I think it’s notable that Amphibia and The Owl House also had creative blood from Gravity Falls as selling points, but to a lot of people, the shows stepped out of its shadow to form their own distinctive identities defined by their creators, and while I don’t think either show is as consistently strong as Gravity Falls, I think their peaks can hit harder. Meanwhile with Dragon Prince I don’t get that sense; I liked what I saw (just the first two seasons) but I don’t think it’s escaped Avatar’s shadow yet and I still mostly just think back to that more than enjoying the show on its own merits
Yeah, I’d definitely agree with that. You can still see Gravity Falls influence on Amphibia and Owl House but it’s not like either one is trying to replicate GF structurally. If anything, Amphibia and Owl House are more similar to each other than they are GF, but they’re great examples of showrunner’s learning from previous success but not tying themselves to it. It’s a double-edged sword with the Dragon Prince, because the more like ATLA it is, the more it appeals to ATLA fans, but then you’re basically asking for the shows to be compared and right now, I’m not sure TDP can go toe-to-toe with ATLA on anything.
It's kinda weird. Dragon Prince feels very much like the culmination of the Netflix philosophy to just create 'content'. The show is, inoffensive, and engaging enough to leave playing while I'm doing things around the house. But absolutely nothing about it sticks out or resonates in way that makes me really remember any given episode or moment.
It's crazy to me how much praise Gravity Falls gets. I don't get it. It's story driven sure but I'd argue The Owl House is a lot more story driven and darker. I liked The Owl House a lot more. I'd say out of Disney's modern story driven cartoons, Star vs. The Forces of Evil and The Owl House are the best by a long shot. Amphibia wasn't that good to me. Lots of filler, boring cast, and the humans were more interesting.
@@Bustermachine Fully agree with this. Dragon Prince, especially after the latest season just feels like it exists of that makes sense. That hiatus killed them.
@sirmel11 i think the reason gravity fall gets so much recognition is because it knew how to make their fans work. In that aspect Owl house nor amphibia can't even hold a candle to Gravity falls. It doesn't seem like it because all the mysteries already been revealed and the show already ended in todays time but back in the day, fan community was completely different than fans now days cause there is nothing to to solve anymore. Gravity falls knew how to make the fans perfectly go crazy through hidden message's and mysteries. Everybody who actually was in the middle of the peak fan economy during the show was still running and releasing new episodes for the fans. Lets just say that Gravity falls fans in the past had completely different kind of fan atmosphere than Owl house and Amphibia fans. Sure there was normal fans also there but it had far more focused and imaginative and wild fan base than Owl house and amphibia. Their fans themselves acted as bonus and their thoeries where actually really intuitive and interesting and every single content creator based around GF having their own future development of GF story was just made Gravity falls fandom a absolute once in life time kind of fandom atmosphere. (what i mean fan economy is that fans making their own conspiracy and theories about the GF world etc. Its fans literally desperately looking into every bit of nook and cranny of the show to explore and predict mysteries or imaginary mysteries. Overall fandoms engagment in short i guess😅)
Agreed. The “boomerang” and “yip yip” jokes were JARRING, and are given such drawn-out prominence that hardcore dragon prince fans who’ve NOT seen avatar *are alienated from their own show.* Avatar should not be required background to fully understand the show you’re watching! Gags like the post-credit scenes and staff/boomerang in Rex Igneous’s lair aren’t intrusive, but this overall lack of subtlety and restraint with the jokes bled over to the show’s main humor-like the infamous fart jokes, and dragged-out “jelly tart” misunderstanding.
@@vibezonegaming “Average ATLA fan logic” you say that as if most TDP fans aren’t ALTA fans also? The creators used their connection for marketing; discounting my words based on perceived bias towards ATLA is reductive and inaccurate. I never said the references were alienating me from enjoying the show; I said they (the boomerang one in particular) make no sense in the TDP logic. If it’s in TDP but requires knowledge of ATLA to get the joke, it’s a weak joke. It could’ve been written better to work within the confines of TDP; like Callum asking Nyx if her boomerang staff is magic and geeking out. That would’ve been in-character for Callum, whilst drawing attention to the parallels between him and Sokka.
@@Zephirite. Yeah, I wouldn't have even hit play if I didn't know that Aaron Ehasz was the creator of TDP. While Bryke is a great team and I liked most of Korra, Avatar's best creative decisions were Ehasz's (making Toph a girl, expanding Zuko's arc, etc.). I just really wish they'd brought him back for Avatar Studios. I just viewed those jokes as Easter Eggs and didn't mind them. Like bonus things that DVD's used to have.
yeah i watched the dragon prince with my mother before avatar and she was just lost at the avatar reference jokes. Just blankly staring and furrowing her brows and stuff. I felt second hand embarrassment FOR THE SHOW.
Yeah I've never watched ATLA and I kinda just sat blank faced at most of the jokes from the last two seasons, now ik why LOL. They are referencing to something I don't know about..every episode..every season..
The handling of dark magic has a lot of missed potential. We're told its bad, but were shown that it often is not bad. The characters say that you have to kill magical creatures to use it, but we see multiple times characters just using plants, inorganic material, and parts of living creatures (such as using the dragon horn to get over the lava river) without killing the creature. So what the show tells us is not what it shows us. I keep hoping someone will make a vegetarian type argument. Dark magic is bad because it kills creatures, ok well do you eat meat? IIRC both humans and elves are not vegetarians. Why is it bad for me to kill a deer to save a paralyzed person, but its ok for a hunter to kill a deer to feed their family. The hunter could theoretically become a farmer and feed their family that way, there is no other solution other than dark magic to save the paralyzed person. And like that whole sequence of the back story with the lava monster they killed, I would trade one lava monster to feed 100K people every time. There is so much missed room for nuance. I feel like dark magic would have been a great opportunity for the message "many things are not inherently good or evil, but more like tools, that depend completely on how they are used" and "just because something looks or sounds scary, does not mean that it is bad"
The “Dark Magic is pure evil thing” is one of the reasons I had trouble getting into the show into I eventually just quit a few episodes into season 2. To me, it doesn’t help that the story is going for a “humans bad because Dark Magic” but then shows that humans are relatively defenseless against other creatures! What do Elves and Dragons expect humans to do? Let themselves be eradicated by much stronger creatures with magic? With Callum being able to pick up on rune and primordial magic, it seems humans do have the capability to some degree, but probably needed more time and guidance to get some type of mastery over it. So it makes me think that the Elves and Dragons just didn’t want the extra competition, which is why they constantly fought against humans. The humans then had to find a quicker way to learn magic because they weren’t able to slowly figure things out. The times we do see Dark Magic being used, it’s normally as a way to assist the user or someone they care about. Oh no, Claudia killed a fawn to heal Soren’s broken body! How terrible 🙄 not like animal parts aren’t used in other ways like clothing and furniture. Dark Magic seems to use parts of living things in spells, but why is that inherently bad? Because “humans don’t respect the balance like they should!”? I feel like this wouldn’t be an issue if humans had an innate strength or advantage over other creatures, but they don’t. They are a species learning how to survive in a world constantly attacking them. It’s one of those tropes I’m becoming annoyed by in fantasy nowadays. The “humanity is corrupted and the magical, nature creatures are pure good because they are one with the natural order” or something like that. The Elves and Dragons aren’t portrayed as peaceful, go with the flow beings. They have weapons and ways to attack others. This means they also engage in conflict and not necessarily only with humans. So the narrative seems to be “humans shouldn’t fight against strong magic creatures even when said creatures attack them.” Was my problem when the main group got mad at Soren for killing the dragon who PURPOSEFULLY terrorized a town. Sorry, but no. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@@jendoe9436 yeah the show could have done a lot better with Nuance, especially since its the writers from Avatar who had several episodes showing the better sides of the fire nation. What are other shows that do what you're talking about?
I think that the show struggles to show why dark magic is bad. I mean we get the "look they kill this cute animal" argument. But you can also use items like bones or animal rests. Dont tell me that when you are eat meat you also eat the bones. Then we get the dark magic is a shortcut argument. The easy way. But why is the easy way bad. It is like telling that calculators are bad and we should do math with pen and paper. We only get told that dark magic is bad by the "good" guys. Oh dark magic is bad because of aaravos. So that means just defeat aaravos and dark magic is fine. If one show does its magic system well then its the anime full metal alchemist. There is also a unethical way of using alchemy for powerful effects. I think that the dragon prince can learn one or two thing from this anime in potraying dark magic.
yeah how the show handles dark magic is honestly really bad, it's basically just "dark magic is bad because it is always bad in fiction". like you and the other comments said, just because it uses living things doesn't necessarily make it bad (they eat meat, they use fur so why is this part so wrong) especially when 80% of the time it only uses parts like lizard tales or horns, aka expendable things. want to know a REALLY simple fix to convey how bad dark magic is, instead of the major reason the elves/dragon hate it being "it kills things & uses them" make it that using dark magic is less about the body but more about it destroys the creatures soul (or at least part of the whole soul) it's a slight shift but makes a big difference. Also, I as well hate how the show is just unanimously going with "humans are the bad guys" especially because the elves and dragons aren't hot shit either, half the time they are very arrogant and condescending to humans. like they decide to banish an entire race of people to the section of the continent that has no magic/is much harsher just because a few humans decided to do dark magic when they should have instead just dealt with the fact there are creatures that dwarf them in power and shouldn't do anything to protect/put them at an even playing field. It especially sucks because the 1st season felt like it was trying to convey an idea that both sides were at fault and neither were in the right but nope they decided to do the "humans were the bad ones, elves & dragons noble" because again "that's what the rest of current fantasy fiction says" lastly, regarding the lava golem, I feel it was 100% justified even with it being the last of it's kind because it's the LAST of it's kind. it had no hope of continuing it's species because it's the last one so it would have died a slow, lonely, and miserable death so it was better to put it out of it's misery and at least this way it both went out fighting and it's death meant hundreds could live.
i also hoped, we would get a little bit more nuance, but the problem is it lacks so much world building, that we actually don't know much about elven society. Looking at dark magic, do we really know that elves hate dark magic, rayla seems to hate it, but Terry seems pretty chill about it and the sun elven queen just tried to cleanse viren from it and lets not forget we still have to find one elf, who hates humans in general. We also don't know what the relationship between dragons and elves are, i mean humans killed the dragon king, but the elves didn't seem to care that much, except for some moon elf assassins, who set out to kill Harrow and Ezran, a kid by the way, which by the way the show never cared to address, how messed up it is, that runaan tried to kill a kid, just for being the son of Harrow. That's like really evil stuff. Also didn't zubeia order the death of ezran, weird that this is never brought up between those two. There is more that isn't really explained but those are the most egregious to me.
This perfectly encapsulates my problem with the show. I binged it recently and while I liked the beginning, I started to lose interest. But now I realize, it always felt like the show was focusing on the wrong thing. We don’t need to see the other kingdoms, especially since we haven’t seen them again. I don’t care about the gang’s travel to the earth dragon since it does absolutely nothing and the earth dragon throws a tantrum and the gang doesn’t get the map anyway. I don’t care about Claudia’s boyfriend because it’s never explained why an elf fell in love with a dark mage and it doesn’t look like anything Claudia does bothers him. I don’t care about the Sun Elf being in camps if nothing is being done about! I get that there’s civil strife but nothings being done and we have no clue why they aren’t reclaiming the city. We know there’s beasts that curse you when bitten but they only attack during the day, you can easily fly or horse your way in and try to fix it. Do they not know what’s been done to their Sun seed? Why do they even need it? Their power comes from the Sun, what makes the Sun seed special? And I don’t care about the “Mystery of Aaravos” because Zubeia told us nearly everything we need to know and we haven’t seen him since the end of season 5. It’s almost like the show doesn’t want you to care because there’s always something more interesting it could be focusing on. I want Ezran talking to that child queen and relating to her about what’s it’s like to lose your parents so young and being forced upon a throne. I want discussion of who’s to be the next dragon king, if the egg was thought to be destroyed, why has no other dragon tried to claim the throne? I want Claudia and Viren to find out Callum can cast spells without dark magic, have them react and question the sacrifices they made and forced on others. I want Soren to become a capable man and not the dumb idiot the writers want them to be. And most of all, I want the characters to have more questions about Aaravos. Why is a star touched elf so powerful? What is star magic based on, is it related to how Aaravos could cast different elemental spells when defending Viren? Is Aaravos in touch with dark magic? He seems very knowledgeable in dark magic spells. Why was Aaravos so bent on manipulating others, he’s immortal and has incredible magic, what did he have to gain? How was he tricked into the prison? What does “Aaravos’ key” do aside from glowing at different elemental magic? There’s so much the story can do but it always seems like it refuses to focus on it.
In the very first season it was ALMOST like they were trying to present nuance to dark magic. "Oh, if we didn't use dark magic, millions of people would have starved." And then they hand waved that away with "well, killing one monster which we are at war with is never worth the lives of 5 million subjects." It seems like the show is so determined to moralize without conflict that they've literally come out and said "yes, mankind should die, because they're all evil." It would be one thing if that was the elves' view of man, but that's the SHOW'S view of man.
19:07 I am reminded of Avatar's episode 'The Storm' where an old fisherman criticizes Aang for turning his back on the world. Many episodes in ATLA actually show the townspeople with one main spokesperson to voice their povs. I do miss that in DP, bc I actually like the C plot.
right? i was really hoping whoever destroyed he painting would come forward or a sun fire elf would directly complain to the queen. it’s so tedious without actually hearing the conflict they keep mentioning but never showing
Here’s the thing, TDP closely associating itself with ATLA is an incredibly risky move. Because if the the show ever stumbles (such as in S4) fans of TDP (who are also fans of ATLA) will tear it to pieces.
I'm glad someone finally brings up just how much TDP seems to want to be like ATLA and can't seem to leave its shadow. Fans compare them nonstop just because some of the crew worked on both shows and immediately assume TDP is like a spiritual successor when in reality it's not and, in my opinion, shouldn't try to be. Just let TDP be its own thing. If I wanted to watch a show that is like ATLA I would just watch ATLA.
I feel like that's been a major problem with a lot of animated shows nowadays. Every time a new show comes out, everyone says "This is the new avatar, this is the new avatar, this is the new avatar" both by reviewers/fans and the show itself trying to mimic avatar, which often times results in them superficially copying story beats/elements from the show. we really need to stop treating avatar as the pinacol of western cartoon shows, because as amazing as the show is, its not the only one. shows like batman tas, samurai jack, spectacular spiderman and many others are just as great and don't just try to chase avatar's story
i mean fans do constantly compare them but tdp seems to want to be like atla too and thats the main issue imo. tdp and atla are similar in many ways so the comparisons are inevitable. atla is one of the most well loved shows of all time so pretty much anytime there's a new animated show on the scene, people compare it to atla because of how good atla was. the issue is when the creators try to replicate story beats or worldbuilding or other elements of the story but do it with poor execution because that makes the show bad
The world has a lot of merit but it fails in creating an immersive world like avatar. Honestly I think that’s what fans want when they see shows be deemed “the new avatar” the want a completely immersive setting that is magical and well established.
Even on its own S4 is pretty awful. Found this video because I just finished S4 and was completely confused as to what the fuck happened. Did the writers die before S4 was written? Did Netflix fire the whole team and started new? Because there’s such a stark difference in writing quality and the first seasons weren’t exactly the best either, but they were fun. The world the creators made is completely wasted on this show. I say Netflix reboots the whole thing in a few years once this show is over. They could do much better.
