Silverwing Quick-Tip: Improve Surface Normals
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- MESSAGE:
Seems like I am in the technical phase of my tut creation epoch. But don´t let this fool you, this is a very essential one for all things shading related. So I hope you find it useful and have fun watching!
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VIDEO RELATED LINKS:
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Maxons Official Website:
www.maxon.net/
Octane C4D:
render.otoy.com/forum/viewtop...
CHAPTERS:
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00:00 Intro
00:43 Overview
01:31 C4D: Turn on Normal Display
02:09 C4D: Normal Basics
02:34 C4D: Normals & Shading
03:15 C4D: Normal Interpolation
04:38 C4D: Phong Tag
05:21 C4D: Phong Break
05:46 C4D: Supporting Edges
07:25 C4D: Supporting Edges on Cube
08:18 C4D: Weighted Normals
09:28 C4D: More Weight Modes
10:16 C4D: Normal Tag
11:06 C4D: Bevel Depth
12:05 C4D: Inspecting the CAD Model
13:25 Chart Time: CAD Meshes & Normals
14:40 C4D: Import CAD Datat & Normals
15:12 C4D: Shortcomings of Normal Tags
16:03 MOI 3D: Filletting Text
17:01 C4D: CAD Reimport
18:04 Tut Suggestion
18:22 Patreon Thanks
19:36 Outro
As usually so helpful & on point! Love this one!
Thanks so Much AMI.
Highly appreciate your positive note!
Extremely useful for a lot of the work I do. Thank you, Raphael.
Thank you very much for your comment!
Super glad to hear that 😊✨
Another banger! Much appreciated.
Oh man, thanks so much.
It´s so nice to hear that 🙌✨
Super interesting as always! ⏫️
✨⏫️✨ Thanks a lot. Glad you liked it!
Thank you for the lesson! Separately, I would like to mention that from moi3d you can export a *.obj file, which stores all information about polygon normals in the Normal tag by default. And you can also save colors on selected surfaces and they are exported as Polygon Selection Tag natively.
Hey and thank you very much for your comment.
You are right. I did not go over it, but I use MOI quite often to convert meshes, because it simply has the best conversion.
The only think I did not figure out is how to keep hierarchies and instances with it. C4D supports those, but the mesh is badly triangled (as you see in my video)
Great tutorial.
Thank you very much Hugo.
Glad you liked it ✨🙌
Junge das war mal sehr sehr hilfreich :D Ich wünschte ich hätrte so was vor 2 Jahren gewusst. Die CAD Models meiner Kunden sahen immer sch.... aus :D
Yay, super nice das zu hören!
Und ja, CAD ist echt oft ein sch&1$ 😅
P.s. hatte ich im Video nicht erwähnt, aber MOI macht super schicke Tesellierung, wenn man damit (z.B. in OBJ) konvertiert. Allerdings hat es auch Nachteile. So geht die Hierarchie und die Achsen verloren.
Bei super high end CAD Projekten importiere ich ein mal mit Moi und einmal mit C4D und nehm dann die Hierarchie (und Instanzen) von C4D und tausche die Teile mit dem von Moi Exportierten Mesh aus. Evtl. auch mal ein tut wert, der Workflow.
@@SilverwingVFX VL. Solltest du mal ein CAD Workflow in c4d Tutorial machen *_* ich würde dafür auch Geld zahlen :D. Ich struggle immer mit CAD Daten. 1000 Ebene ich hab kp wie man die Einzelteile am besten selektiert und auch wie man sie am besten mit Material "bestückt". Super viele Instanzen die man nicht "bestücken" kann usw. :D
⬆↗➡↘⬇↙⬅↖ Oh those tricky Normals, always pointing wherever they want! Thanks for showing some of your solutions!
Yeees, thank you ✨↗✨
Ha ha ha. Yeah. It can be quite hard to tame them. A good mesh goes a long way though. Also a reason why I am still SDS model if I want stellar results 😊
Thank you! I knew about normals but not the new functions and possibilities in c4d. Like always, I learn something form you. See you! ⬆↗➡↘⬇↙⬅↖
Super awesome. Thank you so much for your comment and all your arrows ✨↗✨
great tutorial, i loved it ↗
Thank you very much.
Appreciate the positive feedback 🙌✨
Thank you very much for the very helpfull video.
Hey Jochen. Super nice seeing your comment here.
Great to hear you find it useful 🙌
Thank you!!
