The issue most people have with these videos is that some advice is plain wrong. The 66L video is specially known for that, if you dodge or roll a 66L, specially in the corner you are getting punished hard for it.
@@Gadlight Only if they're ready for it. Like all options, there's a degree of guessing involved. Like he said in the video, people get away with rolling things and being 'punishable' all the time.
@@gengarisnotinsmash... If they are consistently mashing 5L after 66L then you will not want to roll anyway. Roll and mash beat different options after 66L
This is truly SaJam's Joker moment. Bro's been trying his hardest to teach new players since the boom of DBFZ, but he's finally snapped and admitted "man people Just dont wanna learn huh."
The "I'm skilled when I win, game broken when I lose" can be seen in a *lot* of places once you start looking for it. It's even in economics where people attribute rising costs as due to external factors (which is true) but then also consider rising incomes as solely due to their own skill/knowledge/hard work and not also impacted by those same external factors.
in the same way that people from wealthy backgrounds still believe their position relative to poorer people was solely or almost exusively due to their own skill and work, as seen in different surveys
I would like to thank everyone in the Akatsuki Blitzkampf community for being positive about their fighting game. Truly we are the most blessed 29 people in the FGC.
you know, smaller communities like this are a really cool thing to have, cuz it minimizes the toxic people you can have in it, and cuz its just people who really like and enjoy playing said game.
Nah, when it came to launch sol I just denied anyone who played that absurdity, the problem is sometimes saying "my character is strong(hellaop), but mechanic x that I need to figured out yet" sounds condescending af
I think the idea of the Granblue Twitter videos is awesome Folks in the FGC are always talking about wanting Devs to be more involved and communicate more A dev finally does that, and people want to dunk on them Why can't we just have nice things?
It's because they're giving bad advice. Things that flat out do not work, "Simply block the neutral skip" "Simply win the match" ETC. But if you point at that they're sabotaging players with bad advice, Sajam will swoop in, call you a scrub, and accuse you of hating advice as a concept.
@@Sharkofspace Awesome fanfic dude, but that isn't real. The Granblue twitter acc didn't tweet "you should try not getting hit" or "simply win", they posted a video showing you a defensive tool that every character has which punishes Seox's neutral skip, thus leading to you beating the Seox in that interaction. There are plenty of things that are actually real and you could be mad about instead, so why you want to get mad about a scenario that hasn't taken place in reality is beyond me.
@@buhguh-r8g that guy does nothing but whine in every fighting game, you can also find him on the steam community hubs. he's a professional crybaby, don't worry about it.
that bit at the end talking about pro players shitting on their game making other ppl thinks its bad i immediately thought "leffen" and seeing sajam use him as the example right after had me cackling
Yeah I hate that effect where prominent players scrub quote about a game being trash but people take it as an out for them to excuse their own bad playing
The bit about streamers talking down at their own game and ruining it for their viewers is something that actually hit super hard as a former viewer of Hashinshin. Bro was someone with a decent understanding of League but a horrible mental and a tendency to blame the game for everything that went wrong for him. That ended up influencing me pretty heavily as well, leading me to absolutely despise the game, and when I moved on to fighting games I took that toxic mentality with me. It took me like a year to unlearn that mentality and a lot of it was due to Sajam's content. Somewhat tangentially related but it's something that I've wanted to share and this seemed like a good opportunity.
I don't even play fighting games but I love watching people like Sajam and BrianF and LordKnight who play games that they enjoy and then talk about them in a thoughtful way.
In 30+ years of playing fighting games, that type of mental growth is definitely good to have. Going "it's not the game, it's _me"_ even when your game has legitimate bullshit in it (like the top tiers in games like Third Strike, for example) is a strong, consistent way to improve your mental game, as you understand your own perception and aren't willing to let any outside source influence it unless it... you know... actually, legitimately makes sense. Nobody's going to argue that Chun Li and Yun are super fucking powerful in Third Strike, but they _will_ argue if you bitch about it all the time because it's blatantly obvious. The only answer is either just pick another top-tier, counter-pick or fucking get good already. 😆 It's fine to complain when there's a legitimate reason, but unless those complaints are obviously going to educate someone, improve the game, or change your outlook to make you a better player, why waste your time getting stuck there? When in doubt, lab.
League's creators are almost all like him these days though. It's actually difficult to find someone to watch that won't devolve into toxicity after 2 matches. I know of maybe 2-3 LoL content creators that have a decent attitude, and like 7 that don't. That said, the game itself works in a way that makes it easy to get very mad. One major example being how long games can last while you have no chance of impacting the game. Going 0/3 means you likely won't do anything impactful for 10-20m and either wait to be carried or lose the game. Lose 3 rounds in a fighting game and you can win the next 6 anyway, all in just a couple of minutes. You're not stuck with people flaming you and not able to do anything. Still imo a big reason for LoL's toxicity is the community and streamers. On a side note, I honestly really liked Hash despite all of that, back in the day. Unfortunately he turned out to be a creep. Even if he's right and it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, he can't deny texting underage fans even if not in an explicitly sexual manner is just plain shitty. My trust has been broken, I can't watch him anymore.
I always roll my eyes when people say “modern fighting games don’t reward skill.” I saw a thumbnail that said that and they had two reaction images comparing two different games. The bad game was SF6, the “good, old game that rewards skill” was…SFV. People really love complaining about fighting games, it’s always something new
In SF6 I can't pick Oro VT2, start a ranked match, leave, take a massive dump, come back, press V-Trigger and win the round. So obviously, SFV takes more skill.
@julianshen9698 exactly, it's sort of some weird twist of fate, that riots gonna make another game where its easy to put all your problems onto a teammate instead of learning how to play better, why bother learning how to lane better, better decision making, and how to be more consistently good with your fundamentals, when it's easier to just say 'lol the only reason I'm gold is because I get shit teammates' or 'that champ is op and my champ sucks, I can't carry'
I see this kind of behavior a LOT in card games too. Yugioh, Hearthstone, Pokemon, you name it. A lot of the top level theory involves some level of meta picks and win percentages but when that info flows down to mid and low level players those players tunnel vision on percentages and averages without taking skill or counter-play into account. One of the best examples of this is the fact that, not only are side deck tech choices barely discussed in yugioh, what's even RARER is COUNTER-COUNTER PLAY; what to do about and how to counter your opponents counter play. Players forget about the human aspect in both fighting games and card games and they instead tunnel vision on raw data and mechanics and percentages.
As someone who came from other competitive genres, the FGC really does take fighting games for granted sometimes. I don't know if the complainers are just people who have never played anything other than fighting games but the genre is so cool and many people don't seem to realize how good they have it.
Same here, I come from League of Legends and man... Fighting games are a breath of fresh air in comparison. Though I feel like a lot of the toxicity in the game is not only due to how it works but also content creators (even high elo ones) having horrible attitudes akin to LTG and DSP. The game does have major issues though, ones that imo outweigh any issue I've ever seen in FGs.
They realize, that's why they do it If you convince people something is broken, it doesn't look to bad for you when you lose a tournament to it You may even become a martyr! ("Look! [PRO PLAYER] lost against the thing he always said was broken! That means he was right!") I think that's the correct use of the word martyr anyway
@Sorrelhas While there are definitely people who do that, I personally dont feel like it's malicious for most. Feels more like popular players or content creators will get upset or salty at something in a game and vent online without realizing that their wording in those situations holds a lot of weight for the casual audience.
