Your videos document the most accurate shooting of the 1858 of all the videos I've seen in the last two decades. Your consistency through loading technique is admirable. Your videos are very instructive about the 1858, as close to an exhaustive study as possible while serving up the cream in your publishing. Great shooting and clean video production values. Thank you.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am still amazed by the potential of these firearms. I am happy that you feel the videos are informative because I take a slightly different approach; trying to show what the guns can do. I would like to be able to use the Ransom rest on the Rem's, but no grip adapter is made to my knowledge. I take my hat off to the companies making these fine firearms at affordable costs. I feel confident that most of them can do the job better than I if properly loaded. Thanks again. O.R.
Thanks. Always nice when someone appreciates the size of the groups possible with these replicas of guns of the past. A number of good movies have been made portraying their use, one of my favorites is "The Outlaw Josey Wales" (Eastwood). Glad you enjoyed the shooting. O.R.
@@billythekidd623 Right. Thinking how fortunate we are that Clint made that one, and others. Inspiring. We need heroes. Like the Native saying goes something like this, “When the legends die, the dreams end, when the dreams end, there can be no happiness “. I grew up admiring Superman, The Lone Ranger and Paladin. Not folks that would have s** in the White House. O.R.
Thanks, some luck for sure, but the Pietta guns I've seen can shoot. My young neighbor brought his 1860 over today and showed him how I load, he fired a 6 shot 3 inch group, 21 yards, which wasn't bad considering what he had done to himself last night. I felt pretty happy when he asked me to try, he loaded, and I did a 3/4" for 5, with one about 1 1/2 inch out (bench of course). Maybe its the load that those Pietta's like, along with the luck, because my eyes can't sight that well at 21 yards. Wish I had some video of that though, sure wasn't expecting it. Appreciate your comments. O.R.
I’ve been shooting my steel frame 1858 New Model Remington since 1987. It still shoots dead center every time. Even better than my modern pistols. It’s an outstanding firearm.
And amazing. 👍 Especially with the price, and considering that there’s space between the groves in the barrel and the ball, that’s of course assuming the ball doesn’t bump up larger during acceleration when leaving the forcing cone part of the barrel. Maybe someday someone will be able to detect gas leaving the barrel ahead of the ball. Need a lot better camera than mine. O.R.
I know most people load only five chambers for safety but the 1858 has safety notches between the chambers on the cylinder. These notches provide a safe place for the hammer to rest as well as lock the cylinder between chambers until the hammer is cocked. This allows you to load all six chambers and carry the gun safely. This was one of the advantages the Remington had over the Colt 1851. This is also why I have an 1858 New Army instead of the Colt. I don't like the idea of only loading five rounds in a six shooter. I'm sure you already know this but maybe some of your viewers don't.
Still not a great idea unless you have done some filing to make it lock all the way and even then not a great idea. The navy colt has them too but not as good as the Remington.
@@averycamden4730 I have had no problems with the way I load my pistol and I have been doing it this way for decades. The cylinder literally cannot turn until the hammer is manipulated. I have tested every single way that it could possibly slip out of the notch. It is rock solid. My model has one notch that is a lot deeper than the others, which is the one I use. Never had a round go off in well over thirty years.
@@watzup62 Give the 5 shot fundamentalists a single shot gun, and they won't load it at all. I think it started out as a means to save 1/6th on the ammo used in the sport.
Some brands of Remington's did not have proper notches, pieata doesn't make REPLICAS, they make percussion revolvers, using classic designs but reeningered
Best grouping i've ever seen with a cap 'n' ball. I don't get results like that with mine unfortunately, but living in the UK I don't get to shoot it as much as I would like to.
I'm fortunate to be able shoot in my back yard. Closest neighbor is 1/2 mile, and I use a backstop of course, and there is also a hill and 200 meters of trees between us. In the direction that I shoot, no homes for 4 Km. If I want kittens, we need our own tom cat. That gun shot that way, and I haven't tried it since. I do get along quite well with the Remington sights. Of course things don't always work out that well, but those guns have it in them. Check out my video "Pietta 1858 Remington New Army" if you haven't. I believe I show several typical groups there, one turned out above average. Thanks for the comment. P.S. What model and caliber? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Mine's a Uberti stainless .44, will need to file the front sight at some point as it shoots about 6 inches low at 25. Will give your other videos a watch.
@@varney2010 Thanks for the reply. That should be a top of the line piece. Would be interested in your loading procedure. Cylinder in the gun, or out, wads, lube, or nothing, etc. 6 inches low sounds typical for the Remington reproductions. Conicals may shoot higher than the round balls, but might not give the accuracy. Won't need to take much off the top to get point of aim placement. Good luck, hope you enjoy some of the other videos. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I load on the gun. Usually .454 Hornady ball over lubed wad and 30gns of Pyrodex. To be perfectly honest, the accuracy to me on this gun isn't as important as the satisfying boom with flame and smoke that i get from it.
@@varney2010 Well spoken. The accuracy potential is interesting, but a reliable and fun load to shoot is probably more important to most shooters. Unless one is in competition, or has some other need, accuracy can be more of an academic thing. Probably because there was a time when I competed with these guns that I needed the bullet to end up where it was supposed to. I needed to have a gun and load that was as accurate as possible. If I missed, I wanted to know it was me, and not just a flyer. Thanks again for the reply. O.R.
That is some bench rest Shooting there young man! You might think about telling your brother “look over yonder” as you run back to the house with her. I have 3 of these… so darn… I better drag one out in the morning and play. Thank you again for another amazing video.
Fantastic shooting, your brother got the best one out of the 2 it looks like! And to get a one hole like that with a heavy charge is outstanding, most target shooters use only 15 grns and a filler,. Stay safe!
Thanks. I've heard, or read the same about folks that target shoot with the lower load and filler. I've don quite a bit of that also, probably easier on the gun, maybe less likely to develop a flinch, easier on the pocket book, and of course in rapid fire (if there is in black power events), better recovery for the next shot. But what I've heard it is for the accuracy as I think we both are thinking. Also, if using the original loading device, the smaller load the ball might not seat on the powder. Or, is it that it is closer to the end of the cylinder. Anyway, should load up ten cylinders each way and see what happens. I would like to figure a way to clamp that Remington in the Ransom Rest. The Remington would work better than the Colt because I need to remove the barrel on the colt to use the press, and who knows if it gets back in the same position. Again, thanks for the reply. O.R.
Thanks Eric. The way I figure it, the can gets a "second chance", to be used. I fill with water, makes hitting or missing a bit more observable. Granted, after rounding up the pieces, they are a bit harder for my wife to crush. Also if one of their adjacent buddies catches a slug, well, the movement caused by the water spray might give that lucky can better odds. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 so I just got into the black powder revolver scene. I'm a hard-core traditional archery guy. I bought a uberti 1873 cattleman BP for a sidearm when I'm hunting elk with my longbow. I can shoot here at the house and I've been slinging a ton of lead. Curious if you have ever figured up a dollar amount on BP loads. I'm spending more per shot than a 9mm auto at about $0.50 a shot. Any chance you have a budget recipe. Maybe you could do a video on that? Just an idea. Thanks again.
@@ericwhite4572 Running about 25 gr FFF/load would be about .10. Cap at about .08. If shooting round ball, another .10. I'm not sure about wads, but maybe another .08-.10, and lube probably less than .05 (if used). So,,,That's about $.40/round. I cut that down some because I have some powder that was less when purchased, make my own lube and wads, cast round ball from lead I got reasonable, again, years ago. I would guess I shoot for about $.15/shot. For plinking, I can cut back on the powder some by using a filler like corn meal between powder and ball. And you're right, it could make an interesting video to see just how reasonable it could be made to be. O.R.
I've been shooting black powder revolvers since 1970 (CVA Sheriff's model, .36 caliber, brass frame) and have NEVER seen any of those revolvers print groups as yours did. That's amazing! Don't let your brother ever sell it for any reason!
Here's the story. Saw these at Cabela's 5 years ago and there looked so nice got 3. One for my brother (the one shot here) and another for my middle brother. I shot mine for the first time last year, and WOW. Told my middle brother about it, and found out he sold his for a song new in the box. I have a video shooting mine, Pietta laser engraved shooter if you haven't seen it, the results were also very good. I don't have any other newer 1858 Pietta's, my older ones have the slower twist. I have to wonder if all faster twist new ones shoot that good. O.R.
I also shot a lot in the 70's and 80's. Most, if not all was 36 cal. The only 44's I fired were 1860 and colt Walker, both 2nd gens. No way could I do anything then like now, and probably wasn't exactly a pilgrim. But, the 44's had a 1-60 twist, and the 36's were 1-30. Shooting round ball, I don't think either twists were fast enough to stabilize. I still can't say that the 36's I have now (except for the new Uberti's 1-16 twist) can be trusted not to have flyers. The 44's in 1-30 can be. Maybe that is the same situation you and probably others encountered back then. More testing and work to do in Texas. Thanks for the comment and follow up on the Pietta quality. O.R.
