If you want your college fully paid for, Get a job at UPS, become a part time supervisor, which requires no college degree or no experience and they will pay fully pay for your college. No books, or whatever cost comes, they will cover it.
“Financially irresponsible 18-year-olds” is a bit disingenuous. The vast majority of student loans are co-signed by parents (as the 18-year-old usually lacks credit history). Now, those parents may be equally, if not more irresponsible than their kid, but the blame does not fall entirely (or even mostly) on the student. Parents are often the ones doing the majority of navigating through the labyrinth of financial aid packages from scholarships, loans, grants, work-study and other options.
I'd say that the blame mostly lies with the parents unless they're completely ignorant. It's the responsibility of the parents to guide their children and to at least try to prevent them from making stupid decisions. Teachers and guidance counselors can also be blamed sometimes. One thing I realized about high school years later is how there were a lot of kids who weren't being warned that the degree they want to get is worthless or their dream school is too expensive and will leave them financially crippled for the rest of their life. Most kids at 17-18 don't really know a whole lot about life and the real world, and their brains aren't even fully developed until they turn 25. To give you an example, I remember someone giving a presentation about different careers and their salaries. One of those jobs paid $30,000 per year, and the kids actually thought was a very good salary (this was back in 2015, so it wasn't that good). They had no clue about how much it really costs to live on their own because they never experienced paying bills as an independent adult. Imagine trusting someone like that to make a serious financial decision like taking out loans to pay for college. They probably wouldn't be that wise about it. When I was 18 I also wanted to get a degree in international studies at an expensive private university but my uncle was caring enough to warn me that I would most likely be in debt for the rest of my life if I did that and also wouldn't be able to find a decent job. I'm really glad he told me that because I didn't know what the consequences of that decision were until he told me. When I was 18 I was totally clueless about what life is like in the real world and didn't even know what a credit score was.
Federal Student loans, except for the parent plus loan do not need a cosigner. The government guaranteed the loan. Private companies often don't ask for a cosigner since private student loans are very difficult to discharge in bankruptcy so the companies have less incentive to tighten their underwriting standards.
@@wmpx34 Pretty sure unchecked exploitation is corruption, capitalism is the word used often in place of corruption or of a failed system but rarely does it apply.
I went to community college, then local state school for comp Sci, because pops had cancer and money was stretched thin… worked my butt off for a software engineering internship… Now 4 year at an Investment Bank as a software engineer making 6 figures. Path definitely could’ve been easier, but we each have different paths to our goals. Keep grinding.
Smart plan. Smart school choices, good career pick that companies want at that time. Lots of young ppl do what feels right instead of looking at the landscape and studying what career would make sense. Most times you have a work job you can tolerate to ultimately live the life you want.
I think it is important to work hard, but I think it is even more important to work smart. You went to a community college to save money. You then further your education at a state school, which is much cheaper than a private university. You choose a degree path with high income potential. As someone with a similar career path excluding state school, I like to chuck it up to all hard work as well, but I think it has a lot more to deal with those intelligent decisions that were made. You take someone that chooses a degree in the arts, and you throw a private university on top of it with a private student loans. I don't care how hard that person works. As in the immortal words of tiger king, I'm never going to financially recover from this.
When only 10% (of population) had a degree (from any college) it meant something but today if you went to a mediocre college that 50% or more had went to (or better college) then it doesn’t matter much anymore.
Also depends on if the state demands the piece of paper even if irrelevant. For example, in most states now, they've actually essentially mandated a person get a Master's degree just to get a Certified Public Accountant license - even though most folks STILL pay another $2500 for a prep course before taking the exam! Eliminate the requirement, let folks do an old-school apprenticeship, and I guarantee they'd be better prepared for actually being a CPA.
I lived at home, worked 35 hrs a week and went to a state school. Started working in my field in junior year and graduated with no debt. Dorming and getting the “college experience” is the biggest scam. Most kids I know that went away to school didn’t even go to prestigious schools, they just went away just because.
Working (or interning) while in college is huge. I'm a hiring manager in data science, and I'll hire a philosophy major with relevant work experience right out of school, but I'm less likely to hire someone with a degree in our field but no real world experience.
You missed state technical colleges in your essay, a huge blind spot. Most careers of any value (nursing, trades, IT, applied arts like graphic design, and law clerk) you can get at a state technical college. It used to have a stigma attached to it, still does in some places, but you earn only slightly less than a college grad for a fraction of the tuition. And in my personal experience the quality of education is as good or better because your instructors actually did the work in the real world.
Great point! If you ran a longterm comparison of something like becoming a veterinarian versus a vet tech (at a technical school), the payoff period of being a vet would be very lengthy.
I tried to convince my son to go to tech school but he refused. He wants the clout of the university label. I refused to sign on his student loans. He's on his own now, going to university.
@@nsff2001able I would not discount university programs; especially engineering schools or programs that emphasize applied skills. One does have to be a lot more careful when shopping around for a university degree. Computer Science or Business Management degrees, for example, are usually worthless. And don't even get me started on game design degrees.
@@LesserAndrew If you compare the value of a BS in ComSci against an AS in CompSci you've got a more apples to apples comparison. BS Starting Salary: Around $70K AS Starting Salary: Around $65K but usually match BS after the two additional years of earnings. And your degree costs about 70% less.
Went to community college, then transferred to a public university to finish a life science degree. I did not have any scholarships or financial assistance. Got a job as a bench chemist at a pharma company, and this company then paid for my masters. I now make 6 figures and have never had any school debt or financial assistance. Additionally, the cost of education in the US is directly related to the government guaranteeing student loans. If the government stopped doing this, the cost of tuition would drop virtually overnight.
As already exemplified by the "generational poverty" endemic in inner city communities, cutting off even more paths to upwards socioeconomic mobility would simply turn America into a _de_ _facto_ caste society. Instead, the government - rather than taking the welfare capitalism approach of subsidizing demand (through, e.g., student aid programs) - should take the state capitalism approach of supplementing supply (by, e.g., requiring educational institutions that accept federal funds [incl. student aid] to provide certain programs at an income- and/or wealth-driven cost to the student).
You just confirmed my own experience of getting a degree. When younger people ask me about it, I always give them two pieces of advice: 1) You should NOT try to get a degree if you weren't in the top third of your class in high school. 2) You only sign up for a STEM degree that has a high market value.
Depends on what you study, but I'm willing to grant that someone who thinks through the process is also considering the salary at the other end of the diploma.
I doubt it since the math required is at the level of first year algebra, which isn't worth any money. That gives me an idea. The math of student loans, debt, investments, compounding interest, etc. should be covered in Algebra 1 then quickly reviewed repeatedly in Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry, Calculus, high school Economics, etc. It should be repeated because of its importance and just in case some kids didn't listen the first or second times. edit. And go over the lesson again for kids who moved in from other school districts that didn't cover such an important lesson.
We can not have a logical conversation about this without breaking down the type and number of degrees the younger generations are getting into debt for. These points are too generalized.
Exactly. However, you also need to factor in the kind of student, the focus of the school (is it actually meant for educating students or a place where PhDs can focus on getting published as many large state schools in the US are), and the expectations in the classroom. It is far more complicated, but we can generalize that if your goal is to go to school to party and not learn and you don't have daddy's purse to pay off your loans, you are going to be in trouble.
If this were 10 years ago maybe. But we've reached a critical mass point where even graduate of the most disciplined graduates are beginning to struggle in the job market. Its weird and I know a lot of smart hard working people with more debt than I'll ever have as a drop out and our jobs pay THE SAME
Agreed, degrees have vastly different pay scales, so a "successful" graduate who isn't underemployed will make vastly different amounts of money. And some degrees are worthless for almost anything but teaching the subject (Librarian is one of the worst historically, and what exactly are you going to do with a degree in stuff like Women's Studies?).
Took 4 years for bachelors of medical science, graduated with a 4.0 GPA ( I also wasn't the smartest), tried applying to medical school, got rejected twice, and my degree means nothing for medical field. Applied to hospitals but said my degree didn't matter they just want certificates or experience, but still the pay was low. -best advice I could give in your last two semesters take something useful in life, like learn a semester how to code and learn a new language.
This is democrat propaganda to get you to vote for Joe Biden. A computer science degree earns you figures. Thats all you have to do. Is pick a degree in a field that will earn you money. A degree in harry potter wont do shtt. Why don't you understand that?
There is two paths that are smart bets: post secondary or entrepreneur. You do trades/uni/diploma program and you get higher pay; you start buying and selling at 18 and you can make bank. Just going to get a job you can with a high school diploma? Let’s play that out. 18 to 23 they go from picker to fork lift operator, the. 23 to 27 they get supervisor, then maybe at 35 a warehouse manager job for like 80k (hr would pay 120k minimum if the degree checkbox was checked lol). Pretty good, no? Now lets say you get a business management degree and do warehouse jobs in the summers and then graduate to a warehouse manager job for 120k lmfao 13 years saved. But you got debt… lol
Went to college and became a teacher. My job security is great, my benefits are good, I have an employer match for retirement of 5%, (which increases with age). Everyone’s experience will vary (especially by state) but I don’t have regrets. But I also did community college.