From a humour perspective I think the writers need to understand that kids ARE NOT watching Dragon Prince. They're not. The fanbase is 99% Avatar fans looking to relive the glory days and so closely following the careers of people who worked on it. And Avatar aired almost 20 years ago. Every single fan of Avatar is an adult now, unless they're a kid who's parent showed them Avatar. Therefore while it's fine to have a light hearted tone that is welcoming to kids, the humour needs to ditch the poop and fart jokes because adults don't find it funny. The whole show in general seems desperate to be a kids show while completely misunderstanding its core audience. Avatar was able to be incredibly mature and dark at times while still being kid friendly.
I mean as much as I want to agree with you, kids don’t engage in fandom, kids aren’t really on the internet in the way scaremongers will have you believe, their presence, especially in animation communities is largely an invisible majority. If you where to look on the internet you would presume the audience of a show like The Owl House is mainly 14 and up but the only people I’ve met and spoken about the show with are little kids, the type of people who don’t leave reviews on shows, make video essays or Reddit posts. I think they understand their audience perfectly fine.
I agree with you, but I think a better way to say this is that not all children are 5 year olds. You can make a "kids show" and aim it at older kids. This show could easily be aimed at 11-14 year olds. All the fart jokes and the jokes that are like "GET IT?? GET THE PUNCHLINE" are jokes that would work best with younger kids like 4-7 year olds. But the rest of the series is much more serious and not something that 4-7 year olds would find entertaining because it's so plot heavy. I feel like the writers don't realize the difference between different ages of children and think ALL kids find fart jokes funny AND can follow a plot heavy story. It's a massive tonal dissonance that makes the entire show feel awkward and boring at the same time. The writers don't know who their audience is
Another thing is if there were any kids like 9 to 13 from season one they have since grown up with the show. They are now mid teens to voting age. The show needs to mature now.
I never thought about how uniting Rayllum was, especially compared to the shipping war nightmare that was Korra. It really does make me even sadder that they went with the melodramatic breakup just to shake things up... and then it didn't even cause either of them to really change or grow as people during the separation. I knew that graphic novel was going to be trouble as soon as I heard about it. I always hate when vital story information is hidden in supplemental content. Wonder who pushed that idea.
If I had to hazard a guess is that the ship kinda formed naturally instead of being made naturally, both characters would see in the other something they wanted to attain, their relationship reinforced the original game and they sounds to be attractive to each other physically. The elements where there. The problem with season 4 is that this show don't really know how to push forward characters, much like the other royal kid that showed up on season 3 and I got the impression the showruners really wanted us to like her, the plot points of season 4 (the breakup and the sun elf subplot) kinda fell flat because they never really had meaningful opposition, the showrunners just tell you the correct opinion and twist the story to suit. Honestly this is an issue that Sour a lot of tokusatu protagonist for me, this called main rider syndrome.
I think that the secret of avatars success is less is more. Avatar is about the 100 year war and every episode deals directly or indirectly with it. Avatar focuses on the main group and zuko. Dragon prince has 3 groups in each season (main group, viren and Soren/claudia s1//amaya s2 onward). There are simply too many characters that take too much screen time (you could cut amayas plotline out of the story, all she did was to be an obstacle in s1e4) . And it gets worse, because we will get introduced to tidebound elves and there are 4 more human kingdoms (would the story be that different if there were be only one Kingdom?). The plot of season 4 is so lacking that its difficult to guess what will happen season 5. In season 1 to 3 the main group brings the dragon prince to the queen. In season 4 we waste time with sun fire elves domestic issues, bad jokes and relationship dramas. In the very first episode of s4 they didnt even explain the state of the world. What happened in the last 2 years? What about dark magic (wasnt this kinda the central conflict? S4 kinda ignores this).
Yeah, I definitely agree that there’s a “less is more” quality to stories like this sometimes. For these grand, epic quest type stories, you want to keep things focused to maintain that sense of momentum with the pacing. It’s an adventure, as soon as you stop moving, it’s hard to pick up the pace again. It’s funny that what you’re describing about TDP having issues keeping focus because it has too many characters is a problem I also had with Korra. I won’t get into that too much because it’s a whole differ topic but it’s telling that too shows that tried to follow up Avatar with the “it’s ATLA, but even more!” approach both ended up having similar issues.
honestly, the entire janai/Amaya storyline was completely a waste of time. they could've fit in way more good stuff, but they filled it up with a random storyline that doesn't affect the main conflict at all.
Absolutely agree. It’s success doesn’t come from its depth but from the perfect handling of a heroes journey with a familiar yet strange world. Adding more to it kills not only its inherent charm but also opens it up to being judged against more complex shows.
@@VogJam I think part of what helped the original show was that, with Avatar, each season concluded with a climax that evolved the overall story to its next phase. The first season is largely a small scale adventure, the Gaang is mostly trying to avoid being captured and helping where they can, as they journey north. The season climax changes the status quo. The elimination of the fire nation fleet not only changes the military calculus. It brings the avatar to the forefront of the conflict between the Earth Kingdom and the Fire Nation. In as much as a Children's show is going to demonstrate it, a political element to the Avatar's roll is introduced. The third season evolves the show yet again, progressing off the fall of the Earth Kingdom and building to the final spiritual showdown between Aang and Ozai, between Zuko and Azula. In a lot of ways, the second half of the third season is a return to the smaller stories of the first season . . . but these characters are very different now. It's showcasing how they've changed before the final showdown. I don't really get that feeling of evolution of Dragon Prince. It just feels like 'stuff happening' without a firm payoff to each phase.
@@Bustermachineagreed with this. I saw all the season of TDP before the Netflix name swap to another subtitle. Watching the newest season with the timeskip, it felt like nothing happened. The story coulda ended there with the return of the dragon prince to his mother. I woulda been fine with it. The fight with Viren was so… not so climatic.
The dragon prince suffers from poor writing and poor choices. It's clearly split between trying to be for kids while being more "mature" but never committing to either, and it doesn't have much going on in universe, so it goes at a slow pace and shoves random disconnected things together. The blood moon elf is a prime example of this, she's an assassin and they shoot her scene like she's a super lethal assassin but then cut to later where she's actually killed no one and really just knocked a few of them out, she's also very cringe from her personality to her weapons, her powers are supposed to be cool but since they present her in such a safe way she's not really threatening. The plot is loose and that's generous way to describe it so when they try to build up momentum they fail because it's hard to tell what's important and what isn't because they never keep a focus on it. I really wanted the show to be good but none of the care or decisions that went into avatar are present here, it's just such a non-committal show made for an audience of neither children nor tweens.
In regards to the humor, Aaron Ehasz has gone on record to say that even he thinks the jokes got out of hand in season 4, and that they'll be making an effort to tone them down going forward. As for season 4 specifically, I think the reason it feels so off is because the show had literally lost its plot prior to the season starting. Season 3 was the end of the original order, and they made the deliberate choice to resolve the immediate conflict there, so that the show would have a viable ending if they didn't get renewed. And then they were, and since they no longer had a plot, they had to establish a new one. I have a feeling things will be better going forward now that the new groudwork has been laid.
TBH the Dragon Prince has never had good humor (I think I laughed maybe 5 times throughout the first 3 seasons), but season 4's humor was particularly bad. I would say painfully bad even.
@@AccumulatedKnowledge I think it was always going to be a long-running series but the quest to return Zim home was going to run adjacent to Aaravos' return. Given how much lore would've been involved with Aaravos', I'm guessing the crew made the decision to prioritize Zim and save Aaravos for a later date.
@@AccumulatedKnowledge from what I’ve seen, my guess is that the returning zim arc was originally supposed to take 4 seasons. However, they didn’t know if they’d get approved for a 4th season, so they decided to condense it to 3. This meant that when they did get approved for seasons 4-7, they had one more season than they had originally planned. It hasn’t been confirmed, but I think this could explain why season 4 has so little in terms of direction and plot, it was never meant to be part of the aaravos plotline
One of my biggest issues with this show is its social commentary. Im not the biggest fan how they go for the whole 2 sides things. From what i understand the elves and dragon hold a monoply on magic and literally forced out all the humans out of xadia. Yet the show treats this as both sides need to come together. It also doesnt pop up and the main plot doesnt focus on it too much. At least in atla they point out the colonial and genocidal nature of the fire nation is a bad thing , but they dont brush it as the old they are all orcs. They point out the flaws in propaganda, education and systemic flaws of the fire nation that encourages this aggresive behavior, from dragon slaying, anger fire bending, and propaganda education.
They also don’t explain why “dark” magic is so bad. Why is Claudia evil for killing a faun for magic to save her brother. If she had killed it for meat to save her starving brother no one would have batted an eye. How is dark magic any worse than not being vegan? And besides, the humans don’t have a choice but to use dark magic. The elves and dragons are living it up in Zadia with all the “ethical” magic they could want and the the humans are supposed to what? Just lay down and die in the terrible non magic lands? Why can’t they use the one favor they got from life to make a better life for themselves?
@@Nobadi56 The social commentary murdered the show for me. Humanity was literally genocided because of small group of dark mages(with no proper explanation why dark magic even is that bad) and yet it's a 'fault of both sides' on words and 'humanity is just bad and needs to do better' in narrative. It's horrendous.
@DeathKitta And this is why Studio Ghibli's "Princess Mononoke" is incredible. It looks at both sides and shows civilization and natures many virtues and vices.
My biggest qualm with this show was actually how they dealt with Verin. He’s supposed to be this big bad evil guy who’s also super charismatic, but every time he’s tried to do something evil of note, some random person’s just spoke out saying, “I DON’T TRUST VERIN, SO YOU SHOULDN’T EITHER!” then everyone just….goes with it. They’re trying to make him an unsympathetic guy, but when everything he does fails, he becomes the underdog, and audiences are gonna root for him when in fact, HE’S THE BAD GUY!
He isn't outright bad he is a moraly gray character who has his ups and downs.Yes he wanted to kill the prices and treats his own children as tools but he was ready to scrifice his life for Harrow and was alwayes obidient to him. And his primary objective is protection of Catholis and Humanity.
@@Alaryk111he’s not morally grey and the series makes it clear that he’s not. They made him an abusive father for Christ sake. It’s very clear they wanted viren to be seen as a bad guy
@@BabyGirlTiny Yeah he was an abussive father and his entire arc in S4 is that he is regretting his past actions but he is ina situation where he can't go back. And alsot all the bad things he did was inspired by Aravoss it wasn't his own agenda. Of course it does not exonerate him from the guilt but he is much more nuanced character than a "bad guy". And he did far worse things than being abussive father so what are you proving with that?
@@BabyGirlTiny actually the show was doing a great job at portraying Viren as a morally gray, pretty nuanced antagonist until season 3 when they just made him plain evil and threw that all away
@@manuba_ Yeah I actually enjoyed him spiralling into paranoia(and its not like he was wrong, the history already proved it), but when literally every other human are either dumb or harmfully saint(yes i will give my food to a starving kingdom which will lead MY people to die from starvation too. no killing One lava monster to prevent ANYONE from dying was a morally bad decision) made me actively rute for Viren. And then I guess writers noticed that and then just flipped Viren from this to suddenly Muhaha murder I am eviiiiil. The show REFUSES to do nuiance and is incapable in the most basic chidlish good-bad moral. They show A kicking B and say A is in the right and expects us to go along with it.
I felt this way too. When they did easter eggs in s1-2, I was going nuts like a seal with 'member berries. Not long until it ran multiple times that I just roll my eyes and think "ok ok let's get the actual plot going please". The show is relying too much on the showrunner's past credentials but not delivering the same quality it wants to be. It's losing sight and neglecting what's important to the actual show/story. Not to mention, any references to a pop culture in any fantasy setting really just takes you out of the mysticism.
I think many people actually are hanging out to the show, because of some sort of hope that they will fix Rayllum, the unintentional but actual heart of the show. I can guarantee you that if the drop the ball completely, the show will dissapear in tatters
Honestly, missing that morally gray area can really damage a show if they’re trying to focus on complex themes. There should be villains in that are morally gray especially in shows dealing with war and peace. Both Avatar shows nailed this with some of the show’s antagonists whether they be for an episode or a whole season. It adds a whole other layer of complexity to a villain beyond just being the bad guy.
@pillowfluf5412 Exactly! Like Zym, the literal plot device of the first 3 seasons is just completely irrelevant at this point and completely side-lined!
TDP does have its die-hard fans. If people enjoy the show, that’s great. I’m sure some of them prefer it to ATLA, and it’s not like there aren’t things to enjoy about it. Personally I do still like TDP, but it’s no ATLA. I sometimes feel like there’s a really good story buried in there, given the history and the conflict they’ve set up between the humans and Xadia, but the show is struggling to find it.
same honestly. i think its an okay show, probably fun for the kids (and thats the target audience so i can't be too mad at it). but atla is honestly on a different level. atla is just in a different conversation with the level of craft behind it. tdp's animation is nice but it's really not holding a candle to atla in the writing department
Season 1 - It was new and exciting, a bit clunky with exposition and dialogue, I had my doubts, but overall interesting enough to keep me engaged with the new world/characters. Season 2 - It was a struggle. The jokes were long and painful, it felt like a lot of filler episodes with minimal progress being made in the journey, and severely lacked serious/permanent consequences for the multitude of stupid decisions made by characters Season 3 - Most enjoyable season, by far. Jokes were funny, characters found their identities, story/pace finally had a satisfying flow each episode and the final battle had such a grand finality… I wouldn’t have been surprised if they just ended the story there. Season 4 - Three years wait and I had no idea there was homework I was supposed to be doing 😂 When it was revealed that Rayllum had ‘broken up’… “WHAT?! NO! What did I miss?!” I was so convinced I accidentally skipped a season, that I went back and rewatched the first 2 episodes of season 3, then the last 2…. And I honestly had no idea what I was missing until I watched your video and learned about the comic, which I will probably never read, so thank you for clarifying 👏🏻
I'm very happy this video popped up on my recommended, I was just thinking about these problems and you said everything I was thinking. Settings are very important for us the audience to understand the story, it's not difficult to label a map in the opening and would make things more immersive and exciting for the viewers. I also feel like the show is afraid of making it's characters do wrong. Rayla doesn't apologise to Callum for ditching him and Ezran is apparently in the right for bringing the Dragon Queen on the grave of Katolis' soldiers (which, fun reminder: the conflict wasn't long ago, our characters were still alive during the war as were their adult citizens). Ezran's naivete worked in earlier seasons because he was a child but he's a king now and needs to learn to prioritise his kingdom, something I feel like he and more other characters don't do. The show feels like it's telling us we should favor Xadians over humans because humans can do 'dark magic' (which was the reason they got kicked out but dark magic was their way of becoming equals and doesn't always require harming others). The show has too many grey themes and story elements to play everything black and white.
Er. I know this a is very late but not really, TLoK was just as defined by TLA if not more they are just obsessed with being the superficial opposite, hell ) khora can very much be defined of being not!Ang at the start.
@@MrRobot-0 I don’t want to resurrect the LOK debate in this comment section, but I will say this. Regardless of your thoughts on the quality of LOK, it does feel like a very distinct show. That has to count for something, at least imo
@@spaghettiwarrior1573disagree they cling on to familiar things like crazy and over saturate things we love from TLA even to a fault, breaking the preset rules we had in place in TLA, but tbh I’d say the writing of the Dragon’s Prince is a similar to the TLA in that’s it’s fairly decent though lacks world building/maturity/continuity that we had in TLA, TLoK was just poorly written and gave me more of the latest Starwars trilogy vibe more than anything, just a cashgrab banking on fandom over a beloved IP
Legend of Korra is so much better written than Dragon Prince that it's not even funny. Korra continues the Avatar universe, but has its own tone and story. Meanwhile, Dragon Prince isn't even related to ATLA, but feels like a cheap copy with generic fantasy elements.
