I like this scene because it shows both how Viren is capable of regret and change, but also how he will never be truly rid of all of his faults. For example, he didn’t even think to mention SOREN his SON and how he could use this time to possibly make some amends or at least see him one more time. But nope doesn’t seem to cross his mind once. (poor soren)
to be honest, that was one of his main faults. they try to play him off as an anti-hero who wants whats best for humanity when he's clearly evil to the core. same for claudia. stop putting it off and just finish her villain arc already. and yes, I am aware he's supposed to be disillusioned with how noble he thinks he is. the difference is that unlike, say, judge frollo, who's much the same as a disillusioned villain and just convinces himself he's doing the right thing, Viren shows genuinely good parts of him. this wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the writers constantly showing him as undeniably evil; telling his children to kill the princes, not caring about soren, assassinating the monarchs, imprisoning the interpreter, turning his army into a generic army of minions (so much for the moral dilemma of a war between humanity vs elves the series has been hinting at for the entirety of its showtime.) this overall makes him, at least in my opinion, less of a conflicted and morally grey villain and more a confusing one. I will admit that aaravos's presence made him worse over time, but before then he had "I'm super evil" moments and during he had "I'm not that bad" moments.
I don’t know what’s more sad: the fact that Viren could have changed into a good man in those last few moments, or the fact that Claudia is turning into her father?
I think it's fascinating, here, how close Viren got to turning away and choosing a better path, but he had already sent Claudia down that path for too long. She's the one who pulls him back from the brink of trying to be better, to push him back down the dark path thay's already killed him once. They're destroying each other
Turning into her father? Nah bro, I'm calling it now, Claudia is going to be a bigger threat than Viren ever was. I mean there was even that scene where Claudia used his gold staff and Viren was like "Huh, I didn't know it could do that."
Lord Viren is such a profound and complex character...really was why I got so hooked in the first season. I think George RR Martin would approve of him. He's literally very human, in both his nature and identity in this age old conflict with the elves. Shame he already led his daughter in way too deep. Half her hair is white now!!! She's going to have to start sacrificing magical butterflies soon, to appear normal...
Viren's monologue reminded me of when Soren talked about becoming a poet after he broke his back. In these 2 scenes both were trying to make the best of a terrible situation & appreciate what they could enjoy.
That's exactly what I was thinking. When the chips are down, Soren and Viren are sometimes more similar than the both of them think. They both realize that, being evil, being cruel, striving for power, for approval, for status. None of it matters in the face of absolution. And both of them can accept that. It's such a wonderful thought process they both go through. Ironically though, Claudia, despite her not exactly great motivations, has been the one to keep them both willing to keep living. FUCK I LOVE THE VIREN FAMILY, THEY ARE ALL SO COMPLICATED.
The moment in the earlier seasons when Viren corrected Aaravos from calling Claudia just an “asset” was what sold me on him as a character. This just further proves I was right in being sold. He’s not black and white, but very complex
They actually have a flashback of that scene in episode 7 of this season, so clearly it's an important one and probably sign of where Viren's story is going.
all these themes about death, the last days of life and achieving inner peace have always been very sensitive topics for me, in a good and bad way, and the way they handled it in this episode was AMAZING, i even *cried* while watching it. i never thought i would ever sympathize so much with viren, it seemed impossible...
Claudia was Refuse to appect the fact that Her dad wants to be die in 30 days season 2 if you remember When Caludia and Erzan were Talking she said that her parents divorce and she and soren had to choose between her mother and viren she was Trama that this and Soren during Invasion of Xadia left because Soren know that Viren was wrong and Caludia was upset again. To her this is her family breaking up again now Viren is all she has Left in this world and She said she had to do things that she didn't think she could Maybe Sacrifice someone IE Saleer the council member who support Viren being King If you have a good look and the ending for Season 3 there is a dead body in the cave looking like him. And can't accept that the fact that Viren is evil and Aaravos is using her strings like a puppet maybe a new partner Someone stronger in dark magic than Viren
@@neilhannan5112 yeah that definitely makes sense. Her father was all she had left, so what could she do? She didn’t want to lose him like she lost her mother and brother. She didn’t want him to give up.
Really had me thinking he would give up dark magic and live the rest of his life in peace… Until he saw Rayla, the girl who pushed him off the storm spire.
i like the subtle symbolism here. in S1 viren says that he's a servant, and Amai counters by signing that his clothes are awfully nice for a servant, and after he's been knocked off his high horse, his clothes look like something a humble servant would wear, signifying that he's a changed man
Such a nice detail I never even noticed. Now being a true servant of Death. Not as a harbinger, not as a tempest, but as an old man who is now ready for what's to come after. He will still live. But that isn't all. He'll thrive. For any time he has left. For the first time, since he was born, he is no longer shackled by the ties he has on earth. Not his wife. Not his rank as a high mage. Just as a man.
This is easily one of the best scenes in the show. It was good seeing someone as pompous and arrogant as Viren be humbled and realize what was at stake.
Let's be honest, we can't blame Claudia, she just wants her dad to be alive. But it's true that she should let Viren do the things he wanted if that really was his wish.
I really think Viren could have found peace right here. But the problem is Claudia. She can't handle rejection, or even being able to chose between something and it's costing her dearly. She may become worse than her father ever was later on.