I lucked out in that I was poor and couldn't afford college and all the teachers, counselors, and schools told me I wasn't good enough for college and couldn't handle the work. Went into programming and quickly made 100k+ with no college debt. Then I had work pay for my school and went from 0 to masters in 3.5 years (double enrolled taking max credits at both while working 40 and travelling 20 hours a week). Only go to college if you must have the physical resources. Chem, Bio, Med, etc need to have onsite interaction and residency placement so you are forced into paying for it. The rest can pretty much all be learned on your own. If you must go, find the cheapest way. Go to community college for your general eds and transfer. Most of the people I knew in their 20s going to college were working a job to pay for college and only taking out student loans for minimal tuition.
Clearly, you're a pretty capable person - not the kind to end up barely scraping by despite receiving a(n) (albeit, mediocre) college education. By and large, _those_ people appear to simply be doomed to a life of austerity these days.
European here. I remember when I was about to finish my law degree there was an academic fair where some US colleges came to sell a extra degree to us. Oh boy... they wen on and on and on... we have a sports colliseum a fitness center an artificial beach... for the low low price of... Some rich kids were genuinely interested for some academic flavoured holidays in the US. Us normies said that if we wanted to hang out a year at an artifcial beach there probably would be way cheaper ways to achieve THAT.
These prices seem insane to me. I live in Germany and I'm studying to get a bachelor's degree and my current tuition fee is roughly 350€(~380 USD) for each semester, which will amount to just over 3000 USD in total.
I'm in STEM, one of the mistakes that videos like this make is it shows a salary and it, whether mistakenly or intentionally, equates an engineering degree w/ a guaranteed job. But what it doesn't show is the number of people who graduate w/ an aeronautical degree that work in that field. From personal observations, I'd estimate that maybe 10-15% of people in STEM actually work in their field of study. While many others are removed from the industry due to economic forces.
If you want to determine if going to college is actually worth it or not, there’s a video that goes over the steps involved with picking a career/degree that actually provides job prospects after college Search “gamification of life they should have taught this in school” I tried linking it before but my comment didn’t go through
For some reason the vid doesn’t show up when you search it on the bar, but if you search the channel “gamification of life” you can find it in his recent videos
When I was 15. I had a old lady who was my neighbor gave me financial advice. I remembered her telling me to never ever take a loan unless I know I can pay it back right away or before the term. Her advice saved me sooo much over the years. She was the real reason why I never took out student loans or got a car note as well. When I was in college I learned that it wasn’t for me and I didn’t like seeing how this degree wasn’t gonna promise me anything but I am paying money out for something that wasn’t gonna keep its promise
One of the biggest issues with colleges that we are forcing kids to get degrees they honestly could care less about because culturally we think going to college is a key to success. I think it's very unfair to compare someone who went to school and got a degree in engineering making six figures compared to someone who went to school for political science to get a bachelor's and never using it .
This wasnt touched on in the video, but in terms of interesting student loans, here in the UK, interest on student loans begin acuring from THE DAY you take out the student loan, not when you finish your degree. So your balance will already be higher than what you borrowed before you're even done with uni.
It's funny I used to argue with my high school counselor who I still know to this day and go hiking with It took 15 years for me to prove the point and now she finally understands it. I did go to college for a year and then I dropped out and she thought I threw my life away I said you just wait you'll see. Now I make at least twice what she ever made in one year in her life and I don't have any college debt and I have many years more on the job experience. Especially now with all the information for free online It's more and more the case that formal very expensive college doesn't make sense for many people.
Well, high school career counselors are usually the least qualified to give any advice to students. Usually liberal arts degree holders who couldn't find jobs elsewhere and have no idea what the real job market demand looks like.
I am a product of the CUNY System (City University of NY). And I have been teaching at the NYC DOE for 25 years. Going to an in-school public university is worth the money.
I immediately dropped out after my scholarship stopped paying when I got my 2 year degree . I make 40k a year in the trades now. Not good but not terrible. I wasn’t going for a medical or stem major anyway so I ended up poor regardless 😂
I don’t understand that “up to $160,000.00” for college degree. The basic private college without any scholarships cost around $70k-$80k per year right now. So it’s $320k average cost. Ok, most people get some sort of scholarships so cost could be around $40-$50k, so around $200k for 4-year degree, but it’s not the max.
He’s looking only at base tuition, not the full cost. When you add on dorms, food, books, class fees, transportation, tuition these days is only about 50-60 percent of the overall cost. Which makes your figure far more accurate. And it’s those extra costs that drive up loan totals. A lot of financial aid, outside of loans, only covers tuition costs, not all the adjacent costs. I knew plenty of people who had all or part their tuition covered by scholarships but took out loans to cover living expenses (dorm, meal plans etc).
@@thorin01 Great points. The true "cost of college" is all of those things minus the cost that an average 18 year old worker would pay for housing and food (which is generally much less than colleges charge for room and board).
Some people go to universities for four years not because it's a path to a higher paying job but because it's more fun than having a job. Not everyone wants to start working as soon as possible to maximize their lifetime earning potential. Some people want to enjoy their lives, including, or especially, their time at university. Life is about more than collecting dollars while avoiding spending them.
Good video, but I think one piece that's missing from this analysis is what field is their degree in? I would suggest that graduates with a STEM degree are much more likely to have high earnings and pay off their loans than those that got degrees in something essentially useless. I know people that got 4-year degrees in English and now can't find a job outside of Starbucks, and are unable to pay back their loans... I would venture to guess that the majority of students unable to pay back their loans, got their degree in something that is in extremely low demand from the job market.
You need to remove S and M from STEM. Career perspectives in academic sciences (biology, chemistry, physics, math are rather mediocre. One would need to spend 5-7 years in a graduate school making 25-35k per year. Then, almost same amount of time as a postdoctorial fellow making 45-65k. All of these positions are short term contracts without benefits. If lucky you, you'll get your first Associate Prof position making 6 digits. But it will likely a fixed short term contract too. Therefore, US labs are stuffed mostly by researchers from developing countries.
In France we pay nothing. The state is paying. A college student costs roughly €12,000 per year of taxpayer money. A total cost of $50,000 for a 4 years curriculum doesn't buggle me.
I consider myself extremely lucky. Graduated back 1992, Arizona State University. Back then tuition was only $750/semester, unlimited classes. And then we had this thing called “jobs.” I managed to pay it off with part time pizza delivery and weekend computer programming. Personally, I cannot fathom how the younger generation makes it today.
Pro Tip: Go to a in-state, public university and major in something that is actually useful (you can tell if it's useful by the salary data for that degree track). You're unlikely to get into major financial issues unless you go to an out of state private school and major in something society doesn't value. I did 5 years of college, earning a masters degree, and my standard of living is better than 95+% of people in my state. Without college it wouldn't have happened. It's that simple.
Yeah I think the key is just go to a state school or get a full scholarship. I went to a no-name undergrad on a full ride and now I’m getting my MBA from a T50 school with some name recognition. No debt and my MBA is super affordable given the prestige of the university. I haven’t applied any of what I learned in college to the work I do now but there’s no way my company would hire someone without a bachelors degree.
Or we should have a system where college is affordable for anyone willing to put the work in and we have a job market where even if you didn't go to college or dropped out, you can still have a car, house and family. Not disagreeing just adding that dream world scenario
95%? Really? Are you counting your net worth after debt? A McDonald's worker making 25k is worth more than most grads for the first 10 years at least. Unless mommy and daddy paid for it. In which case nepo babies need not comment.
why not live at home with your parents too if all you're after is the cheapest path to a payday? alternative pro tip: going to a university can be a lot of fun, in addition to putting you on a career path. things like terms abroad change lives, even if they aren't the cheapest way to a degree.
College is fine if you’re a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. otherwise just go to trade school or community. People that go to party schools and major in polisci, psychology, women’s studies, criminal justice, etc. with big loans will never make sense to me
I got my BA in August of 1986, no debt. I went in state to one of the cheapest public colleges in Texas and stayed with relatives. College is still worth it, even at inflated prices, for _women_ who make up the majority of people attending college now. College graduates live longer than high school graduates and married couples with degrees tend to have more successful marriages. There are other nit-picking advantages to having a degree. When I worked as an insurance agent (a debacle, alas) college graduates(bachelors degrees) could get their certifications a couple of years sooner than people without one. Having said the foregoing, I would tell a lot of young people to acquire a skill set or two _before_ going to get a BA, you have to make enough money to live a halfway decent life.
It's not university that is the problem. Its the unfounded belief/con/scam that says firstly a degree guarantees a successful future, and that manual skills are useless. There may be more students but lots of degrees lead to dead ends and have no relevance in the real world. So it should come as no surprise that many students can find no jobs. The debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are becoming a doctor or lawyer. But if you are doing political science the career choices are probably smaller and low paying.
Getting a college degree isn't the problem. Getting the wrong college degree is the problem. Also you guys briefly touched on why employers look for college degrees. It is the easiest way to gate some basic dedication/determination/intelligence limits from the candidate pool.