I think the biggest problem with the show is how short it is. You can't perfectly convey these types of themes, messages, storylines in 9 episodes/25 minutes a season. Now I absolutely love the show and enjoy every episode, but there's moments when I get to the season finale and I feel lost and as if there were so much more they wanted to show. Now if they had Avatar's 20 episode per season, then I think they can flesh out all these extra characters, storylines and sub plots with ease.
I mean 25 minutes times 9 episodes, that’s just under 4 hours or about 2 movies in length. You can and should be able to tell a story in that time, it’s just gotta have less stuff than an avatar season.
Ugh. The first moment of the video and it had to remind me of the cringefest that season 4 was, especially with the fart jokes. The comedy went so bad, the creators of The Dragon Prince had to address that in their QA, promising they'd tone down childish humor. I'm glad you address this problem in this video. Nothing kills my suspension of disbelief when they discuss existential problems like having only 30 days of life so why not enjoy it and then... we get fart jokes. *sigh* The writers can't have both in the same show. This season was not worth waiting 3 years, a waste of screening time, terrible pacing, and disappointment. The main quest to find the earth dragon should have been done in 3 episodes. The problem is they season 5 is already written and in production so very little will be changed pacing-wise and so on. It's really disappointing to see writers still treat this show as a children's show while talking about enslavement and other mature things. The creators of The Dragon Prince should learn from DreamWorks how to make mature story that can entertain kids and adults (example: The Puss in Boots The last wish)
Not to mention DreamWorks also has: - Kung Fu Panda movies which deals with loss and corruption (KFP 2 being a big example!) - How to Train Your Dragon with messages of trying to coexist among different groups and building confidence in yourself - Spirit about not letting terrible circumstances crush you (the breaking scene and numerous close calls) and learning to trust - The Prince of Egypt which took a pretty heavy Torah/Biblical event and managed to respectfully retell it with musical numbers (The Plagues and Deliver Us still gives me chills) - Rise of the Guardians where Jack faces a world in which he’s unseen and suffers intense loneliness and confusion about his place in it - Even the Shrek movies can get pretty mature with the idea of societal standards affecting your self perception and the importance of a strong support network And that’s what just pops up at the top of my head! There’s plenty of movies and shows that can be entertaining but mature for all audiences. And honestly, TDP even on its own apart for AtLA isn’t as deep or thought provoking as most people claim. It pays lip service to it, but doesn’t dive into it as much or as well as it should.
@@jendoe9436 All of those are excellent examples from DreamWorks alone. Then their latest Puss in boots dropped the mic. TDP is not thought-provoking at all because it literally spells it out, making the basic writing mistake of "saying, not showing" (this season 4 is the worst example); in my first impression, I understood why humans hate elves; by the crime of the few humans they banished the entire population from there. I'm sure elves were not gentle during the process either.
Trollhunters is a Dreamworks production and man, the fart jokes on that one were too much and unfunny af. It has the same problem as TDP with the kid humour, even worse tbh
@@mariedit9935 It's quite a shame if Dreamworks does it too. I know they're capable of tasteful humor like in Puss in Boots The Last Wish. There is Kung Fu Panda 4 on a horizon (premiere on the 8th of March 2024) so I hope such kind of humor will be minimal... Even though the trailer already showed the fart joke there already.
I'm confused as to why Lux Aurea was abandoned. I get their power source was corrupted. . . But can't they do anything about it? And even so, what exactly are the consequences of the orb being corrupted. Also, the fire mage had to have something else up his sleeve besides fire magic, especially when fighting his sister.
@@kalzium8857 that's honestly such a terrible storytelling decision. everything needed to understand the story of a tv show should be shown in the tv show
The worldbuilding could have been done better if there were more seasons. I agree they shouldn't have tried so hard to be avatar but I like the magic in this show anyway. The very little they explained that is. But I love how the spells were utilised.
16:10 reminds me of that one scene in the 3rd Hunger games movie. When someone points a gun at her and she talks the guy out of it, only to be shot by another person, now that was an awesome scene. I know it is a different context, but the opposition to the quest of the main characters had personality and was actually visible and influenced the plot and characters. That is really lacking in Dragon Prince, especially since Ezran is such a bad king who would bring his people to ruin, he trully is just a child that doesnt understand the world even after everything he (should have) encountered in his quest. Even I as a viewer was upset that he let the dragon queen come to a sacred place!
i watched the first five episodes of the show with a friend and already bemoaned the slow scenes from the get go. upon faced with the choice to start ep 6, my friend went "idk, I'd kinda want to see where this goes, something cool could still come up" - "it's been five episodes. if we still aren't sold and still waiting for the interesting shoe to drop, it's not gonna happen" haven't looked back since tbh
Weirdly enough, I was never the biggest Raylum shipper. I like them as a friendly duo, but the romance never really landed for me. I thought breaking them up for book 4 was an interesting new direction, but the characters handled it really awkwardly. I would've preferred the angle of "girl, you've been gone for 2 years, and we'd only dated for like 2 months before that. Yeah i missed you, but now that I've moved on, we can't rekindle that."
I really enjoyed the show at first and saw a lot of potential moving forward, but then the lazy writing and really bad jokes just started to ruin it for me. I’m crossing my fingers they get back on track and tell the story I know they are capable of.
I have just found this video and had to add: Aaron had a AMA on Twitter in the lead up to the new DP season and that’s when he mentioned there was meant to be a season 4 of ATLA (something that is debunked in a documentary released after season 3’a finale) and got people talking about him and his work with DP etc. It definitely feels like he’s trying to use ATLA for its popularity and audience
Nicely done: balanced and intelligent. Your voice is very listenable too (it does matter). One thing I haven't seen mentioned at all (I think) is the slight change in animation style and especially the change in Callum and Rayla's character designs. I really don't like them.
I've never been a blind fan of this show. On season 2 or 3 I had a feeling they were sitting up to much than they could handle. Yeah they explained the moonshadow and fire elves but it wasn't anything special, we just understood them but they never had a big culture, it was just a few traditions, but it was fun. Just like soft magic systems you don't need full on explanations to enjoy it but I knew at one point this could become an issue if they focused on it for too long, aka this season I always had a problem with the brothers family, it seemed to boring, like no tension. What did Callum feel when his mother married the king ? What does he feel abt his own father ? Also you are right abt the human kingdoms, I think it was a missed opportunity to not make Callum's mom be a royal member of another kingdom, so Callum would have been born and raised in another one or have uncles as kings as well. Royalty are just a bunch of uncles, sisters, cousins, which would have at least one way to connect them together
Yeah I agree with you on the second part 100% I really wanted more backstory, but sometimes I think people forget this show is meant for a younger audience. So something me and you could comprehend (Backstory, trauma, heavier topics to understand the character better) might not be understood by younger people.
@PardonMyFrench16 That's not really a good argument. Avatar the last Airbender is a show for kids and it talks about war, the horror of it and how it affect lives, and it does so very very well Just because a show is for kids does not mean people should not put effort, kids are way smart than people give them credit for. They are not dumb, they are innocent to subjects they have never seen, that's the job of the adults to show and talk about it It's just that in avatar we have 4 elements and which with their own people and cultures, but in the dragon prince it's double the characters and elves types so it needs more care
@@prettyspectrum6371 Yes, ATLA did do a very good job at that, and I am not saying the Dragon Prince shouldn't dive deeper into that, but I think there is a time and place, and your right kids are not dumb, but there are better ways to talk about heavier topics and there are still 3 seasons remaining so there is a lot that can be discussed, getting backstory, and understanding the characters better Season 4 was not very good, but it is a season meant to start a base of a new story line. I also agree that they don't explain the culture of the elves or humans very well. What I think is the problem is that they are trying to use an already successful show and not really wanting to shy away from it because they know that is what is popular. They really should take a jump and do something that is just the Dragon Prince because I'm sure people will like it.
@PardonMyFrench16 I agree. What differentiate an adult show and a kids show is how they handle their subjects, how they decide to show and deal with their meanings. Yes, I feel the same. The dragon prince is not trying to be their own show but bringing attention to the shadow ATLA left behind, hoping people will lift their eyes and see them. But not wanting to get away from its shadow, and in turn being obscured by it and not shining in its own light as a show by itself. I hope they learn from the mistakes of this season, in my opnion they will not be able to explain every elven culture because of time but I feel the way they treated the moonshadow elves is the way to go. Not overexplain but let the characters be in their daily life and see normal customs
@prettyspectrum6371 I think they definetly did learn from the past season. This show is definitely not for kids anymore (even the rating went up) and apparently season 5 is child's play next to the 6th that's gonna be out early 2024.
So season 5 was even worse. More stuff happens sure, but the show treads so much water it’s unreal. The side quests don’t contribute at all to the main story and the side villain doesn’t contribute anything to the story, as he can’t decide what his goal is. Also no new info on Aaravos. He’s STILL evil and STILL imprisoned. That’s it. And Zym is barely even mentioned by name in the season. The Dragon Prince isn’t even truly involved in The Dragon Prince anymore. It’s really a shame how far it’s fallen from such a really fun 3 seasons.
It's not even that it relied on avatar and tried to be similar to it, the show itself *tells* you how big the scale is, but it turns out being incredibly *small.* First, nine episodes are not even close to *enough* to tell the story that they want. For example, iirc in episode 4 of 5 of season 2, after Amaya passes the trial and proves she has a pure soul, she catches Jamai's interest before being dismissed to the place she was being held on. It leads us into thinking: "oh wow, are we gonna get something interesting here? They're gonna develop a friendship organi-" and before we can even finish that thought, that thread is entirely abandoned until *EPISODE 8 OF 9,* when they're already good friends, and that makes me feel *nothing.* How am i meant to be interested in their relationship, if i barely got *anything* in regards to the development of it? Another one, in season 2 when Virren is trying to coax the other human kingdoms into war. Before even engaging into that, just like you mentioned, how am i meant to even *distinguish* them from one another, when we're never shown what their culture or attire looks like? Anyway, we have the young queen that's in charge after her mothers died. I thought that was super interesting, because she has a *lot* of things in common with Ezran; both of them lost their parents to war, they had to assume a leadership role at a young age and mature *way* earlier than they were allowed to. So... What even *is* there about her, besides that her moms died and she's more mature than the other rulers? Really, there's absolutely *NOTHING* about her. We're never shown anything about her outside of that, and when she comes at the end of season 3 with the other humans with the sigil of the people who didn't want war, why should I even feel *anything?* She just shows up with them, and there's *NO* build-up, or emotional weight to it. I get it that they're trying to tell a story with multiple, complex moving parts, but sometimes there's *too much.* They want their world to feel *large* and *complex,* with multiple moving parts that you can dive in and spend *hours* in... But that's Avatar's world, not Dragon Prince's. Dragon Prince's world is like a fake set for a theater. It *gives* the illusion that it is much bigger than it actually is, when in reality it's as deep as a puddle.
8:14 Sorry, but the show insisted that Amaya and the Queen were together for two years. At that poit, Amaya should know traditions of Fire Elves if she was planning to marry their queen one day. She also have no respect for their other traditions, and it implies to me that queen NEVER took her on any wedding or funeral of her people. How is this happend? She never let her talk to elves or even read a book abot their history?
I generally like the dragon prince, but sometimes the characters are just a little too stupid even as comedic relief characters. And then at other times it’ll suddenly hit quite hard, like when Soren got injured or now in the newest season with Callum being tortured, Claudia’s leg or her father’s fate (actually, the newest season was quite good).
I first heard someone say Corvus and my brain was like: isn't corvid, like, the genus if crows? And he's is not associated with any type of bird. Huh that's a missed opportunity.
It was pretty lame to put Ezran speech a cheesy one and I don't like him that much over. The best action we had in the show showing the extent of magic battle that we can expect later
Fart jokes have sadly been a part of Dragon Prince, Korra and even A:TLA. If you ever thought A:TLA was flawless, count how many time Sokka bring up potty breaks.
If I recall, 3 times. Twice in the 2nd episode, once in the Winter Solstice. So really not all that much, given the usual kind of humor in Nicleodeon shows.
The relationships between the main cast in the dragon prince feels fake and artificial, they all get along never get mad or annoyed with eachother it's just lame. In avatar they get mad and annoyed all the time, when they meet Toph for the first time, in the very next episode they were at eachothers throats yelling and fighting, and then eventually reconciled. It felt genuine. In dragon prince they are either sad or loving...
This is really my biggest beef with TDP, it's world building and magic systems suck, and it's compounded by the fact that the show tires to copy other, more popular sources of entertainment rather than coming up with anything new. Usually a show can make it up with amazing characters and a good plot but the Dragon Prince has neither of those either, the characters are meh at best and forgettable at worst, and the plot is paper thin.
I guess my niece and i are in the minority when it comes to Raylum lol. For me, it felt like it came a little bit out of nowhere. Like there were no hints that they saw each other as anything other than friends prior to Rayla almost confessing to a comatose Callum, to the point where earlier THAT SAME EPISODE, i was thinking to myself something along the lines of "It's really nice that they're giving us a male-female friendship without it turning romantic" (and this is coming from someone who's normally a hopeless romantic). If they show's creative team had been given the run-time to flesh this out more (the show in general feels rather rushed due to the 9 episode per season format, but that's a larger issue with streaming services), then maybe I would have felt differently. I don't know why my niece doesn't like the relationship, i just know that when she saw them kiss, her first response was "No. I don't want them to get married." 😂
I find it hard to believe TDP has the head writer of ATLA. The writing of Avatar was tight, focused, and consistent. But Dragon Prince is sluggish, meandering, and all over the place.
10:27 ok the thing with the dark magic being a shortcut doesn’t make sense because the reason it is a short cut is because humans aren’t born with an understanding of an arcanum (an element) the way elves are. Dark magic therefore allows them to do magic by using other creatures’ magical essence to perform spells. The reason callum can do primal magic is because he understands the arcanum (the fundamental truth of an element) and can use its magic the same way an elf mage can, while viren and Claudia can’t. Also, dark magic lets you do absolutely anything, while primal magic limits the user to one element.
I think the dragon prince is a good show but the writers need to stop trying to make like Avatar the last air bender and make it it’s own thing and they need to fix the lack lustre writing of season 4 it was good but the writing was dragging it down with the stupid relationship drama of season four between Calum and Rayla and too many plots going on at once and too much wokeness and too much preaching about love and peace
A few gay elves and it is now "Woke" ok.......🙄 also, the Relationship "Drama" was explained in a book on why it happened, and it really explained the characters of Callum and Rayla, Rayla this headstrong, feet first kind of gal who just wants the people she loves to be safe, and after losing everyone but Callum she goes off to find Verin, herself but that means she abandoned Callum. Also everyone should preach about love and peace its better than hate and unrest
I'll be real, I've seen this show and it felt like ... nothing really ever happened that was actually important. The characters feel superficial too..there's nothing relatable about them and when there is it's immediately overshadowed by a quirky joke ...a joke that isn't good. I don't think it has anything to do with Avatar, it's just not a good show.
A lot of the series felt kind of preachy with no real backing. Like, the whole dark magic thing never backed up why it was necessarily bad. Even if they took a nuanced stance later they’re obviously portraying it as a bad think based off of the scene framing and character interactions with it. I was kind of annoyed at the child Princess scene. Like, he outlines a threat and the other monarchs agree that if everyone gets involved they would feel comfortable tackling this threat, otherwise it would be too much to handle. The child disagrees. Fair enough. War is a serious thing. Action was take against a king, but that doesn’t necessarily mean all of the human kingdoms are being threatened. What’s her concern? That everyone’s only saying yes because the other said it. That’s ridiculous. They’re considering the risks of war and how their forces would manage and she’s acting like they’re mindless idiots and after making such a stupid observation they praise her for it. It’s just weird things like that were scenes don’t feel like reasonable interactions that weave a narrative, but sloppy happenstance to force and idea or narrative.