I'd take that barrel... any time! When you went to 30 gr, those groups tightened up, but when you reduced that front sight you came away with *one whiz-bang of a shooter!!!* I'd hunt with that revolver ANY time. You should be proud of that gun. Couple yours and your brother's, and you have some fine family heirlooms to pass down.👍 That was some good shootin' on your part as well. Much obliged for the video. "Thumbs up" from this Kentucky boy. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Five Star Review.
Thanks so much. Always figured that I should move to Kent, or maybe Tenn. I've heard that there's folks there that never stopped shooting B.P. stuff. I'm figuring to make a box for them, and would sure like to get you a picture if I get it done, just don't know how that could work. Anyway, maybe I would do a vid on it, and shoot them both with some conicals -- sounds like fun. Thanks again, and keep your eyes on the channel a little longer, "expect good news". O.R.
First cylinder: *shot one* me: eh *shot two* me: oh cool *shot three* me: Damn... *shot four* me: DAMN! *shot five* me: .... A little low sure, but good night thats a hell of a group you've shot at, especially at 21 yards!
@@tommyboy6267 Yes, the problem I have is with age, and too many guns to remember which one shoots low or to the right. Old timers probably had one or maybe two, and they knew exactly where it shot and how to correct for it. Glad to hear you enjoy iron sights. O.R.
Nice revolver, great shooting! I think I want one of those. LOL A friend has an 1858 and I find that I have to reach too far cocking the hammer from shot to shot. the 1860 Uberti seems to fit me better in operation. Your 1858 is a tackdriver!
These 1858's really do well. The later ones that have the faster twist might have a slight edge, but hardly noticeable with round ball. I actually like the sight picture as well or better than many of the more modern guns. Don't want to be quoted, but for the price, can't think of any modern ones that are as or more accurate. O.R.
My Remington New Model Army is currently being shipped. Only waited 6 months but better late than never. I'll likely sell my 1851 Navy if mine shoots as well. Thanks for the video!
Hope it works out. Got to keep the fouling sort so it doesn't build up. What make and age is the 51? And if I might ask, where is the 58 coming from? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I buy my bp guns from Old South Firearms. Lee treats me great, has awesome prices and both are Traditions Piettas. 51 is a 2019 I think and I stripped all the reddish finish off grips then restained them dark expresso brown and also installed a shotgun front bead to improve accuracy. Used a multitool once to knock out wedge so its got a few character marks but bluing is all factory good. I see the 58 as replacing it so letting it go for 225. with holster.
@@therightisright8276 Thanks Mike. I believe Traditions are Pietta made, if so, the 36 may have a twist rate that doesn't always give the best results because it may be a bit slow. The 44 Remington could give noticeably better results. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I only own and shoot .44 or bigger. If it doesn't have true stopping power every time its a waste of my time and money. I'd rather throw rocks than count on a .36 or .31 any day.
@@therightisright8276 My mistake. When you mentioned you had a 51, forgot that some are coming in the 44 cal, different than the originals. Suppose that Wild Bill might have opted for the larger caliber in the 51 also had it been available. O.R.
I love all of your content, but this video in particular: it went straight to my favourites. I'm on the fence about whether to get a Pietta or an Uberti reproduction of a Remington 1858 New Model Army, but I fell in love with this engraved Pietta and that's what I'll probably end up buying. It would be my first ball & cap revolver: so far my experience has been limited to competitions with a compressed air carbine (10 mt) , .22 rifle (50 mt, prone) and a gorgeous Carl Gustav 6.5x55 mm (200 mt). Hopefully the ball & cap experience will be just as good, or even better. :)
As said in the video, this was my first shooting of this gun, and it was amazing out of the box. I have an identical to it, and have shot mine more, and it also shoots well, as do others that I have. Just don't want you to be left with the idea that one can expect this type of shooting as the norm or disappointment could set in. I will have days with mine that two inch groups at 20-25 yds are the best I do, still fun. Shooting (and cleaning) these will be a new experience. Some love it, and some only do it once. Best of luck, and thanks for the comment. P.S. I just acquired a Swede. I had one that I bought in the 60's mail order. It was advertised as a sniper rifle, had a scope mounted, and I foolishly sold it when I was short on money. Always been short, just a little shorter then. O.R.
I agree. When we consider that they are probably made with similar CNC equipment as are modern cartridge guns, and that the round ball is easier to stabilize then conicals, stands to reason that they are shooters when properly loaded; especially at fairly close range. O.R.
Thanks Mr. James. I read years ago that a pistol shooter should squeeze, not pull, and not know when the gun will fire. That may not be always true because the brain starts to take over, especially in rapid fire. I'm lucky that I don't flinch with handguns like I do with rifles and shotguns. Can't flinch when you don't know when to. Thanks again for the comment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Your accuracy is so superb that I have a greater appreciation for my New Model Army (brass frame). Thank you for the great video and commentary.
Thanks Dale. I know the feeling. Winter is too long here, and shooting at the indoor range with black powder (or subs) is a real no-no. So is doing much outside at zero degrees with 2 feet of snow. There was a time when I did with smokeless, but never with the percussion guns. O.R.
Excellent shooting and instruction. Thanks for the well made video. Many people seem to think that these old Colt and Remington repro type revolvers are inaccurate. -That you simply have to learn the off-set of each revolver and adjust your shooting accordingly. In your case, such people would advise simply shooting a little higher and to the right. You have argued, contrarily, that simple site adjustment is all that is necessary. I AGREE. these revolvers should be nearly as accurate as any modern side arm. Consider that these are reproductions made with modern steel and machining. I believe that modern percussion cap revolvers are likely more accurate and sturdy than the original arms. E.g., modern steel can only be stronger and the machining more accurate than in 1850. Rifling can only be more accurate and durable today,
Agree. I recall what Elmer Keith said about his 36 cal navy. "I had one .36 Navy that had a pitted barrel, but with the above load it would cut clover leaves for its six shots, at 20 yards, all day ..." The originals I believe had gain twist barrels, and apparently accurate. If they weren't, I doubt that they would have bothered to make shoulder stocks for them.
I have a Pietta 1858 NMA that I bought from Cabelas years ago. It is the target model. Groups nicely, but about 12 inches high at 25 yards. The rear sight is bottomed out, so can't go any lower, and the front sight on target models is already quite high. So I am rather stuck how to solve the problem. I thought about just removing the rear sight completely and using the frame to sight. That is essentially how the fixed sight versions work anyway. But the target versions have quite a wide rebate cut in the rear to accomodate the "adjustable" rear sight. Wouldn't look very good, and it would be rather tricky getting the front sight centered in that wide rebate, but am going to play around with it and see where it shoots relative to point of aim. If you have any suggestions, I am all ears. Thanks
That’s interesting. Never had the adjustable sight model, but disappointed to hear it shoots high. Usually the fixed sight model of the 58 will shoot low and can file front as desired. I’m thinking about that and maybe have the motivation because my cousin just bought one. If I come up with anything will get back to you. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I went out to the range today and just adjusted my sight picture where the front post was just visible above the bottom of the rear sight notch. That brought the POI within 2 inches of POA, but it is difficult to line it up just right, particularly with my 70 year old eyes. In comparing the fixed vs target sight versions, it is my observation with the fixed sights your rear sighting notch is in the frame of the gun, which naturally causes your sight picture to shoot low, particularly if you have a tall front sight. With the target sight, even though it is rebated into the frame, the rear sight assembly sits up quite high, even at its lowest setting. This adds elevation. So what do you do, make an already really tall font sight taller? So it will be interesting to see how your cousins gun shoots. Thanks for your help.
@@chaecoco2 You’re right, that Remington design with the strap over the frame puts the rear sight high, even if in the frame. Now add an adjustable sight and bingo, need a six inch front. Of course then there’s my cousin’s situation. Since he has lots of time, I’m suggesting that he hollows out his .454 balls to reduce upward recoil. Suppose he could take that wrong. 😟. O.R.
Before I got into reloading I hade a 36 Sheriff's. 1860 Army and brass frame 1858. all shot about as high as yours shot low. but very accurate. I used 30gr 3f in the Remington.
Thanks. These guns are fun. I have a young neighbor that really enjoys them. Have a look at the video "Shooting Black Powder Revolvers" , maybe you have, but if not, you can see how he really likes them. O.R.
If I’m thinking correctly, the minie ball is the sort of projectile used in the Civil War style guns. This style is more often referred to as a conical bullet, and yes, this style can be used. Lee Precision is one company which makes a mold for this style gun, and there are others. You might want to check “Eras gone bullet molds” www.erasgonebullets.com O. R.
@@faraday9234 Do have a video shooting conical in an 1860 Army ua-cam.com/video/S66PAhS4-o0/v-deo.html&si=H13p7vNmkl-5gR4k. Don’t remember doing one with the 1858, but maybe should. O.R.
Thanks for a great video! It’s a shame alliant discontinued Black MZ powder as all my front loaders shot better than any other powder at the time. It smoked just like black powder and used to be less than $10 a jug at Sportsman’s Warehouse. I cry every night!!!
We should each have bought 50 pounds, or maybe you should have because I probably won't be around long enough. But, I sure agree. I am a but suspicious that it might not work as well on smaller calibers, say 36. Any experience in that area? O.R.