It's sad that college is worth very little nowdays unless you plan on going deep into grad school or really value college experience (practically almost all undergraduate and below lvl can be taught online nowdays in terms of academic) but you have to spend a lot of money (even if you get scholarship or is from nation with cheap tuition still it costs quite a bit) and 4 years of your life to get glorified job certificate that'll gatekeep you if you don't have it.
Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy The financial institutions lobbied for this. The US is quite unique in this For some, this has turned into a form of identured labour as borrowers spend their entire working life burdened with student loans
Honestly we should allow cc debt to be discharged during bankruptcy, we will quickly so a lot of tightening up in the industry. If they couldn’t sucker 18 years to lifelong debt, they wouldn’t be giving out these loans. I went to state school, left with $17k debt which was fine. Less than the cost of a car and the interest was low. Paid off in 2 years. This is all because I got scholarships, had a job and was a resident assistant. Even spent a semester commuting from home. My sister did the name and graduated with $20k. The average at my college was $25k. No one needs to be forking over $200k for undergrad.
I don't know what you mean by inclusivity and not smart. The only college grads I know who got accepted into higher education had the gpa and performance to back it up. But believe whatever you want
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 sorry i meant being inclusive is not the same as accepting anyone who are not qualified. It's like a bank accepting borrowers with bad credit just because the bank wants everyone to have debt, but that's not how it works.
Ever since the university system was created, people would ask themselves, "what kind of opportunities will I have with this degree in 4 years, and will it be worth it?" Well, Joe Biden is taking advantage of stupid people that don't ask that question, and now WSJ is trying to help get Joe Biden elected by taking advantage of stupid people. This video is propaganda.
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 By claiming everything is racist, etc., colleges accepted students who had no business being in college. These kids got loans that they should never have taken out. The reality is that you need to be at a certain level to start college and given the state of public education, the majority of the kids are not there. The solution from colleges was to claim racism and let the bad stock in, so they can get their pay day. It's a business after all.
Fun statistics to know: 35% of all jobs today REQUIRE a college degree. Most of those jobs are also the highest paying jobs in the country. 80% of the top 10% of the wealthiest people have attended college. If you live in poverty today, you have an 80% of getting out of poverty if you attend college. Student loan debt has more to do with lack of planning and lack of understanding of personal finances.
Drop out of college with nothing to show for? Knowledge is power. Reading something valuable for just one hour increases your knowledge, no matter where that something is from. Learn, people, learn! Oh. Don’t forget to learn about value for money!
My son graduated with a bachelor and masters with no debt. He did this by working two part time jobs for the duration. He graduated with honors. Don’t believe the hype. It takes work and dedication.
I worked full time at a greenhouse during college and graduated with two degrees (Economics and Finance) and an Engineering minor and zero debt. Most of the people complaining about student loan debt spent their time getting drunk/high and either dropped out or graduated with worthless Liberal Arts degrees. They essentially took expensive multi-year vacations from adulthood with zero plan for the future.
It takes a number of other things too like a support system, usually a car or great public transportation, a stable goal etc. Kudos to your son but he had an amount of luck as well that everyone doesn't have
except for careers like doctors, it seems to me almost anything can be learned better on line at home these days, certainly computer science and most tech stuff
I am so grateful that my senior year in HS back in 1981, was one of the last years where University was free here in Australia. I remember students complaining about the $100 lab fee that we had to pay for this one Biology unit.
Basically, if you don't go for a STEM field, or a limited number of other careers that require college, and are 100% committed to graduating, you are screwed. As a note, computer science does not require a college degree. Many programmers never went to college, they just enjoy programming, and would do it anyway, so the tend to make excellent programmers. College tends to get you indoctrinated in liberal ideology, so best to avoid it if you can, or choose wisely what college you go to.
For those who can afford it, education can definitely be a luxury for people who enjoys learning and making friends. Education as an investment, however, is dubious more than ever.
Haha I went to a state university at $2,500 per semester. No loans needed. I outperformed everyone when I entered the workforce, no matter what school they went to. That’s when I realized the school doesn’t matter, it’s how driven the individual is.
@8:10 in the movie. Couple things that helps the High school grad even further. Lower income taxes Doesn't pay interest on loans While the median High school salary is lower, they will have 4-5 more "years experience" in their career which means they are likely not on the bottom end of the salary pool. Also, Median High school grad includes lots of 18-21 year olds in the mix to bring the median down. This artificially increases the median college grad. (In short, they should compare salaries of High school vs College grads in each age group)
Looking at all this math and statistics, I can only say one thing. I’m blessed. At 23 I got a promotion where the company paid for me to move and I only had a HS diploma. I now earn what a college grad would earn but if I work hard I will have an opportunity to make a decent 6 figure salary and the competition is almost non-existent because either no one wants to do what I do or they simply can’t learn what I do and they don’t want to take the time to learn. Glory to God. Because it wasn’t me.
@@wmpx34 The Economist did an analysis for the UK by subject. The results were highly dependant on the subject: for economics or mathematics, say, pretty well 100% of grads would come out on top. For those doing performing arts, the proportions were far lower.
It’s interesting how college advice ages quickly, this is one of the hardest majors to get a job from now. Everyone heard this advice for the past decade so CS enrollment doubled. Then there was a small tech downturn and the already more competitive entry level jobs dried up.
I think most beneficial thing is that you have opportunity to meet and befriend "right people". When you have connections, life can be much simpler. After you create your group you can basically drop out lol. Are the money and debt worth it to meet future Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Gates etc?
Super interesting. The fact the US loan system punts the debt onto your family/dependents is wild, is that true?! In the UK, student loan debt specifically is tied to the individual who took it out only, and is written off by age 65 - not a perfect system either but at least you're not lumbering your kids with unpaid student loan debt.
Depends on state inheritance laws, but I think in most places it's that when estates are divided creditors get paid first and in some cases they get everything. The Romans did what he said and they had debt slavery which definitely is not legal now
So it is up to you to ask yourself "what are the job prospects for someone who has this degree in 4 years?" Thats how colleges have always worked. Joe Biden is taking advantage of stupid people who don't ask that question to get votes
Didnt study more because there literally isnt anything I'm interested in. Now what? Went to work and started making some money. I'd imagine losing 10 years of compound growth for studying somethin you dont want to learn is not the best financial or sensible solution.
I did 4 years of degree in electrical engineering specialized towards AI/ML side with 100% scholarship, straight out of college, I earn now 170k dollars per year in a software L-2 position. My gpa is not even high 3.7/4 , so idk boyo, it worked well, like summers I did internships at labs which gave me about 5k pm, so it was a decent experience
I see two ways out student loans crisis: free market way and government way: 1) Abolish student loans completely and (not really free market) prohibit banks from giving loans toward college and university education. Less demand, closure of ridiculous majors and the price will come down (eventually). 2) Instead of giving student loans, establish federal scholarship, make a quota (about 40-50% of available spots). Students with great grades on SAT get FREE scholarship, no additional money required (don't want to get into books, accommodation and etc. Maybe offer a discount for students that get good grades on SAT, but failed to reach threshold for scholarship. Ideally, it should be a combination of both. You're smart and poor? - Free education. You're rich and stupid - possibly you can get a uni degree. You're stupid AND poor? - Fastfood always need additional workers.
I'm not sure what I find what irritating. The fact that I couldn't get a loan for a house I could have paid cash for while I could have taken on insurmountable debt for college or the fact that we waste 12 years of our lives in the US just so we need another 4 years of college education to get a high paying job.
One other thing you should account for besides lost wages and tuition is the compounding interest of your savings. If you don't go to college then work, save, and invest your earnings, you have extra time for it to compound. That makes the ROI of college even smaller.
I joined a union, got a degree during the apprenticeship for free and now make over $38 an hour and retirement and benefits on top. College isnt for everyone.
Managing debt is crucial, but overall it can be worth it. Start in community college and figure out what you want then transfer to a school that’s in the right place or community to give career connections after you graduate.
In Finland, if you don't have rich parents, you need a student loan earlier for secondary studies, i.e. for high school or vocational school. And you may need another student loan if you continue to higher education, i.e. university or university of applied sciences. This arrangement makes it possible for Finland to pay less student financial aid for 16-21-year-olds when their income is loan-based, and it saves taxpayers' money. The good thing about a Finnish student loan is that it is guaranteed by the state, so even if the parents have no credit information or regular income, the student has the opportunity to get it. The downside is that if the Finn fails to repay the debt, for example due to unemployment, the unpaid student debt will be taken into foreclosure and left to debt collection agencies.
$60k a year is so insane for all that debt. I work for a glass company. Started at the bottom raking and shoveling broken glass and 2 years later making $75k. I work next to 20 year old kids making $70k plus, with health insurance and a 401k package making them 11%. If you go into management they will pay for your business degree or whatever else they want. Maintenance guys get a full ride through industrial maintenance and becoming a licensed electrician. Then which they pay 6 figs, and have no debt. You don't have to take out loans for an in demand skill, if you have a brain and a little work ethic somebody will pay it for you or train you on the job.
This report just tells me people are lazy and will just give up. When you get your degree you're proving to your future employee that you can go through the bullshit and get the job done. It shows dedication.