I can not add anything or remove any word to improve on your video. Praise be to the UA-cam Algorithm, let this get many view, or at least a view by the showrunners.
I’m definitely one who got on board for this show due to its Avatar connections. For me personally though, I really couldn’t get into the show from the outset. I really wanted to like it, and kept holding out season after season hoping it would eventually “get good.” (If I remember correctly, I got to the end of season three, so I take it from what you say about season four, if it hasn’t grabbed me yet there’s probably no hope.) Some of my gripes about the show were in its animation style, a fantasy world that I just found to be very generic, and a presentation and story telling approach that seemed much more focused on messaging and showing off how diverse and inclusive it was, as opposed to telling a compelling story with strong, likable characters. Shame this show didn’t quite hit the mark for me, but I’ll always be glad I’ve got Avatar.
I really love the Dragon Prince and was disappointed in what they gave us, but I also have to remind myself that season 3 was the end of an era, so season 4 would be similar to season 1, setting up what was to come next. They started working on season 4 in 2020, which is why a lot of the humor is outdated (when Soren flossed, I think I died a little inside) Why I think the Dragon Prince is in its shadow is sorta how a younger sibling is referred as Claire's younger brother or Claire's sibling rather then, Joe is Claire's brother. A lot of fans came from ATLA and when something brings you comfort you usually want that. As a book reader you can see this is the book understory as well, back in the early 2000's a book would come out and be successful and an influx of books similar to that story/plot would also be released because that book did so well, instead of coming up with new ideas and it not doing as well. I think that not only is the creators of the show wanting to stay similar to ATLA, but also some of the Fans, I think the Dragon prince has a great potential for the upcoming season, especially sense seasons 1-3 did so well. I also think a lot of fans came from ATLA and expected something similar, and then would compare it rather then the new gen not having seen ATLA and just enjoying the show for the show itself. Anyway this is a long ramble but thanks if you read it lmao
I'd be interested in a follow up with season 5 and what you thought. I think its a big improvement over 4 story wise, but a lot of the same problems you described are still around.
S4 took a big step words cutting a full dimension off most of its characters, and I don't know if it can honestly come back from that. Everyone is splintered, largely doing their own thing, and few have concrete goals that align with the other characters. The show WAS on a journey, but S4 stood almost completely still while everyone fumbled around in the aftermath of winning ONE battle against an enemy that mostly only appeared in the last few episodes of S3. I just don't know where they go from here, and I think S4 with its time jump is just starting a different, if tangential, story to the one we all actually showed up to see in the first place.
When someone talks about things like these im always reminded of probably one of the very few useful lily orchard writing advice tips. Dont try to be the next avatar, not even the avatar writers can do it
When I heard it was goin to be a spiritual successor to to ATLA I was excited but when I first started watching it it reminded me more of Wakfu than ATLA immediately stopped comparing it to ATLA and thusly enjoyed more than everyone else seems to. I will admit tho the recent season felt short.
Fingers crossed. I hope that they’re writing with the full story in mind and that S4 was them getting the set-up out of the way, because the story has a lot more potential than it showed this season.
This Video made me realize, that the world of Xadia is perfect for a WoW/Baldurs Gate Type of RPG but not perfect for a TV Show.. Give each class another Kingdom / Realm of Elves and with that for each another start of the Game. Could even do a Pirate Class. It could give the world the depth it deserved and gives every Player the time to really dive into it. If you want to make it a trilogy and then have different Kingdoms and different Realms in each Part of it, that would be fine aswell. As long as the Regions would be filled with live.
Love the show been here since season 1 and honestly the show was standing on its own with avatar for quite a bit s2 and s3 were as good if not better than s1 and s2 of avatar I think the problem came just after the "final battle" as now they had no reason for zaria to be its own thing and I belive they probably didn't have much of a choice due to netflix
I was thinking of watching this show but the only good thing I heard about it was that the writers from atla were working on it. I literally searched “the dragon prince” on yt and there’s a lot of criticism of this season. It’s a shame that the writers couldn’t successfully replicate their past achievement with atla
This show has a most wholesome bunch of characters. (I find the people in ATLA obnoxiously whiny actually, so no surprise that I prefer TDP.) It takes its time with feelings and most things. It keeps the quirkiness grounded so it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief. Not much of "jump cut to absurd scene" comedy. There's more of punny humor which is successful at making me smile or laugh.
The other problem stems from a decision many newer shows are making these days: Short seasons. Each "season" is only 9 episodes. Why? What purpose does this serve? Since they're choosing short seasons, why only 9 episodes? Other shows will go to 10-12 episodes. Why only 9? They pack too much into to few episodes. I'd rather have more episodes to lay out more explanation and story, etc. If I can "binge" an entire season in 2 1/2 hours, its not an actual season. I just watched a movie.
Aron needs to stop living in the past and let TDP be its own thing for godsakes. Im starting to see why Netflix is on the verge of taring apart his contact lately with Season 4s bad ratings decline.
Bruh i love avatar universe and watched everything about it mutliple times but this is the first time i heard The Dragon Prince's relationship with Avatar i didnt even get a single reference when i watched Tdp (expect yip-yip scene lol that was hilarious)
There's a difference between a main show having a complete narrative arc while having supplemental material vs expecting viewers to learn about reading a book to understand a series. Mandalorian season 3 has this problem
I've been waiting for a video like this for a long time. so as I saw the first season, it was promising... but even then I had some problems with the series... the dragon prince is a series with a lot of potential... but it doesn't really use that potential for anything... a good fantasy world creates in the reader / in the viewer, I want to get there to see the world with my own eyes and have an adventure there etc ... but the dragon prince doesn't make me want to see that world with my own eyes ... and the map of the world of the dragon prince was disappointing to say the least from the first second I saw it, but I was willing to give a chance for the series... but I feel that both the story and the world are missing a common thread... the elves especially seem quite shallow and it feels as if there are no different cultures etc. in this world and what little we have seen of other cultures is like a shadow of Avatar's four nations. i'm trying to give dragon prince a chance and i want to believe that it's a good series, but it's as hard as it seems that the creators of it also have no idea what the main point of dragon prince is... so the characters are good at it (most of the time) but as they say from fantasy, the fact that the characters are good is not enough, the world itself must also be like its own character. ("unique" in its own way) and maybe I'm annoyed by the dragon prince as well because knowing that some of the creators made Avatar so they can't do the same thing again is quite depressing or rather the fact that they can't do something new... I'm I'm planning my own fantasy world for my own book series, and if nothing else, the dragon prince is a good example of what happens when the world itself is not completely ready to support this kind of story. if your story revolves around traveling across countries and continents, it's good to make sure that the world is interesting to travel and sometimes to stop at interesting places and meet different creatures and cultures... Great video!
This show made me realise that at 26, I completely fell out of touch with the shows that I used to like. I used to be a huge animation fan, but now most of what is being prodiced in the west feels like tasteless bs that can't decide if ot's for children or adults... and as a result, it's for neither. Growing up made me realise that "adult humor" is most used by cringy, angsty teens, and "adult" has a much deeper meaning compared to the shallow display of immaturity that usually is represented by "adult themes" in the morally-corrupt and decadent western world. It doesn't mean we can't appreciate jokes and have fun, but it does mean that looking at it makes you wonder how did the authors get stuck in their awkward teen phase for so long. I tried to watch the dragon prince, but it's just... not for me. I couldn't stand a whole season, so I dropped it midway out of boredom and awkwardness. I don't wanna say it's just "bad", because I clearly am not the target (Idk who is, but it sure as heck is not me) but I REALLY can't say it's good either. "Kid's entertainment" has actually way more value and can stand to the test of time way more than this time-bound bs. ATLA has such ways of storytelling that anyone can enjoy it. The same can't be said with any of it's authors attempts at making more "mature" content like TLOK or DP. They probably don't realise that all the limitations they had to endure while making content "for kids" are actually what helped them such a nuanced masterpiece, and now they are trying to recreate its success without those limitations, they are falling miles short of their objective. Also, as a side not, I really dislike the animation. That part I can tell is garbage. I'm sure they had monetary reasons to make it look so bad and cheap, but I don't care. Part of what makes a show great is its art style, and DP has the worst one out there. The clunky movements and the badly rendered cell-shaded style make me wonder who in their right minds would look at it and say "yep, this is it! This is the product I'm gonna release for the public and pretend i'm proud of!" It has less charm that a piece of cardboard soaked in cereal-milk and left to dry out in the sun by mistake.
I didnt really find an issue in them breaking up in a comic, i clearly understood what was happening between them in the show, i mean they tell us rayula left for a couple years and thats why they arent as close
I watched first 3 seasons of this show with my sisters and it was okay. Really. Just okay. I didn't and don't have anything else to say about it. When we started watching the 4th season we stopped after few episodes. Some of the things that were said didn't go along with my religious beliefs but I don't blame the show for this, I am the one who picks what to watch. But also the show just became a mess and not the "interesting mess" like in Avatar the Last Airbender (me and my sisters LOVE this show and are currently rewatching it:)). This mess is just bunch of story lines, characters, ideas, stupid conflicts put in one gigantic pile and we as viewers have to just sit and see how this pile falls over!!! In ATLA it was a very interesting mess that characters gradually worked through. It was gradually building up. While in Dragon Prince it was just given to us in the first 30 minutes. I enjoyed the animation and character design in Dragon Prince. Yeah. The story line(talking of the first three seasons) was okay?... Like I wouldn't say that it was very, very interesting but as something to watch one time it was good. These are just my thoughts. If your's are different, it's okay. Thanks you very much for the video, it was amazing. I really enjoyed watching it! Hope you all have a great day❤
These last two seasons have been disappointing, though season 5 was better than four. I just feel like the characters, especially Callum and Rayla, don't have the chemistry that made them likeable and compelling in the first place anymore? As well as the "humour" which made me actually have to pause and walk away from the show from how much it made me die inside, the weird preachy writing, and some scenes which were just so unintentionally awkward and poorly written, These new seasons really aren't hitting.
I watched the three seasons around two years ago and... God how I disliked it. The story of the first two seasons was fine. It kind of worked although it wasn't the best either. But the animation looked so bad, the dialogue was sloppy and the world building wasn't as intriguing as I would have liked. Then season three came. The season three story was supposed to be hype and get me excited. Nothing made sense though. The writing was inconsistent, the dialogue got from bad to horrible, there were way too many plotholes. The worst thing is that I wanted to like it, but there was so much wasted potential. I don't think I want to watch the new season, I don't want to be disappointed anymore
I remember I watched all 3 seasons and enjoyed it, it got my worldbuilding juices going for my own story (even though in the back of my head something felt empty about DP’s world which you stated pretty well in that section). Then when season 4 came out I didn’t hear about it right away, but when I did I binged the entire season, and my reaction at the end was “…well that was ass.” A bit harsh I know, but I am never watching season 4 again, you can literally skip 50% of it if you only want the important bits, and 90% of it if you don’t care about the Sunfire elf plot like I did since it was so boring. Just from a basic memory search of that season, I can only remember the last episode in detail, I think I even skipped an episode or two, although I do remember dying inside at the ‘yip yip’ and ‘boomerang’ jokes. As for the previous seasons now that I’m done with my season 4 tangent, I liked season 1 well enough (although I’m always a fan of the first episode/book of a large story to see where it began), season 2 bored me a bit, and season 3 was very interesting since it was just one giant climax, but there’s one big problem with season 3. Since the story up to that point was kind of clunky and the dark magic stakes were ill-defined, once season 3 was over, I had mentally checked out of the show and had no interest in binging it again since the ending was satisfying enough…despite the fact the story wasn’t done. If someone reads the first arc of your story and there’s no bait left to eat at the end so they just walk up and leave before it’s over, that will clothesline any interest in the next part of the story, by choice not to see it or just because you couldn’t be bothered to reserve time subconsciously and end up never touching it again after several moments of ‘I’ll watch it later’. Season 4 being as ehhhh and tedious as it was did not help. I may be objectively/subjectively wrong in some places with my assessment and I’m not saying I disliked the show completely (aside from season 4), but it has definitely killed most of my interest at this point with how it handled its writing and worldbuilding. Edit: Oh, and of course the worst thing they did was split up Raylum. All it could’ve offered was drama and it didn’t even do that, and they did it in a comic between seasons instead of the show itself. You had a ship that united an entire fan base and you soiled it for the sake of it. Ugh
Honestly the first 2 seasons were kind of mid tier and the 3rd was slightly better due to various pay offs in the mix. But i couldnt even finish season 4. 2 episodes was all i could stomach. Everything was just so off
I think it’s notable that Amphibia and The Owl House also had creative blood from Gravity Falls as selling points, but to a lot of people, the shows stepped out of its shadow to form their own distinctive identities defined by their creators, and while I don’t think either show is as consistently strong as Gravity Falls, I think their peaks can hit harder.
Meanwhile with Dragon Prince I don’t get that sense; I liked what I saw (just the first two seasons) but I don’t think it’s escaped Avatar’s shadow yet and I still mostly just think back to that more than enjoying the show on its own merits
Yeah, I’d definitely agree with that. You can still see Gravity Falls influence on Amphibia and Owl House but it’s not like either one is trying to replicate GF structurally. If anything, Amphibia and Owl House are more similar to each other than they are GF, but they’re great examples of showrunner’s learning from previous success but not tying themselves to it.
It’s a double-edged sword with the Dragon Prince, because the more like ATLA it is, the more it appeals to ATLA fans, but then you’re basically asking for the shows to be compared and right now, I’m not sure TDP can go toe-to-toe with ATLA on anything.
It's kinda weird. Dragon Prince feels very much like the culmination of the Netflix philosophy to just create 'content'. The show is, inoffensive, and engaging enough to leave playing while I'm doing things around the house. But absolutely nothing about it sticks out or resonates in way that makes me really remember any given episode or moment.
It's crazy to me how much praise Gravity Falls gets. I don't get it. It's story driven sure but I'd argue The Owl House is a lot more story driven and darker. I liked The Owl House a lot more. I'd say out of Disney's modern story driven cartoons, Star vs. The Forces of Evil and The Owl House are the best by a long shot.
Amphibia wasn't that good to me. Lots of filler, boring cast, and the humans were more interesting.
@@Bustermachine Fully agree with this. Dragon Prince, especially after the latest season just feels like it exists of that makes sense. That hiatus killed them.
@sirmel11 i think the reason gravity fall gets so much recognition is because it knew how to make their fans work. In that aspect Owl house nor amphibia can't even hold a candle to Gravity falls. It doesn't seem like it because all the mysteries already been revealed and the show already ended in todays time but back in the day, fan community was completely different than fans now days cause there is nothing to to solve anymore. Gravity falls knew how to make the fans perfectly go crazy through hidden message's and mysteries.
Everybody who actually was in the middle of the peak fan economy during the show was still running and releasing new episodes for the fans. Lets just say that Gravity falls fans in the past had completely different kind of fan atmosphere than Owl house and Amphibia fans. Sure there was normal fans also there but it had far more focused and imaginative and wild fan base than Owl house and amphibia. Their fans themselves acted as bonus and their thoeries where actually really intuitive and interesting and every single content creator based around GF having their own future development of GF story was just made Gravity falls fandom a absolute once in life time kind of fandom atmosphere.
