That's been my experience too, I've had 5 lessons in a helicopter and the instructor has checked the fuel before ever start up. As a car mechanic if I suspect water in a fuel tank I had a small quantity of methylated spirits which allows the water the mix with the fuel and then be flushed through the system without causing too many issues, do aircraft people use the same method for dealing with water in fuel?
Presence of particulates, correct grade of fuel (by color) and presence of water. That's what i was trained to look for. Maybe you need to ask for your money back.
@@darylwalford8697 pretty sure that's a no for aircraft. I guess you would continue to take samples from the tank sample valve, as Juan did near the start of the video until no water was in the sample. I guess if you found significant water you would want to find where it came from. (Blocked drain tube in the fuel filler cap recess, damaged/missing filler cap rubber washer or from the last fuel fill up).
I cannot believe that of all the students I've taught, I never thought to just pour some water out of a water bottle into a fuel strainer after taking a sample. That positive visual... here, THIS is what you're looking for, THIS is what you don't want to see... what a valuable teaching aid! I fly with a student on Sunday and even though he's far enough along to be just about ready for his PPL check ride, you can bet I'm taking a minute for that demonstration. Wow, WOW, I am humbled. Thank you so much, Juan!
I used to take a few water drops from the trailing edge to make sure - my instructor almost got a heart attack when I showed her the glass with water. She didn't relax till I told what I had done and why - you can't see if it is a glass of fuel or a glass of water.
Very few instructors do that. But last year, our maintenance chief showed it to a couple of interested renting people, and "what the heck am I looking at? I never thought I was to look for THIS" was written all over our faces!
The DPE I had on my private check ride did that to me while I was doing my preflight, it’s one thing to hear about, but to actually see is a very good example that you won’t forget
In 1992 I was flying pipeline patrol in a Cessna 182 RG for a large pipeline company. I had stopped in Greensboro North Carolina overnight and left the airplane out as there was no room in the hangar. There was a very heavy rain storm that night probably three or 4 inches. Before my flight that next day I started sumping the tanks. This particular year model of Cessna had recessed fuel caps in the top of the wing. To my surprise, it took almost an hour to empty the water out those fuel tanks that day. I had a mechanic come out and verify that I had cleared out all the water. I ran the airplane for a while on the ground to make sure all fuel was out of the lines. I was almost 2 hours late to get to work on the pipeline. but it saved my life that day. My company replaced those recessed fuel tanks within two weeks. All the other patrol planes were changed as well. You just can’t take that kind of thing for granted.
@jamesmcquire5312. Ah yes the dreaded Cessna killer caps!! Those caps were responsible for a lot of deaths. All have been replaced with Service Kits supplied by Cessna.
We had three Cessna 182s that we used for pipeline patrol. All of them had that fuel cap. Especially when you’re flying 200 to 500 feet above the ground all day long. You don’t have a lot of options if the engine fails.
Pipeline companies making money hand over fist yet not paying for a helicopter? Sounds about right. What could a Cessna 182 possibly have to offer insofar as pipeline inspection, versus a helicopter? Nothing.
I used to work the night shift for a company that had a fleet of piston twins that flew canceled checks for the Federal Reserve. We had our own fuel truck that would fuel up the aircraft during the day that would be dispatched that night. One night a pilot came into the hangar to report that he was having trouble sumping the fuel tank because it kept showing water. I and another mechanic went out to investigate. Sure enough we kept getting water out of the tanks. The fuel caps were good and it hadn't rained. We finally started siphoning right out of the tanks themselves and they were mostly water! We started to panic and stopped all other of our planes from taking off not knowing if some of them were contaminated as well. Come to find out the fuel truck had not been properly checked , there was a large amount of water in the fuel truck and it was a close call that night that no one was killed.
In other words, it doesn't have to be Rebuild Rescue (as a team or program) at fault, but it could be the airport's fuel truck? That said, I don't get why Sam would not check his fuel quality? It just doesn't seem like something he would miss, but I guess he did as sadly the events that followed are irreversible. In the end, the pilot is always the final person who has to check the airplane and is fully responsible for the state of it. It is a very sad loss because as far as I saw the man had a heart of gold.
@@LogiForce86 The fuel truck could have been contaminated. Or not. Either way it doesn't matter. It's just simple laziness and sloppiness that turned a rare Cougar into Coke cans and that careless, rusty pilot into worm food. I have zero sympathy nor tolerance for this garbage. Water can enter every day via condensation. In fact, there is water in your car's fuel tank right now. You're oblivious to this fact, and fat dumb & happy that your car will still start and run. This threat is mitigated by the fact that your car stays on the ground, and most people keep their fuel tank near full (which wards off room for condensation). You cannot get away with this ignorance and inattention in aviation. You must have a mitigation plan for expected and unexpected threats. Water can enter via rainfall or leaky fuel caps. Condensation. Just assume it's there, and sump for it to check. It's typical human desire to push the blame off on someone else like the FBO/fuel truck/line boy. However, it's just as likely there was water in the tanks the entire week before the flight while they were busy cranking out (pencil whipping?) all the maintenance work. The investigators found water in the fuel supply and that is damning. Proper fuel sumping and interior/exterior inspections are important. But proper procedures are boring, and don't generate clicks and ad views. Nail-biter, big-money deadlines, and blonde haired social influencers with low-cut tube tops draw attention. But they are in way over their heads. These influencers should stay home to do their make-up and fashion show. Not fly cross country in a high-performance airplane with avionics they don't understand. Stay in a Cessna 172. Stop crashing all the Bonanzas, I'd like to buy one before they're all wrecked. Thanks.
@@LogiForce86 "but it could be the airport's fuel truck" It's possible, but the report stated the right-wing fuel cap was missing its gasket. It's more likely that was the source of the water and debris intrusion.
@deathk26 Likely a contributing factor but not the main culprit, I think. Because they would have had issues 1 month ago if so, when they flew it, cross country, to the "rescue hangar" as they call it. Which was preceded by a test flight by a certified test pilot and twin engine flight instructor. Which accompanied Jason on his flight home to get his twin engine flight hours in towards becoming a twin engine pilot. Once home, they parked inside, as far as I know. At this point, it is highly unlikely to accumulate enough water into the tank to cause catastrophe. Unless the roof was leaking straight onto the tank cap.
Thanks for the good reporting Juan. Having done rescues and rebuilds for many years, I can attest that it often takes months and the thousands of dollars to get such an old and neglected aircraft not just airworthy, but safe and reliable, and during that time you are a test pilot. Water contamination was a major issue on several used aircraft we purchased, worst was a Cessna 206 on amphibious floats I bought from a guy who had bought it cheap in Alaska and had to dead stick it here in Oregon. We found a lot of water in the strainer water in the bladder wing tanks, after flushing the tanks and cleaning the strainer and running smooth I deemed it ok for a test flight around the patch, but on downwind fuel flow/pressure started fluctuating, the engine ran rough and quit on short final, and I just managed to dead stick it. Again we found the strainer full of water and again drained the wing tanks flushed the system with alcohol/methanol mix and after about 10mins of circling over the airport at 3500ft, the engine again rand rough and and quit. I was able to keep it running for a bit with Hi-Boost on the fuel pump by forcing fuel past the water in the fuel strainer but at about 1500ft the engine quit completely, and again I dead sicked it in. My AI found the strainer again full of water and my use of the fuel boost also filled the fuel spider, engine pump screen and injector lines with water as well as drowned the plugs with water. The AI and two A&P's again flushed the wing tanks and cleaned the fuel system and my AI was so confident that couldn't be any water in the system volunteered to ride right seat. We Circled over the airport, this time at 5,500ft and after another 15 mins I got my third practice doing a 206 floatplane dead stick on land. Again, we found the strainer and plugs drowned with water. Just then the late, great Cessna factory mechanic and test pilot (Harold Hayes some of you may recall) walked-up, I told him the story, and Harold asked: "did you drain the belly header tanks?" The trio of mechanics looked puzzled and my AI said: "there ain't no belly drains Harold!" Harold looked under the wing struts and said: "Well that's one that left the factory without the holes for the drains" Harold removed the pilot's seat pulled the carpets and an inspection plate, and with his inspection mirror said: "Well there's your problem, it has no drains, cuz this one didn't put the drain holes in the belly skin". We hole-sawed a pair of access holes, cut the safety wire on the header tank sump drains, and drained out about 5gals of water. Harold said that a few 206's with the float kit left the factory without the drain holes in the belly and an AD or SB was never issued. For those flying 206s, 207s and 210s, it's important to check the header tanks as well as part of every pre-flight. WATER COUNTER-MEASURE FOR 206/210s: On that 206 I and a couple of later 206s / 210's I used in Alaska where water is a problem, I removed the factory strainer-drain pull that was under the oil filler door, ordered an older version interior Cessna strainer drain cable and installed in under the instrument panel, and had my IA do a field 337 for it, so water could be drained out of the strainer in flight if required. I know there was an SB to install remove the in-cabin strainer drain due to the possibility of a corroded cable jamming and leaking fuel in flight but I figure water contamination is a greater risk. I later bought a 210 once that had set outside for over a year on the northern Californian coast, that a respected AI just completed a ferry permit for. It had those flush fuel caps that the hydraulic pressure of raindrops drive right through, so I asked how much water he drained out. He said "No water the tanks are full" I said" "can't be there has to be water in it" he sumped the main tanks and a light blue liquid came out and he said: "See 100LL, no water" I took a smell and it did smell a bit like old stale 100LL but sloshed like water so I dumped it on the ground and it beaded-up like water. After draining water for about an hour, the wing tanks contained were not full to the caps, but held only 30gal of fuel, the rest, (about 50gal) was water, that had been setting so long with the fuel, the blue dye from the fuel colored the water a light shade of blue. Unlike the 206, however, the 210's header tanks were full of fuel, and the engine ran fine, even during run-up, but if I had attempted to depart I would have not got far and ended up in the trees.
Wow 😮! This is great to know! My dad owned a 210 over 20 years ago and I have flown several 206’s over the years but don’t remember the header tank drains. Glad you are here to tell the story.
@@CarDocBabaPhilipo Exactly! growing up my Dad was a Cessna dealer and we had a lot of 210s and 206s and I never knew they had header tanks that needed to be drained. As I recall, the header tanks not in the POH fuel system schematic either! I just did an image search for 210 fuel system and the diagram shows no header tanks, but if you search for "Cessna 210 Fuel Header / Tank Reservoir" you see used ones listed. Proof that they do exist. There may be something in the service manual that requires the header tanks to be drained occasionally, but who ever does it? I bought and sold at least 20 210s and several 206's, and some had quick drains in the header tanks, others safety wired A&N plugs. I typically replaced the plugs with quick drains and put note page in the forward of the POH about the drains, and hand noted the pre-flight section to include the belly drains. As I recall at least 6 of the 20 or so 210's I bought and checked, had water in the header tanks.
@@CarDocBabaPhilipo Exactly! My dad was a Cessna dealer and I grew up flying 206s, and 210s and I was not aware the fuel header tanks needed to be drained, or could be drained. Looking at fuel system schematics from the POH online for a couple models of 206 and 210, I see no mention of the header tanks, but do see many images of salvaged header tanks as proof they exist, and the different configurations with different drain locations. There may be something in the Service Manual about draining the header tanks occasionally but if so, does anyone ever do it? I've seen some models with header tanks that have quick drains and others that have safety wired plugs, and as I encountered, some might not even have access holes to drain the tanks. After that 206 encounter, I had about 20 210s and several 206s, and about 6 had some water in the header tanks. On several, I placed a note in the POH regarding the header tanks and hand scribbled a note in the pre-flight checklist about the header tanks.
@@johnnyutah1986 Not that I know of, but there's a lot of FAA issued letters, SBs and a few AD related to all high-wing Cessnas and fuel systems. I just did a search and didn't see anything specifically related to the lack of drain holes but did find an interesting thread 'Cessna 206 Fuel System Problems Flightist Start date Sep 15, 2006 - Flightinfo' talking about the same Issue I encountered, and additional vapor lock issues involving the header tanks, loss of power on takeoff I've encountered on 200 sires Cessnas and a P337. I encountered this Typically after a hot shutdown such as for refueling, long taxis or holds for takeoff I attributed to fuel injector line heating and vapor lock. On the P337 and one Turbo 206, I found a high-power run-up just before take-off to flush out hot fuel in the engine compartment typically eliminated it, but it typically occurred early in the take-off roll, but on especially hot days I had it happen just a rotation, so it could have been header tank related.
I am a 62 year old aviation enthusiast. My brother in law had a Cessna 172 back in the early 70's, and I can remember the entire pre-flight procedure now. Skipping ANY item MAY always be a problem. In this case, this gentleman bet his life on less than 5 minutes of a standard procedure and lost. IF ONLY ONE LIFE IS SAVED BY LEARNING THIS LESSON, THEN IT HAS SERVED A PURPOSE!! RIP. BTW Juan- your son really is growing up fast, but has a heck of a good teacher in you!
During my multi engine training in Southern Calif., in a 1958 Apache, during pre flight I got at least a half cup of water out of each tank. I drained an extra amount from each tank for good measure. During flight in a right hand turn I noticed fuel siphoning from the cap. (they used old Thermos style plug fuel cap and it had rained two days earlier. We elected to land, fuel checked the tanks again and found more water. Again drained extra amount of fuel after no water found. Proceeded to take off and as I herd two misses I pulled throttles back and parked the airplane. Again finding more water. We realized the tanks have several low spots and each time the aircraft was turned, water would slosh to the drain which was a rib or two over. I received points for emergency procedures that day and learned a very valuable lesson!!! That was 1973. (That SAME Apache showed up on your video at the Luscombe gathering at Grass Valley a couple years ago. I played that video over ten times to make sure it was the same Apache. It was beautiful and in amazing condition compared to when I flew it.)
Holy Crap! Great job! I would be TERRIFIED to try to flay that airplane ever again! How would you know, for certain, that there is no more water in the system?
After you get the water out go to the wingtip and lift it up and down multiple times to rock the wings. This will get the water in the pockets to flow to the lowest point. Check again for water and repeat if necessary.