This is crazy. First year in trucking earns about 60k, second year 80k and 3+ years anywhere from 90-130k depending on specialization, area and commodity. Do it for 5 years and you can afford to do whatever you want. Apprenticeship in a different industry? Yes. Any college degree? Yep. A starter home? Sure. I laugh at barely literate fools spending 200k on a Feminist Dance Therapy degree while looking down on blue collar workers and larping as Intelligentsia
I’m glad you covered that part where forgiving student debt wouldn’t solve any problems and it would put the rest of the country on the hook. The system is pretty broken but don’t screw over the majority of people who didn’t go to college just to help those that did.
4:35 ans that's a big reason for colleges failing to deliver and students for failing to get a good education. Everyone involved treats college like a combination of summer camp, social club, and 24/7 party spot where fratbois and coeds get drunk constantly. And then they leave school unprepared for life. Meanwhile thanks to open border policies, there are plenty of migrants who have literally been working since they're kids ready and hungry to take any job they can. Gringo kids in particular won't be able to compete. And my point here is, Americans should stop spoiling their kids.
Maybe you were spoiled but my college campus was not fancy or extravagant and it was still unaffordable dog. Not to mention how colleges tend to screw up finances of their own students. Tens to hundreds of thousands in debt for learning how to be a better contributing member of society is an oxymoron.
Most colleges aren’t fancy young adult Disneyland setups. A lot of working class kids go to community college or state college. Shit is not an everyday party like you think it is
@sama847 Sorry to burst your bubble, but most are. I mean, how do you explain for instance, the Spring Break culture? Or the hysteria around date rapes? Or the fact that even though the drinking age is 21, you see students well below that age getting drunk? Or as I witnessed living in the boderland, all the kids going over to Mexico to get hammered? And also, why can't these kids get jobs afterwards? Now maybe this doesn't apply to community colleges. But let's face it, the average community college doesn't have the budget to put fancy dormitories, stadiums, or rec centers that big 4 year colleges like say, Texas or Arizona can.
First, college is for providing academics a way to support themselves while continuing to devote themselves to their research. Second, technological advancement tends to marginalize unskilled labor, so some amount of "upskilling" is indeed necessary to be a _contributing_ member of society.
30+ years ago college and university degrees were coveted because people too the extra step to get a higher income. Now these degrees are commoditized since a lot more people have them.
If someone enrolls at a private school and majors in drama, he or she will be shit out of luck trying to find an employer when they graduate from college.
(18:43) I don’t think it’s fair to call 18 yr olds pursuing higher education as financially immature. I remember when I was 16 and I told my counselor that I was considering not going to college, he completely objected and looked at me like crazy. They breathe college education down your neck especially at my high school which was called a college preparatory. What they don’t preach is the other P word, predatory. The predatory college loans that they give to 18 yr olds who have been brainwashed to believe that any college education is a good investment. This is the problem in America.
Are the US News rankings really that big a deal if you're the first person I've heard mention or care about them in over a decade? No one I graduated high school with mentioned those rankings back when they were picking schools for college, they all went where they got accepted or wherever had the best program for their field, not which is nicest by some generic metrics
I imagine it depends on where you went to HS and what your parents, peers, and families are like. I went to a public HS that happened to be in college town. Many of the people I went to school with were quite concerned about where they would end up and our placements were far better than the local private school at least by numbers. Only a handful knew about places like Harvey Mudd or Cooper Union but everyone knew about Williams, Amherst, and Swathmore. (Everyone knew the usual suspects) Many of the people who aimed high have done well, some have done so-so, but a number of people who went elsewhere have done well with their lives. That said, it was said to read about some who never went anywhere in the obituaries before I turned 25.
As a teenager my mother told me that with a college degree I can be a head janitor instead of an assistant janitor,, I will hate her the rest of my life for saying that me and I never wanna see her ever again for just saying that to me.
I may have made a lot of mistakes in life. I may have had parents that made mistakes in my life. One thing that wasn't a mistake was my insistence that if I can't pay up-front, I can't afford it. That went with the territory of spending 9 years below the poverty line in the military. No FAFSA, no bullshit arbitrary conditions. Yeah, I haven't completed college (and that ship has sailed; it's IMPOSSIBLE now), but I think I did well for myself. (I had to make MAJOR sacrifices, like never having my own family, but that's another subject entirely.)
I dropped out of high school after 9th grade and never considered going to college. At 18, I moved from Ohio to Texas and got a job working in construction. At age 22 I discovered the stock market and set my mind on building a trading system to make money off it. After six years and about $30,000 lost, I had my first profitable year at age 28 and at 29 I retired from construction completely. Today I’m 31 years old and I’ll make about $120k from my trading business while I work from home with my wife and two kids. I’m ever so glad I didn’t cave and go to college like people pressured me to do back in the day. My stock market tuition losses cost less than half of what a college degree would’ve cost and I could work full time while doing it. Smart people do fine in America with or without a piece of paper.
Now do a chart with private college vs trade school with the compounding effects of investment gains included. It won't even be close. The average student would have a much higher net worth after 10 years if they skipped private college and did a trade.
6:47 "even if you die, your family or next of kin will be responsible for paying these loans" - is this anecdotal nonsense, or can the debt actually survive past the life of the individual?
It depends, if a relative cosigned the loan that person will be responsible to pay off the loan even if the borrower dies. If no one cosigns the loan then the family or next of kin is not responsible to pay off the loan.
I'm an Chinese student who immigrated to the US. The biggest problem I can clearly see with American students is: wasting money on unmarkable or low paying degrees cough*liberal arts*cough. I think this is a result being taught that you are "special", "follow your passion" and other PC but harmful bad advice. Education is an investment. Investment is about cost vs benefits, return on investment, ect. Whoever takes out a ton of loans on a degree that nobody wants or pays little, is just being foolish.
Completely agreed with this. And student loans shouldn’t be the same for every kind of degree. Getting loan for useless or ‘bad investment’ degrees should have higher interests similar to giving loans to high risk individuals. This would make people naturally think twice before going into things like gender study.
You’re ignoring the reality that if everyone got a STEM/Finance degree such an electrical or mechanical engineering, compsci or medical school degree there still wouldn’t be enough jobs available. You’re just shitting on kids who are honestly screwed no matter what they do
>I get no college degree - Work shitty minimum wage job >I get a non-stem college degree -Work shitty minimum wage job -$10,000+ in student loan debt as well >Everyone gets a stem degree -South Korean levels of competition for jobs, more than likely still work a shitty minimum wage job
Going to college or universities, only shows yo your potential employers that you had the balls and guts to wake up and be somewhere and finish an assignment for 4 years. And yur employers would see that as ( well maybe lets give this person a shot ) they did stick around somehwree else for 4 or 5 years.😂
The new American dream is to afford rent and food
Bout to be Objective survive here real soon.
Remember reach.
New American dream.
Is to leave America with the U.S dollar
In that case I'm living that dream now in the USA.
If you want your college fully paid for, Get a job at UPS, become a part time supervisor, which requires no college degree or no experience and they will pay fully pay for your college. No books, or whatever cost comes, they will cover it.
“Financially irresponsible 18-year-olds” is a bit disingenuous. The vast majority of student loans are co-signed by parents (as the 18-year-old usually lacks credit history). Now, those parents may be equally, if not more irresponsible than their kid, but the blame does not fall entirely (or even mostly) on the student. Parents are often the ones doing the majority of navigating through the labyrinth of financial aid packages from scholarships, loans, grants, work-study and other options.
I'd say that the blame mostly lies with the parents unless they're completely ignorant. It's the responsibility of the parents to guide their children and to at least try to prevent them from making stupid decisions. Teachers and guidance counselors can also be blamed sometimes. One thing I realized about high school years later is how there were a lot of kids who weren't being warned that the degree they want to get is worthless or their dream school is too expensive and will leave them financially crippled for the rest of their life. Most kids at 17-18 don't really know a whole lot about life and the real world, and their brains aren't even fully developed until they turn 25. To give you an example, I remember someone giving a presentation about different careers and their salaries. One of those jobs paid $30,000 per year, and the kids actually thought was a very good salary (this was back in 2015, so it wasn't that good). They had no clue about how much it really costs to live on their own because they never experienced paying bills as an independent adult. Imagine trusting someone like that to make a serious financial decision like taking out loans to pay for college. They probably wouldn't be that wise about it.
When I was 18 I also wanted to get a degree in international studies at an expensive private university but my uncle was caring enough to warn me that I would most likely be in debt for the rest of my life if I did that and also wouldn't be able to find a decent job. I'm really glad he told me that because I didn't know what the consequences of that decision were until he told me. When I was 18 I was totally clueless about what life is like in the real world and didn't even know what a credit score was.
Federal Student loans, except for the parent plus loan do not need a cosigner. The government guaranteed the loan. Private companies often don't ask for a cosigner since private student loans are very difficult to discharge in bankruptcy so the companies have less incentive to tighten their underwriting standards.
This is a thing I don't understand, why US even has this system, where education is this heavily commercialized. Same with healthcare.
Because it makes them money.
Unchecked capitalism
@@wmpx34 Pretty sure unchecked exploitation is corruption, capitalism is the word used often in place of corruption or of a failed system but rarely does it apply.
Capitalism, they checked.
Government run by oligarchy for a century+.