@@phazerune Maybe I'm focusing on bad examples, mostly because content era gave the spotlight to some vocal minorities whose main hook is shitting on games, I'm not gonna name names
Whats insane to me is seeing streamers complain about PLAYING VIDEOGAMES FOR A LIVING. Like dude, what the fuck? Do you not realize how fucking lucky you are? Jesus christ
Playing online against strangers is really dehumanizing sometimes. It feels really disconnected from a huge part of 1v1 competition: energy. You're left alone to fester with your frustrations and questions. I've questioned whether I even like fighting games anymore after a life long passion and I realized I just used to have fun people to play with, in person, and now that online is so good it's so convenient that I don't have the drive to do anything offline. And yet it's such a lacking experience, win lose or draw. It's so easy to read into your opponent's actions with all sorts of ill intent (which is almost never there).
very wise reply. my solution to this has been to look for sparring partners who will hop on vc while we play: if you get that regularly, you can carry some of that energy into silent matches vs randoms and not construct a caricature of them to be mad at. but it doesn't fix the issue completely! i really do feel like online gaming is inherently alienating, and the biggest solutions would require large cultural shifts.
Learning counter play is one of the fun parts of playing fighting games imo. It's frustrating sure but it's really feels like a anime training arc. You get beat hit the lab then when they try it again you feel like a god when you counter it .
You gotta be like "you're running a gauntlet of trying to beat the dumbest shit you've ever seen in a video game. How will you manage?", yet these mfers claim to love Dark Souls for the challenge but as soon as they don't have 3-5 seconds to decide how to react to a move and another person is controlling the enemy it's "this game is stupid, you're stupid and probably eat buggers".
I resonate with this comment. Losing to the same "broken" character five times in a row and then slowly, oh so slowly, learning the matchup and scraping out that first hard-fought win is a moment of pride that's hard to replicate. Even things that seem insurmountable can be overcome. It just takes effort (and yeah probably luck), and it feels incredible.
I want to be some positivity in the universe, and say I think SF6 is sick. I still play multiple times per week. I work for an office from home, and it’s the perfect game to take my work breaks on. I got my main, Kim, to masters, and that made me so happy.
It always surprises me how people have to always focus on what they hate rather than what they like. If i get burnt out or dislike a game, i just play or do something different. I'll voice issues or what i think does something better, but just being mad (and being mad at those who like it) does nothing
This. I won't say there's any one thing that makes it very obvious, but you can usually tell when someone's at the level of "Hey, I don't like this and I think this is why, but I might be misunderstanding. something" and someone who's just fiending to complain.
I'm mostly playing fighting games every few days and the little break really helps solidify what I need to work on and build up the motivation to get me excited to try and lab them out. So I'm mostly seeing a steady improvement in my play, and don't really feel discouraged when I hit a wall because I know the process of moving past it. I definitely get salty if I play too much, so I just only play when I'm in the mood to put in the effort.
Because a happy feeling is the default state. A shitty feeling is the undesired state. So of course you don't complain when you think everything is fine, and do otherwise.
It's human nature to focus on negativity. It's an unfortunate side-effect of surviving: you can experience any number of good things, but suffer one *really bad thing* and you're dead, so your brain naturally prioritises things that trouble you in case they become bigger problems. The issue is, those problems aren't always things you can deal with immediately. If there's a tiger in the room, either you beat the snot out of it or more likely get the heck outta there, but 'being bad at a thing that I want to be good at' is a far more complex and long-term problem. People naturally resort to griping about it because that's a form of immediate action they can take that makes them *feel* like they're fighting the tiger, even though it doesn't really do anything.
god this is so fucking real. i only really started putting a ton of time into fighting games this past year, and i think their vocal community members are easily the most annoying and toxic of any fan base. you’d think everyone who plays the genre just fucking hates it, even pro players. you’re one of the only content creators who talks about things in a positive light lmao.
As someone who has done this in the past. Asking for help and then arguing about it. Part of the reason was, i was really really hopeing for something that evened the odds. That was *strong* counterplay. Not just. "Yea they skip neutral for free and maybe kill you but it's slightly less likely to happen if you do x" And my response would be like: ok?? that isn't nearly good enough. im gonna die still. It was disheartening hearing that my character had basically nothing if the falco was good enough. I couldn't win without getting lucky. I was playing melee ganon at the time. a very bad character compared to the top tiers. particularly fox / falco. when i asked how to beat falco. They would say. "powershield his lazers" a very tight difficult technique, with limited applications, that doesn't actually guarantee any counterplay, especially if the falco can do it back or shine or just take lazer well. it just sucked. i stopped playing ganon and now falco doesn't bother me. as now i have ACTUAL counterplay. + powershields. my character still loses the MU but it feels doable. idk, thats my story.
The point about not needing to qualify rancid negativity but needing to constantly hedge positive comments in order to preempt hackle-raised naysayers is so on point and it's so exhausting feeling the need to maintain that guarded mindset. I know there's always the "just ignore them and move on" approach, but it's still adjacent to a death by a thousand cuts. The onus shouldn't be on people to ignore the misery-wallowers, the onus should be on the miserable people to try being introspective and changing their mindset to something less insanely negative. You can be critical of something without ranting about it, and if you can pull that off, most of the time even more people will listen to you. It's crazy how that works.
I mean, life would be so much easier if you didn't have to practice at anything. I wish I could just magically be as good at fighting games as Daigo and magically as good at art at Leonardo Da Vinci... ...But it just doesnt work like that
4:16 Woah, shirt change jumpscare! But seriously, really great talk. In my experience, it's just general gamer mentality to immediately put down any advice given to oneself by either making excuses or by being completely and stubbornly wrong from bias, especially due to tier lists or game meta. People don't generally form their own opinions from character-to-character, and when they do, they get clowned on for not knowing a character is "so easy and top tier." I am fortunate enough to have played GBVS towards the end of its life before Rising, and I became a little better at fighting games after playing SF6, but I struggle playing as well and find myself complaining constantly at times. I'm currently focusing on Cagliostro's strengths and lesser strengths to form a stronger gameplan, then I work on counterplay against other characters when I lose to them, and I think I have a much better time with fighting games overall because of that mentality.
I play trading card games more than I play fighting games, but I still see this all the time over there. Cards will release in a set that seem really strong... and people will FLIP their shit. They won't even believe you when you show them that the answer(s) to those cards are in the same set, sometimes. I mean like "here's card A, it's really good and hard to counter. But did you know cards B, R, and X all counter it? They come in the same set!" And then in response, I'll get "yeah, but those aren't *good* counters, and this card is OP, so there's really no true answer to it." Roll my eyes every time. People love shifting blame away from themselves or their bad habits.
This is exactly how I felt about Lumina. I've been playing that game since release 2.5 years ago and have had a great time. It's had problems but the game has been super fun and people just constantly complain about stuff. There's always something else, as you say, people are just looking to be miserable.
When people are arguing on Twitter, they don't consider their opponent, they consider the opponent's character. And that makes sense, because they're online and not in front of the game actually playing, but that means their ghost opponent always counters their every move perfectly, and that's just not the case with real people. You're not going to play against Diaphone or whatever anytime soon, if their character has no visible weaknesses, look for the player's weaknesses.
"66L IS BUSTED, NERF PLZ" - the guy who doesn't block I get incredibly tilted in Granblue (or any FG) but I've never felt like the games needed to be changed to accommodate for MY shortcomings.
I can't speak for whatever's going on with Twitter, but for me personally, it's not "I don't want the help", it's "I know the solution and the solution is insufficient. I play Lily. I know the answer to get past zoning is "EX Windclad Spire", but "Move that requires a separate prep move and two meter" is a poor solution against competent players. She also has "Quick Condor Dive", which also has a severe drawback (gets punished by block drive rush) There's also all the standard moves like drive parrying and walking forward. They're all disadvantageous in the numbers game, in a way where the close-range game doesn't make up for it. So when someone says "Hey, just do X", I can hear "Hey, have you not tried this FUCKING OBVIOUS thing with clear downsides that can make it worse than nothing?" I've never touched GBFV, but from that video, the "here's a way to counter it" is a goddamn whiff punish. And not just any whiff punish; it looks like a flawlessly spaced, instant reaction whiff punish. So I can understand someone getting mad or being insulted by a video that's saying "Have you tried just not getting hit by the move?" because I'm gonna guess any player worth two brain cells doesn't throw out the move at such perfectly bad positions/times.