Well said Juan! My son bought a C152 that needed service but waited for parts, sitting outside for more than 2 months during a springtime in Seattle. We got the call that the plane was ready and "airworthy" please come and fly it home. As a CFI I consistently taught that any airplane just out of maintenance required an in depth walkaround. We started to sump the tanks, and then sump some more, and .....more. Using the "GATS" jar we took out about 1 1/4 gallons of water out of both tanks and the gascolator. At that point I called a stop; we notified the A&P to drain the tanks and clean the fuel system. When questioned as to how he (A&P) was able to do a run up and the taxi test required he said he had no problem, the engine started and ran OK. "Anyway", he continued, "the flying part was our responsibility". We ordered new gas tank caps and found another A&P to work on that plane.
This isn't a case of an auto mechanic using an impact wrench on the oil drain plug and being dumb like that. Glad you were active and found it. Not all pilots do that, and get into trouble.
This reminds me of my dad showing me this so many times. I'm 66 now, and he was actually in his Piper Cub the day I was born. He always had an airplane, from that Cub to Cessna 140, Piper Cherokees, Cessna Cardinal RG, and his last and favorite, an old T-34B with navy trainer markings. When we flew together, whatever the craft, he monitored me checking the gas for water contamination. Such a treasure to see you sharing that with your son. Thanks Juan.
I hired a PA28 from an FBO in Florida around 20 years ago. I did a fuel drain check on both wing tanks, no obvious contaminants, but something wasn’t quite right on one tank. It was blue coloured and smelled like fuel, but something wasn’t right; even when tipping it onto the hot concrete where it evaporated (pre EPA days). In a moment of good luck I took 1/2 sample from one wing tank and topped it off from the other - and found two liquids that didn’t mix! I went back into the FBO with the split sample. They called an engineer who drained a washing up bowl full of water from the contaminated tank. The aircraft had been awaiting a replacement magneto and had sat outside for nearly two months before it had been fitted the day before, and the seal was damaged/worn. The aircraft had been ground run on the uncontaminated tank only. I didn’t fly that day, and never went back to OBA to rent from them ever again. If you think your fuel drain test isn’t correct, try mixing samples from different tanks and you may be surprised by the result - I WAS!
@synupps877 when the first gallon or so you take as a sample is all water there is nothing to see. It had been sat for so long the water smelt like 100LL and maybe some of the colour had dissolved out too? It was pure luck I tried this, better than finding out during the taxi out and run up - always switch tanks before you depart!
I'm very glad your around to tell the tale . . . . . I'm NOT a pilot ( as much as I would love to be able to pass the physical ) . . . But ?!? I do pride myself on learning new stuff and applying that knowledge to my Automotive applications . . . . Water in the fuel is never good .
When I was 15 back in 1986 and I only took fuel from one tank in the tube, my father smacked me across the back of the head so hard it never occurred to me to not check both tanks ever again.
It's an acronym used for pilots to assess their physical and mental readiness before a flight: ILLNESS, MEDICATION, STRESS, ALCOHOL, FATIGUE, EMOTION@@RevMarket
It's important to know that if you take a fuel sample and you have a significant amount of water, the water can fill your entire fuel sample vessel and you will not see any separation of layers. If you have a sample completely filled with water, all you have to do is fail to notice the absence of blue tint, and you can miss the contamination. Take your time and make absolutely certain you have a good pure sample of fuel and nothing else. Smell it, look at it, pour some out and make sure it doesn't bead up.
That’s a dam shame, as a former instructor I was a fanatic about checking for water. I used to get complaint from the school I taught at sighting that the plane is refilled so often because of use that it would never have water in it. But things like condensation fuel trucks with water, bad filters on the fuel truck or whatever… spilled gas on a tarmac is cheep insurance.
Very first thing I ever learned about flying, was from an old airport out in Utah. A little private field, mostly used for skydivers, called "Alta Airfield". I was only 10 at the time, and was just there making a nuisance of myself, or so I felt, as I was a gopher for the long-time mechanic & pilot out there. One of his first words of advice he gave me, I've never forgotten. He basically said, "Wanna become human paste really fast? Forget all the basics you've learned, and get yourself in a hurry. In life, many things can become second nature, because they don't have any real consequences attached to them- Flying does. There's no curbs you can pull over to, if you forget your basics. The WILL come back and end you. NEVER skip anything. Even once you feel you got 'em all down pat.". He was a grouchy old guy, but I always looked up to him. Looking back today, it was for good reason. That advice works for more than just flying, and I've never forgotten it. He was a good man.
You make an excellent point. Much of what I learned while undergoing flight training has carried over to the rest of my life, as well the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared!" Friends often think I'm being pedantic.
Teaching young Pete some of the important safety requirements of aviation will educate a lot of pilots, young and old, experienced and inexperienced. Smart move, Professor Browne!
I'm not a pilot, but have flown many times with my friend who is a CFI. He does a water sump drain test before *every* single flight, regardless of whether of the amount of time before the previous flight and whether or not new fuel has been taken on. I can't imagine why an experienced pilot would skip this crucial preflight step, regardless of whether they were in a hurry or not. Based on the NTSB preliminary report an other reports, it's remarkable how many corners were cut prior to this tragic accident.
Perhaps there was a camera crew at the destination airport all geared up to capture video of a whole bunch of back slapping . "They said we'd never succeed with this project"
This case is a big mess of a huge amount of unprofessional behavior. This could only run into problems. Rebuild Rescue needs badly to overthink their game, they are playing. And learn a lot more about the habits of aviation. Paying with life is a no go. But also Sam should have known better dealing with this plane. He decided to board it, fly it, obviously without proper inspection? 🤔 sad unnecessary tragic case. Very good and highly professional review on this incident Juan. Perfect. 👍
Juan, your demonstration at the end of showing the fuel tester with fuel and water was awesome! I remember seeing pictures in flight school but that isn't something the laymen most likely has seen. Keep up the good work!. As a fellow ATP, your message about aviation not being forgiving of some reality tv build for likes and subs is extremely truthful. I hope people who aren't properly trained and rated take a valuable lesson from this. Airplanes can be and sometimes are, less forgiving than the North Atlantic ocean for mariners.
Hi, Pete, your dad is teaching you well. Not a pilot or in aviation. I am an occupational health and safety professional and your videos speak volumes to the safety world.
was a line guy for a major FBO. every tank at the fuel farm and truck was sumped every night. the amount of QC we did and the results were recorded, you as a pilot & A&P are well aware of the record keeping. as far as pilots checking, no idea. we got most of our fuel problems, water, from 100LL. one G-4 celebrity's pilot used to ask to see a sump for the fuel truck, mostly when he was headed to Europe. i personally never flew a plane i didn't use a fuel tester on.
Whenever I tell my wife about a Blankolirio video, I always preface it with "Pete's dad said." I've done this ever since Pete did his report on one of the Wright brothers. If I say "Juan Brown said. . ." she won't know who I'm talking about. *Keep up the good work Pete's Dad.*
In the 1950s, my father started his commercial airline career with West Coast Airline on the DC3. Before moving on to the Fairchild F27, he would amass over 10,000 hrs. in The DC3, 3000hrs as copilot and the rest as captain. Father would often relate how critical attitude and air speed were, especially if you lost an engine. He often stressed to me that upon loss of an engine, you absolutely must feather the dead engine and level the wings and equally important center the ball. He told of one hot August night, leaving Pasco Washington right at dusk with a full load of passengers heading to Portland Oregon when the left engine blew one of the cylinders punching a hole in the cowling so he could observe the piston flailing about and sparks flying. He said we were about 400ft feet AGL the gear just pulled up flaps at 15 degrees and climbed at about 400 ft/min. Our rate of climb went to zero, and I firewalled both engines. Tried to gain some altitude and any airspeed possible. Told the copilot to declare an emergency as we began a very slow, gradual left turn. Shut down and feathered the left engine after about two minutes. Again, I focused on centering the needle and minimal bank, letting the good engine slowly pull us around. We reached a maximum of 550ft AGL as we lined up, and I lowered the gear once we were descending and had the runway made. The biggest thing back then was airmanship. There was no room or power for mistakes. The margins were so small.
I’m surprised that he elected to turn into the dead engine, it’s usually recommended to turn away from the dead engine, keeping the working engine on the inside of the turn.
Thats a pretty cool story. I've always thought about the pilots back in the old days before electronic fly aid, GPS, radar any of that. These were some amazing pilots. Can you imagine flying across the Pacific Ocean, L.A to Hawaii or Across the Atlantic, New York to London back then. Holy cow that would be pretty humbling I'm sure.
From the report the aircraft was under positive control, needless maneuvers would be detrimental to the primary goal...getting the aircraft safely on the ground!@@Pete-tq6in
SMDH. My A&P recommended replacing my Cherk's fuel cap gaskets at last annual. I ran down to the local Aircraft Spruce and picked up a full set for, IIRC, $3.50 each. Replacing them took about 10 minutes. For want of a nail, etc etc.
Sad to see these senseless accidents week after week. Thanks for giving us the inside scoop and hopefully preventing these types of accidents in the future by building awareness of simple yet fatal mistakes…
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your content. This one is a useful reminder that if you are in a hurry to fly you are in a hurry to die. Sad loss of a pilot and airframe.
being a AME, aircraft maintenance person,i have worked on plenty of aircraft refurbs,,,GA maintenance is very expensive,no expence can be spared. rushing a job will be a disaster waiting to happen.
If you don't run checklists it doesn't really matter if it was a UA-cam channel who put the plane together or some official mechanic. Personally I would double check since you know the aircraft's history. For those who love MSFS, in the PA24 Comanche 250 of A2A the fuel contamination is actually simulated as well and you can drain the fuel on the walk around. It actually keeps track on how long you didn't fly the plane and what the conditions are when you stalled it and where. Pretty aweseome.
Yep, lawn mower engines do the same. Key difference is your mower wont fall out of the sky and take you with it. Its sad so many people are in such a hurry and putting themselves in danger without even knowing it.
Watch the build videos to see how sketchy this annual was performed and the absolute minimum work being done to this plane. Shadetree valve job (lapped the valves on one cylinder to get compression back to just below minimum), etc.
Even worse, same old tanks. Didn't even flush them because you know fuel gets funky over time. The guy's a shade tree auto mechanic dabbling in aircraft rebuilding. I first saw him in a "will it run" involving a late model Chevy Corvair found in a barn. Bad fuel doesn't cause cars to fall out of the sky, but he bet his friend's life on this same mentality. Then again, his friend did himself in by not doing the preflight and runup checks. Isn't inspecting the fuel part of inspecting the plane?
A real question is how did this plane just pass its Annual Inspection without a gasket on the fuel cap? or was it removed afterwards and someone forgot to replace it?
It's crazy that you mentioned how aviation is not conducive to reality TV shows (not exact quote). When I was banner towing, we were contacted by a reality TV producer and I was all kinds of excited to be a part of it! I never understood why the company owner/boss didn't like the idea of it. We got as far as creating a really nice intro, but the producer said "it's not life-threatening enough for reality TV." I proposed we do some things that skirted the FAA regs to make it look more deadly than it is, but that's when the boss pulled out. Now almost 15 years later I'm glad he did that, cause it really could have put all of us in serious danger, even with all safety precautions adhered to behind the scenes.
Aviation done right is supposed to be boring. When things get exciting, chances are that people die. "A superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid situations where he has to demonstrate his superior skills!"
You won’t find me turning wrenches on aircraft on video. Lawyers are already going to tear you apart (even if you were in the right) in front of a jury who knows nothing of aviation. Feel for those mechanics, but they put themselves in a situation where they are now going to be scrutinized.
@@Dovorans Actually he was just jealous that she was really hot and I was partying in the clubs with her every night while she was in town (that's how i met her). 🤣
NASA coined a term for when preventable accidents were precipitated by taking shortcuts. The term is called the normalization of deviance. Unfortunately, that appears to be the case here.
Thanks Juan. Its not always rain that would get in the tank. In humid areas it can be condensation from moisture in the air that ends up in the bottom of the tank. The fuel evaporates and reduces the temperature to below the dewpoint and the moisture in the air space above it condenses out. So topping up the tanks before putting the plane to bed was what I was taught. Knowing this I've even found this happening in my lawnmower fuel tank. That seal is very important.
Water in fuel, such a fundamental issue. Completely familar with this, regularly check fuel on an S2G Grumman Tracker as part of the maintenance crew. The Tracker is a flying aircraft in an aviation museum here in Australia, maintained and flown by a completely volunteer crew.
@@mikenewman4078 Hi Mike. The Tracker used to be operated at Nowra by Navy, but Navy disposed of it around 2019, now owned and operated by the Historic Aircraft Restoration Society at Shellharbour Airport. All most all the crew, flying and maintenance are ex Navy.
During takeoff one day, I saw a fuel cap on the runway. We called all company aircraft back to land; one of the twins was flying with an open fuel tank.
I once had a Katana taxi past me with the fuel cap dangling on the chain. With lots of hand signals I got the instructor to get the student to shut down the a/c. They never said "thanks", just went on like I being an alarmist or perhaps was slowing them down or something.
You were slowing them down and taking valuable time from airtime. You also likely saved a life or 2 or more. If not that day on another. Pretty sure the student never messes that up on their preflight ever. Well done@@shermancouch9964
@ingZulu - I was surprised too. ... I once landed a Grumman after a 3 hour flight, and the cargo door was flapping as I taxied in. I had failed to lock it during the pre-flight work. No harm, no foul, but embarrassing. That being said, I'd rather someone on the ground noticed it and stopped me before departure.
This is a good reminder. I was a flight instructor during the eighty’s and ninety’s . I had a student with a brand new Piper Archer which unfortunately was not hangared. Before one of our flights, my student was looking at a fuel sample and thought something didn’t look right. It was pure water, no separation line. We pulled 7 full samples of water before we got any fuel at all. The fuel cap condition appeared fine but definitely leaked. Piper sent a new cap under warranty and the problem never occurred again.
@@furyofbongos It’s not easy to notice with a casual glance that’s for sure. But I always taught folks to hold the sample up to a light colored surface to observe the blue tint of the 100 LL fuel. Pure water will appear clear. However, don’t make the mistake of holding it up to blue sky, that can make the water appear blue as well. A white plane or checklist works well.
