That's not his controllers... I mean that's not his invention. It is normal BLDC ESC with back emf sensing and measuring current unit. On that data you can do whatever you want, for example FOC (Field Oriented Control)
@Ma R believe me, it isn't possible to get the position (which you need for FOC) at standstill and low-speed using back-emf ;-) Back-emf does not exist at standstill. One need some sort of HFI which is not like you call it 'normal BLDC ESC' for sure.
@@skycurve875 There's a workaround to that, you can input a balanced 3 phase current in your stator and produce a rotating field from that. The rotor will follow the stator field and once the motor is spinning you can estimate rotor position from back EMF and switch to FOC control. I don't think you can do that to run a position control such as in your video, though.
That's looks amazing, and also mind-boggling. The sensorless Position tracking means If I'm not wrong, ur injecting High frequency current into the stator poles and measuring the change in inductance due to Rotor magnets Position (aka Rotor pos.). Correct me if im wrong. Can you share the specs of your motor controller. And what else control algorithm your using to keep both motor in tune with each other. Thanks.
chris is everywhere... I might ask you since you probably know: what is the smallest size position controlled motor you can use, that can go multiple revolutions with good torque? Like a classical hobby servo, but it doesnt have endstops.
your project is awesome, I've been looking for something like that, but all projects have its limitations... VESC does not run easily in low speeds, SimpleFOC only works with sensored motors... I'm looking forward to know how you did it. Even if you sell it, please remember to documentate well how to use it, the other platforms just assume you already know everything about BLDC, or assume you don't want to understand any of the engineering behind it and just want to use it right out of the box.
Hallo Andreas, ich hab mir deinen Blog angesehen. Beeindruckend deine Arbeit über die vielen Jahre. Frage: Kann man dein Konzept auch für größere bldc Motoren mit 3 Phasen, 310VDC, 3A, 48 Magnetpolen und 36 Spulen anwenden ?
Hallo, ich denke das sollte möglich sein. Allerdings habe ich keine Hardware, welche so hohe Spannungen unterstützt. Hierfür müsste man eine andere Leistungsstufe entwickeln.
@@skycurve875Bezüglich größerer Leistungsstufe für 3-ph 310VDC: Kann man dein Konzept zusammen mit dem Steval CMT011V1 anwenden ? Der ist lieferbar und kann 3phasig bis 600VDC und 5A.
If the motor is moved during the controller is powered off it will loose the absolute position. The relative position will be recalculated on next power on.
On the schematic there is nothing special, any controller with current sensing on at least 2 phases (low-side or in-phase) can be used. Firmware is not public.
Nice work, man! Were you able to measure the precision of your angle estimation for that control? Or you're not estimating the rotation angle at all? It got me thinking...
Could you please clarify what sensor-less means here ? According to my understanding if we use sensor-less rotor position algorithm it gives rotor position for electrical degree what repeat itself every rotor pole-pair. However you are able to control mechanical angle what probably not possible with conventional sensor-less rotor position detection algorithm.
Notice at the start of vid.( before the beginning ), the motors were already powered up...& initialisation done..... Then vid. started. @ every new power up initialisation is done... Physical orientation of rotor initially aligned ( approx.) beforehand..then they are powered up .
I have only 3 different outrunnter BLDCs. The one shown in the video and two other smaller ones (~120Watt). All three can be run at full torque sensorless from standstill. Btw. you have an interesting channel!
I'm not sure if one can run sensorless stepper motors in closed loop which you need for this kind of force feedback. With position sensors that should work.
@Ma R: you can run steppers easily sensorless, but it's not easy to get their actual position without position sensors. That is required for the force feedback mode shown in the video. In most applications steppers are run sensorless in open loop. That's why they loose steps if you hold them in place forcefully during operation. Most controllers run them 'blindly' without knowing if they were actually able to reach the given position.
Impressive! Is your motor controller able to establish an absolute position which doesn't change when the setup is powered off for a while (even when the motor was moved when powered off)? I.e can your implementation fully replace an absolute position encoder?