I went to community college, then local state school for comp Sci, because pops had cancer and money was stretched thin… worked my butt off for a software engineering internship…
Now 4 year at an Investment Bank as a software engineer making 6 figures. Path definitely could’ve been easier, but we each have different paths to our goals. Keep grinding.
This is truly fascinating
Smart plan. Smart school choices, good career pick that companies want at that time. Lots of young ppl do what feels right instead of looking at the landscape and studying what career would make sense. Most times you have a work job you can tolerate to ultimately live the life you want.
I think it is important to work hard, but I think it is even more important to work smart. You went to a community college to save money. You then further your education at a state school, which is much cheaper than a private university. You choose a degree path with high income potential. As someone with a similar career path excluding state school, I like to chuck it up to all hard work as well, but I think it has a lot more to deal with those intelligent decisions that were made. You take someone that chooses a degree in the arts, and you throw a private university on top of it with a private student loans. I don't care how hard that person works. As in the immortal words of tiger king, I'm never going to financially recover from this.
Sorry about your father. How's he doing these days?
@@travisbickle1455 thanks for asking. He has been in remission for years now and is doing well. Truly blessed
When only 10% (of population) had a degree (from any college) it meant something but today if you went to a mediocre college that 50% or more had went to (or better college) then it doesn’t matter much anymore.
Try getting my job without a degree. It does matter.
@@RealCapitalNotesDepends on degree.
Also depends on if the state demands the piece of paper even if irrelevant. For example, in most states now, they've actually essentially mandated a person get a Master's degree just to get a Certified Public Accountant license - even though most folks STILL pay another $2500 for a prep course before taking the exam! Eliminate the requirement, let folks do an old-school apprenticeship, and I guarantee they'd be better prepared for actually being a CPA.
Even your job doesn’t need a degree at first. Having a degree means you can get a better chance at promotion
@@joeisawesome540 a medical doctor degree aint only for promotion... not all jobs can be learned by doing failing and repeating until it works ...
I lived at home, worked 35 hrs a week and went to a state school. Started working in my field in junior year and graduated with no debt. Dorming and getting the “college experience” is the biggest scam. Most kids I know that went away to school didn’t even go to prestigious schools, they just went away just because.
Working (or interning) while in college is huge. I'm a hiring manager in data science, and I'll hire a philosophy major with relevant work experience right out of school, but I'm less likely to hire someone with a degree in our field but no real world experience.
You missed state technical colleges in your essay, a huge blind spot. Most careers of any value (nursing, trades, IT, applied arts like graphic design, and law clerk) you can get at a state technical college. It used to have a stigma attached to it, still does in some places, but you earn only slightly less than a college grad for a fraction of the tuition.
And in my personal experience the quality of education is as good or better because your instructors actually did the work in the real world.
Great point! If you ran a longterm comparison of something like becoming a veterinarian versus a vet tech (at a technical school), the payoff period of being a vet would be very lengthy.
I tried to convince my son to go to tech school but he refused. He wants the clout of the university label. I refused to sign on his student loans. He's on his own now, going to university.
@@nsff2001able I would not discount university programs; especially engineering schools or programs that emphasize applied skills.
One does have to be a lot more careful when shopping around for a university degree. Computer Science or Business Management degrees, for example, are usually worthless. And don't even get me started on game design degrees.
@@LesserAndrew If you compare the value of a BS in ComSci against an AS in CompSci you've got a more apples to apples comparison.
BS Starting Salary: Around $70K
AS Starting Salary: Around $65K but usually match BS after the two additional years of earnings. And your degree costs about 70% less.
Went to community college, then transferred to a public university to finish a life science degree. I did not have any scholarships or financial assistance. Got a job as a bench chemist at a pharma company, and this company then paid for my masters. I now make 6 figures and have never had any school debt or financial assistance.
Additionally, the cost of education in the US is directly related to the government guaranteeing student loans. If the government stopped doing this, the cost of tuition would drop virtually overnight.
As already exemplified by the "generational poverty" endemic in inner city communities, cutting off even more paths to upwards socioeconomic mobility would simply turn America into a _de_ _facto_ caste society. Instead, the government - rather than taking the welfare capitalism approach of subsidizing demand (through, e.g., student aid programs) - should take the state capitalism approach of supplementing supply (by, e.g., requiring educational institutions that accept federal funds [incl. student aid] to provide certain programs at an income- and/or wealth-driven cost to the student).
Yo bro can I get some advice
You just confirmed my own experience of getting a degree. When younger people ask me about it, I always give them two pieces of advice:
1) You should NOT try to get a degree if you weren't in the top third of your class in high school.
2) You only sign up for a STEM degree that has a high market value.
and signup for state college, not a private or out of state university
If you are smart enough to use a calculation based approach to see if colleges works for you, you are probably smart enough that college works for you
Wrong.
Depends on what you study, but I'm willing to grant that someone who thinks through the process is also considering the salary at the other end of the diploma.
@@commentinglife6175 yeah, college mostly works for someone who knows how to think with money
This is a really good observation
I doubt it since the math required is at the level of first year algebra, which isn't worth any money. That gives me an idea. The math of student loans, debt, investments, compounding interest, etc. should be covered in Algebra 1 then quickly reviewed repeatedly in Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry, Calculus, high school Economics, etc. It should be repeated because of its importance and just in case some kids didn't listen the first or second times.
edit. And go over the lesson again for kids who moved in from other school districts that didn't cover such an important lesson.
We can not have a logical conversation about this without breaking down the type and number of degrees the younger generations are getting into debt for. These points are too generalized.
Exactly. However, you also need to factor in the kind of student, the focus of the school (is it actually meant for educating students or a place where PhDs can focus on getting published as many large state schools in the US are), and the expectations in the classroom. It is far more complicated, but we can generalize that if your goal is to go to school to party and not learn and you don't have daddy's purse to pay off your loans, you are going to be in trouble.
If this were 10 years ago maybe. But we've reached a critical mass point where even graduate of the most disciplined graduates are beginning to struggle in the job market. Its weird and I know a lot of smart hard working people with more debt than I'll ever have as a drop out and our jobs pay THE SAME
Even 'good' degrees are over saturated
Agreed, degrees have vastly different pay scales, so a "successful" graduate who isn't underemployed will make vastly different amounts of money. And some degrees are worthless for almost anything but teaching the subject (Librarian is one of the worst historically, and what exactly are you going to do with a degree in stuff like Women's Studies?).
The majority of degrees are in stem and business. Not sociology or gender studies like how boomers try to claim.
Took 4 years for bachelors of medical science, graduated with a 4.0 GPA ( I also wasn't the smartest), tried applying to medical school, got rejected twice, and my degree means nothing for medical field.
Applied to hospitals but said my degree didn't matter they just want certificates or experience, but still the pay was low.
-best advice I could give in your last two semesters take something useful in life, like learn a semester how to code and learn a new language.
You're screwed if you do and you're screwed if you don't
This is democrat propaganda to get you to vote for Joe Biden. A computer science degree earns you figures. Thats all you have to do. Is pick a degree in a field that will earn you money. A degree in harry potter wont do shtt. Why don't you understand that?
There is two paths that are smart bets: post secondary or entrepreneur. You do trades/uni/diploma program and you get higher pay; you start buying and selling at 18 and you can make bank. Just going to get a job you can with a high school diploma? Let’s play that out. 18 to 23 they go from picker to fork lift operator, the. 23 to 27 they get supervisor, then maybe at 35 a warehouse manager job for like 80k (hr would pay 120k minimum if the degree checkbox was checked lol). Pretty good, no? Now lets say you get a business management degree and do warehouse jobs in the summers and then graduate to a warehouse manager job for 120k lmfao 13 years saved. But you got debt… lol
Went to college and became a teacher. My job security is great, my benefits are good, I have an employer match for retirement of 5%, (which increases with age). Everyone’s experience will vary (especially by state) but I don’t have regrets. But I also did community college.
I lucked out in that I was poor and couldn't afford college and all the teachers, counselors, and schools told me I wasn't good enough for college and couldn't handle the work. Went into programming and quickly made 100k+ with no college debt. Then I had work pay for my school and went from 0 to masters in 3.5 years (double enrolled taking max credits at both while working 40 and travelling 20 hours a week). Only go to college if you must have the physical resources. Chem, Bio, Med, etc need to have onsite interaction and residency placement so you are forced into paying for it. The rest can pretty much all be learned on your own. If you must go, find the cheapest way. Go to community college for your general eds and transfer. Most of the people I knew in their 20s going to college were working a job to pay for college and only taking out student loans for minimal tuition.
Clearly, you're a pretty capable person - not the kind to end up barely scraping by despite receiving a(n) (albeit, mediocre) college education. By and large, _those_ people appear to simply be doomed to a life of austerity these days.
European here. I remember when I was about to finish my law degree there was an academic fair where some US colleges came to sell a extra degree to us.
Oh boy... they wen on and on and on... we have a sports colliseum a fitness center an artificial beach... for the low low price of...
Some rich kids were genuinely interested for some academic flavoured holidays in the US. Us normies said that if we wanted to hang out a year at an artifcial beach there probably would be way cheaper ways to achieve THAT.