@@RichardHumphreys-t1p if you put a white-backed sticker (like a mailing label) on the side of your fuel tester, you will always have a clean white surface right there to compare the fuel color to.
I got a call from my dad one night. He had run out of gas, grabbed a gas can he had stored in the trunk, dumped in only to figure out it was water! The car was a 1955 Buick station wagon and the tank had a drain plug. I drained it until I was sure it was mostly gas, dumped in some real gas but it wouldn't run. I towed him home and when I took the top of the carb off you could see beads of water blocking both jets - the water would not flow through. Very sad loss of Sam and I'm sure Jason is broken by this tragedy. It shows how quickly an oversight can get you and how critical every step in a preflight is. RIP Sam!
I was taught to check for water in the fuel every time I took a plane up. This was applicable even if the plane had just returned from a flight. We also had to wait 15 minutes after refueling and then check for water. It's such an easy thing to do.
It just dawned on me that this simple example of what water looks like in your fuel tester should be mandatory as part of PPL training. While I did know what to look for, there's an awful lot of young people getting their PPL who have never seen it.
I once took a promotional lesson to see whether I like getting my PPL. The instructor took it very seriously to show me how to check the fuel for water. Hence I thought this is a routine everybody learns to do and adhere to.
@@brandyballoonif you are unsure put a small amount on a paper towel. If it is 100LL the fuel will evaporate and the paper towel will dry quickly. If it is jet fuel or water the paper towel will stay wet. I saw an IA demonstrate this at a Wings seminar on Avfuel decades ago.
Where is the guy from the last video where he commented that Rebuild Rescue were the safest of safe and you replied "Are you an A&P?". I want to see him go for round 2.
@@ronaldscott781 those responses just identify those folks as part of the problem. There is no room in aviation for people who can't ask themselves the question "Am I the problem?".
No you aren't allowed to be mean to them, it would be "disrespectful to Sam's memory". I would have thought that giving an unsafe plane to Sam to fly would be disrespectful to Sam, but the believers this was probably just a one-in-a-million chance so you can't blame RR.
Please refer to my comment above for some possible missing information that may explain a few things that weren’t explained in the short preliminary by the NTSB
I found water in my 150 trainer once. Very eye opening to realize how so much worse my day could have gone, the worst that day went was I didn’t get to fly. And I’m here to tell you about it.
I enjoy many UA-cam aviation channels that take the viewer along for the journey. I don’t care for channels that do things just for the content. You can’t work on aircraft like you would an old car! Aviation is the ultimate realm of the old adage “Do you want it done fast or do you want it done properly.”
Pilots should also check to make sure fuel caps are tightened after a third party pumps fuel. I worked at a community airport in college and a jet that bought fuel from the local FBO took off and ran out of fuel after the left wing tank cap became dislodged and fuel was sucked out of the tank. The pilots were not paying attention to their fuel quantity as they had just filled the tanks. Very important to make sure fuel caps are tight, but most pilots don't check them when they are closed.
You’re absolutely right. It’s not house flipping. It’s not even land speed automobile building. I’m thinking the only thing more dangerous to build in a rushed, monetarily constrained manner is submerged vessels.
It's hard to put to words, but the restoration channel set off all kinds of red flags in the back of my head when I'd see their videos. A gut feeling. Rebuilding planes for medical charity flights is good, and that's where they draw people in- but the reality TV format, despite not being contracted with a network and no obligation to be that way? Clickbait thumbnails, titles, and editing? Taking on multiple projects instead of carefully focusing on 1, MAYBE 2 at a time, so there's always additional things to ask for donatons for? The unrealistic rushed schedules, despite the safety risks and possible consequences? And when we're given reassurances, it's from the channel itself, specifically the content creator. Not his certified partners, at least from the videos I kept coming across. You know how police departments do an "internal investigaton" and clear themselves of any wrong-doing? Yeah, that's the vibe I get from the channel. I know the FAA has done their own investigations, that's a separate cup of tea. I'm just talking about the defensive and self-congratulating tone of the videos. Maybe the style of videos just isn't my cup of tea, but they've always made me feel uneasy. Aviation is more serious than house flipping and barn finds.
finishing repairs on an aircraft the day for delivering is just asking for trouble. That customer probably thanks on his knees that airplane wasn't delivered to him...
While waiting at self-serve pumps, I've seen pilots refuel, sump the tank, and blast off. It makes no sense to sump the tank when you've just refueled. Indeed, in a March 2023 AOPA article titled "Don't rush to sump," Terrie Mead says it's a better practice to wait at least fifteen minutes to let the contaminants settle before sumping. Depending on the size of the tank, it can take even longer. If I'm doing it wrong, then I guess I will have to change my ways after fifty-three years.
Not only can water get into the fuel tank with a bad cap seal, but you can also siphon fuel overboard in flight. I owned a 1960 Cessna 210 for a few years. Toward the last few years I owned it the fuel consumption seemingly went up drastically. I complained to the mechanic, but he just said that I was not leaning it properly in flight. It turned out to be a bad fuel cap seal that was allowing fuel to be siphoned overboard while in flight.
Juan I wasn't following that channel rebuild rescue but after your video I went and watched a few videos on this cougar. And in the first flight to Michigan and during that flight they mentioned about moisture coming out of the left and right wing. Now whether this had anything to with the accident I'm not sure. However in the accident flight his slot was delayed 2 times he had plenty of time to do the proper checks. I drove an 18 wheeler for 20 years and even I did a pre trip inspection to mak sure everything is ok to go it's sad that a person especially of his experience didn't take a few minutes while waiting to check..just sad I enjoy your channel ty for all you do!!!
My dad got his private ticket in the mid 60s. I distinctly remember that he had a laminated walk around checklist on a clipboard with an attached grease pencil. I also remember that trim tab operation was part of the list because he would have me run the trim while he was outside checking. I'm not sure how he did this when alone but I'm 100% certain he did. I remember being nervous when he had the J3 because I had to upfront and couldn't see him and the fact it was so slow. It seemed to hang in the air. After the J3 he got a 150 with his buddy. I remember my Mom wouldn't allow both my sister and I go with him together. It was one or the other. She said she didn't want to be left alone. She was afraid of flying and I don't remember her ever going up with my dad. His last craft was a Cherokee which he owned until he died. I sold it for a stupid amount of money.
I love the way you ended your last sentence in your introduction, JB. That should be an ominous warning to all concerned. Thanks for your update, time, and resources., as always. Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏽🖖🏽
Hi Juan, Great video as always, thanks for getting this up straight away. I’m an Aeronautical Engineer with nearly 20 years experience and am around halfway through my PPL. My first ever lesson in the C152 during the pre-flight saw me find water on the engine fuel drain sample. It’s been drummed into me from day one to always do a fuel drain even if it has been checked on the first flight of the day. My time flying RC Helicopters taught me about Methanol being hygroscopic and to pay careful attention to fuel contamination. Ratty old fuel drain tubes which the plastic has gone crazed and off color also increases the risk of contamination being undetected. Keep up the great work Juan. Cheers
Achieved my first multi engine rating on a P30 Twin Comanchee 160hp engines. No counter rotating props, and offset tail highlighted the importance of identifying the critical engine and reduced effectivenes of left rudder when countering yaw. Airspeed below red line and blue line was identified as critical to achieving the next phase of the flight. Engine failure with airspeed below red line stop or controlled crash straight ahead. Airspeed after rotation and below blue line the aircraft is essentially a single engined aircraft unable to climb. Maintaing directional control and airspeed above vmca is paramount to the safe operation of the aircraft after the event. Failure to initiate the correct procedures will severly limit the possibility of a happy outcome.
And debris also... Clearly a lack of care was put into preparing this old fuel system. Something anyone who has restored old vehicles would be well aware of after decades of non use.
@@volvo09 You are forgetting this aircraft sat for a max of two years. And the timing of the posting of the videos does not equal the time the project took. The actual process took several months. The timeline to finish it and fly it back to PA was all UA-cam-induced drama. Also, Sam and Jason flew the aircraft over 500 miles back to their home base AFTER it's annual. This post and others are either glossing over or completely ignoring these important points.
@@lloydeyler8608 exactly. At the end of the day a proper preflight was not done by the PIC. No reason to be bashing on the YT channel for this accident.
I live in a very rural place a commercial pilot had bought some sporting camps on our lake I talked to his wife one day we were talking about flying and I said I was really nervous to get my license she said a nervous pilot is better than an overconfident pilot I always remembered her words they both were old and retired wonderful wonderful people
With Basicmed, you have two requirements which must be satisfied. The Basicmed online course requirement is required every 2 years, while the Basicmed CMEC exam that you do with your doctor is required every 4 years. While he satisfied the Basicmed course requirement in July 2023, his most recent Basicmed exam was in August 2019. Thus he was out of current with the Basicmed exam, which means he was not medically legal to act as PIC at the time of the crash.
I just remembered something else from my pilot training days. I was thinking about how water might have entered the fuel system and I was thinking only about the missing gasket and water getting in by way of the gas cap without a gasket. But that is certainly NOT the only way water can enter the fuel system. The preliminary report said the Sam added 80 gals of fuel so the tanks must have been relatively empty. The best way to keep water out of the fuel system is to keep the tanks topped off. This prevent air saturated with moisture from condensing inside the tanks and depositing water in to the fuel system. So tanks low on fuel could have been the source of the water especially in the winter PA environment even inside a hangar.
The swiss cheese model is flawed. Most of us have been in situations where we look back and think "How the hell did I just get away with that?" What happened is all the holes lined up, we went through and the holes stayed lined up until we got out the other side. The problems begin when the holes start closing up when you are part way through. If you are lucky they close up behind you if your not then you end up doing a Garfield onto a very unforgiving surface.
@@AgnemonsThe Swiss cheese model isn't flawed, it works just fine. But I think using cheese makes it harder to understand. I'd say instead of cheese you should think of the slices as floors in a building under construction. If you're walking along on the top floor and someone's left a hole in the uncompleted floor, you'll get injured when hit the floor below. But if someone working on each floor has left a hole open in the same place, then you'll end up falling all the way to the basement and dead.
Absolutely spot on reporting Juan. From the time I started fly at age 13, fuel samples were a MUST, as was checking the caps and related gaskets on the high wing 150. On the SNJ-6, we used the green 100/130 and pulling the prop through several rotations was drilled in my head over 52 years ago. Check, recheck and check again. I’m curious if the plane was turning to the right (dead foot, dead motor), the left wing appeared to be separated at the wing root. I think you said there was no mention on if the propeller (either) was feathered. Solid reporting and I can’t believe how grown up Major Pete looks. Is he driving yet. Ha 😂
Your wise words regarding these UA-cam videos depicting “hurry-up” restorations and the number of accumulated “likes” is something to be considered by any would-be “internet influencer.” Thank you for pointing out the grim downside of failing to follow standard operating procedure and adherence to preflight checklists.
Nice fuel sample pongo Juan. 20 years as a usaf fuel systems mechanic and I never once use anything but a screw driver and a mason jar. 😮 keep up the good work, really like your videos.
Every little airplane out there has one of two types (for the most part) both like similar, one has a pin, the other two notches, most have a screw driver tip on the other side..
For those who don't know it. petroleum products like gasoline, jet fuel, etc are lighter than water. They float on top of water. Gasoline weighs 6 pounds per gallon. Water weighs eight pounds per gallon. Light plane fuel tanks hold more fuel than they can use. My Cessna 172 had two wing tanks that held 22 gallons each, but useful fuel was only 20 gallons. There is a reason for that two gallons of unusable fuel. The man doing the preflight forgot that.
It's been a very long time, but I have been a passenger with three different private pilots. I distinctly remember all three explaining their pre-flight checks (one was an instructor, so was used to explaining everything to students, one told me that talking out loud was his way of making sure he did everything, one probably more out of habit as a fairly new pilot and having to tell his instructor what he was doing). All three included a fuel check with a tool similar to the one Juan showed here. I also remember at least one of them tossing the sample on the ground to make sure it wasn't pure water - which wouldn't have that distinctive line in the sample container that we saw in the science experiment at the end. I can't imagine short cutting such an important pre-flight check.
Few years back I did a motorbike trip. After switching to reserve fuel, the engine stopped and i had to clean out the tank on the go, finding liters of rusty water. The fuel tank overflow hole was clogged, submerging the fuel cap in water during every rainfall and allowing it to leak past the seal. Already had a hard time starting the bike in the morning, as the level of water must have been just above the normal fuel draw level. The whole reserve amount was pure water.
I'm not a pilot but it sounds like the guy was rushing to go because he had a flight to make afterwards. We'll never know why he made the decision to skip some of the crucial pre-flight checks. It might be one of those things where 99 times out of a 100 it's never an issue and he figured it probably won't be a problem this time around. It just goes to show that there is a reason why the proper procedure must be followed each and every time. Condolences to the friends and family of the pilot.
a professional aviator does the right thing, even when no one is looking. Rushing wasn't the reason for skipping a tank sump. Skipping that step was the norm. Poor safety culture permeates RR.
I enjoyed a flooding of water many years ago. In hast, looking at the sample of fuel taken from the tank, I did not notice any water "separation" and the bottom. I was not planning to fly immediately and was running up at the tie down for other reasons. After a long several minutes, the engine shook to a stop. Upon opening the cowl, I then noticed the water/fuel separation in the clear filter bowl. I sumped the tank again and realized that there was so much water that there was no fuel...&%#*. I always smell the sample since that day. As Juan noted, leaky fuel cap... I Got Lucky, very lucky...!
I picked up a Cessna 180 once that was setting outside for a couple weeks and was rained on few times. Sumped the first wing, looked at it, didn't notice anything and scattered it, sumped the other wing and there was some water in it, took a few times to get all the water out. Started thinking about the other tank, something didn't seem right so I went back to sump it again. I didn't notice anything because I drained out nothing but water, got a bucket and I must have drained out over a quart. That's how it can get you.