I think he is using some sort of phase counter in his programming so I don’t think it will remember the position after powering down, but I might be completely wrong.
That's not possible to remember exact position without using absolute encoder or resolver. Other way no one would be using those very expensive encoders in industrial systems.
It is possible to know the absolute position after restart using my controller only if you don't move the rotor during the controller is turned off. Expensive industrial encoders have a built-in battery and monitor the rotor position all the time.
I'm so sorry I just found your video just now. This is magnificent. Very well done.
Very impressive position tracking at low speed and high torque for a sensorless setup.
Great demonstration! Your controller has some great features. I can see it being very popular if you can make it work with a range of BLDC motors.
That's not his controllers... I mean that's not his invention. It is normal BLDC ESC with back emf sensing and measuring current unit. On that data you can do whatever you want, for example FOC (Field Oriented Control)
@Ma R believe me, it isn't possible to get the position (which you need for FOC) at standstill and low-speed using back-emf ;-)
Back-emf does not exist at standstill. One need some sort of HFI which is not like you call it 'normal BLDC ESC' for sure.
@@skycurve875 There's a workaround to that, you can input a balanced 3 phase current in your stator and produce a rotating field from that. The rotor will follow the stator field and once the motor is spinning you can estimate rotor position from back EMF and switch to FOC control. I don't think you can do that to run a position control such as in your video, though.
That is some fine control action!
被您的演示震惊到了，完全不明白如何做到，一点声音都没有把位置估算出来，太厉害了！
Great job! Respect! Would be nice to know more about the underlying theory.
From the power supply the system draws 0.4A when not moving, that's 9.6W idle power consumption, a bit large isn't it?
the intro is 🔥🔥🔥
That's looks amazing, and also mind-boggling. The sensorless Position tracking means If I'm not wrong, ur injecting High frequency current into the stator poles and measuring the change in inductance due to Rotor magnets Position (aka Rotor pos.). Correct me if im wrong. Can you share the specs of your motor controller. And what else control algorithm your using to keep both motor in tune with each other. Thanks.
this is amazing . thankyou for sharing
Instant subscribe !! :)
chris is everywhere... I might ask you since you probably know: what is the smallest size position controlled motor you can use, that can go multiple revolutions with good torque? Like a classical hobby servo, but it doesnt have endstops.
Thank you. Excellent work! Can you share the details of how this works in software?
Any chance you'd open source this project or, sell ESC's?
I agree with you
That's easy as hell... If you have to copy-paste other's projects let's change your job.
Great project!
Excellent job. Thanks
Very interesting work! Do you have any plans to eventually sell these? Thanks
your project is awesome, I've been looking for something like that, but all projects have its limitations... VESC does not run easily in low speeds, SimpleFOC only works with sensored motors... I'm looking forward to know how you did it. Even if you sell it, please remember to documentate well how to use it, the other platforms just assume you already know everything about BLDC, or assume you don't want to understand any of the engineering behind it and just want to use it right out of the box.
Hallo Andreas,
ich hab mir deinen Blog angesehen. Beeindruckend deine Arbeit über die vielen Jahre.
Frage: Kann man dein Konzept auch für größere bldc Motoren mit 3 Phasen, 310VDC, 3A, 48 Magnetpolen und 36 Spulen anwenden ?
Hallo,
ich denke das sollte möglich sein. Allerdings habe ich keine Hardware, welche so hohe Spannungen unterstützt. Hierfür müsste man eine andere Leistungsstufe entwickeln.
@@skycurve875Bezüglich größerer Leistungsstufe für 3-ph 310VDC: Kann man dein Konzept zusammen mit dem Steval CMT011V1 anwenden ? Der ist lieferbar und kann 3phasig bis 600VDC und 5A.
Hi very impressive.. mostly the part it is without any sensor. Do you use the permanent magnets to detect the actual position? Thank you
will it remember the position when you power off the motor and turn it back on?
If the motor is moved during the controller is powered off it will loose the absolute position. The relative position will be recalculated on next power on.
what motors are you using here? those look to be the perfect power for what i'm looking for
Turnigy SK3 6354 260kv
Wow cooles Video!
