Hoppy Lager, Italian Pilsner, New Zealand Pilsner, IPL, West Coast Pilsner... all have been welcome additions to my fridge this past Southern Hemisphere summer.
I absolutely love the WC pilsner. I live in NZ, and the WC Pilsner (especially ones made with riwaka & riwaka clones) has been my beer of the summer. Light, crispy & hoppy as shit
So chuffed to see an incredibly passionate team and local business such as Wild Horse getting their name out there, as i honestly think they're doing some of the best beers at the moment. Great to be introduced to a new style (to me) as well as it's normally ignore a pilsner. Iechyd da 🍻
This might just be the beer style I was looking for! I already love Kellerbiers, drinkability and flavour at a at least kind of sensible ABV. Let's hope this catches on, because the availibility here is sadly limited.
Victory Prima Pilsner has been doing this and doing it well for a very long time. It has always been my favorite different kind of Pilsner, but I guess you would not call it a West Coast Pilsner, since it has long been brewed on the East Coast.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Very good point, but the flavor profile with a bit of hops, especially on the nose, has always reminded me of sort of a West Coast IPA, but at the same time obviously not.
Hoppy lagers were the favorite batches of beer I made in 2023. I made an Italian pils, New Zealand pils, and a cold ipa. All amazing crushable beers that packed in hop aroma amd flavor. I still get comments about the NZ pils over a year later. I def plan to make more in 2024.
I liked an I.P.L when I could find them as it seemed to be the perfect balance of easy drinking lager with a bigger hop finish. Will certainly give this style a try.
Ooh. I love this idea. I really like the piney floral citrus hop flavors in a WCIPA, but don't love the stickiness and higher ABV that they tend to feature. This seems like a perfect balance.
i just had one in Helsinki that was using NZ hops, but same concept. It was super crushable. I was at the airport and had 3 when i planned to have 1 ahaha. Think the brewery was called Rock Paper Scissors.
Otherworld brewing were knocking out a lovely Hoppy Lager a few months back which is well worth a try (as all their beers are) if there's any cans still around
I absolutely love the wild horse brewery a very underrated brewery the beers fantastic and their buckskin Lager that hit on the back of the throat fantastic 👌
Just throwing it out there, from what I've heard, Jack's Abby (Massachusetts) first released their Hoponious Union in 2012. It was listed on the can as a 'Hoppy Lager' up until recently when they changed can to say 'West Coast Style Hoppy Lager' - not sure if that's jumping on the growing popularity of the style or because it's New England and everyone automatically assumes anything hoppy from local to NE is a tropical hazy boi.
They did a "West Coast Pilsner" in their elements range previously that was even better IMO. Hope Tudno Pils becomes a regular thing. I do love how WH keep their range quite small rather than spamming a load of beers that are basically the same. I always get excited when they make a new batch of their export stout.
One of my favorite styles! I first brewed one a few years ago as a "Session Cold IPA" or maybe a "Cold Pale Ale", but I like the term "West Coast Pilsner" better than those or "Hoppy Lager" or "Dry Hopped Pilsner." Here in the US, IPA's on tap are usually 6.5% to 7.5% ABV, which is not where I want a "crushable" beer. Mine have been 100% Pilsner base, hopped at a "hoppy pale ale" rate with varieties like Centennial, Citra and Simcoe, fermented at 62F with W-34/70. The New Zealand Pilsner might fit somewhere in the lineage of this style as well, though I think NZ Pils are more hoppy now than they used to be.
I'm hoping Italian pilsner gets more popular, I've never had one, but it sounds like what I want. West Coast pilsner sounds interesting, I liked IPL and Cold IPA.
Baladin makes a quite tasty Italian pilsner. These two fine gents appreciation of the style made me try it, and along their Strong Ale, their Pilsner is very good.
Interesting discussion and I'm wondering where you place a NZ Pilsner? This is a style that regularly features on my brewlist. A happy accident is that I have had success using a californian common yeast and my 'NZ Steam Pilsner' is very popular with my brew buddies!! And yes please, time to get back into the brudio for some brewday footage!! Please!!🙏
To be honest, I don't see NZ Pils as a style. It certainly started simple as a switch out of Saaz/Hallertau for motueka and some other NZ hops, so wasn't necessarily dry hopped and definitely not to the tune that WC Pils are. I don't think an NZ Pils could ever be described as smelling like an IPA, so to me it's a sub-category of pilsner
Please do a brew day for this style. I've been wanting to brew one of these for months and can't find a recipe anywhere. Struggling to make my own as my hop knowledge is lacking.
Purity do some great hoppy lagers here in the UK. Their lawless lager is a great one. Doing their brewery tour in a few weeks so hope to sample some more. I want to try more of these types of lagers, something different and interesting.
@TheCraftBeerChannel I visited Purity today. They did talk about the investment which was nice to hear. It all seems very positive from their perspective and it made sense. They were in administration so it was investment or bust at the end of 2023. Their set up is really neat. Brewery on a small farm. They recycle water to combat the amount of water it takes to produce a pint and their beers are great. I really hope they continue to succeed. They are a local brewery to me and are doing a great job of it.
(Edit: great vid and love this series btw! I should’ve lead with that haha) Made a WHOLE PARAGRAPH COMMENT selling y’all on highland park and Timbo while still in the first few minutes of the video… lesson learned haha watch the damn video before assuming y’all don’t know about something.