I knew nothing of their channel, I just went and watched one of the Cougar videos. Even if I did not know of the crash, I would have my hair stand up watching the one I looked at just because of the near constant emphasis on pace and deadline to get a MAJOR amount of stuff done. It was annoying
I made the mistake one time sumped the fuel tank’s in preflight ,all was good . The plane needed fuel so they came and topped it off , i did not re sump it . Did run up everything was good lined up for takeoff . Took off got half way into the down wind leg and lost power , mad it back to the runway then taxiway . Two other planes went down back to back , other two had off field landings . No one got hurt one plane was a write off , all three got fuel from the same truck. Always sup a couple min after refuel 🙏🏽
We lost a friend to this fuel/water issue and he didn't sump the tanks. Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche, N830SS: Accident occurred June 22, 2013 in Idaho Falls, Idaho.. This happened after 6 months storage. The Grumman GA-7 is great for people like me who weigh around 165 pounds and live in north country.
I looked up the NTSB report on it. It's eerily like this one. Light twin takes off, witnesses say it only gained 100-200 ft altitude, they heard the right engine surge and some pops and it crashed. Other witnesses said the pilot didn't check the sumps for water.
Thanks professor Juan for another excellent lesson, unfortunately because of someones negligence and get there itis. RIP for our flyer. I got caught with weather and my Cessna 210 got left outside and several heavy rain storms. Caps and gaskets Appeared in good shape, and was terrified with the amount of water in the tanks. Needless to say, I Always have time for sumping the tanks.
Early model (pre 1990) Cessnas had installed one fuel drain in each wing tank. Post 1990, they started fitting 5 (from memory) drains for each tank. Water in tanks has been a problem for a long time.
I believe the newer models with wet wings need more drains because of the different low points. The bladder style only really has one low point but they also have their own problems.
Rushing almost always leads to problems. It's a life lesson, not just for pilots. Slow down, pay attention, be in the moment. Thanks for the coverage of this Juan+Pete.
'Rebuild Rescue' focuses mostly on superficial cosmetic work using completely arbitrary target timeframes. It's entertainment - nothing more - just like 'Mythbusters', and deludes people into thinking they've learned something. It might have some value in getting children and youth interested in pursuing certain careers, but for anyone else it's actually dangerous - the Dunning-Kruger effect manifest.
Find water in fuel truck sumps. Best to get a sample into a white bucket. Find water and debris in aircraft sumps. Old cells have wrinkles and can trap water. Sump after fueling. After sitting. Even then you may still find water.
Good job. Sad this happened. Now to hear about AA running off the end of the runway in Dallas since our Union blocks all comments on our pilot boards regarding incidents now.
As Airline pilot and a CFI for 40 years. I have also rebuilt 5 aircraft over the years. I started watching that channel and just could not make myself finish watching. They were making numerous mistakes fixing up the airplane.
Also, one must be careful when draining the sump. For example, if there is SIGNIFICANT water in the tank, you may not see a separation between water and fuel because it may be ALL WATER. I always taught my students to pour a small amount of what you've drained onto the asphalt...water will form "balls" or clumps, but fuel just spreads out in a uniform way. Do NOT trust the color, as it is easy to convince yourself the liquid you see has a bluish tint, especially depending on the background you view it against.
Michigan pilot here, I was taught to top off tanks overnight due to condensation that could develop, on ramp or hanger’d. Never gave it thought & along with visual sump , never ever left this out. Hurrying is not part of flying!!
Thank you Juan, the truth is hard, but in our world, absolutely necessary. Many of us posted comments of concern on many of the videos, word’s unheeded led to what I’ll now be a tremendous heartache for many.
Good info Juan. You MUST be careful with your fuel samples. I always smell the sample to make sure it’s fuel and not all water. When flight instructing, I had an airplane that several complete samples were all water, if you’re not paying attention, it looks very similar to a good fuel sample. I think we drained probably ½ cup of water. The flight was a no-go as I let Mx take care of it. I know you can shake the airplane, allow time for the H2O to settle and drain, lather, rinse and repeat. I’m not that brave any more.
Thank you Juan for this review. Please everyone understand that flying is not the same as taking the SUV out for spin and that there is nothing wrong with waiting a few minutes to perform a proper preflight inspection. Better 10 minutes late than not arriving at all.
One of the first things I was taught as a 14 yr old as my dad was becoming a private pilot...he trained on Pipers...the Tomahawk, Warrior (my fav), Archer, Arrow and the Saratoga, was to check the fuel. Engines dont like water to run on...and as a teacher of 32 yrs and still continue to do so, I must say the demonstration Pete got to participate in and see WILL always stay with him. Sad circumstances, needless death....swiss cheese comment...spot on.
Always sample fuel from the top of the aircraft first, then the lower drains. If one starts at the lowest point,perhaps the firewall strainer, it can draw contaminated fuel from the wings into the lines to remain undetected. (Lesson from mentor some fifty years ago.)
Got my ppl working as an linemen, we had Cessna's, Piper's' singles, & twins...I was constantly refueling these flight school airplanes, water never even got a chance. however...now I'm only 20 years old, I'm still learning if you will. I was taught to drain the fuel and check for water, which I did every preflight, never found anything, but none of my instructors , ( I had a few working at the airport, just grab one when ya can.) Ever drilled into my head about what may happen in the long term effect when an airplane sits, or bad gaskets etc. you instructors out there take a little time with your student on this...thank you.
Started watching Rebuild Rescue from Jason's very early episodes since I've been a part of restoring numerous antique, classic, and muscle cars through my years and enjoy seeing things getting rescued. Although I'm not a pilot, or even an A&P, I have numerous friends, including A&P's, who are involved with or retired from the aviation industry. Through this circle I have gained a fundamental understanding of the industry and hobby. I never was comfortable with Jason's approach and cavalier attitude around getting these old birds airworthy again and unsubbed long ago fearing this very outcome. My condolences to Sam and his family.
Professional auto mechanic here. I watched ONE video by Jason on the Austin Healey rescue after hearing about this aircraft accident, just to get a feel for the guy. He'd have been fired on the spot if he just started guessing at the firing order in my shop or my class, like he did with the Austin Healey. He even caught the thing on fire in the process. At the end of that video he admits he had the manual and "looked at it maybe a year ago." Told me everything I needed to know about his aptitude and attitude
@@artt3165Same here. I worked as an A&P/IA for decades. His videos and attitude alarmed me. He is not alone. If there is any good to come from this debacle, it could be that independent A/Ps will stop participating in these "rescues".
Darn! What a crying shame. All he had to do was sump the tanks, and he might still be with us. So very sad. A deep lesson in this. Do not rush your pre-flight, and do not skip any items. Thanks Juan for bringing this to light. It's information like this that can save lives.
As a professional A&P mechanic, I cannot stress enough about how a single small detail overlooked may have catastrophic consequences. Such a simple thing, in the case of this accident, to have caused a fatal accident. Tragic and angering.
So here's a question for this learned group. Jason flew the Cougar from Michigan to PA left seat. Jason does not have a pilot's certificate, only a student pilots certificate. The A&P is also an MEI and this flight per Jason's statement in the video was being logged as an instructional flight. So if the gasket was missing on the right fuel cap, a required item per the 100hr/Annual checklist, then the aircraft was unairworthy. Therefore they were flying an unairworthy aircraft. A big no no in the FAA's book. If you recall this is the second time Jason has been found flying an unairworthy aircraft. The first was when he crashed the PA235. In that crash the FAA found a number of AD's had not been complied with in the PA235 and it was not airworthy. So question number 1. Is a student pilot under instruction required to perform all preflight checks? Or is it the PIC, in this case the A&P MEI? Or does it make a difference who does it so long as someone does it?? If the gasket was missed at the annual, I'm assuming it was missing for this flight. Question number 2. Did anyone sump the tanks before it left MI? Question number 3. So who in this case gets violated?? Is it the MEI as he is PIC? Is it Jason as he is the student who should be doing all he tasks required for flight? Or is it both?
Just shooting from the hip, I'd think the instructor would take the hit(s) because presumably the student "doesn't know better" at his current level so it's up to the instructor to "observe the student" and "provide the necessary correction" or something like that. As far as the missing gasket, it might fall under the same category as it did when the accident occurred. Who should have known or said something depends on who fueled the airplane (removed and replaced the cap) prior to departure and Jason may not have been aware there was supposed to be a gasket. I'm not really trying to "defend" Jason but he literally doesn't know what he doesn't know and that's perhaps the biggest problem here. But, ignorance isn't going to save him from FAA actions and lawsuits.
@@artt3165 While I would agree, I think it may have to go back to who was his primary CFI. The one that signed him off to solo. If there was a sign-off in Jason's log book showing he received instruction in preflight tasks then a good lawyer could probably argue that it was Jason's responsibility. I don't know and I'm not a lawyer or have ever played one on UA-cam. There is also the issue of who was PIC. Legally since Jason does not have an ME rating or a PPL for that matter the CFI would be. But how far does that go? Does there have to be an agreement between the CFI and Student as to who has what responsibility? I guess it would probably also depend on how hard they want to go after Jason, the CFI/MEI and all the other A&P's and IA's that signed off on this mess.
@@eagle2019 , It's a truly a good question. After I retired from the automotive field I was asked to get involved with some criminal law work as an expert witness. From that experience I learned he who has the deepest pockets is who the lawyers are going to focus on. My guess is they're going to hang this incident on Jason because he listed the plane as being the property of Mr. Dent Inc. That's probably where the most money is along with Jason personally. Maybe the companies the A&Ps work for after that. If there's a linkage and there's money to be had the lawyers have an interest in making that link. They want to insure recovery for themselves and their client(s) Jason may even lose the protection normally afforded a Corporation. because the judge may see him as "hiding" behind the Corporation. to avoid personal responsibility. If you set up a Corporation to make widgets and you start using in to do something other than make widgets the court may not like that and may "pierce the corporate veil" allowing the principles of the Corporation to be sued in their personal capacity. Then there's FAA sanctions which apply to everybody involved. I don't think Jason realizes just how big a flaming pile of poo he's standing in. Keep fighting the good fight against the fan boys! I haven't flown in probably 25 years (GA) and I forgot more about flying at this point then most to Jason's fans have ever learned.
@@artt3165 Agree 100% with all you points. Like you said I don't think Jason is aware of the shit storm that is coming his way. If you look up every one of the airplanes he purchased they are all registered to Mr. Dent, including the Cougar Sam died in. They are going to have a field day with him!
That's crazy. Testing the fuel for water is one of the first things your instructor teaches you to do.
Sounds like "Get-er-there"itis ruled/ruined the guy's day. Never cut corners and always allow yourself time even in routine flights.
That's been my experience too, I've had 5 lessons in a helicopter and the instructor has checked the fuel before ever start up. As a car mechanic if I suspect water in a fuel tank I had a small quantity of methylated spirits which allows the water the mix with the fuel and then be flushed through the system without causing too many issues, do aircraft people use the same method for dealing with water in fuel?
Yep, EVERY flight!!!
Presence of particulates, correct grade of fuel (by color) and presence of water. That's what i was trained to look for. Maybe you need to ask for your money back.
@@darylwalford8697 pretty sure that's a no for aircraft. I guess you would continue to take samples from the tank sample valve, as Juan did near the start of the video until no water was in the sample.
I guess if you found significant water you would want to find where it came from. (Blocked drain tube in the fuel filler cap recess, damaged/missing filler cap rubber washer or from the last fuel fill up).
I cannot believe that of all the students I've taught, I never thought to just pour some water out of a water bottle into a fuel strainer after taking a sample. That positive visual... here, THIS is what you're looking for, THIS is what you don't want to see... what a valuable teaching aid! I fly with a student on Sunday and even though he's far enough along to be just about ready for his PPL check ride, you can bet I'm taking a minute for that demonstration. Wow, WOW, I am humbled. Thank you so much, Juan!
I used to take a few water drops from the trailing edge to make sure - my instructor almost got a heart attack when I showed her the glass with water. She didn't relax till I told what I had done and why - you can't see if it is a glass of fuel or a glass of water.
The upside down meniscus was interesting too!
Very few instructors do that. But last year, our maintenance chief showed it to a couple of interested renting people, and "what the heck am I looking at? I never thought I was to look for THIS" was written all over our faces!
The DPE I had on my private check ride did that to me while I was doing my preflight, it’s one thing to hear about, but to actually see is a very good example that you won’t forget
Very good!! My CFI took me into the hangar many times to look at these practical issues that could come up and I am thankful for it!
In 1992 I was flying pipeline patrol in a Cessna 182 RG for a large pipeline company. I had stopped in Greensboro North Carolina overnight and left the airplane out as there was no room in the hangar. There was a very heavy rain storm that night probably three or 4 inches. Before my flight that next day I started sumping the tanks. This particular year model of Cessna had recessed fuel caps in the top of the wing. To my surprise, it took almost an hour to empty the water out those fuel tanks that day. I had a mechanic come out and verify that I had cleared out all the water. I ran the airplane for a while on the ground to make sure all fuel was out of the lines. I was almost 2 hours late to get to work on the pipeline. but it saved my life that day. My company replaced those recessed fuel tanks within two weeks. All the other patrol planes were changed as well. You just can’t take that kind of thing for granted.
@jamesmcquire5312. Ah yes the dreaded Cessna killer caps!! Those caps were responsible for a lot of deaths. All have been replaced with Service Kits supplied by Cessna.
We had three Cessna 182s that we used for pipeline patrol. All of them had that fuel cap. Especially when you’re flying 200 to 500 feet above the ground all day long. You don’t have a lot of options if the engine fails.
Pipeline companies making money hand over fist yet not paying for a helicopter? Sounds about right. What could a Cessna 182 possibly have to offer insofar as pipeline inspection, versus a helicopter? Nothing.
RG has bladder tanks as well so water can get trapped in creases. I know they have bladders, saw one being replaced.
Well said . good for you that you took the time to check. life is short but your dead forever .
I used to work the night shift for a company that had a fleet of piston twins that flew canceled checks for the Federal Reserve. We had our own fuel truck that would fuel up the aircraft during the day that would be dispatched that night. One night a pilot came into the hangar to report that he was having trouble sumping the fuel tank because it kept showing water. I and another mechanic went out to investigate. Sure enough we kept getting water out of the tanks. The fuel caps were good and it hadn't rained. We finally started siphoning right out of the tanks themselves and they were mostly water! We started to panic and stopped all other of our planes from taking off not knowing if some of them were contaminated as well. Come to find out the fuel truck had not been properly checked , there was a large amount of water in the fuel truck and it was a close call that night that no one was killed.