Negativity on the internet is fucking wild, dude. I've gotten stuck in negativity loops about games and stuff I enjoy multiple times in my life, it really eats at you until there's nothing left. Trying to be better about that. Love the outlook of learning to improve. Keep up the work my dude
You're right that a % of people only want to complain. I have no excuse for the people who respond to someone offering advice on how to handle their characters in the way you described. But think of the comments on the twitter videos with this mindset, which is what I think a lot of people have: Some characters are drastically more powerful than others and Cygames has the power to fix that. They have not patched for balance. They have not even communicated that they intend to patch for balance. But they HAVE communicated, so it's not like they're just silent. And what they're communicating could be interpreted as them saying "Everything's fine. See these examples of what you can do? Git gud." I think it's just a failure of communication. If they just said "We know there's a power imbalance and we're working on it, but in the meantime here are some techniques you can use that will serve you well in your quest to rank up" I think that would have prevented most of the complaints.
'Fighting games are fun' is something I always try and type in the chat when I catch a stream Mr. Jam. Gotta maintain that positiviy. I play this genre over MOBAs because in a MOBA I have to listen to people complain when I queue up. In a fighting game I can just queue up and have fun and never listen to people complain (unless I get on twitter or read a twitch chat).
I totally agree Sajam, as a guy who is learning Tekken 8 as his first fighting game as King because I really like the character quite a bit, this video title really spoke to me because, I’ve been in that boat myself trying to learn many other fighting games in the past and I have to say this is probably my biggest weakness that I’m trying to get over to actually learn Tekken 8.
Oh please, he's repeatedly said fighting games are easy and aren't actually hard, flatly ignoring and talking down to the people who contradict him m He literally isn't capable of understanding what it's like to not be an expert at the thing he's an expert at. But if someone struggles then it's just "they don't want to learn".
Thanks for making this video, Sajam! Surely this video will open people's eyes and they will stop finding any and every excuse imaginable to complain about the game they love
it's not only a complaining thing these types of people want an answer that makes them win 100% of the time but that answer does not exist because spoiler alert this isn't rock paper scissors you don't just win from beating a single thing in an interaction
Funnily enough, usually the best way to learn how to fight against a certain character, is like what Sajam and others did is… listen to the players who main them. Especially on tutorials for the character, even if written to help people play a certain character, they’ll also inform weaknesses for the player to know to avoid, and thus, is also info for others to take advantage of.
i lose what feels like every match in SF6 but it’s also some of the most fun i’ve had in a fighting game. it’s hard to make losing still fun but SF6 does a great job and it feels like every match i can pin point the exact moments i messed up.
To be fair it doesn't help Granblue that their first post in there was like "You can do stuff about 66L!" and in 5 seconds someone posted that if you actually did it you'd die as hard if not harder. Now every post they make they will be accused of spreading misinformation.
I don't know about you guys, but for me, the very concept of "having to learn" is a video game is weird. Usually i just sit down and play a game, and i naturaly learn to play it simply by playing it. Fighting games though are different. If you just play arcade you will never really learn anything... hell, even if you actively play tutorial and online matches you might not learn essential stuff that you would need to get good. For fighting games, you have to study the game, know every single character as well as you know your own, and maybe even know stuff that devs usually don't want you to know, like frame data. I was told that all this stuff is part of the fun of fighting games, but honestly to me it's a shore. I wish fighting games had a way to teach players without much meta knowledge, but it's unreasonable of me to ask that an entire genre cather to my whims. But what if it's not just me? What if the reason fighting games are sucha a niche because most people are like me in a way or another? "People want to complaim, they don't want to learn". Exactly. Because the process of learning a fighting games is not fun. If it was, people would not complaim that much.
As a Nago main, yeah. Hotashi was saying this for a while specifically about this character. And people still kept printing hot takes about Nago. Also: I'll be the first to say I get ragey, but honestly I don't mean half that shit. It's just REALLY annoying and frustrating when someone just slips outta pressure or oki like it was free. It was prooobably my fault, but that doesn't make it less awful. This is why I don't post takes on social media when mad (mostly), especially about fighting games. I KNOW I'll probably be wrong about something. I just vent into the aether and try to get better.
'Oh, you disagree with my opinion? Then that must mean you take the exact OPPOSITE opinion!' 'Well actually no my opinion's somewhere in the middle and integrates arguments from both sides of the spectrum. I'm trying my best to be reasonable here and I don't care about winning or losing the argument as much as trying to reach some kind of constructive conclusion.' 'I can't make a conveniently easy-to-defeat strawman out of such a nuanced opinion so I'm just going to ignore and misrepresent everything you say in an effort to make myself feel like I won an argument that I made up in my head.' 'But dude, if you took a moment to listen to what the other guy's really saying and genuinely engage with their points then you'd be able to formulate far more effective counterarguments and deepen your understanding of the mechanics of discourse which-' 'LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING'
This right here. If you don't suck off a game you are just bad at it and if you don't hate the earth a game walks on you are a shill who likes easy games , leaves no room for what's actually being said
@@EarthLordCJ No, he's the unreasonable one in this scenario. People pointed out that 66L is kinda ridiculous (Because it objectively is), and he twisted that into a strawman about how removing all neutral skips from fighting games would be stupid. Then people pointed out that the Granblue twitter is posting misinformation, and he posted another strawman about how people just hate advice as a concept. 'Oh, you disagree with my opinion? Then that must mean you take the exact OPPOSITE opinion!'
Sajam, I gotta say you really have an admirable attitude when it comes to fighting games. Not just fighting games but human interaction in general. I agree with what you are saying in this video. I am in no way discouraging you or anyone else who reads this to stop spreading positivity and most of all - FUN - around the community. But there's one thing I have noticed in every game community, including single player games. There are people who love to complain. Unfortunately the people who love to complain are significantly louder. Which turns a lot of people away from trying out fighting games, or whatever game, because they saw a dozen popular tweets, or reddit threads, about a broken character dominating the ranked mode of "fighting game". Or a build that trivializes some rogue like game or whatever. Just because the positive player base isn't as loud, doesn't mean it can't be heard. I found your channel after finding Justin Wong. Probably the same thing I like about Justin is what I like about you. You two have a lot of fun doing what you like doing. You'll both always have fans if you do that :) Hopefully more people get the vibes you're putting out there and start having fun. Cheers Bud.
One of my favorite memories of fgs was playing strive against my friends Leo. I was still pretty green and he kept hitting me with the cross up like everytime. Finally he told me I could counter throw it and for some reason that was so much easier than switching my block. Still think about that when I feel like I'm hitting a wall and can't win or improve.
I think a big thing is that the idea of "this game sucks" has been so normalized with fighting games that its just something tha tpeople say. I feel like it's impulsive and not even thought about when said. Any busted thing that happens its oh this games sucks it kusoge this and that, almost like a cultural thing to do, it's tradition. Everyone thinks they're so funny and hip with the kids for saying it
Crazy how your topics are almost always related to my conversations with my friends, it's awesome to see this videos and see the different reactions hahah, thx, your content os awesome bro
This exact situation happened to me months ago after the 5.00 tekenn 7 patch. Lidia just got nerfed one of his key moves and i faced one Bryan that was really salty for losing. I ttold him about the recent nerfs and how his character could greatly capitalize on the move being -14 now and all he said was: "i dont care about your cheap dlc gimmicks" Honestly i dont really understand why people think winning in a fictional setting is so important and self-defining
This also applies to the discussion on modern controls in SF6. I play modern cammy and so many people throw a temper tantrum when I tell them to not throw a fireball when a modern cammy has her sa3 ready. Some people will always want to execute the same gameplan and do nothing but cry when they get punished for it
6:26 this is such an important part, it's so easy to not even realize how toxic YOU'RE being when everyone else around you is being just as bad if not worse
While people complain about all aspects of life, when it comes to video games, especially competitive multiplayer ones, i think people complain because they see it as a leisure activity and therefore don't want to put in work/feel like they have to study in order to get their "free" dopamine from winning. And while i personally can't stand non-stop negativity/people who complain about whatever game they play, i can at least understand feeling frustrated if a game that you like turns into or feels like it/actually requires you to do work/homework in order to keep up with the playerbase. I can especially see how this can be extra frustrating if you come home from work/school and want to just wind down, turn your brain off and play some video games and yet "the grind" follows you back home into your hobbies or leisure activities. I'm not saying this justifies peoples words or actions in regards to this topic (it may, it may not) but i think it might help at least explain them. Some of them anyways.