I noticed my piettas were all dirty from factory. I just got a 1851 brass navy deluxe engraved like your remington. And when i took the barrel off it had powder in it. And the barrel is really pitted when i zoom in with my camera. My other piettas the barrels arent as bad as this one.. but they all have it. Seems pietta just tests the gun and ships em without cleaning
I think I heard (or read) somewhere that they send them to have them proofed. That makes some sense, otherwise the fox would own the chicken coop. Interesting to hear this from another source as now I’m thinking not just my bad luck. Somewhat disgusting for such a nice and time consuming creation to get sloppy treatment at the end. Doesn’t seem to affect shooting however. Thanks again for your comment. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 oh its bad man.. With my new lhone the s22 ultra its 108 mega pixel canera i can actually zoom in so close i can see every little nick.. pit. Scratch. Mark in the barrel.. i shined a light inside took a pic.. and oh my god its so bad how bad the pitting is. I checked my others and they have pitting as well.. not as bad as this one though. The accuracy isnt affected on them though.. so im guessing it wont be on this either. But i did email pietta about this. Im going to make a video on this crap soon so maybe sub to my channle if you want ? To check it out.
@@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 Glad the camera works that well, but the news doesn’t sound good. I know I tried to clean up mine but didn’t have any luck and now we know why. O.R.
Windage for sure could be a problem. Keep your fingers crossed that it isn't much, may be be able to reduce one side or the other to compensate. Others also suggest replacing with a dovetail like the Uberti's if it is real bad. O.R.
At 21 yards, and a 8 inch sight separation, you we can expect about 100 times the sight movement. Or, taking off a hundredth of an inch of front sight should raise point of impact approximately one inch. I can’t speculate about how much is removed with the file stroke. For example, where the sight is thin more will be removed with a stroke than where it becomes thicker. I’d hate to recommend what might be difficult to replace. If someone removes the rounded part of the Remington front sight, it can raise impact 8 inches at 22 yards. Hope this helps some. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you, I just thought it would be interesting and informative to show a visual of how the process works. By the way, the other day I said that there are two loads. A pure target load and a full power load, I forgot about the paper cartridge load. I recently acquired an Eras Gone mold for the 36 Colt Navy and the tools to make paper cartidges. It should be fun. Thanks for all you do. John Davis Jax Fl
@@johnndavis7647 I agree. As I was responding I thought the same that there could be a place for a visual diagram of the geometry of the sighting system. Be interested to hear if you think a video about that would be a good idea for a winter video project. Also any ideas you might have on what to include. After what you have already suggested, something like how to measure how much to remove. I forget that most shooters can’t leave the range, put the gun in their shop vice and be back testing in 5 minutes. A chart or formula would be fairly easy to put together as a guide or starting point for knowing how much to remove. Maybe if I google it there is already plenty of information already to be had. I had fun making some paper cartridges. It was a winter project and actually never shot any, didn’t matter, the fun part was in the making. Never got to creating packaging like Mark H has done, but that also sounds like a great project. I think I have 3 or 4 of his molds. Would like to test shooting that more traditional bullet system VS the lube at the end of the cylinders. I like to see how accuracy compares after 10-15 shots, but suppose that is a bit trite as in the day that probably wasn’t as important as just getting it to shoot. Have fun with the project. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 my experience is with fix sighted longrifles. I figure out what patch, ball and charge the rifle likes first. Then I shoot it off a rest and I drift the sights left or right to center the group then I file the front sight a bit and shoot a group, then file a few strokes and shoot another group. Basically, I walk the group up the target until I get it hitting where I want it. It's by guess and by gosh, No science or match involved. With revolvers it's similar except That there is enough standardization That some math could be useful.
@@johnndavis7647 Right. I do pretty much the same with the fixed sights on handguns. Most times there’s no way to drift the sights. If the front sight is too low on a smoke pole, make another. If it’s too low on the revolver, especially a SAA, well, it ain’t so easy. The math could be handy to determine if there is a wide enough front to correct for windage by narrowing it on one side or the other. O.R.
If you don't mind me asking what area of Wisconsin. Sometimes can be a short shooting season there. The Ruger is a fine gun for sure. Maybe I'm just not used to cleaning it, but to me, the older style guns break down easier if one wants to do the insides. Can't imagine doing to a Glock or S&W what I have done to the black powder guns like the Rem's and Colt reps. Not sure they would ever get back together. Actually sort of enjoy cleaning the old BP guns. O.R.
@@larryfromwisconsin9970 My complements Sir. As a kid I always admired and wanted to be like my hero, the Lone Ranger. My brother set up my UA-cam channel for me. guess he figured the Old Ranger was a fair match for me, and what I was presenting on the channel. Hope that explains the handle. O.R.
One of my Pietta Remington revolvers shot lower than yours was with round balls so I bought some 200gr conical and fired them with 26grs 3fg. Now it hits dead on. There's nothing wrong with a conical shooter in the collection! Bye the way, great shooting!
Thanks Michael. Maybe you’ve seen the comparison I did between conicals and round balls in a 58 Pietta ? Would like to hear more what you think if you view it. Thanks for the thumbs up 👍. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 I just watched your conical vs round ball video as you requested! Your shooting, once again, is superb! Coincidentally, this morning I shot 2 of my Pietta 1851 Navies, one with 130gr conical and one with .380 RB. The offhand group with the conical was, by far, best. Then, this afternoon I shot yet another of my 8 Navies with round ball, offhand at 30' into a 1" hole. I don't remember the group size of my Remington 1858 with conical, the same ones that you used but at 16yds, with 2 hand offhand hold it grouped as well as my round ball guns, I do believe the slower conical stays in the barrel longer during recoil which is why it shot to point of aim where a RB shot low. I also notice that the better I feel the better I shoot. I also feel you will shoot most everything well because you are careful, observant, experienced, consistent and experienced. Thanks Ranger!
@@michaelcarey3105 Thanks again, not sure 🤔 if I meet all those, but I am persistent, and have been given pretty steady nerves and don’t have a flinch when shooting handguns. But, long guns and especially shotguns are a different story. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself today, and that’s important. And, then there’s the cleaning, but sounds like you done well, and so did the guns. I believe too that the heavier slug is moving 100 or maybe 200 FPS slower. The barrel will have recoiled up slightly more when it exits. Also there is more recoil (feels that way to me), and this adds to it’s lift. I’ll bet if a person grips lower, there even be more effect. Seems to me that increasing or decreasing powder charge has little or no effect on the group because increasing recoil decreases barrel time, they trend to cancel each other, so I’m not too concerned about exact powder weighing. I’m closing down for the winter. I’m sort of a shoot-a-holic, so to not have my place, me, and family freeze solid, I have to stop and prepare. Like frosty the snow man, I hope to be back next year. Good luck - keep safe. O.R.
Outstanding video! Oh that makes me soo dang excited. I just bought mine to day and gave her a down to the bones once over, no adjustments or polishing. She’s a little rough, but shouldn’t take too long to wear in nice. I have two now, the one I bought from before came as a packaged deal. I was in college at the time and happened by a owner/operator store. He had just bought the 1858 Remington 44 steel, 1851 Navy 36 brass, and 1862 pocket 31 brass. Think I paid 160ish for all of em and he made like 60$. I put the girls through the shit as best I could, and figured it’s now time for a real lady. Idk hwat the eff they dressed her in but I’m strongly considering Maple Burl/Crotch Walnut to sexy that ass up. If you made it this far smash the like, ❤️
I've made some from curly maple for both the 1851's and 1858 Pietta rems. Difficult to get the fit to backstrap. I believe when manufactured that the wood is set in and then filed or sanded to match the metal strap. This is why the grips are numbered so that after the metal is finished the grip goes back on the correct gun. Therefore, I believe that most are not exactly interchangeable. If a person works slowly, the result is very acceptable, but probably not as close as the original that comes with the gun. Just my thoughts. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I’ve not tried a 51 yet, I will once I can pick up a nice 36 cal. I can see how it may be a bit of a challenge to fit the straps in. I’ll have to get a chunk of wood and try it. I love custom grips. Have a piece of Weng sitting on the desk.
@@txdocprich_8404 Right. The manufacturer has an edge because they can finish the back strap after they have fit the wood to it. Figure that's how they get the exact fit; they don't have to worry about messing it up. O.R.
I got mine a week ago we its great. I had to purchase a extra cylinder for black powder. The conversion cylinders are very expensive I would rather buy another revolver. I will probably get a .36 caliber police. Or maybe another .44 snub. Great presentation and shooting really well done. Thank you
Thanks for the positive comments. I agree that the conversion cylinders are pricy. I thought about ordering one in 45 ACP because I like reloading that round, but suppose the price and wondering exactly why I was doing it held me back. I like your ideas about trying some different style BP guns. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I also reload the 45apc and 7 other calibers in all. Someone sent a message they make a cylinder in 45apc . Something to think about now!