Lol To his point, Claudia does amazing magic and even brought him back to life. Soren is just a good guardsman/swordsman. Pretty big divide there. That said, Viren should have mentioned his son who chose good over his evil father, whom he loved. That right there takes a lot of strength!
I'm not the only one who was invested more into Viren and Aaravos (despite him not even showing up past the one episode) this season than any of the other characters. They really felt like the main characters this season.
@@cgecko3 probably because Team Viren actually grew in character despite Viren himself having been dead for two years. Meanwhile, we have Team Ezran being all dorky, awkward and cringey as if they hadn't grown at all in two years aside from Callum mastering magic. Really underwhelming. But I was always more interested in Team Viren anyway, so I am content that way.
Can we get some psychology majors here to talk about this and the "get a grip" scenes. This writing is so good it scares me sometimes. I know there's a lot to dissect in tdp when speaking of human emotion and relationships. Of course I can't complain about the actors and animation teams as well. This here show is criminally underrated.
Really? I thought it have used less. Not a whole lot happened in this season and some of it felt like padding. I don't mind because it still enjoyable. But it didn't feel like their usual epic seasons.
Tbh it really needed a re-worked plot. It ended abruptly and for the most part barely anything happened. We just got exposition to explain Aaravos' past (which kinda ruined a bit of the mystery)
It needed another 10 episodes. I was really disapointed with this season as they crammed too many good storylines into so few episodes and this season felt like a set up for future seasons which explains why it was so rushed I think
I'm glad this scene exists. I always thought of Viren as a villain, and its rare for me to see villains reach a point where they are humbled and reflect on their experiences to be different people.
I always loved viren as a character. I’ve never seen him as pure evil, just a man who wanted the best for humanity and was willing to do anything for it. At the same time he’s done awful things, pushed and pushed his son to the breaking point. He’s such a complex antag
Viren did a Gollum here. So close to redemption, and yet he let it slip out of his grasp in the end. And not even ONCE did he mention Soren here. His son was dead to him, or so it felt, ever since he "turned his back on him" to side with King Ezran.
It was long before then...Viren loathes Soren. It's been hinted at, that for Viren, Soren is his bastard son who caused his divorce. "The failed son who's father wishes he was never born. ouch." From the beginning of season 1 Viren has hated Soren, we got some moments that out of context were harmless interactions between them (Soren history is like a seesaw, etc.) But with context we can tell he isn't just exasperated by Soren's antics he flat out is tired of Soren as a person. One of the best scenes that portrays Viren's feelings towards Soren is when Claudia asks Viren if she should choose the egg or Soren. He hesitates but, finally answers "the egg" his voice isn't that of worry despite his long pause it's deep and cold. Viren also has no trouble gaslighting Soren and telling him indirectly that his life doesn't matter. In season 3 we get a very subtle scene when Soren rejects Viren's demand to turn him into a mindless lava monster, Viren looks back at Soren with a look of pure contempt. He never physically attacks Soren but it seemed like he wanted to Lunge at Soren when he was imprisoned. Even in this season we see Viren show Soren contempt they don't share a single word exchanged with eachother but, Viren looks at him with clear Disdain in his face. It isn't just that Viren loves Claudia more than Soren, it's that he doesn't love Soren at all, he lost any affection towards Soren long before the show even started, and it wasn't even Soren's fault. Viren is truly a 3d villain.
Some people are really misunderstanding Claudia here and that's what I don't get. Saying things like "it's all her fault and whatnot". Let's look at it from her point of view. Her dad died. She found his body broken and "more mangled that the bent crown". That does something to people. She didnt give up tho. For 2 years, 2 freaking years she stayed and tried everything in her power to bring him back. Even doing things she said she never even knew she was capable of doing. She gave up her whole morality. So to hear Viren talking about just giving everything up and going for travelling adventures is a no no. I get Viren and all, he's tired and just wants to enjoy the little time he has left with his daughter. But putting yourself in Claudia's shoes, she feels he is scared, has given up and ready to accept the little time he has, even after she spent 2 years of her life not giving up on him. So she's ready to be his pillar till he's strong enough to walk on his own again. She's loyal and loves her dad, he's the only family she has left and she's not going to allow him to die again. The girl is at her breaking point and honestly, I'm surprised she even has enough optimism to keep the group together.
The amazing thing about Claudia is that she's still so bubbly and cheerful despite all the pain she's gone through. It's difficult to even consider her a villain because she's such a sweet person, so you keep having to remind yourself that she will kill to achieve her goals. She doesn't care about power or status but she's just as dangerous as Viren because she will do literally ANYTHING for the people she loves. If destroying the entire world convinced Aaravos to save Viren, she would do it without hesitation. She wouldn't take any pleasure in it but if she had to decide between the world and her dad's life, there's no choice in Claudia's mind. It goes to show how destructive love can be.