The one thing I think players like sa jam don’t understand is that it’s way way easier to be positive and have a good attitude towards fighting games when you are already good at fighting games. I always hear this from players, that you shouldn’t care about losing, that you should learn from your mistakes and improve instead of complaining. While that is true, it’s a lot easier said than done if you aren’t already good at games. Learning is way harder when you have literally no base to fall back on
In reverse, it is because they are positive as well that they get better. From personal experience it is a whole lot easier to get better when your first reaction towards struggle is to focus on how to overcome and find enjoyment in what you do rather then get upset and b**** Salt will happen but salt needs only last a short moment, not sending you to twitter to make a dumb AF post.
I’m glad it’s been said, the FGC can be pretty toxic at times but I hope that changes. I love fighting games, I hope I continue to play them for a long time to come. I hope our community grows and matures. It’s never gonna be perfect and that’s okay. But it’s our community and I want it to thrive
I was recently added to my University's eSports team and every character is apparently annoying in some way. It's a fighting game; characters are inherently different and you have to play the matchups differently. You can't go on autopilot against every character.
Mortal Kombat is an entire FG series dedicated to giving its community the chance to complain nonstop for two years. You can also play the game as a bonus too!
I notice that when angry people ask for counterplay, they stop thinking about the game in terms of decisions and start thinking about it as a simple ladder of escalating options. Like if they ask "How do I deal with X?" and you answer, "You can use Y," they will respond with "Yeah but I can't use Y because you can use Z." Like they refuse to acknowledge that fighting games involve a lot of educated guessing and mindgames, and that players can generally only pick one option at a time.
i love the game, that post about the counterplay is really helpful. so i do hope they make more of it. i also tried to play every character to avoid antagonize spesific character. people tend to hate character cause they refuse to play the game, only spesific character.. but playing other character actually help a lot to learn our own favorite character. i do agree to some people some of the character in GBVSR a bit too unfair.. so i get why some people being grumpy about seox and Nier. but complaining instead of learning to counter it just make the game less fun for you. it's not like the dev can listen and instantly approve every request. people nowadays just having a hard time to have fun in video games. they just complain lol
i love the GBVS twitter posting solutions and i hope they continue despite the hate. all press is good press. feels like people are talking about fighting games more than ever and even though a lot of the comments are clowns, im all here for the discussion and GBVS should 100% all-in imo.
I played rising for two days, realized I didn't like the way interactions worked and walked away. I suggest you do the same if you feel the same way instead of crying like children.
There's a blurry line between valid criticism of design decisions and just salt. With social media though the same negative takes are repeated over and over again, so even if they are valid it can get grating.
I got so much better at SF6 when I stopped bitching about losing to modern controls, tried them out, and realized that they actually fit my playstyle really well. Time spent complaining about problems is time you could be spending finding a solution, and once I adopted that mindset, I managed to hit Diamond even though this is my first real SF game
GBVS made me realize something. There’s a tolerable level of annoyance we endure to play a game we mostly like. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s about having fun. GBVS is very fun to me, but GBVSR is a very annoying game. 66L makes it absolutely unfun, and shifted the neutral in a direction I don’t find fun anymore. I could win, no problem, but the path winning was annoying as much as what made me lose. So it wasn’t about dealing with issues ingame, I could do it, it just wasn’t fun. And I dropped it. Life is too short to play something you don’t enjoy. Sometimes it isn’t about getting good, its about knowing where to invest your time.
It feels like some players want a game where they always win and never lose. But, at that point, you would be better off playing a beat 'em up than a fighting game.
Its so hard not to say stupid shit when you lose. Even jokingly going "that shit is broken" comes very naturally, but its not a good mindset to have (and doubly if you're airing it publicly where people who don't know its not serious can see it). I've been working on it, but best I can do right now is correct myself afterwards why I actually lost (out loud) 😅
Shout outs to my Good friend and local soflo player dirtysoap. Back in the day when our group used to run sets i learned how to specifically counter all of his characters with iron tager and after a while i looked for recognition and instead got bitched out and told "it's just the character" yeah alright. It's not just from the new player end. I've played against players who put in arguably more time than me and occasionally I'll take sets and sometimes instead of getting the fist bump and the good shit i get told oh you just won because ____. The community has definitely gotten better since those years people are much more accepting, i just wish we could get away from this i lost because shenanigans excuse.
I know for me, when Im getting reactionary and upset about a character and someone says "Oh do X to deal with Y" you hear it in your head as "why are you complaining, its as simple as doing X" which obviously isnt the intent but whats really going on is you want someone to say "This character is fucking stupid and its valid to be upset" its definitely not productive but its human
Gotta give the granblue versus social media manager props for trying their best on these regardless if the advice is helpful or not
The issue most people have with these videos is that some advice is plain wrong. The 66L video is specially known for that, if you dodge or roll a 66L, specially in the corner you are getting punished hard for it.
@@Gadlight Only if they're ready for it. Like all options, there's a degree of guessing involved. Like he said in the video, people get away with rolling things and being 'punishable' all the time.
@@nivrap_ Yeah, but who isn't mashing 5L after 66L most of the time?
@@gengarisnotinsmash... If they are consistently mashing 5L after 66L then you will not want to roll anyway. Roll and mash beat different options after 66L
For what it's worth, the tip they gave today regarding Siegfried's projectile is pretty good advice.
This is truly SaJam's Joker moment. Bro's been trying his hardest to teach new players since the boom of DBFZ, but he's finally snapped and admitted "man people Just dont wanna learn huh."
He knew he cannot change society
@@luan.galaxy So he blamed the beasts....
he's completely right too though, literally the most right thing anybody has ever said about fighting games
Pin this Sajam
If you've ever tried to teach your friends there's a good chance this will happen to you too
The "I'm skilled when I win, game broken when I lose" can be seen in a *lot* of places once you start looking for it. It's even in economics where people attribute rising costs as due to external factors (which is true) but then also consider rising incomes as solely due to their own skill/knowledge/hard work and not also impacted by those same external factors.
My wages been going up cause minimum wage been legally increased over time.
Wow I’m kinda stunned - nothing is safe from a human bias
Perfect analogy holy shit.
in the same way that people from wealthy backgrounds still believe their position relative to poorer people was solely or almost exusively due to their own skill and work, as seen in different surveys
interesting!
I would like to thank everyone in the Akatsuki Blitzkampf community for being positive about their fighting game. Truly we are the most blessed 29 people in the FGC.
you know, smaller communities like this are a really cool thing to have, cuz it minimizes the toxic people you can have in it, and cuz its just people who really like and enjoy playing said game.
"How dare you try to help me. I will continue to wallow in misery forever. You cannot stop me."
Exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about
DSPpilled
So many of my friends are like this, and even after I give them the answer they were asking for, they don't implement it in-game, lol.
self fulfilling prophecy
Nah, when it came to launch sol I just denied anyone who played that absurdity, the problem is sometimes saying "my character is strong(hellaop), but mechanic x that I need to figured out yet" sounds condescending af
I think the idea of the Granblue Twitter videos is awesome
Folks in the FGC are always talking about wanting Devs to be more involved and communicate more
A dev finally does that, and people want to dunk on them
Why can't we just have nice things?
It's because they're giving bad advice. Things that flat out do not work, "Simply block the neutral skip" "Simply win the match" ETC. But if you point at that they're sabotaging players with bad advice, Sajam will swoop in, call you a scrub, and accuse you of hating advice as a concept.