Also thank you 😊✨
Hey Raph amazing as always, using normal tags is godsent when I don't have time to retopo models coming from cad apps like plasticity, also I did know that normals average along a surface but I didn't contribute that to spacing and size, I just intuitively thought it's an angles thing but didn't dive deeper 😂 also there's the new normal editor/manager that can be a life saver when doing edits on cad files in c4d, it might be a bit daunting at first, I'm still wrapping my head around it. ⬆
wish you a great week a head 🙌
Hey Zaidi,
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Thank you so much for your support and your rich comment!
Yeah normals historically are interpolated just by distance. At least we could set edge loops to contain the interpolation 😊
I did not dive too deep in this video as I wanted to keep it (rather) short.
The normal editing stuff you speak about definitely sounds super interesting. I have seen this in blender for quite some time now but have not looked into how it works in C4D.
I might start looking at the editor as well 🙌 Though I am working on a Blender Project right now that takes some time 😅
Cheers and an awesome start into the week to you as well 🌅
Maaan, sometimes 10 seconds of SliverwingVFX fold the time and space of ten other tutorials into those major break-through moments when it comes to understanding the myriad of parameters inside C4D ... that is to say: thanks Raph & see you on the other side of NYE :))
Ha ha ha. Love your comment.
Always fantastic haring I could help out someone with one of my vids!
Also again thank you so much for your most generous contribution on Patreon. Means a ton to me 🙌
❤@@SilverwingVFX
⬆✌ Another very useful tip!
Thaaaank youuu ✨⬆✨
I much appreciate the support 🙏
Great info, very useful. A good Quick-Tip would be RNDR. As it now accepts native C4D files I can see a lot of confusion going fwd as I still believe you will need to bake most things, no idea how plugins will work etc. Still sticking to ORBX atm, there's trouble enough in that.
Thank you very much for your positive comment.
And also for your suggestion. Yes this is an interesting topic!
To already answer a bit. Plugins are not supported with C4D uploads. You need to bake everything down to C4D standard tools (e.g. Alembic mostly)
So it really depends how many plugins you are using and how good they can be converted.
@14:58 This saved my ass! thank you!!
Super glad to hear that ✨🙌
Oh that's cool, i didn't know you could import normals of mathematically perfect surfaces from cad programs.
Thank you, i learned something today.
Also since i mainly use blender these days, is it possible to import these normal tags into blender from fusion lets say ?
Oh, thank you very much. I always appreciate when people learn something from my vids 🙏
About Blender: I am still learning so I am not up to speed yet.
What I know is that blender has tools to store normals from other geometric object. So the possibility is definitely there!
MOI 3D can actually export OBJ or FBX data with vertex normals from its CAD files. Also it produces one of the nicest CAD tessellations I have seen. Though the disadvantage is that you loose your CAD hierarchy and the object axis placements.
If I have the time I will export something there and see if blender imports the normals right (Which I guess it will per default)
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🙏 😂
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Yaaaas ✨➡️⬆️⬇️✨
Thank you very much 🙌
Awesome content, but still just scratching the surface. What is the purpose of the tag properties buttons on the normal tag? Should we use the phong tag along with the normal tag? I've heard transparent material must have a normal tag to render properly, is it truth, why? When importing OBJs from Zbrush for instance it comes with a normal tag, should we keep it, why? Just a few questions, but I couldn't find anything related to that, and C4D docs are crappy.
Hey Ricardo,
thank you very much for your comment. In general it´s rather easy. Import your CAD meshes with Normal Tags as it gives you a more accurate surface description. Smooth, and or highly subdivided meshes that are not SDS but Poly by Poly or SDS do not need a Normal Tag. That´s it.
I´ll try to answer your questions:
Normal Tag Properties: As established in the video Normals are directions that control lighting. In some situations you want to change those directions to the facing direction of the polygon or change the polygon to the facing direction of the Normals. If you engage with a CAD workflow, you usually do not need to tinker around with this. As so often in software. Those are options in the case you need them. But you usually don´t.
Phong Tag along Normal Tag: It does not hurt. You have to understand that the Normal Tag controls all the directions of the Normals if you bring in a CAD file. So you theoretically do not need a Phong Tag. But you can use it in case you have parts of the mesh (If you change something on the mesh) that do not have dedicated values through the Normal Tag. I usually just leave it on there.
Transparent materials: Don´t require a Normal Tag to render properly. It really depends on the mesh structure you are using. Again if you are bring in CAD files, the Normal Tag gives you a more accurate surface description of the conversion, so you get more accurate diffuse, reflections and, if the object is transparent, also refractions. Again, for other mesh types as Poly by Poly or SDS, you do not need Normal Tags.