These prices seem insane to me. I live in Germany and I'm studying to get a bachelor's degree and my current tuition fee is roughly 350€(~380 USD) for each semester, which will amount to just over 3000 USD in total.
It's an obsolete system.
America has lower taxes and, consequently, less robust social programs. It's a "can't have one without the other" kind of situation.
I'm in STEM, one of the mistakes that videos like this make is it shows a salary and it, whether mistakenly or intentionally, equates an engineering degree w/ a guaranteed job. But what it doesn't show is the number of people who graduate w/ an aeronautical degree that work in that field. From personal observations, I'd estimate that maybe 10-15% of people in STEM actually work in their field of study. While many others are removed from the industry due to economic forces.
If you want to determine if going to college is actually worth it or not, there’s a video that goes over the steps involved with picking a career/degree that actually provides job prospects after college
Search “gamification of life they should have taught this in school”
I tried linking it before but my comment didn’t go through
For some reason the vid doesn’t show up when you search it on the bar, but if you search the channel “gamification of life” you can find it in his recent videos
When I was 15. I had a old lady who was my neighbor gave me financial advice. I remembered her telling me to never ever take a loan unless I know I can pay it back right away or before the term. Her advice saved me sooo much over the years. She was the real reason why I never took out student loans or got a car note as well. When I was in college I learned that it wasn’t for me and I didn’t like seeing how this degree wasn’t gonna promise me anything but I am paying money out for something that wasn’t gonna keep its promise
One of the biggest issues with colleges that we are forcing kids to get degrees they honestly could care less about because culturally we think going to college is a key to success. I think it's very unfair to compare someone who went to school and got a degree in engineering making six figures compared to someone who went to school for political science to get a bachelor's and never using it .
This wasnt touched on in the video, but in terms of interesting student loans, here in the UK, interest on student loans begin acuring from THE DAY you take out the student loan, not when you finish your degree. So your balance will already be higher than what you borrowed before you're even done with uni.
Choose your major....The only problem is whenever the major is earning, the test-score benchmark goes up.
High schools career counselors should show this video to high schoolers thinking about college.
It's funny I used to argue with my high school counselor who I still know to this day and go hiking with It took 15 years for me to prove the point and now she finally understands it. I did go to college for a year and then I dropped out and she thought I threw my life away I said you just wait you'll see. Now I make at least twice what she ever made in one year in her life and I don't have any college debt and I have many years more on the job experience. Especially now with all the information for free online It's more and more the case that formal very expensive college doesn't make sense for many people.
Well, high school career counselors are usually the least qualified to give any advice to students. Usually liberal arts degree holders who couldn't find jobs elsewhere and have no idea what the real job market demand looks like.
our tax money should NOT pay for someone's financial mistakes. The student wanted to be cool and go to college, let them reap what they sow.
I am a product of the CUNY System (City University of NY). And I have been teaching at the NYC DOE for 25 years. Going to an in-school public university is worth the money.
Me too! Hunter College in the house. Shouts to all my CUNY people 🙏🏾
I immediately dropped out after my scholarship stopped paying when I got my 2 year degree .
I make 40k a year in the trades now.
Not good but not terrible.
I wasn’t going for a medical or stem major anyway so I ended up poor regardless 😂
Those working in trade tend to have poor health, especially after their 50s
@@somethingelse9228 meh, worth the risk. That's why us minorities do it
Keep going at it mate. I make 400k a year now as a tradesman. It will only go up from here.
You ain't poor
@@somethingelse9228only if you're a liar
I don’t understand that “up to $160,000.00” for college degree. The basic private college without any scholarships cost around $70k-$80k per year right now. So it’s $320k average cost. Ok, most people get some sort of scholarships so cost could be around $40-$50k, so around $200k for 4-year degree, but it’s not the max.
He’s looking only at base tuition, not the full cost. When you add on dorms, food, books, class fees, transportation, tuition these days is only about 50-60 percent of the overall cost. Which makes your figure far more accurate. And it’s those extra costs that drive up loan totals. A lot of financial aid, outside of loans, only covers tuition costs, not all the adjacent costs. I knew plenty of people who had all or part their tuition covered by scholarships but took out loans to cover living expenses (dorm, meal plans etc).
@@thorin01 Great points. The true "cost of college" is all of those things minus the cost that an average 18 year old worker would pay for housing and food (which is generally much less than colleges charge for room and board).
Most people do not get scholarships. You’re misinformed. And no minorities don’t get college for free either. People need to stop lying.
Some people go to universities for four years not because it's a path to a higher paying job but because it's more fun than having a job. Not everyone wants to start working as soon as possible to maximize their lifetime earning potential. Some people want to enjoy their lives, including, or especially, their time at university. Life is about more than collecting dollars while avoiding spending them.
College teachers: we know how college keeps us poor... Low teaching salaries
Good video, but I think one piece that's missing from this analysis is what field is their degree in? I would suggest that graduates with a STEM degree are much more likely to have high earnings and pay off their loans than those that got degrees in something essentially useless. I know people that got 4-year degrees in English and now can't find a job outside of Starbucks, and are unable to pay back their loans... I would venture to guess that the majority of students unable to pay back their loans, got their degree in something that is in extremely low demand from the job market.
You need to remove S and M from STEM. Career perspectives in academic sciences (biology, chemistry, physics, math are rather mediocre. One would need to spend 5-7 years in a graduate school making 25-35k per year. Then, almost same amount of time as a postdoctorial fellow making 45-65k. All of these positions are short term contracts without benefits.
If lucky you, you'll get your first Associate Prof position making 6 digits. But it will likely a fixed short term contract too.
Therefore, US labs are stuffed mostly by researchers from developing countries.
In France we pay nothing. The state is paying. A college student costs roughly €12,000 per year of taxpayer money.
A total cost of $50,000 for a 4 years curriculum doesn't buggle me.
I consider myself extremely lucky. Graduated back 1992, Arizona State University. Back then tuition was only $750/semester, unlimited classes. And then we had this thing called “jobs.” I managed to pay it off with part time pizza delivery and weekend computer programming.
Personally, I cannot fathom how the younger generation makes it today.
Pro Tip: Go to a in-state, public university and major in something that is actually useful (you can tell if it's useful by the salary data for that degree track). You're unlikely to get into major financial issues unless you go to an out of state private school and major in something society doesn't value.
I did 5 years of college, earning a masters degree, and my standard of living is better than 95+% of people in my state. Without college it wouldn't have happened. It's that simple.
Not just that, it has to be a topic you'd learn about on your own time anyway, or else you'll be no good at it
Yeah I think the key is just go to a state school or get a full scholarship. I went to a no-name undergrad on a full ride and now I’m getting my MBA from a T50 school with some name recognition. No debt and my MBA is super affordable given the prestige of the university. I haven’t applied any of what I learned in college to the work I do now but there’s no way my company would hire someone without a bachelors degree.
Or we should have a system where college is affordable for anyone willing to put the work in and we have a job market where even if you didn't go to college or dropped out, you can still have a car, house and family. Not disagreeing just adding that dream world scenario
95%? Really? Are you counting your net worth after debt? A McDonald's worker making 25k is worth more than most grads for the first 10 years at least. Unless mommy and daddy paid for it. In which case nepo babies need not comment.
why not live at home with your parents too if all you're after is the cheapest path to a payday? alternative pro tip: going to a university can be a lot of fun, in addition to putting you on a career path. things like terms abroad change lives, even if they aren't the cheapest way to a degree.
College is fine if you’re a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. otherwise just go to trade school or community. People that go to party schools and major in polisci, psychology, women’s studies, criminal justice, etc. with big loans will never make sense to me
I got my BA in August of 1986, no debt. I went in state to one of the cheapest public colleges in Texas and stayed with relatives.
College is still worth it, even at inflated prices, for _women_ who make up the majority of people attending college now.
College graduates live longer than high school graduates and married couples with degrees tend to have more successful marriages.
There are other nit-picking advantages to having a degree. When I worked as an insurance agent (a debacle, alas) college graduates(bachelors degrees) could get their certifications a couple of years sooner than people without one.
Having said the foregoing, I would tell a lot of young people to acquire a skill set or two _before_ going to get a BA, you have to make enough money to live a halfway decent life.
It's not university that is the problem. Its the unfounded belief/con/scam that says firstly a degree guarantees a successful future, and that manual skills are useless.
There may be more students but lots of degrees lead to dead ends and have no relevance in the real world. So it should come as no surprise that many students can find no jobs.
The debt isn't necessarily an issue if you are becoming a doctor or lawyer. But if you are doing political science the career choices are probably smaller and low paying.
Getting a college degree isn't the problem. Getting the wrong college degree is the problem.
Also you guys briefly touched on why employers look for college degrees. It is the easiest way to gate some basic dedication/determination/intelligence limits from the candidate pool.
This x100, not all degrees are the same
It's sad that college is worth very little nowdays unless you plan on going deep into grad school or really value college experience (practically almost all undergraduate and below lvl can be taught online nowdays in terms of academic) but you have to spend a lot of money (even if you get scholarship or is from nation with cheap tuition still it costs quite a bit) and 4 years of your life to get glorified job certificate that'll gatekeep you if you don't have it.