Life must certainly look different after death. The fact he was content with his fate. I find it ironic Claudia starts wearing a familiar french-braid, but she’s unable to ‘let it go’.
i so hope Viren turns against his daughter, and chooses peace as his daughter becomes more and more like him, and with his last days chooses to help stop Aaravos, or help the cause in some way. I hope he meets up with Soren at least one more time, and gives his life for his son. Honestly, i see this turning to where Claudia's obession with "taking care of her dad" becomes so twisted that even Viren has to walk away from it. A change of perspective indeed
Viren honestly reminds me of Thanos in that, while I don't agree with his fear-driven ambitions and his "bright future for humanity", I believe that HE believes it. I applaud the writers for not creating a villain who does evil just because he's bad. He genuinely believes in this Xadian threat across the Border and that nobody else can see it or is equipped to do what's necessary. Sometimes he fails and sometimes he's on top. He's frankly the best written character in this show
Yeah, I mean when assassins kill your king, put large forces on your border & have dragons flying over your cities, & all the council cares about is protocol I would see that as a threat to humanity like Viren.
It's nice seeing this scene It adds more nuance to Viren. He was always an "a-hole with a point" before season 3. Here, he wants to turn a new leaf and move on with what limited time he has left. I also understand why Claudia is acting this way, she does love her father like any daughter would. I think on the inside, Viren wants her to stop, mostly because he is still her father. And it's his job to protect her.
Could there yet be some hope for Viren? It seemed a given before that Viren would spiral and receive a karmic death by the end and maybe Claudia would break out of it like Soren did, but both of them seem even less certain than before. After all, how many villains spiral, receive a karmic death, *and get to reflect back on it?* Even with as far gone as she is, it's not hard to sympathize with Claudia. Given an opportunity to save someone so close to me, I don't know what _I'd_ be capable of.
this scene genuinely made me crying because we got to see viren in this state in which we have never seen before. it’s rare for us to hear things coming from the villain in any show, and it was so sincere and it killed me that claudia couldn’t understand
I just recently discovered this show when I saw a new season came out on Netflix, and I decided to watch it and this show is super Awsome, I watch the whole thing in 2 days and now I’m so anxious to see season 5!👍
This scene and a few subsequent ones had me thinking they would do something cool with Viren's character... return some nuance and sympathy to him after knowing death and learning to value mortality. Nope, instead in the last episode they just shove the staff back in his hands and make him evil again. This season really kind of let me down
at this point claudia pushed him into finding arravos, claudia has sacrificed to much for her father (other stuff during the two seasons), so when he had said what he said in this scene (after dying and in a way where they could've spent their time griving together and being happyish when moving on), i feel like her true feelings were triggered with anxiety, denial of letting go of her father, the person she's become, and the things she done up to this point of this story in this scene. All she is misguided, she is a very kind and silly person, but her father got obsessed with power and muliputlatied into , it sucks, im very excited where her character deveplment go
For me, I got a feeling that once Aaravos is free, he won't save Viren, not because he can't but he just won't. So Viren will die again. If he dies, am I the only one who wants to play his death with sympathy? Now he'll worry of his daughter, Claudia, being already an asset to Aaravos. He wanted to warn her, but it'll be sadly too late.
Aaravos is the Devil of The Dragon Prince's universe. As soon as Viren and Claudia stop being useful to him, he'll toss them aside. It always happens if you make a deal with the Devil.
Viren could have been so nice if he just enjoyed life. It's sad Claudia is becoming what Viren used to be. Also very sad he didn't even MENTION Soren his SON.
I'm only part-way through the season but I can't help but feel the show is the most tonally bipolar bit of television that I've ever seen. It'll go from silly (Elf farts) to this then immediately back to silly sometimes without a scene cut, then... it's a lot. It's always felt like someone's D&D campaign they made a TV show out of and that's fine. Shows don't have to be brooding, Snyder-style grimdark or whatnot, but it's so weird to go from giggling with This-Elf-Totally-Isn't-Korg fart jokes to this deep, intense look at how trauma can shape a person all in the same scenes. I initially thought they were going to let the main cast have grown into their roles and use the silly dialogue to highlight that they've grown but not lost the lighthearted characters underneath it then Claudia would have this arc of covering the awful things that arise out of maladaptive coping with trauma by use of a fantasy lens... then nope, just, straight from "I have have to do some shit to get us here to this point... *thousand yard stare*" to "Eee Daddy lookit my booooyfriiiiiiend.. his farts smell *delightful!*" and I was so confused by all of it. I say this as someone who's ADHD: Half way through season 4 and thus far show has the weirdest, most erratic storytelling sensibilities and would greatly benefit from a tighter thematic vision. @.@
why am I suddenly getting this weird feeling that even if Aaravos promises to even help Claudia to keep her father alive why do I get this bad feeling that she's going to end up just like that sorcerer that challenge the dragon that he burned his face
I actually hope Viren doesn't make it past 30 days, because I don't know how else Claudia will be able to let go of the past or else stay a tragic character.
Interesting side fact: 7 Cakes of Xadia? I'm so used that there are 6 versions of everything that I wonder: What type of cakes are these and what meaning do they have?
This event truly opened my eyes to how selfish Claudia can be at times. Her father died and to him, it was just a few hours ago. And what does she asked him to do? TO CLIMB THE MOUNTAIN HE FELL FROM! That's like getting stabbed and handing the victim the knife still fresh with your blood. She had no regards to his or other people's feelings and can't seem to accept things, like with Soren and her father. I'm scared for Terry's life in Season 5, i truly am...