(what i mean fan economy is that fans making their own conspiracy and theories about the GF world etc. Its fans literally desperately looking into every bit of nook and cranny of the show to explore and predict mysteries or imaginary mysteries. Overall fandoms engagment in short i guess😅)
Agreed. The “boomerang” and “yip yip” jokes were JARRING, and are given such drawn-out prominence that hardcore dragon prince fans who’ve NOT seen avatar *are alienated from their own show.* Avatar should not be required background to fully understand the show you’re watching!
Gags like the post-credit scenes and staff/boomerang in Rex Igneous’s lair aren’t intrusive, but this overall lack of subtlety and restraint with the jokes bled over to the show’s main humor-like the infamous fart jokes, and dragged-out “jelly tart” misunderstanding.
2 meaningless references are gonna alienate Dragon Prince fans? I’m sorry, but average Atla fan logic.
@@vibezonegaming “Average ATLA fan logic” you say that as if most TDP fans aren’t ALTA fans also? The creators used their connection for marketing; discounting my words based on perceived bias towards ATLA is reductive and inaccurate.
I never said the references were alienating me from enjoying the show; I said they (the boomerang one in particular) make no sense in the TDP logic.
If it’s in TDP but requires knowledge of ATLA to get the joke, it’s a weak joke. It could’ve been written better to work within the confines of TDP; like Callum asking Nyx if her boomerang staff is magic and geeking out. That would’ve been in-character for Callum, whilst drawing attention to the parallels between him and Sokka.
@@Zephirite. Yeah, I wouldn't have even hit play if I didn't know that Aaron Ehasz was the creator of TDP. While Bryke is a great team and I liked most of Korra, Avatar's best creative decisions were Ehasz's (making Toph a girl, expanding Zuko's arc, etc.). I just really wish they'd brought him back for Avatar Studios.
I just viewed those jokes as Easter Eggs and didn't mind them. Like bonus things that DVD's used to have.
yeah i watched the dragon prince with my mother before avatar and she was just lost at the avatar reference jokes. Just blankly staring and furrowing her brows and stuff. I felt second hand embarrassment FOR THE SHOW.
Yeah I've never watched ATLA and I kinda just sat blank faced at most of the jokes from the last two seasons, now ik why LOL. They are referencing to something I don't know about..every episode..every season..
The handling of dark magic has a lot of missed potential. We're told its bad, but were shown that it often is not bad. The characters say that you have to kill magical creatures to use it, but we see multiple times characters just using plants, inorganic material, and parts of living creatures (such as using the dragon horn to get over the lava river) without killing the creature. So what the show tells us is not what it shows us.
I keep hoping someone will make a vegetarian type argument. Dark magic is bad because it kills creatures, ok well do you eat meat? IIRC both humans and elves are not vegetarians. Why is it bad for me to kill a deer to save a paralyzed person, but its ok for a hunter to kill a deer to feed their family. The hunter could theoretically become a farmer and feed their family that way, there is no other solution other than dark magic to save the paralyzed person.
And like that whole sequence of the back story with the lava monster they killed, I would trade one lava monster to feed 100K people every time. There is so much missed room for nuance. I feel like dark magic would have been a great opportunity for the message "many things are not inherently good or evil, but more like tools, that depend completely on how they are used" and "just because something looks or sounds scary, does not mean that it is bad"
The “Dark Magic is pure evil thing” is one of the reasons I had trouble getting into the show into I eventually just quit a few episodes into season 2. To me, it doesn’t help that the story is going for a “humans bad because Dark Magic” but then shows that humans are relatively defenseless against other creatures! What do Elves and Dragons expect humans to do? Let themselves be eradicated by much stronger creatures with magic?
With Callum being able to pick up on rune and primordial magic, it seems humans do have the capability to some degree, but probably needed more time and guidance to get some type of mastery over it. So it makes me think that the Elves and Dragons just didn’t want the extra competition, which is why they constantly fought against humans. The humans then had to find a quicker way to learn magic because they weren’t able to slowly figure things out. The times we do see Dark Magic being used, it’s normally as a way to assist the user or someone they care about. Oh no, Claudia killed a fawn to heal Soren’s broken body! How terrible 🙄 not like animal parts aren’t used in other ways like clothing and furniture.
Dark Magic seems to use parts of living things in spells, but why is that inherently bad? Because “humans don’t respect the balance like they should!”?
I feel like this wouldn’t be an issue if humans had an innate strength or advantage over other creatures, but they don’t. They are a species learning how to survive in a world constantly attacking them.
It’s one of those tropes I’m becoming annoyed by in fantasy nowadays. The “humanity is corrupted and the magical, nature creatures are pure good because they are one with the natural order” or something like that. The Elves and Dragons aren’t portrayed as peaceful, go with the flow beings. They have weapons and ways to attack others. This means they also engage in conflict and not necessarily only with humans. So the narrative seems to be “humans shouldn’t fight against strong magic creatures even when said creatures attack them.” Was my problem when the main group got mad at Soren for killing the dragon who PURPOSEFULLY terrorized a town. Sorry, but no. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
@@jendoe9436 yeah the show could have done a lot better with Nuance, especially since its the writers from Avatar who had several episodes showing the better sides of the fire nation. What are other shows that do what you're talking about?
I think that the show struggles to show why dark magic is bad. I mean we get the "look they kill this cute animal" argument. But you can also use items like bones or animal rests. Dont tell me that when you are eat meat you also eat the bones.
Then we get the dark magic is a shortcut argument. The easy way. But why is the easy way bad. It is like telling that calculators are bad and we should do math with pen and paper.
We only get told that dark magic is bad by the "good" guys. Oh dark magic is bad because of aaravos. So that means just defeat aaravos and dark magic is fine.
If one show does its magic system well then its the anime full metal alchemist. There is also a unethical way of using alchemy for powerful effects. I think that the dragon prince can learn one or two thing from this anime in potraying dark magic.
yeah how the show handles dark magic is honestly really bad, it's basically just "dark magic is bad because it is always bad in fiction". like you and the other comments said, just because it uses living things doesn't necessarily make it bad (they eat meat, they use fur so why is this part so wrong) especially when 80% of the time it only uses parts like lizard tales or horns, aka expendable things. want to know a REALLY simple fix to convey how bad dark magic is, instead of the major reason the elves/dragon hate it being "it kills things & uses them" make it that using dark magic is less about the body but more about it destroys the creatures soul (or at least part of the whole soul) it's a slight shift but makes a big difference.
Also, I as well hate how the show is just unanimously going with "humans are the bad guys" especially because the elves and dragons aren't hot shit either, half the time they are very arrogant and condescending to humans. like they decide to banish an entire race of people to the section of the continent that has no magic/is much harsher just because a few humans decided to do dark magic when they should have instead just dealt with the fact there are creatures that dwarf them in power and shouldn't do anything to protect/put them at an even playing field. It especially sucks because the 1st season felt like it was trying to convey an idea that both sides were at fault and neither were in the right but nope they decided to do the "humans were the bad ones, elves & dragons noble" because again "that's what the rest of current fantasy fiction says"
lastly, regarding the lava golem, I feel it was 100% justified even with it being the last of it's kind because it's the LAST of it's kind. it had no hope of continuing it's species because it's the last one so it would have died a slow, lonely, and miserable death so it was better to put it out of it's misery and at least this way it both went out fighting and it's death meant hundreds could live.
i also hoped, we would get a little bit more nuance, but the problem is it lacks so much world building, that we actually don't know much about elven society. Looking at dark magic, do we really know that elves hate dark magic, rayla seems to hate it, but Terry seems pretty chill about it and the sun elven queen just tried to cleanse viren from it and lets not forget we still have to find one elf, who hates humans in general. We also don't know what the relationship between dragons and elves are, i mean humans killed the dragon king, but the elves didn't seem to care that much, except for some moon elf assassins, who set out to kill Harrow and Ezran, a kid by the way, which by the way the show never cared to address, how messed up it is, that runaan tried to kill a kid, just for being the son of Harrow. That's like really evil stuff. Also didn't zubeia order the death of ezran, weird that this is never brought up between those two. There is more that isn't really explained but those are the most egregious to me.
This perfectly encapsulates my problem with the show. I binged it recently and while I liked the beginning, I started to lose interest.
But now I realize, it always felt like the show was focusing on the wrong thing.
We don’t need to see the other kingdoms, especially since we haven’t seen them again.
I don’t care about the gang’s travel to the earth dragon since it does absolutely nothing and the earth dragon throws a tantrum and the gang doesn’t get the map anyway.
I don’t care about Claudia’s boyfriend because it’s never explained why an elf fell in love with a dark mage and it doesn’t look like anything Claudia does bothers him.
I don’t care about the Sun Elf being in camps if nothing is being done about! I get that there’s civil strife but nothings being done and we have no clue why they aren’t reclaiming the city. We know there’s beasts that curse you when bitten but they only attack during the day, you can easily fly or horse your way in and try to fix it. Do they not know what’s been done to their Sun seed? Why do they even need it? Their power comes from the Sun, what makes the Sun seed special?
And I don’t care about the “Mystery of Aaravos” because Zubeia told us nearly everything we need to know and we haven’t seen him since the end of season 5.
It’s almost like the show doesn’t want you to care because there’s always something more interesting it could be focusing on.
I want Ezran talking to that child queen and relating to her about what’s it’s like to lose your parents so young and being forced upon a throne. I want discussion of who’s to be the next dragon king, if the egg was thought to be destroyed, why has no other dragon tried to claim the throne? I want Claudia and Viren to find out Callum can cast spells without dark magic, have them react and question the sacrifices they made and forced on others. I want Soren to become a capable man and not the dumb idiot the writers want them to be.
And most of all, I want the characters to have more questions about Aaravos.
Why is a star touched elf so powerful? What is star magic based on, is it related to how Aaravos could cast different elemental spells when defending Viren? Is Aaravos in touch with dark magic? He seems very knowledgeable in dark magic spells. Why was Aaravos so bent on manipulating others, he’s immortal and has incredible magic, what did he have to gain? How was he tricked into the prison? What does “Aaravos’ key” do aside from glowing at different elemental magic?
There’s so much the story can do but it always seems like it refuses to focus on it.
Wow, that was well in detail. You summed up a lot of the problems this show has.
I absolutely despise how they treat Soren as the comic relief. Because "white man = stupid or evil" bullshit.
In the very first season it was ALMOST like they were trying to present nuance to dark magic. "Oh, if we didn't use dark magic, millions of people would have starved." And then they hand waved that away with "well, killing one monster which we are at war with is never worth the lives of 5 million subjects." It seems like the show is so determined to moralize without conflict that they've literally come out and said "yes, mankind should die, because they're all evil." It would be one thing if that was the elves' view of man, but that's the SHOW'S view of man.
The show has dragons and elves literally genocide humanity, yet its humans fault at everything. This show enrages me so much over it.
19:07 I am reminded of Avatar's episode 'The Storm' where an old fisherman criticizes Aang for turning his back on the world. Many episodes in ATLA actually show the townspeople with one main spokesperson to voice their povs. I do miss that in DP, bc I actually like the C plot.
right? i was really hoping whoever destroyed he painting would come forward or a sun fire elf would directly complain to the queen. it’s so tedious without actually hearing the conflict they keep mentioning but never showing
Here’s the thing, TDP closely associating itself with ATLA is an incredibly risky move. Because if the the show ever stumbles (such as in S4) fans of TDP (who are also fans of ATLA) will tear it to pieces.
I'm glad someone finally brings up just how much TDP seems to want to be like ATLA and can't seem to leave its shadow. Fans compare them nonstop just because some of the crew worked on both shows and immediately assume TDP is like a spiritual successor when in reality it's not and, in my opinion, shouldn't try to be. Just let TDP be its own thing. If I wanted to watch a show that is like ATLA I would just watch ATLA.
I feel like that's been a major problem with a lot of animated shows nowadays. Every time a new show comes out, everyone says "This is the new avatar, this is the new avatar, this is the new avatar" both by reviewers/fans and the show itself trying to mimic avatar, which often times results in them superficially copying story beats/elements from the show. we really need to stop treating avatar as the pinacol of western cartoon shows, because as amazing as the show is, its not the only one. shows like batman tas, samurai jack, spectacular spiderman and many others are just as great and don't just try to chase avatar's story
i mean fans do constantly compare them but tdp seems to want to be like atla too and thats the main issue imo. tdp and atla are similar in many ways so the comparisons are inevitable. atla is one of the most well loved shows of all time so pretty much anytime there's a new animated show on the scene, people compare it to atla because of how good atla was. the issue is when the creators try to replicate story beats or worldbuilding or other elements of the story but do it with poor execution because that makes the show bad
The world has a lot of merit but it fails in creating an immersive world like avatar. Honestly I think that’s what fans want when they see shows be deemed “the new avatar” the want a completely immersive setting that is magical and well established.
o no, u rly do have to add the T in TDP 🤣
Even on its own S4 is pretty awful. Found this video because I just finished S4 and was completely confused as to what the fuck happened. Did the writers die before S4 was written? Did Netflix fire the whole team and started new? Because there’s such a stark difference in writing quality and the first seasons weren’t exactly the best either, but they were fun. The world the creators made is completely wasted on this show. I say Netflix reboots the whole thing in a few years once this show is over. They could do much better.
From a humour perspective I think the writers need to understand that kids ARE NOT watching Dragon Prince. They're not. The fanbase is 99% Avatar fans looking to relive the glory days and so closely following the careers of people who worked on it. And Avatar aired almost 20 years ago. Every single fan of Avatar is an adult now, unless they're a kid who's parent showed them Avatar. Therefore while it's fine to have a light hearted tone that is welcoming to kids, the humour needs to ditch the poop and fart jokes because adults don't find it funny. The whole show in general seems desperate to be a kids show while completely misunderstanding its core audience. Avatar was able to be incredibly mature and dark at times while still being kid friendly.
I mean as much as I want to agree with you, kids don’t engage in fandom, kids aren’t really on the internet in the way scaremongers will have you believe, their presence, especially in animation communities is largely an invisible majority. If you where to look on the internet you would presume the audience of a show like The Owl House is mainly 14 and up but the only people I’ve met and spoken about the show with are little kids, the type of people who don’t leave reviews on shows, make video essays or Reddit posts. I think they understand their audience perfectly fine.
I can assure you there’s kids that watched avatar lmao, it still aired on nickelodeon well into the 2010’s. It’s also on netflix.
My little sister watches the dragon prince? She just doesn’t post about it online because… she’s a kid. I’m pretty sure kids are watching the show lol
I agree with you, but I think a better way to say this is that not all children are 5 year olds. You can make a "kids show" and aim it at older kids. This show could easily be aimed at 11-14 year olds. All the fart jokes and the jokes that are like "GET IT?? GET THE PUNCHLINE" are jokes that would work best with younger kids like 4-7 year olds. But the rest of the series is much more serious and not something that 4-7 year olds would find entertaining because it's so plot heavy. I feel like the writers don't realize the difference between different ages of children and think ALL kids find fart jokes funny AND can follow a plot heavy story. It's a massive tonal dissonance that makes the entire show feel awkward and boring at the same time. The writers don't know who their audience is
Another thing is if there were any kids like 9 to 13 from season one they have since grown up with the show. They are now mid teens to voting age. The show needs to mature now.
I never thought about how uniting Rayllum was, especially compared to the shipping war nightmare that was Korra. It really does make me even sadder that they went with the melodramatic breakup just to shake things up... and then it didn't even cause either of them to really change or grow as people during the separation. I knew that graphic novel was going to be trouble as soon as I heard about it. I always hate when vital story information is hidden in supplemental content. Wonder who pushed that idea.
If I had to hazard a guess is that the ship kinda formed naturally instead of being made naturally, both characters would see in the other something they wanted to attain, their relationship reinforced the original game and they sounds to be attractive to each other physically. The elements where there.