I really do get the appeal of a West Coast Pilsners. I haven't tried a lot of them, but the ones I have had were pretty good. But I feel, similar to many of the styles mentioned, beers like this have been around for quite some time just without the label. When the craft beer wave hit Germany and there was a need for Pale Ales and IPAs a lot of breweries didn't tweak their trusted recipes too much and just switched the hops with some additional dryhopping. Especially the ones that were used to harvest their house lager yeast and didn't want to mess around with some single use US-05 dry yeast.
Quite possibly! But this is true of all beer styles - they are made by lots of different breweries and in many different ways before someone sees the pattern and gives them a name. It's true of all kinds of historic beers - Porter, IPA, mild, American pales....
It’s not just that ipa sales that keeps us here in America from using the “IPL” term. There is also an often made argument for not wanting to throw off customers with yet another style in a market that is extremely saturated with so many already. (I don’t agree necessarily but most Colorado breweries that brew big west coast IPAs/ pilsners run 3470 yeast.
"Like a stone that's a safe harbour in a raging river", have we been writting off Brad's hidden talent for banging philosophical one liners?! Has he considered writting beer haikus?
If I went to my local taproom and ordered a half of their german pilsner and half a west coast Ipa and mixed them together would that be west coast pils? Or would I be asked to leave?
Why is this not simply a 'Pale Ale'? Sounds not to dis-similar to some extra pale ales I have tried. I'll have to try one of those by Wild Horse to find out!
Because the yeast, malt, techniques and temps are all different to an American pale ale. As a result the flavour is very different - most notably lacking any kind of caramel malt depth
I mean I wouldn't necessarily call it a new style, but I think it is different enough to need to be distinguished from anything else out there so it goes beyond marketing.
Any thoughts on the next lager IPA creation - how about West Coast Rauchbier? Which brings me to a question: what do you think of smoke and hop combinations. What works, what doesn't? I've enjoyed smoked IPAs in the past but haven't seen any around for a while - guess I was in rather exclusive club. Perhaps don't add this style to your list of Beers Big In 2025 just yet...
For pretty much any new style or trend, it's something that's already been done in the homebrewing world. That said, it would be very nice if west coast pils gives NEIPA a bit of a shoe in the pants lol.
To be honest, it's NZ Pils that I don't see as a style. It certainly started simple as a switch out of Saaz/Hallertau for motueka and some other NZ hops, so wasn't necessarily dry hopped and definitely not to the tune that WC Pils are. I don't think an NZ Pils could ever be described as smelling like an IPA, so to me it's a sub-category of pilsner
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I've definitely had very highly dry hopped NZ Pils (outside of NZ), and some use US hops while some WC Pils use NZ hops, just seems like a bit of a grey area. Maybe there is a better name that can cover all "Hoppy Pale Lager"
I think we are going to see continued shrinking of the craft beer business. In the U.S., Craft sales are 0.1% of the market. Craft beer started as Pale ales and Ambers and now the best selling beers are light in color (albeit with a crap load of hops like NEIPA's). There is a reason Craft breweries are now producing lighter colored beers; it's because that is what the world drinks. I am going to try to find the details of TUDNO West Coast Lager and see if I can brew it. Thanks guys!
WHere is your figure from? According to the BA, craft sales are more like 20% by dollar value and have been growing, albeit it very slowly, in share. Volumes overall are struggling, however - which is where beers like this do come in, for sure.
@@NOFX_86 I dont know. I doubt it. I have only tried Kist beer (same ethnicity) in Georgia, made in the Tusheti. It was non alcoholic and more like gruit. It border chechnya. I know Ossetians and Tushebi have a beer culture. But they aren’t Muslim caucasians. If you want - check it out below - Kisturi Beer Brewery - ლუდსახარში ქისტური www.google.com/maps/place/Kisturi+Beer+Brewery+-+ლუდსახარში+ქისტური,+Akhmeta-Batsara,+Omalo/@42.6954255,45.7141606,7z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x4045a5689fcb731b:0x35c81937a81859ee!8m2!3d42.192528!4d45.319733!16s%2Fg%2F11nxqq37x3?hl=en-ge
The local macro breweries have been bringing out “ipa” for the last few years in Georgia 🇬🇪. Unfortunately, they all tasted like macro lager. Then one brought out a “neipa” that was a hazy lager with a tad more bitterness that has since been rebranded as NZ pils for this summer - I very much doubt theres any Nelson, Rakau, etc in it. Maybe a little cynical (its obviously selling well as theyve brought out another version too which is the point I suppose), but this style smells of macro trying to edge into the craft market.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel by now I think the majority of macro drinkers have made their mind up. Maybe its true for the UK. Im not there enough to see trends per se. Here I see the opposite trend. Then again, its one of the few places where the craft beer revolution is booming.