@@m2gjam139 Be cautious if you have the actual shooter's model, the one that costs around $900. I have found that the cylinders for that and the more standard model do not quite interchange, at least in the ones I have. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Unfortunately I don't have the shooters model LOL. I think I will leave well enough alone. I will stick to Black powder Thank you for the heads up
And they're used to make I'm not sure allowing the bullet to move slower will raise The Impact point. Because the projectile stays in the boar longer during recoil. I noticed that when I shoot my 7 1/2 inch super Blackhawks loosening your grip will allow the group to raise up just a little bit. But that can prove to be inconsistent. Luckily my super Blackhawks have adjustable sights. A gunsmith can jig that gun up and input a torque in the barrel or even move the site a little bit to the left and that will bring the shot placement to the right
@@44hawk28 Ya, it still remains a mystery to me. I’m of course assuming that the replicas are close copies of the originals, without the gain twist rifling. One would assume the Army would have wanted all they contracted for to do about the same thing as far as sighting goes. Yet, both Army and Navy Colts shoot notorious high, while Remingtons shoot low. Folks will point out that the Military wanted them sighted for 100 yds, which makes little sense to me, but if so, then why did they accept Remingtons that might hit the horse in the leg when trying for a chest shot on the rider?? Thanks for your comment and advice. O.R.
Topping the cans off with water would dramatically increase the shock effect. And since i read from L to R, i assumed (wrongly) you'd aim at the Left can first . . . ☆
@@fjb4932 Interesting. Never gave that much thought, possibly because that’s the order they’re filled. Also, that’s a great idea of topping off which would give more hydraulic pressure without air compression. It’s always interesting to see how the entry point appears to look like the bullet exited the way the metal is pushed outward. Thanks for your comment. O.R.
My 58 uses a 454 ball and a touch of crisco over each cylinder x6. Mine is a early Euro Arms from early 60's and noxo polished frame. FFg of 30grains and a 454 minie bullet wrapped in a paper cartridge goes 100 yards with a six inch drop.
That's impressive at that distance; heck, I don't think I can see that far anymore. The first black powder revolver I purchased was from that time zone; a 1861 navy imported by Replica Arms, made by Uberti. Those older ones I feel are in a class by themselves. O.R.
That's some great shooting there. Once you got that front site filed I would have loved to have seen you go after the paper target again but you sure shot the devil out of those Coke cans. Proof positive that even though that is a black powder pistol it doesn't mean it isn't deadly. Because it for sure is.
Very typical of the colt style. They have a low front sight compared to the Remington's. Don't believe I've come across one yet that doesn't shoot high. Most folks figure they were that way so they could shoot at 75-100 yards. I'm not so sure about that, seems like then the Remington's should be sighted the same then, if that's what the military wanted--savvy ?? O.R.
I think my guns and loads are ready. I'm hoping to do some of that; but there a couple of issues. For one, I don't have a camera person. Another is that at my age I'd rather be heard than seen. And probably the largest is that I want the video to be about the gun rather than my ability (or in-abilities).(How about that for a pack of excuses?) Nothing against that type of video, they can be very interesting and worthy. That said, I really appreciate the comment and encouragement. I might put together something on point-shooting with a S.A.A. Maybe there would be some interest in what I've learned, and that would involve plenty of anticipation and misses. O.R.
@@rayto_V2 Hold on there Pardner, need some time to ponder that. I will admit, it would look pretty cool in that brarssie frame. In fact, I just slid it in to see, and included the picture at the very end of a video on using wads. That is part of a five part series on testing different loading methods, and should have it done shortly. Hope you can find it. Title something like Pietta-1860 Army - Shooting using wads. O.R.
@@johnnelson9252 Dang right, thanks. And nobody figures feeding what is used to fatten hogs (I realize it’s not exactly the same) corn, will fatten the human population. Da. We ate, and drank (cool aid) as kids a lot of sugar, and most of us could still fit both legs into a car. O.R.
Instead of packing the cylinders full of Crisco and splattering it all over the place, I put a drop of oil in each cylinder over the ball - as it says to do in the old Colt manuals - which achieves the same purpose and is a hell of a lot less messy. By the way - My first two black powder guns were an 1860 Colt Army replica and a cased .44 Remington replica with accessories. I still have the Remington after 48 years.
Excellent! What type of oil?? Lots of old muzzle loading patches used whale oil for patch lube as the story goes. My first was a 1861 by Replica Arms (Italian import of course), got it back in the 60's. Still have that one also. Good to have old friends around. O.R.
Thanks for the complement, and for watching. I get lucky sometimes with the group size, as my eye resolution with those sights only allows for about a inch and a half at that distance. I have shot competition, mostly local, and you're right, do have some stuff. Once I won a 16 foot R-K tepee lodge at a black powder rifle shoot -- that was when I could see both the sights and the target. You might know what I'm talking about, or hopefully will live long enough to find out. Thanks again for the interest. Hopefully I will be posting more, my brother brought 4 guns to test. I have another yet to post. O.R.
I don't mean to be the hair splitting critic, but you do know if the cylinder has safety notches in between chambers you don't need to leave a empty chamber.. Just load all six, and then lay the hammer down in between Chambers on that safety notch, rock or try to rotate the cylinder side to side make sure the cylinder is not going to rotate, and you're ready to go.
Thanks. No doubt I got somewhat lucky, but these guns can shoot. When I miss, I want to know it was me, not the gun. I'll usually shoot off the bench first to get a better idea of what the gun is capable of. Good luck at the range, stay safe. O.R.
Your videos document the most accurate shooting of the 1858 of all the videos I've seen in the last two decades. Your consistency through loading technique is admirable. Your videos are very instructive about the 1858, as close to an exhaustive study as possible while serving up the cream in your publishing. Great shooting and clean video production values. Thank you.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am still amazed by the potential of these firearms. I am happy that you feel the videos are informative because I take a slightly different approach; trying to show what the guns can do. I would like to be able to use the Ransom rest on the Rem's, but no grip adapter is made to my knowledge. I take my hat off to the companies making these fine firearms at affordable costs. I feel confident that most of them can do the job better than I if properly loaded. Thanks again. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 is this a 44 caliber.
.454 is not to big ??
.451 are fairly tight.
Ok I will squeeze a ..454 ball in cylinder and see how she feels.
No their are way to many channels that do it better. He's just a fud
I thought you were missing up until the 4th shot. Then the truth hit me like a brick. Those are incredible groupings, very nicely done
Thanks. Always nice when someone appreciates the size of the groups possible with these replicas of guns of the past. A number of good movies have been made portraying their use, one of my favorites is "The Outlaw Josey Wales" (Eastwood).
Glad you enjoyed the shooting. O.R.
Grouping doesn't matter. Hitting the target does.
@@oldranger3044 Missouri boat ride!!! one of my favs
@@billythekidd623 Right. Thinking how fortunate we are that Clint made that one, and others. Inspiring. We need heroes. Like the Native saying goes something like this, “When the legends die, the dreams end, when the dreams end, there can be no happiness “. I grew up admiring Superman, The Lone Ranger and Paladin. Not folks that would have s** in the White House. O.R.
@@timesthree5757 Grouping absolutely matters lol how are you going to hit a target with poor grouping?
Wow, as the others have said that is some good marksmanship
Thanks, some luck for sure, but the Pietta guns I've seen can shoot. My young neighbor brought his 1860 over today and showed him how I load, he fired a 6 shot 3 inch group, 21 yards, which wasn't bad considering what he had done to himself last night. I felt pretty happy when he asked me to try, he loaded, and I did a 3/4" for 5, with one about 1 1/2 inch out (bench of course). Maybe its the load that those Pietta's like, along with the luck, because my eyes can't sight that well at 21 yards. Wish I had some video of that though, sure wasn't expecting it. Appreciate your comments. O.R.
I’ve been shooting my steel frame 1858 New Model Remington since 1987. It still shoots dead center every time. Even better than my modern pistols.
It’s an outstanding firearm.
And amazing. 👍 Especially with the price, and considering that there’s space between the groves in the barrel and the ball, that’s of course assuming the ball doesn’t bump up larger during acceleration when leaving the forcing cone part of the barrel. Maybe someday someone will be able to detect gas leaving the barrel ahead of the ball. Need a lot better camera than mine. O.R.
I know most people load only five chambers for safety but the 1858 has safety notches between the chambers on the cylinder. These notches provide a safe place for the hammer to rest as well as lock the cylinder between chambers until the hammer is cocked. This allows you to load all six chambers and carry the gun safely. This was one of the advantages the Remington had over the Colt 1851. This is also why I have an 1858 New Army instead of the Colt. I don't like the idea of only loading five rounds in a six shooter. I'm sure you already know this but maybe some of your viewers don't.
Still not a great idea unless you have done some filing to make it lock all the way and even then not a great idea. The navy colt has them too but not as good as the Remington.
@@averycamden4730 I have had no problems with the way I load my pistol and I have been doing it this way for decades.
The cylinder literally cannot turn until the hammer is manipulated. I have tested every single way that it could possibly slip out of the notch. It is rock solid.
My model has one notch that is a lot deeper than the others, which is the one I use. Never had a round go off in well over thirty years.
@@watzup62 Give the 5 shot fundamentalists a single shot gun, and they won't load it at all.