The problem with season 4 is that this show don't really know how to push forward characters, much like the other royal kid that showed up on season 3 and I got the impression the showruners really wanted us to like her, the plot points of season 4 (the breakup and the sun elf subplot) kinda fell flat because they never really had meaningful opposition, the showrunners just tell you the correct opinion and twist the story to suit.
Honestly this is an issue that Sour a lot of tokusatu protagonist for me, this called main rider syndrome.
I think that the secret of avatars success is less is more. Avatar is about the 100 year war and every episode deals directly or indirectly with it. Avatar focuses on the main group and zuko. Dragon prince has 3 groups in each season (main group, viren and Soren/claudia s1//amaya s2 onward). There are simply too many characters that take too much screen time (you could cut amayas plotline out of the story, all she did was to be an obstacle in s1e4) . And it gets worse, because we will get introduced to tidebound elves and there are 4 more human kingdoms (would the story be that different if there were be only one Kingdom?).
The plot of season 4 is so lacking that its difficult to guess what will happen season 5. In season 1 to 3 the main group brings the dragon prince to the queen. In season 4 we waste time with sun fire elves domestic issues, bad jokes and relationship dramas. In the very first episode of s4 they didnt even explain the state of the world.
What happened in the last 2 years? What about dark magic (wasnt this kinda the central conflict? S4 kinda ignores this).
Yeah, I definitely agree that there’s a “less is more” quality to stories like this sometimes.
For these grand, epic quest type stories, you want to keep things focused to maintain that sense of momentum with the pacing. It’s an adventure, as soon as you stop moving, it’s hard to pick up the pace again.
It’s funny that what you’re describing about TDP having issues keeping focus because it has too many characters is a problem I also had with Korra. I won’t get into that too much because it’s a whole differ topic but it’s telling that too shows that tried to follow up Avatar with the “it’s ATLA, but even more!” approach both ended up having similar issues.
honestly, the entire janai/Amaya storyline was completely a waste of time. they could've fit in way more good stuff, but they filled it up with a random storyline that doesn't affect the main conflict at all.
Absolutely agree. It’s success doesn’t come from its depth but from the perfect handling of a heroes journey with a familiar yet strange world.
Adding more to it kills not only its inherent charm but also opens it up to being judged against more complex shows.
@@VogJam I think part of what helped the original show was that, with Avatar, each season concluded with a climax that evolved the overall story to its next phase. The first season is largely a small scale adventure, the Gaang is mostly trying to avoid being captured and helping where they can, as they journey north. The season climax changes the status quo.
The elimination of the fire nation fleet not only changes the military calculus. It brings the avatar to the forefront of the conflict between the Earth Kingdom and the Fire Nation. In as much as a Children's show is going to demonstrate it, a political element to the Avatar's roll is introduced.
The third season evolves the show yet again, progressing off the fall of the Earth Kingdom and building to the final spiritual showdown between Aang and Ozai, between Zuko and Azula. In a lot of ways, the second half of the third season is a return to the smaller stories of the first season . . . but these characters are very different now. It's showcasing how they've changed before the final showdown.
I don't really get that feeling of evolution of Dragon Prince. It just feels like 'stuff happening' without a firm payoff to each phase.
@@Bustermachineagreed with this. I saw all the season of TDP before the Netflix name swap to another subtitle. Watching the newest season with the timeskip, it felt like nothing happened.
The story coulda ended there with the return of the dragon prince to his mother. I woulda been fine with it. The fight with Viren was so… not so climatic.
"To achieve peace, first you must imprison gay Satan in the mirror dimension!"
That line alone makes this video 10/10.
The dragon prince suffers from poor writing and poor choices. It's clearly split between trying to be for kids while being more "mature" but never committing to either, and it doesn't have much going on in universe, so it goes at a slow pace and shoves random disconnected things together.
The blood moon elf is a prime example of this, she's an assassin and they shoot her scene like she's a super lethal assassin but then cut to later where she's actually killed no one and really just knocked a few of them out, she's also very cringe from her personality to her weapons, her powers are supposed to be cool but since they present her in such a safe way she's not really threatening.
The plot is loose and that's generous way to describe it so when they try to build up momentum they fail because it's hard to tell what's important and what isn't because they never keep a focus on it.
I really wanted the show to be good but none of the care or decisions that went into avatar are present here, it's just such a non-committal show made for an audience of neither children nor tweens.
In regards to the humor, Aaron Ehasz has gone on record to say that even he thinks the jokes got out of hand in season 4, and that they'll be making an effort to tone them down going forward.
As for season 4 specifically, I think the reason it feels so off is because the show had literally lost its plot prior to the season starting. Season 3 was the end of the original order, and they made the deliberate choice to resolve the immediate conflict there, so that the show would have a viable ending if they didn't get renewed. And then they were, and since they no longer had a plot, they had to establish a new one. I have a feeling things will be better going forward now that the new groudwork has been laid.
TBH the Dragon Prince has never had good humor (I think I laughed maybe 5 times throughout the first 3 seasons), but season 4's humor was particularly bad. I would say painfully bad even.
@@AccumulatedKnowledge I think it was always going to be a long-running series but the quest to return Zim home was going to run adjacent to Aaravos' return. Given how much lore would've been involved with Aaravos', I'm guessing the crew made the decision to prioritize Zim and save Aaravos for a later date.
@@AccumulatedKnowledge from what I’ve seen, my guess is that the returning zim arc was originally supposed to take 4 seasons. However, they didn’t know if they’d get approved for a 4th season, so they decided to condense it to 3. This meant that when they did get approved for seasons 4-7, they had one more season than they had originally planned. It hasn’t been confirmed, but I think this could explain why season 4 has so little in terms of direction and plot, it was never meant to be part of the aaravos plotline
If it was truly suppose to end at S3 that would be majorly concerning
(And also not true: Aaravos for example)
@@Caddance Don’t think it was most likely the crew was being precautious in case it got cancelled as Netflix loves to do that.
One of my biggest issues with this show is its social commentary. Im not the biggest fan how they go for the whole 2 sides things. From what i understand the elves and dragon hold a monoply on magic and literally forced out all the humans out of xadia. Yet the show treats this as both sides need to come together. It also doesnt pop up and the main plot doesnt focus on it too much. At least in atla they point out the colonial and genocidal nature of the fire nation is a bad thing , but they dont brush it as the old they are all orcs. They point out the flaws in propaganda, education and systemic flaws of the fire nation that encourages this aggresive behavior, from dragon slaying, anger fire bending, and propaganda education.
They also don’t explain why “dark” magic is so bad. Why is Claudia evil for killing a faun for magic to save her brother. If she had killed it for meat to save her starving brother no one would have batted an eye. How is dark magic any worse than not being vegan? And besides, the humans don’t have a choice but to use dark magic. The elves and dragons are living it up in Zadia with all the “ethical” magic they could want and the the humans are supposed to what? Just lay down and die in the terrible non magic lands? Why can’t they use the one favor they got from life to make a better life for themselves?
I swear, am I the only one who hated the elves? I couldn't even invest myself in watching the show because of stupid social commentary.
@@Nobadi56 The social commentary murdered the show for me. Humanity was literally genocided because of small group of dark mages(with no proper explanation why dark magic even is that bad) and yet it's a 'fault of both sides' on words and 'humanity is just bad and needs to do better' in narrative. It's horrendous.
@@DeathKitta If I see another nature good, human bad story, I'm going to fucking lose it.
@DeathKitta And this is why Studio Ghibli's "Princess Mononoke" is incredible. It looks at both sides and shows civilization and natures many virtues and vices.
My biggest qualm with this show was actually how they dealt with Verin. He’s supposed to be this big bad evil guy who’s also super charismatic, but every time he’s tried to do something evil of note, some random person’s just spoke out saying, “I DON’T TRUST VERIN, SO YOU SHOULDN’T EITHER!” then everyone just….goes with it. They’re trying to make him an unsympathetic guy, but when everything he does fails, he becomes the underdog, and audiences are gonna root for him when in fact, HE’S THE BAD GUY!
He isn't outright bad he is a moraly gray character who has his ups and downs.Yes he wanted to kill the prices and treats his own children as tools but he was ready to scrifice his life for Harrow and was alwayes obidient to him. And his primary objective is protection of Catholis and Humanity.
@@Alaryk111he’s not morally grey and the series makes it clear that he’s not. They made him an abusive father for Christ sake. It’s very clear they wanted viren to be seen as a bad guy
@@BabyGirlTiny Yeah he was an abussive father and his entire arc in S4 is that he is regretting his past actions but he is ina situation where he can't go back. And alsot all the bad things he did was inspired by Aravoss it wasn't his own agenda. Of course it does not exonerate him from the guilt but he is much more nuanced character than a "bad guy". And he did far worse things than being abussive father so what are you proving with that?
@@BabyGirlTiny actually the show was doing a great job at portraying Viren as a morally gray, pretty nuanced antagonist until season 3 when they just made him plain evil and threw that all away
@@manuba_ Yeah I actually enjoyed him spiralling into paranoia(and its not like he was wrong, the history already proved it), but when literally every other human are either dumb or harmfully saint(yes i will give my food to a starving kingdom which will lead MY people to die from starvation too. no killing One lava monster to prevent ANYONE from dying was a morally bad decision) made me actively rute for Viren. And then I guess writers noticed that and then just flipped Viren from this to suddenly Muhaha murder I am eviiiiil. The show REFUSES to do nuiance and is incapable in the most basic chidlish good-bad moral. They show A kicking B and say A is in the right and expects us to go along with it.
I dropped this after season 2. Every issue people are complaining about now we’re already evident back then. I knew how this would end.
I mean, at this point the only thing carrying the show is aaravos and rayllum tbh. I really think they should keep aaravos's mystery around.
This!
I felt this way too. When they did easter eggs in s1-2, I was going nuts like a seal with 'member berries. Not long until it ran multiple times that I just roll my eyes and think "ok ok let's get the actual plot going please". The show is relying too much on the showrunner's past credentials but not delivering the same quality it wants to be. It's losing sight and neglecting what's important to the actual show/story. Not to mention, any references to a pop culture in any fantasy setting really just takes you out of the mysticism.
I think many people actually are hanging out to the show, because of some sort of hope that they will fix Rayllum, the unintentional but actual heart of the show. I can guarantee you that if the drop the ball completely, the show will dissapear in tatters
so true. I'm only excited for season 5 because of rayllum, so they better not screw up
Nah, I'm here for Aaravos, viren and claudia
unpopular but i’m more of a c plot person so i’m here for amaya/janai or anything else they wanna handle on the side
Honestly, missing that morally gray area can really damage a show if they’re trying to focus on complex themes. There should be villains in that are morally gray especially in shows dealing with war and peace. Both Avatar shows nailed this with some of the show’s antagonists whether they be for an episode or a whole season. It adds a whole other layer of complexity to a villain beyond just being the bad guy.
When you realize "the dragon prince" is now "the mystery of aravos"
*looks at the titles* ….3 seasons/books under one title, then 4 in a similar but different title? Hmmm……coincidence? Possibly.
Tbh It felt like Zym wasen't needed in season 4&5 . Love the dragon but he barely didn anything.
@@pillowfluf5412 right
@pillowfluf5412 Exactly! Like Zym, the literal plot device of the first 3 seasons is just completely irrelevant at this point and completely side-lined!
I thought I was the only one who thought this, but everyone praises it like it IS Avatar.
That generally confused me.
TDP does have its die-hard fans. If people enjoy the show, that’s great. I’m sure some of them prefer it to ATLA, and it’s not like there aren’t things to enjoy about it.
Personally I do still like TDP, but it’s no ATLA. I sometimes feel like there’s a really good story buried in there, given the history and the conflict they’ve set up between the humans and Xadia, but the show is struggling to find it.
same honestly. i think its an okay show, probably fun for the kids (and thats the target audience so i can't be too mad at it). but atla is honestly on a different level. atla is just in a different conversation with the level of craft behind it. tdp's animation is nice but it's really not holding a candle to atla in the writing department
It feels like it's hard to find a good show nowadays
I know what you mean, I’ve got plenty of current shows that I like but maybe only a handful that I love.
We had the Owl House, but it got cut short.
I Think the dragon prince is good.
It really isn’t
this is a good show , you are trying to compare it to one of the best animated shows of all time so ya hard to live up to that doesn't mean its bad
Season 1 - It was new and exciting, a bit clunky with exposition and dialogue, I had my doubts, but overall interesting enough to keep me engaged with the new world/characters.
Season 2 - It was a struggle. The jokes were long and painful, it felt like a lot of filler episodes with minimal progress being made in the journey, and severely lacked serious/permanent consequences for the multitude of stupid decisions made by characters
Season 3 - Most enjoyable season, by far. Jokes were funny, characters found their identities, story/pace finally had a satisfying flow each episode and the final battle had such a grand finality… I wouldn’t have been surprised if they just ended the story there.
Season 4 - Three years wait and I had no idea there was homework I was supposed to be doing 😂
When it was revealed that Rayllum had ‘broken up’… “WHAT?! NO! What did I miss?!”
I was so convinced I accidentally skipped a season, that I went back and rewatched the first 2 episodes of season 3, then the last 2…. And I honestly had no idea what I was missing until I watched your video and learned about the comic, which I will probably never read, so thank you for clarifying 👏🏻
I'm very happy this video popped up on my recommended, I was just thinking about these problems and you said everything I was thinking. Settings are very important for us the audience to understand the story, it's not difficult to label a map in the opening and would make things more immersive and exciting for the viewers.
I also feel like the show is afraid of making it's characters do wrong. Rayla doesn't apologise to Callum for ditching him and Ezran is apparently in the right for bringing the Dragon Queen on the grave of Katolis' soldiers (which, fun reminder: the conflict wasn't long ago, our characters were still alive during the war as were their adult citizens). Ezran's naivete worked in earlier seasons because he was a child but he's a king now and needs to learn to prioritise his kingdom, something I feel like he and more other characters don't do. The show feels like it's telling us we should favor Xadians over humans because humans can do 'dark magic' (which was the reason they got kicked out but dark magic was their way of becoming equals and doesn't always require harming others). The show has too many grey themes and story elements to play everything black and white.
It feels like The Legend of Korra is a more original story than The Dragon Prince, despite ATLA and LOK literally being part of the same canon.
Er. I know this a is very late but not really, TLoK was just as defined by TLA if not more they are just obsessed with being the superficial opposite, hell )
khora can very much be defined of being not!Ang at the start.
@@MrRobot-0 I don’t want to resurrect the LOK debate in this comment section, but I will say this. Regardless of your thoughts on the quality of LOK, it does feel like a very distinct show. That has to count for something, at least imo
@@spaghettiwarrior1573disagree they cling on to familiar things like crazy and over saturate things we love from TLA even to a fault, breaking the preset rules we had in place in TLA, but tbh I’d say the writing of the Dragon’s Prince is a similar to the TLA in that’s it’s fairly decent though lacks world building/maturity/continuity that we had in TLA, TLoK was just poorly written and gave me more of the latest Starwars trilogy vibe more than anything, just a cashgrab banking on fandom over a beloved IP
LoK was its own thing and very creatively driven. I mean, Nick gave up on it with Season 2 so the writers did their own thing.
Legend of Korra is so much better written than Dragon Prince that it's not even funny. Korra continues the Avatar universe, but has its own tone and story. Meanwhile, Dragon Prince isn't even related to ATLA, but feels like a cheap copy with generic fantasy elements.
I think the biggest problem with the show is how short it is. You can't perfectly convey these types of themes, messages, storylines in 9 episodes/25 minutes a season. Now I absolutely love the show and enjoy every episode, but there's moments when I get to the season finale and I feel lost and as if there were so much more they wanted to show.