IPL, rebranding Debittered hops to "American Noble", Cold IPA, now West Coast Pilsner. Washington hop producers are desperate to get their products in a lager. Other than advanced hop products for macro they don't have the draw as a hop region for lagers.
lol Oregon is on the backside of its pils fad it's been working through for the past few years; not that I disfavor pils, quite the opposite, it's just crazy when everyone tries to make a better beer than the next brewpub and it's a *lot* of stuff to work through - once they run out of ideas they start mining historical versions to find something to differentiate without, you know, *not* being a pils, staying in the pils perception space. good problems I guess lol
Interesting to hear, and I'd love to see more interesting, nuanced and historic approaches to lager brewing in the UK! THere was a great pod by The Craft Beer & Brewing pod with Chris Lohring of Notch on this topic recently
@@TheCraftBeerChannel oh my back in the 90's and early 00's huge surges on historical or "lost" recipes...this page at Oregon State University has some blurbs and pointers to additional info - since links get scrubbed a lot of times, the title of the page is "Beer Research Guide: Styles/Recipes" and web searching that phrase, as is, will bring you to the page and I copied a text from the section (which I posted as plain text, there are links on the original page): RECIPES AND RECREATIONS The accessibility and availability of historic recipes varies. As the U.S. industry consolidated in the 1950s through 1980s, many records were lost, destroyed, or transferred to corporate archives. Advertisements in local papers often include descriptions of styles or characteristics of the beer, which can be helpful in thinking about what that beer was like. There is an abundance of books and websites with historic recipe recreations for commercial and home brewers. Here are a couple of posts by Boak and Bailey about styles. Further Reading #1: Understanding Lager Further Reading #2: Understanding IPA But you can get lost in internet searching and reviewing discussion boards, so here's a list of some sources to get you started. Alexander, John. 1986. Brewing lager. London: Argus Books. Buhner, Stephen Harrod. Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers : The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation. Boulder, Colo.: Siris Books, 1998. Hieronymus, Stan. 2005. Brew like a monk: Trappist, abbey, and strong Belgian ales and how to brew them. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Krennmair, Andreas. 2018. Historic German And Austrian Beers For The Home Brewer. 1st ed. Independently published. McGovern, Patrick E. 2018. Ancient brews: rediscovered and re-created. New York: W. W. Norton. Mosher, Randy, and Michael Jackson. 2004. Radical Brewing: recipes, tales, and world altering meditations in a glass. Noonan, Gregory J. 2003. New brewing lager beer: the most comprehensive book for home- and microbrewers. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Renfrow, Cindy. 2008. A sip through time: collection of old brewing recipes. Thomas, Keith, Kayleigh Ironside, Lisa Clark, and Lewis Bingle. 2021. "Preliminary microbiological and chemical analysis of two historical stock ales from Victorian and Edwardian brewing." Journal of the Institute of Brewing. Turczyn, Amahl. 1997. A year of beer: 260 seasonal homebrew recipes. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Wahl, Robert. American Handy-book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades. 1902. Find all the Style books published by Brewers Publications. There are also projects to recreate recipes in academic or cultural heritage settings. Lost Lagers Travis Rupp and Beer Archaeology Patrick McGovern "Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages."
@@TheCraftBeerChannel YT lost my response so I'll nutshell it - there were big surges in the 90's and 00's to find and recreate historical/lost beers here in Oregon. This page at Oregon State University has a bunch of pointers to more info; I'm providing page title and using it on web search will find the page (links don't survive well in YT comments) - search "Beer Research Guide: Styles/Recipes" and this page will appear (pasted in plain text, the site has links for everything, and there's a LOT more info/data there): RECIPES AND RECREATIONS The accessibility and availability of historic recipes varies. As the U.S. industry consolidated in the 1950s through 1980s, many records were lost, destroyed, or transferred to corporate archives. Advertisements in local papers often include descriptions of styles or characteristics of the beer, which can be helpful in thinking about what that beer was like. There is an abundance of books and websites with historic recipe recreations for commercial and home brewers. Here are a couple of posts by Boak and Bailey about styles. Further Reading #1: Understanding Lager Further Reading #2: Understanding IPA But you can get lost in internet searching and reviewing discussion boards, so here's a list of some sources to get you started. Alexander, John. 1986. Brewing lager. London: Argus Books. Buhner, Stephen Harrod. Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers : The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation. Boulder, Colo.: Siris Books, 1998. Hieronymus, Stan. 2005. Brew like a monk: Trappist, abbey, and strong Belgian ales and how to brew them. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Krennmair, Andreas. 2018. Historic German And Austrian Beers For The Home Brewer. 1st ed. Independently published. McGovern, Patrick E. 2018. Ancient brews: rediscovered and re-created. New York: W. W. Norton. Mosher, Randy, and Michael Jackson. 2004. Radical Brewing: recipes, tales, and world altering meditations in a glass. Noonan, Gregory J. 2003. New brewing lager beer: the most comprehensive book for home- and microbrewers. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Renfrow, Cindy. 2008. A sip through time: collection of old brewing recipes. Thomas, Keith, Kayleigh Ironside, Lisa Clark, and Lewis Bingle. 2021. "Preliminary microbiological and chemical analysis of two historical stock ales from Victorian and Edwardian brewing." Journal of the Institute of Brewing. Turczyn, Amahl. 1997. A year of beer: 260 seasonal homebrew recipes. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications. Wahl, Robert. American Handy-book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades. 1902. Find all the Style books published by Brewers Publications. There are also projects to recreate recipes in academic or cultural heritage settings. Lost Lagers Travis Rupp and Beer Archaeology Patrick McGovern "Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages."
Most great beers seem to have some story that made it unique (such as a mistake, regional water quality, working around regulations and even obstacles). But the story of West Coast Pilsner sounds very unique 😅 .... Mixing two beers to quickly produce something different...sounds a very lazy and irresponsible thing to do. Lucky it ended up being a successful one. Imagine what would have happened if the people got sick on that day due to some other reason such as a food allergy at the same festival 😅😅😅 the judge would have asked "who mixed the IPA with pilsners?"