Very few countries in the world have this kind of set up. Only the US and UK have such a heavy debt load for students.
I didn’t have the grades for college. I used to feel bad about it but seeing my generation struggle with debt I’m glad I couldn’t get in
I went to technical college followed by the oilfields. Paid my loans off in like 6 months. Made 144k my first year out. Still employed in my field.
Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy
The financial institutions lobbied for this. The US is quite unique in this
For some, this has turned into a form of identured labour as borrowers spend their entire working life burdened with student loans
Honestly we should allow cc debt to be discharged during bankruptcy, we will quickly so a lot of tightening up in the industry.
If they couldn’t sucker 18 years to lifelong debt, they wouldn’t be giving out these loans.
I went to state school, left with $17k debt which was fine. Less than the cost of a car and the interest was low. Paid off in 2 years. This is all because I got scholarships, had a job and was a resident assistant. Even spent a semester commuting from home.
My sister did the name and graduated with $20k.
The average at my college was $25k.
No one needs to be forking over $200k for undergrad.
Now I understand why US colleges accept anyone who's not smart and use inclusivity as an excuse. More debt the better 😂
I don't know what you mean by inclusivity and not smart. The only college grads I know who got accepted into higher education had the gpa and performance to back it up. But believe whatever you want
and why so many foreign nationals send their kids to school in the US??? Try harder skippy
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 sorry i meant being inclusive is not the same as accepting anyone who are not qualified. It's like a bank accepting borrowers with bad credit just because the bank wants everyone to have debt, but that's not how it works.
Ever since the university system was created, people would ask themselves, "what kind of opportunities will I have with this degree in 4 years, and will it be worth it?" Well, Joe Biden is taking advantage of stupid people that don't ask that question, and now WSJ is trying to help get Joe Biden elected by taking advantage of stupid people. This video is propaganda.
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 By claiming everything is racist, etc., colleges accepted students who had no business being in college. These kids got loans that they should never have taken out. The reality is that you need to be at a certain level to start college and given the state of public education, the majority of the kids are not there. The solution from colleges was to claim racism and let the bad stock in, so they can get their pay day. It's a business after all.
They made college a daycare center. No matter they expect that at their jobs
Wallstreet Millennial crushes this early morning spot. Love this.
Fun statistics to know:
35% of all jobs today REQUIRE a college degree. Most of those jobs are also the highest paying jobs in the country.
80% of the top 10% of the wealthiest people have attended college.
If you live in poverty today, you have an 80% of getting out of poverty if you attend college.
Student loan debt has more to do with lack of planning and lack of understanding of personal finances.
Which most people are not taught.
Drop out of college with nothing to show for? Knowledge is power. Reading something valuable for just one hour increases your knowledge, no matter where that something is from. Learn, people, learn! Oh. Don’t forget to learn about value for money!
The golden age of "knowledge is power" could soon be ending, thanks to AI.
是了吗？那我跟这小中文能做什么现在？🤦
My son graduated with a bachelor and masters with no debt. He did this by working two part time jobs for the duration. He graduated with honors. Don’t believe the hype. It takes work and dedication.
I worked full time at a greenhouse during college and graduated with two degrees (Economics and Finance) and an Engineering minor and zero debt. Most of the people complaining about student loan debt spent their time getting drunk/high and either dropped out or graduated with worthless Liberal Arts degrees. They essentially took expensive multi-year vacations from adulthood with zero plan for the future.
It takes a number of other things too like a support system, usually a car or great public transportation, a stable goal etc. Kudos to your son but he had an amount of luck as well that everyone doesn't have
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 it’s those types of excuses that enable the problem.
Universities need to cut costs. I've heard that they spend too much money on risk management - trying to avoid getting sued.
except for careers like doctors, it seems to me almost anything can be learned better on line at home these days, certainly computer science and most tech stuff
I am so grateful that my senior year in HS back in 1981, was one of the last years where University was free here in Australia. I remember students complaining about the $100 lab fee that we had to pay for this one Biology unit.
Basically, if you don't go for a STEM field, or a limited number of other careers that require college, and are 100% committed to graduating, you are screwed. As a note, computer science does not require a college degree. Many programmers never went to college, they just enjoy programming, and would do it anyway, so the tend to make excellent programmers. College tends to get you indoctrinated in liberal ideology, so best to avoid it if you can, or choose wisely what college you go to.
Night/Weekend school at a local Community College changed my life. I got a great price, learned a ton, and double my income since graduation.
For those who can afford it, education can definitely be a luxury for people who enjoys learning and making friends. Education as an investment, however, is dubious more than ever.
Haha I went to a state university at $2,500 per semester. No loans needed. I outperformed everyone when I entered the workforce, no matter what school they went to. That’s when I realized the school doesn’t matter, it’s how driven the individual is.
@8:10 in the movie.
Couple things that helps the High school grad even further.
Lower income taxes
Doesn't pay interest on loans
While the median High school salary is lower, they will have 4-5 more "years experience" in their career which means they are likely not on the bottom end of the salary pool.
Also, Median High school grad includes lots of 18-21 year olds in the mix to bring the median down. This artificially increases the median college grad.
(In short, they should compare salaries of High school vs College grads in each age group)
Looking at all this math and statistics, I can only say one thing.
I’m blessed.
At 23 I got a promotion where the company paid for me to move and I only had a HS diploma.
I now earn what a college grad would earn but if I work hard I will have an opportunity to make a decent 6 figure salary and the competition is almost non-existent because either no one wants to do what I do or they simply can’t learn what I do and they don’t want to take the time to learn.
Glory to God. Because it wasn’t me.
It's ok if you take something which is in demand, Computer Science, which I took, is in demand, feminist dance study is not
Good point. Would be interesting to see a breakdown by degree type.
Most CS majors are struggling to find a job right now btw
AI is a heartbeat away from replacing most CS professions. Best of luck to you.
@@wmpx34 The Economist did an analysis for the UK by subject.
The results were highly dependant on the subject: for economics or mathematics, say, pretty well 100% of grads would come out on top. For those doing performing arts, the proportions were far lower.
It’s interesting how college advice ages quickly, this is one of the hardest majors to get a job from now. Everyone heard this advice for the past decade so CS enrollment doubled. Then there was a small tech downturn and the already more competitive entry level jobs dried up.
Go to public university or community college. If you choose to go to a fancy private school, that's your decision
I think most beneficial thing is that you have opportunity to meet and befriend "right people". When you have connections, life can be much simpler. After you create your group you can basically drop out lol. Are the money and debt worth it to meet future Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, Gates etc?
It’s about the degree you get
Super interesting. The fact the US loan system punts the debt onto your family/dependents is wild, is that true?! In the UK, student loan debt specifically is tied to the individual who took it out only, and is written off by age 65 - not a perfect system either but at least you're not lumbering your kids with unpaid student loan debt.
Depends on state inheritance laws, but I think in most places it's that when estates are divided creditors get paid first and in some cases they get everything. The Romans did what he said and they had debt slavery which definitely is not legal now
This only happens if the parents cosigned the loans. Otherwise she was just wrong.
because most college degrees are pyramid scheme🤣
Some, not most. Becoming a professor is a pyramid scheme
Idiot statement
So it is up to you to ask yourself "what are the job prospects for someone who has this degree in 4 years?" Thats how colleges have always worked. Joe Biden is taking advantage of stupid people who don't ask that question to get votes
Didnt study more because there literally isnt anything I'm interested in. Now what? Went to work and started making some money. I'd imagine losing 10 years of compound growth for studying somethin you dont want to learn is not the best financial or sensible solution.
I did 4 years of degree in electrical engineering specialized towards AI/ML side with 100% scholarship, straight out of college, I earn now 170k dollars per year in a software L-2 position. My gpa is not even high 3.7/4 , so idk boyo, it worked well, like summers I did internships at labs which gave me about 5k pm, so it was a decent experience
Congratulations. You're working to make college degrees worthless.
Love your videos, I've learnt alot from you, love from Mumbai
I see two ways out student loans crisis: free market way and government way:
1) Abolish student loans completely and (not really free market) prohibit banks from giving loans toward college and university education. Less demand, closure of ridiculous majors and the price will come down (eventually).
2) Instead of giving student loans, establish federal scholarship, make a quota (about 40-50% of available spots). Students with great grades on SAT get FREE scholarship, no additional money required (don't want to get into books, accommodation and etc. Maybe offer a discount for students that get good grades on SAT, but failed to reach threshold for scholarship.
Ideally, it should be a combination of both. You're smart and poor? - Free education. You're rich and stupid - possibly you can get a uni degree. You're stupid AND poor? - Fastfood always need additional workers.
I'm not sure what I find what irritating. The fact that I couldn't get a loan for a house I could have paid cash for while I could have taken on insurmountable debt for college or the fact that we waste 12 years of our lives in the US just so we need another 4 years of college education to get a high paying job.
One other thing you should account for besides lost wages and tuition is the compounding interest of your savings. If you don't go to college then work, save, and invest your earnings, you have extra time for it to compound. That makes the ROI of college even smaller.
I joined a union, got a degree during the apprenticeship for free and now make over $38 an hour and retirement and benefits on top. College isnt for everyone.