I think it started out as a means to save 1/6th on the ammo used in the sport.
Some brands of Remington's did not have proper notches, pieata doesn't make REPLICAS, they make percussion revolvers, using classic designs but reeningered
That's fantastic, even though it's low it's very accurate and that's all you can ask for thanks for the good marksmanship
Bruh wtf? That’s some of the best shooting I’ve ever seen lmao. That’s not even a grouping it’s just a fuckin hole
I couldn’t cut a clover like that with my l or n frame smith doubles on my best day. Damned fine shooting.
Neither can I. Figure the wind must have blowed at just the right time. I quit shooting that gun while I was ahead. Thanks. O.R.
It sure put a smile on my face watching those great groups ! Good Shooting Old Ranger Thanks for the informative fun video !
Grouping doesn't matter hitting the target does.
Best grouping i've ever seen with a cap 'n' ball. I don't get results like that with mine unfortunately, but living in the UK I don't get to shoot it as much as I would like to.
I'm fortunate to be able shoot in my back yard. Closest neighbor is 1/2 mile, and I use a backstop of course, and there is also a hill and 200 meters of trees between us. In the direction that I shoot, no homes for 4 Km. If I want kittens, we need our own tom cat. That gun shot that way, and I haven't tried it since. I do get along quite well with the Remington sights. Of course things don't always work out that well, but those guns have it in them. Check out my video "Pietta 1858 Remington New Army" if you haven't. I believe I show several typical groups there, one turned out above average. Thanks for the comment. P.S. What model and caliber? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Mine's a Uberti stainless .44, will need to file the front sight at some point as it shoots about 6 inches low at 25. Will give your other videos a watch.
@@varney2010 Thanks for the reply. That should be a top of the line piece. Would be interested in your loading procedure. Cylinder in the gun, or out, wads, lube, or nothing, etc. 6 inches low sounds typical for the Remington reproductions. Conicals may shoot higher than the round balls, but might not give the accuracy. Won't need to take much off the top to get point of aim placement. Good luck, hope you enjoy some of the other videos. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I load on the gun. Usually .454 Hornady ball over lubed wad and 30gns of Pyrodex. To be perfectly honest, the accuracy to me on this gun isn't as important as the satisfying boom with flame and smoke that i get from it.
@@varney2010 Well spoken. The accuracy potential is interesting, but a reliable and fun load to shoot is probably more important to most shooters. Unless one is in competition, or has some other need, accuracy can be more of an academic thing. Probably because there was a time when I competed with these guns that I needed the bullet to end up where it was supposed to. I needed to have a gun and load that was as accurate as possible. If I missed, I wanted to know it was me, and not just a flyer. Thanks again for the reply. O.R.
That is some bench rest Shooting there young man! You might think about telling your brother “look over yonder” as you run back to the house with her. I have 3 of these… so darn… I better drag one out in the morning and play.
Thank you again for another amazing video.
He’s returning this month, and has on his list to return home with his gun(s). He always had a good memory for where he left his stuff. Thanks. O.R.
Good helpful advice on the loading and some excellent shooting to boot. Many thanks.
Beautifull! I love it! The 1858 and the 1875 is the most beautiful handgun ever!
Old Fashioned Quality from Both of you .. Gun & Man. - Thank You.
Wow! Beautiful pistol and wonderful shooting!
Great video. Congratulations. Modern revolvers remain to be envied.
Look at the amount of views! I told you that was some awesome shooting, with a ton of questions for this reason.
Watched some of your vids, keep up the good work. Thanks. O.R.
Fantastic shooting, your brother got the best one out of the 2 it looks like! And to get a one hole like that with a heavy charge is outstanding, most target shooters use only 15 grns and a filler,. Stay safe!
Thanks. I've heard, or read the same about folks that target shoot with the lower load and filler. I've don quite a bit of that also, probably easier on the gun, maybe less likely to develop a flinch, easier on the pocket book, and of course in rapid fire (if there is in black power events), better recovery for the next shot. But what I've heard it is for the accuracy as I think we both are thinking. Also, if using the original loading device, the smaller load the ball might not seat on the powder. Or, is it that it is closer to the end of the cylinder. Anyway, should load up ten cylinders each way and see what happens. I would like to figure a way to clamp that Remington in the Ransom Rest. The Remington would work better than the Colt because I need to remove the barrel on the colt to use the press, and who knows if it gets back in the same position. Again, thanks for the reply. O.R.
Wow, you are an outstanding shooter. Thanks for the video.
Oh boy..... that one got me excited!
I guess that's why they call them POP cans.
Great shootin and another great video.
Thanks Eric. The way I figure it, the can gets a "second chance", to be used. I fill with water, makes hitting or missing a bit more observable. Granted, after rounding up the pieces, they are a bit harder for my wife to crush. Also if one of their adjacent buddies catches a slug, well, the movement caused by the water spray might give that lucky can better odds. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 so I just got into the black powder revolver scene. I'm a hard-core traditional archery guy. I bought a uberti 1873 cattleman BP for a sidearm when I'm hunting elk with my longbow. I can shoot here at the house and I've been slinging a ton of lead. Curious if you have ever figured up a dollar amount on BP loads. I'm spending more per shot than a 9mm auto at about $0.50 a shot. Any chance you have a budget recipe. Maybe you could do a video on that? Just an idea. Thanks again.
@@ericwhite4572 Running about 25 gr FFF/load would be about .10. Cap at about .08. If shooting round ball, another .10. I'm not sure about wads, but maybe another .08-.10, and lube probably less than .05 (if used). So,,,That's about $.40/round. I cut that down some because I have some powder that was less when purchased, make my own lube and wads, cast round ball from lead I got reasonable, again, years ago. I would guess I shoot for about $.15/shot. For plinking, I can cut back on the powder some by using a filler like corn meal between powder and ball. And you're right, it could make an interesting video to see just how reasonable it could be made to be. O.R.
With a voice like Paul Harvey; you have my attention. Excellent shooting!
I've been shooting black powder revolvers since 1970 (CVA Sheriff's model, .36 caliber, brass frame) and have NEVER seen any of those revolvers print groups as yours did. That's amazing! Don't let your brother ever sell it for any reason!
Here's the story. Saw these at Cabela's 5 years ago and there looked so nice got 3. One for my brother (the one shot here) and another for my middle brother. I shot mine for the first time last year, and WOW. Told my middle brother about it, and found out he sold his for a song new in the box. I have a video shooting mine, Pietta laser engraved shooter if you haven't seen it, the results were also very good. I don't have any other newer 1858 Pietta's, my older ones have the slower twist. I have to wonder if all faster twist new ones shoot that good. O.R.
I also shot a lot in the 70's and 80's. Most, if not all was 36 cal. The only 44's I fired were 1860 and colt Walker, both 2nd gens. No way could I do anything then like now, and probably wasn't exactly a pilgrim. But, the 44's had a 1-60 twist, and the 36's were 1-30. Shooting round ball, I don't think either twists were fast enough to stabilize. I still can't say that the 36's I have now (except for the new Uberti's 1-16 twist) can be trusted not to have flyers. The 44's in 1-30 can be. Maybe that is the same situation you and probably others encountered back then. More testing and work to do in Texas. Thanks for the comment and follow up on the Pietta quality. O.R.
I'd take that barrel... any time! When you went to 30 gr, those groups tightened up, but when you reduced that front sight you came away with *one whiz-bang of a shooter!!!* I'd hunt with that revolver ANY time. You should be proud of that gun. Couple yours and your brother's, and you have some fine family heirlooms to pass down.👍 That was some good shootin' on your part as well. Much obliged for the video. "Thumbs up" from this Kentucky boy.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Five Star Review.
Thanks so much. Always figured that I should move to Kent, or maybe Tenn. I've heard that there's folks there that never stopped shooting B.P. stuff. I'm figuring to make a box for them, and would sure like to get you a picture if I get it done, just don't know how that could work. Anyway, maybe I would do a vid on it, and shoot them both with some conicals -- sounds like fun. Thanks again, and keep your eyes on the channel a little longer, "expect good news". O.R.
That's extremely accurate. I also had good results with the one I have shot. Good guns, and well made.THanks for posting this interesting video.
I'm envious. Beautiful New Model Army, and shoots great.
First cylinder:
*shot one* me: eh
*shot two* me: oh cool
*shot three* me: Damn...
*shot four* me: DAMN!
*shot five* me: ....
A little low sure, but good night thats a hell of a group you've shot at, especially at 21 yards!
I love fixed sight wheel guns. I've had a lot fun using the old "Kentucky Correction" method. Good video and fine marksmanship.
@@tommyboy6267 Yes, the problem I have is with age, and too many guns to remember which one shoots low or to the right. Old timers probably had one or maybe two, and they knew exactly where it shot and how to correct for it. Glad to hear you enjoy iron sights. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 No problem. Really enjoy your presentation. Clear, concise, no B.S. Liked and subscribed.
@@tommyboy6267 👍. O.R.
What a tack driver! Amazing precision.
Ya, and I had it for couple years, not it's back with my brother. O.R.
Woo there billy the kid. Lol. That sir is awesome. You are great shot 3 in one hole first 3 wow. Great video. Great work on the Remington. Stay safe.