If IPL had the hops we have in 2023/24, and the benefit of changed palates due to hazy IPA, it would have succeeded. There really was no difference in the styles. I just hate that it's called "Pilsner" because styles and language matter, and this is going to confuse people looking for actual pilsners. I'm already seeing it with breweries - you order what looks like a N German Pils and it's loaded with American hops. Just call it West Coast Hoppy Lager.
To me there is definitely a difference. IPL was attempting to be a crisp and clean IPA - these beers are nothing of the sort, save for the aroma. On the pilsner point, I totally understand your point of view but to me it's more misleading to just label everything that isn't Pilsner "lager". People already erroneously assume lager is a style, and I think it is more helpful to explain to drinkers the difference between something from the pilsner style, or the helles, or the marzen styles. So I think these terms should be used as much as possible... if they actually point to a difference in the beers.
I'm a California based craft beer drinker. I enjoy many beer styles including WCIPAs and German style lagers. There's no need to cross pollinate these two styles. There are a good number of California breweries producing traditional, tasty German lagers including Trumer, Moonlight, Russian River, Enegren and more.
I think you might be missing the point of these beers - it isn't to replace traditional pilsner. It is here to offer IPA drinkers a hoppy experience in a lighter, crisper beer. It is an addition, not a replacement.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I understand what is going on. I personally am not a fan. I'm certain you will agree that being a craft beer fan doesn't mean that we have to be a fan of all styles.
That origin story is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever heard. I’m only saying that obviously Highland’s claim to be the first ones to get somebody on the Internet the bite on that story. Are they claiming to have invented the style or the term WCPILS? I love how every generation wants to think they created history and all they’ve actually done is try to rewrite it!
The origins/histories of beer styles have forever been blurry, claimed by many different people, and disputed. Porter , IPA, mild, even Pilsner don't have nice simple stories. Clearly this style of beer has been made before and we even reference that in the video. But the concept, name, excitement and press coalesced around Timbo Pils. Digging into its true lineage would be an investigative episode itself with many different strands. We've done that with Porter and IPA...probs won't with this one!
This is a little cynical. It's an attempt by breweries to create the hoppy beer they know their customers love but with an ABV, price point and drinkability that means they can enjoy a few more when they are drinking. This is how all beer styles, stretching back hundreds of years, have been invented - through trying something new.
Home brew episode! Home brew episode!
"wowsers in my trousers" 🤣
I would love a home brew episode on this! Getting a tested recipe to brew myself would be great.
Literally added west coast Pilsner to my list of new styles to brew while watching this video!
It's like Urquell with hops, nice!
Hoppy Lager, Italian Pilsner, New Zealand Pilsner, IPL, West Coast Pilsner... all have been welcome additions to my fridge this past Southern Hemisphere summer.
I absolutely love the WC pilsner. I live in NZ, and the WC Pilsner (especially ones made with riwaka & riwaka clones) has been my beer of the summer. Light, crispy & hoppy as shit
So chuffed to see an incredibly passionate team and local business such as Wild Horse getting their name out there, as i honestly think they're doing some of the best beers at the moment. Great to be introduced to a new style (to me) as well as it's normally ignore a pilsner. Iechyd da 🍻
Timbo Pils is top tier. Drinking it at Highland Park is a bucket list experience in Craft Beer.
One day I hope!
Emphasizing THIS
This might just be the beer style I was looking for! I already love Kellerbiers, drinkability and flavour at a at least kind of sensible ABV. Let's hope this catches on, because the availibility here is sadly limited.
Victory Prima Pilsner has been doing this and doing it well for a very long time. It has always been my favorite different kind of Pilsner, but I guess you would not call it a West Coast Pilsner, since it has long been brewed on the East Coast.
But it is also made with all German and Czech hops, so not really a West Coast inspired beer.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Very good point, but the flavor profile with a bit of hops, especially on the nose, has always reminded me of sort of a West Coast IPA, but at the same time obviously not.
Hoppy lagers were the favorite batches of beer I made in 2023. I made an Italian pils, New Zealand pils, and a cold ipa. All amazing crushable beers that packed in hop aroma amd flavor. I still get comments about the NZ pils over a year later. I def plan to make more in 2024.
Great episode - would love to see you do some blending of beers. Get your fave WC-IPA and Lager and start with a 50/50!!
I got to Highland Park Brewery about once a month. I love their beer line up.
So glad to hear someone else mention my favorite beer descriptor, moreishness! I use that all the time!
I liked an I.P.L when I could find them as it seemed to be the perfect balance of easy drinking lager with a bigger hop finish. Will certainly give this style a try.
Love a Pilsner. Great episode lads.
Hooray! What even is, is back again!
I’ve just brewed a citra nova lager,lager and loving it. Another great episode cheers 👍🍻
Highland Park Timbo Pils is one of my 5 desert island beers. I hope you guys get the chance to try it!
Ooh. I love this idea. I really like the piney floral citrus hop flavors in a WCIPA, but don't love the stickiness and higher ABV that they tend to feature. This seems like a perfect balance.
The Left Handed Giant Brewpub West Coast pils is a thing of beauty
Couldn’t agree more. One of the best “summer” beers you can buy in the UK I reckon 🍻
i just had one in Helsinki that was using NZ hops, but same concept. It was super crushable. I was at the airport and had 3 when i planned to have 1 ahaha. Think the brewery was called Rock Paper Scissors.