Now if they had Avatar's 20 episode per season, then I think they can flesh out all these extra characters, storylines and sub plots with ease.
I mean 25 minutes times 9 episodes, that’s just under 4 hours or about 2 movies in length. You can and should be able to tell a story in that time, it’s just gotta have less stuff than an avatar season.
Oh wow. That is so not what I expected Sokka's voice to look like.
To be fair, it has been like 15 years since he voiced him, dude’s allowed to age 😅
Ugh. The first moment of the video and it had to remind me of the cringefest that season 4 was, especially with the fart jokes. The comedy went so bad, the creators of The Dragon Prince had to address that in their QA, promising they'd tone down childish humor. I'm glad you address this problem in this video. Nothing kills my suspension of disbelief when they discuss existential problems like having only 30 days of life so why not enjoy it and then... we get fart jokes. *sigh* The writers can't have both in the same show.
This season was not worth waiting 3 years, a waste of screening time, terrible pacing, and disappointment. The main quest to find the earth dragon should have been done in 3 episodes. The problem is they season 5 is already written and in production so very little will be changed pacing-wise and so on. It's really disappointing to see writers still treat this show as a children's show while talking about enslavement and other mature things.
The creators of The Dragon Prince should learn from DreamWorks how to make mature story that can entertain kids and adults (example: The Puss in Boots The last wish)
Not to mention DreamWorks also has:
- Kung Fu Panda movies which deals with loss and corruption (KFP 2 being a big example!)
- How to Train Your Dragon with messages of trying to coexist among different groups and building confidence in yourself
- Spirit about not letting terrible circumstances crush you (the breaking scene and numerous close calls) and learning to trust
- The Prince of Egypt which took a pretty heavy Torah/Biblical event and managed to respectfully retell it with musical numbers (The Plagues and Deliver Us still gives me chills)
- Rise of the Guardians where Jack faces a world in which he’s unseen and suffers intense loneliness and confusion about his place in it
- Even the Shrek movies can get pretty mature with the idea of societal standards affecting your self perception and the importance of a strong support network
And that’s what just pops up at the top of my head! There’s plenty of movies and shows that can be entertaining but mature for all audiences. And honestly, TDP even on its own apart for AtLA isn’t as deep or thought provoking as most people claim. It pays lip service to it, but doesn’t dive into it as much or as well as it should.
@@jendoe9436
All of those are excellent examples from DreamWorks alone. Then their latest Puss in boots dropped the mic.
TDP is not thought-provoking at all because it literally spells it out, making the basic writing mistake of "saying, not showing" (this season 4 is the worst example); in my first impression, I understood why humans hate elves; by the crime of the few humans they banished the entire population from there. I'm sure elves were not gentle during the process either.
It also makes jokes in the bad scenarios with a lot of tension instead of using that situation to show a character's flaws and behavior.
Trollhunters is a Dreamworks production and man, the fart jokes on that one were too much and unfunny af. It has the same problem as TDP with the kid humour, even worse tbh
@@mariedit9935 It's quite a shame if Dreamworks does it too. I know they're capable of tasteful humor like in Puss in Boots The Last Wish. There is Kung Fu Panda 4 on a horizon (premiere on the 8th of March 2024) so I hope such kind of humor will be minimal... Even though the trailer already showed the fart joke there already.
I'm confused as to why Lux Aurea was abandoned. I get their power source was corrupted. . . But can't they do anything about it? And even so, what exactly are the consequences of the orb being corrupted.
Also, the fire mage had to have something else up his sleeve besides fire magic, especially when fighting his sister.
The Lux aurea aftermath was resolved in another media (tales of xadia). Yes, one has to be into table top rpgs to fully appreciate the story.
@@kalzium8857 that's honestly such a terrible storytelling decision. everything needed to understand the story of a tv show should be shown in the tv show
The worldbuilding could have been done better if there were more seasons. I agree they shouldn't have tried so hard to be avatar but I like the magic in this show anyway. The very little they explained that is. But I love how the spells were utilised.
16:10 reminds me of that one scene in the 3rd Hunger games movie. When someone points a gun at her and she talks the guy out of it, only to be shot by another person, now that was an awesome scene. I know it is a different context, but the opposition to the quest of the main characters had personality and was actually visible and influenced the plot and characters.
That is really lacking in Dragon Prince, especially since Ezran is such a bad king who would bring his people to ruin, he trully is just a child that doesnt understand the world even after everything he (should have) encountered in his quest. Even I as a viewer was upset that he let the dragon queen come to a sacred place!
For a real world example this is the equivalent of inviting foreign war criminals or by association to a graveyard of experimented/tortured povs.
i watched the first five episodes of the show with a friend and already bemoaned the slow scenes from the get go. upon faced with the choice to start ep 6, my friend went "idk, I'd kinda want to see where this goes, something cool could still come up" - "it's been five episodes. if we still aren't sold and still waiting for the interesting shoe to drop, it's not gonna happen" haven't looked back since tbh
Weirdly enough, I was never the biggest Raylum shipper. I like them as a friendly duo, but the romance never really landed for me.
I thought breaking them up for book 4 was an interesting new direction, but the characters handled it really awkwardly. I would've preferred the angle of "girl, you've been gone for 2 years, and we'd only dated for like 2 months before that. Yeah i missed you, but now that I've moved on, we can't rekindle that."
I really enjoyed the show at first and saw a lot of potential moving forward, but then the lazy writing and really bad jokes just started to ruin it for me. I’m crossing my fingers they get back on track and tell the story I know they are capable of.
i liked this a lot!! i REALLY want to like the dragon prince but it just can’t get it together 😭
I have just found this video and had to add: Aaron had a AMA on Twitter in the lead up to the new DP season and that’s when he mentioned there was meant to be a season 4 of ATLA (something that is debunked in a documentary released after season 3’a finale) and got people talking about him and his work with DP etc.
It definitely feels like he’s trying to use ATLA for its popularity and audience
Nicely done: balanced and intelligent. Your voice is very listenable too (it does matter).
One thing I haven't seen mentioned at all (I think) is the slight change in animation style and especially the change in Callum and Rayla's character designs. I really don't like them.
I've never been a blind fan of this show. On season 2 or 3 I had a feeling they were sitting up to much than they could handle. Yeah they explained the moonshadow and fire elves but it wasn't anything special, we just understood them but they never had a big culture, it was just a few traditions, but it was fun. Just like soft magic systems you don't need full on explanations to enjoy it but I knew at one point this could become an issue if they focused on it for too long, aka this season
I always had a problem with the brothers family, it seemed to boring, like no tension. What did Callum feel when his mother married the king ? What does he feel abt his own father ? Also you are right abt the human kingdoms, I think it was a missed opportunity to not make Callum's mom be a royal member of another kingdom, so Callum would have been born and raised in another one or have uncles as kings as well. Royalty are just a bunch of uncles, sisters, cousins, which would have at least one way to connect them together
Yeah I agree with you on the second part 100% I really wanted more backstory, but sometimes I think people forget this show is meant for a younger audience. So something me and you could comprehend (Backstory, trauma, heavier topics to understand the character better) might not be understood by younger people.
@PardonMyFrench16 That's not really a good argument. Avatar the last Airbender is a show for kids and it talks about war, the horror of it and how it affect lives, and it does so very very well
Just because a show is for kids does not mean people should not put effort, kids are way smart than people give them credit for. They are not dumb, they are innocent to subjects they have never seen, that's the job of the adults to show and talk about it
It's just that in avatar we have 4 elements and which with their own people and cultures, but in the dragon prince it's double the characters and elves types so it needs more care
@@prettyspectrum6371 Yes, ATLA did do a very good job at that, and I am not saying the Dragon Prince shouldn't dive deeper into that, but I think there is a time and place, and your right kids are not dumb, but there are better ways to talk about heavier topics and there are still 3 seasons remaining so there is a lot that can be discussed, getting backstory, and understanding the characters better
Season 4 was not very good, but it is a season meant to start a base of a new story line. I also agree that they don't explain the culture of the elves or humans very well.
What I think is the problem is that they are trying to use an already successful show and not really wanting to shy away from it because they know that is what is popular. They really should take a jump and do something that is just the Dragon Prince because I'm sure people will like it.
@PardonMyFrench16 I agree. What differentiate an adult show and a kids show is how they handle their subjects, how they decide to show and deal with their meanings.
Yes, I feel the same. The dragon prince is not trying to be their own show but bringing attention to the shadow ATLA left behind, hoping people will lift their eyes and see them. But not wanting to get away from its shadow, and in turn being obscured by it and not shining in its own light as a show by itself.
I hope they learn from the mistakes of this season, in my opnion they will not be able to explain every elven culture because of time but I feel the way they treated the moonshadow elves is the way to go. Not overexplain but let the characters be in their daily life and see normal customs
@prettyspectrum6371 I think they definetly did learn from the past season. This show is definitely not for kids anymore (even the rating went up) and apparently season 5 is child's play next to the 6th that's gonna be out early 2024.
I think Kareem was right honestly that architect did some karen ass shit. They BEGGED her not to put it out.
“The bird made him c……”? I don’t know what to say
Guess I’ll just have to ask Aaron Ehasz for the answer then
So season 5 was even worse.
More stuff happens sure, but the show treads so much water it’s unreal.
The side quests don’t contribute at all to the main story and the side villain doesn’t contribute anything to the story, as he can’t decide what his goal is.
Also no new info on Aaravos. He’s STILL evil and STILL imprisoned. That’s it.
And Zym is barely even mentioned by name in the season.
The Dragon Prince isn’t even truly involved in The Dragon Prince anymore.
It’s really a shame how far it’s fallen from such a really fun 3 seasons.
It's not even that it relied on avatar and tried to be similar to it, the show itself *tells* you how big the scale is, but it turns out being incredibly *small.*
First, nine episodes are not even close to *enough* to tell the story that they want. For example, iirc in episode 4 of 5 of season 2, after Amaya passes the trial and proves she has a pure soul, she catches Jamai's interest before being dismissed to the place she was being held on. It leads us into thinking: "oh wow, are we gonna get something interesting here? They're gonna develop a friendship organi-" and before we can even finish that thought, that thread is entirely abandoned until *EPISODE 8 OF 9,* when they're already good friends, and that makes me feel *nothing.* How am i meant to be interested in their relationship, if i barely got *anything* in regards to the development of it?
Another one, in season 2 when Virren is trying to coax the other human kingdoms into war. Before even engaging into that, just like you mentioned, how am i meant to even *distinguish* them from one another, when we're never shown what their culture or attire looks like?
Anyway, we have the young queen that's in charge after her mothers died. I thought that was super interesting, because she has a *lot* of things in common with Ezran; both of them lost their parents to war, they had to assume a leadership role at a young age and mature *way* earlier than they were allowed to.
So... What even *is* there about her, besides that her moms died and she's more mature than the other rulers?
Really, there's absolutely *NOTHING* about her. We're never shown anything about her outside of that, and when she comes at the end of season 3 with the other humans with the sigil of the people who didn't want war, why should I even feel *anything?*
She just shows up with them, and there's *NO* build-up, or emotional weight to it. I get it that they're trying to tell a story with multiple, complex moving parts, but sometimes there's *too much.* They want their world to feel *large* and *complex,* with multiple moving parts that you can dive in and spend *hours* in... But that's Avatar's world, not Dragon Prince's.
Dragon Prince's world is like a fake set for a theater. It *gives* the illusion that it is much bigger than it actually is, when in reality it's as deep as a puddle.
8:14 Sorry, but the show insisted that Amaya and the Queen were together for two years. At that poit, Amaya should know traditions of Fire Elves if she was planning to marry their queen one day. She also have no respect for their other traditions, and it implies to me that queen NEVER took her on any wedding or funeral of her people. How is this happend? She never let her talk to elves or even read a book abot their history?
I generally like the dragon prince, but sometimes the characters are just a little too stupid even as comedic relief characters. And then at other times it’ll suddenly hit quite hard, like when Soren got injured or now in the newest season with Callum being tortured, Claudia’s leg or her father’s fate (actually, the newest season was quite good).
Zym pretty much lost his entire importance to the show.
I first heard someone say Corvus and my brain was like: isn't corvid, like, the genus if crows? And he's is not associated with any type of bird. Huh that's a missed opportunity.
I literally had no idea Callum and Reyla broke up, I thought they were just written badly lol
It was pretty lame to put Ezran speech a cheesy one and I don't like him that much over. The best action we had in the show showing the extent of magic battle that we can expect later
Fart jokes have sadly been a part of Dragon Prince, Korra and even A:TLA.
If you ever thought A:TLA was flawless, count how many time Sokka bring up potty breaks.
If I recall, 3 times. Twice in the 2nd episode, once in the Winter Solstice. So really not all that much, given the usual kind of humor in Nicleodeon shows.
In Korra it works because Meelo is overall a good and funny character. Kinda like Pumbaa from The Lion King.
Finally someone else who thinks the crow master should have been named Corvus!!😭😭
14:57 Is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time XD
lol thanks
That was a real last minute addition too but I knew I had to edit it in once I thought of it
The relationships between the main cast in the dragon prince feels fake and artificial, they all get along never get mad or annoyed with eachother it's just lame. In avatar they get mad and annoyed all the time, when they meet Toph for the first time, in the very next episode they were at eachothers throats yelling and fighting, and then eventually reconciled. It felt genuine. In dragon prince they are either sad or loving...
Why did they allow a baker and Ezrans bodyguard to be on the Kings council??😂😂 Please make it make sense.
It's a power move, now Ezran gets the best goodies and baked goods.
This is really my biggest beef with TDP, it's world building and magic systems suck, and it's compounded by the fact that the show tires to copy other, more popular sources of entertainment rather than coming up with anything new.
Usually a show can make it up with amazing characters and a good plot but the Dragon Prince has neither of those either, the characters are meh at best and forgettable at worst, and the plot is paper thin.
This show had so much potential, but it’s so, childish?
I guess my niece and i are in the minority when it comes to Raylum lol. For me, it felt like it came a little bit out of nowhere. Like there were no hints that they saw each other as anything other than friends prior to Rayla almost confessing to a comatose Callum, to the point where earlier THAT SAME EPISODE, i was thinking to myself something along the lines of "It's really nice that they're giving us a male-female friendship without it turning romantic" (and this is coming from someone who's normally a hopeless romantic). If they show's creative team had been given the run-time to flesh this out more (the show in general feels rather rushed due to the 9 episode per season format, but that's a larger issue with streaming services), then maybe I would have felt differently.
I don't know why my niece doesn't like the relationship, i just know that when she saw them kiss, her first response was "No. I don't want them to get married." 😂
I find it hard to believe TDP has the head writer of ATLA. The writing of Avatar was tight, focused, and consistent. But Dragon Prince is sluggish, meandering, and all over the place.
10:27 ok the thing with the dark magic being a shortcut doesn’t make sense because the reason it is a short cut is because humans aren’t born with an understanding of an arcanum (an element) the way elves are. Dark magic therefore allows them to do magic by using other creatures’ magical essence to perform spells. The reason callum can do primal magic is because he understands the arcanum (the fundamental truth of an element) and can use its magic the same way an elf mage can, while viren and Claudia can’t. Also, dark magic lets you do absolutely anything, while primal magic limits the user to one element.