I was disappointed with many aspects of season 4, but this scene was incredible. Viren was easily the best part of the show this season (until his abrupt heel turn at the end).
Not going to lie. I love this show.but this season just kinda felt like filler amd that they didn't really know what to do with it and they didn't go anywhere.
Aaravos really jacked up Viren’s brain if he’s willing to change- 💀 Anyway, it’s sad to see how Viren could have been, but never was. And Autocrrect needs to be thrown off the storm spire because it autocorrected “Aaravos” to “Sara is” 😭
Doing dark magic was truly the downfall of Viren. Without it you can see the man He was. I hope we'll get more of him than just a pawn of Araavos in S5.
I loved this life lessen from Viren so much that i Cried 😢 in season 1 and 3 i hated him most of the time but now here i love him i fully support what he wants now i love to see Villains changing their ways in stories or turning to the good side this is a life lesson that we needed to hear especially from Viren.
Aravos sounds a lot like Erebos who is the primordial God of darkness so I don't think this is a coincidence maybe he'll have the powers of erebus darkness maipulation
Gaaah I just binge watched seasons 1-4! So much love for this series. I loved it because it has ATLA (with its main cast composition) & GoT (with its theme scoring and dragons) vibe. This can actually be a sister lore for ATLA with the heart-warming easter eggs that pay homage to it 💚 I'm very much attached to the world of Xadia now and how battle between morals will be resolved into the best solution for everyone for a true era of peace, both magic & human folks. Looking forward to the rest of the seasons 🥰
Ok but like, while I like that he tried to change but like a little too late, like Claudia had to do things that she couldn't even imagine and Virens just like yeah, but character growth!
Surprise surprise that people are complex individuals capable of growth as individuals. Growth just isn't for protagonists nor is all growth towards the same goals as others.
I like this scene because it shows both how Viren is capable of regret and change, but also how he will never be truly rid of all of his faults. For example, he didn’t even think to mention SOREN his SON and how he could use this time to possibly make some amends or at least see him one more time. But nope doesn’t seem to cross his mind once. (poor soren)
to be honest, that was one of his main faults. they try to play him off as an anti-hero who wants whats best for humanity when he's clearly evil to the core. same for claudia. stop putting it off and just finish her villain arc already.
and yes, I am aware he's supposed to be disillusioned with how noble he thinks he is. the difference is that unlike, say, judge frollo, who's much the same as a disillusioned villain and just convinces himself he's doing the right thing, Viren shows genuinely good parts of him. this wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the writers constantly showing him as undeniably evil; telling his children to kill the princes, not caring about soren, assassinating the monarchs, imprisoning the interpreter, turning his army into a generic army of minions (so much for the moral dilemma of a war between humanity vs elves the series has been hinting at for the entirety of its showtime.) this overall makes him, at least in my opinion, less of a conflicted and morally grey villain and more a confusing one.
I will admit that aaravos's presence made him worse over time, but before then he had "I'm super evil" moments and during he had "I'm not that bad" moments.
@@hollowshield2315 her villain arc will end once her hair is all white
It seems like at the end when he used dark magic, he turned back to his own self
Couldn't have said it better
his failure to mention or think about Soren seems more like a writing flaw lmao
I don’t know what’s more sad: the fact that Viren could have changed into a good man in those last few moments, or the fact that Claudia is turning into her father?
Let's just say both
I think it's fascinating, here, how close Viren got to turning away and choosing a better path, but he had already sent Claudia down that path for too long. She's the one who pulls him back from the brink of trying to be better, to push him back down the dark path thay's already killed him once. They're destroying each other
@@bananasinfrench Thank goodness at least Soren managed to escape from that toxic mess.
Turning into her father? Nah bro, I'm calling it now, Claudia is going to be a bigger threat than Viren ever was.
I mean there was even that scene where Claudia used his gold staff and Viren was like "Huh, I didn't know it could do that."
@@bluebird1914 And who knows what she did during those two years on her quest, and by the sound of it, she did some horrible things
We live long enough to see Viren give one of the biggest life lessons of ALL the shows!
Afterlife lesson if you think about it.
@@MartinG1993 Really! He only learned to value life after he died.
Honestly Viren has to be one of the best characters on the show for how wonderfully complex he is.
Agreed because without him we don't have a villa in the story
@@W1zardoux What "villa"?
@@DragonGoddess18 i think they meant villain
Lord Viren is such a profound and complex character...really was why I got so hooked in the first season. I think George RR Martin would approve of him. He's literally very human, in both his nature and identity in this age old conflict with the elves. Shame he already led his daughter in way too deep. Half her hair is white now!!! She's going to have to start sacrificing magical butterflies soon, to appear normal...
Ohhhn, how right you are.
Viren is an S-tier character and I loved every bit of his arc this season! I didn’t expect his interactions with Terry to be so wholesome 🥺
"GET a grip!"
Viren's monologue reminded me of when Soren talked about becoming a poet after he broke his back. In these 2 scenes both were trying to make the best of a terrible situation & appreciate what they could enjoy.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
When the chips are down, Soren and Viren are sometimes more similar than the both of them think.
They both realize that, being evil, being cruel, striving for power, for approval, for status.
None of it matters in the face of absolution.