It’s the return of the IPL…… in the words of Alan Partridge… “They’ve re-badged it you fool!”
Tudno is a 6th century saint that Llandudno where it was brewed was named after, translted to Parish of Tudno.
Homebrew episode indeed! Try it with nova lager, it works like a charm ;)
I’m watching with a west coast style Pilsner from magnanimous brewing out of Tampa Florida called “no nothings” with Nelson hops, 5% abv
Otherworld brewing were knocking out a lovely Hoppy Lager a few months back which is well worth a try (as all their beers are) if there's any cans still around
I absolutely love the wild horse brewery a very underrated brewery the beers fantastic and their buckskin Lager that hit on the back of the throat fantastic 👌
Haha, 'wowsers in my...'. 🤣Johnny's face. Maybe something to put on a t-shirt.
Or indeed some trousers!
yes!!! @@TheCraftBeerChannel
10:08 what brewery? I can't make it out.
Highland Park
I recently heard of white stouts would be very interested in a video on these.
Haha me too... Still not sure I understand what they are or why they are...
Just throwing it out there, from what I've heard, Jack's Abby (Massachusetts) first released their Hoponious Union in 2012.
It was listed on the can as a 'Hoppy Lager' up until recently when they changed can to say 'West Coast Style Hoppy Lager' - not sure if that's jumping on the growing popularity of the style or because it's New England and everyone automatically assumes anything hoppy from local to NE is a tropical hazy boi.
I think it's probably to associate with the style, though with that ABV it's more an IPL!
Williams Brothers, Caesar Augustus, lager IPA hybrid from Scotland, it's been out for around 20 years now.
Indeed! Great beer. Great reminder.
Bring on the home brew ep!! He says as he searches the Brewfather cloud. I'm with you Johnny, hoppy and Lager.. Match made in heaven.
Maybe one day. We're actually soon about to attempt another style mentioned in this video....
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Italian Pilsner, bring it on!
They did a "West Coast Pilsner" in their elements range previously that was even better IMO. Hope Tudno Pils becomes a regular thing. I do love how WH keep their range quite small rather than spamming a load of beers that are basically the same. I always get excited when they make a new batch of their export stout.
One of my favorite styles! I first brewed one a few years ago as a "Session Cold IPA" or maybe a "Cold Pale Ale", but I like the term "West Coast Pilsner" better than those or "Hoppy Lager" or "Dry Hopped Pilsner." Here in the US, IPA's on tap are usually 6.5% to 7.5% ABV, which is not where I want a "crushable" beer. Mine have been 100% Pilsner base, hopped at a "hoppy pale ale" rate with varieties like Centennial, Citra and Simcoe, fermented at 62F with W-34/70. The New Zealand Pilsner might fit somewhere in the lineage of this style as well, though I think NZ Pils are more hoppy now than they used to be.
I'm hoping Italian pilsner gets more popular, I've never had one, but it sounds like what I want.
West Coast pilsner sounds interesting, I liked IPL and Cold IPA.
Baladin makes a quite tasty Italian pilsner. These two fine gents appreciation of the style made me try it, and along their Strong Ale, their Pilsner is very good.
Try Cuttin’ Grass by Duration 👍🏻
Interesting discussion and I'm wondering where you place a NZ Pilsner? This is a style that regularly features on my brewlist. A happy accident is that I have had success using a californian common yeast and my 'NZ Steam Pilsner' is very popular with my brew buddies!! And yes please, time to get back into the brudio for some brewday footage!! Please!!🙏
To be honest, I don't see NZ Pils as a style. It certainly started simple as a switch out of Saaz/Hallertau for motueka and some other NZ hops, so wasn't necessarily dry hopped and definitely not to the tune that WC Pils are. I don't think an NZ Pils could ever be described as smelling like an IPA, so to me it's a sub-category of pilsner
@@TheCraftBeerChannel ok fair enough. Now I need to go and find me a WC Pils to try!!😋
Please do a brew day for this style. I've been wanting to brew one of these for months and can't find a recipe anywhere. Struggling to make my own as my hop knowledge is lacking.
Fairly certain we will at some point soon!
Purity do some great hoppy lagers here in the UK. Their lawless lager is a great one. Doing their brewery tour in a few weeks so hope to sample some more. I want to try more of these types of lagers, something different and interesting.
Let us know how things look and how the beers are! They were bought out by a less than reputable company recently so I hope they are doing OK.
@TheCraftBeerChannel I visited Purity today. They did talk about the investment which was nice to hear. It all seems very positive from their perspective and it made sense. They were in administration so it was investment or bust at the end of 2023. Their set up is really neat. Brewery on a small farm. They recycle water to combat the amount of water it takes to produce a pint and their beers are great. I really hope they continue to succeed. They are a local brewery to me and are doing a great job of it.
Jacks Abby Hopinius Union has been crushing it for years and have witnessed first hand, Europeans - especially Brits - chugging these down in NYC.
Not come across it, sounds delicious but looks like an IPL to me! Big ABV, IPA levels of bitterness, even won some awards in IPA categories!
(Edit: great vid and love this series btw! I should’ve lead with that haha)
Made a WHOLE PARAGRAPH COMMENT selling y’all on highland park and Timbo while still in the first few minutes of the video… lesson learned haha watch the damn video before assuming y’all don’t know about something.
They should have called it a North Wales coast hoppy lager
Can you make a video about amber ales and red ales or separate videos someday??