In other words, it doesn't have to be Rebuild Rescue (as a team or program) at fault, but it could be the airport's fuel truck? That said, I don't get why Sam would not check his fuel quality? It just doesn't seem like something he would miss, but I guess he did as sadly the events that followed are irreversible. In the end, the pilot is always the final person who has to check the airplane and is fully responsible for the state of it.
It is a very sad loss because as far as I saw the man had a heart of gold.
@@LogiForce86 The fuel truck could have been contaminated. Or not. Either way it doesn't matter. It's just simple laziness and sloppiness that turned a rare Cougar into Coke cans and that careless, rusty pilot into worm food. I have zero sympathy nor tolerance for this garbage.
Water can enter every day via condensation. In fact, there is water in your car's fuel tank right now. You're oblivious to this fact, and fat dumb & happy that your car will still start and run. This threat is mitigated by the fact that your car stays on the ground, and most people keep their fuel tank near full (which wards off room for condensation).
You cannot get away with this ignorance and inattention in aviation. You must have a mitigation plan for expected and unexpected threats.
Water can enter via rainfall or leaky fuel caps. Condensation. Just assume it's there, and sump for it to check. It's typical human desire to push the blame off on someone else like the FBO/fuel truck/line boy. However, it's just as likely there was water in the tanks the entire week before the flight while they were busy cranking out (pencil whipping?) all the maintenance work. The investigators found water in the fuel supply and that is damning. Proper fuel sumping and interior/exterior inspections are important.
But proper procedures are boring, and don't generate clicks and ad views. Nail-biter, big-money deadlines, and blonde haired social influencers with low-cut tube tops draw attention. But they are in way over their heads. These influencers should stay home to do their make-up and fashion show. Not fly cross country in a high-performance airplane with avionics they don't understand.
Stay in a Cessna 172. Stop crashing all the Bonanzas, I'd like to buy one before they're all wrecked. Thanks.
Barons or Chieftains?😁
@@LogiForce86 "but it could be the airport's fuel truck" It's possible, but the report stated the right-wing fuel cap was missing its gasket. It's more likely that was the source of the water and debris intrusion.
@deathk26 Likely a contributing factor but not the main culprit, I think. Because they would have had issues 1 month ago if so, when they flew it, cross country, to the "rescue hangar" as they call it. Which was preceded by a test flight by a certified test pilot and twin engine flight instructor. Which accompanied Jason on his flight home to get his twin engine flight hours in towards becoming a twin engine pilot.
Once home, they parked inside, as far as I know. At this point, it is highly unlikely to accumulate enough water into the tank to cause catastrophe. Unless the roof was leaking straight onto the tank cap.
Thanks for the good reporting Juan. Having done rescues and rebuilds for many years, I can attest that it often takes months and the thousands of dollars to get such an old and neglected aircraft not just airworthy, but safe and reliable, and during that time you are a test pilot.
Water contamination was a major issue on several used aircraft we purchased, worst was a Cessna 206 on amphibious floats I bought from a guy who had bought it cheap in Alaska and had to dead stick it here in Oregon. We found a lot of water in the strainer water in the bladder wing tanks, after flushing the tanks and cleaning the strainer and running smooth I deemed it ok for a test flight around the patch, but on downwind fuel flow/pressure started fluctuating, the engine ran rough and quit on short final, and I just managed to dead stick it.
Again we found the strainer full of water and again drained the wing tanks flushed the system with alcohol/methanol mix and after about 10mins of circling over the airport at 3500ft, the engine again rand rough and and quit. I was able to keep it running for a bit with Hi-Boost on the fuel pump by forcing fuel past the water in the fuel strainer but at about 1500ft the engine quit completely, and again I dead sicked it in.
My AI found the strainer again full of water and my use of the fuel boost also filled the fuel spider, engine pump screen and injector lines with water as well as drowned the plugs with water.
The AI and two A&P's again flushed the wing tanks and cleaned the fuel system and my AI was so confident that couldn't be any water in the system volunteered to ride right seat. We Circled over the airport, this time at 5,500ft and after another 15 mins I got my third practice doing a 206 floatplane dead stick on land. Again, we found the strainer and plugs drowned with water.
Just then the late, great Cessna factory mechanic and test pilot (Harold Hayes some of you may recall) walked-up, I told him the story, and Harold asked: "did you drain the belly header tanks?" The trio of mechanics looked puzzled and my AI said: "there ain't no belly drains Harold!" Harold looked under the wing struts and said: "Well that's one that left the factory without the holes for the drains" Harold removed the pilot's seat pulled the carpets and an inspection plate, and with his inspection mirror said: "Well there's your problem, it has no drains, cuz this one didn't put the drain holes in the belly skin".
We hole-sawed a pair of access holes, cut the safety wire on the header tank sump drains, and drained out about 5gals of water. Harold said that a few 206's with the float kit left the factory without the drain holes in the belly and an AD or SB was never issued. For those flying 206s, 207s and 210s, it's important to check the header tanks as well as part of every pre-flight.
WATER COUNTER-MEASURE FOR 206/210s:
On that 206 I and a couple of later 206s / 210's I used in Alaska where water is a problem, I removed the factory strainer-drain pull that was under the oil filler door, ordered an older version interior Cessna strainer drain cable and installed in under the instrument panel, and had my IA do a field 337 for it, so water could be drained out of the strainer in flight if required. I know there was an SB to install remove the in-cabin strainer drain due to the possibility of a corroded cable jamming and leaking fuel in flight but I figure water contamination is a greater risk.
I later bought a 210 once that had set outside for over a year on the northern Californian coast, that a respected AI just completed a ferry permit for. It had those flush fuel caps that the hydraulic pressure of raindrops drive right through, so I asked how much water he drained out. He said "No water the tanks are full" I said" "can't be there has to be water in it" he sumped the main tanks and a light blue liquid came out and he said: "See 100LL, no water" I took a smell and it did smell a bit like old stale 100LL but sloshed like water so I dumped it on the ground and it beaded-up like water.
After draining water for about an hour, the wing tanks contained were not full to the caps, but held only 30gal of fuel, the rest, (about 50gal) was water, that had been setting so long with the fuel, the blue dye from the fuel colored the water a light shade of blue.
Unlike the 206, however, the 210's header tanks were full of fuel, and the engine ran fine, even during run-up, but if I had attempted to depart I would have not got far and ended up in the trees.
Wow 😮! This is great to know! My dad owned a 210 over 20 years ago and I have flown several 206’s over the years but don’t remember the header tank drains. Glad you are here to tell the story.
@@CarDocBabaPhilipo Exactly! growing up my Dad was a Cessna dealer and we had a lot of 210s and 206s and I never knew they had header tanks that needed to be drained. As I recall, the header tanks not in the POH fuel system schematic either! I just did an image search for 210 fuel system and the diagram shows no header tanks, but if you search for "Cessna 210 Fuel Header / Tank Reservoir" you see used ones listed. Proof that they do exist.
There may be something in the service manual that requires the header tanks to be drained occasionally, but who ever does it?
I bought and sold at least 20 210s and several 206's, and some had quick drains in the header tanks, others safety wired A&N plugs. I typically replaced the plugs with quick drains and put note page in the forward of the POH about the drains, and hand noted the pre-flight section to include the belly drains.
As I recall at least 6 of the 20 or so 210's I bought and checked, had water in the header tanks.
@@CarDocBabaPhilipo Exactly! My dad was a Cessna dealer and I grew up flying 206s, and 210s and I was not aware the fuel header tanks needed to be drained, or could be drained. Looking at fuel system schematics from the POH online for a couple models of 206 and 210, I see no mention of the header tanks, but do see many images of salvaged header tanks as proof they exist, and the different configurations with different drain locations.
There may be something in the Service Manual about draining the header tanks occasionally but if so, does anyone ever do it?
I've seen some models with header tanks that have quick drains and others that have safety wired plugs, and as I encountered, some might not even have access holes to drain the tanks. After that 206 encounter, I had about 20 210s and several 206s, and about 6 had some water in the header tanks.
On several, I placed a note in the POH regarding the header tanks and hand scribbled a note in the pre-flight checklist about the header tanks.
Did Cessna ever issue an AD or SB for the header tanks?
@@johnnyutah1986 Not that I know of, but there's a lot of FAA issued letters, SBs and a few AD related to all high-wing Cessnas and fuel systems.
I just did a search and didn't see anything specifically related to the lack of drain holes but did find an interesting thread
'Cessna 206 Fuel System Problems Flightist Start date Sep 15, 2006 - Flightinfo'
talking about the same Issue I encountered, and additional vapor lock issues involving the header tanks, loss of power on takeoff I've encountered on 200 sires Cessnas and a P337.
I encountered this Typically after a hot shutdown such as for refueling, long taxis or holds for takeoff I attributed to fuel injector line heating and vapor lock. On the P337 and one Turbo 206, I found a high-power run-up just before take-off to flush out hot fuel in the engine compartment typically eliminated it, but it typically occurred early in the take-off roll, but on especially hot days I had it happen just a rotation, so it could have been header tank related.
That’s the first time I’ve seen Pete on your channel for quite a long time. He certainly is growing up.
Handsome young man, as well !
More often than not the fruit does not fall far from the tree 💯
🙃@@Lt_Tragg
He is growing fast. He has his father's eyes. And his father is teaching him how to use them! Good man.
@@Maggie-tr2kdAll due respect to Juan, but my first thought was "That kid must have a very good looking mother."
I am a 62 year old aviation enthusiast. My brother in law had a Cessna 172 back in the early 70's, and I can remember the entire pre-flight procedure now. Skipping ANY item MAY always be a problem. In this case, this gentleman bet his life on less than 5 minutes of a standard procedure and lost. IF ONLY ONE LIFE IS SAVED BY LEARNING THIS LESSON, THEN IT HAS SERVED A PURPOSE!! RIP.
BTW Juan- your son really is growing up fast, but has a heck of a good teacher in you!
I have no doubt that many will remember this, and it will resonate. It will save lives. Lessons of the past are often forgotten.
Your flag is upside down. That’s disrespectful to the soldiers that paid for your freedom in blood. Please course correct.
The upside-down flag is a well-known indicator that the person flying the flag in this manner is in grave danger or distress. @@jeffforbess6802
🤔taking 5 minutes VS eternity. How sad
@@jeffforbess6802 I'm sure he'll flip the flag into the proper orientation in 261 days.
During my multi engine training in Southern Calif., in a 1958 Apache, during pre flight I got at least a half cup of water out of each tank. I drained an extra amount from each tank for good measure. During flight in a right hand turn I noticed fuel siphoning from the cap. (they used old Thermos style plug fuel cap and it had rained two days earlier. We elected to land, fuel checked the tanks again and found more water. Again drained extra amount of fuel after no water found. Proceeded to take off and as I herd two misses I pulled throttles back and parked the airplane. Again finding more water. We realized the tanks have several low spots and each time the aircraft was turned, water would slosh to the drain which was a rib or two over. I received points for emergency procedures that day and learned a very valuable lesson!!! That was 1973.
(That SAME Apache showed up on your video at the Luscombe gathering at Grass Valley a couple years ago. I played that video over ten times to make sure it was the same Apache. It was beautiful and in amazing condition compared to when I flew it.)
Holy Crap! Great job! I would be TERRIFIED to try to flay that airplane ever again! How would you know, for certain, that there is no more water in the system?
Was this El Monte's Apache N6EF???
WAs this El Monte's apache N6EF
@@rb2287 let a mechanic look at it. There are ways to get *all* the water out of there.
After you get the water out go to the wingtip and lift it up and down multiple times to rock the wings. This will get the water in the pockets to flow to the lowest point. Check again for water and repeat if necessary.
Well said Juan! My son bought a C152 that needed service but waited for parts, sitting outside for more than 2 months during a springtime in Seattle. We got the call that the plane was ready and "airworthy" please come and fly it home. As a CFI I consistently taught that any airplane just out of maintenance required an in depth walkaround. We started to sump the tanks, and then sump some more, and .....more. Using the "GATS" jar we took out about 1 1/4 gallons of water out of both tanks and the gascolator. At that point I called a stop; we notified the A&P to drain the tanks and clean the fuel system. When questioned as to how he (A&P) was able to do a run up and the taxi test required he said he had no problem, the engine started and ran OK. "Anyway", he continued, "the flying part was our responsibility". We ordered new gas tank caps and found another A&P to work on that plane.
Hope you took steps to see that the first A&P didn't work on any more aircraft.
This isn't a case of an auto mechanic using an impact wrench on the oil drain plug and being dumb like that. Glad you were active and found it. Not all pilots do that, and get into trouble.
This reminds me of my dad showing me this so many times. I'm 66 now, and he was actually in his Piper Cub the day I was born. He always had an airplane, from that Cub to Cessna 140, Piper Cherokees, Cessna Cardinal RG, and his last and favorite, an old T-34B with navy trainer markings. When we flew together, whatever the craft, he monitored me checking the gas for water contamination. Such a treasure to see you sharing that with your son. Thanks Juan.
I hired a PA28 from an FBO in Florida around 20 years ago. I did a fuel drain check on both wing tanks, no obvious contaminants, but something wasn’t quite right on one tank. It was blue coloured and smelled like fuel, but something wasn’t right; even when tipping it onto the hot concrete where it evaporated (pre EPA days).
In a moment of good luck I took 1/2 sample from one wing tank and topped it off from the other - and found two liquids that didn’t mix!
I went back into the FBO with the split sample. They called an engineer who drained a washing up bowl full of water from the contaminated tank. The aircraft had been awaiting a replacement magneto and had sat outside for nearly two months before it had been fitted the day before, and the seal was damaged/worn. The aircraft had been ground run on the uncontaminated tank only.
I didn’t fly that day, and never went back to OBA to rent from them ever again.