Thanks Paul. You keep safe. O.R.
Nothing wrong with the way that pistol shoots. Nice work.
Excellent revolver!
That's some damn fine shooting.
That was some impressive accuracy sir. Very nice 👍
Wow! That first cylinder hit on top of each other.
Excellent shooting. "Preacher" would be proud of you. 😀
Nice revolver, great shooting! I think I want one of those. LOL A friend has an 1858 and I find that I have to reach too far cocking the hammer from shot to shot. the 1860 Uberti seems to fit me better in operation. Your 1858 is a tackdriver!
These 1858's really do well. The later ones that have the faster twist might have a slight edge, but hardly noticeable with round ball. I actually like the sight picture as well or better than many of the more modern guns. Don't want to be quoted, but for the price, can't think of any modern ones that are as or more accurate. O.R.
Pieata makes percussion revolvers adjusted to the size of Modern people, they are bigger.
Sir! One on top of the other! You are amazing!!
My Remington New Model Army is currently being shipped. Only waited 6 months but better late than never. I'll likely sell my 1851 Navy if mine shoots as well. Thanks for the video!
Hope it works out. Got to keep the fouling sort so it doesn't build up. What make and age is the 51? And if I might ask, where is the 58 coming from? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I buy my bp guns from Old South Firearms. Lee treats me great, has awesome prices and both are Traditions Piettas. 51 is a 2019 I think and I stripped all the reddish finish off grips then restained them dark expresso brown and also installed a shotgun front bead to improve accuracy.
Used a multitool once to knock out wedge so its got a few character marks but bluing is all factory good.
I see the 58 as replacing it so letting it go for 225. with holster.
@@therightisright8276 Thanks Mike. I believe Traditions are Pietta made, if so, the 36 may have a twist rate that doesn't always give the best results because it may be a bit slow. The 44 Remington could give noticeably better results. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I only own and shoot .44 or bigger.
If it doesn't have true stopping power every time its a waste of my time and money. I'd rather throw rocks than count on a .36 or .31 any day.
@@therightisright8276 My mistake. When you mentioned you had a 51, forgot that some are coming in the 44 cal, different than the originals. Suppose that Wild Bill might have opted for the larger caliber in the 51 also had it been available. O.R.
I love all of your content, but this video in particular: it went straight to my favourites. I'm on the fence about whether to get a Pietta or an Uberti reproduction of a Remington 1858 New Model Army, but I fell in love with this engraved Pietta and that's what I'll probably end up buying.
It would be my first ball & cap revolver: so far my experience has been limited to competitions with a compressed air carbine (10 mt) , .22 rifle (50 mt, prone) and a gorgeous Carl Gustav 6.5x55 mm (200 mt). Hopefully the ball & cap experience will be just as good, or even better. :)
As said in the video, this was my first shooting of this gun, and it was amazing out of the box. I have an identical to it, and have shot mine more, and it also shoots well, as do others that I have. Just don't want you to be left with the idea that one can expect this type of shooting as the norm or disappointment could set in. I will have days with mine that two inch groups at 20-25 yds are the best I do, still fun. Shooting (and cleaning) these will be a new experience. Some love it, and some only do it once. Best of luck, and thanks for the comment. P.S. I just acquired a Swede. I had one that I bought in the 60's mail order. It was advertised as a sniper rifle, had a scope mounted, and I foolishly sold it when I was short on money. Always been short, just a little shorter then. O.R.
It's a nice firearm. I like mine a lot.
A neat piece of history, too.
I agree. When we consider that they are probably made with similar CNC equipment as are modern cartridge guns, and that the round ball is easier to stabilize then conicals, stands to reason that they are shooters when properly loaded; especially at fairly close range. O.R.
Excellent marksmanship and good trigger discipline growth potential.
Thanks Mr. James. I read years ago that a pistol shooter should squeeze, not pull, and not know when the gun will fire. That may not be always true because the brain starts to take over, especially in rapid fire. I'm lucky that I don't flinch with handguns like I do with rifles and shotguns. Can't flinch when you don't know when to. Thanks again for the comment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Your accuracy is so superb that I have a greater appreciation for my New Model Army (brass frame). Thank you for the great video and commentary.
Fantastic marksmanship and a beautiful revolver sir.
Thanks, and how fortunate we are that these type firearms are being reproduced at affordable prices. A handful of fun. O. R.
Nice shooting.
Makes me want to get my 1858 back out again.
Thanks Dale. I know the feeling. Winter is too long here, and shooting at the indoor range with black powder (or subs) is a real no-no. So is doing much outside at zero degrees with 2 feet of snow. There was a time when I did with smokeless, but never with the percussion guns. O.R.
Excellent shooting and instruction. Thanks for the well made video.
Many people seem to think that these old Colt and Remington repro type revolvers are inaccurate. -That you simply have to learn the off-set of each revolver and adjust your shooting accordingly. In your case, such people would advise simply shooting a little higher and to the right.
You have argued, contrarily, that simple site adjustment is all that is necessary. I AGREE. these revolvers should be nearly as accurate as any modern side arm.
Consider that these are reproductions made with modern steel and machining. I believe that modern percussion cap revolvers are likely more accurate and sturdy than the original arms. E.g., modern steel can only be stronger and the machining more accurate than in 1850. Rifling can only be more accurate and durable today,
Agree. I recall what Elmer Keith said about his 36 cal navy. "I had one .36 Navy that had a pitted barrel, but with the above load it would cut clover leaves for its six shots, at 20 yards, all day ..." The originals I believe had gain twist barrels, and apparently accurate. If they weren't, I doubt that they would have bothered to make shoulder stocks for them.
I have a Pietta 1858 NMA that I bought from Cabelas years ago. It is the target model. Groups nicely, but about 12 inches high at 25 yards. The rear sight is bottomed out, so can't go any lower, and the front sight on target models is already quite high. So I am rather stuck how to solve the problem. I thought about just removing the rear sight completely and using the frame to sight. That is essentially how the fixed sight versions work anyway. But the target versions have quite a wide rebate cut in the rear to accomodate the "adjustable" rear sight. Wouldn't look very good, and it would be rather tricky getting the front sight centered in that wide rebate, but am going to play around with it and see where it shoots relative to point of aim. If you have any suggestions, I am all ears. Thanks
That’s interesting. Never had the adjustable sight model, but disappointed to hear it shoots high. Usually the fixed sight model of the 58 will shoot low and can file front as desired. I’m thinking about that and maybe have the motivation because my cousin just bought one. If I come up with anything will get back to you. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I went out to the range today and just adjusted my sight picture where the front post was just visible above the bottom of the rear sight notch. That brought the POI within 2 inches of POA, but it is difficult to line it up just right, particularly with my 70 year old eyes.
In comparing the fixed vs target sight versions, it is my observation with the fixed sights your rear sighting notch is in the frame of the gun, which naturally causes your sight picture to shoot low, particularly if you have a tall front sight. With the target sight, even though it is rebated into the frame, the rear sight assembly sits up quite high, even at its lowest setting. This adds elevation. So what do you do, make an already really tall font sight taller?
So it will be interesting to see how your cousins gun shoots. Thanks for your help.
@@chaecoco2 You’re right, that Remington design with the strap over the frame puts the rear sight high, even if in the frame. Now add an adjustable sight and bingo, need a six inch front. Of course then there’s my cousin’s situation. Since he has lots of time, I’m suggesting that he hollows out his .454 balls to reduce upward recoil. Suppose he could take that wrong. 😟. O.R.
Love the sound.
Just missing the Morricone howl finish…
Would sure like to be able to do that without violating something. The right music can sure help set the mood. Thanks. O.R.
Mate , that was a really great detail of info. Great video mate top shooting
Thanks so much for the positive comments. Hope things are going well in your area. O.R.
Before I got into reloading I hade a 36 Sheriff's. 1860 Army and brass frame 1858. all shot about as high as yours shot low. but very accurate.
I used 30gr 3f in the Remington.
You can’t argue with a consistent grouping.
You made this gun look like a lot of fun!
Thanks.
These guns are fun. I have a young neighbor that really enjoys them. Have a look at the video "Shooting Black Powder Revolvers" , maybe you have, but if not, you can see how he really likes them. O.R.
Hell of a shot sir! Great video
Thanks JR, that shot made my day. O.R.
That was some good shooting 👍
Nice pistol, nice shooting 👍
Cool. Really accurate piece of kit that 1858. Congrats!
Thanks!
Can you use a Minie ball?
If I’m thinking correctly, the minie ball is the sort of projectile used in the Civil War style guns. This style is more often referred to as a conical bullet, and yes, this style can be used. Lee Precision is one company which makes a mold for this style gun, and there are others. You might want to check “Eras gone bullet molds” www.erasgonebullets.com O. R.
@@oldranger3044Id love to see you shoot them! You are a maker of great groupings and great content
@@faraday9234 Do have a video shooting conical in an 1860 Army ua-cam.com/video/S66PAhS4-o0/v-deo.html&si=H13p7vNmkl-5gR4k. Don’t remember doing one with the 1858, but maybe should. O.R.
