, cause of that robot book cover, haha. Now listening to Joscha, of course what we are AI, or MAYA. And how lucky I get to have him as my guide to understanding through deconstructing Consciousness, my experience and where I’m making errors as well!!!
You are a beautiful human Joscha Bach.
Appreciate you guys . This young man is brilliant and it's good to hear these kind of conversations . Much love and gratitude. Wh0leness
Joscha is so wonderful! What a great chap; hes so adorable and scorchingly brilliant! His goofy giggle always makes me laugh!
Happy for new video :)
Did he write the book he proposed? If anyone has it, please provide a link.
Subscribed ! Very interesting..
Joscha is functionally awake. Open your eyes and wake up with him. 👍👍
Very good, thanks a lot!
Joscha Bach solved Rubik's cube of knowledge.
Thank you for the talk. Brilliant ♥
Ideas are in tiers and people think a good idea is one that’s a half tier above theirs, beautifully said and 59:00 boooom
1:30:00 ethics becomes very difficult to discuss once the reward function becomes mutable. When you're able to change what it is important to you, what you care about, then how do you define ethics
Joscha for President of the Miky Way !
I cant wrap my head around the fact this video is 5 years old
Consciousness just is. Beyond concept, thought, measurement or reduction. Mind is material, emerging with quantum events.
58:03 "Our perception goes towards coherence. It tries to find one operator which is completely coherent"
What you believe, becomes true for you...as man thinks & believe so it will be.The mind is a computer, but we have infinite choices. See the world as One. Ich lasse mich nicht erspressen!
Annunaki = Joscha
1:03:47 there are two types of learning one you generalize from existing models and you call that prejudice when you're in a bad mood. And the other is someone tells you what to think
Really understand what Josha, is talking about.
Joscha is an amazing thinker, I only wish he'd use a few more metaphors and analogies to make his ideas clearer lol
Really beautiful and original thinker and communicator
Great interview BTW. I really enjoyed listening and thinking, sometimes at the same time.
Actually, Time is simply a method for observing the ratios between multiple series of events, so something must have happened.
Geez I’m glad you mentioned that about gold fish I was feeling exactly same way, but I’ll take that 5 percent I’m comprehending
We are mathematical beings constantly striving to better our system
So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
If Joshua was a start-up i would invest the most valuable thing i control and that is my mind (consciousness).
He is you
I know it is a dangerous path I am taking but I do not understand his rejection of fascism in pure pragmatic way. he stated that the value of the cell is exactly his contribution to the superorganism. this makes sense. and it is logical, that the superorganism eliminates those cells with a negative impact. this is rational for the long-run survival of the superorganism - which is the only purpose of the superorganism. if that is fascism, then fascism is the way to survive and the best mechanism. off course you can not like this. I also don't like that whole life is about eating or getting eaten. but this does not change the necessity.
Joscha Bach is the most brilliant mind I ever listened to. What do I get wrong? Is this really a pure subjective preference statement of him? Becasue his arguments make fascism more plausible to me. (please to not confuse with historical ideological fascism.)
I would love to see a conversation with Joscha Bach, where the host can actually follow and ask adequate questions. The only things I see on YT are a bunch of videos where Joscha has to lead the conversation by himself, because the hosts are completely lost.
But then you won't follow it 🙂
I think Lex Fridman understood what he said.
This cheered me up big time...I’m laughing myself to death.
17.28 Philosophy as a field on enquiry is practically dead.....how true
Браво брат, супер яко.
I eat to make art. My life would be perfect if I didn't have to do any commercial art and just make my own art my whole life.
So frustrating that in our world a binary mind is more appreciated than a holistic one. An evolving society would value it's scientists, philosophers and artists to the same degree that this dying world values military leaders, financiers and politicians. Instead, these wealthy idiots get the keys to life and death for others, in reward for making decisions that a sociopathic child could make.
Awesome video
37:00 for 100 years we burned through fossil fuels from deposits that only existed because nature hasn't evolved microrganisms to eat the trees,in order to give everyone plumbing and grow from 400M to 8B
I'm a Stoic. And I belong to a group of Stoics in Seattle.
When Joscha says “mathematics is the domain of all languages”, what does this mean exactly?
It’s the universal language that can be understood by everyone as everyone agrees on the definition of each “sign” (I think)
Or the underlying computational processes involved with all language is formally mathematical in nature?
"Math is good and it is also really cool"
- Jim Rita
@@GrahamBessellieu Yup, languages are just different ways of explaining math.
@@GrahamBessellieu So ontological mathematics is the study of the mathematical waveforms of mind that make up all of existence and your very being. The spacetime world isn't a material reality at all. It's the Holos, which is a mathematical Fourier projection from a frequency singularity known as the Source.
I think people have trust in those thoughts which allow them to live the kind of life they personally want to live
joschua bach is so amazing and brilliant.
Thanks!
So young and so intelligent.
Almost 45 at the time of the recording.
😮
This man makes me realize just how boring and stupid I actually am. It's kinda wonderful. I hope he isn't too lonely.
This guy can sell a position like nobody else
A beautiful mind.
I watch a lot of topics and I want to begin to understand yours; thus my first question 🤔 :
Do you put life modeling before the ai and topics you work on including models of consciousness as a open question. Yes or no? Robert
Its a 😎 .interview.
I like the idea of consciousness or a person being a simulation. It is a way to hack your brain without needing to meditate that much. And it makes it possible to think of quicker changes in my mind than I assumed before. Allthough there is still some hard wiring in the brain. But we can overcome most of it.
26.00: Nikola how humble you are???? That's greater
Joscha is clarity.
The flaw with this view is that artists and others who work outside of the world of rationality and information do not make models. They play with ideas, often aimlessly, until something emerges from their play that meets a certain criterion of beauty, astonishment, rigor, or whatever it is they deem of sufficient aesthetic quality to release into the world and be taken in by others. Their work is not meant to function as a model or paradigm, it is simply a singularity of vision that is put on display without any pretense to utility, guidance or goal.
4.09: Outsider point of view.............nice
pro tip: use colons in time stamps so that UA-cam auto links them to the video, i.e. 4:09.
29:00 It's not that art is useless, it's just that the utility of art is completely orthogonal to why you do it
Dear Joscha, please write a (pop science) book! so we can order some of our thoughts and leave our intellectual dead wood behind.