And both of them can accept that.
It's such a wonderful thought process they both go through.
Ironically though, Claudia, despite her not exactly great motivations, has been the one to keep them both willing to keep living. FUCK I LOVE THE VIREN FAMILY, THEY ARE ALL SO COMPLICATED.
The moment in the earlier seasons when Viren corrected Aaravos from calling Claudia just an “asset” was what sold me on him as a character. This just further proves I was right in being sold. He’s not black and white, but very complex
They actually have a flashback of that scene in episode 7 of this season, so clearly it's an important one and probably sign of where Viren's story is going.
all these themes about death, the last days of life and achieving inner peace have always been very sensitive topics for me, in a good and bad way, and the way they handled it in this episode was AMAZING, i even *cried* while watching it. i never thought i would ever sympathize so much with viren, it seemed impossible...
I watched the whole season in one day
So did I, watched the whole thing with a friend. And we got Popeyes
Not even a whole day 😅, now i'm suffering waiting for season 5
Same, now I need season 5 urgently 😭😭
@@habib-al-aziz feels weird saying that I’m waiting for season 5 now
Did it in 2 days
God I really wanted Viren to change in that moment. Sad that Claudia ruined what could’ve been his redemption.
I mean, he could have lived and just decided to be a better person.
Claudia was Refuse to appect the fact that Her dad wants to be die in 30 days season 2 if you remember When Caludia and Erzan were Talking she said that her parents divorce and she and soren had to choose between her mother and viren she was Trama that this and Soren during Invasion of Xadia left because Soren know that Viren was wrong and Caludia was upset again. To her this is her family breaking up again now Viren is all she has Left in this world and She said she had to do things that she didn't think she could Maybe Sacrifice someone IE Saleer the council member who support Viren being King If you have a good look and the ending for Season 3 there is a dead body in the cave looking like him. And can't accept that the fact that Viren is evil and Aaravos is using her strings like a puppet maybe a new partner Someone stronger in dark magic than Viren
@@bleh329 he had the option to, but Claudia convinced him to keep going. Which stopped him.
@@neilhannan5112 yeah that definitely makes sense. Her father was all she had left, so what could she do? She didn’t want to lose him like she lost her mother and brother. She didn’t want him to give up.
I dont want him to change
Really had me thinking he would give up dark magic and live the rest of his life in peace…
Until he saw Rayla, the girl who pushed him off the storm spire.
Ooh, revenge tiiiiime.
WAIT NO REVENGE TIME NOO
@@bidaiamagic Well he didn't go for revenge there. He could have easily killed her at that moment in episode 9
i like the subtle symbolism here.
in S1 viren says that he's a servant, and Amai counters by signing that his clothes are awfully nice for a servant, and after he's been knocked off his high horse, his clothes look like something a humble servant would wear, signifying that he's a changed man
Oh I didn't even think of that :O
Such a nice detail I never even noticed.
Now being a true servant of Death.
Not as a harbinger, not as a tempest, but as an old man who is now ready for what's to come after.
He will still live.
But that isn't all. He'll thrive. For any time he has left.
For the first time, since he was born, he is no longer shackled by the ties he has on earth. Not his wife. Not his rank as a high mage. Just as a man.
This is easily one of the best scenes in the show. It was good seeing someone as pompous and arrogant as Viren be humbled and realize what was at stake.
Let's be honest, we can't blame Claudia, she just wants her dad to be alive. But it's true that she should let Viren do the things he wanted if that really was his wish.
we can and do blame Claudia, thank you very much.
That is a good way to show a fallen character when something inarguably good leads to horrible deeds.
I mean, she spent the last two years doing horrible things she hated doing to bring him back.
@@charliefarmer4365 too bad we haven't seen any of her newfound darkness till the very end
@@charliefarmer4365 True
I smiled so much during his speech, and then Claudia just slapped him, and I burst out laughing. LOL
I really think Viren could have found peace right here.
But the problem is Claudia. She can't handle rejection, or even being able to chose between something and it's costing her dearly. She may become worse than her father ever was later on.
I really love Viren, he's very complex and always interesting. This is how you create a good antagonist.
I watched the whole season
Waiting for more episodes
Y'all have us in suspense lol
DRAGON PRINCE IS AWESOME
fr
Viren: "....my daughter, who is the most special person I have ever known."
I'm glad Soren didn't hear that 😢
Lol
To his point, Claudia does amazing magic and even brought him back to life. Soren is just a good guardsman/swordsman. Pretty big divide there.
That said, Viren should have mentioned his son who chose good over his evil father, whom he loved. That right there takes a lot of strength!
This is the peak of the season, Viren and Aaravos are hard carrying this show right now
I'm not the only one who was invested more into Viren and Aaravos (despite him not even showing up past the one episode) this season than any of the other characters. They really felt like the main characters this season.
@@cgecko3 probably because Team Viren actually grew in character despite Viren himself having been dead for two years.
Meanwhile, we have Team Ezran being all dorky, awkward and cringey as if they hadn't grown at all in two years aside from Callum mastering magic. Really underwhelming.
But I was always more interested in Team Viren anyway, so I am content that way.