@@Sharkofspace Awesome fanfic dude, but that isn't real. The Granblue twitter acc didn't tweet "you should try not getting hit" or "simply win", they posted a video showing you a defensive tool that every character has which punishes Seox's neutral skip, thus leading to you beating the Seox in that interaction. There are plenty of things that are actually real and you could be mad about instead, so why you want to get mad about a scenario that hasn't taken place in reality is beyond me.
@@buhguh-r8g You know they've posted more than one video, right?
u r not credible @@Sharkofspace
@@buhguh-r8g that guy does nothing but whine in every fighting game, you can also find him on the steam community hubs. he's a professional crybaby, don't worry about it.
That's why "I think fighting games are something so great" was such a notable thing for Tokido to say after winning Evo.
"Mankind knew that they cannot change society. So, instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts" - Mr Badguy, the Guilty Gear
that bit at the end talking about pro players shitting on their game making other ppl thinks its bad i immediately thought "leffen" and seeing sajam use him as the example right after had me cackling
Yeah I hate that effect where prominent players scrub quote about a game being trash but people take it as an out for them to excuse their own bad playing
if his mouth is open then shit is coming out
Leffen is dark syde Phil with hair and Adderall
The bit about streamers talking down at their own game and ruining it for their viewers is something that actually hit super hard as a former viewer of Hashinshin. Bro was someone with a decent understanding of League but a horrible mental and a tendency to blame the game for everything that went wrong for him. That ended up influencing me pretty heavily as well, leading me to absolutely despise the game, and when I moved on to fighting games I took that toxic mentality with me. It took me like a year to unlearn that mentality and a lot of it was due to Sajam's content. Somewhat tangentially related but it's something that I've wanted to share and this seemed like a good opportunity.
I don't even play fighting games but I love watching people like Sajam and BrianF and LordKnight who play games that they enjoy and then talk about them in a thoughtful way.
and doomsaying about a game's future just harms the scene
In 30+ years of playing fighting games, that type of mental growth is definitely good to have. Going "it's not the game, it's _me"_ even when your game has legitimate bullshit in it (like the top tiers in games like Third Strike, for example) is a strong, consistent way to improve your mental game, as you understand your own perception and aren't willing to let any outside source influence it unless it... you know... actually, legitimately makes sense. Nobody's going to argue that Chun Li and Yun are super fucking powerful in Third Strike, but they _will_ argue if you bitch about it all the time because it's blatantly obvious. The only answer is either just pick another top-tier, counter-pick or fucking get good already. 😆
It's fine to complain when there's a legitimate reason, but unless those complaints are obviously going to educate someone, improve the game, or change your outlook to make you a better player, why waste your time getting stuck there? When in doubt, lab.
League's creators are almost all like him these days though. It's actually difficult to find someone to watch that won't devolve into toxicity after 2 matches. I know of maybe 2-3 LoL content creators that have a decent attitude, and like 7 that don't.
That said, the game itself works in a way that makes it easy to get very mad. One major example being how long games can last while you have no chance of impacting the game.
Going 0/3 means you likely won't do anything impactful for 10-20m and either wait to be carried or lose the game.
Lose 3 rounds in a fighting game and you can win the next 6 anyway, all in just a couple of minutes. You're not stuck with people flaming you and not able to do anything. Still imo a big reason for LoL's toxicity is the community and streamers.
On a side note, I honestly really liked Hash despite all of that, back in the day. Unfortunately he turned out to be a creep. Even if he's right and it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, he can't deny texting underage fans even if not in an explicitly sexual manner is just plain shitty. My trust has been broken, I can't watch him anymore.
I always roll my eyes when people say “modern fighting games don’t reward skill.” I saw a thumbnail that said that and they had two reaction images comparing two different games. The bad game was SF6, the “good, old game that rewards skill” was…SFV. People really love complaining about fighting games, it’s always something new
What are they on bruh. Hell, SF5 came out in 2016, how is that not modern 😭
In SF6 I can't pick Oro VT2, start a ranked match, leave, take a massive dump, come back, press V-Trigger and win the round. So obviously, SFV takes more skill.
Content era FGC was a mistake
And back then, a lot of people say sfv was trash and sf4 was better
@@fajarfarrel932 And when SF4 was out people said they missed SF3 or even 2
Instead of reflecting on themselves they blamed the beasts
Heaven or Hell
Poor Daigo
LETS ROCK
Duel 1
This made me chuckle
Project L team fights are gonna be terrible because of this. Now everyone has a teammate they can blame everything on
that's just league of legends
@julianshen9698 that's why it's called project *L*
@julianshen9698 exactly, it's sort of some weird twist of fate, that riots gonna make another game where its easy to put all your problems onto a teammate instead of learning how to play better, why bother learning how to lane better, better decision making, and how to be more consistently good with your fundamentals, when it's easier to just say 'lol the only reason I'm gold is because I get shit teammates' or 'that champ is op and my champ sucks, I can't carry'
Just need to not swap out and Then....still blame you'r teamate for not assisting
Toxic FGC + teammate = now you can guess what happen next
Professional Sol Downplayer accusing other honest characters of being strong to make us forget.
Huh, almost got me. Thnx bro 🫡
not everything is a psyop
Lmao
I see this kind of behavior a LOT in card games too. Yugioh, Hearthstone, Pokemon, you name it. A lot of the top level theory involves some level of meta picks and win percentages but when that info flows down to mid and low level players those players tunnel vision on percentages and averages without taking skill or counter-play into account.
One of the best examples of this is the fact that, not only are side deck tech choices barely discussed in yugioh, what's even RARER is COUNTER-COUNTER PLAY; what to do about and how to counter your opponents counter play. Players forget about the human aspect in both fighting games and card games and they instead tunnel vision on raw data and mechanics and percentages.
As someone who came from other competitive genres, the FGC really does take fighting games for granted sometimes. I don't know if the complainers are just people who have never played anything other than fighting games but the genre is so cool and many people don't seem to realize how good they have it.
Same here, I come from League of Legends and man...
Fighting games are a breath of fresh air in comparison. Though I feel like a lot of the toxicity in the game is not only due to how it works but also content creators (even high elo ones) having horrible attitudes akin to LTG and DSP.
The game does have major issues though, ones that imo outweigh any issue I've ever seen in FGs.
honestly wish more streamers and top players realized the impact they have on the perception of these games
They realize, that's why they do it
If you convince people something is broken, it doesn't look to bad for you when you lose a tournament to it
You may even become a martyr! ("Look! [PRO PLAYER] lost against the thing he always said was broken! That means he was right!")
I think that's the correct use of the word martyr anyway
@Sorrelhas While there are definitely people who do that, I personally dont feel like it's malicious for most.
Feels more like popular players or content creators will get upset or salty at something in a game and vent online without realizing that their wording in those situations holds a lot of weight for the casual audience.
@@phazerune Maybe I'm focusing on bad examples, mostly because content era gave the spotlight to some vocal minorities whose main hook is shitting on games, I'm not gonna name names
@Sorrelhas thats valid, a few fucking awful eggs can def ruin the bunch
Whats insane to me is seeing streamers complain about PLAYING VIDEOGAMES FOR A LIVING. Like dude, what the fuck? Do you not realize how fucking lucky you are? Jesus christ
Playing online against strangers is really dehumanizing sometimes. It feels really disconnected from a huge part of 1v1 competition: energy. You're left alone to fester with your frustrations and questions. I've questioned whether I even like fighting games anymore after a life long passion and I realized I just used to have fun people to play with, in person, and now that online is so good it's so convenient that I don't have the drive to do anything offline. And yet it's such a lacking experience, win lose or draw. It's so easy to read into your opponent's actions with all sorts of ill intent (which is almost never there).
very wise reply. my solution to this has been to look for sparring partners who will hop on vc while we play: if you get that regularly, you can carry some of that energy into silent matches vs randoms and not construct a caricature of them to be mad at. but it doesn't fix the issue completely! i really do feel like online gaming is inherently alienating, and the biggest solutions would require large cultural shifts.