I really do get the appeal of a West Coast Pilsners. I haven't tried a lot of them, but the ones I have had were pretty good. But I feel, similar to many of the styles mentioned, beers like this have been around for quite some time just without the label. When the craft beer wave hit Germany and there was a need for Pale Ales and IPAs a lot of breweries didn't tweak their trusted recipes too much and just switched the hops with some additional dryhopping. Especially the ones that were used to harvest their house lager yeast and didn't want to mess around with some single use US-05 dry yeast.
Quite possibly! But this is true of all beer styles - they are made by lots of different breweries and in many different ways before someone sees the pattern and gives them a name. It's true of all kinds of historic beers - Porter, IPA, mild, American pales....
Have you tried Waldhaus in the green variant? Because that's a Pils with a strong hop flavour, just the classical German one instead of an US variant.
I haven't but will seek it out!
It’s not just that ipa sales that keeps us here in America from using the “IPL” term. There is also an often made argument for not wanting to throw off customers with yet another style in a market that is extremely saturated with so many already. (I don’t agree necessarily but most Colorado breweries that brew big west coast IPAs/ pilsners run 3470 yeast.
I love Rothaus pils!
Where was this filmed? Looks ace!
The Beer Merchants Tap in Hackney Wick
Where is this filmed? looks like a beautiful spot
The Beer Merchants Tap in Hackney Wick. Best beer bar in London, and only partly because Jonny helped open it.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel wow great stuff - will pop down next time I’m down south 👍
I've always considered the West Coast Pils as an American Pale Ale alternative that's more tapped into the modern palate
Certainly a close comparison but the malt character, bitterness and finish are very different.
"Like a stone that's a safe harbour in a raging river", have we been writting off Brad's hidden talent for banging philosophical one liners?! Has he considered writting beer haikus?
If I went to my local taproom and ordered a half of their german pilsner and half a west coast Ipa and mixed them together would that be west coast pils? Or would I be asked to leave?
Haha I hope no one would ask you to leave - but I would say you probably want more like 2:1 ration of Pils to WCIPA
Hi guys great video and as always very detailed and informative, where did you film it ?👍🍺
The Beer Merchants Tap in Hackney Wick
@@TheCraftBeerChannel looks a great bar
Though I will say my Parmesan garlic pretzel sticks do go well with this beer
Why is this not simply a 'Pale Ale'? Sounds not to dis-similar to some extra pale ales I have tried. I'll have to try one of those by Wild Horse to find out!
Because the yeast, malt, techniques and temps are all different to an American pale ale. As a result the flavour is very different - most notably lacking any kind of caramel malt depth
@@TheCraftBeerChannel thanks for clarifying. I'll have to brew one now as I'm intrigued!
Brilliant video gents as usual. Could this also be someone creating a name of a style to help them stand out from the crowd rather than a new style...
I mean I wouldn't necessarily call it a new style, but I think it is different enough to need to be distinguished from anything else out there so it goes beyond marketing.
I just had a west coast pils from a local brewery near me and I have to say it was amazing.
Any thoughts on the next lager IPA creation - how about West Coast Rauchbier? Which brings me to a question: what do you think of smoke and hop combinations. What works, what doesn't? I've enjoyed smoked IPAs in the past but haven't seen any around for a while - guess I was in rather exclusive club. Perhaps don't add this style to your list of Beers Big In 2025 just yet...
Tudno comes from St Tudno (and his church) which is in LLandudno and where the name comes from with a mutation to dudno.
We’ve gone from one monoculture of fizzy yellow light lager to monoculture of everything’s an IPA.. even the Pilsner! 🤬🤯
Ha I see the concern but honestly, there hasn't been a more diverse brewing scene since the mid 1800s. You just gotta look past the hashtags and hype.
Hackney wick 😍
Becoming a common style out here in the Pacific Northwest of United States. I am really digging these.
For pretty much any new style or trend, it's something that's already been done in the homebrewing world. That said, it would be very nice if west coast pils gives NEIPA a bit of a shoe in the pants lol.
How different is a WC Pils to a NZ Pils? If it's just US hops vs NZ-style hops then it seems unnecessary for it to be a whole new style.
To be honest, it's NZ Pils that I don't see as a style. It certainly started simple as a switch out of Saaz/Hallertau for motueka and some other NZ hops, so wasn't necessarily dry hopped and definitely not to the tune that WC Pils are. I don't think an NZ Pils could ever be described as smelling like an IPA, so to me it's a sub-category of pilsner
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I've definitely had very highly dry hopped NZ Pils (outside of NZ), and some use US hops while some WC Pils use NZ hops, just seems like a bit of a grey area. Maybe there is a better name that can cover all "Hoppy Pale Lager"
Sounds like the perfect gateway for that friend who refuses to drink IPA because they think it’s a hipster thing.
IPL should be more relevant the more brewers use b-Lyase. Sulphur helps thiols to not degrade that quickly
I think we are going to see continued shrinking of the craft beer business. In the U.S., Craft sales are 0.1% of the market. Craft beer started as Pale ales and Ambers and now the best selling beers are light in color (albeit with a crap load of hops like NEIPA's). There is a reason Craft breweries are now producing lighter colored beers; it's because that is what the world drinks. I am going to try to find the details of TUDNO West Coast Lager and see if I can brew it. Thanks guys!