Excellent marksmanship!!
Thanks, Marcus.
isn't a cowboy load on the 1858 redundant? if im not mistaken it has slots for lowering the hammer onto
It does have those safety notches. Not sure why I decided to load 5, normally load and shoot 5. O.R.
Incredibly accurate out of the box.
Right, and interesting because the barrel wasn't perfect, as it probably wasn't cleaned after test-proofing. O.R.
It's a good idea to use crisco to cover the cylinders.
Thanks for a great video! It’s a shame alliant discontinued Black MZ powder as all my front loaders shot better than any other powder at the time. It smoked just like black powder and used to be less than $10 a jug at Sportsman’s Warehouse. I cry every night!!!
We should each have bought 50 pounds, or maybe you should have because I probably won't be around long enough. But, I sure agree. I am a but suspicious that it might not work as well on smaller calibers, say 36. Any experience in that area? O.R.
I noticed my piettas were all dirty from factory. I just got a 1851 brass navy deluxe engraved like your remington. And when i took the barrel off it had powder in it. And the barrel is really pitted when i zoom in with my camera.
My other piettas the barrels arent as bad as this one.. but they all have it. Seems pietta just tests the gun and ships em without cleaning
I think I heard (or read) somewhere that they send them to have them proofed. That makes some sense, otherwise the fox would own the chicken coop. Interesting to hear this from another source as now I’m thinking not just my bad luck. Somewhat disgusting for such a nice and time consuming creation to get sloppy treatment at the end. Doesn’t seem to affect shooting however. Thanks again for your comment. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 oh its bad man.. With my new lhone the s22 ultra its 108 mega pixel canera i can actually zoom in so close i can see every little nick.. pit. Scratch. Mark in the barrel.. i shined a light inside took a pic.. and oh my god its so bad how bad the pitting is.
I checked my others and they have pitting as well.. not as bad as this one though. The accuracy isnt affected on them though.. so im guessing it wont be on this either.
But i did email pietta about this. Im going to make a video on this crap soon so maybe sub to my channle if you want ? To check it out.
@@jeepsblackpowderandlights4305 Glad the camera works that well, but the news doesn’t sound good. I know I tried to clean up mine but didn’t have any luck and now we know why. O.R.
Seriously??? Your shotting is quite damn accurate AF sir!!!❤
Thanks Aaron, there’s a certain amount of luck involved with that sort of group. Stay safe. O.R.
You're a great shot my friend! 21 yards with a pistol? Wow!
Thanks 👍
Finally was able to order a brand new pietta from midway, sure hope the windage is that good. Been shooting a stainless 1858 pietta, low and left
Windage for sure could be a problem. Keep your fingers crossed that it isn't much, may be be able to reduce one side or the other to compensate. Others also suggest replacing with a dovetail like the Uberti's if it is real bad. O.R.
I was hoping that you would show us on paper how much elevation you got with a few strokes of the file.
Thanks for the video.
At 21 yards, and a 8 inch sight separation, you we can expect about 100 times the sight movement. Or, taking off a hundredth of an inch of front sight should raise point of impact approximately one inch. I can’t speculate about how much is removed with the file stroke. For example, where the sight is thin more will be removed with a stroke than where it becomes thicker. I’d hate to recommend what might be difficult to replace. If someone removes the rounded part of the Remington front sight, it can raise impact 8 inches at 22 yards. Hope this helps some. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you, I just thought it would be interesting and informative to show a visual of how the process works.
By the way, the other day I said that there are two loads. A pure target load and a full power load, I forgot about the paper cartridge load.
I recently acquired an Eras Gone mold for the 36 Colt Navy and the tools to make paper cartidges.
It should be fun.
Thanks for all you do.
John Davis Jax Fl
@@johnndavis7647 I agree. As I was responding I thought the same that there could be a place for a visual diagram of the geometry of the sighting system. Be interested to hear if you think a video about that would be a good idea for a winter video project. Also any ideas you might have on what to include. After what you have already suggested, something like how to measure how much to remove. I forget that most shooters can’t leave the range, put the gun in their shop vice and be back testing in 5 minutes. A chart or formula would be fairly easy to put together as a guide or starting point for knowing how much to remove. Maybe if I google it there is already plenty of information already to be had.
I had fun making some paper cartridges. It was a winter project and actually never shot any, didn’t matter, the fun part was in the making. Never got to creating packaging like Mark H has done, but that also sounds like a great project. I think I have 3 or 4 of his molds. Would like to test shooting that more traditional bullet system VS the lube at the end of the cylinders. I like to see how accuracy compares after 10-15 shots, but suppose that is a bit trite as in the day that probably wasn’t as important as just getting it to shoot. Have fun with the project. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 my experience is with fix sighted longrifles. I figure out what patch, ball and charge the rifle likes first.
Then I shoot it off a rest and I drift the sights left or right to center the group then I file the front sight a bit and shoot a group, then file a few strokes and shoot another group.
Basically, I walk the group up the target until I get it hitting where I want it. It's by guess and by gosh,
No science or match involved.
With revolvers it's similar except
That there is enough standardization
That some math could be useful.
@@johnndavis7647 Right. I do pretty much the same with the fixed sights on handguns. Most times there’s no way to drift the sights. If the front sight is too low on a smoke pole, make another. If it’s too low on the revolver, especially a SAA, well, it ain’t so easy. The math could be handy to determine if there is a wide enough front to correct for windage by narrowing it on one side or the other. O.R.
I used to own and shoot a Ruger Old Army. I would love to have another cap and ball revolver again.
If you don't mind me asking what area of Wisconsin. Sometimes can be a short shooting season there. The Ruger is a fine gun for sure. Maybe I'm just not used to cleaning it, but to me, the older style guns break down easier if one wants to do the insides. Can't imagine doing to a Glock or S&W what I have done to the black powder guns like the Rem's and Colt reps. Not sure they would ever get back together. Actually sort of enjoy cleaning the old BP guns. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I'm in South Texas now. I had the stainless Old Army. Washed with soapy water, rinsed then oiled. Easy.
@@larryfromwisconsin9970 Ok I get it, just a little slow. Larry "from" Wisconsin. Thanks for the reply and cleaning advice. O.R.
@@larryfromwisconsin9970 My complements Sir. As a kid I always admired and wanted to be like my hero, the Lone Ranger. My brother set up my UA-cam channel for me. guess he figured the Old Ranger was a fair match for me, and what I was presenting on the channel. Hope that explains the handle. O.R.
Beautiful gun. Very nice shooting.
One of my Pietta Remington revolvers shot lower than yours was with round balls so I bought some 200gr conical and fired them with 26grs 3fg. Now it hits dead on. There's nothing wrong with a conical shooter in the collection! Bye the way, great shooting!
Thanks Michael. Maybe you’ve seen the comparison I did between conicals and round balls in a 58 Pietta ? Would like to hear more what you think if you view it. Thanks for the thumbs up 👍. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 I just watched your conical vs round ball video as you requested! Your shooting, once again, is superb! Coincidentally, this morning I shot 2 of my Pietta 1851 Navies, one with 130gr conical and one with .380 RB. The offhand group with the conical was, by far, best. Then, this afternoon I shot yet another of my 8 Navies with round ball, offhand at 30' into a 1" hole. I don't remember the group size of my Remington 1858 with conical, the same ones that you used but at 16yds, with 2 hand offhand hold it grouped as well as my round ball guns, I do believe the slower conical stays in the barrel longer during recoil which is why it shot to point of aim where a RB shot low. I also notice that the better I feel the better I shoot. I also feel you will shoot most everything well because you are careful, observant, experienced, consistent and experienced. Thanks Ranger!
@@michaelcarey3105 Thanks again, not sure 🤔 if I meet all those, but I am persistent, and have been given pretty steady nerves and don’t have a flinch when shooting handguns. But, long guns and especially shotguns are a different story. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself today, and that’s important. And, then there’s the cleaning, but sounds like you done well, and so did the guns.
I believe too that the heavier slug is moving 100 or maybe 200 FPS slower. The barrel will have recoiled up slightly more when it exits. Also there is more recoil (feels that way to me), and this adds to it’s lift. I’ll bet if a person grips lower, there even be more effect. Seems to me that increasing or decreasing powder charge has little or no effect on the group because increasing recoil decreases barrel time, they trend to cancel each other, so I’m not too concerned about exact powder weighing.
I’m closing down for the winter. I’m sort of a shoot-a-holic, so to not have my place, me, and family freeze solid, I have to stop and prepare. Like frosty the snow man, I hope to be back next year. Good luck - keep safe. O.R.
Amazing grouping.