Can we get some psychology majors here to talk about this and the "get a grip" scenes. This writing is so good it scares me sometimes. I know there's a lot to dissect in tdp when speaking of human emotion and relationships. Of course I can't complain about the actors and animation teams as well.
This here show is criminally underrated.
So, I gotta be honest, it really feels like Season 4 needs one more episode... lol.
Really? I thought it have used less. Not a whole lot happened in this season and some of it felt like padding. I don't mind because it still enjoyable. But it didn't feel like their usual epic seasons.
Tbh it really needed a re-worked plot. It ended abruptly and for the most part barely anything happened. We just got exposition to explain Aaravos' past (which kinda ruined a bit of the mystery)
It needed another 10 episodes. I was really disapointed with this season as they crammed too many good storylines into so few episodes and this season felt like a set up for future seasons which explains why it was so rushed I think
They needed more episodes cause the plot lines are good and personally I liked the Sun elves plot if mostly for the world building
They could add 15 minutes to each episode.
I'm glad this scene exists. I always thought of Viren as a villain, and its rare for me to see villains reach a point where they are humbled and reflect on their experiences to be different people.
0:14-1:45
Me when my family force me to get on the rollercoaster for the first time
I always loved viren as a character. I’ve never seen him as pure evil, just a man who wanted the best for humanity and was willing to do anything for it. At the same time he’s done awful things, pushed and pushed his son to the breaking point. He’s such a complex antag
Claudia is an ideal daughter.... She knows how cruel her father is but still she always cares for him...,. Finally now viren changing.....
Bro wants to finally rest but knowing he really wont back down. The slap caught me so off guard💀
Viren did a Gollum here. So close to redemption, and yet he let it slip out of his grasp in the end.
And not even ONCE did he mention Soren here. His son was dead to him, or so it felt, ever since he "turned his back on him" to side with King Ezran.
It was long before then...Viren loathes Soren. It's been hinted at, that for Viren, Soren is his bastard son who caused his divorce. "The failed son who's father wishes he was never born. ouch." From the beginning of season 1 Viren has hated Soren, we got some moments that out of context were harmless interactions between them (Soren history is like a seesaw, etc.) But with context we can tell he isn't just exasperated by Soren's antics he flat out is tired of Soren as a person. One of the best scenes that portrays Viren's feelings towards Soren is when Claudia asks Viren if she should choose the egg or Soren. He hesitates but, finally answers "the egg" his voice isn't that of worry despite his long pause it's deep and cold. Viren also has no trouble gaslighting Soren and telling him indirectly that his life doesn't matter. In season 3 we get a very subtle scene when Soren rejects Viren's demand to turn him into a mindless lava monster, Viren looks back at Soren with a look of pure contempt. He never physically attacks Soren but it seemed like he wanted to Lunge at Soren when he was imprisoned. Even in this season we see Viren show Soren contempt they don't share a single word exchanged with eachother but, Viren looks at him with clear Disdain in his face. It isn't just that Viren loves Claudia more than Soren, it's that he doesn't love Soren at all, he lost any affection towards Soren long before the show even started, and it wasn't even Soren's fault. Viren is truly a 3d villain.
Even cold heart villains know how to spend their last moments in peace
Some people are really misunderstanding Claudia here and that's what I don't get. Saying things like "it's all her fault and whatnot". Let's look at it from her point of view. Her dad died. She found his body broken and "more mangled that the bent crown". That does something to people. She didnt give up tho. For 2 years, 2 freaking years she stayed and tried everything in her power to bring him back. Even doing things she said she never even knew she was capable of doing. She gave up her whole morality. So to hear Viren talking about just giving everything up and going for travelling adventures is a no no. I get Viren and all, he's tired and just wants to enjoy the little time he has left with his daughter. But putting yourself in Claudia's shoes, she feels he is scared, has given up and ready to accept the little time he has, even after she spent 2 years of her life not giving up on him. So she's ready to be his pillar till he's strong enough to walk on his own again. She's loyal and loves her dad, he's the only family she has left and she's not going to allow him to die again. The girl is at her breaking point and honestly, I'm surprised she even has enough optimism to keep the group together.
Beautifully said; I totally agree
The amazing thing about Claudia is that she's still so bubbly and cheerful despite all the pain she's gone through. It's difficult to even consider her a villain because she's such a sweet person, so you keep having to remind yourself that she will kill to achieve her goals. She doesn't care about power or status but she's just as dangerous as Viren because she will do literally ANYTHING for the people she loves. If destroying the entire world convinced Aaravos to save Viren, she would do it without hesitation. She wouldn't take any pleasure in it but if she had to decide between the world and her dad's life, there's no choice in Claudia's mind. It goes to show how destructive love can be.
Life must certainly look different after death. The fact he was content with his fate. I find it ironic Claudia starts wearing a familiar french-braid, but she’s unable to ‘let it go’.
I really liked Viren this season. Such character growth!
Damn Cloudia! Let you’re father redeem!!!!
Viren really is an interesting character. He is one of the antagonists but he isn't evil. He was even likeable for most of this season.
I can't believe you guys made me sympathise with Viren. I absolutely loathe the guy, so this came as a surprise.
OMGG this season was good!! I watched all episodes in one day!!