WHere is your figure from? According to the BA, craft sales are more like 20% by dollar value and have been growing, albeit it very slowly, in share. Volumes overall are struggling, however - which is where beers like this do come in, for sure.
West coast pilsner is the best thing ever....
Just brewed an Amarillo Pilsner for a friend’s crawfish boil.
Sounds like a great match!
Brad likes pilsners from Chechnya?
Czechia he said, you know, used to be the Czech Republic?
Fun fact: They do selling beer in Chechnya, but only in certain hotels to tourists only (and to Kaderovites secretly ).
В Чечне вкусный пилзнер?))
@@NOFX_86 I dont know. I doubt it. I have only tried Kist beer (same ethnicity) in Georgia, made in the Tusheti. It was non alcoholic and more like gruit. It border chechnya. I know Ossetians and Tushebi have a beer culture. But they aren’t Muslim caucasians.
If you want - check it out below -
Kisturi Beer Brewery - ლუდსახარში ქისტური www.google.com/maps/place/Kisturi+Beer+Brewery+-+ლუდსახარში+ქისტური,+Akhmeta-Batsara,+Omalo/@42.6954255,45.7141606,7z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x4045a5689fcb731b:0x35c81937a81859ee!8m2!3d42.192528!4d45.319733!16s%2Fg%2F11nxqq37x3?hl=en-ge
The local macro breweries have been bringing out “ipa” for the last few years in Georgia 🇬🇪. Unfortunately, they all tasted like macro lager. Then one brought out a “neipa” that was a hazy lager with a tad more bitterness that has since been rebranded as NZ pils for this summer - I very much doubt theres any Nelson, Rakau, etc in it.
Maybe a little cynical (its obviously selling well as theyve brought out another version too which is the point I suppose), but this style smells of macro trying to edge into the craft market.
I think it is kind of the opposite - craft brewers trying to sell to macro drinkers!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel by now I think the majority of macro drinkers have made their mind up. Maybe its true for the UK. Im not there enough to see trends per se. Here I see the opposite trend. Then again, its one of the few places where the craft beer revolution is booming.
I suspect I drank a West Coast Pilsner without knowing it.
IPL, rebranding Debittered hops to "American Noble", Cold IPA, now West Coast Pilsner. Washington hop producers are desperate to get their products in a lager. Other than advanced hop products for macro they don't have the draw as a hop region for lagers.
lol Oregon is on the backside of its pils fad it's been working through for the past few years; not that I disfavor pils, quite the opposite, it's just crazy when everyone tries to make a better beer than the next brewpub and it's a *lot* of stuff to work through - once they run out of ideas they start mining historical versions to find something to differentiate without, you know, *not* being a pils, staying in the pils perception space.
good problems I guess lol
Interesting to hear, and I'd love to see more interesting, nuanced and historic approaches to lager brewing in the UK! THere was a great pod by The Craft Beer & Brewing pod with Chris Lohring of Notch on this topic recently
@@TheCraftBeerChannel oh my back in the 90's and early 00's huge surges on historical or "lost" recipes...this page at Oregon State University has some blurbs and pointers to additional info - since links get scrubbed a lot of times, the title of the page is "Beer Research Guide: Styles/Recipes" and web searching that phrase, as is, will bring you to the page and I copied a text from the section (which I posted as plain text, there are links on the original page):
RECIPES AND RECREATIONS
The accessibility and availability of historic recipes varies. As the U.S. industry consolidated in the 1950s through 1980s, many records were lost, destroyed, or transferred to corporate archives. Advertisements in local papers often include descriptions of styles or characteristics of the beer, which can be helpful in thinking about what that beer was like.
There is an abundance of books and websites with historic recipe recreations for commercial and home brewers. Here are a couple of posts by Boak and Bailey about styles.
Further Reading #1: Understanding Lager
Further Reading #2: Understanding IPA
But you can get lost in internet searching and reviewing discussion boards, so here's a list of some sources to get you started.
Alexander, John. 1986. Brewing lager. London: Argus Books.
Buhner, Stephen Harrod. Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers : The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation. Boulder, Colo.: Siris Books, 1998.
Hieronymus, Stan. 2005. Brew like a monk: Trappist, abbey, and strong Belgian ales and how to brew them. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Krennmair, Andreas. 2018. Historic German And Austrian Beers For The Home Brewer. 1st ed. Independently published.
McGovern, Patrick E. 2018. Ancient brews: rediscovered and re-created. New York: W. W. Norton.
Mosher, Randy, and Michael Jackson. 2004. Radical Brewing: recipes, tales, and world altering meditations in a glass.
Noonan, Gregory J. 2003. New brewing lager beer: the most comprehensive book for home- and microbrewers. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Renfrow, Cindy. 2008. A sip through time: collection of old brewing recipes.
Thomas, Keith, Kayleigh Ironside, Lisa Clark, and Lewis Bingle. 2021. "Preliminary microbiological and chemical analysis of two historical stock ales from Victorian and Edwardian brewing." Journal of the Institute of Brewing.
Turczyn, Amahl. 1997. A year of beer: 260 seasonal homebrew recipes. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Wahl, Robert. American Handy-book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades. 1902.
Find all the Style books published by Brewers Publications.
There are also projects to recreate recipes in academic or cultural heritage settings.
Lost Lagers
Travis Rupp and Beer Archaeology
Patrick McGovern "Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages."