Outstanding video! Oh that makes me soo dang excited. I just bought mine to day and gave her a down to the bones once over, no adjustments or polishing. She’s a little rough, but shouldn’t take too long to wear in nice. I have two now, the one I bought from before came as a packaged deal. I was in college at the time and happened by a owner/operator store. He had just bought the 1858 Remington 44 steel, 1851 Navy 36 brass, and 1862 pocket 31 brass. Think I paid 160ish for all of em and he made like 60$. I put the girls through the shit as best I could, and figured it’s now time for a real lady. Idk hwat the eff they dressed her in but I’m strongly considering Maple Burl/Crotch Walnut to sexy that ass up. If you made it this far smash the like, ❤️
I've made some from curly maple for both the 1851's and 1858 Pietta rems. Difficult to get the fit to backstrap. I believe when manufactured that the wood is set in and then filed or sanded to match the metal strap. This is why the grips are numbered so that after the metal is finished the grip goes back on the correct gun. Therefore, I believe that most are not exactly interchangeable. If a person works slowly, the result is very acceptable, but probably not as close as the original that comes with the gun. Just my thoughts. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I’ve not tried a 51 yet, I will once I can pick up a nice 36 cal. I can see how it may be a bit of a challenge to fit the straps in. I’ll have to get a chunk of wood and try it. I love custom grips. Have a piece of Weng sitting on the desk.
@@txdocprich_8404 Right. The manufacturer has an edge because they can finish the back strap after they have fit the wood to it. Figure that's how they get the exact fit; they don't have to worry about messing it up. O.R.
I got mine a week ago we its great. I had to purchase a extra cylinder for black powder. The conversion cylinders are very expensive I would rather buy another revolver. I will probably get a .36 caliber police. Or maybe another .44 snub. Great presentation and shooting really well done. Thank you
Thanks for the positive comments. I agree that the conversion cylinders are pricy. I thought about ordering one in 45 ACP because I like reloading that round, but suppose the price and wondering exactly why I was doing it held me back. I like your ideas about trying some different style BP guns. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I also reload the 45apc and 7 other calibers in all. Someone sent a message they make a cylinder in 45apc . Something to think about now!
@@m2gjam139 Be cautious if you have the actual shooter's model, the one that costs around $900. I have found that the cylinders for that and the more standard model do not quite interchange, at least in the ones I have. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Unfortunately I don't have the shooters model LOL. I think I will leave well enough alone. I will stick to Black powder Thank you for the heads up
And they're used to make I'm not sure allowing the bullet to move slower will raise The Impact point. Because the projectile stays in the boar longer during recoil. I noticed that when I shoot my 7 1/2 inch super Blackhawks loosening your grip will allow the group to raise up just a little bit. But that can prove to be inconsistent. Luckily my super Blackhawks have adjustable sights. A gunsmith can jig that gun up and input a torque in the barrel or even move the site a little bit to the left and that will bring the shot placement to the right
@@44hawk28 Ya, it still remains a mystery to me. I’m of course assuming that the replicas are close copies of the originals, without the gain twist rifling. One would assume the Army would have wanted all they contracted for to do about the same thing as far as sighting goes. Yet, both Army and Navy Colts shoot notorious high, while Remingtons shoot low. Folks will point out that the Military wanted them sighted for 100 yds, which makes little sense to me, but if so, then why did they accept Remingtons that might hit the horse in the leg when trying for a chest shot on the rider?? Thanks for your comment and advice. O.R.
Great shooting!
Topping the cans off with water would dramatically increase the shock effect.
And since i read from L to R, i assumed (wrongly) you'd aim at the Left can first . . . ☆
@@fjb4932 Interesting. Never gave that much thought, possibly because that’s the order they’re filled. Also, that’s a great idea of topping off which would give more hydraulic pressure without air compression. It’s always interesting to see how the entry point appears to look like the bullet exited the way the metal is pushed outward. Thanks for your comment. O.R.
This gentleman can shoot.
Does anyone else find this particular gun's sound (around 7:29) to somewhat resemble Dirty Harry's 44?
My 58 uses a 454 ball and a touch of crisco over each cylinder x6. Mine is a early Euro Arms from early 60's and noxo polished frame. FFg of 30grains and a 454 minie bullet wrapped in a paper cartridge goes 100 yards with a six inch drop.
That's impressive at that distance; heck, I don't think I can see that far anymore. The first black powder revolver I purchased was from that time zone; a 1861 navy imported by Replica Arms, made by Uberti. Those older ones I feel are in a class by themselves. O.R.
Thank you for this & excellent shoot in’ there pardner
Outstanding just love it. Many thanks
That's some great shooting there. Once you got that front site filed I would have loved to have seen you go after the paper target again but you sure shot the devil out of those Coke cans. Proof positive that even though that is a black powder pistol it doesn't mean it isn't deadly. Because it for sure is.
Great grouping! I just bought a Pietta 1851 Navy brass frame 44 , it groups great but shoots high about the same distance yours shoots low.
Very typical of the colt style. They have a low front sight compared to the Remington's. Don't believe I've come across one yet that doesn't shoot high. Most folks figure they were that way so they could shoot at 75-100 yards. I'm not so sure about that, seems like then the Remington's should be sighted the same then, if that's what the military wanted--savvy ?? O.R.
Dang it man, that shooting is good. You need to leave the bench to even make it slightly exciting, for us viewers, to guess the next hit
I think my guns and loads are ready. I'm hoping to do some of that; but there a couple of issues. For one, I don't have a camera person. Another is that at my age I'd rather be heard than seen. And probably the largest is that I want the video to be about the gun rather than my ability (or in-abilities).(How about that for a pack of excuses?) Nothing against that type of video, they can be very interesting and worthy. That said, I really appreciate the comment and encouragement. I might put together something on point-shooting with a S.A.A. Maybe there would be some interest in what I've learned, and that would involve plenty of anticipation and misses. O.R.
Good stuff, up to the point no bullshit talk. Great shooter too.
Excellent grouping ..!
Wow, the precision of the 1858 pistol without grooves is very accurate. Also the shooter is a marksman 😉
@@skynet.yousha Hi, thanks. This replica of the 1858 Remington does have groves (rifling). O.R.
looking at your gun i kinda regret to had mine in brass, still looks good , but god your's is a masterpiece
Can’t remember if I mentioned that it came with an extra engraved cylinder. 😎. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 oh perfect so u can share with me hahaha
@@rayto_V2 Hold on there Pardner, need some time to ponder that. I will admit, it would look pretty cool in that brarssie frame. In fact, I just slid it in to see, and included the picture at the very end of a video on using wads. That is part of a five part series on testing different loading methods, and should have it done shortly. Hope you can find it. Title something like Pietta-1860 Army - Shooting using wads. O.R.
Wow that is some really nice shooting Sir.
Thanks...I know I had some luck with me, but that gun can shoot. O.R.
Great shooting.
Very , very good. Best regard from Italy.
Thank you. Always enjoy hearing from outside U.S., especially where they are made. Good quality, price and selections. O.R.
thats very impressive accuracy
Crazy accurate!
Great shooting
Great revolver, great shooter, and GREATEST use for a can of carbonated high fructose corn syrup!
@@johnnelson9252 Dang right, thanks. And nobody figures feeding what is used to fatten hogs (I realize it’s not exactly the same) corn, will fatten the human population. Da. We ate, and drank (cool aid) as kids a lot of sugar, and most of us could still fit both legs into a car. O.R.
Instead of packing the cylinders full of Crisco and splattering it all over the place, I put a drop of oil in each cylinder over the ball - as it says to do in the old Colt manuals - which achieves the same purpose and is a hell of a lot less messy. By the way - My first two black powder guns were an 1860 Colt Army replica and a cased .44 Remington replica with accessories. I still have the Remington after 48 years.
Excellent! What type of oil?? Lots of old muzzle loading patches used whale oil for patch lube as the story goes. My first was a 1861 by Replica Arms (Italian import of course), got it back in the 60's. Still have that one also. Good to have old friends around. O.R.
You're a darn good shot man, have you ever competed in any competitions? If so id think its a safe bet you have some trophies to show for it.
Thanks for the complement, and for watching. I get lucky sometimes with the group size, as my eye resolution with those sights only allows for about a inch and a half at that distance. I have shot competition, mostly local, and you're right, do have some stuff. Once I won a 16 foot R-K tepee lodge at a black powder rifle shoot -- that was when I could see both the sights and the target. You might know what I'm talking about, or hopefully will live long enough to find out. Thanks again for the interest. Hopefully I will be posting more, my brother brought 4 guns to test. I have another yet to post. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 ill be looking forward to seeing the next video, thanks for sharing
@@oldranger3044 i know what you're talking about, and im only 26. at least it cant get any worse!
I don't mean to be the hair splitting critic, but you do know if the cylinder has safety notches in between chambers you don't need to leave a empty chamber..
Just load all six, and then lay the hammer down in between Chambers on that safety notch, rock or try to rotate the cylinder side to side make sure the cylinder is not going to rotate, and you're ready to go.
thanks, I have more experience with the colts, so loading 5 is more out of habit. thanks again. O.R.
Dávám filmové ucpávky super přesná zbraň až na to čištění ❤❤🤔👍
Nice tight group!
God Bless
Nice! I have 2 I use for reenacting that I now need to try out at the range.
Thanks. No doubt I got somewhat lucky, but these guns can shoot. When I miss, I want to know it was me, not the gun. I'll usually shoot off the bench first to get a better idea of what the gun is capable of. Good luck at the range, stay safe. O.R.
Pretty shootin iron, good shootin to match 👏🏻