Learning counter play is one of the fun parts of playing fighting games imo. It's frustrating sure but it's really feels like a anime training arc. You get beat hit the lab then when they try it again you feel like a god when you counter it .
You gotta be like "you're running a gauntlet of trying to beat the dumbest shit you've ever seen in a video game. How will you manage?", yet these mfers claim to love Dark Souls for the challenge but as soon as they don't have 3-5 seconds to decide how to react to a move and another person is controlling the enemy it's "this game is stupid, you're stupid and probably eat buggers".
And then you watch your opponent freeze for a moment like "masaka..." 😂
I resonate with this comment. Losing to the same "broken" character five times in a row and then slowly, oh so slowly, learning the matchup and scraping out that first hard-fought win is a moment of pride that's hard to replicate.
Even things that seem insurmountable can be overcome. It just takes effort (and yeah probably luck), and it feels incredible.
I want to be some positivity in the universe, and say I think SF6 is sick. I still play multiple times per week. I work for an office from home, and it’s the perfect game to take my work breaks on. I got my main, Kim, to masters, and that made me so happy.
I love bitching but I keep it to just saying it out loud to myself
me too, you can't help but be mad when you really want to win
It always surprises me how people have to always focus on what they hate rather than what they like. If i get burnt out or dislike a game, i just play or do something different. I'll voice issues or what i think does something better, but just being mad (and being mad at those who like it) does nothing
This. I won't say there's any one thing that makes it very obvious, but you can usually tell when someone's at the level of "Hey, I don't like this and I think this is why, but I might be misunderstanding. something" and someone who's just fiending to complain.
I'm mostly playing fighting games every few days and the little break really helps solidify what I need to work on and build up the motivation to get me excited to try and lab them out. So I'm mostly seeing a steady improvement in my play, and don't really feel discouraged when I hit a wall because I know the process of moving past it. I definitely get salty if I play too much, so I just only play when I'm in the mood to put in the effort.
Because a happy feeling is the default state. A shitty feeling is the undesired state. So of course you don't complain when you think everything is fine, and do otherwise.
It's human nature to focus on negativity. It's an unfortunate side-effect of surviving: you can experience any number of good things, but suffer one *really bad thing* and you're dead, so your brain naturally prioritises things that trouble you in case they become bigger problems.
The issue is, those problems aren't always things you can deal with immediately. If there's a tiger in the room, either you beat the snot out of it or more likely get the heck outta there, but 'being bad at a thing that I want to be good at' is a far more complex and long-term problem. People naturally resort to griping about it because that's a form of immediate action they can take that makes them *feel* like they're fighting the tiger, even though it doesn't really do anything.
Sajam, the most reasonable personality in the FGC. Thank you for your service.
“Games’s good because you’re winning” should be the tagline of every FG game released.
These are literally all my thoughts about league of legends players lmfao. It's insane
Hes right about fighting games, but you sir are sick and need help.
god this is so fucking real. i only really started putting a ton of time into fighting games this past year, and i think their vocal community members are easily the most annoying and toxic of any fan base. you’d think everyone who plays the genre just fucking hates it, even pro players. you’re one of the only content creators who talks about things in a positive light lmao.
As someone who has done this in the past. Asking for help and then arguing about it.
Part of the reason was, i was really really hopeing for something that evened the odds. That was *strong* counterplay. Not just. "Yea they skip neutral for free and maybe kill you but it's slightly less likely to happen if you do x"
And my response would be like: ok?? that isn't nearly good enough. im gonna die still. It was disheartening hearing that my character had basically nothing if the falco was good enough. I couldn't win without getting lucky.
I was playing melee ganon at the time. a very bad character compared to the top tiers. particularly fox / falco. when i asked how to beat falco. They would say. "powershield his lazers" a very tight difficult technique, with limited applications, that doesn't actually guarantee any counterplay, especially if the falco can do it back or shine or just take lazer well. it just sucked. i stopped playing ganon and now falco doesn't bother me. as now i have ACTUAL counterplay. + powershields. my character still loses the MU but it feels doable.
idk, thats my story.
The point about not needing to qualify rancid negativity but needing to constantly hedge positive comments in order to preempt hackle-raised naysayers is so on point and it's so exhausting feeling the need to maintain that guarded mindset. I know there's always the "just ignore them and move on" approach, but it's still adjacent to a death by a thousand cuts. The onus shouldn't be on people to ignore the misery-wallowers, the onus should be on the miserable people to try being introspective and changing their mindset to something less insanely negative. You can be critical of something without ranting about it, and if you can pull that off, most of the time even more people will listen to you. It's crazy how that works.
as a person, I can confirm I do in fact not want to learn and only want to complain
You're so real for this one ❤
I mean, life would be so much easier if you didn't have to practice at anything. I wish I could just magically be as good at fighting games as Daigo and magically as good at art at Leonardo Da Vinci...
...But it just doesnt work like that
4:16 Woah, shirt change jumpscare! But seriously, really great talk. In my experience, it's just general gamer mentality to immediately put down any advice given to oneself by either making excuses or by being completely and stubbornly wrong from bias, especially due to tier lists or game meta. People don't generally form their own opinions from character-to-character, and when they do, they get clowned on for not knowing a character is "so easy and top tier."
I am fortunate enough to have played GBVS towards the end of its life before Rising, and I became a little better at fighting games after playing SF6, but I struggle playing as well and find myself complaining constantly at times. I'm currently focusing on Cagliostro's strengths and lesser strengths to form a stronger gameplan, then I work on counterplay against other characters when I lose to them, and I think I have a much better time with fighting games overall because of that mentality.
I play trading card games more than I play fighting games, but I still see this all the time over there.
Cards will release in a set that seem really strong... and people will FLIP their shit. They won't even believe you when you show them that the answer(s) to those cards are in the same set, sometimes.
I mean like "here's card A, it's really good and hard to counter. But did you know cards B, R, and X all counter it? They come in the same set!"
And then in response, I'll get "yeah, but those aren't *good* counters, and this card is OP, so there's really no true answer to it."
Roll my eyes every time. People love shifting blame away from themselves or their bad habits.
YESSSS!!!! Sajam!!!! Preach.
So glad you exist. It gives me hope that there are people out there that still try to figure shit out.
This is exactly how I felt about Lumina. I've been playing that game since release 2.5 years ago and have had a great time. It's had problems but the game has been super fun and people just constantly complain about stuff. There's always something else, as you say, people are just looking to be miserable.
When people are arguing on Twitter, they don't consider their opponent, they consider the opponent's character. And that makes sense, because they're online and not in front of the game actually playing, but that means their ghost opponent always counters their every move perfectly, and that's just not the case with real people. You're not going to play against Diaphone or whatever anytime soon, if their character has no visible weaknesses, look for the player's weaknesses.
"66L IS BUSTED, NERF PLZ" - the guy who doesn't block
I get incredibly tilted in Granblue (or any FG) but I've never felt like the games needed to be changed to accommodate for MY shortcomings.
I can't speak for whatever's going on with Twitter, but for me personally, it's not "I don't want the help", it's "I know the solution and the solution is insufficient.
I play Lily. I know the answer to get past zoning is "EX Windclad Spire", but "Move that requires a separate prep move and two meter" is a poor solution against competent players. She also has "Quick Condor Dive", which also has a severe drawback (gets punished by block drive rush) There's also all the standard moves like drive parrying and walking forward. They're all disadvantageous in the numbers game, in a way where the close-range game doesn't make up for it. So when someone says "Hey, just do X", I can hear "Hey, have you not tried this FUCKING OBVIOUS thing with clear downsides that can make it worse than nothing?"
I've never touched GBFV, but from that video, the "here's a way to counter it" is a goddamn whiff punish. And not just any whiff punish; it looks like a flawlessly spaced, instant reaction whiff punish. So I can understand someone getting mad or being insulted by a video that's saying "Have you tried just not getting hit by the move?" because I'm gonna guess any player worth two brain cells doesn't throw out the move at such perfectly bad positions/times.
