I used to think removing it didn’t matter. But really I would say this offers structure rigidity to the front of the car. The loss of strength isn’t worth the weight saved by this. Good video
Thanks for the reply and sharing your thoughts! I do think there is something to be said about if removing, then replacing with an aftermarket solution 🤔
@@c27maxima I been driving my Impreza with the frame rotted away for years no real problems but consider the crash safety is compromised due to the lack of support by the frame. Would recommend replacing for sake of safety but it’s surely up to your disxreation
Mine was cracked and when turning the wheel while stationary, in low-speed turns and over speed bumps it would make a loud clicking sound. Took ages to diagnosis as it sounded like it could have been multiple things like the tie ends, the calliper, the strut, the ball joints… (I even replaced the steering rack after the first misdiagnosis). The crack was only discovered on a drive-on hoist whilst under load (the crack would close with the wheels off the ground). The point is; it was clicking because the subframe was flexing at the crack. This means that the subframe is absorbing all kinds of lateral forces, all the time, even at low speed. It adds rigidity and handling to the front end. Take it off, I would not.
Seems like I have to check the sub frame, as well. Mine does similar noise and nothing is found to be wrong with the suspension, links etc. according to specialists. At least I give a try😅
I've got an 03 track car and I've removed it. The GC chassis didn't have it, and with sway bar, strut tower and cage the front end is super rigid anyway and I've only crashed it twice.
Awesome feedback mate. Yeah I was aware of even some GD models (different countries) didn’t come out with them as well interestly enough. Good to know yours has held up regardless!
That brace is steel and for force distribution in front end collisions. Not much for rigidity. I replaced mine with the Oswald Performance underbrace to save weight and increase rigidity...while acknowledging a small expense in affecting the car's original safety engineering. Personally, I wouldn't just remove it for safety's sake. Replacing it with a more rigid piece is within reason though.
@@jgmotorsports4384 For rigidity, only minor improvement but I already had some other bracings installed - probably much more noticeable coming from completely stock. What was really noticeable was the weight savings; steering was tighter, braking and acceleration felt more responsive. Big wins there.
Really like the Oswald design, but have heard so many horror stories regarding missed deadlines and broken promises after paying. I'd have no problem throwing down the $ if there was some kind of uniformity to the purchase of these. Admittedly, it's been a few years since I considered purchase and things might have improved since. If so, my apologies to the brand.
Wouldnt call it flimsy. Its light but plays important role in tying the front suspension together. Sure structurally it may not take any stresses but i would say having a light weight U shaped beam tying the key suspension and body together adds rigidity and longevity. GD chassis is known for being very rigid and the chassis is a whole system that supports itself. The bolt locations may not shift over time without the beam but I’d be willing to bet over a long time those suspension points could permanently be flexed out of wack
I think it's designed for many small random reasons. frankly subaru maybe have added this as jack points and/or damage prevention and/or stability. I noticed that without the under tray the window pushes the car around easily on the highway so small twicks like the subframe are deliberately designed for many random reasons
Mine was rotted through its definitely steel. unnecessary on a daily car like mine. I noticed no difference at all with it on and off, only took it off because of the hole in it and under braking it would move slightly creating an awful sound
I guess that’s the point of this video, seeing what the difference is, getting peoples thoughts etc. if it was damaged and you wanted a replacement I would be sourcing a replacement rather than looking at a repair for that price! 🍻
Let's think about it like this for a second, The number of companies that manufacture and sell those tower strut braces leads me to believe that there is something to that, that being chassis flex. Mounting antisway bars to your car then removing this subframe would counter those improvements to my way of thinking, you did say it bolts up to ten points.
Indeed it does bolt up to numerous spots mate. Some valid points there, I guess those are the arguments people are making. Thanks for your input! Appreciate it a lot!
At the end of the day it’s up to the individual, but personally I think it comes back to, WHY do you want to remove it? If it’s just because “everyone does it”, I would question the motivation and perhaps try and influence you to leave it, but if this is a dedicated track car we are talking about and you are trying to scrounge every last bit of weight to pull out of the car, perhaps it could be worth trialing it? I personally have removed it and will be running a series of tests to determine if it’s even worth doing or not (and what potential effects it can have on driveability). All the best 👊
@@jgmotorsports4384 yeah that's correct it's for safety in a head on (to a certain extent) It's U shaped with a gap towards the gearbox allowing the gearbox to drop down.
Common misconception is JDM models didn't come with them. Believe it was only the JDM Bug Eye Spec C possibly only the Type RA, can't remember exactly but pretty sure it was only specific Bug Eye models that didn't come with them. Some people believe because their car doesn't have it that it was like that from the factory.
I used to think removing it didn’t matter. But really I would say this offers structure rigidity to the front of the car. The loss of strength isn’t worth the weight saved by this.
Good video
Thanks for the reply and sharing your thoughts! I do think there is something to be said about if removing, then replacing with an aftermarket solution 🤔
Mine is rusted threw is it ok yet?