OMG SAAAME THOUGH
i so hope Viren turns against his daughter, and chooses peace as his daughter becomes more and more like him, and with his last days chooses to help stop Aaravos, or help the cause in some way. I hope he meets up with Soren at least one more time, and gives his life for his son. Honestly, i see this turning to where Claudia's obession with "taking care of her dad" becomes so twisted that even Viren has to walk away from it. A change of perspective indeed
I would like to borrow your magic mirror and/or crystal ball.
@@TheMrPeteChannel yooo looking back lol it’s crazy accurate. As a writer I’m proud 😊
@@jaypuck5783HA ha! Cheers!
Please for the love of God keep the show going for as long as possible 🐉 👑
Viren honestly reminds me of Thanos in that, while I don't agree with his fear-driven ambitions and his "bright future for humanity", I believe that HE believes it. I applaud the writers for not creating a villain who does evil just because he's bad. He genuinely believes in this Xadian threat across the Border and that nobody else can see it or is equipped to do what's necessary. Sometimes he fails and sometimes he's on top. He's frankly the best written character in this show
Yeah, I mean when assassins kill your king, put large forces on your border & have dragons flying over your cities, & all the council cares about is protocol I would see that as a threat to humanity like Viren.
He could've had a great redemption ark if Claudia hadn't insisted on them looking for Aaravos instead :\
Can you really blame her though? She fr traumatized
I love Viren's character
Definitely works better without the fart jokes.
It's nice seeing this scene
It adds more nuance to Viren. He was always an "a-hole with a point" before season 3. Here, he wants to turn a new leaf and move on with what limited time he has left.
I also understand why Claudia is acting this way, she does love her father like any daughter would. I think on the inside, Viren wants her to stop, mostly because he is still her father. And it's his job to protect her.
Could there yet be some hope for Viren? It seemed a given before that Viren would spiral and receive a karmic death by the end and maybe Claudia would break out of it like Soren did, but both of them seem even less certain than before. After all, how many villains spiral, receive a karmic death, *and get to reflect back on it?*
Even with as far gone as she is, it's not hard to sympathize with Claudia. Given an opportunity to save someone so close to me, I don't know what _I'd_ be capable of.
this scene genuinely made me crying because we got to see viren in this state in which we have never seen before. it’s rare for us to hear things coming from the villain in any show, and it was so sincere and it killed me that claudia couldn’t understand
I just recently discovered this show when I saw a new season came out on Netflix, and I decided to watch it and this show is super Awsome, I watch the whole thing in 2 days and now I’m so anxious to see season 5!👍
This scene and a few subsequent ones had me thinking they would do something cool with Viren's character... return some nuance and sympathy to him after knowing death and learning to value mortality. Nope, instead in the last episode they just shove the staff back in his hands and make him evil again. This season really kind of let me down
I'm pretty sure he was possessed, watch the end credit art
The slap was personal😭😭
It was great!
It is sad that they hadn't explored this theme deeper. Would have contributed to more complex character development.
Yet, at the end of the season. The evil within the staff has brought Lord Viren's evil back
This and the get a grub scene is my favorite since
Grub?
Claudia has some serious difficulty with letting things go and acceptance.
This was definitely the most interesting part of the episode and Claudia came along and ruined it lol there goes our chance at a Viren redemption arc
This season was phenomenal!
Dying changes perspective a lot.
at this point claudia pushed him into finding arravos, claudia has sacrificed to much for her father (other stuff during the two seasons), so when he had said what he said in this scene (after dying and in a way where they could've spent their time griving together and being happyish when moving on), i feel like her true feelings were triggered with anxiety, denial of letting go of her father, the person she's become, and the things she done up to this point of this story in this scene. All she is misguided, she is a very kind and silly person, but her father got obsessed with power and muliputlatied into , it sucks, im very excited where her character deveplment go
For me, I got a feeling that once Aaravos is free, he won't save Viren, not because he can't but he just won't. So Viren will die again. If he dies, am I the only one who wants to play his death with sympathy? Now he'll worry of his daughter, Claudia, being already an asset to Aaravos. He wanted to warn her, but it'll be sadly too late.
Aaravos is the Devil of The Dragon Prince's universe. As soon as Viren and Claudia stop being useful to him, he'll toss them aside. It always happens if you make a deal with the Devil.
I think most likely he'll Claudia that she has to let him go in his final scene.
Viren could have been so nice if he just enjoyed life. It's sad Claudia is becoming what Viren used to be. Also very sad he didn't even MENTION Soren his SON.
I'm only part-way through the season but I can't help but feel the show is the most tonally bipolar bit of television that I've ever seen. It'll go from silly (Elf farts) to this then immediately back to silly sometimes without a scene cut, then... it's a lot.
It's always felt like someone's D&D campaign they made a TV show out of and that's fine. Shows don't have to be brooding, Snyder-style grimdark or whatnot, but it's so weird to go from giggling with This-Elf-Totally-Isn't-Korg fart jokes to this deep, intense look at how trauma can shape a person all in the same scenes.
I initially thought they were going to let the main cast have grown into their roles and use the silly dialogue to highlight that they've grown but not lost the lighthearted characters underneath it then Claudia would have this arc of covering the awful things that arise out of maladaptive coping with trauma by use of a fantasy lens... then nope, just, straight from "I have have to do some shit to get us here to this point... *thousand yard stare*" to "Eee Daddy lookit my booooyfriiiiiiend.. his farts smell *delightful!*" and I was so confused by all of it.