Managing debt is crucial, but overall it can be worth it. Start in community college and figure out what you want then transfer to a school that’s in the right place or community to give career connections after you graduate.
In Finland, if you don't have rich parents, you need a student loan earlier for secondary studies, i.e. for high school or vocational school. And you may need another student loan if you continue to higher education, i.e. university or university of applied sciences. This arrangement makes it possible for Finland to pay less student financial aid for 16-21-year-olds when their income is loan-based, and it saves taxpayers' money. The good thing about a Finnish student loan is that it is guaranteed by the state, so even if the parents have no credit information or regular income, the student has the opportunity to get it. The downside is that if the Finn fails to repay the debt, for example due to unemployment, the unpaid student debt will be taken into foreclosure and left to debt collection agencies.
$60k a year is so insane for all that debt. I work for a glass company. Started at the bottom raking and shoveling broken glass and 2 years later making $75k. I work next to 20 year old kids making $70k plus, with health insurance and a 401k package making them 11%. If you go into management they will pay for your business degree or whatever else they want. Maintenance guys get a full ride through industrial maintenance and becoming a licensed electrician. Then which they pay 6 figs, and have no debt. You don't have to take out loans for an in demand skill, if you have a brain and a little work ethic somebody will pay it for you or train you on the job.
Is the underemployment rate consistent across degrees?
This report just tells me people are lazy and will just give up. When you get your degree you're proving to your future employee that you can go through the bullshit and get the job done. It shows dedication.
Sly said that exact thing on Tulsa King
This is crazy. First year in trucking earns about 60k, second year 80k and 3+ years anywhere from 90-130k depending on specialization, area and commodity.
Do it for 5 years and you can afford to do whatever you want. Apprenticeship in a different industry? Yes. Any college degree? Yep. A starter home? Sure.
I laugh at barely literate fools spending 200k on a Feminist Dance Therapy degree while looking down on blue collar workers and larping as Intelligentsia
Part of the pay is compensation for having to be an absentee parent just to put food on the table and the marital strife that comes with that. 🤦
I’m glad you covered that part where forgiving student debt wouldn’t solve any problems and it would put the rest of the country on the hook. The system is pretty broken but don’t screw over the majority of people who didn’t go to college just to help those that did.
4:35 ans that's a big reason for colleges failing to deliver and students for failing to get a good education. Everyone involved treats college like a combination of summer camp, social club, and 24/7 party spot where fratbois and coeds get drunk constantly. And then they leave school unprepared for life.
Meanwhile thanks to open border policies, there are plenty of migrants who have literally been working since they're kids ready and hungry to take any job they can. Gringo kids in particular won't be able to compete.
And my point here is, Americans should stop spoiling their kids.
Spot on 👍
Maybe you were spoiled but my college campus was not fancy or extravagant and it was still unaffordable dog. Not to mention how colleges tend to screw up finances of their own students. Tens to hundreds of thousands in debt for learning how to be a better contributing member of society is an oxymoron.
Most colleges aren’t fancy young adult Disneyland setups. A lot of working class kids go to community college or state college. Shit is not an everyday party like you think it is
@sama847 Sorry to burst your bubble, but most are. I mean, how do you explain for instance, the Spring Break culture? Or the hysteria around date rapes? Or the fact that even though the drinking age is 21, you see students well below that age getting drunk? Or as I witnessed living in the boderland, all the kids going over to Mexico to get hammered?
And also, why can't these kids get jobs afterwards?
Now maybe this doesn't apply to community colleges. But let's face it, the average community college doesn't have the budget to put fancy dormitories, stadiums, or rec centers that big 4 year colleges like say, Texas or Arizona can.
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 yeah no. I wasn't spoiled
Going with a plan and purpose is good. Going for a "degree is bad".
The damage Israel project has done can never be comprehended.
It's a god in its own right by now
College is for enlightenment, otherwise get to work.
First, college is for providing academics a way to support themselves while continuing to devote themselves to their research. Second, technological advancement tends to marginalize unskilled labor, so some amount of "upskilling" is indeed necessary to be a _contributing_ member of society.
30+ years ago college and university degrees were coveted because people too the extra step to get a higher income. Now these degrees are commoditized since a lot more people have them.
If someone enrolls at a private school and majors in drama, he or she will be shit out of luck trying to find an employer when they graduate from college.
(18:43) I don’t think it’s fair to call 18 yr olds pursuing higher education as financially immature. I remember when I was 16 and I told my counselor that I was considering not going to college, he completely objected and looked at me like crazy. They breathe college education down your neck especially at my high school which was called a college preparatory. What they don’t preach is the other P word, predatory. The predatory college loans that they give to 18 yr olds who have been brainwashed to believe that any college education is a good investment. This is the problem in America.
Are the US News rankings really that big a deal if you're the first person I've heard mention or care about them in over a decade?
No one I graduated high school with mentioned those rankings back when they were picking schools for college, they all went where they got accepted or wherever had the best program for their field, not which is nicest by some generic metrics
I imagine it depends on where you went to HS and what your parents, peers, and families are like. I went to a public HS that happened to be in college town. Many of the people I went to school with were quite concerned about where they would end up and our placements were far better than the local private school at least by numbers.
Only a handful knew about places like Harvey Mudd or Cooper Union but everyone knew about Williams, Amherst, and Swathmore. (Everyone knew the usual suspects) Many of the people who aimed high have done well, some have done so-so, but a number of people who went elsewhere have done well with their lives. That said, it was said to read about some who never went anywhere in the obituaries before I turned 25.
GI bill saved me this headache and I actually went into a reasonable field (accounting)
As a teenager my mother told me that with a college degree I can be a head janitor instead of an assistant janitor,, I will hate her the rest of my life for saying that me and I never wanna see her ever again for just saying that to me.
Bruh your mom was right.
Go watch Good Will Hunting. You might be a mathematical savant.
I may have made a lot of mistakes in life. I may have had parents that made mistakes in my life. One thing that wasn't a mistake was my insistence that if I can't pay up-front, I can't afford it. That went with the territory of spending 9 years below the poverty line in the military. No FAFSA, no bullshit arbitrary conditions. Yeah, I haven't completed college (and that ship has sailed; it's IMPOSSIBLE now), but I think I did well for myself. (I had to make MAJOR sacrifices, like never having my own family, but that's another subject entirely.)
Please do a video on the economic benefits of college sports.
Close.
That is not what keeps you poor, but you are getting close.
I dropped out of high school after 9th grade and never considered going to college. At 18, I moved from Ohio to Texas and got a job working in construction. At age 22 I discovered the stock market and set my mind on building a trading system to make money off it. After six years and about $30,000 lost, I had my first profitable year at age 28 and at 29 I retired from construction completely. Today I’m 31 years old and I’ll make about $120k from my trading business while I work from home with my wife and two kids. I’m ever so glad I didn’t cave and go to college like people pressured me to do back in the day. My stock market tuition losses cost less than half of what a college degree would’ve cost and I could work full time while doing it. Smart people do fine in America with or without a piece of paper.
Now do a chart with private college vs trade school with the compounding effects of investment gains included. It won't even be close. The average student would have a much higher net worth after 10 years if they skipped private college and did a trade.
6:47 "even if you die, your family or next of kin will be responsible for paying these loans" - is this anecdotal nonsense, or can the debt actually survive past the life of the individual?
It depends, if a relative cosigned the loan that person will be responsible to pay off the loan even if the borrower dies. If no one cosigns the loan then the family or next of kin is not responsible to pay off the loan.
I'm an Chinese student who immigrated to the US. The biggest problem I can clearly see with American students is: wasting money on unmarkable or low paying degrees cough*liberal arts*cough. I think this is a result being taught that you are "special", "follow your passion" and other PC but harmful bad advice. Education is an investment. Investment is about cost vs benefits, return on investment, ect. Whoever takes out a ton of loans on a degree that nobody wants or pays little, is just being foolish.
Completely agreed with this. And student loans shouldn’t be the same for every kind of degree. Getting loan for useless or ‘bad investment’ degrees should have higher interests similar to giving loans to high risk individuals. This would make people naturally think twice before going into things like gender study.
You’re ignoring the reality that if everyone got a STEM/Finance degree such an electrical or mechanical engineering, compsci or medical school degree there still wouldn’t be enough jobs available. You’re just shitting on kids who are honestly screwed no matter what they do
>I get no college degree
- Work shitty minimum wage job
>I get a non-stem college degree
-Work shitty minimum wage job
-$10,000+ in student loan debt as well
>Everyone gets a stem degree
-South Korean levels of competition for jobs, more than likely still work a shitty minimum wage job
@@sama847the fact is STEM degrees have only HALF the unemployment rate AND make more money. You can't argue with the facts.
Montana is MSU over the university of Montana. Bobcats over Griz 1000000%
College for non-regulated jobs (e.g. brain surgeon) is generally an expensive vacation that makes you unemployable
Going to college or universities, only shows yo your potential employers that you had the balls and guts to wake up and be somewhere and finish an assignment for 4 years. And yur employers would see that as ( well maybe lets give this person a shot ) they did stick around somehwree else for 4 or 5 years.😂