1:17 just realised that 😂😂
may I say: This video is so fucking funny!! lmao the Startouch elves nationality: LGBT+ flag! lol great detail
I think the dragon prince is a good show but the writers need to stop trying to make like Avatar the last air bender and make it it’s own thing and they need to fix the lack lustre writing of season 4 it was good but the writing was dragging it down with the stupid relationship drama of season four between Calum and Rayla and too many plots going on at once and too much wokeness and too much preaching about love and peace
A few gay elves and it is now "Woke" ok.......🙄
also, the Relationship "Drama" was explained in a book on why it happened, and it really explained the characters of Callum and Rayla, Rayla this headstrong, feet first kind of gal who just wants the people she loves to be safe, and after losing everyone but Callum she goes off to find Verin, herself but that means she abandoned Callum.
Also everyone should preach about love and peace its better than hate and unrest
I'll be real, I've seen this show and it felt like ... nothing really ever happened that was actually important. The characters feel superficial too..there's nothing relatable about them and when there is it's immediately overshadowed by a quirky joke ...a joke that isn't good.
I don't think it has anything to do with Avatar, it's just not a good show.
A lot of the series felt kind of preachy with no real backing. Like, the whole dark magic thing never backed up why it was necessarily bad. Even if they took a nuanced stance later they’re obviously portraying it as a bad think based off of the scene framing and character interactions with it.
I was kind of annoyed at the child Princess scene. Like, he outlines a threat and the other monarchs agree that if everyone gets involved they would feel comfortable tackling this threat, otherwise it would be too much to handle. The child disagrees. Fair enough. War is a serious thing. Action was take against a king, but that doesn’t necessarily mean all of the human kingdoms are being threatened. What’s her concern? That everyone’s only saying yes because the other said it. That’s ridiculous. They’re considering the risks of war and how their forces would manage and she’s acting like they’re mindless idiots and after making such a stupid observation they praise her for it.
It’s just weird things like that were scenes don’t feel like reasonable interactions that weave a narrative, but sloppy happenstance to force and idea or narrative.
I can not add anything or remove any word to improve on your video. Praise be to the UA-cam Algorithm, let this get many view, or at least a view by the showrunners.
I’m definitely one who got on board for this show due to its Avatar connections. For me personally though, I really couldn’t get into the show from the outset.
I really wanted to like it, and kept holding out season after season hoping it would eventually “get good.” (If I remember correctly, I got to the end of season three, so I take it from what you say about season four, if it hasn’t grabbed me yet there’s probably no hope.)
Some of my gripes about the show were in its animation style, a fantasy world that I just found to be very generic, and a presentation and story telling approach that seemed much more focused on messaging and showing off how diverse and inclusive it was, as opposed to telling a compelling story with strong, likable characters.
Shame this show didn’t quite hit the mark for me, but I’ll always be glad I’ve got Avatar.
I really love the Dragon Prince and was disappointed in what they gave us, but I also have to remind myself that season 3 was the end of an era, so season 4 would be similar to season 1, setting up what was to come next. They started working on season 4 in 2020, which is why a lot of the humor is outdated (when Soren flossed, I think I died a little inside)
Why I think the Dragon Prince is in its shadow is sorta how a younger sibling is referred as Claire's younger brother or Claire's sibling rather then, Joe is Claire's brother.
A lot of fans came from ATLA and when something brings you comfort you usually want that. As a book reader you can see this is the book understory as well, back in the early 2000's a book would come out and be successful and an influx of books similar to that story/plot would also be released because that book did so well, instead of coming up with new ideas and it not doing as well.
I think that not only is the creators of the show wanting to stay similar to ATLA, but also some of the Fans, I think the Dragon prince has a great potential for the upcoming season, especially sense seasons 1-3 did so well.
I also think a lot of fans came from ATLA and expected something similar, and then would compare it rather then the new gen not having seen ATLA and just enjoying the show for the show itself.
Anyway this is a long ramble but thanks if you read it lmao
I'd be interested in a follow up with season 5 and what you thought. I think its a big improvement over 4 story wise, but a lot of the same problems you described are still around.
Season 4/10 is better then all Dragon Prince jokes.
S4 took a big step words cutting a full dimension off most of its characters, and I don't know if it can honestly come back from that. Everyone is splintered, largely doing their own thing, and few have concrete goals that align with the other characters. The show WAS on a journey, but S4 stood almost completely still while everyone fumbled around in the aftermath of winning ONE battle against an enemy that mostly only appeared in the last few episodes of S3. I just don't know where they go from here, and I think S4 with its time jump is just starting a different, if tangential, story to the one we all actually showed up to see in the first place.
Avatar and Dragon Prince both are amazing show. Everyone views and loves these shows differently
When someone talks about things like these im always reminded of probably one of the very few useful lily orchard writing advice tips. Dont try to be the next avatar, not even the avatar writers can do it
When I heard it was goin to be a spiritual successor to to ATLA I was excited but when I first started watching it it reminded me more of Wakfu than ATLA immediately stopped comparing it to ATLA and thusly enjoyed more than everyone else seems to. I will admit tho the recent season felt short.
Haven't seen dragon prince, love atla, DIDNT KNOW I WAS HERE FOR THE MADE IN ABYSS SOUND TRACKS IN THE BACKGROUND. Great video 👍👍
For some reason I really like how you said that 11:09
great video. heres hoping that season 5 does better
Fingers crossed.
I hope that they’re writing with the full story in mind and that S4 was them getting the set-up out of the way, because the story has a lot more potential than it showed this season.
This Video made me realize, that the world of Xadia is perfect for a WoW/Baldurs Gate Type of RPG but not perfect for a TV Show..
Give each class another Kingdom / Realm of Elves and with that for each another start of the Game. Could even do a Pirate Class.
It could give the world the depth it deserved and gives every Player the time to really dive into it.
If you want to make it a trilogy and then have different Kingdoms and different Realms in each Part of it, that would be fine aswell. As long as the Regions would be filled with live.
I never realized they were connected until the fourth season
Love the show been here since season 1 and honestly the show was standing on its own with avatar for quite a bit s2 and s3 were as good if not better than s1 and s2 of avatar I think the problem came just after the "final battle" as now they had no reason for zaria to be its own thing and I belive they probably didn't have much of a choice due to netflix
I was thinking of watching this show but the only good thing I heard about it was that the writers from atla were working on it. I literally searched “the dragon prince” on yt and there’s a lot of criticism of this season. It’s a shame that the writers couldn’t successfully replicate their past achievement with atla
This show has a most wholesome bunch of characters. (I find the people in ATLA obnoxiously whiny actually, so no surprise that I prefer TDP.)
It takes its time with feelings and most things. It keeps the quirkiness grounded so it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief. Not much of "jump cut to absurd scene" comedy. There's more of punny humor which is successful at making me smile or laugh.
Season 4 is bad, but 1-3 was pretty good and so is 5. Apparently 6 gets pretty dark so that could go either way, but still
The other problem stems from a decision many newer shows are making these days:
Short seasons.
Each "season" is only 9 episodes. Why? What purpose does this serve?
Since they're choosing short seasons, why only 9 episodes? Other shows will go to 10-12 episodes. Why only 9?
They pack too much into to few episodes. I'd rather have more episodes to lay out more explanation and story, etc.
If I can "binge" an entire season in 2 1/2 hours, its not an actual season. I just watched a movie.
Aron needs to stop living in the past and let TDP be its own thing for godsakes. Im starting to see why Netflix is on the verge of taring apart his contact lately with Season 4s bad ratings decline.
between korra and the dragon prince i do sometimes question how the original ATLA managed to be so consistantly good and nuanced
Truly a lighting in a bottle. A one time miracle.
21:22 How I'm referring to Aaravos from now on lol
Bruh i love avatar universe and watched everything about it mutliple times but this is the first time i heard The Dragon Prince's relationship with Avatar i didnt even get a single reference when i watched Tdp (expect yip-yip scene lol that was hilarious)
Ikr the... "Fly! Go. Come ooooon they're getting away!!"
........ "Yip yip?- WOOAOAHH" i was howling
11:40 it’s called lore
Every franchise now has external lore
Even avatar
There's a difference between a main show having a complete narrative arc while having supplemental material vs expecting viewers to learn about reading a book to understand a series. Mandalorian season 3 has this problem
What I want to know is why all the characters have those lesbian haircuts? What was wrong with their old styles?
No the problem with the dragon prince is that NOTHING has happened in 2 season
I've been waiting for a video like this for a long time. so as I saw the first season, it was promising... but even then I had some problems with the series... the dragon prince is a series with a lot of potential... but it doesn't really use that potential for anything... a good fantasy world creates in the reader / in the viewer, I want to get there to see the world with my own eyes and have an adventure there etc ... but the dragon prince doesn't make me want to see that world with my own eyes ... and the map of the world of the dragon prince was disappointing to say the least from the first second I saw it, but I was willing to give a chance for the series... but I feel that both the story and the world are missing a common thread... the elves especially seem quite shallow and it feels as if there are no different cultures etc. in this world and what little we have seen of other cultures is like a shadow of Avatar's four nations.
i'm trying to give dragon prince a chance and i want to believe that it's a good series, but it's as hard as it seems that the creators of it also have no idea what the main point of dragon prince is... so the characters are good at it (most of the time) but as they say from fantasy, the fact that the characters are good is not enough, the world itself must also be like its own character. ("unique" in its own way) and maybe I'm annoyed by the dragon prince as well because knowing that some of the creators made Avatar so they can't do the same thing again is quite depressing or rather the fact that they can't do something new... I'm I'm planning my own fantasy world for my own book series, and if nothing else, the dragon prince is a good example of what happens when the world itself is not completely ready to support this kind of story. if your story revolves around traveling across countries and continents, it's good to make sure that the world is interesting to travel and sometimes to stop at interesting places and meet different creatures and cultures...
Great video!
This show made me realise that at 26, I completely fell out of touch with the shows that I used to like. I used to be a huge animation fan, but now most of what is being prodiced in the west feels like tasteless bs that can't decide if ot's for children or adults... and as a result, it's for neither. Growing up made me realise that "adult humor" is most used by cringy, angsty teens, and "adult" has a much deeper meaning compared to the shallow display of immaturity that usually is represented by "adult themes" in the morally-corrupt and decadent western world. It doesn't mean we can't appreciate jokes and have fun, but it does mean that looking at it makes you wonder how did the authors get stuck in their awkward teen phase for so long. I tried to watch the dragon prince, but it's just... not for me. I couldn't stand a whole season, so I dropped it midway out of boredom and awkwardness. I don't wanna say it's just "bad", because I clearly am not the target (Idk who is, but it sure as heck is not me) but I REALLY can't say it's good either. "Kid's entertainment" has actually way more value and can stand to the test of time way more than this time-bound bs. ATLA has such ways of storytelling that anyone can enjoy it. The same can't be said with any of it's authors attempts at making more "mature" content like TLOK or DP. They probably don't realise that all the limitations they had to endure while making content "for kids" are actually what helped them such a nuanced masterpiece, and now they are trying to recreate its success without those limitations, they are falling miles short of their objective.
Also, as a side not, I really dislike the animation. That part I can tell is garbage. I'm sure they had monetary reasons to make it look so bad and cheap, but I don't care. Part of what makes a show great is its art style, and DP has the worst one out there. The clunky movements and the badly rendered cell-shaded style make me wonder who in their right minds would look at it and say "yep, this is it! This is the product I'm gonna release for the public and pretend i'm proud of!" It has less charm that a piece of cardboard soaked in cereal-milk and left to dry out in the sun by mistake.
I didnt really find an issue in them breaking up in a comic, i clearly understood what was happening between them in the show, i mean they tell us rayula left for a couple years and thats why they arent as close
I forgot this show came the avatar creators honestly
I watched first 3 seasons of this show with my sisters and it was okay. Really. Just okay. I didn't and don't have anything else to say about it.
When we started watching the 4th season we stopped after few episodes. Some of the things that were said didn't go along with my religious beliefs but I don't blame the show for this, I am the one who picks what to watch. But also the show just became a mess and not the "interesting mess" like in Avatar the Last Airbender (me and my sisters LOVE this show and are currently rewatching it:)). This mess is just bunch of story lines, characters, ideas, stupid conflicts put in one gigantic pile and we as viewers have to just sit and see how this pile falls over!!! In ATLA it was a very interesting mess that characters gradually worked through. It was gradually building up. While in Dragon Prince it was just given to us in the first 30 minutes.
I enjoyed the animation and character design in Dragon Prince. Yeah. The story line(talking of the first three seasons) was okay?... Like I wouldn't say that it was very, very interesting but as something to watch one time it was good.
These are just my thoughts. If your's are different, it's okay.
Thanks you very much for the video, it was amazing. I really enjoyed watching it!
Hope you all have a great day❤
May I ask what the dragon prince said that was against your faith, just curious?
S5 is out and i dont care what you think is wrong with it i think its beautiful
I wish the character vs message driven story problem was confined to the Dragon Prince :(
These last two seasons have been disappointing, though season 5 was better than four. I just feel like the characters, especially Callum and Rayla, don't have the chemistry that made them likeable and compelling in the first place anymore? As well as the "humour" which made me actually have to pause and walk away from the show from how much it made me die inside, the weird preachy writing, and some scenes which were just so unintentionally awkward and poorly written, These new seasons really aren't hitting.
I watched the three seasons around two years ago and... God how I disliked it.
The story of the first two seasons was fine. It kind of worked although it wasn't the best either. But the animation looked so bad, the dialogue was sloppy and the world building wasn't as intriguing as I would have liked.
Then season three came. The season three story was supposed to be hype and get me excited. Nothing made sense though. The writing was inconsistent, the dialogue got from bad to horrible, there were way too many plotholes.
The worst thing is that I wanted to like it, but there was so much wasted potential. I don't think I want to watch the new season, I don't want to be disappointed anymore
I remember I watched all 3 seasons and enjoyed it, it got my worldbuilding juices going for my own story (even though in the back of my head something felt empty about DP’s world which you stated pretty well in that section). Then when season 4 came out I didn’t hear about it right away, but when I did I binged the entire season, and my reaction at the end was “…well that was ass.” A bit harsh I know, but I am never watching season 4 again, you can literally skip 50% of it if you only want the important bits, and 90% of it if you don’t care about the Sunfire elf plot like I did since it was so boring. Just from a basic memory search of that season, I can only remember the last episode in detail, I think I even skipped an episode or two, although I do remember dying inside at the ‘yip yip’ and ‘boomerang’ jokes.
As for the previous seasons now that I’m done with my season 4 tangent, I liked season 1 well enough (although I’m always a fan of the first episode/book of a large story to see where it began), season 2 bored me a bit, and season 3 was very interesting since it was just one giant climax, but there’s one big problem with season 3. Since the story up to that point was kind of clunky and the dark magic stakes were ill-defined, once season 3 was over, I had mentally checked out of the show and had no interest in binging it again since the ending was satisfying enough…despite the fact the story wasn’t done. If someone reads the first arc of your story and there’s no bait left to eat at the end so they just walk up and leave before it’s over, that will clothesline any interest in the next part of the story, by choice not to see it or just because you couldn’t be bothered to reserve time subconsciously and end up never touching it again after several moments of ‘I’ll watch it later’. Season 4 being as ehhhh and tedious as it was did not help.
I may be objectively/subjectively wrong in some places with my assessment and I’m not saying I disliked the show completely (aside from season 4), but it has definitely killed most of my interest at this point with how it handled its writing and worldbuilding.
Edit: Oh, and of course the worst thing they did was split up Raylum. All it could’ve offered was drama and it didn’t even do that, and they did it in a comic between seasons instead of the show itself. You had a ship that united an entire fan base and you soiled it for the sake of it. Ugh
Honestly the first 2 seasons were kind of mid tier and the 3rd was slightly better due to various pay offs in the mix.
But i couldnt even finish season 4. 2 episodes was all i could stomach. Everything was just so off