Negativity on the internet is fucking wild, dude. I've gotten stuck in negativity loops about games and stuff I enjoy multiple times in my life, it really eats at you until there's nothing left. Trying to be better about that.
Love the outlook of learning to improve. Keep up the work my dude
If you can't take responsibility for your losses, you don't deserve to take credit for your wins.
You're right that a % of people only want to complain. I have no excuse for the people who respond to someone offering advice on how to handle their characters in the way you described. But think of the comments on the twitter videos with this mindset, which is what I think a lot of people have:
Some characters are drastically more powerful than others and Cygames has the power to fix that. They have not patched for balance. They have not even communicated that they intend to patch for balance. But they HAVE communicated, so it's not like they're just silent. And what they're communicating could be interpreted as them saying "Everything's fine. See these examples of what you can do? Git gud." I think it's just a failure of communication. If they just said "We know there's a power imbalance and we're working on it, but in the meantime here are some techniques you can use that will serve you well in your quest to rank up" I think that would have prevented most of the complaints.
'Fighting games are fun' is something I always try and type in the chat when I catch a stream Mr. Jam. Gotta maintain that positiviy. I play this genre over MOBAs because in a MOBA I have to listen to people complain when I queue up. In a fighting game I can just queue up and have fun and never listen to people complain (unless I get on twitter or read a twitch chat).
"Toxic Positivity" is the worst fucking term I have ever heard. People can't just like things any more.
I totally agree Sajam, as a guy who is learning Tekken 8 as his first fighting game as King because I really like the character quite a bit, this video title really spoke to me because, I’ve been in that boat myself trying to learn many other fighting games in the past and I have to say this is probably my biggest weakness that I’m trying to get over to actually learn Tekken 8.
Sajam is deadass just the therapist for the FGC
I can always count on Sajam for the cathartic digs on the rampant negativity in gaming communities. Thanks my man.
"People Don't Want to Learn, They Want to Complain"
FINALLY! SOMEONE GETS IT!
Oh please, he's repeatedly said fighting games are easy and aren't actually hard, flatly ignoring and talking down to the people who contradict him m He literally isn't capable of understanding what it's like to not be an expert at the thing he's an expert at. But if someone struggles then it's just "they don't want to learn".
@@17thknight bro i'm just joking. Sajam is spitting in the video.😅
@@17thknight Because fighting games aren't inherently overly difficult. They don't even crack top 5 for most difficult genre. Sorry.
Thanks for making this video, Sajam! Surely this video will open people's eyes and they will stop finding any and every excuse imaginable to complain about the game they love
it's not only a complaining thing these types of people want an answer that makes them win 100% of the time but that answer does not exist because spoiler alert this isn't rock paper scissors you don't just win from beating a single thing in an interaction
Funnily enough, usually the best way to learn how to fight against a certain character, is like what Sajam and others did is… listen to the players who main them.
Especially on tutorials for the character, even if written to help people play a certain character, they’ll also inform weaknesses for the player to know to avoid, and thus, is also info for others to take advantage of.
Love the Chrono Trigger reference at 01:26 hahaha. The future refused to change indeed.
wakeup babe new sajam vod just dropped
i lose what feels like every match in SF6 but it’s also some of the most fun i’ve had in a fighting game. it’s hard to make losing still fun but SF6 does a great job and it feels like every match i can pin point the exact moments i messed up.
To be fair it doesn't help Granblue that their first post in there was like "You can do stuff about 66L!" and in 5 seconds someone posted that if you actually did it you'd die as hard if not harder. Now every post they make they will be accused of spreading misinformation.
I don't know about you guys, but for me, the very concept of "having to learn" is a video game is weird.
Usually i just sit down and play a game, and i naturaly learn to play it simply by playing it.
Fighting games though are different. If you just play arcade you will never really learn anything... hell, even if you actively play tutorial and online matches you might not learn essential stuff that you would need to get good.
For fighting games, you have to study the game, know every single character as well as you know your own, and maybe even know stuff that devs usually don't want you to know, like frame data.
I was told that all this stuff is part of the fun of fighting games, but honestly to me it's a shore.
I wish fighting games had a way to teach players without much meta knowledge, but it's unreasonable of me to ask that an entire genre cather to my whims.
But what if it's not just me? What if the reason fighting games are sucha a niche because most people are like me in a way or another?
"People want to complaim, they don't want to learn".
Exactly. Because the process of learning a fighting games is not fun.
If it was, people would not complaim that much.
As a Nago main, yeah. Hotashi was saying this for a while specifically about this character. And people still kept printing hot takes about Nago.
Also: I'll be the first to say I get ragey, but honestly I don't mean half that shit. It's just REALLY annoying and frustrating when someone just slips outta pressure or oki like it was free. It was prooobably my fault, but that doesn't make it less awful. This is why I don't post takes on social media when mad (mostly), especially about fighting games. I KNOW I'll probably be wrong about something. I just vent into the aether and try to get better.
Bro this is so facts lmfao
Wild PhiDX also got recommended this video 😂
Any advice is pointless because I'm so smart that I've already perfectly deduced that it's a 10-0 matchup between MY character and YOUR character.
Some people complain for the sake of complaining like a daily checklist
Sajam should not be allowed to pronounce Belial like that I was not prepared
'Oh, you disagree with my opinion? Then that must mean you take the exact OPPOSITE opinion!'
'Well actually no my opinion's somewhere in the middle and integrates arguments from both sides of the spectrum. I'm trying my best to be reasonable here and I don't care about winning or losing the argument as much as trying to reach some kind of constructive conclusion.'
'I can't make a conveniently easy-to-defeat strawman out of such a nuanced opinion so I'm just going to ignore and misrepresent everything you say in an effort to make myself feel like I won an argument that I made up in my head.'
'But dude, if you took a moment to listen to what the other guy's really saying and genuinely engage with their points then you'd be able to formulate far more effective counterarguments and deepen your understanding of the mechanics of discourse which-'
'LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING'
This right here.
If you don't suck off a game you are just bad at it and if you don't hate the earth a game walks on you are a shill who likes easy games , leaves no room for what's actually being said
this in itself is a strawman argument but I get what you mean
This is literally just what Sajam does every single time though
@@SharkofspaceI agree, Sajam is almost always the most reasonable person in the discussion.
@@EarthLordCJ No, he's the unreasonable one in this scenario.
People pointed out that 66L is kinda ridiculous (Because it objectively is), and he twisted that into a strawman about how removing all neutral skips from fighting games would be stupid.
Then people pointed out that the Granblue twitter is posting misinformation, and he posted another strawman about how people just hate advice as a concept.
'Oh, you disagree with my opinion? Then that must mean you take the exact OPPOSITE opinion!'
Why learn when you can cry till something is nerfed.
Sajam, I gotta say you really have an admirable attitude when it comes to fighting games. Not just fighting games but human interaction in general.
I agree with what you are saying in this video. I am in no way discouraging you or anyone else who reads this to stop spreading positivity and most of all - FUN - around the community. But there's one thing I have noticed in every game community, including single player games.
There are people who love to complain. Unfortunately the people who love to complain are significantly louder. Which turns a lot of people away from trying out fighting games, or whatever game, because they saw a dozen popular tweets, or reddit threads, about a broken character dominating the ranked mode of "fighting game". Or a build that trivializes some rogue like game or whatever.
Just because the positive player base isn't as loud, doesn't mean it can't be heard. I found your channel after finding Justin Wong. Probably the same thing I like about Justin is what I like about you. You two have a lot of fun doing what you like doing. You'll both always have fans if you do that :)
Hopefully more people get the vibes you're putting out there and start having fun.
Cheers Bud.
One of my favorite memories of fgs was playing strive against my friends Leo. I was still pretty green and he kept hitting me with the cross up like everytime. Finally he told me I could counter throw it and for some reason that was so much easier than switching my block. Still think about that when I feel like I'm hitting a wall and can't win or improve.