@@c27maxima I been driving my Impreza with the frame rotted away for years no real problems but consider the crash safety is compromised due to the lack of support by the frame. Would recommend replacing for sake of safety but it’s surely up to your disxreation
Mine was cracked and when turning the wheel while stationary, in low-speed turns and over speed bumps it would make a loud clicking sound. Took ages to diagnosis as it sounded like it could have been multiple things like the tie ends, the calliper, the strut, the ball joints… (I even replaced the steering rack after the first misdiagnosis). The crack was only discovered on a drive-on hoist whilst under load (the crack would close with the wheels off the ground). The point is; it was clicking because the subframe was flexing at the crack. This means that the subframe is absorbing all kinds of lateral forces, all the time, even at low speed. It adds rigidity and handling to the front end. Take it off, I would not.
Seems like I have to check the sub frame, as well. Mine does similar noise and nothing is found to be wrong with the suspension, links etc. according to specialists. At least I give a try😅
I've got an 03 track car and I've removed it. The GC chassis didn't have it, and with sway bar, strut tower and cage the front end is super rigid anyway and I've only crashed it twice.
Awesome feedback mate. Yeah I was aware of even some GD models (different countries) didn’t come out with them as well interestly enough.
Good to know yours has held up regardless!
That brace is steel and for force distribution in front end collisions. Not much for rigidity. I replaced mine with the Oswald Performance underbrace to save weight and increase rigidity...while acknowledging a small expense in affecting the car's original safety engineering.
Personally, I wouldn't just remove it for safety's sake. Replacing it with a more rigid piece is within reason though.
Good points mate, how did you find the difference after installing the Oswald performance under brace?
@@jgmotorsports4384 For rigidity, only minor improvement but I already had some other bracings installed - probably much more noticeable coming from completely stock.
What was really noticeable was the weight savings; steering was tighter, braking and acceleration felt more responsive. Big wins there.
Really like the Oswald design, but have heard so many horror stories regarding missed deadlines and broken promises after paying. I'd have no problem throwing down the $ if there was some kind of uniformity to the purchase of these. Admittedly, it's been a few years since I considered purchase and things might have improved since. If so, my apologies to the brand.
Mine has a lot of rust you think it would be a good idea to change it ?
Wouldnt call it flimsy. Its light but plays important role in tying the front suspension together. Sure structurally it may not take any stresses but i would say having a light weight U shaped beam tying the key suspension and body together adds rigidity and longevity. GD chassis is known for being very rigid and the chassis is a whole system that supports itself.
The bolt locations may not shift over time without the beam but I’d be willing to bet over a long time those suspension points could permanently be flexed out of wack
I think it's designed for many small random reasons.
frankly subaru maybe have added this as jack points and/or damage prevention and/or stability.
I noticed that without the under tray the window pushes the car around easily on the highway so small twicks like the subframe are deliberately designed for many random reasons
Mine was rotted through its definitely steel. unnecessary on a daily car like mine. I noticed no difference at all with it on and off, only took it off because of the hole in it and under braking it would move slightly creating an awful sound
My subframe just cracked in my 2002 Impreza. Should I replace it or should I ditch the car?
Mine is rotted through too. Did u remove it or ditch the car?
Someone ask me 7.5 k to restore the underbody to pristine condition as mine its rusty or diy the most of it and pay the garage to finish the job
I guess that’s the point of this video, seeing what the difference is, getting peoples thoughts etc.
if it was damaged and you wanted a replacement I would be sourcing a replacement rather than looking at a repair for that price! 🍻
Let's think about it like this for a second, The number of companies that manufacture and sell those tower strut braces leads me to believe that there is something to that, that being chassis flex. Mounting antisway bars to your car then removing this subframe would counter those improvements to my way of thinking, you did say it bolts up to ten points.
Indeed it does bolt up to numerous spots mate. Some valid points there, I guess those are the arguments people are making. Thanks for your input! Appreciate it a lot!
So what do you think do I really need it because I really don’t see the need for it
At the end of the day it’s up to the individual, but personally I think it comes back to, WHY do you want to remove it? If it’s just because “everyone does it”, I would question the motivation and perhaps try and influence you to leave it, but if this is a dedicated track car we are talking about and you are trying to scrounge every last bit of weight to pull out of the car, perhaps it could be worth trialing it?
I personally have removed it and will be running a series of tests to determine if it’s even worth doing or not (and what potential effects it can have on driveability).
All the best 👊
@@jgmotorsports4384 Have you tried it yet? When you do could you post a video with your findings?
It pulls . The engine and transmission downwards in a head on crash. I took mine off its junk.
Oh really? I haven’t heard of it doing such a thing. Was this for safety?
@@jgmotorsports4384 yeah that's correct it's for safety in a head on (to a certain extent)
It's U shaped with a gap towards the gearbox allowing the gearbox to drop down.
It definitely is steel, mine is almost completely rusted away on my 03 wagon. About to remove the three pieces left of it.
Pretty sure some STI models didn't come with them
My 06 STi definitely has it, so did my 03 wagon....
Common misconception is JDM models didn't come with them. Believe it was only the JDM Bug Eye Spec C possibly only the Type RA, can't remember exactly but pretty sure it was only specific Bug Eye models that didn't come with them. Some people believe because their car doesn't have it that it was like that from the factory.
Does nothing 😅