If you think your fuel drain test isn’t correct, try mixing samples from different tanks and you may be surprised by the result - I WAS!
@synupps877 when the first gallon or so you take as a sample is all water there is nothing to see. It had been sat for so long the water smelt like 100LL and maybe some of the colour had dissolved out too? It was pure luck I tried this, better than finding out during the taxi out and run up - always switch tanks before you depart!
I'm very glad your around to tell the tale . . . . . I'm NOT a pilot ( as much as I would love to be able to pass the physical ) . . . But ?!? I do pride myself on learning new stuff and applying that knowledge to my Automotive applications . . . . Water in the fuel is never good .
Ham and eggers
When I was 15 back in 1986 and I only took fuel from one tank in the tube, my father smacked me across the back of the head so hard it never occurred to me to not check both tanks ever again.
You have a Great and Wise father!!
Potentially a life-saving smack.
Getting a backhand from dad when I screwed up was something I later realized was dad’s way of helping me learn. I miss dad
Right! I had a similar experience as a kid
My Grandfather used to say teenage boys are like Mules, sometimes you got to smack them to get their attention, I learned a lot from him.
Regardless of the missing fuel cap seal,No one forced the pilot to rush and possibly skip his basic checks as well. Sad to see.
We'll see about that, the final report might turn up reasons that he was rushed that might reflect even worse on those folks.
@@SBBurzmali It still falls on the pilot flying, no matter how much the new owner wanted the plane. Don't forget what IMSAFE means.
Not familiar with that combination of letters?
It's an acronym used for pilots to assess their physical and mental readiness before a flight:
ILLNESS, MEDICATION, STRESS, ALCOHOL, FATIGUE, EMOTION@@RevMarket
It's important to know that if you take a fuel sample and you have a significant amount of water, the water can fill your entire fuel sample vessel and you will not see any separation of layers. If you have a sample completely filled with water, all you have to do is fail to notice the absence of blue tint, and you can miss the contamination. Take your time and make absolutely certain you have a good pure sample of fuel and nothing else. Smell it, look at it, pour some out and make sure it doesn't bead up.
That’s a dam shame, as a former instructor I was a fanatic about checking for water. I used to get complaint from the school I taught at sighting that the plane is refilled so often because of use that it would never have water in it. But things like condensation fuel trucks with water, bad filters on the fuel truck or whatever… spilled gas on a tarmac is cheep insurance.
Very first thing I ever learned about flying, was from an old airport out in Utah. A little private field, mostly used for skydivers, called "Alta Airfield".
I was only 10 at the time, and was just there making a nuisance of myself, or so I felt, as I was a gopher for the long-time mechanic & pilot out there. One of his first words of advice he gave me, I've never forgotten. He basically said, "Wanna become human paste really fast? Forget all the basics you've learned, and get yourself in a hurry. In life, many things can become second nature, because they don't have any real consequences attached to them- Flying does. There's no curbs you can pull over to, if you forget your basics. The WILL come back and end you. NEVER skip anything. Even once you feel you got 'em all down pat.".
He was a grouchy old guy, but I always looked up to him. Looking back today, it was for good reason. That advice works for more than just flying, and I've never forgotten it. He was a good man.
You make an excellent point. Much of what I learned while undergoing flight training has carried over to the rest of my life, as well the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared!" Friends often think I'm being pedantic.
Being in a hurry has often gotten me in trouble. My thinking isn't always the best when I'm rushed.
Same. I make stupid mistakes when I rush. I have deliberately tried to slow myself lately to prevent that.
He obviously did not use a checklist. SMH
Get-There-itis. A deadly disease.
See, you're not thinking. When I make a rushed error, I blame my wife - sorry, I meant my ex-wife. @@KB3AOL
In aviation, the more you are rushed, the slower or more deliberately you need to take things to make sure nothing is missed.
Teaching young Pete some of the important safety requirements of aviation will educate a lot of pilots, young and old, experienced and inexperienced. Smart move, Professor Browne!
It's also a bit of a science lesson!
I mean, the water is heavier than fuel/oil part.
@@straybullitt Well 100LL anyways, never make assumptions is an even more important lesson.
I'm not a pilot, but have flown many times with my friend who is a CFI. He does a water sump drain test before *every* single flight, regardless of whether of the amount of time before the previous flight and whether or not new fuel has been taken on. I can't imagine why an experienced pilot would skip this crucial preflight step, regardless of whether they were in a hurry or not. Based on the NTSB preliminary report an other reports, it's remarkable how many corners were cut prior to this tragic accident.
Perhaps there was a camera crew at the destination airport all geared up to capture video of a whole bunch of back slapping . "They said we'd never succeed with this project"
This case is a big mess of a huge amount of unprofessional behavior. This could only run into problems. Rebuild Rescue needs badly to overthink their game, they are playing. And learn a lot more about the habits of aviation. Paying with life is a no go. But also Sam should have known better dealing with this plane. He decided to board it, fly it, obviously without proper inspection? 🤔 sad unnecessary tragic case.
Very good and highly professional review on this incident Juan. Perfect. 👍
Juan, your demonstration at the end of showing the fuel tester with fuel and water was awesome! I remember seeing pictures in flight school but that isn't something the laymen most likely has seen. Keep up the good work!. As a fellow ATP, your message about aviation not being forgiving of some reality tv build for likes and subs is extremely truthful. I hope people who aren't properly trained and rated take a valuable lesson from this. Airplanes can be and sometimes are, less forgiving than the North Atlantic ocean for mariners.
Hi, Pete, your dad is teaching you well. Not a pilot or in aviation. I am an occupational health and safety professional and your videos speak volumes to the safety world.
And you are doing the Lord's work!!! john
was a line guy for a major FBO. every tank at the fuel farm and truck was sumped every night. the amount of QC we did and the results were recorded, you as a pilot & A&P are well aware of the record keeping. as far as pilots checking, no idea. we got most of our fuel problems, water, from 100LL. one G-4 celebrity's pilot used to ask to see a sump for the fuel truck, mostly when he was headed to Europe. i personally never flew a plane i didn't use a fuel tester on.
Smart idea. NEVER throw caution to someone else’s job when it’s YOUR life that is on the line.
Whenever I tell my wife about a Blankolirio video, I always preface it with "Pete's dad said." I've done this ever since Pete did his report on one of the Wright brothers.
If I say "Juan Brown said. . ." she won't know who I'm talking about.
*Keep up the good work Pete's Dad.*
In the 1950s, my father started his commercial airline career with West Coast Airline on the DC3. Before moving on to the Fairchild F27, he would amass over 10,000 hrs. in The DC3, 3000hrs as copilot and the rest as captain. Father would often relate how critical attitude and air speed were, especially if you lost an engine. He often stressed to me that upon loss of an engine, you absolutely must feather the dead engine and level the wings and equally important center the ball. He told of one hot August night, leaving Pasco Washington right at dusk with a full load of passengers heading to Portland Oregon when the left engine blew one of the cylinders punching a hole in the cowling so he could observe the piston flailing about and sparks flying. He said we were about 400ft feet AGL the gear just pulled up flaps at 15 degrees and climbed at about 400 ft/min. Our rate of climb went to zero, and I firewalled both engines. Tried to gain some altitude and any airspeed possible. Told the copilot to declare an emergency as we began a very slow, gradual left turn. Shut down and feathered the left engine after about two minutes. Again, I focused on centering the needle and minimal bank, letting the good engine slowly pull us around. We reached a maximum of 550ft AGL as we lined up, and I lowered the gear once we were descending and had the runway made. The biggest thing back then was airmanship. There was no room or power for mistakes. The margins were so small.
I’m surprised that he elected to turn into the dead engine, it’s usually recommended to turn away from the dead engine, keeping the working engine on the inside of the turn.
Thats a pretty cool story. I've always thought about the pilots back in the old days before electronic fly aid, GPS, radar any of that. These were some amazing pilots. Can you imagine flying across the Pacific Ocean, L.A to Hawaii or Across the Atlantic, New York to London back then. Holy cow that would be pretty humbling I'm sure.
From the report the aircraft was under positive control, needless maneuvers would be detrimental to the primary goal...getting the aircraft safely on the ground!@@Pete-tq6in
I see the latest RR/Jason video from last Saturday has been taken down with no notice. Hmmmmmmm
No mid-week release either.
@@lesterawilson3 i hear the crickets
SMDH. My A&P recommended replacing my Cherk's fuel cap gaskets at last annual. I ran down to the local Aircraft Spruce and picked up a full set for, IIRC, $3.50 each. Replacing them took about 10 minutes.
For want of a nail, etc etc.
Cheapest airplane part EVER!
Sad to see these senseless accidents week after week. Thanks for giving us the inside scoop and hopefully preventing these types of accidents in the future by building awareness of simple yet fatal mistakes…
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your content. This one is a useful reminder that if you are in a hurry to fly you are in a hurry to die. Sad loss of a pilot and airframe.
being a AME, aircraft maintenance person,i have worked on plenty of aircraft refurbs,,,GA maintenance is very expensive,no expence can be spared. rushing a job will be a disaster waiting to happen.
If you don't run checklists it doesn't really matter if it was a UA-cam channel who put the plane together or some official mechanic. Personally I would double check since you know the aircraft's history. For those who love MSFS, in the PA24 Comanche 250 of A2A the fuel contamination is actually simulated as well and you can drain the fuel on the walk around. It actually keeps track on how long you didn't fly the plane and what the conditions are when you stalled it and where. Pretty aweseome.
I've seen two planes take off with water in the tanks and that pop Juan mentioned is exactly what I heard too as they lifted off.
Yep, lawn mower engines do the same. Key difference is your mower wont fall out of the sky and take you with it. Its sad so many people are in such a hurry and putting themselves in danger without even knowing it.
@@danfarris135 Themselves and people on the ground.
@@darryljorden9177this is the most important part of the equation in my opinion. Putting innocent people on the ground at risk is criminal.
My 1929 car pops regardless of water in the tank haha
New engines new props new instruments.... Same old gas cap... ???
Watch the build videos to see how sketchy this annual was performed and the absolute minimum work being done to this plane. Shadetree valve job (lapped the valves on one cylinder to get compression back to just below minimum), etc.
Auto-mechanic mentality
Even worse, same old tanks. Didn't even flush them because you know fuel gets funky over time. The guy's a shade tree auto mechanic dabbling in aircraft rebuilding. I first saw him in a "will it run" involving a late model Chevy Corvair found in a barn. Bad fuel doesn't cause cars to fall out of the sky, but he bet his friend's life on this same mentality. Then again, his friend did himself in by not doing the preflight and runup checks. Isn't inspecting the fuel part of inspecting the plane?
A real question is how did this plane just pass its Annual Inspection without a gasket on the fuel cap? or was it removed afterwards and someone forgot to replace it?
@@brettallenthomaslike car inspections, not all annuals are created equal. Some people will just sign the book.
It's crazy that you mentioned how aviation is not conducive to reality TV shows (not exact quote). When I was banner towing, we were contacted by a reality TV producer and I was all kinds of excited to be a part of it! I never understood why the company owner/boss didn't like the idea of it. We got as far as creating a really nice intro, but the producer said "it's not life-threatening enough for reality TV." I proposed we do some things that skirted the FAA regs to make it look more deadly than it is, but that's when the boss pulled out. Now almost 15 years later I'm glad he did that, cause it really could have put all of us in serious danger, even with all safety precautions adhered to behind the scenes.
'Reality TV' - that title is half accurate. The second half.
Aviation done right is supposed to be boring. When things get exciting, chances are that people die.
"A superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid situations where he has to demonstrate his superior skills!"
You won’t find me turning wrenches on aircraft on video. Lawyers are already going to tear you apart (even if you were in the right) in front of a jury who knows nothing of aviation.
Feel for those mechanics, but they put themselves in a situation where they are now going to be scrutinized.
Your boss was a real one for pulling the plug on something potentially dangerous even though his employees were happy to go through with it.
@@Dovorans Actually he was just jealous that she was really hot and I was partying in the clubs with her every night while she was in town (that's how i met her). 🤣
NASA coined a term for when preventable accidents were precipitated by taking shortcuts. The term is called the normalization of deviance. Unfortunately, that appears to be the case here.
Thanks Juan. Its not always rain that would get in the tank. In humid areas it can be condensation from moisture in the air that ends up in the bottom of the tank. The fuel evaporates and reduces the temperature to below the dewpoint and the moisture in the air space above it condenses out. So topping up the tanks before putting the plane to bed was what I was taught. Knowing this I've even found this happening in my lawnmower fuel tank. That seal is very important.
All of the flights from Knoxville to Philadelphia that evening left 5-15 minutes late. Being in a hurry never pays off with aviation.
And you can always get another flight. Might need to pay for a hotel, just consider that a learning cost for planning ahead.
@@nitehawk86 Flying *any* aircraft for even an hour is so expensive that having to pay for single hotel night is just peanuts in the overall budget.
" Haste makes waste" someone said that to me long ago and I have found it true.
Water in fuel, such a fundamental issue. Completely familar with this, regularly check fuel on an S2G Grumman Tracker as part of the maintenance crew. The Tracker is a flying aircraft in an aviation museum here in Australia, maintained and flown by a completely volunteer crew.
Would that be Fleet Air Arm Museum at Nowra NSW?
@@mikenewman4078 Hi Mike. The Tracker used to be operated at Nowra by Navy, but Navy disposed of it around 2019, now owned and operated by the Historic Aircraft Restoration Society at Shellharbour Airport. All most all the crew, flying and maintenance are ex Navy.
During takeoff one day, I saw a fuel cap on the runway. We called all company aircraft back to land; one of the twins was flying with an open fuel tank.
I once had a Katana taxi past me with the fuel cap dangling on the chain. With lots of hand signals I got the instructor to get the student to shut down the a/c. They never said "thanks", just went on like I being an alarmist or perhaps was slowing them down or something.
You were slowing them down and taking valuable time from airtime. You also likely saved a life or 2 or more. If not that day on another. Pretty sure the student never messes that up on their preflight ever. Well done@@shermancouch9964
@@shermancouch9964 Wow! That's crazy... 99.99% of pilots would be very appreciative that you pointed it out to them.