I think a big thing is that the idea of "this game sucks" has been so normalized with fighting games that its just something tha tpeople say. I feel like it's impulsive and not even thought about when said. Any busted thing that happens its oh this games sucks it kusoge this and that, almost like a cultural thing to do, it's tradition. Everyone thinks they're so funny and hip with the kids for saying it
Crazy how your topics are almost always related to my conversations with my friends, it's awesome to see this videos and see the different reactions hahah, thx, your content os awesome bro
This is such a great topic
This exact situation happened to me months ago after the 5.00 tekenn 7 patch. Lidia just got nerfed one of his key moves and i faced one Bryan that was really salty for losing. I ttold him about the recent nerfs and how his character could greatly capitalize on the move being -14 now and all he said was: "i dont care about your cheap dlc gimmicks" Honestly i dont really understand why people think winning in a fictional setting is so important and self-defining
Sajam, buddy, you're a goddamn saint. I don't know how you do it but please never stop being you.
One of the worst takes I've seen in regards to the GranBlue twitter trying to give advice was from SonicSol, he called it "gaslighting".
This also applies to the discussion on modern controls in SF6. I play modern cammy and so many people throw a temper tantrum when I tell them to not throw a fireball when a modern cammy has her sa3 ready. Some people will always want to execute the same gameplan and do nothing but cry when they get punished for it
6:26 this is such an important part, it's so easy to not even realize how toxic YOU'RE being when everyone else around you is being just as bad if not worse
3:08 I've said it before and i'll say it again... the FGC was in a much better place when tutorials were provided by PRO PLAYERS not DEVELOPERS.
While people complain about all aspects of life, when it comes to video games, especially competitive multiplayer ones, i think people complain because they see it as a leisure activity and therefore don't want to put in work/feel like they have to study in order to get their "free" dopamine from winning. And while i personally can't stand non-stop negativity/people who complain about whatever game they play, i can at least understand feeling frustrated if a game that you like turns into or feels like it/actually requires you to do work/homework in order to keep up with the playerbase. I can especially see how this can be extra frustrating if you come home from work/school and want to just wind down, turn your brain off and play some video games and yet "the grind" follows you back home into your hobbies or leisure activities. I'm not saying this justifies peoples words or actions in regards to this topic (it may, it may not) but i think it might help at least explain them. Some of them anyways.
I've personally accepted that I hate high level fighting games, but really enjoy the mid level stuff where people bust out all the fun moves.
Positivity fighting back is the content I am here for!
The one thing I think players like sa jam don’t understand is that it’s way way easier to be positive and have a good attitude towards fighting games when you are already good at fighting games. I always hear this from players, that you shouldn’t care about losing, that you should learn from your mistakes and improve instead of complaining. While that is true, it’s a lot easier said than done if you aren’t already good at games. Learning is way harder when you have literally no base to fall back on
In reverse, it is because they are positive as well that they get better. From personal experience it is a whole lot easier to get better when your first reaction towards struggle is to focus on how to overcome and find enjoyment in what you do rather then get upset and b****
Salt will happen but salt needs only last a short moment, not sending you to twitter to make a dumb AF post.
I'm not a pro fighting game player and even I see this comment as cope.
This is exactly the case with the "MK1 Is Dying" narrative online.
I’m glad it’s been said, the FGC can be pretty toxic at times but I hope that changes. I love fighting games, I hope I continue to play them for a long time to come. I hope our community grows and matures. It’s never gonna be perfect and that’s okay. But it’s our community and I want it to thrive
YES OH MY GOD. It's so exhausting hearing people shit talk a game they obviously enjoy all the time.
I was recently added to my University's eSports team and every character is apparently annoying in some way. It's a fighting game; characters are inherently different and you have to play the matchups differently. You can't go on autopilot against every character.
Never take anything gamers say seriously, they always find something to complain about, no matter how justified.
Mortal Kombat is an entire FG series dedicated to giving its community the chance to complain nonstop for two years. You can also play the game as a bonus too!
I notice that when angry people ask for counterplay, they stop thinking about the game in terms of decisions and start thinking about it as a simple ladder of escalating options. Like if they ask "How do I deal with X?" and you answer, "You can use Y," they will respond with "Yeah but I can't use Y because you can use Z." Like they refuse to acknowledge that fighting games involve a lot of educated guessing and mindgames, and that players can generally only pick one option at a time.
i love the game, that post about the counterplay is really helpful. so i do hope they make more of it.
i also tried to play every character to avoid antagonize spesific character.
people tend to hate character cause they refuse to play the game, only spesific character.. but playing other character actually help a lot to learn our own favorite character.
i do agree to some people some of the character in GBVSR a bit too unfair.. so i get why some people being grumpy about seox and Nier.
but complaining instead of learning to counter it just make the game less fun for you. it's not like the dev can listen and instantly approve every request.
people nowadays just having a hard time to have fun in video games. they just complain lol
i love the GBVS twitter posting solutions and i hope they continue despite the hate.
all press is good press. feels like people are talking about fighting games more than ever and even though a lot of the comments are clowns, im all here for the discussion and GBVS should 100% all-in imo.
Sajam could be asleep peacefully for hours and somebody would say they he was downplaying launch Sol in his sleep, shit was WILD
I played rising for two days, realized I didn't like the way interactions worked and walked away. I suggest you do the same if you feel the same way instead of crying like children.
The answer is "They should nerf the character I don't like"
As an MK player, the entire community speaks yappenese.
There's a blurry line between valid criticism of design decisions and just salt. With social media though the same negative takes are repeated over and over again, so even if they are valid it can get grating.
I got so much better at SF6 when I stopped bitching about losing to modern controls, tried them out, and realized that they actually fit my playstyle really well.
Time spent complaining about problems is time you could be spending finding a solution, and once I adopted that mindset, I managed to hit Diamond even though this is my first real SF game
GBVS made me realize something. There’s a tolerable level of annoyance we endure to play a game we mostly like. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s about having fun. GBVS is very fun to me, but GBVSR is a very annoying game. 66L makes it absolutely unfun, and shifted the neutral in a direction I don’t find fun anymore. I could win, no problem, but the path winning was annoying as much as what made me lose.
So it wasn’t about dealing with issues ingame, I could do it, it just wasn’t fun. And I dropped it. Life is too short to play something you don’t enjoy. Sometimes it isn’t about getting good, its about knowing where to invest your time.
It feels like some players want a game where they always win and never lose. But, at that point, you would be better off playing a beat 'em up than a fighting game.
Its so hard not to say stupid shit when you lose.
Even jokingly going "that shit is broken" comes very naturally, but its not a good mindset to have (and doubly if you're airing it publicly where people who don't know its not serious can see it).
I've been working on it, but best I can do right now is correct myself afterwards why I actually lost (out loud) 😅
Lmao the legacy “hold over” from previous iterations cracks me up.
Hey Sajam, I dunno how the government works but could you run for president?
Leffen has been working on it for almost 15 years....
Shout outs to my Good friend and local soflo player dirtysoap. Back in the day when our group used to run sets i learned how to specifically counter all of his characters with iron tager and after a while i looked for recognition and instead got bitched out and told "it's just the character" yeah alright. It's not just from the new player end. I've played against players who put in arguably more time than me and occasionally I'll take sets and sometimes instead of getting the fist bump and the good shit i get told oh you just won because ____. The community has definitely gotten better since those years people are much more accepting, i just wish we could get away from this i lost because shenanigans excuse.
Sounds like he's downplaying Sol
Such a high quality content creator. Helps breakdown small aspects of the game and helps with mental boom. 10/10 tuber fr
I know for me, when Im getting reactionary and upset about a character and someone says "Oh do X to deal with Y" you hear it in your head as "why are you complaining, its as simple as doing X" which obviously isnt the intent but whats really going on is you want someone to say "This character is fucking stupid and its valid to be upset" its definitely not productive but its human
This video perfectly encapsulates some of my biggest complaints about the FGC. Thanks for helping me put my feelings into word, Sajam.