I say this as someone who's ADHD: Half way through season 4 and thus far show has the weirdest, most erratic storytelling sensibilities and would greatly benefit from a tighter thematic vision. @.@
I am desperate for Season 5 already....hope it gets announced soon.
Cant wait til Season 5
Watched all the season love it
Between this and Terry, Viren will likely have a redemption arc and cause Claudia to repent too
DRAYGONS
God I love Claudia’s VA.
Cah-neeeeeyyy-dian.
Dang, the way she just SLAPPED him is just hilarious!
Best slap since Batman did it to Robin.
Genuinely the best scene in a bad season
man.
Viren's speech reminded me a bit too much of the end of Cyberpunk 2077 and now I wanna cry.
why am I suddenly getting this weird feeling that even if Aaravos promises to even help Claudia to keep her father alive why do I get this bad feeling that she's going to end up just like that sorcerer that challenge the dragon that he burned his face
I agree with comments complimenting Soren's character writing.
I want to add that it's the same for Claudia: she does not let go.
I love the new season but I wish it had more episodes
Why make it seem like he could have an arc, and then just ...not focus on the character again?
I actually hope Viren doesn't make it past 30 days, because I don't know how else Claudia will be able to let go of the past or else stay a tragic character.
Loved this season
I NEED ANOTHER SEASON PLEASE
Or the rest of season 4... Lol
Interesting side fact:
7 Cakes of Xadia?
I'm so used that there are 6 versions of everything that I wonder: What type of cakes are these and what meaning do they have?
Anyone else watch all of season 4 first day it was out...?
Just me...?
I am sad that I finished the season already and now have nothing more :(
Watch it again!
This event truly opened my eyes to how selfish Claudia can be at times. Her father died and to him, it was just a few hours ago. And what does she asked him to do? TO CLIMB THE MOUNTAIN HE FELL FROM! That's like getting stabbed and handing the victim the knife still fresh with your blood. She had no regards to his or other people's feelings and can't seem to accept things, like with Soren and her father. I'm scared for Terry's life in Season 5, i truly am...
I was disappointed with many aspects of season 4, but this scene was incredible. Viren was easily the best part of the show this season (until his abrupt heel turn at the end).
He was doing so well right up until he saw the person who pushed him off of a cliff...
Not going to lie. I love this show.but this season just kinda felt like filler amd that they didn't really know what to do with it and they didn't go anywhere.
definitely agree
Definitely agree as well. Every episode after just started to not be as interesting after Rayla and Callum reunited imo.
This season was definitely setup for season 5, just like how season 2 was setup for season 3
Aaravos really jacked up Viren’s brain if he’s willing to change- 💀
Anyway, it’s sad to see how Viren could have been, but never was.
And Autocrrect needs to be thrown off the storm spire because it autocorrected “Aaravos” to “Sara is” 😭
Doing dark magic was truly the downfall of Viren. Without it you can see the man He was.
I hope we'll get more of him than just a pawn of Araavos in S5.
I loved this life lessen from Viren so much that i Cried 😢 in season 1 and 3 i hated him most of the time but now here i love him i fully support what he wants now i love to see Villains changing their ways in stories or turning to the good side this is a life lesson that we needed to hear especially from Viren.
This was the best series in my oppion keep up the good work I hope we season 5
Kinda messed up that he didn't mention Soren at all though.
Maybe it would've crossed his mind eventually if claudia didn't slap him like that, and just talk about how they need to find aaravos ASAP!
I'm pretty sure that he no longer sees Soren as his son.
Remember: the only reason ANY of this happened is because Avizandum was a prick.
Bro I need season 5!!!!
Viren has got to be one of the best characters
This part is really crazy and I was just shocked she slapped him
Season 4 would have been better without the sunfire elf politics
Aravos sounds a lot like Erebos who is the primordial God of darkness so I don't think this is a coincidence maybe he'll have the powers of erebus darkness maipulation
Gaaah I just binge watched seasons 1-4! So much love for this series. I loved it because it has ATLA (with its main cast composition) & GoT (with its theme scoring and dragons) vibe. This can actually be a sister lore for ATLA with the heart-warming easter eggs that pay homage to it 💚 I'm very much attached to the world of Xadia now and how battle between morals will be resolved into the best solution for everyone for a true era of peace, both magic & human folks. Looking forward to the rest of the seasons 🥰
I think he was just obsessed all the time. I think that’s the clear head Viren 😭
So.. if you did have a whole month to live, would you spend your life chasing or enjoying? ( ͡ಠ ʖ̯ ͡ಠ)
Ok but like, while I like that he tried to change but like a little too late, like Claudia had to do things that she couldn't even imagine and Virens just like yeah, but character growth!
Theory: In the end Viren will sacrifice himself to safe Claudias life. They will have a change of heart in a very tragic way.
That mean like in itachi way that just broke my heart
I was shocked she slapped him likeeeeeeeeeeee
You should not do datttt
I love this series
Surprise surprise that people are complex individuals capable of growth as individuals. Growth just isn't for protagonists nor is all growth towards the same goals as others.