@ingZulu - I was surprised too. ... I once landed a Grumman after a 3 hour flight, and the cargo door was flapping as I taxied in. I had failed to lock it during the pre-flight work. No harm, no foul, but embarrassing. That being said, I'd rather someone on the ground noticed it and stopped me before departure.
This is a good reminder. I was a flight instructor during the eighty’s and ninety’s . I had a student with a brand new Piper Archer which unfortunately was not hangared. Before one of our flights, my student was looking at a fuel sample and thought something didn’t look right. It was pure water, no separation line. We pulled 7 full samples of water before we got any fuel at all. The fuel cap condition appeared fine but definitely leaked.
Piper sent a new cap under warranty and the problem never occurred again.
@blancolirio_2 Excellent content and analysis.
How does one tell you have a problem if the test tube is nothing but water? There won't be a separation line.
@@furyofbongos It’s not easy to notice with a casual glance that’s for sure. But I always taught folks to hold the sample up to a light colored surface to observe the blue tint of the 100 LL fuel. Pure water will appear clear. However, don’t make the mistake of holding it up to blue sky, that can make the water appear blue as well. A white plane or checklist works well.
@@RichardHumphreys-t1p if you put a white-backed sticker (like a mailing label) on the side of your fuel tester, you will always have a clean white surface right there to compare the fuel color to.
@@furyofbongos Smell it.
I got a call from my dad one night. He had run out of gas, grabbed a gas can he had stored in the trunk, dumped in only to figure out it was water! The car was a 1955 Buick station wagon and the tank had a drain plug. I drained it until I was sure it was mostly gas, dumped in some real gas but it wouldn't run. I towed him home and when I took the top of the carb off you could see beads of water blocking both jets - the water would not flow through. Very sad loss of Sam and I'm sure Jason is broken by this tragedy. It shows how quickly an oversight can get you and how critical every step in a preflight is. RIP Sam!
I was taught to check for water in the fuel every time I took a plane up. This was applicable even if the plane had just returned from a flight. We also had to wait 15 minutes after refueling and then check for water. It's such an easy thing to do.
It just dawned on me that this simple example of what water looks like in your fuel tester should be mandatory as part of PPL training. While I did know what to look for, there's an awful lot of young people getting their PPL who have never seen it.
I once took a promotional lesson to see whether I like getting my PPL. The instructor took it very seriously to show me how to check the fuel for water. Hence I thought this is a routine everybody learns to do and adhere to.
Thats about as sad as it gets , huh ? . . . . . .. NEVER SEEN IT :--((
I thought every instructor shows this to their students.
Also, even if there's no layers, be very sure that what you're looking at is actually fuel and not 100% water.
@@brandyballoonif you are unsure put a small amount on a paper towel. If it is 100LL the fuel will evaporate and the paper towel will dry quickly. If it is jet fuel or water the paper towel will stay wet. I saw an IA demonstrate this at a Wings seminar on Avfuel decades ago.
Where is the guy from the last video where he commented that Rebuild Rescue were the safest of safe and you replied "Are you an A&P?". I want to see him go for round 2.
Thinking same unfortunately. A lot of shade was thrown at this channel and JB personally and unnecessarily.
@@ronaldscott781 those responses just identify those folks as part of the problem. There is no room in aviation for people who can't ask themselves the question "Am I the problem?".
@@KaldekBoch Perfectly said. Ego over analytics is deadly.
No you aren't allowed to be mean to them, it would be "disrespectful to Sam's memory". I would have thought that giving an unsafe plane to Sam to fly would be disrespectful to Sam, but the believers this was probably just a one-in-a-million chance so you can't blame RR.
Please refer to my comment above for some possible missing information that may explain a few things that weren’t explained in the short preliminary by the NTSB
I found water in my 150 trainer once. Very eye opening to realize how so much worse my day could have gone, the worst that day went was I didn’t get to fly. And I’m here to tell you about it.
I enjoy many UA-cam aviation channels that take the viewer along for the journey. I don’t care for channels that do things just for the content. You can’t work on aircraft like you would an old car! Aviation is the ultimate realm of the old adage “Do you want it done fast or do you want it done properly.”
Well said!
It's good to see Pete again. Teaching and showing him a critical step in pre-flight safety. Stay safe out there Juan.
Pilots should also check to make sure fuel caps are tightened after a third party pumps fuel. I worked at a community airport in college and a jet that bought fuel from the local FBO took off and ran out of fuel after the left wing tank cap became dislodged and fuel was sucked out of the tank. The pilots were not paying attention to their fuel quantity as they had just filled the tanks. Very important to make sure fuel caps are tight, but most pilots don't check them when they are closed.
You’re absolutely right. It’s not house flipping. It’s not even land speed automobile building.
I’m thinking the only thing more dangerous to build in a rushed, monetarily constrained manner is submerged vessels.
YES...and I get your point! Has there ever been a final report on the "submerged vessel" accident?
@mipmipmipmipmip They do endanger the divers sent to recover the remains though, which is unfortunate.
@@LantanaLiz And MILLIONS of taxpayers money to try and recover the remains of some rich risk takers..
It's hard to put to words, but the restoration channel set off all kinds of red flags in the back of my head when I'd see their videos. A gut feeling.
Rebuilding planes for medical charity flights is good, and that's where they draw people in- but the reality TV format, despite not being contracted with a network and no obligation to be that way?
Clickbait thumbnails, titles, and editing?
Taking on multiple projects instead of carefully focusing on 1, MAYBE 2 at a time, so there's always additional things to ask for donatons for?
The unrealistic rushed schedules, despite the safety risks and possible consequences?
And when we're given reassurances, it's from the channel itself, specifically the content creator. Not his certified partners, at least from the videos I kept coming across. You know how police departments do an "internal investigaton" and clear themselves of any wrong-doing? Yeah, that's the vibe I get from the channel. I know the FAA has done their own investigations, that's a separate cup of tea. I'm just talking about the defensive and self-congratulating tone of the videos.
Maybe the style of videos just isn't my cup of tea, but they've always made me feel uneasy. Aviation is more serious than house flipping and barn finds.
finishing repairs on an aircraft the day for delivering is just asking for trouble. That customer probably thanks on his knees that airplane wasn't delivered to him...
While waiting at self-serve pumps, I've seen pilots refuel, sump the tank, and blast off. It makes no sense to sump the tank when you've just refueled. Indeed, in a March 2023 AOPA article titled "Don't rush to sump," Terrie Mead says it's a better practice to wait at least fifteen minutes to let the contaminants settle before sumping. Depending on the size of the tank, it can take even longer. If I'm doing it wrong, then I guess I will have to change my ways after fifty-three years.
As a former crew chief on U.S. Army Cobra AH-1G's, I did a lot of fuel samples on the flight line! Good example on the difference water/fuel!
Not only can water get into the fuel tank with a bad cap seal, but you can also siphon fuel overboard in flight. I owned a 1960 Cessna 210 for a few years. Toward the last few years I owned it the fuel consumption seemingly went up drastically. I complained to the mechanic, but he just said that I was not leaning it properly in flight. It turned out to be a bad fuel cap seal that was allowing fuel to be siphoned overboard while in flight.
Juan I wasn't following that channel rebuild rescue but after your video I went and watched a few videos on this cougar. And in the first flight to Michigan and during that flight they mentioned about moisture coming out of the left and right wing. Now whether this had anything to with the accident I'm not sure. However in the accident flight his slot was delayed 2 times he had plenty of time to do the proper checks. I drove an 18 wheeler for 20 years and even I did a pre trip inspection to mak sure everything is ok to go it's sad that a person especially of his experience didn't take a few minutes while waiting to check..just sad I enjoy your channel ty for all you do!!!
My dad got his private ticket in the mid 60s. I distinctly remember that he had a laminated walk around checklist on a clipboard with an attached grease pencil. I also remember that trim tab operation was part of the list because he would have me run the trim while he was outside checking. I'm not sure how he did this when alone but I'm 100% certain he did. I remember being nervous when he had the J3 because I had to upfront and couldn't see him and the fact it was so slow. It seemed to hang in the air.
After the J3 he got a 150 with his buddy. I remember my Mom wouldn't allow both my sister and I go with him together. It was one or the other. She said she didn't want to be left alone. She was afraid of flying and I don't remember her ever going up with my dad.
His last craft was a Cherokee which he owned until he died. I sold it for a stupid amount of money.
I love the way you ended your last sentence in your introduction, JB. That should be an ominous warning to all concerned.
Thanks for your update, time, and resources., as always.
Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏽🖖🏽
Hi Juan,
Great video as always, thanks for getting this up straight away.
I’m an Aeronautical Engineer with nearly 20 years experience and am around halfway through my PPL. My first ever lesson in the C152 during the pre-flight saw me find water on the engine fuel drain sample. It’s been drummed into me from day one to always do a fuel drain even if it has been checked on the first flight of the day.
My time flying RC Helicopters taught me about Methanol being hygroscopic and to pay careful attention to fuel contamination.
Ratty old fuel drain tubes which the plastic has gone crazed and off color also increases the risk of contamination being undetected.
Keep up the great work Juan.
Cheers
Achieved my first multi engine rating on a P30 Twin Comanchee 160hp engines. No counter rotating props, and offset tail highlighted the importance of identifying the critical engine and reduced effectivenes of left rudder when countering yaw. Airspeed below red line and blue line was identified as critical to achieving the next phase of the flight. Engine failure with airspeed below red line stop or controlled crash straight ahead. Airspeed after rotation and below blue line the aircraft is essentially a single engined aircraft unable to climb. Maintaing directional control and airspeed above vmca is paramount to the safe operation of the aircraft after the event. Failure to initiate the correct procedures will severly limit the possibility of a happy outcome.
Thank you, Juan. Water in the fuel... such a needless tragedy.
And debris also... Clearly a lack of care was put into preparing this old fuel system. Something anyone who has restored old vehicles would be well aware of after decades of non use.
@@volvo09 You are forgetting this aircraft sat for a max of two years. And the timing of the posting of the videos does not equal the time the project took. The actual process took several months. The timeline to finish it and fly it back to PA was all UA-cam-induced drama. Also, Sam and Jason flew the aircraft over 500 miles back to their home base AFTER it's annual. This post and others are either glossing over or completely ignoring these important points.
@@lloydeyler8608 exactly. At the end of the day a proper preflight was not done by the PIC. No reason to be bashing on the YT channel for this accident.
I live in a very rural place a commercial pilot had bought some sporting camps on our lake I talked to his wife one day we were talking about flying and I said I was really nervous to get my license she said a nervous pilot is better than an overconfident pilot I always remembered her words they both were old and retired wonderful wonderful people
With Basicmed, you have two requirements which must be satisfied. The Basicmed online course requirement is required every 2 years, while the Basicmed CMEC exam that you do with your doctor is required every 4 years. While he satisfied the Basicmed course requirement in July 2023, his most recent Basicmed exam was in August 2019. Thus he was out of current with the Basicmed exam, which means he was not medically legal to act as PIC at the time of the crash.
I just remembered something else from my pilot training days. I was thinking about how water might have entered the fuel system and I was thinking only about the missing gasket and water getting in by way of the gas cap without a gasket. But that is certainly NOT the only way water can enter the fuel system. The preliminary report said the Sam added 80 gals of fuel so the tanks must have been relatively empty. The best way to keep water out of the fuel system is to keep the tanks topped off. This prevent air saturated with moisture from condensing inside the tanks and depositing water in to the fuel system. So tanks low on fuel could have been the source of the water especially in the winter PA environment even inside a hangar.
James T Reason CBE came up with the notion of the Swiss Cheese model. His books/articles on human error make an interesting read.
The swiss cheese model is flawed.
Most of us have been in situations where we look back and think "How the hell did I just get away with that?"
What happened is all the holes lined up, we went through and the holes stayed lined up until we got out the other side.
The problems begin when the holes start closing up when you are part way through. If you are lucky they close up behind you if your not then you end up doing a Garfield onto a very unforgiving surface.
@@Agnemons You're re-imagining a different Swiss cheese analogy.
@@AgnemonsThe Swiss cheese model isn't flawed, it works just fine. But I think using cheese makes it harder to understand.
I'd say instead of cheese you should think of the slices as floors in a building under construction. If you're walking along on the top floor and someone's left a hole in the uncompleted floor, you'll get injured when hit the floor below. But if someone working on each floor has left a hole open in the same place, then you'll end up falling all the way to the basement and dead.
Absolutely spot on reporting Juan. From the time I started fly at age 13, fuel samples were a MUST, as was checking the caps and related gaskets on the high wing 150. On the SNJ-6, we used the green 100/130 and pulling the prop through several rotations was drilled in my head over 52 years ago. Check, recheck and check again. I’m curious if the plane was turning to the right (dead foot, dead motor), the left wing appeared to be separated at the wing root. I think you said there was no mention on if the propeller (either) was feathered. Solid reporting and I can’t believe how grown up Major Pete looks. Is he driving yet. Ha 😂
The demonstration at the end of this video will hopefully save lives. It's as clear as the difference between these two liquids.
RIP Sam. Thanks for your thoroughness Juan.
Your wise words regarding these UA-cam videos depicting “hurry-up” restorations and the number of accumulated “likes” is something to be considered by any would-be “internet influencer.” Thank you for pointing out the grim downside of failing to follow standard operating procedure and adherence to preflight checklists.
Nice fuel sample pongo Juan. 20 years as a usaf fuel systems mechanic and I never once use anything but a screw driver and a mason jar. 😮 keep up the good work, really like your videos.
They're cheap and available at every pilot shop.
Every little airplane out there has one of two types (for the most part) both like similar, one has a pin, the other two notches, most have a screw driver tip on the other side..
For those who don't know it. petroleum products like gasoline, jet fuel, etc are lighter than water. They float on top of water. Gasoline weighs 6 pounds per gallon. Water weighs eight pounds per gallon. Light plane fuel tanks hold more fuel than they can use. My Cessna 172 had two wing tanks that held 22 gallons each, but useful fuel was only 20 gallons. There is a reason for that two gallons of unusable fuel. The man doing the preflight forgot that.