Wo kann ich deine esc‘s kaufen, suche seit Jahren nach so etwas
I wanna know how you control both motor sensorless or without encoder
Read about FOC (Field Oriented Control) and sensorless bldc control
Amazing, would like to buy few units!
Hallo, verkaufst du auch deine Komponenten? MfG.
how can I buy this speed controller ?
totally cool!
How can you measure the rotor position without sensor ? even in the very low speed domain ?
Great Job!
YO nice job is PCB gerbeg aviable?? or atleast schematic with code??
On the schematic there is nothing special, any controller with current sensing on at least 2 phases (low-side or in-phase) can be used. Firmware is not public.
Nice work, man! Were you able to measure the precision of your angle estimation for that control? Or you're not estimating the rotation angle at all? It got me thinking...
🔥🔥🔥
Can you program these bldc's to be joy stick controlled with feedback to the stick?
Depending on the joy stick controller that should be possible.
Awesome! man.
Could you please clarify what sensor-less means here ?
According to my understanding if we use sensor-less rotor position algorithm it gives rotor position for electrical degree what repeat itself every rotor pole-pair. However you are able to control mechanical angle what probably not possible with conventional sensor-less rotor position detection algorithm.
Notice at the start of vid.( before the beginning ), the motors were already powered up...& initialisation done.....
Then vid. started.
@ every new power up initialisation is done...
Physical orientation of rotor initially aligned ( approx.) beforehand..then they are powered up .
@@analoghardwaretops3976 Correctly!
can you share to me the documents of theory
Brilliant!😮🌟👏🏼
Awesome.
How much torque are you achieved at 0 rpm with different motors?
I have only 3 different outrunnter BLDCs.
The one shown in the video and two other smaller ones (~120Watt).
All three can be run at full torque sensorless from standstill.
Btw. you have an interesting channel!
can you tell us the name of the BLCD motor that you use?
Turnigy SK3 6354 260kv
How is your Motor Controller different than standard ESC ?
Standard ESCs have only voltage measurement. My algorithm requires current sensing on at least 2 (better 3) phases (low-side or in-phase).
Nice :)
Faking extremely high inertia would be fun too.
Would it be possible to implement this method also for stepper motors?
I'm not sure if one can run sensorless stepper motors in closed loop which you need for this kind of force feedback. With position sensors that should work.
@@skycurve875 of course you can, that's the idea of using stepper motors.
@Ma R: you can run steppers easily sensorless, but it's not easy to get their actual position without position sensors. That is required for the force feedback mode shown in the video. In most applications steppers are run sensorless in open loop. That's why they loose steps if you hold them in place forcefully during operation.
Most controllers run them 'blindly' without knowing if they were actually able to reach the given position.
Impressive! Is your motor controller able to establish an absolute position which doesn't change when the setup is powered off for a while (even when the motor was moved when powered off)? I.e can your implementation fully replace an absolute position encoder?
I think he is using some sort of phase counter in his programming so I don’t think it will remember the position after powering down, but I might be completely wrong.
That's not possible to remember exact position without using absolute encoder or resolver. Other way no one would be using those very expensive encoders in industrial systems.
It is possible to know the absolute position after restart using my controller only if you don't move the rotor during the controller is turned off. Expensive industrial encoders have a built-in battery and monitor the rotor position all the time.
@@skycurve875 that makes sense
steer by wire ?
In theory it would be possible, but I think such a security application should still have a mechanical fallback.
great 😊
Is the code available on github?
But how do they determine the positions without sensors?
By injecting some special voltages and observing the currents.
i'm waiting for someone to build a very expensive clock.
You maybe share thía project. Thanks
digital gear ratio
Lol you can see the smps in the back jump in current
What else did you expect it to do
@@preddy09
True, but I still find it funny that it does.
que onda mano ! 😮
Motor?
Turnigy SK3 6354 260kv
What is this saucerry???😵💫
How can i make it please reply
советские технологии.