@@TheCraftBeerChannel YT lost my response so I'll nutshell it - there were big surges in the 90's and 00's to find and recreate historical/lost beers here in Oregon. This page at Oregon State University has a bunch of pointers to more info; I'm providing page title and using it on web search will find the page (links don't survive well in YT comments) - search "Beer Research Guide: Styles/Recipes" and this page will appear (pasted in plain text, the site has links for everything, and there's a LOT more info/data there):
RECIPES AND RECREATIONS
The accessibility and availability of historic recipes varies. As the U.S. industry consolidated in the 1950s through 1980s, many records were lost, destroyed, or transferred to corporate archives. Advertisements in local papers often include descriptions of styles or characteristics of the beer, which can be helpful in thinking about what that beer was like.
There is an abundance of books and websites with historic recipe recreations for commercial and home brewers. Here are a couple of posts by Boak and Bailey about styles.
Further Reading #1: Understanding Lager
Further Reading #2: Understanding IPA
But you can get lost in internet searching and reviewing discussion boards, so here's a list of some sources to get you started.
Alexander, John. 1986. Brewing lager. London: Argus Books.
Buhner, Stephen Harrod. Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers : The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation. Boulder, Colo.: Siris Books, 1998.
Hieronymus, Stan. 2005. Brew like a monk: Trappist, abbey, and strong Belgian ales and how to brew them. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Krennmair, Andreas. 2018. Historic German And Austrian Beers For The Home Brewer. 1st ed. Independently published.
McGovern, Patrick E. 2018. Ancient brews: rediscovered and re-created. New York: W. W. Norton.
Mosher, Randy, and Michael Jackson. 2004. Radical Brewing: recipes, tales, and world altering meditations in a glass.
Noonan, Gregory J. 2003. New brewing lager beer: the most comprehensive book for home- and microbrewers. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Renfrow, Cindy. 2008. A sip through time: collection of old brewing recipes.
Thomas, Keith, Kayleigh Ironside, Lisa Clark, and Lewis Bingle. 2021. "Preliminary microbiological and chemical analysis of two historical stock ales from Victorian and Edwardian brewing." Journal of the Institute of Brewing.
Turczyn, Amahl. 1997. A year of beer: 260 seasonal homebrew recipes. Boulder, Colo: Brewers Publications.
Wahl, Robert. American Handy-book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades. 1902.
Find all the Style books published by Brewers Publications.
There are also projects to recreate recipes in academic or cultural heritage settings.
Lost Lagers
Travis Rupp and Beer Archaeology
Patrick McGovern "Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages."
Most great beers seem to have some story that made it unique (such as a mistake, regional water quality, working around regulations and even obstacles). But the story of West Coast Pilsner sounds very unique 😅 .... Mixing two beers to quickly produce something different...sounds a very lazy and irresponsible thing to do. Lucky it ended up being a successful one. Imagine what would have happened if the people got sick on that day due to some other reason such as a food allergy at the same festival 😅😅😅 the judge would have asked "who mixed the IPA with pilsners?"
If IPL had the hops we have in 2023/24, and the benefit of changed palates due to hazy IPA, it would have succeeded. There really was no difference in the styles. I just hate that it's called "Pilsner" because styles and language matter, and this is going to confuse people looking for actual pilsners. I'm already seeing it with breweries - you order what looks like a N German Pils and it's loaded with American hops. Just call it West Coast Hoppy Lager.
To me there is definitely a difference. IPL was attempting to be a crisp and clean IPA - these beers are nothing of the sort, save for the aroma. On the pilsner point, I totally understand your point of view but to me it's more misleading to just label everything that isn't Pilsner "lager". People already erroneously assume lager is a style, and I think it is more helpful to explain to drinkers the difference between something from the pilsner style, or the helles, or the marzen styles. So I think these terms should be used as much as possible... if they actually point to a difference in the beers.
Come on then... Knock out a homebrew recipe guys!
I'm a California based craft beer drinker. I enjoy many beer styles including WCIPAs and German style lagers. There's no need to cross pollinate these two styles. There are a good number of California breweries producing traditional, tasty German lagers including Trumer, Moonlight, Russian River, Enegren and more.
I think you might be missing the point of these beers - it isn't to replace traditional pilsner. It is here to offer IPA drinkers a hoppy experience in a lighter, crisper beer. It is an addition, not a replacement.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I understand what is going on. I personally am not a fan. I'm certain you will agree that being a craft beer fan doesn't mean that we have to be a fan of all styles.
Must say I’m not a big fan of these Nelson hops
That origin story is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever heard. I’m only saying that obviously Highland’s claim to be the first ones to get somebody on the Internet the bite on that story. Are they claiming to have invented the style or the term WCPILS? I love how every generation wants to think they created history and all they’ve actually done is try to rewrite it!
The origins/histories of beer styles have forever been blurry, claimed by many different people, and disputed. Porter , IPA, mild, even Pilsner don't have nice simple stories. Clearly this style of beer has been made before and we even reference that in the video. But the concept, name, excitement and press coalesced around Timbo Pils. Digging into its true lineage would be an investigative episode itself with many different strands. We've done that with Porter and IPA...probs won't with this one!
Just another fad to create excitement. Thats what craft beer is right?
This is a little cynical. It's an attempt by breweries to create the hoppy beer they know their customers love but with an ABV, price point and drinkability that means they can enjoy a few more when they are drinking. This is how all beer styles, stretching back hundreds of years, have been invented - through trying something new.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel yeah only messing. Good answer/comeback.