It's been a very long time, but I have been a passenger with three different private pilots. I distinctly remember all three explaining their pre-flight checks (one was an instructor, so was used to explaining everything to students, one told me that talking out loud was his way of making sure he did everything, one probably more out of habit as a fairly new pilot and having to tell his instructor what he was doing). All three included a fuel check with a tool similar to the one Juan showed here. I also remember at least one of them tossing the sample on the ground to make sure it wasn't pure water - which wouldn't have that distinctive line in the sample container that we saw in the science experiment at the end. I can't imagine short cutting such an important pre-flight check.
Few years back I did a motorbike trip. After switching to reserve fuel, the engine stopped and i had to clean out the tank on the go, finding liters of rusty water. The fuel tank overflow hole was clogged, submerging the fuel cap in water during every rainfall and allowing it to leak past the seal.
Already had a hard time starting the bike in the morning, as the level of water must have been just above the normal fuel draw level. The whole reserve amount was pure water.
I'm not a pilot but it sounds like the guy was rushing to go because he had a flight to make afterwards. We'll never know why he made the decision to skip some of the crucial pre-flight checks. It might be one of those things where 99 times out of a 100 it's never an issue and he figured it probably won't be a problem this time around. It just goes to show that there is a reason why the proper procedure must be followed each and every time. Condolences to the friends and family of the pilot.
a professional aviator does the right thing, even when no one is looking. Rushing wasn't the reason for skipping a tank sump. Skipping that step was the norm. Poor safety culture permeates RR.
I enjoyed a flooding of water many years ago. In hast, looking at the sample of fuel taken from the tank, I did not notice any water "separation" and the bottom. I was not planning to fly immediately and was running up at the tie down for other reasons. After a long several minutes, the engine shook to a stop. Upon opening the cowl, I then noticed the water/fuel separation in the clear filter bowl. I sumped the tank again and realized that there was so much water that there was no fuel...&%#*. I always smell the sample since that day. As Juan noted, leaky fuel cap... I Got Lucky, very lucky...!
You are such a gem for the aviation community, Juan. Thank you for all your hard work!
I picked up a Cessna 180 once that was setting outside for a couple weeks and was rained on few times. Sumped the first wing, looked at it, didn't notice anything and scattered it, sumped the other wing and there was some water in it, took a few times to get all the water out. Started thinking about the other tank, something didn't seem right so I went back to sump it again. I didn't notice anything because I drained out nothing but water, got a bucket and I must have drained out over a quart. That's how it can get you.
I knew nothing of their channel, I just went and watched one of the Cougar videos. Even if I did not know of the crash, I would have my hair stand up watching the one I looked at just because of the near constant emphasis on pace and deadline to get a MAJOR amount of stuff done. It was annoying
I made the mistake one time sumped the fuel tank’s in preflight ,all was good .
The plane needed fuel so they came and topped it off , i did not re sump it .
Did run up everything was good lined up for takeoff .
Took off got half way into the down wind leg and lost power , mad it back to the runway then taxiway .
Two other planes went down back to back , other two had off field landings .
No one got hurt one plane was a write off , all three got fuel from the same truck.
Always sup a couple min after refuel 🙏🏽
We lost a friend to this fuel/water issue and he didn't sump the tanks. Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche, N830SS: Accident occurred June 22, 2013 in Idaho Falls, Idaho.. This happened after 6 months storage.
The Grumman GA-7 is great for people like me who weigh around 165 pounds and live in north country.
Dang that's rough. I live in Idaho Falls and work in Rexburg as an A&P/IA.
I looked up the NTSB report on it. It's eerily like this one. Light twin takes off, witnesses say it only gained 100-200 ft altitude, they heard the right engine surge and some pops and it crashed. Other witnesses said the pilot didn't check the sumps for water.
Thanks professor Juan for another excellent lesson, unfortunately because of someones negligence and get there itis. RIP for our flyer. I got caught with weather and my Cessna 210 got left outside and several heavy rain storms. Caps and gaskets Appeared in good shape, and was terrified with the amount of water in the tanks. Needless to say, I Always have time for sumping the tanks.
Early model (pre 1990) Cessnas had installed one fuel drain in each wing tank. Post 1990, they started fitting 5 (from memory) drains for each tank. Water in tanks has been a problem for a long time.
I believe the newer models with wet wings need more drains because of the different low points. The bladder style only really has one low point but they also have their own problems.
@@evanhodgson3901yeah, bladder tanks often end up with folds that can trap water.
Rushing almost always leads to problems. It's a life lesson, not just for pilots. Slow down, pay attention, be in the moment. Thanks for the coverage of this Juan+Pete.
'Rebuild Rescue' focuses mostly on superficial cosmetic work using completely arbitrary target timeframes. It's entertainment - nothing more - just like 'Mythbusters', and deludes people into thinking they've learned something. It might have some value in getting children and youth interested in pursuing certain careers, but for anyone else it's actually dangerous - the Dunning-Kruger effect manifest.
Find water in fuel truck sumps. Best to get a sample into a white bucket.
Find water and debris in aircraft sumps. Old cells have wrinkles and can trap water.
Sump after fueling. After sitting.
Even then you may still find water.
Pete….oh my is he growing up….you got a great Dad and I wouldn’t be surprised if you grow up to be a Pilot too😊✈️
Good job. Sad this happened. Now to hear about AA running off the end of the runway in Dallas since our Union blocks all comments on our pilot boards regarding incidents now.
An incredible amount of useful information in a rather short video. Much respect and stay safe. Your channel and YOU are invaluable invaluable
As Airline pilot and a CFI for 40 years. I have also rebuilt 5 aircraft over the years. I started watching that channel and just could not make myself finish watching. They were making numerous mistakes fixing up the airplane.
What mistakes did they make? Apart from what appears to be missing to check/replace the fuel cap gasket?
Also, one must be careful when draining the sump. For example, if there is SIGNIFICANT water in the tank, you may not see a separation between water and fuel because it may be ALL WATER. I always taught my students to pour a small amount of what you've drained onto the asphalt...water will form "balls" or clumps, but fuel just spreads out in a uniform way. Do NOT trust the color, as it is easy to convince yourself the liquid you see has a bluish tint, especially depending on the background you view it against.
Michigan pilot here, I was taught to top off tanks overnight due to condensation that could develop, on ramp or hanger’d. Never gave it thought & along with visual sump , never ever left this out. Hurrying is not part of flying!!
Thank you Juan, the truth is hard, but in our world, absolutely necessary. Many of us posted comments of concern on many of the videos, word’s unheeded led to what I’ll now be a tremendous heartache for many.
Good info Juan. You MUST be careful with your fuel samples. I always smell the sample to make sure it’s fuel and not all water. When flight instructing, I had an airplane that several complete samples were all water, if you’re not paying attention, it looks very similar to a good fuel sample. I think we drained probably ½ cup of water. The flight was a no-go as I let Mx take care of it. I know you can shake the airplane, allow time for the H2O to settle and drain, lather, rinse and repeat. I’m not that brave any more.
Thank you Juan for this review. Please everyone understand that flying is not the same as taking the SUV out for spin and that there is nothing wrong with waiting a few minutes to perform a proper preflight inspection. Better 10 minutes late than not arriving at all.
One of the first things I was taught as a 14 yr old as my dad was becoming a private pilot...he trained on Pipers...the Tomahawk, Warrior (my fav), Archer, Arrow and the Saratoga, was to check the fuel. Engines dont like water to run on...and as a teacher of 32 yrs and still continue to do so, I must say the demonstration Pete got to participate in and see WILL always stay with him.
Sad circumstances, needless death....swiss cheese comment...spot on.
Always sample fuel from the top of the aircraft first, then the lower drains. If one starts at the lowest point,perhaps the firewall strainer, it can draw contaminated fuel from the wings into the lines to remain undetected. (Lesson from mentor some fifty years ago.)
Thank you for another informative and factually true video. This accident was so avoidable.
Got my ppl working as an linemen, we had Cessna's, Piper's' singles, & twins...I was constantly refueling these flight school airplanes, water never even got a chance. however...now I'm only 20 years old, I'm still learning if you will. I was taught to drain the fuel and check for water, which I did every preflight, never found anything, but none of my instructors , ( I had a few working at the airport, just grab one when ya can.) Ever drilled into my head about what may happen in the long term effect when an airplane sits, or bad gaskets etc. you instructors out there take a little time with your student on this...thank you.
@blancoliri0-1 I love it
Very good lesson Juan,
We here at AA have been sumping the big jets for years
And still find water upon occasion. 😢😢
Losers use emojis... I have zero faith in your alleged work abilities.
I can only imagine the struggle to sump every tank on a 777😂😂😂
Started watching Rebuild Rescue from Jason's very early episodes since I've been a part of restoring numerous antique, classic, and muscle cars through my years and enjoy seeing things getting rescued.
Although I'm not a pilot, or even an A&P, I have numerous friends, including A&P's, who are involved with or retired from the aviation industry. Through this circle I have gained a fundamental understanding of the industry and hobby. I never was comfortable with Jason's approach and cavalier attitude around getting these old birds airworthy again and unsubbed long ago fearing this very outcome.
My condolences to Sam and his family.
Professional auto mechanic here.
I watched ONE video by Jason on the Austin Healey rescue after hearing about this aircraft accident, just to get a feel for the guy.
He'd have been fired on the spot if he just started guessing at the firing order in my shop or my class, like he did with the Austin Healey. He even caught the thing on fire in the process.
At the end of that video he admits he had the manual and "looked at it maybe a year ago."
Told me everything I needed to know about his aptitude and attitude
@@artt3165 Not to mention that Jason crashed a plane he was piloting several months back.
@@artt3165Same here. I worked as an A&P/IA for decades. His videos and attitude alarmed me. He is not alone. If there is any good to come from this debacle, it could be that independent A/Ps will stop participating in these "rescues".
@@MrHappyMickeyThat was from a blown tire. Not his fault.
Excellent teaching moment at the end with you and the young boy. Something he will not forget.
Darn! What a crying shame. All he had to do was sump the tanks, and he might still be with us. So very sad. A deep lesson in this. Do not rush your pre-flight, and do not skip any items. Thanks Juan for bringing this to light. It's information like this that can save lives.
but the customer might not have been in a couple months. Even if this went right, the 5 day repair and immediate shipping was hugely irresponsible.
As a professional A&P mechanic, I cannot stress enough about how a single small detail overlooked may have catastrophic consequences. Such a simple thing, in the case of this accident, to have caused a fatal accident. Tragic and angering.
So here's a question for this learned group. Jason flew the Cougar from Michigan to PA left seat. Jason does not have a pilot's certificate, only a student pilots certificate. The A&P is also an MEI and this flight per Jason's statement in the video was being logged as an instructional flight. So if the gasket was missing on the right fuel cap, a required item per the 100hr/Annual checklist, then the aircraft was unairworthy. Therefore they were flying an unairworthy aircraft. A big no no in the FAA's book. If you recall this is the second time Jason has been found flying an unairworthy aircraft. The first was when he crashed the PA235. In that crash the FAA found a number of AD's had not been complied with in the PA235 and it was not airworthy.
So question number 1. Is a student pilot under instruction required to perform all preflight checks? Or is it the PIC, in this case the A&P MEI? Or does it make a difference who does it so long as someone does it?? If the gasket was missed at the annual, I'm assuming it was missing for this flight.
Question number 2. Did anyone sump the tanks before it left MI?
Question number 3. So who in this case gets violated?? Is it the MEI as he is PIC? Is it Jason as he is the student who should be doing all he tasks required for flight? Or is it both?
Just shooting from the hip, I'd think the instructor would take the hit(s) because presumably the student "doesn't know better" at his current level so it's up to the instructor to "observe the student" and "provide the necessary correction" or something like that.
As far as the missing gasket, it might fall under the same category as it did when the accident occurred. Who should have known or said something depends on who fueled the airplane (removed and replaced the cap) prior to departure and Jason may not have been aware there was supposed to be a gasket.
I'm not really trying to "defend" Jason but he literally doesn't know what he doesn't know and that's perhaps the biggest problem here. But, ignorance isn't going to save him from FAA actions and lawsuits.
@@artt3165 While I would agree, I think it may have to go back to who was his primary CFI. The one that signed him off to solo. If there was a sign-off in Jason's log book showing he received instruction in preflight tasks then a good lawyer could probably argue that it was Jason's responsibility. I don't know and I'm not a lawyer or have ever played one on UA-cam. There is also the issue of who was PIC. Legally since Jason does not have an ME rating or a PPL for that matter the CFI would be. But how far does that go? Does there have to be an agreement between the CFI and Student as to who has what responsibility? I guess it would probably also depend on how hard they want to go after Jason, the CFI/MEI and all the other A&P's and IA's that signed off on this mess.
@@eagle2019 ,
It's a truly a good question. After I retired from the automotive field I was asked to get involved with some criminal law work as an expert witness. From that experience I learned he who has the deepest pockets is who the lawyers are going to focus on.
My guess is they're going to hang this incident on Jason because he listed the plane as being the property of Mr. Dent Inc. That's probably where the most money is along with Jason personally. Maybe the companies the A&Ps work for after that.
If there's a linkage and there's money to be had the lawyers have an interest in making that link. They want to insure recovery for themselves and their client(s)
Jason may even lose the protection normally afforded a Corporation. because the judge may see him as "hiding" behind the Corporation. to avoid personal responsibility. If you set up a Corporation to make widgets and you start using in to do something other than make widgets the court may not like that and may "pierce the corporate veil" allowing the principles of the Corporation to be sued in their personal capacity.
Then there's FAA sanctions which apply to everybody involved.
I don't think Jason realizes just how big a flaming pile of poo he's standing in.
Keep fighting the good fight against the fan boys!
I haven't flown in probably 25 years (GA) and I forgot more about flying at this point then most to Jason's fans have ever learned.
@@artt3165 Agree 100% with all you points. Like you said I don't think Jason is aware of the shit storm that is coming his way. If you look up every one of the airplanes he purchased they are all registered to Mr. Dent, including the Cougar Sam died in. They are going to have a field day with him!
@@eagle2019 I think it's time to shut down Rebuild Rescue. Maybe had they done that after the first incident, Sam would still be with us !