When importing meshes from Z-Brush, you can delete the Normal Tag. It will not do anything meaningful as the source was not a CAD file and therefore did not have mathematical more accurate alignments. Unless you have imported CAD into Z-Brush before and without remeshing re-export it into an OBJ.
In General:
Try to understand what a Normal Tag is doing. It tells the renderer the orientation of the surface. In some cases this is wanted (especially if you have more surface information on a former state of the object e.g. CAD data) in others it is unnecessary (When the mesh is rather regular or meant to be subdivided) You can easily check by just deleting the tag and inspect the mesh if it looks any different. If it does look the same and you do not have any shading artifacts, you can simply keep it deleted.
In the video I show how much worse CAD data looks if you delete the Tag.
All the extra features are for other workflows that you usually do not need. Except if you are making Game or Low Poly Assets.
I hope this helps you to understand this topic a little bit more in depth!
Cheers,
Raphael
@@SilverwingVFX Hi Raphael, thank you so much for the detailed information, and make sure everyone will learn from it. That's a pretty important topic sometimes neglected by many, but now much clearer. Have a wonderful day. Cheers!
Hey ich bins mal wieder mit ner Frage: Ich habe was getracked und musste mir dafür ein Lenbs Profile erstellen. Das Footage ist nun entzerrt und meine Elemente wurde eingefügt. Ich will die Objekte nun rendern. Kann ich entweder die Szene mit allen elementen "verzerren" mit dem Linsenprofil oder kann ich mein Footage mit dem Linsenprofil seperat rausrendern?
Ich kann zwar mit dem Standard Renderer das Linsenprofil zur entzwerrung reinladen, jedoch nicht für Octane benutzen, wenn ich zum Octane Renderer wechsel, dann verschwindet der Effekt.
Was kann ich da machen?
VG
Hey Simon, (Ich antworte mal in englisch, hoffe das ist in Ordnung)
I think rendering everything at once is not possible in Octane. Because even though Octane supports Lens Distortion Textures, I think it will distort the background as well, so your camera distortion would be applied twice to the footage.
The usual workflow is to do the distortion of the CG footage in compositing.
As I usually do FullCG work, I never used C4Ds lens correction tools and don´t know if they are able to export a distortion texture. (Those are usually called "STMap")
If so, you can use the map in the Octane Universal Camera to have the distortion directly in the renderer. Or you can apply the distortion afterwards in a comp tool like After Effects. (The latter is what I would do)
ua-cam.com/video/awzje2_vU0Q/v-deo.html
If you don´t find a way to export ST Maps from C4Ds camera distortion there would be the workaround to render your own STMap within C4D and standard renderer to render a plane in front of the distorted camera that is fitting exactly the field of the said view with emissive texture, no shading mimicking the colors of the STMap.
X / U Axis a gradient from black to full red.
Y / V axis a gradient from black to full green.
I hope you understand the concept. As your render should now have the distortion of your camera so you can use the rendered image as STMap itself.
There might be a more easy way. Its just the thing that came to mind and that I would try.
Cheers,
Raphael
Hi, this is a great video. Create a video explaining the octane/otoy website, including the forum, resources, and the support page. If we get stuck at some point and need some help, we need to know how we can get help.
Thank you for your comment. Glad you liked the video.
Oh, that´s an interesting suggestion. I have not heard that before.
I have to admit that I don´t visit the forum too often. Usually only to download new versions. But I will look into it 🙌
After watching this video, I'm not afraid to open the *.stl file
Ha ha ha that´s great to hear 🙌
Hello. Too perfect until I use "Volume Builder" is there a way for it not to return to the condition that the wrinkles at first reappeared. We hope you test on this product.Thank you so much
Thank you very much for your comment.
I don´t think this is possible at the moment in C4D.
You would sort of need an attribute transfer from the original CAD normals to the volume mesher.
There might be tricks though. I usually don´t work a lot with the volume mesher, so I am not too familiar with eventual tricks unfortunately.
Cheers and a good time to you!
Thanks Very Much Sir. Have a good day
I always learn something new from you!
Also purchased the Octane BF deal. Gonna try Moi 3D for sure.
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Oh thanks so much.
It´s so nice hearing that!
About MOI.
The best thing about it, and I did not even speak about in this vid, is that is produces the best CAD conversion meshes if you save e.g. OBJ. Disadvantage here is that you do not keep the hierarchy and instances like in C4Ds import.
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Ha ha ha I get it. CA(T)D. Very clever 😊
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Yaaaas ✨⬆✨
🔄
Ha ha ha. That´s creative 🙌